Jessa, Ben and Their Brood: Making a (Diaper) Mountain out of a Mold House

[Lemur]

I witnessed some wild things when I was a paramedic, one of the most frequent was when people denied they had given treatment especially to family members. I remember a cardiac arrest where the family had obviously done cpr as evidenced by the cracked ribs on their elderly momma and they still denied their actions, the lady lived.

 

"Grandma, did you flay your own chest again this morning?"

 

I'm curious as to what the legal ramifications of NOT calling 9-11 are in Arkansas (if any).  Also, and this may have been covered up-thread, but do these people have to carry any sort of malpractice insurance?  

[leighroda]

I thought Doulas were more like birth coaches. Can they be held liable for anything that goes wrong?

I think the only way they could be held liable is if the were perpetrating they were a midwife, I have no idea what the case is in this situation though.

I'm not really sure why everyone is surprised there may not have been a licensed professional at the birth, most of the people there have watched births done by professionals, so in turn that qualifies that they have "studied" midwifery, and fully prepared to handle a birth on their own, and for God's sake Michelle was there, I don't know if you have heard, Michelle has had a couple kids... She's really humble about it though so don't ask her, she hates drawing attention to herself.

Depending on the situation, in my experience a medical professional would tend to the patient and have someone else call 911, it's easier for them to tend to the patient and communicate with whoever to give info to 911, vs talking to 911 and trying to communicate to someone else how to tend to the patient. But every situation is different so it's really hard to say who "should" call 911. Like I said before, Michelle has been through a birth or 2, so I can imagine being ok with her calling 911, it's actually the one thing in her wheelhouse (well that and Jim Bob... Ba dum dum).

[BitterApple]

When I took Sex Ed in junior high, they showed us a video of a baby being born. Does that mean I'm a qualified midwife too? Maybe I should move to Arkansas and hang my shingle. From what I'm reading, the lay midwives practicing there don't have much more in the way of training.

[Quilt Fairy]

I can understand wanting a home birth if you believe strongly in it (or have been persuaded to believe in it), but for cryin' out loud, why wouldn't you want an actual professional/certified/licensed midwife there? Not just your mom, or your MIL, and not someone who's lost her license.  Are legitimate midwives that hard to find in NWA? Or is it that TLC is filming the birth and no one else wants to be on camera?

[BitterApple]

Are legitimate midwives that hard to find in NWA? Or is it that TLC is filming the birth and no one else wants to be on camera?

The legitimate midwives are probably smart enough to not take a Duggar on as a patient.

My guess is Jessa either had no midwife in attendance or the midwife got the hell out of Dodge before the EMT's arrived and was conveniently left out of the People article.

[barbedwire]

Jinger?  Did she want to be there or was she told to be there?  So that left Joy at home to be in charge of all of the howlers.  We know JimBoob didn't help but I hope maybe his mom did.

[kokapetl]

I am sitting at my hair stylist's with the People magazine. It says this: "Jessa assembled s team of midwives - her mother, mother-in-law Guinn, 41, and sisters Jana, 25, and Jinger, 22 - to assist during labor."

That punctuation marks it clear to me that there was no one else on the "team."

So Jana, the meek "doula" who only did the training because Jill needed an accountabilibuddy, and didn't actually complete the training anyway, was the most "qualified" person there? And we're expected to believe that Jessa would've actually chosen Jana, as though she has some respect for her? You're a lying liar Jessa, and lies make baby Jesus cry.

[Churchhoney]

I am sitting at my hair stylist's with the People magazine. It says this: "Jessa assembled s team of midwives - her mother, mother-in-law Guinn, 41, and sisters Jana, 25, and Jinger, 22 - to assist during labor."

That punctuation marks it clear to me that there was no one else on the "team."

 

And People's "reporters" and editors solve the conundrum of just how much and what kind of midwifery education should qualify a person to hold that title and perform that office: Absolutely no education or experience of any kind. Just hail some passersby. 

 

I can imagine a situation in which I got stuck trying to assist in a birth because bad weather or a remote location kept competent help from arriving. But I sure wouldn't want to be identified in the press as a "midwife" if I did.  A fair number of cabdrivers and other innocents trapped in such situations probably don't want to be identified as "midwives" either.

 

Why isn't it -- "Jessa assembled a team of relatives -- her mother, mother-in-law Guinn, 41, and sisters Jana, 25, and Jinger, 22 - to assist during labor"?  Who supplied the term "midwives" here? Jessa? Michelle? The idiots at People?

[JenCarroll]

Jim Bob is a builder. Josh is a graphic design artist. Jana is a concert pianist. Jill is a medical professional. Josie plays the piano. Aaaand Michelle, Jana and Jinger are all midwives.

:-)

[Marigold]

I feel like it's cocky to ASSUME nothing will go wrong at a birth.

No snark here: After they lost Jubilee, They almost lost Josie AND michelle in a high risk emergency C-section.

Didn't they get scared? Just watching the episodes scared me!

[Mollie]

So Jana, the meek "doula" who only did the training because Jill needed an accountabilibuddy, and didn't actually complete the training anyway, was the most "qualified" person there? And we're expected to believe that Jessa would've actually chosen Jana, as though she has some respect for her? You're a lying liar Jessa, and lies make baby Jesus cry.

Oh, but you're forgetting about sister Jill on Skype.  LOL

[JoanArc]

I feel like it's cocky to ASSUME nothing will go wrong at a birth.

No snark here: After they lost Jubilee, They almost lost Josie AND michelle in a high risk emergency C-section.

Didn't they get scared? Just watching the episodes scared me!

God just did that to give them better ratings.

[Churchhoney]

Oh, but you're forgetting about sister Jill on Skype.  LOL

 

Wonder why she wasn't mentioned?

[Marigold]

Jill is completely out of the discussion because of her fancy license and all. Can't risk loosing that!

And does Skype count?

[kokapetl]

I feel like it's cocky to ASSUME nothing will go wrong at a birth.

No snark here: After they lost Jubilee, They almost lost Josie AND michelle in a high risk emergency C-section.

Didn't they get scared? Just watching the episodes scared me!

I honestly think Michelle's memory of most of her childbirthing was she would go in to hospital, get twilight sedation, and the next thing she knew she was in a wheelchair, going out to the car, holding the latest baby. Breakthroughs in medical science, similar to the ones that make her daily life possible through the invention of benzos, made it possible for her to carry 19 babies to term and deliver them, with minimal stress and next to no memory of the labors.

She really couldn't contribute much to the discussion of the birthing arrangements for her daughters.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Kokapetl

[Marigold]

Aren't the girls scared? Jill and Jessa must clearly remember Michelle's high risk c-section.

And Michelle even had her babies in a hospital.

I guess they figure it won't happen to them?

From what I see, homebirth is the trendy new Fundy thing to do.

A few years back it was adopting African orphans (not that it is bad to do that but notice how that trend died).

Denim jumpers are out and hot modest is in.

Homebirth is trendy for them...i think it is the culmination of the "we trust God for our family size AND we trust God to get the baby here safely without a doctor"

[BitterApple]

Jill is completely out of the discussion because of her fancy license and all. Can't risk loosing that!

And does Skype count?

I'm still waiting to see some documentation on that one. I checked on the State's website and Jill isn't listed as a licensed midwife. Mrs. Query is on there, though.

I hate to admit this, but I'm looking forward to the specials just to see how TLC was able to selectively edit this latest disaster.

[FakeJoshDuggar]

Homebirth is trendy for them...i think it is the culmination of the "we trust God for our family size AND we trust God to get the baby here safely without a doctor"

Until they need actual, trained medical professionals to save them from themselves. If Jill and Jessa had truly "trusted God" then they'd both be dead (along with Izzy). So per usual, they trust God until "God" doesn't intervene to save them and they thwart God's apparent plan.

[Aja]

Until they need actual, trained medical professionals to save them from themselves. If Jill and Jessa had truly "trusted God" then they'd both be dead (along with Izzy). So per usual, they trust God until "God" doesn't intervene to save them and they thwart God's apparent plan.

Nevermind that Michelle would have been dead like eight kids ago. I think that's pretty much the crux of why I find them so revolting. It's the same as when we are reminded every 3 seconds that they leave the size of their families "up to God." No they don't. They don't leave anything up to God, and they pretty much blatantly defy Jesus Christ with every self-worshipping, greedy move they make. They are all about self-worship and money, which is the case with 90% of reality TV famewhores, except they dress everything up in flowery, Christian fundie-speak because if you argue with Jesus, you're automatically wrong. It's the perfect crime. If anyone calls them to task about ANYTHING, including how abysmally they failed their daughters, on come the waterworks and out comes Jesus. Piss off.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Aja

[Wellfleet]

Even the CPM hacks that "trained" Jill want everyone to know that they did not assist with Jessa's delivery. Or Jill's delivery, for that matter. 

 

Passive aggressive much? Clearly, they've had a parting of ways...

 

https://www.facebook.com/269181913180625/photos/a.269728809792602.55371.269181913180625/824967387602072/?type=3&theater

 

Wow - very interesting. So basically, the bottom line here is that A Mommy's Butterfly - which I'm assuming consists of several midwives in their area, a midwifery practice? - is saying "Don't blame us for the Jill and Jessa birth experiences. Neither one of these girls takes birthing advice very well..." ??? 

At one point after Jana said she didn't want to be a midwife, she was on the state midwife apprentice list.  Either she willingly changed her mind or it was changed for her. 

 

Gee, I wonder which it was...

[farmgal4]

I thought Doulas were more like birth coaches. Can they be held liable for anything that goes wrong?

GeeGolly, I asked the same question on Pickles FB page. The Duggar girls are idiots, but this Teresa chick must be mentally ill to do what she's doing. IMO nobody in their right mind would try to deliver a baby without proper training/certification. I would think if there was a death or permanent injury/handicap, she could be charged with manslaughter/attempted manslaughter or some other crime, couldn't she? Honest to God, this woman is totally nuts IMO!

[mimionthebeach]

Jessa and Jill are afraid they won't be able to out-breed MEchelle so they're trying to out-martyr her. And they are truly rockin' it. How many pregnancies did MEchelle have to go through before she almost died? Both the girls got that badge first time!

[kokapetl]

I'm still waiting to see some documentation on that one. I checked on the State's website and Jill isn't listed as a licensed midwife. Mrs. Query is on there, though.

I hate to admit this, but I'm looking forward to the specials just to see how TLC was able to selectively edit this latest disaster.

If Jill was in Guatemala at the time of the delivery, can they nab her if she wasn't in the USA, let alone Arkansas? Could she actually be that cunning?

[farmgal4]

Y'all need to Google Teresa Fedosky. She's a full-fledged nutcase. Just one of her comments that prove it:

"We need more Christians having more children and bringing them up into multigenerational faithfulness. When did the church start hating children?" SMDH and gob smacked.

[Treehugger]

If Jill was in Guatemala at the time of the delivery, can they nab her if she wasn't in the USA, let alone Arkansas? Could she actually be that cunning?

Well, the family does think being sly is okay, so I guess they could try to be cunning as well.

[Churchhoney]

Y'all need to Google Teresa Fedosky. She's a full-fledged nutcase. Just one of her comments that prove it:

"We need more Christians having more children and bringing them up into multigenerational faithfulness. When did the church start hating children?" SMDH and gob smacked.

 

Interesting. "Multigenerational faithfulness" is right out of the Vision Forum "200-year plan." Wonder if that's where she got it. .... I think it's spread much farther than that gang, though -- especially as they've split up. It's very Rushdoonyish, I think. So it probably permeates much of the Christian homeschool movement. And maybe Quiverful?

 

It's kind of ironic, isn/t it? Cause courting dangerous birthings probably isn't the best way to get there. lol

Edited November 19, 2015 by Churchhoney

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

Really, that is a New England winter hat, not an indoor beanie. And maybe I am old fashioned, but other than the brown towel and the one shot of them in front of the hospital sheet, the baby is never swaddled. My kids loved being swaddled in the first month or so. Is that not a thing anymore?

Mine hated it too, and he was 9lbs 10oz. Bam Bam Spurgy Man was also a big baby, so maybe it's a bigger baby thing-they don't need the swaddle as much as a tinier baby. Or they're just strong enough to babyHULK their way out.

Our son loved to be swaddled as a very young baby. For the first five weeks of his life, he only slept if he was being held (swaddled or u swaddled) or swaddled in his bassinet. If you weren't holding him, he usually wouldn't sleep without being swaddled. He was almost 10lbs when he was born and very strong. He would get out of swaddles easily if they were done with a regular baby blanket. He'd fall asleep swaddled, get out of the swaddle as he moved in his sleep (he's always moved around a lot while sleeping), wake up and cry. This would go on over & over. We got swaddle blankets and sleep sacks that he couldn't get out of as easily and it made a huge difference. Mom & Dad got some more sleep then for sure. I guess it just depends on the baby.

Swaddling is definitely still a thing. The hospital workers kept him swaddled while we were there as well.

Edited November 19, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[Marigold]

I can't quote today...it's raining hard here and Optimum Online doesn't work in the rain. At least for me.

Anyway, yes, that's what I dislike about the Duggars. So much "faith" in the no birth control and homebirth but when something goes wrong, boy do they scatter to medical professioanls for help!

Why didn't they just pray for Jessa to stop bleeding?

Why call 911? Just throw Jessa in Ben's beloved pick up truck and drive her yourself?

Why bring her to a hospital at all?

That convenient faith grates on the nerves after a while...

[BitterApple]

So I was just scrolling through the regulations governing lay midwives in Arkansas and there was a laundry list of issues that mandate immediate transfer to a physician. Among them was hemorrhaging and meconium staining without imminent birth, two factors present in Jessa's and Jill's deliveries.

I wonder if Jessa and Jill even realize the kind of danger they put themselves in or whether they're couching their poor decision making as a "test of faith."

[Guest]

Y'all need to Google Teresa Fedosky. She's a full-fledged nutcase. Just one of her comments that prove it:

"We need more Christians having more children and bringing them up into multigenerational faithfulness. When did the church start hating children?" SMDH and gob smacked.

 

Forget Googling her. Google her doctor husband.

 

Holy prescription drug-abusing addict with a revoked license, batman!

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I can't quote today...it's raining hard here and Optimum Online doesn't work in the rain. At least for me.Anyway, yes, that's what I dislike about the Duggars. So much "faith" in the no birth control and homebirth but when something goes wrong, boy do they scatter to medical professioanls for help!Why didn't they just pray for Jessa to stop bleeding?Why call 911? Just throw Jessa in Ben's beloved pick up truck and drive her yourself?Why bring her to a hospital at all?That convenient faith grates on the nerves after a while...

Similarly, they disparage education outside of Gothard's homeschooling program and none of their kids have gone to accredited colleges, yet they run to graduates of accredited post-secondary institutions and medical schools (doctors, nurses, etc) when they need help. Guess that Satanic secular, accredited education isn't too bad when it's saving your life.

[toodles]

https://instagram.com/p/-PS3p7DfkZ/

More religious stuff! I read so many comments and I do believe that Jessa is losing her leg-humper base fans.

So now a new born baby is spewing religious vitriol?  How low can they sink.  

[lookeyloo]

I can't quote today...it's raining hard here and Optimum Online doesn't work in the rain. At least for me.

Anyway, yes, that's what I dislike about the Duggars. So much "faith" in the no birth control and homebirth but when something goes wrong, boy do they scatter to medical professioanls for help!

Why didn't they just pray for Jessa to stop bleeding?

Why call 911? Just throw Jessa in Ben's beloved pick up truck and drive her yourself?

Why bring her to a hospital at all?

That convenient faith grates on the nerves after a while...

THIS!  I've thought this myself.  Why not just pray for Jill's baby to pop out or Jessa's bleeding to stop.  If medical professionals aren't good enough for prenatal care or a delivery, why do they rush there is they are in trouble?  Are they not faithful enough, didn't pray enough?  What's up with that?

[toodles]

So I was just scrolling through the regulations governing lay midwives in Arkansas and there was a laundry list of issues that mandate immediate transfer to a physician. Among them was hemorrhaging and meconium staining without imminent birth, two factors present in Jessa's and Jill's deliveries.

I wonder if Jessa and Jill even realize the kind of danger they put themselves in or whether they're couching their poor decision making as a "test of faith."

Pride and ignorance goeth before the fall.  And it's going to be a long, long fall.

[Marigold]

See, this is where my Fundamentalist Baptist background and the Duggars split.

Uh, we went to schools and I was encouraged to be an excellent student (i'm female, btw). Professionals were not an issue. In fact, we were encouraged to go to college and be a Godly professional in our field of study.

Later, as an adult, I encountered this irrational fear of licensed professionals. It was a factor in leaving the whole denomination. To me, it's absurd. I think God works through all sorts of jobs, professions and people.

(Except for Josh. he felt comfortable paying a professional.)

Edited November 19, 2015 by Marigold

[GeeGolly]

See, this is where my Fundamentalist Baptist background and the Duggars split.

Uh, we went to schools and I was encouraged to be an excellent student (i'm female, btw). Professionals were not an issue. In fact, we were encouraged to go to college and be a Godly professional in our field of study.

Later, as an adult, I encountered this irrational fear of licensed professionals. It was a factor in leaving the whole denomination. To me, it's absurd. I think God works through all sorts of jobs, professions and people.

(Except for Josh. he felt comfortable paying a professional.)

I came home from work very cranky. The last line of this post made me giggle. Thanks.

[Darknight]

How stupid can one be?

[toodles]

How stupid can one be?

With this group, there seem to be varying degrees of stupid.  Some very and some only a little bit.

[Fuzzysox]

Why no pictures of the Seewalds holding the baby? I've onle seen one with Guinn but not Michael. I find it strange and it bothers me anyone else? Goth Rebel Girl Seewald was excited about being an auntie but no pictures of her either.

[Joe Jitsu913]

What if the only medical professional there was Muslim or Catholic? Do the Duggars get to pick and choose who gets to care for them in a medical emergency? What if the nurse or doctor was God forbid, gay!!! The horror!! Or do the Duggars try to do some soul winning and convert that ebil Catholic doctor while he's trying to save Jessa from hemorrhaging? So many questions and so little answers.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Joe Jitsu913

[Guest]

Why no pictures of the Seewalds holding the baby? I've onle seen one with Guinn but not Michael. I find it strange and it bothers me anyone else? Goth Rebel Girl Seewald was excited about being an auntie but no pictures of her either.

 

Considering how Jessica blabbed about Spurgeon's birth on social media, I'm guessing that she won't get to see the kid until his 18th birthday. LOL!

[farmgal4]

Forget Googling her. Google her doctor husband.

 

Holy prescription drug-abusing addict with a revoked license, batman!

I did that too. The way I understand it is that he has his medical license back but not his license to prescribe narcotics. He approached the board on three separate occasions practically begging for them back, but the DEA said no way. Even after he was caught the first time, he later gave two dirty drug tests. He wouldn't follow the stipulations and demands that the board required of him. He sounds an awful lot like Josh. These people... SMDH

[kokapetl]

Michelle's dealer/doctor?

Edited November 20, 2015 by Kokapetl

[NikSac]

So now a new born baby is spewing religious vitriol?  How low can they sink.  

 

I'm assuming this is a quote from his namesake, the "original" Spurgeon, but that was my first thought as well!

[Purpose to defraud]

Similarly, they disparage education outside of Gothard's homeschooling program and none of their kids have gone to accredited colleges, yet they run to graduates of accredited post-secondary institutions and medical schools (doctors, nurses, etc) when they need help. Guess that Satanic secular, accredited education isn't too bad when it's saving your life.

Or lawyers saving your money.

[GeeGolly]

Why no pictures of the Seewalds holding the baby? I've onle seen one with Guinn but not Michael. I find it strange and it bothers me anyone else? Goth Rebel Girl Seewald was excited about being an auntie but no pictures of her either.

Good point. Very odd.

[Defrauder]

Quiverfull is like Crazyville.  'Outbreeding' others for an army of quivers. Just make sure when you're trying to outbreed everyone else you do it in the most pain you can and in as much danger as you can so you can really seem like you're a hero for filling your quiver mission.  

[Barb23]

Why no pictures of the Seewalds holding the baby? I've onle seen one with Guinn but not Michael. I find it strange and it bothers me anyone else? Goth Rebel Girl Seewald was excited about being an auntie but no pictures of her either.

After all, Guinn was a prestigious member of Jessa's "birth team" so why no pictures?

Edited November 20, 2015 by Barb23

[truthtalk2014]

I saw some interesting posts to Venessa's FB today. I can't copy the screenshots, but I can summarize. Maybe the posts are still there, but somehow, after you read this, you can see why I think Venessa may have deleted them. If you can go to her FB and see posts by "Robert Smith" and "Rebecca Smith" and can post screenshots, please do! 

 

First, by "Robert Smith" (admitted creating this account to post anonymously on this thread):

 

 Says that Jill did not use Venessa, and that no midwife was there to attend her at the end, just the assistant midwife (who would be the Query woman). "He goes on to say that she is now licensed, but is under investigation for Jill's birth and claims that she will "most likely" lose her license. Claims that this can all be checked out via freedom of information act. Says that he thinks that Teresa Fedosky (Anna's doula) attended Jessa's birth.

 

"Rebecca Smith " confirms that Teresa did in fact attend Jessa. Goes on to say that Teresa Fedosky's practices are "very dangerous" and that she "trusts birth" too much, ignoring obvious signs of distress. Through "two degrees of separation," knows of several harrowing birth stories featuring Mrs. Fedosky. This person has to post anonymously due to Teresa's true believers who seem to be rabid beaver type leghumpers who would ruin this person's reputation locally. States that she needs to be stopped. 

 

So...yeah...it makes sense that Fedosky wouldn't make a 911 call. Given that her doctor husband lost his license to practice a few years ago (stealing and selling drugs, classy), I'm sure her name is well-known in medical circles in the area, and she knows better than to be on that phone. I speculated earlier that people may have scurried out before the EMTs showed up; if Fedosky did in fact attend, now I KNOW that she made a beeline out of there before help arrived. 

 

And the Duggars will protect her, despite what happened to Jessa. Deplorable. 

Is this the page you are talking about?

https://www.facebook.com/A-Mommys-Butterfly-Midwifery-155580851151697/timeline

[BitterApple]

Is this the page you are talking about?

https://www.facebook.com/A-Mommys-Butterfly-Midwifery-155580851151697/timeline

Daayyyuumm, did you read the comments? The women in Northwest Arkansas are spilling the tea!

Apparently, whoever attended Jessa lies about her credentials, has no training and falsely calls herself a midwife when she isn't. Obviously it's Theresa, who must have ran away from the Mold House like it was on fire in order to avoid the EMTs.

It also says that Jill's midwife was cleared from any wrongdoing because the client (Jill) and the apprentice (Mrs. Query) never kept her properly informed about Jill's condition.

You know shit's about to get real when even the leghumpers are starting to turn on them. *grabs popcorn and settles in*