The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

[Tikichick]

If the Duggars weren't a TV family and were simply a fundie family with exactly the same beliefs and the exact same history, what would be wrong with Jinger living her life exactly as she pleases, including publishing a children's book?   She hasn't molested or abused children, so why should she be precluded from living her life?

I have no problem with Josh, JB and M receiving their lashings, but I don't think the siblings have any responsibility to answer for any of it.

I'm not suggesting that Jinger actually does live her life as she pleases (sadly), or that I'm interested in her book.  I'm simply saying that she has nothing to answer for in terms of Josh's crimes.  

 

[BitterApple]

56 minutes ago, xwordfanatik said:

Dear God, how big is their fucking closet to hold all those shoes?  These people make Imelda Marcos look normal.  

 

Remember that Sex And The City episode when Carrie couldn't afford the down payment for her apartment because she'd blown her money on designer shoes? Why do I feel like that will eventually be the Vuolos? Jeremy better hope his grift game holds up and a newer, younger acolyte doesn't hit the scene. 

[Suzn]

1 hour ago, Tikichick said:

If the Duggars weren't a TV family and were simply a fundie family with exactly the same beliefs and the exact same history, what would be wrong with Jinger living her life exactly as she pleases, including publishing a children's book?   She hasn't molested or abused children, so why should she be precluded from living her life?

I have no problem with Josh, JB and M receiving their lashings, but I don't think the siblings have any responsibility to answer for any of it.

I'm not suggesting that Jinger actually does live her life as she pleases (sadly), or that I'm interested in her book.  I'm simply saying that she has nothing to answer for in terms of Josh's crimes.  

 

I've not seen anyone suggest that Jinger is in any way accountable for Josh's crimes.  Jinger is only accountable for her own idiocy.

[iwantcookies]

1 hour ago, xwordfanatik said:

Dear God, how big is their fucking closet to hold all those shoes?  These people make Imelda Marcos look normal.  

 

I imagine a giant walk in closet in that FREE house 

[lilwhitelion]

This is really petty, but I absolutely hate the Instagram profile picture Jinger is using.  

[sheshark]

The Vuolo’s sweet friend Gabby Barrett just sang on the CMAs, and was great.  They kept the lights off Punchable Auntie Cade so he couldn’t stage hog again.  
 

[BigBingerBro]

[SMama]

25 minutes ago, BigBingerBro said:

Why does he think anyone wants to watch him stuff his pie hole?

[emmawoodhouse]

Is that a hot dog sitting in front of him in the sesame bun? 

It's a wonder he doesn't weigh 300 lbs with the volume of food he can put away with a 30-something's metabolism.

Edited November 11, 2021 by emmawoodhouse

[FizzyPuff]

On 11/9/2021 at 3:23 PM, laurakaye said:

Golf.  Views.  Cheeseburger.  Pen.  Books.  Kicks.

Jeremy is about as deep as a mud puddle.

Don’t you know that all these things Jesus would be into too? 😉

[Totally]

Jerm is the least of people I would ever want lecturing me on ‘the right way to live’ how can anyway take this tosser seriously.

A more shallow, materialistic person I can’t think of, and this includes JillR because as much as she is revolting she owns up to her revoltingness publicly, unlike Jerm who goes whichever way the wind blows that will get him more likes. 
 

And he calls himself a Christian 😒

Sell all of your bloody stupid shoes and go out and do some good in the world 

Tosser 

On second thoughts don’t sell your shoes go and give them to people doing it tough and don’t post about it or expect any grandstanding 

Tosser 

[laurakaye]

17 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Remember that Sex And The City episode when Carrie couldn't afford the down payment for her apartment because she'd blown her money on designer shoes? Why do I feel like that will eventually be the Vuolos? Jeremy better hope his grift game holds up and a newer, younger acolyte doesn't hit the scene. 

Now that I think about this, maybe Jeremy is playing the long game here....like, once he becomes a super famous mega-church leader/podcaster/influencer/food critic/fountain pen designer/best-selling author, he'll start to auction off his closet full of shoes and make a fortune, because who wouldn't want to display a pair of fresh slightly-used kicks on their mantel, once owned by the great homie Jeremy Vuolo?

Kidding aside, against my better judgment I am once again forced to ponder how he is paying for the obscene amount of shoes he owns, not to mention shoes for Jing and the toddler-sized Nikes.  He cannot possibly be getting them for free in exchange for an IG post, he's a Zzzzz-list "celebrity."  Does he actually earn a paycheck from Johnny Mac?  Or is he being given an insane stipend?  I just don't get how he lives like he does.

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, laurakaye said:

Now that I think about this, maybe Jeremy is playing the long game here....like, once he becomes a super famous mega-church leader/podcaster/influencer/food critic/fountain pen designer/best-selling author, he'll start to auction off his closet full of shoes and make a fortune, because who wouldn't want to display a pair of fresh slightly-used kicks on their mantel, once owned by the great homie Jeremy Vuolo?

Kidding aside, against my better judgment I am once again forced to ponder how he is paying for the obscene amount of shoes he owns, not to mention shoes for Jing and the toddler-sized Nikes.  He cannot possibly be getting them for free in exchange for an IG post, he's a Zzzzz-list "celebrity."  Does he actually earn a paycheck from Johnny Mac?  Or is he being given an insane stipend?  I just don't get how he lives like he does.

I don't get it either. My guess is he does get a moderate but not tiny paycheck from stuff he does for the enterprise and also money for stuff like the recent speaking gig.....plus an insane halfway-under-the-table stipend.....And that most of the events they go to like Hamilton and baseball, and including the golfing, are freebies that MacArthur or somebody else there is given and then gives away to the younger and lesser lights......Right now, they've probably still got some of the advance from this second book.....

And, until very recently, there was tv money....and I assume the tv show, until recently, also paid for any of their even-vaguely-Duggar-related travel.....and maybe even some of Jingle's salon visits, since she was the talent?????

I don't see how their social media or podcasting brings in more than very minimal cash, if that, although maybe with the numbers of followers they have it somehow does?

But they certainly must have had a cash need in mind when they created their online shop -- because why do that otherwise? .... And that was a bust, so the money line there never panned out....

The whole list including perks still doesn't add up to even the tiniest nest egg in the event of future employment gaps or whatever other needs such as finally having to pay for lodging once he gets his degree.....And with the tv money all gone now, that's got to leave a dent?......

I assume he's not worried at all about a job gap for some time, though, since I'd guess he's been promised some spot in the MacArthur enterprise.....But surely that doesn't come with a free house for every employee.......Although...maybe it does in the case of an employee who brings a lot of social-media followers with him????

Even with all the perks I'm sure he's getting, the overall picture -- and definitely the picture beyond the end of this school year -- is still baffling.  

 

 

Edited November 11, 2021 by Churchhoney

[ginger90]

Wherever they get money from, the things they appear to buy are frivolous, to me. What kind of a preacher does that make Jeremy? 

[Westiepeach]

21 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Wherever they get money from, the things they appear to buy are frivolous, to me. What kind of a preacher does that make Jeremy? 

A very frivolous one.

[Churchhoney]

59 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Wherever they get money from, the things they appear to buy are frivolous, to me. What kind of a preacher does that make Jeremy? 

And he so expansively tells the whole world about his spending and what he values...... He really must be counting completely on just continuing with MacArthur after he gets his degree......

Because surely he knows enough about churches -- having grown up with a pastor father -- to realize that when you're looking for a pastor job, search committees may scrutinize you....and may be looking for something besides which brands of sneakers you're addicted to and how many times you've been in a skybox lately......

Or maybe he's just too dumb to realize that....or he believes there are enough churches where people share his interests and "values???" for him to get a job at one? 

It really amazes me that he flaunts his frivolity instead of downplaying it at all....

Edited November 11, 2021 by Churchhoney

[Absolom]

10 hours ago, SMama said:

Why does he think anyone wants to watch him stuff his pie hole?

I wouldn't mind going all day without a photo of Jeremy eating, holding a pen, or pretending to study showing up.

[GeeGolly]

Maybe its my lack of real life exposure, but it seems to me either you're a very rich preacher, or you're a preacher who needs a second job to make ends meet. But I don't see Jeremy's next steps as being a full time preacher with his own church. I'm not sure what he'll exactly do though.

Anyway, the Vuolos either have money or they're living beyond their means. Time will tell.

Edited November 11, 2021 by GeeGolly

[Suzn]

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

It really amazes me that he flaunts his frivolity instead of downplaying it at all....

It is flabbergasting that that is what he offers daily.  It's not even entertaining.  I find that I have no words for his constant display of shallowness.

1 hour ago, Absolom said:

I wouldn't mind going all day without a photo of Jeremy eating, holding a pen, or pretending to study showing up.

I don't want to see anyone eat...or hold a pen...or pretend to study.  He can't even make his performances interesting.

[SMama]

Last month we were in Redlands and decided to drop by Orange Street Alley. Anyone recognize this mural? The name of the burger joint is Hate Burger. I have no idea why that made me laugh. There’s something wrong with me because I didn’t have the overwhelming need to take a selfie with a burger. 

Edited November 11, 2021 by SMama

[Jeeves]

4 hours ago, Absolom said:

I wouldn't mind going all day without a photo of Jeremy eating, holding a pen, or pretending to study showing up.

I've started clicking by this topic when I'm visiting the forum. I'm just OVER them. Let them keep on putting out random SM posts so that people will talk about what they could mean but I'm kinda done playing.

I agree with @GeeGolly that they could be racking up debt to afford those shoes and burgers, or have more money than we thought. I suppose Jer is succeeding at his Sucking Up to Powerful Old Guys career plan, so maybe no financial chickens will come home to roost for them. I wonder if he'll be able to craft a Sucking-Up career that keeps them living in great comfort in LA. 

[iwantcookies]

29 minutes ago, SMama said:

Last month we were in Redlands and decided to drop by Orange Street Alley. Anyone recognize this mural? The name of the burger joint is Hate Burger. I have no idea why that made me laugh. There’s something wrong with me because I didn’t have the overwhelming need to take a selfie with a burger. 

Can someone photoshop Jer into that photo? Jer would totally pose in front of that!

[emmawoodhouse]

It's now Evangaleen? Make up your mind dude! (Hang in there, no audio for about 20 seconds to start) 

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CWIIQnglscN/?utm_medium=copy_link

[Cinnabon]

35 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

It's now Evangaleen? Make up your mind dude! (Hang in there, no audio for about 20 seconds to start) 

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CWIIQnglscN/?utm_medium=copy_link

Well, Jinger still can’t correctly pronounce “Felicity,” either 🤣.

[YupItsMe]

If Jer were really smart he would use his IG to post daily words of encouragement with occasional pics of his family doing normal middle class family things. His SM will be scrutinized by Search Committee members looking for new pastors. Unless he plans to stay in an area where expensive shoes and costly restaurant food is the norm, he’ll never get a pastor’s position. I would venture to say that the majority of churches in this country are filled with normal people just trying to get by. These people don’t have money to throw away on the things he seems to find important and will see that his priorities are too far out of line with the communities needs.

[cmr2014]

8 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

And he so expansively tells the whole world about his spending and what he values...... He really must be counting completely on just continuing with MacArthur after he gets his degree......

Because surely he knows enough about churches -- having grown up with a pastor father -- to realize that when you're looking for a pastor job, search committees may scrutinize you....and may be looking for something besides which brands of sneakers you're addicted to and how many times you've been in a skybox lately......

Or maybe he's just too dumb to realize that....or he believes there are enough churches where people share his interests and "values???" for him to get a job at one? 

It really amazes me that he flaunts his frivolity instead of downplaying it at all....

I kind of think that this is the point.

Despite the fact that they're not Prosperity Gospel, everything about them absolutely sings "prosperity gospel." 

I think he's trying to project the image of the man he wants to become -- the successful, affluent leader of a prosperous mega-church.

He wants people to believe that he's a Biblical scholar and a serious thinker, so he takes pictures of books. I don't know that it even occurs to him to read the books -- he's creating an image.

He wants people to believe that he's a "good Christian" so there are photos of him with his lovely wife and daughters, and he makes the appropriate 1950's comments about his "better half."

He takes the photos of himself with the food and the new kicks to show that he's got his finger on the pulse of the younger generation. I'm sure that MacArthur thinks that "all the kids" take pictures of food all the time.

I don't think he thinks at all about positioning himself to get a job in the future, I don't think he expects to need a job. I think he expects that he will be dropped into a role as a senior pastor at a mega-church once he's completed his "studies" with virtually no effort on his part beyond some "networking."

He's well into his thirties now. I think that if "working" or "studying" or "thinking" or "helping others" were things that he wanted to do, he would have done them by now.

[YupItsMe]

He needs to become a much more dynamic speaker and leader if he wants to head a mega church. That’s what he should be concentrating on, not his outfits.

[cmr2014]

4 minutes ago, YupItsMe said:

He needs to become a much more dynamic speaker and leader if he wants to head a mega church. That’s what he should be concentrating on, not his outfits.

I agree. I think he's completely delusional.

To be the pastor of a successful mega-church, he would need charisma and really electrifying speaking ability. To put it kindly, he doesn't have either.

Getting all those bodies into seats requires offering a message that people want to hear. Prosperity gospel is extremely positive. I may not like it, but millions of people desperately want to believe that God WANTS them to have a motor boat. Calvinism is a tough sell to a modern audience, and Jeremy adds nothing to make it more inviting.

Running a mega-church is business. It's not "pass around the basket" and the occasional bake sale. All kinds of marketing and merchandising is necessary to keep the doors open. Jeremy's bizarre forays into candle sales and cooking blogs suggest that he isn't a natural businessman of any kind.

The evangelical market is shrinking and there are plenty of people already in the mega-church business, and plenty more knocking at the door.  There isn't a lot of room here, and a poseur like Jeremy isn't going to make the cut.

[Zella]

14 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

I kind of think that this is the point.

Despite the fact that they're not Prosperity Gospel, everything about them absolutely sings "prosperity gospel." 

I think he's trying to project the image of the man he wants to become -- the successful, affluent leader of a prosperous mega-church.

He wants people to believe that he's a Biblical scholar and a serious thinker, so he takes pictures of books. I don't know that it even occurs to him to read the books -- he's creating an image.

He wants people to believe that he's a "good Christian" so there are photos of him with his lovely wife and daughters, and he makes the appropriate 1950's comments about his "better half."

He takes the photos of himself with the food and the new kicks to show that he's got his finger on the pulse of the younger generation. I'm sure that MacArthur thinks that "all the kids" take pictures of food all the time.

I don't think he thinks at all about positioning himself to get a job in the future, I don't think he expects to need a job. I think he expects that he will be dropped into a role as a senior pastor at a mega-church once he's completed his "studies" with virtually no effort on his part beyond some "networking."

He's well into his thirties now. I think that if "working" or "studying" or "thinking" or "helping others" were things that he wanted to do, he would have done them by now.

I think you are correct in how he views this, but I love that he's so oblivious that he doesn't realize the vapid sneakers and burgers pics for the homies really undermine any sense of him as a Biblical scholar and deep thinker. 

[SnapHappy]

51 minutes ago, YupItsMe said:

If Jer were really smart he would use his IG to post daily words of encouragement with occasional pics of his family doing normal middle class family things. His SM will be scrutinized by Search Committee members looking for new pastors. Unless he plans to stay in an area where expensive shoes and costly restaurant food is the norm, he’ll never get a pastor’s position. I would venture to say that the majority of churches in this country are filled with normal people just trying to get by. These people don’t have money to throw away on the things he seems to find important and will see that his priorities are too far out of line with the communities needs.

Screw the middle-class yokels!  Blending with them would make him look like a poor, uneducated hick, like his wife's family.  I can't see his church elders wanting him to cultivate the poor, unwashed masses.  Those people don't have money.  They don't have  community standing or power.  They don't have beach houses or mountain getaways. They can't fill the collection plate every Sunday. 

I think Mac & the Masters bigwigs LOVE seeing Jeremy on social media showing off golf outings, expensive shoes, handcrafted pens, designer clothes & trendy food to followers.  THOSE are the people MacArthur wants in his seminary and in his church.  The humble and wretched need not apply.  

And I think Jinger is 100% willingly along for the ride.  No more mustard cardigans, worn out sandals or sharing anything with anybody.  I think she loves her new lifestyle and has plenty of freedom.  She shucked off that poverty-ridden grind easily and I think with plenty of enthusiasm.  I also think she & Jeremy do actually adore each other and their daughters.  

And I think every post they make that shows any aspect of living "the good life" is a fuck you to her freak family still riding the Arkansas limited.  

 

Edited November 11, 2021 by SnapHappy

[SMama]

4 hours ago, iwantcookies said:

Can someone photoshop Jer into that photo? Jer would totally pose in front of that!

He did, that’s why I asked if anyone recognized the mural. 

[Cinnabon]

6 minutes ago, SnapHappy said:

Screw the middle-class yokels!  Blending with them would make him look like a poor, uneducated hick, like his wife's family.  I can't see his church elders wanting him to cultivate the poor, unwashed masses.  Those people don't have money.  They don't have  community standing or power.  They don't have beach houses or mountain getaways. They can't fill the collection plate every Sunday. 

I think Mac & the Masters bigwigs LOVE seeing Jeremy on social media showing off golf outings, expensive shoes, handcrafted pens, designer clothes & trendy food to followers.  THOSE are the people MacArthur wants in his seminary and in his church.  The humble and wretched need not apply.  

And I think Jinger is 100% willingly along for the ride.  No more mustard cardigans, worn out sandals or sharing anything with anybody.  I think she loves her new lifestyle and has plenty of freedom.  She shucked off that poverty-ridden grind easily and I think with plenty of enthusiasm.  I also think she & Jeremy do actually adore each other and their daughters.  

And I think every post they make that shows any aspect of living "the good life" is a fuck you to her freak family still riding the Arkansas limited.  

 

What kind of “freedom” do you think Jinger has? I think she must do as her headship wishes.

[MargeGunderson]

I think Jer is going to end up as the right hand man to MacArthur or someone like him, not a full-time minister with his own congregation. He won’t be a minister that delivers sermons every week or counsels parishioners. He doesn’t have the charisma or compassion necessary for either, and it won’t pay enough to keep him in new shoes, fountain pens, and food. 

[cmr2014]

15 minutes ago, SnapHappy said:

Screw the middle-class yokels!  Blending with them would make him look like a poor, uneducated hick, like his wife's family.  I can't see his church elders wanting him to cultivate the poor, unwashed masses.  Those people don't have money.  They don't have  community standing or power.  They don't have beach houses or mountain getaways. They can't fill the collection plate every Sunday. 

I think Mac & the Masters bigwigs LOVE seeing Jeremy on social media showing off golf outings, expensive shoes, handcrafted pens, designer clothes & trendy food to followers.  THOSE are the people MacArthur wants in his seminary and in his church.  The humble and wretched need not apply.  

And I think Jinger is 100% willingly along for the ride.  No more mustard cardigans, worn out sandals or sharing anything with anybody.  I think she loves her new lifestyle and has plenty of freedom.  She shucked off that poverty-ridden grind easily and I think with plenty of enthusiasm.  I also think she & Jeremy do actually adore each other and their daughters.  

And I think every post they make that shows any aspect of living "the good life" is a fuck you to her freak family still riding the Arkansas limited.  

 

I think that this is pretty spot-on.

When I was thinking about my reply (above), the word "yokel" popped into my head and I felt like Jeremy's IG is supposed to make sure that we know that he's no "yokel." I was thinking about it from the point of view of "how does Jeremy think this is going to help him get a job," and that was probably the wrong POV to take. 

Your POV that he's doing this at the behest of MacArthur makes much more sense. MacArthur is marketing his church, and Jeremy is doing the SM work to show that MacArthur's people dress well, and play golf, and go to the theater. If you're rich and white, Look! here's a church for you! No yokels here!

Edited November 12, 2021 by cmr2014
spelling error

[GeeGolly]

Sadly, I think many middle class conservative churches would jump to hire Jeremy. Anything to get asses in the seats and money in the coffers.

[Cinnabon]

4 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Sadly, I think many middle class conservative churches would jump to hire Jeremy. Anything to get asses in the seats and money in the coffers.

That didn’t work so well when he was a pastor in Texas. 

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, cmr2014 said:

I think that this is pretty spot-on.

When I was thinking about my reply (above), the word "yokel" popped into my head and I felt like Jeremy's IG is supposed to make sure that we know that he's no "yokel." I was thinking about it from the point of view of "how does Jeremy think this is going to help him get a job," and that was probably the wrong POV to take. 

Your POV that he's doing this at the behest of MacArthur makes much more sense. MacArthur is marketing his church, and Jeremy is doing the SM work to show that MacArthur's people dress well, and play golf, and go to the theater. If you're rich and white, Look! here's a church for you! No yokels here!

That's the kind of congregation MacArthur's church has had ..... He's always portrayed himself and his groups as the rightful heir to the kind of upper-class Puritans who were the first social group to run this country. 

And that fit in very well with a significant portion of the southern California evangelicals back in the early through late-mid-20th century..... 

The problem that they've got, though is that the people who bought that vision and were part of it are now either mostly dead or aging away......And those people have also moved away from where the church, seminary and university are located.  So having the three institutions all kind of close together and under one management would make it more difficult than it is for some churches to move to be nearer the to the congregation they want -- and I don't think anybody's sure how you would muster an equivalent congregation today, among younger generations. 

But that's clearly why they had Jer there in the first place. I've never thought MacArthur was bothered by Jer's postings and such. He chose Jer for what Jer is......My argument has always been just that being so dead-on for what MacArthur wants likely makes Jer a terrible candidate for a lot of churches. So he's either gotta stay on with MacArthur or find something very similar -- and THEN he has to hope that some modernized version of the MacArthur model is actually going to be a viable church type of the future and that he, Jer, can take the position of number-one suckup to the guy who ends up being the head honcho there. 

At this point, it's not at all clear that that older model of this church can be sustained once MacArthur himself leaves the pulpit. They're just betting that it can with a slightly altered image....

As an article I read a while ago and posted over on the Religion thread notes, the current congregation make up what is known as a “commuter church.” In 2015, Swanson, the former Master’s Seminary administrator, was asked to write a report about Grace’s future prospects for growth. “I said the demographics are bad here,” Swanson said he told church leaders: 'Sixty-seven percent of Grace Church attendees live more than 30 miles from the church. […] They’re coming to hear John MacArthur and when that ends they’re not going to drive that far. I would estimate the church will decline 40 to 60 percent when John MacArthur is not there.,,,,,,,,,,'

So I don't think there's any question that Jer's doing what suits MacArthur's wants. I've said all along that MacArthur chose him for his social-media numbers and image.

Despite that, though, under the circumstances there are big questions that'll determine how Jer fares going forward, I think. 

First off, there's the question of whether the church can thrive under the "be conservative as all heck and simultaneously show that you're one with people who have money" thing when MacArthur's gone and in the location where they are.......Are they finding a new younger demographic that that appeals to? Are those people up for grabs or are there other churches who already have nabbed them? Will those people want to come to the location they're in or is that location too inconvenient for the demographic? 

And then there's also a question of whether Jer's making himself into the golden boy for the right heirs to MacArthur. (he's 82 and a half now, so he isn't going to last in teh plpit forever) You don't always know who's going to end up taking over, so I'm sure he's doing his best to suck to the right guys, but only time will tell whether he actually is? 

And if this church can't make a go of it with the philosophy they're pursuing now in their current location and they can't find a new location to thrive and be able to afford, are there enough other churches that'll also love Jer's persona? Because he's definitely all in with that persona. And it's a very specific and somewhat extreme position.

So if he has to go elsewhere, seems to me he's going to need somebody else who'll want both his theology and his image....... And even though there certainly are other churches like that, it's not the most usual combination, so he'll certainly have competitors fighting for non-infinite number of spots. And some of those competitors are likely also to have the charisma and the dynamic preaching that most all churches want -- and that Jer doesn't have. And especially now that they're off tv, I can easily imagine dynamic preaching and charisma in a prospective pastor could trump "but my wife Jingle has long been a beloved tv star." The allure of her fame is still there, but it's going to fade. I don't think he can count on that as much in the future as he has in the past. 

Or -- he'll have to cultivate a new image. .... But this is the image he likes. So he won't want to do that. Plus, since the internet is forever, it wouldn't be all that easy to convince anybody that he's different from the way he's portraying himself now. 

 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Churchhoney

[GeeGolly]

8 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

That didn’t work so well when he was a pastor in Texas. 

Agreed! I'm not saying it'll work, I'm just saying he'd get hired in hopes that it would work.

[Absolom]

MacArthur himself is completely dull as a pastor.  Most of his brand are.  There are some churches in Orange County where I can see Jeremy fitting in very well.  

[Churchhoney]

42 minutes ago, Absolom said:

MacArthur himself is completely dull as a pastor.  Most of his brand are.  There are some churches in Orange County where I can see Jeremy fitting in very well.  

What kinds of churches are those and what are their pastors like, if you don't mind elaborating a bit?

Because I find Jer dull too. He sounds to me very much like the old men of the MacArthur ilk when he talks preacher stuff, both in what he says and how he says it, even though the image he projects is intended to be so much livelier than that (and is livelier than that). 

So are there big contemporary churches that still want stodgy pompous preaching? Because that's the only kind of preaching I've heard him provide.....And it's what makes me think his future is in being somebody's sidekick, if he wants to be in a big active church....But maybe not? 

[cmr2014]

I think both Jeremy and Ben have a very unrealistic idea of the modern religious landscape (I could be 100% wrong because I'm hardly immersed in this world).

They are both boring public speakers who think that they are deep thinkers. They're also dull, dogmatic Calvinists who think that people want to hear the minutiae of their personal parsing of Bible passages.

Prosperity gospel is hot. It makes rich people feel good about being rich, and gives poor people inspiration that they, too, can become rich through prayer.

Generic, non-denominational churches are also popular. They're comfortable and allow people to be "Christians" without wading into dogmatic particulars.

I know others on this board have said that Calvinism is hot right now in Baptist circles, and I'll have to take their word for it. From my perspective, though, if you're spending all of your time with the Duggars, or at IBLP events, or the "conferences" that Jeremy attends, you might think that EVERYONE is interested in evangelical doctrine where the reality is that not many people are, and those numbers are dropping every year.

[YupItsMe]

Oh, silly me! I was thinking Jeremy wanted to preach the Word of God and literally minister to people. Should’ve known. 😁

[ChiCricket]

9 hours ago, YupItsMe said:

If Jer were really smart

He's not. 😁

[iwantcookies]

There. What?

Her smug face? Drinking coffee? I don’t get it.

[laurakaye]

20 hours ago, Jeeves said:

I've started clicking by this topic when I'm visiting the forum. I'm just OVER them. Let them keep on putting out random SM posts so that people will talk about what they could mean but I'm kinda done playing.

I completely understand your take on this thread.  I myself click on this thread first because most days, I am just so gleeful that when I think there's no way that Jeremy can become any more pompous or less self-aware, he manages to top himself.  It's an amazing feat, and one that frequently leaves me speechless.

 

16 hours ago, MargeGunderson said:

I think Jer is going to end up as the right hand man to MacArthur or someone like him, not a full-time minister with his own congregation. He won’t be a minister that delivers sermons every week or counsels parishioners. He doesn’t have the charisma or compassion necessary for either, and it won’t pay enough to keep him in new shoes, fountain pens, and food. 

If that's what he's going for, what would that entail?  It sounds very shady.  I wonder if Jeremy would be content for long to stay in someone's shadow, but I also wonder if that's exactly where he wants to be - still living the good life with all the freebies of being teacher's pet, but not actually having to do any real work.

 

18 minutes ago, iwantcookies said:

There. What?

Her smug face? Drinking coffee? I don’t get it.

This was a three-part IG story.  Three different poses, each with a one word caption - OH.  HEY.  THERE.  And I hate myself for knowing this...freaking Jeremy Vuolo's stupid IG stories usually come up at the top of my IG list every morning, and I have no self-control so I end up looking at them, and then marveling at his extraordinary level of pomposity.

Edited November 12, 2021 by laurakaye

[Churchhoney]

13 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

 

I know others on this board have said that Calvinism is hot right now in Baptist circles, and I'll have to take their word for it. 

All I mean when I say Calvinism is hot in Baptist circles is that, for the first time ever, in the past few decades various American Baptist theologians and high-ups have loudly and enthusiastically embraced conservative Calvinism and opted for it. That apparently hasn't happened before in our history -- and I think the attraction may have more to do with the conservative part of conservative Calvinism than it does with the Calvinist aspects, actually. And there's quite a bit of conservative Calvinism in some nondenominational churches too. 

But I've never intended to say that was a majority of the American church or a majority of American evangelicals or fundamentalists......

It's certainly not a majority, but it is a trend, and it's continuing. Among other things, it has a strong hand in a possibly looming split of the SBC. It's not the majority there, but some very high-profile defections from the SBC and a lot of fury has come recently from some former SBC people who've suddenly started being conservative Calvinists and walking away. That guy Owen Strachan that BS interviewed the other day is one of those......So the hot trend is absolutely real -- but it's not a trend of many people. It's a trend among a bunch of big-name people. 

Now, Jer grew up a conservative Calvinist, and Bin did too -- I don't know if that was all the time but the Seewald's membership in Vision Forum was that, and that seems still to be a big influence with them. But Jer and Bin and their associates now find a fair number of high-profile Baptists on the same page with them. 

But as you say, currently the conservative evangelicals are finally seeing the downturn in numbers that all the less conservative churches have been seeing for many decades. And young people, especially, are defecting from it. ..... And it's a turn by some church leaders toward even more conservative stuff that's largely driving that defection...... (Nothing I've seen breaks this down to a role for conservative Calvinism, specifically, though -- the numbers and time aren't sufficient to produce stats on that) 

And I completely agree with you that Bin and Jer are almost certainly misreading the landscape -- although I think they'd say that actually what's happening is that churches are turning away from the true path and that they're ones who are following that true path, so there's no misreading about it. ...

And this idea is bolstered for them by the fact that quite a few prominent Baptists are coming over to their side. They see that as a huge vote of confidence in their view.....And I think it blinds them to the fact that regular people defecting from those churches really does mean something and will threaten their jobs -- because they believe that somehow Jesus will get people to see what's right, and then they'll be part of that New Great Awakening, which Jer has actually talked about aspiring to be part of.  

So my basis for thinking that Jer might face a dicey job future church-wise (and Bin, too, but we knew that...) is that he's so all-in on the conservative Calvinism stuff -  And all his performative look-how-young-and-hip-I-am stuff with the shoes and burgers is unlikely to fool people into ignoring the actual beliefs he spouts, once they get past the image and actually see the beliefs. 

 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Churchhoney

[GeeGolly]

It seems to me, somewhere in the hearts of the Fundy/conservative crowd, they want their preachers to be finically successful. All those mega church preachers and televangelists didn't get rich on their own.

[Churchhoney]

25 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

It seems to me, somewhere in the hearts of the Fundy/conservative crowd, they want their preachers to be finically successful. All those mega church preachers and televangelists didn't get rich on their own.

I think it's probably more general than that. It's human nature to want to be led by the successful -- it's built in biologically. If the leader of your herd gets less food than the leader of another herd, yours is the weaker herd and you might die. 

Any religious teaching that says there are more important things than being the most successful in your neighborhood is going against one of the bigger principles of human nature (not that there aren't also biological urges to share.....because there seem to be...). A few churches and a few religions try to do that, but ones with the most adherents through time tend to be the ones where the hierarchy has a lot of trappings of success, seems to me. 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Churchhoney

[Cinnabon]

2 hours ago, iwantcookies said:

There. What?

Her smug face? Drinking coffee? I don’t get it.

She. Is. Smug. All. The. Time. 

[Cinnabon]

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

All I mean when I say Calvinism is hot in Baptist circles is that, for the first time ever, in the past few decades various American Baptist theologians and high-ups have loudly and enthusiastically embraced conservative Calvinism and opted for it. That apparently hasn't happened before in our history -- and I think the attraction may have more to do with the conservative part of conservative Calvinism than it does with the Calvinist aspects, actually. And there's quite a bit of conservative Calvinism in some nondenominational churches too. 

But I've never intended to say that was a majority of the American church or a majority of American evangelicals or fundamentalists......

It's certainly not a majority, but it is a trend, and it's continuing. Among other things, it has a strong hand in a possibly looming split of the SBC. It's not the majority there, but some very high-profile defections from the SBC and a lot of fury has come recently from some former SBC people who've suddenly started being conservative Calvinists and walking away. That guy Owen Strachan that BS interviewed the other day is one of those......So the hot trend is absolutely real -- but it's not a trend of many people. It's a trend among a bunch of big-name people. 

Now, Jer grew up a conservative Calvinist, and Bin did too -- I don't know if that was all the time but the Seewald's membership in Vision Forum was that, and that seems still to be a big influence with them. But Jer and Bin and their associates now find a fair number of high-profile Baptists on the same page with them. 

But as you say, currently the conservative evangelicals are finally seeing the downturn in numbers that all the less conservative churches have been seeing for many decades. And young people, especially, are defecting from it. ..... And it's a turn by some church leaders toward even more conservative stuff that's largely driving that defection...... (Nothing I've seen breaks this down to a role for conservative Calvinism, specifically, though -- the numbers and time aren't sufficient to produce stats on that) 

And I completely agree with you that Bin and Jer are almost certainly misreading the landscape -- although I think they'd say that actually what's happening is that churches are turning away from the true path and that they're ones who are following that true path, so there's no misreading about it. ...

And this idea is bolstered for them by the fact that quite a few prominent Baptists are coming over to their side. They see that as a huge vote of confidence in their view.....And I think it blinds them to the fact that regular people defecting from those churches really does mean something and will threaten their jobs -- because they believe that somehow Jesus will get people to see what's right, and then they'll be part of that New Great Awakening, which Jer has actually talked about aspiring to be part of.  

So my basis for thinking that Jer might face a dicey job future church-wise (and Bin, too, but we knew that...) is that he's so all-in on the conservative Calvinism stuff -  And all his performative look-how-young-and-hip-I-am stuff with the shoes and burgers is unlikely to fool people into ignoring the actual beliefs he spouts, once they get past the image and actually see the beliefs. 

 

If they believe that people are already predestined to be the “chosen” ones or not, then how can they grow their churches much? Only a small number of people are in that predestined group, right?