The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

[Temperance]

I guess it's great that Jinger lost this opportunity due to her family connections. It does seem hypocritical if Rebecca Minkoff called off the event due to Jinger's family connections. Rebecca Minkoff is still a scientologist and from a family that has played a big role in scientology. Her father is Dr. David Minkoff. I posted that before, but I'm not too familar with scientology and I was having trouble explaining Dr. David's role in the organization. I don't quite understand what happened to Lisa McPherson or how she died. What I do know is that Minkoff is not just a mere member; he's high up in the cult. He allegedly did shady things for scientology and that's why his license to practice medicine was revoked. 

Jinger and Rebecca Minkoff both come from cults and were raised in families in cults. Neither one of them has separated enough from the group that I no longer associate them with their respective groups. 

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

Why do I picture Jeremy flailing around trying to find anything that'll eventually liberate him from having to act like a serious seminarian? 

....And I feel like harping again on this -- They're both lucky Jingle had to take down her photo with the Rebecca Minkoff bag.....

Because if Jer does have to continue down the seminarian road, who wants to see their future pastor's wife using her "influence" to urge people to attend an event whose main purpose is tempting them to buy designer goods at a 20 percent discount?

I don't care how social-media-positive people are. I think very few people want their pastors and pastors' wives -- who are very influential in the lives of a congregation -- to have "using my image to shill expensive goods" as their profession, or avocation, or whatever.  I still think that's completely unsuitable and that pretty much everyone, even Internet natives, would feel that way if it came right down to it. 

He's also lucky, because I predict eventually the truth will leak out about scientology and Rebecca Minkoff and her family.  It's not even a particularly Christian group (different ideology) and Jer's core audience would excuse it more if it were Christian.  I think most people are slowly coming to have an unfavorable opinion of scientology. 

[lilwhitelion]

Jeremy has removed the orgasmic post on his IG for the Earl Grey fonut.

[Sew Sumi]

3 minutes ago, lilwhitelion said:

Jeremy has removed the orgasmic post on his IG for the Earl Grey fonut.

No worries, the internet is forever, and all the fonuts posts are on this thread. 😀

[PikaScrewChu]

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

Why do I picture Jeremy flailing around trying to find anything that'll eventually liberate him from having to act like a serious seminarian? 

Jeremy strikes me as a more dressed up version of Dullard, although I question Jeremy's sincerity to Christianity. He seems about as aimless as the rest of his wife's family. He just happened to get lucky scoring Jinger and then becoming MacArthur's golden child. Otherwise he'd probably still be hanging out in his bachelor pad with a bunch of books. 

I truly believe Jeremy would "sell out" for a reasonable amount of money and fame. 

That being said, don't most people know about $cientology and wouldn't most of the Duggar fan base denounce it? I mean, I remember the uproar over the Websters and Halloween. Surely $cientology would be an even bigger uproar?

[Sew Sumi]

I have to wonder if someone DMed Jinger with the skinny on the Minkoffs, and that's what caused the cancellation? Of course, Minkoff could have also canceled Jinger for the same reason that fonuts did. This one could have gone either way, really.

[Oldernowiser]

You know things are out of control when your family’s belief system is too oddball for Scientologists...

[Churchhoney]

17 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

I have to wonder if someone DMed Jinger with the skinny on the Minkoffs, and that's what caused the cancellation? Of course, Minkoff could have also canceled Jinger for the same reason that fonuts did. This one could have gone either way, really.

I picture simultaneous emails going in both directions. 😁

[Temperance]

3 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

I picture simultaneous emails going in both directions. 😁

$cientology is very focused on their image. It's very possible that the higher-ups got a whiff of public disapproval for Jinger's involvement and told Rebecca Minkoff to cancel. They try to avoid negative publicity at all costs. 

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, Temperance said:

I guess it's great that Jinger lost this opportunity due to her family connections. I

Jinger didn't lose the gig due to her family connections.  She lost it due to the hateful beliefs that she apparently espouses since she certainly seems quite supportive of her husband who has personally spoken out online against civil rights for gay people as well as attended a seminary run by a guy who is a misogynist.  A guy whose a** Jeremy kisses at every opportunity and about whom he has never spoken a single word of disagreement.  I would presume that Fonuts contacted Jinger via her representatives, told her what they'd learned of her personal beliefs and asked if it was true. When she admitted the truth, she was out.  Just because Jinger hasn't publicly expressed her beliefs doesn't mean that she doesn't agree completely with her husband/headship.  Let's face it, if Jinger didn't let Jeremy run the show and nod in agreement at every word out of his mouth; the marriage would be over.

These businesses want to promote their products; they have no desire whatsoever to have their customers distracted by the hateful rhetoric spewed by their spokespeople.

Edited December 5, 2019 by doodlebug

[Churchhoney]

I think the Vuolos, the Minkoff stores and the Fonuts people have all learned something important: Don't just hand the car keys to your publicist. He/she may drive you over a cliff. 😁

Edited December 5, 2019 by Churchhoney

[xwordfanatik]

5 hours ago, doodlebug said:

No more cruel and unprofessional than if they'd used someone with hateful views to represent their company, completely alienating a large portion of their customer base..  And, IMO, it is far more cruel and unprofessional of Jinger and Jeremy to promote themselves and try to make money while hiding their views, that women are not as capable as men and that gay people do not deserve the rights that other citizens enjoy.  Free speech doesn't give one the right to not be judged on one's views and not be called out if those views are prejudiced and hateful.  Jinger and Jeremy need to own who they are and what they believe and accept the consequences for their ugly beliefs.

I wonder just how deeply their agency delved into Jinger and Jeremy before agreeing to represent them.  A simple Google search should've turned up plenty of information about them including the name of the seminary where Jeremy purports to study and what sort of beliefs are espoused there.  They signed them up before finding out who they really were and then tried to sell them as mainstream family-oriented Christians.  They are not mainstream, they're part of a small, but vocal, fringe group and their management needs to keep them in their very narrow lane.  It is surely obvious at this point that far too many people know who the Duggars and Vuolos really are and will speak out immediately against any effort to sanitize them.

I am honored to give the 25th like to this post. ❤️

[Sew Sumi]

28 minutes ago, Temperance said:

$cientology is very focused on their image. It's very possible that the higher-ups got a whiff of public disapproval for Jinger's involvement and told Rebecca Minkoff to cancel. They try to avoid negative publicity at all costs. 

Oh, I'm sure that Miscavige has a Sea Org member dedicated to watching over the Minkoff company's business dealings. That person could very well have told Minkoff to back off. 

That's kind of convoluted, though. Easier to believe that Jinger discovered $cientology and realized that she had to wash her hair Sunday evening.

[Oldernowiser]

There’s one other possibility...that the old white boys who currently own RFP got wind of Jinger’s gig and tightened up on RFP’s leash?

[BigBingerBro]

Or, maybe RFP got miffed that fronuts pulled the plug he decided to pull the plug on the entire thing....

[Oldernowiser]

8 minutes ago, BigBingerBro said:

Or, maybe RFP got miffed that fronuts pulled the plug he decided to pull the plug on the entire thing....

That’s possible, but it’s hard for me to picture RFP turning down ANY influencer gig, let alone one associated with an upscale brand.

He’s probably shedding tears into his silk pocket Rembrandt (85 €) as we speak... 

[Churchhoney]

Yet another possibility -- Somebody from the Minkoff stores finally realized how badly the Duggars' and The Masters' Seminary's "women must not be in charge of anything" mantra clashed with their longtime PR initiative that celebrates and encourages women executives and other female leaders .... and said "let's call the whole thing off" on that account. ...

That's something they probably use to take the spotlight off RM's cult background -- and connect with women who need a lot of work-and-going-out clothes and can afford them....That'd make it a bad idea to have a party hosted by strong proponents of the "keep 'em in the kitchen" philosophy. 

There are so many ways in which these three parties are a staggering mismatch that the publicists who put it together must have been drinking heavily when they thought it up. 

Edited December 6, 2019 by Churchhoney

[Oldernowiser]

There’s zero possibility that Mrs. RFP was going to that gig without RFP and Prop, both dressed to the nines. That may have been where the MacArthur dots got connected...

[Sew Sumi]

Jeremy was named in Minkoff's post. So yeah, Jinger was the initial draw what with the fonut and all, but he was going to be right there. 

[lascuba]

9 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

I agree the business should have vetted Jingle...but it’s really partly due to the Duggars bullshitting the public via TLC for all these years. The hateful, draconian parts of their faith were covered over with a thick layer of supposedly wholesome fun family values. Now RFP and by extension Jinger are doing the same thing. 

I am glad they fired whatever marketing company hooked them up with Jinger. A big part of this is on them, too.

This is true, but also? People have got to stop being so disingenuous. Because for all the bullshitting the Duggars do, they don't hide the fact that they are evangelical Christians, and that right there tells anyone who's paid the least bit of attention to the world over the past 20+ years what they need to know. It's ridiculous that people need to hear them say, "I think gay people are going to hell," in order to know that about them.

1 hour ago, Oldernowiser said:

There’s one other possibility...that the old white boys who currently own RFP got wind of Jinger’s gig and tightened up on RFP’s leash?

I think that kind of gig is something the old boys would approve of, because it's not blatantly liberal and is a good way to infiltrate the mainstream.

[PikaScrewChu]

34 minutes ago, lascuba said:

This is true, but also? People have got to stop being so disingenuous. Because for all the bullshitting the Duggars do, they don't hide the fact that they are evangelical Christians, and that right there tells anyone who's paid the least bit of attention to the world over the past 20+ years what they need to know. It's ridiculous that people need to hear them say, "I think gay people are going to hell," in order to know that about them.

I hang around a fairly liberal crowd. Quite a few people only knew the Duggars as those Christians who have a bunch of kids. Some even follow them on IG and not as a hate follow. Having to explain Jessa's belief system to my Jewish classmates was a good ol' time. 

There was a post somewhere on Am I the Asshole? about if the OP was an asshole for assuming people have basic knowledge about certain things. I think a lot of people here take for granted that the public at large knows exactly what evangelical Christianity is and what it entails. A lot of people truly don't know and you have to spell out exactly what it means.

It doesn't help TLC has put a shiny coat of paint on the Duggars to make them more palatable to a wider audience. Even people who disagree with their beliefs were watching 19K&C and following them on IG because "they can't be that bad". If TLC had portrayed them as is, well we wouldn't be discussing them on this forum. They wouldn't have gotten very far. 

[ouinason]

Being an "Evangelical Christian" does not mean you are a bigot, or hate women in power.  These guys do, but that's not something you wanna make a blanket statement about.  That's like saying all Christians think "the gays" are going to hell.  We don't, actually, we think that "the gays" who don't believe in Jesus are.  

[Zella]

10 minutes ago, ouinason said:

Being an "Evangelical Christian" does not mean you are a bigot, or hate women in power.  These guys do, but that's not something you wanna make a blanket statement about.  That's like saying all Christians think "the gays" are going to hell.  We don't, actually, we think that "the gays" who don't believe in Jesus are.  

Agreed. I know evangelicals who are gay-friendly. I even know some evangelicals who are gay. 

[Absolom]

Evangelical gets conflated with fundie and ultraconservative a lot.

[Sew Sumi]

I think evangelical and fundamentalist are being used interchangeably, when they are two different belief structures. Yes, there is a lot of overlap, but fundies are more hardcore than evangelicals. Jinger was raised IFB, and even though she's now non-denominational, there is nothing to indicate that her core beliefs have changed. She's always been a follower, and we know what her headship believes.

[PikaScrewChu]

1 hour ago, Sew Sumi said:

She's always been a follower, and we know what her headship believes.

Follow the money and see what you can get for free?

[mynextmistake]

11 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I do see the logic of setting up your infant's social media accounts if you are a celebrity in any capacity.  They do need to get the name locked down before some "fan" creates an account.  And then use it the bare minimum to keep the account current or whatever the term in social media parlance.  Posting on it all the time is going too far, but there are reasons why you would do it.  

My dog has a Facebook account, where “she” posts about things like eating Mini Mistake’s sandwiches right out of her hand and how hurt she was when the vet told her she was morbidly obese. She has almost as many friends as I do.

I’m not sure it’s fair to say Jeremy and Jinger hid their beliefs. I mean, I’m sure that Jinger didn’t go to the fonut people and say “I think gay people are all going to burn in hell,” but her beliefs are public record and since we have the Internet people can find them pretty quickly just by googling her name. I don’t have a problem with the company cancelling their arrangement — when your beliefs are abhorrent that’s the way the fonut crumbles, I guess — but I don’t think their failure to realize the problem sooner was due to any duplicity on Jinger’s part.

The fundamental problem Jeremy and Jinger are going to have when trying to advance their social media careers is that they’re just in the wrong place. I could see them getting brand endorsement assignments in the south or somewhere where more people share their beliefs, but California’s already full of influencers and doesn’t really have a market for the Jeremy and Jingers of the world. 

[doodlebug]

4 hours ago, ouinason said:

Being an "Evangelical Christian" does not mean you are a bigot, or hate women in power.  These guys do, but that's not something you wanna make a blanket statement about.  That's like saying all Christians think "the gays" are going to hell.  We don't, actually, we think that "the gays" who don't believe in Jesus are.  

And, there are plenty of Christians, including the Pope, who think that even people who don't believe in Jesus can go to heaven. 

[latetotheparty]

5 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

My dog has a Facebook account, where “she” posts about things like eating Mini Mistake’s sandwiches right out of her hand and how hurt she was when the vet told her she was morbidly obese. She has almost as many friends as I do.

I’m not sure it’s fair to say Jeremy and Jinger hid their beliefs. I mean, I’m sure that Jinger didn’t go to the fonut people and say “I think gay people are all going to burn in hell,” but her beliefs are public record and since we have the Internet people can find them pretty quickly just by googling her name. I don’t have a problem with the company cancelling their arrangement — when your beliefs are abhorrent that’s the way the fonut crumbles, I guess — but I don’t think their failure to realize the problem sooner was due to any duplicity on Jinger’s part.

The fundamental problem Jeremy and Jinger are going to have when trying to advance their social media careers is that they’re just in the wrong place. I could see them getting brand endorsement assignments in the south or somewhere where more people share their beliefs, but California’s already full of influencers and doesn’t really have a market for the Jeremy and Jingers of the world. 

I would totally follow your dog. 

[lascuba]

9 hours ago, PikaScrewChu said:

I hang around a fairly liberal crowd. Quite a few people only knew the Duggars as those Christians who have a bunch of kids. Some even follow them on IG and not as a hate follow. Having to explain Jessa's belief system to my Jewish classmates was a good ol' time. 

There was a post somewhere on Am I the Asshole? about if the OP was an asshole for assuming people have basic knowledge about certain things. I think a lot of people here take for granted that the public at large knows exactly what evangelical Christianity is and what it entails. A lot of people truly don't know and you have to spell out exactly what it means.

It doesn't help TLC has put a shiny coat of paint on the Duggars to make them more palatable to a wider audience. Even people who disagree with their beliefs were watching 19K&C and following them on IG because "they can't be that bad". If TLC had portrayed them as is, well we wouldn't be discussing them on this forum. They wouldn't have gotten very far. 

I'm trying not to break any rules by going into politics, but...if a liberal who pays the least amount of attention to politics is surprised by what religious Christians like the Duggars believe, then they are being willfully naive.

9 hours ago, ouinason said:

Being an "Evangelical Christian" does not mean you are a bigot, or hate women in power.  These guys do, but that's not something you wanna make a blanket statement about.  That's like saying all Christians think "the gays" are going to hell.  We don't, actually, we think that "the gays" who don't believe in Jesus are.  

9 hours ago, Zella said:

Agreed. I know evangelicals who are gay-friendly. I even know some evangelicals who are gay. 

I might be conflating evangelical and fundamentalism, but the fact remains that gay friendly conservative Christians are in the minority and suffering some major cognitive dissonance.

[queenanne]

12 hours ago, PikaScrewChu said:

I hang around a fairly liberal crowd. Quite a few people only knew the Duggars as those Christians who have a bunch of kids. Some even follow them on IG and not as a hate follow. Having to explain Jessa's belief system to my Jewish classmates was a good ol' time. 

There was a post somewhere on Am I the Asshole? about if the OP was an asshole for assuming people have basic knowledge about certain things. I think a lot of people here take for granted that the public at large knows exactly what evangelical Christianity is and what it entails. A lot of people truly don't know and you have to spell out exactly what it means.

It doesn't help TLC has put a shiny coat of paint on the Duggars to make them more palatable to a wider audience. Even people who disagree with their beliefs were watching 19K&C and following them on IG because "they can't be that bad". If TLC had portrayed them as is, well we wouldn't be discussing them on this forum. They wouldn't have gotten very far. 

The "basic knowledge about fundamentalists" category is certainly A Thing.  I'm frequently surprised by things that some people don't know are unsurprising about the Duggars (no "devil's food cake" - I legit have a family member who once told another family member that she should not buy "Heluva Good" brand cheese - no gambling for coin tosses or even reference to "luck" - be in church every time the doors are open - etc., etc.); and also much of the "Christianese" that people describe as "weird" (for clarification, I'm not surprised that people in general are surprised at the definitions of the Christianese; I'm merely surprised they've never heard the phrasings before).  (Aside: I've also been meaning to point out for the record, that our local LGBTQ congresscritter invited people recently to an LGBTQ meeting for "fellowship", and it was all I could do to avoid rolling on the ground when I encountered that flyer).

[ouinason]

That bit about not having to believe in Jesus to go to heaven made my brain hurt.  Like, that's the literal definition of being a christian.  Anyway, my general point was that, being christian is not hand in hand with hate, and there doesn't have to be cognitive dissonance for that to be true. 

Google will tell you that Duggars are not friends for the minorities though, that is quite obvious.

[doodlebug]

1 minute ago, ouinason said:

That bit about not having to believe in Jesus to go to heaven made my brain hurt.  Like, that's the literal definition of being a christian.  Anyway, my general point was that, being christian is not hand in hand with hate, and there doesn't have to be cognitive dissonance for that to be true. 

Google will tell you that Duggars are not friends for the minorities though, that is quite obvious.

I think the Pope and other Christians who believe that the way to heaven for them is through Jesus are simply saying that, it is not for them to judge, and that God decides who gets into heaven, not them.

How else to understand why God would make such a demand and then allow billions and billions of people to be born into the world into places where they will never hear about Jesus, where there are no Christians, where the Bible is unknown?  Are we to believe that, somehow, because we were born to Christian parents in a predominantly Christian society, that we are somehow better than those who do not have that background?  I refuse to believe in a God who would be so arbitrary and cruel as to exclude huge hunks of humanity from heaven for something over which they have no control.

[PikaScrewChu]

2 hours ago, lascuba said:

I'm trying not to break any rules by going into politics, but...if a liberal who pays the least amount of attention to politics is surprised by what religious Christians like the Duggars believe, then they are being willfully naive.

Or it's quite possible they've never been exposed to it? You don't see the JRods and Michelle Duggars of this world in my neck of the woods. Where I grew up? Sure. But here? Nah. I will be brutally honest, the people who I have encountered that are not Christian don't have the foggiest idea of what this all means. Is it problematic? That's a discussion for a different thread. But it's really presumptuous to assume people know. This sort of knowledge can only be gained by seeking it out themselves. 

14 minutes ago, queenanne said:

The "basic knowledge about fundamentalists" category is certainly A Thing.  I'm frequently surprised by things that some people don't know are unsurprising about the Duggars (no "devil's food cake" - I legit have a family member who once told another family member that she should not buy "Heluva Good" brand cheese - no gambling for coin tosses or even reference to "luck" - be in church every time the doors are open - etc., etc.); and also much of the "Christianese" that people describe as "weird" (for clarification, I'm not surprised that people in general are surprised at the definitions of the Christianese; I'm merely surprised they've never heard the phrasings before).  (Aside: I've also been meaning to point out for the record, that our local LGBTQ congresscritter invited people recently to an LGBTQ meeting for "fellowship", and it was all I could do to avoid rolling on the ground when I encountered that flyer).

Do you want to know how many times I got sent that frigging "angel pocket eggs" thing on Facebook with people asking if it was real? I wanted to scream. 

I actually didn't understand why yoga wasn't allowed in a fair amount of Christian circles until I started reading the theology the Yoga Alliance has in their curriculum for teachers. Then it clicked. No one could adequately explain to me why it wasn't allowed until I did the research myself. 

It's not even being willfully naive. The world works on "using your words" now. Short of saying it straight out, people are going to take things at face value. Which is why the Vuolos are the most dangerous type of fundies. They never explicitly say what they mean but they are just like us regular folk! Look at Jinger in pants. Felicity isn't constrained by skirts only. They only have one kid rather than parading a litter down the street! Jeremy says wine is ok. They're just like us!

I'd argue that most of the Duggar offspring and married-ins are actually halfway decent at appealing to a mainstream audience. The Vuolos are just trying the hardest.

If we want to make sure these people slink back into their hole, it's time those of us with the knowledge stand up to the companies they partner with. Which is what happened with Fonuts.

[BitterApple]

10 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

The fundamental problem Jeremy and Jinger are going to have when trying to advance their social media careers is that they’re just in the wrong place. I could see them getting brand endorsement assignments in the south or somewhere where more people share their beliefs, but California’s already full of influencers and doesn’t really have a market for the Jeremy and Jingers of the world. 

I couldn't agree more. SoCal is full of pretty people looking for fame and fortune. Jinger and Jeremy don't really stand out in any aspect, and their belief system isn't widely embraced in that area. I imagine young Christian women in L.A. would be more likely to mold themselves after hot-to-trot Gabby than cute-but-bland Jinger. 

As for Jeremy, he's between a rock and a hard place. He can't stray from MacArthur, because otherwise it's bye-bye subsidized lifestyle, but his position on gays and women guarantees he'll never make it big outside his niche. What's a grifter to do?

[TresGatos]

1 hour ago, ouinason said:

That bit about not having to believe in Jesus to go to heaven made my brain hurt.  Like, that's the literal definition of being a christian.  Anyway, my general point was that, being christian is not hand in hand with hate, and there doesn't have to be cognitive dissonance for that to be true. 

Google will tell you that Duggars are not friends for the minorities though, that is quite obvious.

I remember my dad talking about how some guys where he worked giving him a hard time about being a Roman Catholic because, allegedly, Catholics believed that only Catholics would go to Heaven. My dad told them that he was educated in Catholic schools and he was always taught that even if you were a native living in deepest, darkest Africa who had never heard the name Jesus Christ if you lived your life being the best person you could be then you had as good a chance of getting into Heaven as anybody else (of course most of us would go straight to Purgatory but that's another story) while Jeremy & co. believes that Roman Catholics, no matter how well you have lived your life, are doomed to Hell.

Edited December 6, 2019 by TresGatos
Confused Purgutory with Limbo - I am a very out-of-practice Catholic).

[JennyMominFL]

13 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I couldn't agree more. SoCal is full of pretty people looking for fame and fortune. Jinger and Jeremy don't really stand out in any aspect, and their belief system isn't widely embraced in that area. I imagine young Christian women in L.A. would be more likely to mold themselves after hot-to-trot Gabby than cute-but-bland Jinger. 

As for Jeremy, he's between a rock and a hard place. He can't stray from MacArthur, because otherwise it's bye-bye subsidized lifestyle, but his position on gays and women guarantees he'll never make it big outside his niche. What's a grifter to do?

And yet, I was , in the 90s , very briefly a part of a very Duggar like Fundie group. There was a large community there. Luckily I came to my senses quickly

[Oldernowiser]

Anyone else think it’s somewhat peculiar that MacArthur’s headquarters are in Southern California, of all places? Given what he preaches, he is swimming upstream at best.

[Churchhoney]

46 minutes ago, JennyMominFL said:

And yet, I was , in the 90s , very briefly a part of a very Duggar like Fundie group. There was a large community there. Luckily I came to my senses quickly

Well, there are definitely conservative fundie communities in every state. And because people with like ideas tend to cluster together, you're going to find some clusters of significant size everywhere. So if Jingle and Jer just wanted to find a like-minded community to hang out with, they wouldn't have a problem in California or pretty much anywhere else, for that matter. 

However, the proportion of conservative evangelicals in various states differs widely, and that makes a big difference for the kind of thing that Jingle and Jer are trying to do. 

The proportion of evangelicals in California is less than half of what it is in most southern states, for example. (And the California proportion is also considerably higher than in some other states -- California is about in the middle of the U.S. spectrum for proportion of evangelicals.)

(I know that "evangelicals' names a way bigger category than "people who endorse Duggar and/or Master's Seminary views, but the only data available tells us about evangelicals.....I assume that, while the Duggar-types are fewer in numbers everywhere, the state-to-state proportions are probably fairly similar to those for evangelicals generally.)

Anyway, back to Jingle and Jer -- If you're out looking for businesses who'll want you as a spokesperson for their brand, your chance of finding ones that will embrace Duggar/Master's Seminary ideas is much lower in California than it would be in a bunch of other states. 

Looking for business partners is always a crap shoot. And the odds against you are even worse if you need a partner who'll accept somebody very much out of the mainstream. 

As others have said, because they're involved in a crap shoot -- NOT just searching for like-minded individuals to hang with -- they face long odds unless they look for partner brands nationwide or head for a state where the proportion of conservative evangelicals is considerably higher. Seems to me their only real option is simply to be upfront about their views and explicitly look for partners who agree with them. .... Otherwise, they'll have broken romance after broken romance....

I'm pretty sure Jer dreams of being a Christian influencer who's admired by the many, not just the few, though. So he's got some decisions to make -- and probably some big compromises with his dreams and ambitions, too. 

Edited December 6, 2019 by Churchhoney

[rue721]

There are a lot of very fundamentalist Christians in California. There’s also a lot of unexamined misogyny. If you guys ever watched Real Housewives of Orange County back in the day, you’ll probably know what I’m talking about — patriarchal, fundamentalist Christians with wives trying their hardest to look like living Barbies, an obsession with materialism and money that gives off more than a whiff of the prosperity gospel, and “old fashioned” values that are really just creepy 1950s cosplay. It’s not the “mainstream” culture of SoCal, but there’s definitely a social niche for people like Jinger and Jeremy. Personally, I don’t think the Vuolos are even all that out of place in LA, although the Duggars and their “folksiness” maybe would be. Not trying to bash LA at all, I lived there for years in my twenties and loved it, just saying that there’s a big fundamentalist subculture there, just like lots of places, and Jinger and Jeremy would actually fit quite well into it and be pretty ordinary IME.

[Churchhoney]

3 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

Anyone else think it’s somewhat peculiar that MacArthur’s headquarters are in Southern California, of all places? Given what he preaches, he is swimming upstream at best.

It's a historical thing.

From the early part of the 20th century well into mid-century, many many evangelical Christians from the south, especially, but also from the Midwest and elsewhere, went to southern California mainly for financial reasons and jobs. The economy was prospering there as it wasn't in many other places. Aerospace, defense generally, entertainment, media, a bunch of stuff. 

As a result, southern California sprouted a very very large group of evangelical communities -- and for many decades they were the wealthiest evangelical communities by far. The first megachurches were there -- like the Crystal Cathedral -- and most of the original prominent radio and tv ministries. 

Because of its wealth and its connections to very major industries, the California evangelical community was unquestionably the driving force behind the fast-rising political and cultural clout of evangelicalism across America, and especially in the Republican party, throughout the 20th century. They pretty much singlehandedly bankrolled the rise of Ronald Reagan, for example. 

Over the past several decades, things have evened out somewhat, wealthwise, among evangelical churches in different regions. Some cities in the southwest and south, for example, have become wealthy in their own right. 

But for most of the 20th century, evangelical Christianity had a single base for its significant money and power -- and that was southern California.....

That's why MacArthur and others have grown used to considering themselves the true heirs of the Pilgrim Fathers, for example. They've been a major -- and for a long time were virtually the one -- financial power base for American conservatism for many decades.

So Macarthur, Jingle and Jer are definitely not swimming upstream when it comes to traditional cultural currents. 

However, if you're looking to be somebody's publicity spokesperson in today's America, that's a completely different matter. Only in some regions are local businesses able to hook up with and slather all over the public media the pictures of spokespeople with widely known anti-LGBQT or anti-women-as-leaders beliefs (or lots of other beliefs!) without risking economic consequences. (I'm not saying that many, maybe most, people don't still hold these beliefs. Just that not enough people now unashamedly embrace them publicly to allow them to work as advertising, when you're advertising to the whole public.) 

It's the "being a very public spokesperson" part that creates the problem for Jingle and Jer. They can find like-minded friends in southern California (or NYC, for that matter), and they could find jobs, both at organizations run by their co-believers and at ones where nobody agrees with their views.

However, their aim is to have their images be embraced as advertising for all kinds of businesses that serve the whole public -- "Look, this wonderful aspirational person loves our products! Come buy them!"

But their images don't work for many in the public when people find out about some of the things they actually stand for and believe......Even in the south, it wouldn't work for a lot of businesses to push Jer and Jingle's images as aspirational figures onto the public as advertising. ...

I doubt that Jer and Jingle understand how different it is to just be a person looking to hang out with or work with others, compared to trying to make a living as an advertising icon for someone else's products. Try being an advertising icon if you've written a book about your atheism. Or if you're over 60. Etc. 

Being accepted just in general and being accepted as somebody else's advertising icon. Two different universes. They're fine in one. But they don't work in the other except for a very small and select clientele -- and they have to stick with that clientele....

I suppose the popularity of the tv show is part of what creates this confusion for them. But they love us on tv!!!.....Not the same.

Edited December 6, 2019 by Churchhoney

[JennyMominFL]

3 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

It's a historical thing.

From the early part of the 20th century well into mid-century, many many evangelical Christians from the south, especially, but also from the Midwest and elsewhere, went to southern California mainly for financial reasons and jobs. The economy was prospering there as it wasn't in many other places. Aerospace, defense generally, entertainment, media, a bunch of stuff. 

As a result, southern California sprouted a very very large group of evangelical communities -- and for many decades they were the wealthiest evangelical communities by far. The first megachurches were there -- like the Crystal Cathedral -- and most of the original prominent radio and tv ministries. 

Because of its wealth and its connections to very major industries, the California evangelical community was unquestionably the driving force behind the fast-rising political and cultural clout of evangelicalism across America, and especially in the Republican party, throughout the 20th century. They pretty much singlehandedly bankrolled the rise of Ronald Reagan, for example. 

Over the past several decades, things have evened out somewhat, wealthwise, among evangelical churches in different regions. Some cities in the southwest and south, for example, have become wealthy in their own right. 

But for most of the 20th century, evangelical Christianity had a single base for its significant money and power -- and that was southern California.....

That's why MacArthur and others have grown used to considering themselves the true heirs of the Pilgrim Fathers, for example. They've been a major -- and for a long time were virtually the one -- financial power base for American conservatism for many decades.

So Macarthur, Jingle and Jer are definitely not swimming upstream when it comes to traditional cultural currents. 

However, if you're looking to be somebody's publicity spokesperson in today's America, that's a completely different matter. Only in some regions are local businesses able to hook up with and slather all over the public media the pictures of spokespeople with widely known anti-LGBQT or anti- beliefs, women-as-leaders without facing economic consequences. (I'm not saying that many, maybe most, people don't still hold these beliefs. Just that not enough people now unashamedly embrace them publicly to allow them to work as advertising, when you're advertising to the whole public.)

It's the "being a very public spokesperson" part that creates the problem for Jingle and Jer. They can find like-minded friends in southern California (or NYC, for that matter), and they could find jobs, including at organizations where nobody actually agrees with their views.

However, their aim is to have their images be embraced as advertising for all kinds of businesses that serve the whole public -- "Look, this wonderful aspirational person loves our products! Come buy them!"

But their images don't work for many in the public any more when people find out about some of the things they actually stand for and believe......Even in the south, they won't work for a lot of businesses if they pushed Jer and Jingle's images as aspirational figures onto the public as advertising. 

I doubt that Jer and Jingle understand how different it is to just be a person looking to hang out with or work with others, compared to trying to make a living as an advertising icon for someone else's products. 

Two different universes. They're fine in one. But they don't work in the other except for a very small and select clientele -- and they have to stick with that clientele....

I suppose the popularity of the tv show is part of what creates this confusion for them. But they love us on tv!!!.....Not the same.

 Agreed,I dont think a lot of people realize how conservative much of SoCal is. San Diego and Orange County have been historically very Republican until about 2016. The years I lived in San Diego, 1989 to 2004 the political spectrum was most definitely Conservative. 

Also, while the percentage of fundies may not be as high as the south, SoCAL is much more densely populated than most southern states. Arkansas has 3 million people in the whole state. Thats less than the population of San Diego county. San Diego, OC and LA county have almost 15 million people in total.  Im sure that adds up to a significant Fundie community, I know that as a homeschooler is San Diego I had a heck of a time keeping away from the Fundies 

ETA, i went down a rabbit hole.  According to Pew research 20% of the population of Californians identify themselves as evangelical. . That’s 20% of nearly 40 million people, so 8 Million Californians identity that way. As was pointed out though, not all evangelicals are Fundies . That still makes a good sized population of them.

Edited December 6, 2019 by JennyMominFL

[mynextmistake]

I was thinking about this last night I question how devoted Jeremy is to the fundamentalist Christian lifestyle. I think Jeremy wants to be famous and has developed a persona that he thinks will get him there — modern hipster fundie pastor with a pretty wife and photogenic young family. He tried the secular ladies man thing and the pro athlete thing and the grad student thing and neither of them got him anywhere, and his dad was offering a free shot at another route so why not take it? Then that route got him a free high-end house in LA and famous friends and a bigger platform for his social media posts. If he has to suck up to the likes of MacArthur to keep all of this, I have no doubt he will. He may even share MacArthur’s beliefs now, but if a better shot at fame comes by I could see him shedding those beliefs in a hot minute.

Where this becomes problematic is that I have absolutely no doubt that Jinger truly believes in fundamentalist Christian values she was raised with. She’s modernized her life and gotten rid of the Gothard aspects of her religion – she wears pants and shorts and real shoes, isn’t planning on having a baby every 16 months, and has moved to the ungodly Big City —  but those are just details, not true beliefs. Ginger and her siblings have spoken about how she really believes in the gospel and goes as far as proselytizing to strangers on airplanes.  She’s savvy enough to keep that stuff off of her social media for the most part, with the exception of the occasional Bible verse, but I haven’t seen anything suggesting her values have changed. It will be interesting to see what happens if Jeremy reinvents himself and Jinger feels a conflict with her beliefs.

[lascuba]

2 hours ago, PikaScrewChu said:

Or it's quite possible they've never been exposed to it? You don't see the JRods and Michelle Duggars of this world in my neck of the woods. Where I grew up? Sure. But here? Nah. I will be brutally honest, the people who I have encountered that are not Christian don't have the foggiest idea of what this all means. Is it problematic? That's a discussion for a different thread. But it's really presumptuous to assume people know. This sort of knowledge can only be gained by seeking it out themselves. 

I don't think you have to be aware of them specifically if, again, you've been paying attention to American politics. I certainly wasn't aware of the different levels of crazy in American christianity in college, but a certain intellectually challenged president provided a clue. And every single election cycle since, it's been abundantly clear which groups have been pushing discrimination as policy. I understand that lots of people are oblivious...my point is that I think that that obliviousness is absurd.

[PikaScrewChu]

12 minutes ago, mynextmistake said:

I was thinking about this last night I question how devoted Jeremy is to the fundamentalist Christian lifestyle. I think Jeremy wants to be famous and has developed a persona that he thinks will get him there — modern hipster fundie pastor with a pretty wife and photogenic young family. He tried the secular ladies man thing and the pro athlete thing and the grad student thing and neither of them got him anywhere, and his dad was offering a free shot at another route so why not take it? Then that route got him a free high-end house in LA and famous friends and a bigger platform for his social media posts. If he has to suck up to the likes of MacArthur to keep all of this, I have no doubt he will. He may even share MacArthur’s beliefs now, but if a better shot at fame comes by I could see him shedding those beliefs in a hot minute.

Where this becomes problematic is that I have absolutely no doubt that Jinger truly believes in fundamentalist Christian values she was raised with. She’s modernized her life and gotten rid of the Gothard aspects of her religion – she wears pants and shorts and real shoes, isn’t planning on having a baby every 16 months, and has moved to the ungodly Big City —  but those are just details, not true beliefs. Ginger and her siblings have spoken about how she really believes in the gospel and goes as far as proselytizing to strangers on airplanes.  She’s savvy enough to keep that stuff off of her social media for the most part, with the exception of the occasional Bible verse, but I haven’t seen anything suggesting her values have changed. It will be interesting to see what happens if Jeremy reinvents himself and Jinger feels a conflict with her beliefs.

I often wonder if Jinger would be friends with Satan himself if it meant not going back to the compound. Above all, Jeremy was a means to an end for Jinger. Yes she may be in love with him but look at the world she has gotten to experience versus her siblings. She's certainly gotten the experiences she wouldn't have gotten had she married someone like her sisters did or married into families like her sister-in-laws came from. And for all the talk that she is "tofu" she did seem to want the pants, the fashion, the city living, and being far away from her family. 

The question comes up if Jing would willingly ditch all of that for her beliefs.

[kokapetl]

16 minutes ago, lascuba said:

I don't think you have to be aware of them specifically if, again, you've been paying attention to American politics. I certainly wasn't aware of the different levels of crazy in American christianity in college, but a certain intellectually challenged president provided a clue. And every single election cycle since, it's been abundantly clear which groups have been pushing discrimination as policy. I understand that lots of people are oblivious...my point is that I think that that obliviousness is absurd.

The craziness is everywhere. 

[JoanArc]

42 minutes ago, PikaScrewChu said:

I often wonder if Jinger would be friends with Satan himself if it meant not going back to the compound.

 She did a devil’s food Fonut, that’s for damn sure.

Quote

Above all, Jeremy was a means to an end for Jinger.

 Just as much as she was a means to an end for him.  It’s a beautiful circle of exploitation. I think it’s ironic that all the married girls wound up Basically being some degree of exploited, while the married boys all seem happy enough with getting laid by their mates (balloon for symbolism).

[Zella]

Also, incidentally, I didn't think of this before, but the excellent discussion about the political variance in California reminded me that there is actually a pretty good migration of folks from the Ozarks out there, especially in the Bakersfield area. I know most people associate with Bakersfield and migrating to California with the Okies, but a lot of Arkansans went out there, too, during and after the Depression.

In fact, it is not unusual to meet people here where I live who have deep generational roots in Arkansas, but they were either born in Bakersfield or lived there as a child at some point. This is well up into the 70s. A lot of the folks eventually returned, but a lot of them didn't. I'd venture to say the ones who remained are likely in that evangelical category of Californians. 

That being said, I doubt they are trendy enough to be interested in the stuff Jinger and JereMe want to shill, and I doubt they are hip enough for Jinger and JereMe to want them as an audience. 

[GeeGolly]

There are people of every faith who are prejudice and assholes. And every faith teaches beliefs that might be (& some that should be) taken offensively. I think a big difference is what the faiths 'leads' with. It's my experience that Fundamental Christians lead with fear, distrust and hate, where most religions don't lead with that even if they embrace some or all of it. Also like most religions Fundamental Christians believe their beliefs get them into heaven, and, I learned, on these boards, that by sharing their beliefs they truly believe they're saving others' souls. Which brings me to one of the biggest differences I see with Fundamental Christians and other faiths - they openly share their "convictions" with anyone who will listen.

So I agree that Jinger & Jeremy are not hiding anything. Even if you take out scandals 1 & 2, the Duggars and Duggar adjacents have openly shared everything from their nonsensical beliefs to their hateful beliefs. On TV, in books, at conferences, through politics and on SM.

And lastly, one third of America share much of the same hateful bullshit that the Duggars believe, and not all believe the way they do because of religion. So at least with J & J, like Chick-fil-A, you know where their coming from. With many other influencers, schillers and companies, you have no idea. 

[Aethera]

Folks, Religion Discussion belongs in the Religion Topic. There is a big red note pinned right above the posting box that says if your post is not primarily about the Duggars (and in this case, Jinger and Jeremy) it does not belong in this thread. Further off-topic posts will be hidden.

Also, as always, political discussion does NOT belong on these forums. Doesn't matter if it's current events or the 1980s - let's move back to Jinger and Jeremy please.

[PikaScrewChu]

2 hours ago, JoanArc said:

 She did a devil’s food Fonut, that’s for damn sure.

 Just as much as she was a means to an end for him.  It’s a beautiful circle of exploitation. I think it’s ironic that all the married girls wound up Basically being some degree of exploited, while the married boys all seem happy enough with getting laid by their mates (balloon for symbolism).

I posted this in the latest episode thread. The public at large doesn't care all that much about the sons. It is all on the daughters and daughters in law.

For a cult as patriarchal as theirs, they rely on the women to do the heavy lifting. And no, I don't mean just pregnancy wise. The Lonely Js thread (up until Jed! 2020) should have been renamed Jana Duggar featuring the Lonely Js for as much discussion as the other unmarried sons generated.

Really strange how women are all of a sudden an asset when the public is more interested in them then the men.