S02.E20: Wrath of the Villains: Unleashed

[formerlyfreedom]

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Azrael is on the loose in Gotham City, which sparks Penguin's need for revenge. Meanwhile, Bruce enlists the help of Selina Kyle to help track down Professor Strange, as he evades arrest for his experiments.

 

[Primetimer]

Theo Galavan is determined to kill at least one of the people he vowed to assassinate. Good luck, pal!

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[Biggie B]

Penguin, Butch, and a bazooka FTW!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lantern7]

Oh, man. Azrael brought a sword to a bazooka fight.

Honestly, I know Gotham isn't the best show around . . . but damn, they sure know how to make a moment. Bazooka, rocket launcher, whatever you want to call it . . . it blew Theo to hell. Sure, he could have been brought in alive and traced back to Hugo, but that was such a satisfying moment. And I'm betting there wasn't much room in Oswald's pants.

Did Selina do something new with her hair? What little of it that peeked from her cap and goggles looked blonde. Funny that she and Ed recognized each other in the vents. Pity that Selina had to find out that her old friend is cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. Also . . . less celebrating, Ed, and more running.

Anybody else expect the GCPD players to baaaah as they approached Harvey? And how long is Jim going to play Non-Cop? It's getting a little ridiculous, even for this show.

ETA: "My name is Firefly." "So . . . are you gonna get canceled by Fox way too early?"

[HoodlumSheep]

• ALL HAIL CAPTAIN HARVEY BULLOCK!!!!
• FIREFLY!!!!! Yeeeesssss!!!!!!
• Alfred sword-fighting!!!!!!!!! And of course he gets injured. :p
• tricky Bruce with the shoes
• glad Tabby's alive
• awwww, butch! Love ya!
• loved the Ed/Selina meeting scene
• I liked Selina's straightened hair
• so Barnes is alive, after all? Except he's in critical/a coma?
• I laughed so hard when Penguin/Butch showed up and blew Galavan to smithereens...complete with crazy rock music. That was hilarious.

lastly, how come Jim's bullets had no problem piercing Azrael's armor, but they just bounced off when Barnes shot at him last episode?

didn't quite enjoy this episode as much as the past few weeks, but it was still good.

while I never cared for Fish, I'm oddly glad to see her back next week. Now I just need my sweet bby psycho Joker Jerome to show up and life will be good.

[Biggie B]

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Did Selina do something new with her hair? What little of it that peeked from her cap and goggles looked blonde.

 

It's always been dirty blonde, but until tonight, she always had it wavy. Now, it's completely straight and a little blonder. This pic is how she used to look.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Biggie B

[SoSueMe]

Not a Batman follower til Gotham, so everyone else probably already figured it out. But.... are Selina's goofy goggles mainly to give her a kitten ears silhouette?

I LOVED this episode!  Satisfying tiny (and some nice big ) tastes of every one, Ed, Selina Oswald, Harvey, Butch, Tabitha. .... Alfred held his own against Azrael. The air vent conversation between Selina and Ed was hilarious. Penguin is always terrific.

[HoodlumSheep]

8 minutes ago, SoSueMe said:

Not a Batman follower til Gotham, so everyone else probably already figured it out. But.... are Selina's goofy goggles mainly to give her a kitten ears silhouette?

Catwoman wears goggles in the comics (or most variations of her do).

Edited May 10, 2016 by HoodlumSheep

[thuganomics85]

Yeah, I automatically noticed Selina had a new hairdo.  Actually looked almost too good for a homeless, street cat, but hey, maybe Selina uses her plunder to visit a decent salon from time to time.

Theo's downfall was both hilarious and awesome.  First, with the sword fight which was decently impressive and it looked like Sean Pertwee and James Frain did a good portion of it themselves.  Then, Bruce pulling that nice little trick with the shoes, and ran Theo over.  Then Jim finally shows up and shoots him a few times.  But that's not enough!  So, that means Oswald strolls in, talks a bit, and then Butch blows up Theo with a rocket launcher.  Hell yeah!  And loved all of Theo's over-the-top "Uh oh!" facial reactions throughout it all.  I know he's not for everyone, but James Frain actually has pretty good comedic timing.  Also loved Alfred's little wave to Oswald/Butch at the end.

Don't worry, Bullock!  That speech was perfectly fine!  I would certainly be down with you being the new captain, if I didn't think that position was cursed, like the Defense of the Dark Arks position was on Harry Potter.

Sorry, Nygma!  Going to have to stay in the looney bin for a bit longer!

Firefly is back and so far gone, she's getting ready to torch poor Selina!

Two episodes left and I see that Hugo is getting ready to bust out his biggest card yet, next week.

[immortalfrieza]

Either Gordon got a really higher caliber pistol or finally remembered the concept of armor piercing ammunition, I couldn't really tell what gun he was using. Seriously though? After last episode consistently proved to the GCPD that normal bullets they usually use aren't going to cut it with Azrael's armor, it isn't until now somebody thinks to bring in a weapon that can actually shoot through that armor? I know, I know, idiot plotting and all just like so many other shows.

What is it about villains or even most heroes in masks that makes them much much less interesting the moment they take off those masks? As soon as Tabitha lifted Azrael's mask up he suddenly lost a lot of badassery points, especially since he didn't put it back down. Still, overall Azrael proved one thing about this show, it's that over the top crazy is what works with Gotham. Magnificant Bastards and Smug Snakes like Galivan was before just don't fit especially if they are supposed to last, even the relatively "normal" criminals like Penguin have to be unhinged as all hell to be interesting and entertaining.

I was starting to wonder whether Strange actually knew what security cameras were, and apparently he did because he somehow found out Selina was skulking about. The future Catwoman was surprisingly naive this episode with her whole "if they find me they'll just kick me out" speech. When you have every indication that the boss of an asylum is a psychotic madman that performs nutty experiments on people catching a kid obviously isn't going to result with a nice polite throwing out on your ass Selina.

[driedfruit]

I'm terrified of zombies thanks to playing Resident Evil as a kid and the Azrael stuff was high tension as hell. The bazooka ending was well earned and awesome. Ha! I love Gotham. Cat & Ed meeting was hilarious as well, but I'm pleased he's not getting out yet. Was the big guy baby Cat saw supposed to be Clayface? What's the count now for Strange's villain creation? Azrael, Mr. Freeze, Fish, Firefly, Mad Hatter possibly, and baby Joker?   

Happy to see Fish and I think we got a sneak of Court of Owls in the trailer. This season has been one hell of a ride, very excited to see how it ends. 

[The Wild Sow]

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Either Gordon got a really higher caliber pistol or finally remembered the concept of armor piercing ammunition, I couldn't really tell what gun he was using. Seriously though? After last episode consistently proved to the GCPD that normal bullets they usually use aren't going to cut it with Azrael's armor, it isn't until now somebody thinks to bring in a weapon that can actually shoot through that armor? I know, I know, idiot plotting and all just like so many other shows.

What is it about villains or even most heroes in masks that makes them much much less interesting the moment they take off those masks? As soon as Tabitha lifted Azrael's mask up he suddenly lost a lot of badassery points, especially since he didn't put it back down.

Well, for one thing Azrael lifting his mask left his FACE unprotected.

We've been watching Alfred, Jim, basically everyone with a gun who's gone after him, and yelling at the screen, "Head shot, Jim!" "Head shot, Alfred!"  Come on, guys......Head Shot!

[MarkHB]

5 hours ago, driedfruit said:

Was the big guy baby Cat saw supposed to be Clayface?

It looked more like Killer Croc to me. 

Spoiler

Clayface is coming next episode.

[Kathemy]

Strike that.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Telepath

[immortalfrieza]

2 hours ago, The Wild Sow said:

Well, for one thing Azrael lifting his mask left his FACE unprotected.

We've been watching Alfred, Jim, basically everyone with a gun who's gone after him, and yelling at the screen, "Head shot, Jim!" "Head shot, Alfred!"  Come on, guys......Head Shot!

Alfred even MENTIONED that he should shoot Azrael in the head, but he doesn't even try. In fact, on shows like this the concept of headshots in situations like this is just as apparently foreign to anyone as disabling shots. Everybody either plugs away fruitlessly at a well armored torso or fills someone they are trying to bring in alive full of holes because apparently the torso is the only thing on a human being that's even worth trying to shoot.

Edited May 10, 2016 by immortalfrieza

[darkestboy]

Loved it, another totally bonkers episodes.

Azrael's destruction courtesy of Oswald and Butch was pretty damn satisfying to watch see onscreen. The character had a fine enough run but here was a good one to end it on.

With both Barnes and Tabitha in comas, I honestly think one of them won't be making it into Season 3, if not both of them.

Wouldn't it be cool if Bullock became commissioner? I felt like this episode was hinting at the idea and I'm more than okay with it.

Gordon was fairly useless in this episode. Not annoying but he didn't really contribute much though.

Pretty sure we briefly saw Killer Croc in this episode. Loved the banter with Selina and Nygma as well. Wish there had been more.

The cliffhanger with Selina/Firefly as Strange and Peabody watched was great, 8/10

[Chaos Theory]

Love it how Gordon is outright stealing police cars now.

Harvey's speech was great.

Am I the only one who wants to see a spinoff with Selina and Nygma breaking in and out of building?  

Azrael plot was stupid and the least interesting thing about the episode.  Although the way they killed him was fun.  A Buffy villian got killed the same way.  Which is why every crime fighter/King Of Gotham needs a rocket launcher.  

Edited May 10, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[blackwing]

I wish we had seen some definite confirmation that Azrael is dead.  Did his body disintegrate in the explosion, or should there at least be some parts of his body left?  I can't imagine that there is anything left of him, but I'm not underestimating this Azrael's spirit powers.  Or Strange's abilities... he will probably be able to clone him from a fingernail.

I absolutely loved the meeting of Nygma and Selina in the air ducts.  Those air ducts already had me thinking back to Gorman and Vasquez in "Aliens"... and then the priceless exchange.... "Forensic guy?!?"  "Street trash girl?!?!"

[VCRTracking]

When Galavan stabbed his sister I thought "Noooooooo! She's too beautiful and awesome to die!" I'm glad she made it.

Nygma and Selina meeting in the vents was great.

Loved Bruce hitting Galavan with the car.

Damn, Harvey's now in charge of the GCPD? Oh boy.

[Delphi]

Selina is made of win.   I liked her straight hair,  I just imagine her using a gas station bathroom and a cheap flat iron to get street trash glam.

I love when Bruce is smart,  though it would have been a hell of a lot more smart to just hide in the batcave until Theo was dead dead.

I enjoyed the meeting in the air ducts.  That was funny the way Selina just kind of shrugged about trying to cash in on Jim. 

 

And for once a woman didn't die in the episode.  Unless you count Melinda Clarke's corpse just chilling at the table,  which gross Oswald,  you should clean up your mess.

[Kanner]

I laughed so hard at Galavan's death. It was great and anything that makes me think of Buffy is good.

This show just works for me on so many levels.

[Biggie B]

I didn't even care that we didn't see Barbara. There was so much else going on. If Tabitha doesn't make it, or if she stays in a coma or whatever, perhaps Barbara will become Butch's "partner." Not romantically, though, but rather, up to no good? Or whatever it is that Butch is doing. I do hope that Tabitha recovers. I would have no problem if I never saw Barbara again. What is there for her to do at this point?

[HoodlumSheep]

If it was a choice between Barnes or Tigress coming out of a coma, I'd choose Tigress. Enough awesome (or decently awesome) ladies have died this season (Essen and Mama Cobblepot--heck, even Mrs. Fries and Karen from Pinewood).

and I'm still miffed that the gotham twitter account was suggesting Barnes was dead (like they actually answered someone that he died in the line of duty, etc). Unless they're basically spoiling that he's not getting better.

the problem with Barnes and Tabitha is that their characters have currently hit a road block in my opinion. Barnes has to either retire/die eventually, and they can't keep doing the back-and-forth "believes Jim/doesn't believe Jim." Tabitha just lost her brother and the Galavan storyline, so they'd have to find a new storyline for her. She can't hang out with Butch and Babs forever--that'd be wasting her character. She's Tigress for goodness sakes. 

Edited May 10, 2016 by HoodlumSheep

[NorthstarATL]

My fave thing was Alfred waving at the Penguin and Butch as they left. I call shenanigans on Barbara being conveniently not there when Jim and Harvey called on Tabitha. Harley Quinn made her debut in the animated series, and it took several years for the character to be incorporated into the comics. I really want to see Miss Peabody the next time Professor Strange makes an appearance. She's grown on me.

[Kathemy]

Doux Reviews <> Gotham <> Unleashed

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Gotham continues right where it left off in the latest episode with the same exact tone and brand of crazy that it's trademarked over its second season. It's every bit as cartoonish as the last one, shamelessly rehashing past storylines and there's a cannonade of plot points setting a faster pace than any previous episode I can think of. 

Pretty tricky episode to review.

[Lee4U]

I loved Theo's drawn out "oohhh" when he laid eyes on the rocket launcher.  Hadn't expected funny right then but, it was.  And, the music just after Theo is smoldering before Penguin and Butch walk off - 

[Teitr Styrr]

Loved this episode! One thing I noticed was when Selina is in the air ducts, she starts sneezing, just the way my cat does! These quick little sneezes, like four or five in a row. It really reminded me of a cat sneezing. Heh.

[Kathemy]

33 minutes ago, Teitr Styrr said:

Loved this episode! One thing I noticed was when Selina is in the air ducts, she starts sneezing, just the way my cat does! These quick little sneezes, like four or five in a row. It really reminded me of a cat sneezing. Heh.

One of the  best things about Camren is how she's really, really incorporated the "physicality of a cat" in her role. It's in all her expressions, her stances and her movements. Of course it's hardly surprising that she excels as that seeing how she's a top-notch dancer, but it's a nice touch, and it really proves that she takes the role seriously.

[Snookums]

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 Also . . . less celebrating, Ed, and more running.

That's Ed's Achilles' Heel--he's always patting himself on the back before the job's done. When he was yelling in the air vent I was all SHUT UP, DUMMY, you haven't escaped yet! And you're still in a striped onesie! Although I assume that escape was arranged because why the hell else would you put an air duct a human could fit into INSIDE A CELL??

Loved, loved LOVED this one--fast paced, hilarious dialogue, lots of bits for everybody. Drew Powell as Butch is just killing it with what could have been a nothing role ("I'll eat more fruit!") and really conveys somebody who's in love with a dangerous person but still making stands when the crazy gets too close to home, i.e, Barbara and her lime hunt. I assume the line about kicking her out was simply to explain why she wasn't in the scene but I hope they don't just forget about her for the last few episodes. Erin Richards has the same crack comic timing and if TPTB can make Butch integral and funny they've got no excuse for Babs.

I loved James Frain's take on this version of Azrael--how he kept stopping and kind of looking off into the middle distance, like he was trying to remember his lines and then woodenly marching forward on whatever "mission" was front and center in his swirling melted Jello Pop of a brain. His shock, then world-weary expression on hearing Penguin's voice was brilliant. He brought it and then some--especially his "ohhhh-hhh" when he saw the bazooka.

Penguin didn't have a lot to do but he made it count, and by the by; thank you, writers, for finally getting him a damn umbrella and shutting up my husband's complaints in that department. The scene with Butch over Tabitha's body was just a miracle of economics--moved the plot forward, emphasized story lines, contrasted Butch's and Penguin's characters.

Selena's got to learn to quit thinking of herself as uncared for and unnoticed or she's going to get herself killed, cute new hairstyle or no. The whole "they'll just kick me out" thing is old school reasoning, Serena. These aren't random criminals or social workers or whatever, these are hardcore lunatics with grandiose dreams and they aren't looking at you as random or uninteresting. l mean, I get impatient with Bruce when he doesn't learn about not yelling and giving away your position, or running somebody over but then getting out of the damn car, and he's still fairly new at this stuff; you've been doing this your entire life. You must learn to think bigger.

However, her exchange with Ed and her kittycat sneezes were delightful and perfect. My husband and I both squealed aloud with delight.

I have come to the conclusion that Alfred is a Highlander. He cannot die. There is no other way he can have survived everything he's been put through physically in the last two seasons. Also, next time, you guys, make hiding in the Batcave your FIRST line of protection, not the last. Screw locking the doors and windows on this barn! You don't have any more of a security system then Butch does, quit pretending that the two of you running around this gigantic house is a feasible defense strategy!

Edited May 11, 2016 by Snookums

[Snookums]

Quote

However, when they get to Strange's office all of the records are shredded, and seeing as they have no warrant to search the rest of the premises, they are forced to leave. 

(from Telepath's review)

Without the documents, which were thoughtfully bagged and which they had every legal right to seize! This is what forensics is for! Piecing together shit! I mean, they could very well just be Strange's old cable bills but honestly, they are not even trying. Talk about sound and fury signifying nothing, you idiots. This is why nobody takes the GCPD seriously! Not only do they get invaded/massacred on the regular (When Harvey was giving his speech about how Azrael entered their house and killed their own, I was expecting the listening cops to say "and this differed from the other three in-house slaughters how, exactly?") but they never seem to do anything that might actually provide evidence or build a case or anything. I can't blame this one on Jim Gordon per se because as everybody is at pains to state, he's not a cop right now, but he's not helping any.

[jhlipton]

On 5/10/2016 at 6:10 PM, HoodlumSheep said:

glad Tabby's alive

lastly, how come Jim's bullets had no problem piercing Azrael's armor, but they just bounced off when Barnes shot at him last episode?

Yes! 

Before Azrael was protected by Heavy PLOT-armor, this time just by regular armor -- although the bullets that penetrated didn't seem to affect him all that much.

On 5/10/2016 at 6:41 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Also loved Alfred's little wave to Oswald/Butch at the end.

That bit was genius.  I wonder if Sean ad-libbed that.

18 hours ago, darkestboy said:

With both Barnes and Tabitha in comas, I honestly think one of them won't be making it into Season 3, if not both of them.

If only makes it, I'd rather it's the hot one!

16 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

A Buffy villian got killed the same way. 

Don't judge.  LOL

14 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

When Galavan stabbed his sister I thought "Noooooooo! She's too beautiful and awesome to die!" I'm glad she made it.

Loved Bruce hitting Galavan with the car.

Me too!

I could almost hear him thinking "Which one would make the best Batmobile?"

From Doux Reviews' recap:
 

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[O]nly three episodes ago, Alfred mind-tricked Bruce into breaking up with Selina under the pretense that he "shouldn't put that little girl in danger." Now as the plot dictates, he comes running back to her and not only does he enlist her for his cause, he also sends her into a life-threatening situation with no backup whatsoever.

And Karen was killed to reinforce this point, which makes her death even more unnecessary.

[Kathemy]

4 hours ago, Snookums said:

Loved, loved LOVED this one--fast paced, hilarious dialogue, lots of bits for everybody. Drew Powell as Butch is just killing it with what could have been a nothing role ("I'll eat more fruit!") and really conveys somebody who's in love with a dangerous person but still making stands when the crazy gets too close to home, i.e, Barbara and her lime hunt.

I couldn't agree more, and this is what's quickly come to endear me to this particular pairing, even when I initially just viewed it as "eh, we don't have much else to do with her and Butch."  

First of all, it's through her relationship with Butch that we've first got to see Tabitha acting like more or less a human person rather than a cardboard cut-out.

Second, Butch has a long history with bosses grinding him under their bootheels. Even if it was pretty clear that Fish loved him in her own way and even if I think Oswald came to be somewhat fond of him, they both treated him with utter condescension and he never made a stand against their craziness. I was expecting more of the same after the introduction and seduction scene with him and Tabitha, especially with the knife-lowering-the-drill point conveying a form of castration symbolism, but the writers surprised me in a good way. It also doesn't hurt that I actually believe in their romantic chemistry.

Their relationship has proven good and character-developing for both parts. I ship it!

Edited May 11, 2016 by Telepath
I'm Swedish. I can't spell.

[Amerilla]

7 hours ago, Snookums said:

Without the documents, which were thoughtfully bagged and which they had every legal right to seize! This is what forensics is for!

Yeah, but their chief forensics guy went insane, killed their chief records person, and framed their chief detective for murder, leading to their chief medical examiner jumping ship. With the commissioner in a coma after being stabbed by a zombie. Basically, the entire GCPD is now Harvey, and as much as I love me some Maximum Bullock, it's a lot of pressure, so I'm willing to cut them some slack. 

2 hours ago, Telepath said:

Drew Powell as Butch is just killing it with what could have been a nothing role ("I'll eat more fruit!") and really conveys somebody who's in love with a dangerous person but still making stands when the crazy gets too close to home, i.e, Barbara and her lime hunt.

That was wonderful. I noticed the sweat was just pouring off him during that scene, which made me worry a bit for Drew, but sort of worked in the scene, since it seemed like his entire being was crying. 

On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 10:51 PM, immortalfrieza said:

Seriously though? After last episode consistently proved to the GCPD that normal bullets they usually use aren't going to cut it with Azrael's armor, it isn't until now somebody thinks to bring in a weapon that can actually shoot through that armor? I know, I know, idiot plotting and all just like so many other shows.

I chalked that up to Jim shooting him primarily in the back, rather in the breastplate. This is "armor" presumably made by nutters in an asylum dungeon,  so it may not be up to code, as it were. But, also, yeah, it was  to make  "Azrael" look vulnerable (he bleeds) but tough to kill short of obliteration. A scene through which I laughed hysterically.

On a similar note, while Theo's sudden pivot from "kill Jim Gordon" to "kill Bruce Wayne" was a bit jarring, it did show that Strange's creatures still retain fragments of their old lives. Given the way the episode ended, what does that mean for Firefly and Selina?

18 hours ago, HoodlumSheep said:

and I'm still miffed that the gotham twitter account was suggesting Barnes was dead (like they actually answered someone that he died in the line of duty, etc). Unless they're basically spoiling that he's not getting better.

I saw that tweet, and I was really surprised when Barnes was shown not-dead. Maybe it was a snafu, but if it wasn't - BAD social media, Gotham! Don't lie to your fanbase! 

6 hours ago, jhlipton said:

[O]nly three episodes ago, Alfred mind-tricked Bruce into breaking up with Selina under the pretense that he "shouldn't put that little girl in danger." Now as the plot dictates, he comes running back to her and not only does he enlist her for his cause, he also sends her into a life-threatening situation with no backup whatsoever.

One of the reasons Bruce and Selina work better for me as characters is because they're no expectation that they're going to be consistent. They are 15-year-olds.  I can buy that Bruce will be mature and thoughtful right up until that moment when maturity and thoughtfulness run smack into something he really wants, and then all bets are off. I wasn't even totally surprised that he'd go full manipulation on her - your friend Bridget is probably down there. Again: mature enough to grasp Selina's complete dedication to the very few people she lets in her life, not always mature enough to recognize how dangerous that can be for her.

The only part that didn't play for me was him letting her go alone. That, unfortunately, was driven by the plot's need for him to be at Stately Wayne Manor for the showdown with Azrael and to set up the plot for the final episodes, where Selina is clearly going to be trapped in Indian Hills. They probably could have gotten around that by having Selina blow him off and then have her go anyway. That said, I also think her lines about how nobody really cared what happened to her was a plot anvil for next week, when the action pivots to a rescue.

I'm interested in seeing how Alfred reacts to what Bruce has done. I guess where I disagree slightly with Doux Reviews's review is that Alfred was purely invested in breaking BatCat up. Certainly that's part of it. But his argument was: look, I don't think this is the best relationship choice for you, but that's beside the point, because bringing her along on this journey is potentially going to get her killed. Alfred and Selina are cut from the same cloth: grew up in rough environments, extremely conscious of class and rank, completely loyal to those they care about, and willing to put themselves in physical danger to protect them. The difference is Alfred is a grown man  with a lot of life experience, and Selina is a "little girl." He can see the dangers more than Bruce or Selina can, as is evident from this particular episode.    

In a episode where pretty much everyone brought their "A" game, Selina was the standout. The scene with Bruce, the cat-like break-in to Arkham, the kitten sneezes, the exchange with Nygma, were all great. But I also think her dawning recognition of the horrors of Indian HIlls was excellent. She generally hasn't shown fear, and you could really see her start to process that she was in way over her head. While I don't think Firefly is going to barbecue her, I do wonder how many of her nine lives she's going to use up escaping this mess. 

Edited May 11, 2016 by Amerilla
Fixed sentence fragment.

[Delphi]

8 hours ago, jhlipton said:

Don't judge.  LOL

Don't Judge?   Please tell me that was on purpose. 

[Kathemy]

5 hours ago, Amerilla said:

I'm interested in seeing how Alfred reacts to what Bruce has done. I guess where I disagree slightly with Doux Reviews's review is that Alfred was purely invested in breaking BatCat up. Certainly that's part of it. But his argument was: look, I don't think this is the best relationship choice for you, but that's beside the point, because bringing her along on this journey is potentially going to get her killed. Alfred and Selina are cut from the same cloth: grew up in rough environments, extremely conscious of class and rank, completely loyal to those they care about, and willing to put themselves in physical danger to protect them. The difference is Alfred is a grown man  with a lot of life experience, and Selina is a "little girl." He can see the dangers more than Bruce or Selina can, as is evident from this particular episode.

I didn't mean to suggest it was purely for that reason either. What I do think, however, is that Alfred is motivated by his concern over Bruce above all. As I mentioned in another thread, I think Alfred believes that if Bruce were to get Selina killed, it would break him. Take note to how nobody argued against her being a part of the rescue mission in 'Worse Than A Crime' based on her age, up to and including fighting ninja thugs to the death. Again that's because Alfred's top priority is saving Bruce's life. Selina's safety is only truly important to him when it matters for Bruce's happiness and sanity. That doesn't even mean Alfred doesn't like her. Nobody but Bruce really matters to Alfred.

[Danielg342]

I would have watched this yesterday but I fell asleep rather early. That, and I have my own writing I'm (still) procrastinating on.

This episode? It was a blur...a visually engaging blur. A crazily, but visually, engaging blur. Was it fun? At times. However, I feel like the hour passed with little effect.

I mean, show, we know by now that Jim Gordon and Bruce Wayne make it out alive. There's no way around it. Theoretically, this show could kill off everyone else- even the Penguin- and get away with it, with varying degrees of difficulty. As Sal Maroni showed, nothing about the canon characters is completely set in stone, and, when it comes to the villains at least, there's some wiggle room- however small- that perhaps you can say someone else took up their identity.

Yeah, it would be completely off the wall, well out of left field, a huge stretch and whatever other hyperbole you can think of to rationalize that, say, Edward Nygma isn't The Riddler or that Selina Kyle isn't Catwoman, but it could be done. There'd be lots of howling, for sure, but...at the end of the day they are "the villains" and not the chief antagonist after all. So I could see maybe some people getting behind "someone else becoming The Penguin". Not a lot, but some.

...but Gordon and Wayne?

This was a series billed as "James Gordon's rise to Commissioner", so Gordon is through to the end. As for Bruce Wayne...well, even people who are not Batman fans know that Bruce Wayne is Batman...so you get rid of Wayne entirely at your peril.

So watching an episode where Azrael is targeting both Jim and Bruce was an exercise in futility. There's no drama, there's no tension, there's no mystery...you know Azrael is going to fail, so all the drama about "are they going to make it" falls flat. Very flat. The show tried very hard to rectify that with the rocket launcher ending, but it wasn't enough. Way too much was made of the fake peril that Jim and Bruce were supposedly in, with nothing really being done to explore it or play with it in any meaningful way.

I would have liked this more if the show did something like Bruce finding some way to scramble Theo's mind and perhaps "cure" him and turn him into a valuable witness against Hugo Strange. There has to be a treasure trove of material to use in exploring the mind of someone who thought he was dead only to be revived...there isn't anything more twisted than that. However, the show really dropped the ball...it's like they thought the visual of all these freaks was enough when, really, it's cool for a few seconds and then it becomes meaningless. If I wanted to watch freaks running around aimlessly attacking people, I'd watch Dawn of the Dead.

It's the same feeling I have with the Selina storyline...what a cliffhanger there, having Bridget- sorry, Firefly- shoot Selina. You know Selina will make it, so why pretend that she's in some kind of peril. Also...Hugo Strange anticipated her attempting to rescue Bridget? Seriously? I appreciate that he's "one step ahead of everyone", but he had to be psychic to do what he was able to do. Not just with Firefly but with the police and the shredding of documents...they don't announce warrants beforehand.

Unless Gotham does it differently...which is one more reason why their police officers suck.

Also...as one commenter noted: Ed, less celebrating, more running!

I did like Oswald in his limited appearances here, and I like that it was his friend, Butch, who avenged his mother's death and got the (second) Galavan kill.

Butch crying over Tabitha too...I felt bad for him. It does bug me that Tabitha seems to only be there to get Butch into action but at least she's not dead.

The Bullock Meter- 7.

Great start to this episode...Donal Logue knows how to bring it, and bring it hard. Bullock was kicking ass and taking names and then doing it all over again...and then doing it all over again. Oh it was fun. Loved his speech at the beginning too...Bullock thinks he's not captain material but that was about as inspiring a speech as I have ever heard. It moved me to tears. Really. It's more proof that Logue should have his own show...he truly is a captivating presence.

(I've probably said that too much this season...but, it's true and I'll keep saying it until someone listens to me)

Now, it only gets a "7" here because...well, as great as Bullock was at the start, halfway through he disappeared. Why? Glad he didn't get killed by Azrael (plot armour there, methinks), but if Bullock is going to be the head police officer on this show, he needs to be seen taking charge more often.

Episode Grade: C-. Engaging, but not very fulfilling. Filler at best.

[jhlipton]

15 hours ago, Delphi said:

Don't Judge?   Please tell me that was on purpose. 

Absolutely!  That was a great ending to the Judge plot.

Edited May 12, 2016 by jhlipton

[Delphi]

While I agree that there was no way that Strange would have any idea that Selina was going to break into Arkham and that was absurd.   I have to mention that it's been all over the news that the dead mayor just killed a bunch of people in the police station and that his body was sent to Arkham.   Right after another dead man was seen running around with a freeze gun,  his remains also at Arkham.  Strange would have to be am idiot to not anticipate the cops getting a warrant. 

 

I also don't mind the characters being put into these situations that I'll know they'll escape from.  It's the same for comics or other shows.  I know Supergirl isn't going to die,  just like I know the Flash isn't going to die.   I watch to see how they'll react and escape these situations. 

[Danielg342]

2 hours ago, Delphi said:

1) While I agree that there was no way that Strange would have any idea that Selina was going to break into Arkham and that was absurd.   I have to mention that it's been all over the news that the dead mayor just killed a bunch of people in the police station and that his body was sent to Arkham.   Right after another dead man was seen running around with a freeze gun,  his remains also at Arkham.  Strange would have to be am idiot to not anticipate the cops getting a warrant. 

 

2) I also don't mind the characters being put into these situations that I'll know they'll escape from.  It's the same for comics or other shows.  I know Supergirl isn't going to die,  just like I know the Flash isn't going to die.   I watch to see how they'll react and escape these situations. 

1) Fair point. It may have been a bit too fast in shredding the documents, though.

2) I think what I would like to see more of is how the peril affects the person and what they learn from it. Maybe it's just me, but I don't ever see Jim or Bruce truly be affected or grow from their peril...it just feels like the same "will they make it?" storyline.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Danielg342
Phone issues

[Kathemy]

What I took from it was that Selina was simply really unlucky that Edward chose to break out using the ventilation shaft at the same time as she was breaking in, thus putting security into overdrive. Not that it explains everything but for heaven's sake, I can give the show a little dramatic license.

[JTMacc99]

Penguin and Butch easily could be the moment that I'll remember when the show comes back next fall and I wonder to myself if I'm excited about Gotham.  All I need to do is remember laughing for a straight minute, and I'm pretty sure I'll be excited about what kind of crazy I'm going to get.

Edited May 13, 2016 by JTMacc99

[Timetoread]

I'm late so I won't say much.  Loved the rocket launcher - it never gets old (Buffy, Walking Dead, Gotham).  There is a concept that men keep in their heads that is so stupid - fair fight.  If you are fighting to the death (as in, if I don't kill you, you WILL kill me), why drag it out trying to keep things even?  Figure out what is a guaranteed kill and go for it.  That is why I love Penguin, he's not winning any fist fights, but he wins fights all the time because he comes prepared to win.  Loved it.

While I enjoy a lot of the show's hijinks truthfully I'm only still in it for one reason - Jerome.  For three episodes Gotham was must see tv and we were all screaming to get that guy an Emmy.  Pay the actor whatever he asks for but bring him back.  Batman needs the Joker and Gotham needs Jerome.

[jay741982]

On 5/10/2016 at 1:43 AM, driedfruit said:

I'm terrified of zombies thanks to playing Resident Evil as a kid and the Azrael stuff was high tension as hell. The bazooka ending was well earned and awesome. Ha! I love Gotham. Cat & Ed meeting was hilarious as well, but I'm pleased he's not getting out yet. Was the big guy baby Cat saw supposed to be Clayface? What's the count now for Strange's villain creation? Azrael, Mr. Freeze, Fish, Firefly, Mad Hatter possibly, and baby Joker?   

Happy to see Fish and I think we got a sneak of Court of Owls in the trailer. This season has been one hell of a ride, very excited to see how it ends. 

I looked at who that prisoner was and it looked like possibly Killer Croc one of his eyes was completely green and his face had scars down the one side 

[greyhorse]

Guess the writers and the actor portraying Galavan were doing something right, because I couldn't stand him.  So so happy that he got blown away by the bazooka.  Now hoping that strange doesn't pick up his pieces and find a way to resurrect him again.

I'm sad that we'll never get to see Bruce actually become Batman, given the premise and timeline of the show...

[Kathemy]

Never say never. Lots of stuff could happen.

[Danielg342]

I understand the final scene will be Bruce donning the Batsuit for the first time.

[Kathemy]

This is what they are working towards but I believe that would assume they get at least six seasons and you can't confirm anything like that. It's equally stupid to claim that "they don't have a chance." We'll just have to see. And if we are making the (admittedly slightly unlikely) assumption that Gotham will pick up viewers and start looking like a proper powerhouse in years to come, I could see them wanting to extend it well into Batman territory, spinning it off or changing the name of the show. The idea that "there will never ever be another live-action Batman show on television" is just that - an idea. It all depends on what makes sense for the actors involved.

On 5/16/2016 at 8:14 PM, Danielg342 said:

I understand the final scene will be Bruce donning the Batsuit for the first time.

[Ailianna]

On ‎5‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 8:20 AM, immortalfrieza said:

In fact, on shows like this the concept of headshots in situations like this is just as apparently foreign to anyone as disabling shots.

Head over to The Walking Dead boards for how difficult headshots are in real life.  It's a small moving target--the reason anyone who has been taught any kind of combat shooting goes for the torso is that it's both the largest, most lethal area to hit, and it's actually the most likely to disable the subject.  The myth of hitting an arm or leg is actually a myth, and it's not particularly disabling either.  I thought it was actaully very realistic that they would all end up going back to their training to aim for center mass.

I got a little behind, but I love this show, and I enjoyed most of the points mentioned above, including the Nygma/Cat scene.  Awesome!  I still like Jim though, and I still think of him as the hero of this show--some of it is about him becoming who he will be, just as much as Bruce or Selina, except that he's not becoming a traditional comic book character.

[Camera One]

Ed and Selina in the air ducts was the best scene.  

Azreal chasing everyone became a little tiresome, but it was satisfying when he got hit with the bazooka.  I mean, Bruce hitting him with the car, and then getting out?  Turn around and hit him again.

I usually hate Tabitha but she actually told Jim about Bruce which made me more inclined to not wish her dead.  I felt bad for Butch too.

[mtlchick]

Finally catching up.  So...a lot of stuff happened. 

I have to say my favourite part was the music for when Azaral finally met his maker via bazooka.  99% of the score on this show is dark, moody and sort of creeps in and out.  Here it was loud, bombastic, lots of horns...just so over the top, like the death itself.  BIG change of pace for this show and I rewound it twice because of it.

 

Bye James Frain.  I have to said, the semi goatee and black suit was really doing it for me.