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The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

frenchtoast

By frenchtoast
in Counting On

cm-soupsipper
Message added by cm-soupsipper,

Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

37 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

If they believe that people are already predestined to be the “chosen” ones or not, then how can they grow their churches much? Only a small number of people are in that predestined group, right?

Well, I think they partly count on the fact that you don't know whether you're in or out. Uncertainty is something that sells religion generally, I think. So it probably works that way for them, too, I'd think....

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Spencer Hastings
Spencer Hastings

Tough crowd!  She's wearing modern shoes with closed toes, pants, and a shirt that literally calls back to her family's ridiculous rules and there are still 35 things wrong with what she's doing. 

Churchhoney
Churchhoney

That's okay. He's forgotten it a few times himself. 

GeeGolly
GeeGolly

My push presents after having my kids were my kids. 

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Cinnabon

Cinnabon

(edited)
6 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Well, I think they partly count on the fact that you don't know whether you're in or out. Uncertainty is something that sells religion generally, I think. So it probably works that way for them, too, I'd think....

So I assume they don’t know (people like Jer and Bin) that they are some of the chosen, either?  And if you are one of the chosen ones, then why worry so much about your actions here on earth? You’re going to “heaven” no matter what you do.

Edited by Cinnabon
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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
51 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

So I assume they don’t know (people like Jer and Bin) that they are some of the chosen, either?  And if you are one of the chosen ones, then why worry so much about your actions here on earth? You’re going to “heaven” no matter what you do.

According to the theory, nobody knows....So Bin and Jer don't either. 

But a big reason you go to church in that conservative-Calvinist theology is because you know that just by virtue of being a human -- no matter what your behavior has been -- you're a hopeless basically unpardonable sinner who was born with the sin of Adam and Eve......So, by rights, every human completely deserves to be damned without even a trial. 

So you go to church to praise God and Jesus for being magnanimous enough to let some some people off, despite their total unworthiness. And you act according to the rules that their God thinks are important for the same reason -- it's what every human sort of owes to the God who's letting some humans off the hook, even though nobody at all deserves that.

Their Calvinism, in my opinion, is a reduced and stupid version of Calvinism. Calvin's actual stuff is complicated -- And complicated enough to have given birth to a lot of denominations/churches that focus on charitable/progressive behavior towards other people, too, not just these mean-spirited ones. ... Calvin himself shouldn't entirely be tarred with their brush, I don't think, because, like many churches'denominations'sects their flavor of it owes more to their own personalities and predilections than to any of the actual founding theologians of Christian churches. 

In every branch of Christianity, there are generous churches and kind of vicious ones, like a lot of these particular people are in my opinion.......So it's always ultimately more about the people involved in a given church than anything else, I think. 

 

Edited by Churchhoney
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SnapHappy

SnapHappy

(edited)

Jeremy is in Orange County, California.  Ben is in Buttplug, Arkansas.  

They don't live similar lives, didn't marry similar women, don't have similar hobbies or even speak the same ministerial language.  Comparing them by any rational means just doesn't work in my view.  Neither one of them is about religion, but both about appearances.

Jeremy will be as successful as he pushes himself to be.  Superficial, shady and as Hollywood as he can maintain.   Ben will be as successful as that albatross named Jessa will allow him to be.  Dour, downtrodden and with that creepy smile that never quite hits the mark.

I'd put my money on the Vuolos every time, if I had enough to afford it! 

 

Edited by SnapHappy
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CalicoKitty

CalicoKitty

I'm sort of waiting for Jer to come up with something like I saw on a late-night TV commercial.  This "pastor" Peter Popoff is giving away "free" packets of miracle water, and the people in the commercial that have imbibed it have new jobs, houses, and lots of money.  Popoff is giving these packets free for the asking, but I'm sure large "donations" are involved.  It makes me sad to think of people making donations for this little packet of water in the hopes that their lives will immediately have a huge change, but I would be very, very surprised if the guy "giving" the water is not making out in a huge way.  Lots of return for very little work--that sounds like Jer's work model.

Cinnabon

Cinnabon

24 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

According to the theory, nobody knows....So Bin and Jer don't either. 

But a big reason you go to church in that conservative-Calvinist theology is because you know that just by virtue of being a human -- no matter what your behavior has been -- you're a hopeless basically unpardonable sinner who was born with the sin of Adam and Eve......So, by rights, every human completely deserves to be damned without even a trial. 

So you go to church to praise God and Jesus for being magnanimous enough to let some some people off, despite their total unworthiness. And you act according to the rules that their God thinks are important for the same reason -- it's what every human sort of owes to the God who's letting some humans off the hook, even though nobody at all deserves that.

Their Calvinism, in my opinion, is a reduced and stupid version of Calvinism. Calvin's actual stuff is complicated -- And complicated enough to have given birth to a lot of denominations/churches that focus on charitable/progressive behavior towards other people, too, not just these mean-spirited ones. ... Calvin himself shouldn't entirely be tarred with their brush, I don't think, because, like many churches'denominations'sects their flavor of it owes more to their own personalities and predilections than to any of the actual founding theologians of Christian churches. 

In every branch of Christianity, there are generous churches and kind of vicious ones, like a lot of these particular people are in my opinion.......So it's always ultimately more about the people involved in a given church than anything else, I think. 

 

So no one knows if they are saved or not, no matter what they’ve done or how they’ve acted on earth. So if it turns out I was one of the “chosen” ones and I spent this life as a murderer and a thief, it wouldn’t matter in the end, because I was chosen? This seems like an excuse to partake in whatever I want in this life, no matter how horrible and “sinful.” Am I misinterpreting this?

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Cinnabon

Cinnabon

3 minutes ago, CalicoKitty said:

I'm sort of waiting for Jer to come up with something like I saw on a late-night TV commercial.  This "pastor" Peter Popoff is giving away "free" packets of miracle water, and the people in the commercial that have imbibed it have new jobs, houses, and lots of money.  Popoff is giving these packets free for the asking, but I'm sure large "donations" are involved.  It makes me sad to think of people making donations for this little packet of water in the hopes that their lives will immediately have a huge change, but I would be very, very surprised if the guy "giving" the water is not making out in a huge way.  Lots of return for very little work--that sounds like Jer's work model.

I feel sorry for the gullible people that fall for this, but I’m also thinking that you can’t fix stupid. 

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Fosca

Fosca

4 minutes ago, CalicoKitty said:

I'm sort of waiting for Jer to come up with something like I saw on a late-night TV commercial.  This "pastor" Peter Popoff is giving away "free" packets of miracle water, and the people in the commercial that have imbibed it have new jobs, houses, and lots of money.  Popoff is giving these packets free for the asking, but I'm sure large "donations" are involved.  It makes me sad to think of people making donations for this little packet of water in the hopes that their lives will immediately have a huge change, but I would be very, very surprised if the guy "giving" the water is not making out in a huge way.  Lots of return for very little work--that sounds like Jer's work model.

He (and others) have been doing this for decades.  It's definitely a racket.  And Jeremy is definitely more of the "Peter Popoff" model of preacher.  Hopefully Jeremy won't try to be a "faith healer" too.

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satrunrose

satrunrose

(edited)
On 11/12/2021 at 4:31 PM, Cinnabon said:

So no one knows if they are saved or not, no matter what they’ve done or how they’ve acted on earth. So if it turns out I was one of the “chosen” ones and I spent this life as a murderer and a thief, it wouldn’t matter in the end, because I was chosen? This seems like an excuse to partake in whatever I want in this life, no matter how horrible and “sinful.” Am I misinterpreting this?

It depends on which Calvinists you ask. As Church Honey says, not all Calvinists are Ben and Jeremy Calvinists. The short answer is that if you are one of the saved, you will be so filled with the holy spirit that you'll just instinctivly behave well, even if you don't know for sure that you're going to Heaven. I assume part of that was continuing push back against the idea that you could buy your way to salvation by good works, saying the sinner's prayer, buying indulgences etc. 

Source: sorta kinda member of a progressive church that has roots in Presbyterianism (which is a flavour of Calvinism), but has dropped predestination (As far as I know, my church is big on social justice and generally silent on salvation). 

Edited by satrunrose
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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

1 hour ago, Cinnabon said:

So no one knows if they are saved or not, no matter what they’ve done or how they’ve acted on earth. So if it turns out I was one of the “chosen” ones and I spent this life as a murderer and a thief, it wouldn’t matter in the end, because I was chosen? This seems like an excuse to partake in whatever I want in this life, no matter how horrible and “sinful.” Am I misinterpreting this?

I'm taking this over to Old Time Religion. 

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Ijustwantsomechips

Ijustwantsomechips

17 hours ago, CalicoKitty said:

I'm sort of waiting for Jer to come up with something like I saw on a late-night TV commercial.  This "pastor" Peter Popoff is giving away "free" packets of miracle water, and the people in the commercial that have imbibed it have new jobs, houses, and lots of money.  Popoff is giving these packets free for the asking, but I'm sure large "donations" are involved.  It makes me sad to think of people making donations for this little packet of water in the hopes that their lives will immediately have a huge change, but I would be very, very surprised if the guy "giving" the water is not making out in a huge way.  Lots of return for very little work--that sounds like Jer's work model.

Those infomercials crack my boyfriend up. And I could definitely see Jeremy trying some shady business like this in a few years.

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Misslindsey

Misslindsey

10 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Oh no. I see a future of Ben and Jeremy's Christian Ice Cream.

Praise the Lord Pistachio 

Vanilla Virgin.

5 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

I just read that some fundies are now boycotting Ben & Jerry’s for their stance on racism.

Fundies are just now boycotting Ben and Jerry? Ben and Jerry have been proactive in a lot of progressive policies for a long time and fundies are just now realizing it? 

Jerry did a talk at my university awhile back. He even brought ice cream.

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Fallacy

Fallacy

(edited)
On 11/12/2021 at 3:31 PM, Cinnabon said:

So no one knows if they are saved or not, no matter what they’ve done or how they’ve acted on earth. So if it turns out I was one of the “chosen” ones and I spent this life as a murderer and a thief, it wouldn’t matter in the end, because I was chosen? This seems like an excuse to partake in whatever I want in this life, no matter how horrible and “sinful.” Am I misinterpreting this?

Yes. If you were one of the chosen ones, you would experience God’s  “irresistible grace,” which is the I in Calvin’s TULIP. What that means is that you would hear God calling you and would be unable to resist submitting to him. So you don’t be a murderer or a thief because you would submit yourself to God’s authority. You wouldn’t be able to resist. 

Here is the definition of the term “ irresistible grace”:

Irresistible grace is a doctrine in Christian theology particularly associated with Calvinism, which teaches that the saving grace of God is effectually applied to those whom He has determined to save and, in God's timing, overcomes their resistance to obeying the call of the gospel, bringing them to faith in Christ.

Edited by Fallacy
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Nysha

Nysha

On 11/11/2021 at 8:20 AM, GeeGolly said:

Maybe its my lack of real life exposure, but it seems to me either you're a very rich preacher, or you're a preacher who needs a second job to make ends meet. But I don't see Jeremy's next steps as being a full time preacher with his own church. I'm not sure what he'll exactly do though.

Anyway, the Vuolos either have money or they're living beyond their means. Time will tell.

Or you're just progressive enough to let your wife work. 

On 11/11/2021 at 12:56 PM, emmawoodhouse said:

It's now Evangaleen? Make up your mind dude! (Hang in there, no audio for about 20 seconds to start) 

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CWIIQnglscN/?utm_medium=copy_link

I've always heard it pronounced Evangeleen and had a hard time with the Evangeline pronunciation even though that is how it is spelt.

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beckie

beckie

3 hours ago, Nysha said:

Or you're just progressive enough to let your wife work. 

I've always heard it pronounced Evangeleen and had a hard time with the Evangeline pronunciation even though that is how it is spelt.

And EvangeLINE was how they themselves were pronouncing it. So if they're now saying it LEEN they need to make up their minds or that child will have issues with her name.

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cm-soupsipper
Message added by cm-soupsipper,

Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

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