S06.E01: The Red Woman

[Zanne]

I interpreted that scene as she was taking off the necklace and laying down to die, which sent me into cat - startling fits of despair because I want Jon Snow back

 

I thought she was going to give her life for Jon Snow's, and part of that was removing her youth so she could pass it on to Jon.

[Lady S.]

I reserve my sorrow for poor Ghost. He was howling in his 'cage' as if he knew something was deadly wrong. 

 

So am I to assume that Brienne actually did kill Stannis? There was some speculation that that was a bit of a cliff hanger as it was shown with Brienne's sword on the downstroke but we never saw Stannis dead.

Ghost probably heard the whole murder go down, looked like his pen was close by.

Yes, it was a weird shot, but Dillane and Christie have confirmed that Stannis was killed.

[Muffyn]

Oh, I don't know.  I sort of like The Snakes wacky adventures.  They need their own spin-off.

 

That would be perfect because then I could just not watch it.  The storyline and the actors bore me.

 

Brienne and Pod to the rescue!  

Didn't look like a normal old woman to me, if that was what they were going for, could've just used an elderly body double instead of whatever prosthetics were going on there. I think the implication was that she'd prolonged her life well beyond a natural span. (The Gollum visual comparison above is pretty apt imo.) If she can live indefinitely, bringing someone back from the dead doesn't seem out of bounds. Nothing to say she can't if she's never tried it before.

And no, you're not the only one who ships Sansa/TriPod. Decent and near her own age is a rare combination around Sansa.

 

The prosthetics on the red woman were terrible.  Her abdomen looked hard and shiny.  A body double painted and lighted to look ancient would have worked better.

 

Sansa and Pod would give her a chance to actually enjoy sex. 

[TV Anonymous]

I have to laugh at the Palace Guards at Dorne. Their Prince and ruler is murdered in front of their eyes and they do not even lift a finger to prevent or to apprehend the culprits. What good are they for, again?

[bluvelvet]

I think the palace guards were in on it.

[TrininisaScorp]

Oh, show!  I missed you!  That hour (50 mins...I'm watching you HBO!) sped by so quickly.

 

I loved that we got some answers (e.g. Myrcella did die, Sansa/Theon survived the fall), but some stories got deeper (e.g. Dany kidnapped, Jon still dead).

 

I can't wait for Allister to get his.  I really can't.  Ghost howling was painful.  I hope Ed gets to the Wildings and those guys pull through for Jon.  None of it is a "sure thing", but I feel a lot better about everything with Ser Davos and Mel (the look at the end was CRAY) being there.

 

The Dothrakis were so damn funny.  Those line readings were awesome...from Dany's guards, to the Khal and his right hands and wives.  We couldn't stop laughing.  Meanwhile, Dany just keep jumping into the fire.  One step forward (no rape!), two steps back (banishment for widows in Vaes) with this one.

 

In general, there was good humor tonight.  I also liked the convo between Daario and Jorah for that reason.  This is dumb question:  Can't they just cut Jorah's infected arm off?!  Maybe too much Walking Dead for me?

 

I loved the filming of Sansa/Theon making a run for it.  I was cold and scared watching it.  Well done, show!  I was also super happy to see Brienne and Pod.  The oath between Sansa and Brienne was nicely done and hopefully this alliance is a break for Sansa from the bullshit she's been dealing with.

 

I still don't care much about Dorne, but I get a feeling Indira Varma's character (I just don't remember her name) may be better suited to deal with the shitstorm coming their way from the Lannisters than the diplomat.  It would be foolish for the crown to move against a strong group like the Dornish at this tenuous, but the Dorns killed the Lannister princess.  And Jamie and Cersei, who was surprisingly sympathetic (dy, Lena!), are going to be on the warpath.  

 

Oh, I forgot how much I didn't like the head crazy religious guy (I love J. Price, though) until his scene with Maegary.  Keep your head up, girl.  Not unlike real life, I can't wait for the holier than thou folks to get theirs.   

 

I missed this show and can't wait for the story to unfold.

[Conan Troutman]

I have to laugh at the Palace Guards at Dorne. Their Prince and ruler is murdered in front of their eyes and they do not even lift a finger to prevent or to apprehend the culprits. What good are they for, again?

I thought that letter would read "Hi, Doran. You're about to get stabbed. Greetings, Ellaria."

Why did Areo Hotah just drop dead? Yeah, Tyene stabbed him, but unless it was in the heart, you don't drop like a wet sack of Jorah's dreams.

[Ambrosefolly]

I think the palace guards were in on it.

Which is stupid because Doran has never shown to be particularly cruel or weak, just disabled. Why would they side with this crazy bitch and some bastard offspring when you have a more level headed ruler? Doran came across as one of those This is the ruler we have been waiting for. Unless they are itching to get their asses killed because her lover didn't know to finish the job when he had the chance. What happened to Jon Snow made a lick more sense then this.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Ambrosefolly

[rozen]

Oh, I don't know.  I sort of like The Snakes wacky adventures.  They need their own spin-off.

 

Arya, on the other hand, I totally agree with.  She got herself in the mess.  And the guy she went to join turns out to be an entity that can take the form of any dead person but really likes to take the form of a fourteen year old girl  who enjoys beating the shit out of her.  God, it is such an annoying storyline.

 

Pretty sure the girl is another trainee, she was washing a body when Arya was first brought in by A Man. She always came off as resentful towards Arya, imo, so it doesn't surprise me that she goes hard any chance she gets. And, tbh, it's fair training for what Arya is hoping to pull off. Bitter trainee left her alive, with a weapon, and a warning of when she's coming back. Arya's kill list will do none of those things.

 

Losing the hearts of your people is dangerous, as Tyrion and Vaerys are witnessing first hand in Mereen. Looks like the Dornish prince was on the exact same path. If Dorne falls under the "high-spirited and proud" stereotype it appears to, it doesn't matter 1 whit that Starting Shit with the Lannisters is the path to disaster. All the populace sees is that they're down 2 royal Martells at the Lannister's hands, and he's hiding up in his castle doing nothing.

 

I loved Ellaria's daughters killing Tristian. That's exactly what's needed if they're about to go against Westeros. He was ready for an honorable duel to the death, and the elder sand was like "whoo, Betsy is lined up for a perfect kill shot, let's do this!" She looked so pleased with her handy-work too, it was great. Her sister's outrage was priceless. I was actually expecting the third sister to be there and pull her pretend-to-get-them-off-then-poison-them routine. HBO is really turning down the boob quota in this episode!

 

Ugh, Dany. Just shut up and then light the tent on fire when he came to rape you. Perfect cover to run away! Instead she tried to pull rank and got punked by those two Khal wives. Or, if she hadn't locked two of her babies in a freaking basement, she could have just flambed the entire horde and looked cool while walking away from explosions.

 

What, exactly, is Jorah planning to do once he finds Dany? He literally can't touch her to pull her to safety or anything. That stoneskin looks like it's spreading very rapidly, how soon afterwards to people go crazy? Daario's sniping was hilarious, it was like a little puppy trying to agitate an older dog. Jorah's not interested man, Jorah's dealt with more shit than you can ever imagine. All he wants is an airkiss from his Khaleesi before he drops dead. Why didn't they bring some of the Dothraki from her horde with them anyway? They have got to be bomb trackers, and probably would have known the politics of rescuing Dany from the widows house.

 

Melisandre post-necklace looked 100% like CGI. She looks like she's a freaking thousand years old. What kind of crisis of confidence would you have if you've spent at least a few lifetimes trying to find your King, only to find out you called it 100% wrong? Not sure what Davos thinks she can do though. Shadow Baby was a short-duration, single-target spell. No evidence that Red Priests can ran down massive AOE damage, which is what's needed now.

 

Love that everyone in that room knew Allister was full of shit and would murder them first chance he got. How long until someone else in the watch decides to apply his logic and wipe out that entire sniveling excuse for "leadership"? Has it been so long since last Winter that they literally do not understand the danger they're in? If you're alive, you're on the same side, dumbasses. Wildling vs other is the least of your concern. I hope that cannibal Wildling comes and eats Olly, that smug punk. Ugh.

 

Man, Ramsay stays not getting Roose's warnings. You're supposed to torture nobodies, Ramsay. All Ramsay hears is "murder more, flay more, make more people fear me more so this doesn't happen again." Fat Walda is sitting up there thinking this is the best gig ever. Because Roose looooves her? No, because he can't afford to piss off Walder Frey right now. All Ramsay had to do was be not totally heinous and Sansa probably would have stayed put and ended up pregnant and stuck*. Idiot.

 

Well Fat Walda may also think everything is awesome because she's a Frey. That place is Craster's Keep the sequel. 

 

Things are looking bad for Cersei right now. I don't see how she's making it out of this. But I do know that she is going to fuck up Septa Una before this game is over. Margaery might join in too. Get some sisterly bonding going.

 

*Though I totally expect for her to end up pregnant and on the run because this show is horrible like that.

Edited April 25, 2016 by rozen

[Ambrosefolly]

I loved Ellaria's daughters killing Tristian. That's exactly what's needed if they're about to go against Westeros. He was ready for an honorable duel to the death, and the elder sand was like "whoo, Betsy is lined up for a perfect kill shot, let's do this!" She looked so pleased with her handy-work too, it was great. Her sister's outrage was priceless. I was actually expecting the third sister to be there and pull her pretend-to-get-them-off-then-poison-them routine. HBO is really turning down the boob quota in this episode!

I found it fucking disturbing. The kid was their first cousin and be all accounts seemed like a decent, thoughtful human being, and they are cracking jokes and literally stabbing him in the back, when he was willing to fighting them with a measure of honor. They have as much honor as Ramsey. Either he was secretly a Joffery/Ramsey to them, or these girls are lacking in loyalty or any type of familial love, except for their eccentric daddy, who probably spent most of his time fucking Essos and Westros than with them. At this point, I don't think Westros or Essos are worth saving when any human being worth anything are being killed in one cruel fashion or another. #TeamWhiteWalker.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Ambrosefolly

[GrailKing]

Which is stupid because Doran has never shown to be particularly cruel or weak, just disabled. Why would they side with this crazy bitch and some bastard offspring when you have a more level headed ruler? Doran came across as one of those This is the ruler we have been waiting for. Unless they are itching to get their asses killed because her lover didn't know to finish the job when he had the chance. What happened to Jon Snow made a lick more sense then this.

But the point I think they want to get across is; he lost touch with his people by staying at the palace (water garden) and failed to see how many of his people still wanted some form of retaliation for his dead sister and the children and when Oberyn blew his chance; Oberyn's wife and children were able to secretly get the guards and people to there way of thinking.

Peace is nice but sometimes you have to fight, how many people in Great Britain,France , Belguim, US, Syria , Afghanistan, Russia, etc. would stand by their leaders continued choice of not doing something,as bad as each went through in their historical and present times?

 

The Sand Snakes are going to muck up the south real bad.

[Daisy]

Question(s)

1: Why is Arya blind again?

2: Why does my Jorah have a massive case of dry skin on his arm. I literally forgot and I don't wanna google lest I be spoiled on this. 

 

Welcome Back Show. 
You really did kill Jon (Olly, you're effing dead to me, and poor, poor, Ghost). 

 

There were a lot of one liners which was awesome "you are a greedy bitch, you know that" and the whole Dothraki comedy show. I don't care about Dany (bored about her storyline, woman needs to haul ass and do something). i'm glad Sansa survived and Brienne found her and kicked some ass along with Podrick! (I literally squealled and went YAY!). 

That nun is so going to get it from the Flowers. (Where the heck is Grandma! I mean the woman killed Joffrey to save Margery. Where the hell is she now?). 

 

They killed Alexander Siddig?! WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT SHOW?!. Also. you know. I can't watch the episode where Oberyn died because it was literally the grossest thing I ever saw. like. I can't even. but I remember it. and I really have to wonder if Elaria is suffering from delusion, because she makes it out like Oberyn died  and it's someone's fault. It was Oberyn's fault. the man was acting all Ingo Montoya prepare to die, when he could have just killed the mountain. His head popped off because of his own petard. (ewwww. mental pictures!). get over it Elaria. and why is she waving the flag of Elia? were they BFFS? 

 

Jon is dead :( I am sad. 

[DigitalCount]

Question(s)

1: Why is Arya blind again?

2: Why does my Jorah have a massive case of dry skin on his arm. I literally forgot and I don't wanna google lest I be spoiled on this. 

1. It was implied that Arya was blind as a punishment/consequence of stealing a face while holding onto her identity in the previouslies.

2. Jorah contracted the greyscale disease while fighting Stone Men to save Tyrion while he was taking the latter to Daenerys as a token to get back into her good graces.

[GrailKing]

1: Killing Myran Trant, so they blinded her for rule breaking.

2 Jorah contracted grey scale when he and Tyrion were fighting off the stone men.

 

Ninja by D. C.

Edited April 25, 2016 by GrailKing

[Bossley]

So basically the writers slaughtered the Dorne storyline in the most literal sense of the word.

Somehow I doubt Oberyn would want his daughters to go from killing a Lannister girl to killing their own family, no matter how different the two brothers were.

Oberyn explicitly said in season four that they do not hurt little girls in Dorne. Does this storyline even matter? The Lannister family won by default because everyone with the Martell name is dead.

 

Also, can we conclude Margaery is the other queen in Cersei's prophecy? Joffrey died during his marriage to her. Oberyn's death following Margaery's wedding ultimately led to Myrcella's death. Tommem will probably die while being betrothed to her.

[GrailKing]

So basically the writers slaughtered the Dorne storyline in the most literal sense of the word.

Oberyn explicitly said in season four that they do not hurt little girls in Dorne. Does this storyline even matter? The Lannister family won by default because everyone with the Martell name is dead.

 

Also, can we conclude Margaery is the other queen in Cersei's prophecy? Joffrey died during his marriage to her. Oberyn's death following Margaery's wedding ultimately led to Myrcella's death. Tommem will probably die while being betrothed to her.

Conclude? no, she's a candidate, along with Dany and Sansa, I'm waiting for

Jamie and Brienne meeting in the River Land play out

as she is a third / fourth candidate. 

Edited April 25, 2016 by GrailKing

[bunnyblue]

My show is back and I love it!!

 

Favorite line: "It's a sad fucking statement if Dolorous Edd is our only chance." Heh.

Runner up: "I'd like some mutton. I'm not much of a hunter." I love Davos so much.

 

I've waited 10 months to see what happens to my beloved Jon Snow...guess I'll have to wait at least another week. No surprise, I loved all the Castle Black scenes. Ghost's howls and whining and banging against the door was heartbreaking. It also reminded me of Grey Wind's reaction while Robb was being killed.

 

So, Davos & the gang have been sitting in that room with a corpse through the night and into the morning. What exactly is their plan? Mel hasn't given Davos any indication that she can or will resurrect Jon, so why are they reluctant to give his body to Thorne? They must know that they have to burn his body or risk him turning into a wight. So why the delay? Is it that they want to kill Thorne and his cronies first before giving Jon a proper funeral? Either way, I can't wait for Edd to return with Tormund and crew. I want a Tormund vs Thorne rematch, and this time Tormund needs to finish the job.

 

The Melisandre reveal was disturbing but I get it. I hope she wakes from her nap feeling refreshed and looks into her flames and finds her new purpose. Get to work, Mel.

 

I loved Theon! I haven't forgotten that he betrayed Robb, captured WF, killed Ser Rodrik and those innocent farm boys. But seeing him urge Sansa along and protecting her from the cold and then how he was going to give himself up in order to give her chance to escape allowed me to forgive him a bit for his past sins. I loved when he picked up the sword and saved Pod. This was a clear-headed purposeful Theon and I hope to see more of him this season.

 

Sansa & Brienne giving and receiving of oaths got me choked up. I wanted them to hug. Poor Sansa needs a hug. I'm so happy she is now with someone who will not use her or abuse her but will protect her. I hope they make their way to Castle Black but, this being Game of Thrones, I fear something will happen and they won't reach the Wall. The show is making it too obvious that the safest place for Sansa is at Castle Black. I hope I'm wrong.

 

I liked Dany and the Dothraki. I loved her surprising the Khal with her knowledge of his language & the revelation that she was married to Drogo. But I had to laugh at the look on her face when she realized she said too much and got herself into deeper trouble. Where was Drogon? Still sleeping off his injuries? He needs to recover quickly and go find his mama.

 

I loved Tyrion's mangled Valyrian and how it scared the Meereenese woman into thinking he wanted to eat her baby. While the Tyrion/Varys scene was mostly exposition, I gladly welcome back their banter. And, yes, Tyrion does walk like a rich person. LOL.

[Ambrosefolly]

But the point I think they want to get across is; he lost touch with his people by staying at the palace (water garden) and failed to see how many of his people still wanted some form of retaliation for his dead sister and the children and when Oberyn blew his chance; Oberyn's wife and children were able to secretly get the guards and people to there way of thinking.

Peace is nice but sometimes you have to fight, how many people in Great Britain,France , Belguim, US, Syria , Afghanistan, Russia, etc. would stand by their leaders continued choice of not doing something,as bad as each went through in their historical and present times?

 

The Sand Snakes are going to muck up the south real bad.

I hate say, but as bad as Elia dying was, at least sheltered Doran knew it wouldn't be worth the blood and flesh of his people. And that is all it was, a fight for vengeance. They aren't fighting to defend their lands, like they did when the Targaryens invaded. While Robert's Rebellion was slightly more justifiable because the Mad King was basically setting everything one fire and killing everyone, in the end it didn't serve the realm well by having Robert as king, and they might have been better off with one of Elia's children as the sitting monarch. Didn't World War I get started because Archduke Franz Ferdinand and his wife were assassinated? In the end, was it worth all those people dying because a couple got killed(yes, I know it is probably a touch more complicated than that). Entire bloodlines from common families were wiped out because of wars. Germany decided they wanted show they were the "big man", and it ended in the Red Army sweeping through their country and raping and killing the remaining citizens because all the men were dead. The Russian killed their royal family because they were "weak", and plunged the USSR into abject poverty while the elites lived the high life.

 

Unless the people are defending their own soil from invaders, they are going to find war for any other reason is a futile endeavor.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Ambrosefolly

[Oscirus]

So am I to assume that Brienne actually did kill Stannis? There was some speculation that that was a bit of a cliff hanger as it was shown with Brienne's sword on the downstroke but we never saw Stannis dead.

 

Roose actually confirmed he was dead so yes, he's now definitely dead.

 

Why did Areo Hotah just drop dead? Yeah, Tyene stabbed him, but unless it was in the heart, you don't drop like a wet sack of Jorah's dreams.

 

I assume the dagger was likely poisoned.

So basically the writers slaughtered the Dorne storyline in the most literal sense of the word.

Oberyn explicitly said in season four that they do not hurt little girls in Dorne. Does this storyline even matter?

 

To be fair, Oberyn said that, once Oberyn died and nothing was done, all bets were off as far as Ellaria was concerned.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Oscirus

[Cthulhudrew]

I'm kind of surprised they didn't film some of those Castle Black scenes when they shot season 5, if only because the kid who plays Olly has grown so visibly since then. Every time the camera cut to him, I kept thinking, yeah- this isn't the next day.

 

Speaking of time compression, there seemed to be quite a bit of discontinuity between the scenes and time jumps, to me. Up at Castle Black, it has seemingly only been a day since Jon got stabbed at the end of last season; meanwhile, there seem to have been several days at least since Daenarys fled Meereen and was captured by Dothraki; and it seems to me, even with Raven-telegraph, there must have been even more than that between Jamie finishing his sail northwards from Dorne, to sending out the press notice that Myrcella was dead, and it getting back to Dorne.

 

I realize television time makes things more difficult than a series of novels to iron out the timeline, but I can't help but feel as if they could have done (and generally have done) a better job than this.

[Miles]

The red woman is interesting. That can't be a simple glamour. She had sex with half the characters. So her body actually has to feel young and firm. So I'm wondering if the magic actually makes her younger. She also doesn't seem to walk slow or be in pain, when being her younger self.

 

Ugh, Dany. Just shut up and then light the tent on fire when he came to rape you. Perfect cover to run away! Instead she tried to pull rank and got punked by those two Khal wives. Or, if she hadn't locked two of her babies in a freaking basement, she could have just flambed the entire horde and looked cool while walking away from explosions.

Dothraki have sex out in the open. So that would not have worked. This way she at least bought herself some time.

 

But the point I think they want to get across is; he lost touch with his people by staying at the palace (water garden) and failed to see how many of his people still wanted some form of retaliation for his dead sister and the children and when Oberyn blew his chance; Oberyn's wife and children were able to secretly get the guards and people to there way of thinking.

Peace is nice but sometimes you have to fight, how many people in Great Britain,France , Belguim, US, Syria , Afghanistan, Russia, etc. would stand by their leaders continued choice of not doing something,as bad as each went through in their historical and present times?

I really don't buy that the common people give a rats ass what happens to their royal family, as long as they themselfs aren't effected. That was made clear quite a few times in the series when Dany said that the common people were praying for the return of the Targarians. She was promtly told that the common people don't care who rules them or if their rulers get killed.

 

I hate say, but as bad as Elia dying was, at least sheltered Doran knew it wouldn't be worth the blood and flesh of his people. And that is all it was, a fight for vengeance. They aren't fighting to defend their lands, like they did when the Targaryens invaded. While Robert's Rebellion was slightly more justifiable because the Mad King was basically setting everything one fire and killing everyone, in the end it didn't serve the realm well by having Robert as king, and they might have been better off with one of Elia's children as the sitting monarch. Didn't World War I get started because Archduke Franz Ferdinand and his wife were assassinated? In the end, was it worth all those people dying because a couple got killed(yes, I know it is probably a touch more complicated than that). Entire bloodlines from common families were wiped out because of wars. Germany decided they wanted show they were the "big man", and it ended in the Red Army sweeping through their country and raping and killing the remaining citizens because all the men were dead. The Russian killed their royal family because they were "weak", and plunged the USSR into abject poverty while the elites lived the high life.

WW 1 was infinetly more complicated and WW 2 didn't start because Germany wanted to show they were a "big man". The Nazis came to power and started the war because Germany was strangled to death by the terms of the treaty of versailles and desperete people turn to "strong leaders". Edited April 25, 2016 by Miles

[Cthulhudrew]

On another note, Owen Teale continues to give a really excellent performance as Ser Alliser. I feel like he brings a much more nuanced and three-dimensional feel to the character than in the books, where he really is just villainous. I'm not sure how much of it is from the tv show writing as opposed to the actor's line readings, but I think he comes across as much more believable and human.

[Cthulhudrew]

So, Davos & the gang have been sitting in that room with a corpse through the night and into the morning. What exactly is their plan? 

 

I believe they are waiting for Edd to gather the cavalry... err, the wildlings... to come riding to the rescue. They do owe Jon Snow, after all (which is what Ser Davos was hinting at).

[rozen]

I found it fucking disturbing. The kid was their first cousin and be all accounts seemed like a decent, thoughtful human being, and they are cracking jokes and literally stabbing him in the back, when he was willing to fighting them with a measure of honor. They have as much honor as Ramsey. Either he was secretly a Joffery/Ramsey to them, or these girls are lacking in loyalty or any type of familial love, except for their eccentric daddy, who probably spent most of his time fucking Essos and Westros than with them. At this point, I don't think Westros or Essos are worth saving when any human being worth anything are being killed in one cruel fashion or another. #TeamWhiteWalker.

 

The daughters are clearly rigorously trained assassins, I have no expectation of them to have fondness for a relative who is soft and weak, which is an anathema to them. I think the older sister decided the second Tristan picked the sister he thought was weaker. If he'd taken the harder opponent, I could see bull whip sister letting it play out.

 

I really don't buy that the common people give a rats ass what happens to their royal family, as long as they themselfs aren't effected. That was made clear quite a few times in the series when Dany said that the common people were praying for the return of the Targarians. She was promtly told that the common people don't care who rules them or if their rulers get killed. 

 

I think it depends on the country. Dany's argument was dumb because most people don't even remember when they were ruled by a Targaeryean, and on top of that the last one tried to kill them all. I can totally buy a fiercely independent nation would take pride in its ruling family. Letting your family get picked off one by one by the very family you've engaged your only heir to could go over very poorly. The fact there was only one guardsmen that Ellaria thought was a threat out of his whole palace speaks volumes. I'm not saying Doran was wrong, I'm just saying it seems like his mindset could have been orthogonal to his country's. Ellaria and Oberyn's entire line could be written off as crazy people bent on vengeance, or as a more accurate reflection of Dorne.

 

I see that family as the Dornish Kill Bill trope, traveling around doing the shit that needs doing while Doran played high-minded king. I always thought Cersei was going to come for them the second she retrieved her daughter (dead or alive), so I see them as the steel that's needed to actually survive the hell she's about to bring down on them. Ethical steel usually gets killed in this show (Hey Jon), so I'm not mad at it.

Edited April 25, 2016 by rozen

[Duke Silver]

[snip]

 

I am almost rooting for Cersei to take out the High Sparrow, since his sanctimonious act is working on my last nerve...then I remember that this means I am rooting for Cersei and the Mountain. Well, so be it. But I bet Tommen buys the farm, and Cersei knows that too.

 

[snip]

 

I struggle with this too, but I always end up cheering against religious zealotry, so the High Sparrow & his sheeple can take a dive off a high cliff for all I care.

[Ambrosefolly]

The daughters are clearly rigorously trained assassins, I have no expectation of them to have fondness for a relative who is soft and weak, which is an anathema to them. I think the older sister decided the second Tristan picked the sister he thought was weaker. If he'd taken the harder opponent, I could see bull whip sister letting it play out.

Then they aren't worth saving or caring about if all they care about if a person can place a spear through someone's head. Trystan was being trained in ruling a kingdom, not kill people. I don't know the extent of Trystan's training in fighting (though it seemed he might know the basic of sword play), and maybe Doran should pushed hand to hand combat more, but Trystan, by virtue of who he is, can't focus all of his energy on being an assassin.

 

Also, probably a lot easier to be a rigorously trained assassin when your family is housing you in a palace, feeding you good food and supplying another necessity you might have. Nice way to repay that generosity.

 

I think it depends on the country. Dany's argument was dumb because most people don't even remember when they were ruled by a Targaeryean, and on top of that the last one tried to kill them all. I can totally buy a fiercely independent nation would take pride in its ruling family. Letting your family get picked off one by one by the very family you've engaged your only heir to could go over very poorly. The fact there was only one guardsmen that Ellaria thought was a threat out of his whole palace speaks volumes. I'm not saying Doran was wrong, I'm just saying it seems like his mindset could have been orthogonal to his country's. Ellaria and Oberyn's entire line could be written off as crazy people bent on vengeance, or as a more accurate reflection of Dorne.

 

I see that family as the Dornish Kill Bill trope, traveling around doing the shit that needs doing while Doran played high-minded king. I always thought Cersei was going to come for them the second she retrieved her daughter (dead or alive), so I see them as the steel that's needed to actually survive the hell she's about to bring down on them. Ethical steel usually gets killed in this show (Hey Jon), so I'm not mad at it.

Ellaria didn't seem to give a shit that the Lannisters and Barrethons had her lover's sister, nephew and niece brutally slaughtered. She only started really caring when her lover was offed. She lucked out that the guards seemed to care more about it than her.

I struggle with this too, but I always end up cheering against religious zealotry, so the High Sparrow & his sheeple can take a dive off a high cliff for all I care.

Well I am a religious zealot, and I don't feel too sorry for her because she was the one that armed the Faith Militant to get back at Maragery.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Ambrosefolly

[Andromeda]

http://www.people.com/article/game-thrones-premiere-melisandre-actor-reveals-making-that-final-scene

According to this People article, the old lady's body is 100% real, from an 80 year old lady. The face is the actress.

I was getting really bummed when Reek's plan to lure the hunters away failed so miserably, it's so GoT. Then came Brienne and a trained Pod to the rescue. I jumped up and clapped. Great scene.

Hated to see Alexander Siding get killed off!

Edited April 25, 2016 by Andromeda

[Ambrosefolly]

WW 1 was infinetly more complicated and WW 2 didn't start because Germany wanted to show they were a "big man". The Nazis came to power and started the war because Germany was strangled to death by the terms of the treaty of versailles and desperete people turn to "strong leaders".

They say that Gavrilo Princip fired the shot that started 2 World Wars. Also, some believe if Germany didn't start invading other countries, they would have been left alone.

[Hecate7]

Ghost probably heard the whole murder go down, looked like his pen was close by.

Yes, it was a weird shot, but Dillane and Christie have confirmed that Stannis was killed.

 

 

Even if he didn't hear it, he could smell the change in Jon.

[Sentient Meat]

It made me happy and even a little hopeful to see these little groups forming... Tyrion and Varys from last year... Davos' group and presumably Jon Snow, and Brienne, Podrick, Sansa and Theon... Even had a tear in my eye from the last reunion.

 

Looks like they are paving the way for Arya to become Westeros' version of Zatoichi or Blind Fury.

 

Anyone powerful enough to transform themselves from that to the younger version of the Red Woman must surely be able to revive Jon Snow.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I had two major moments of (probably temporary) relief in this episode. When the search party found Sansa hiding, even after Theon essentially sacrificed himself to help her get away, I thought for fuck's sake, is this girl ever going to have a moment of peace? I wasn't even hoping for her to be safe because obviously that's too much to ask but I was hoping that she would at least be able to have a few hours of not being in peril or being abused. When Brienne and Podrick showed up, I whooped with happiness and relief.

 

My other moment of relief was when Ghost was finally freed and brought inside with Davos. The whole time that he was howling and crying, I was terrified that he would end up murdered like Robb's direwolf.

 

The conversation I kind of wish we had heard would start with Jamie asking Cersei, "So what's up with your hair?"

 

I would love for Sansa and Podrick to have some happiness together but I think that ultimately, her duty is going to require to marry someone with a better title in order to form a strong alliance so that begs the age old question: is it better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all?

 

I'm also sad that both Myrcella and Tristane were murdered which is just further proof that in GoT, the nice people are always the ones who are killed (Tywin notwithstanding).

[thuganomics85]

As someone who was disappointed in the fifth season (except Hardhome.  Hardhome was awesome), I surprisingly really enjoyed the premiere.  A few stories I'm not entirely wild about, but I at least feel like there is some much needed movements in some plots, and almost all the main characters had a moment to shine.  The biggest surprise though was how funny it was.  Sure, Tyrion/Varys together goes without saying, but I also loved Davos pretending to appease Alister, and especially all the stuff with the Dothraki.  I forgot that the Dothraki can actually be some funny guys, once you look past all the pillaging, killing, and blood-shed.

 

Favorite part was definitely Brienne riding in and saving Sansa and Theon/Reek from certain capture.  I actually didn't see it coming and was wondering who could stop five or so Bolton me.  Silly me: I course it would be Brienne (with an assist from Podrick!)  And unlike with Arya, Sansa seems to be smart enough to stick with her, so I'm looking forward to this foursome going forward.

 

Well, shit.  RIP, Doran.  Should have known him being the only level-headed leader in all of the Seven Kingdoms, means he wasn't long for this world.  Bummed we won't be getting any more Alexander Siddig, since he was the perfect choice for the role.  But I guess he needed to go, because the only way I can see a Dorne vs. King's Landing war, is with Ellaria in charge.  I still find it hilarious that she claims she is doing this for what the Lannisters did to her family, which includes Oberyn, the guy who once boasted how the Dornish would never harm children.  And, well, look at Mycella.  Yeah, somewhere in the afterlife, Oberyn's probably like "Way to make me look like an asshole, Ellaria!"  Not surprised she and the Sand Snakes cleaned house (bye Trystan and bodyguard guy), but I'll wait and see if they can hold their own against the Lannister Army.  Still, when this is all said and done, I feel like everyone is just going to kill themselves, and the White Walkers will just show up and be like "Umm... is there no one left to kill?"

 

Lena Headey was great in the scene where she finds out what happened to Myrcella.  Still think she's a horrible human being, but it has to suck for anyone to lose their child.  Yeah, I'm sure she's going to unleash some hell.  It's too bad that Myrcella's death understandably casts a big shadow over everything, because I really wanted to see Jaime's reaction to everything he missed.  I can just seem all "So, hold on?  I left for a few weeks, and suddenly a religious cult has shown up and more or less taken over, our king's wife is in jail for incest, you got thrown into jail, you got out after you had to walk through King's Landing naked, AND the new King's Guard consists of a Zombie Mountain?!  Seven Hells!"

 

Jon certainly seems dead for now, although his corpse his hanging out, so Kit Harrington gets to net some of the easiest paychecks ever, at least.  At the very, very least, I hope Davos' plan works, and Dolorious gets the Wildings over to kill some Night Watch ass!  Aliser better get is, but I don't want to leave out Olly.  I vote for a giant to launch that little prick over the wall.  At least with this show, I know that him being a kid doesn't mean he's safe in the slightest.

 

Still not sure what is going on with Arya.  She's still blind and now that other girl is just showing up to beat her ass each day?  It's like Daredevil, if Matt Murdock and Stick became much younger and women.

 

I hate Ramsay, but I laughed at his long-winded parting words to Miranda's body, and then just told the guy to feed her to the dogs.  And laughed even harder when Roose showed up and was like "Congrats on getting Stannis, but your stupid-ass let Sansa escape, since you were a horrible husband to her.  Next time, just torture the help like normal!" to Ramsay.  No one can top Tywin, but Roose is certainly a nice replacement in the "murderous, disappointing father" department.

 

Good news!  Dany will not be forced to marry another Khal!  Bad news!  She's being forced to go to some temple, where Dothraki widows goes to die.  Dany just isn't allowed to interact with the rest of the main characters for more then a few episodes, huh?  At least Jorah and Daario are on their way, but good luck getting through that horde.  Tyrion and Varys might need to break out her dragons and give them a cloth or something to sniff.

 

Episode ends with Melisandre revealing that her magical necklace is what makes her look like a smoken, red-headed Carice Van Houten, and she's actually an old crone in real-life.  I wonder how old she actually is?

 

Glad we briefly checked in on Margaery, but I hope she isn't going to be stuck in that cell throughout the entire season.  You can't cage Natalie Dormer, show!  Lady Olenna needs to shut this shit down!  High Sparrow is still high and mighty, but Jonathan Pryce continues to be awesome, and congrats to him making the opening credits.

 

Welcome back, Game of Thrones!

Edited April 26, 2016 by thuganomics85

[wayne67]

Ah Game of Thrones. Gratuitous violence and nudity. Very slow plot progression.

 

I found Arya getting smacked down darkly amusing. She wanted to be trained as an assassin and now she's learning how to listen the very very hard way by being blind.

 

Dorne run by crazy vengeful ladies, I wonder how long that will last. Cersei hasn't been doing very well, after all she got publicly reviled when she went outside last... Shame Shame. That said, Tristan was a bit of an idiot turning his back to someone who just said they were there to kill him.

 

Oh well. At least Sansa may have an episode where she's not a captive or a bargaining chip.

 

The Night Watch bores me. 

 

Dany is like the Ice Zombies, she takes forever to go anywhere... I hope someone is feeding those 2 dragons in the undercrypt. 

[Scaeva]

I found it fucking disturbing. The kid was their first cousin and be all accounts seemed like a decent, thoughtful human being, and they are cracking jokes and literally stabbing him in the back, when he was willing to fighting them with a measure of honor. They have as much honor as Ramsey. Either he was secretly a Joffery/Ramsey to them, or these girls are lacking in loyalty or any type of familial love, except for their eccentric daddy, who probably spent most of his time fucking Essos and Westros than with them. At this point, I don't think Westros or Essos are worth saving when any human being worth anything are being killed in one cruel fashion or another. #TeamWhiteWalker.

 

But then Pod would die! We can't have that. 

 

Davos, Sansa, Brienne, Dolorous Edd, and Samwell Tarly are also all decent characters who thankfully haven't been killed off yet. There's still some hope for Westeros. 

Edited April 25, 2016 by Scaeva

[Scaeva]

Episode ends with Melisandre revealing that her magical necklace is what makes her look like a smoken, red-headed Carice Van Houten, and she's actually an old crone in real-life.  I wonder how old she actually is?

 

 

 

In the behind the episode segment, one of the showrunners said George RR Martin had informed them awhile back that Melisandre is several hundred years old.

[SimoneS]

It does worry me that with her fleet burnt that Daenerys will likely not reach Westeros until next season. I was so hoping that her story would move along faster.

[SimoneS]

Well I am a religious zealot, and I don't feel too sorry for her because she was the one that armed the Faith Militant to get back at Maragery.

 

I am not a religious zealot and I have no sympathy for Cersie and never will. She more than had her treatment by the High Sparrow coming. I hate that she is free and has succeeded in destroying both Loras and Margaery who did nothing wrong in the first place. Margaery's only sin is that she was becoming a stronger influence on Tommen who Cerse wants to be a puppet king. Screw Cersei. I hope she suffers even more before this is over. 

 

ETA: No decent ruler would ever give weapons and the authority to use them to religious zealots. It is only a matter of time before they turn on you in the name of whoever they worship. This truth applies on tv and in real life.

Edited April 25, 2016 by SimoneS

[Advance35]

I think it depends on the country. Dany's argument was dumb because most people don't even remember when they were ruled by a Targaeryean, and on top of that the last one tried to kill them all. I can totally buy a fiercely independent nation would take pride in its ruling family. Letting your family get picked off one by one by the very family you've engaged your only heir to could go over very poorly.

 

This is my outlook.  All that's happened to Dorne, the loss of direct connection to the Iron Throne through Oberyn's sister, The loss of Oberyn (even if he is partly to blame, he died gruesomely in a House Lannister run Kings Landing, by the known Lannister goon who killed the previously mentioned Sister) and how does Doran answer all  of this, he makes a Lannister girl the princess of Dorne?!?!?!?!?!?   I can't blame Ellaria and the Sand Snakes for thinking "WTF".   Doran and Oberyn didn't believe in hurting children.  Ellaria and her Girls clearly believe an eye for an eye trumps high minded morals.

 

Trystane seemed to be very much his father's son.  And he actually loved Myrcella.   That was probably the deal breaker when it came to deciding his fate.   I'd imagine the Sand Snakes left Dorne right after Jaimie, Bronn and Trystane.   My question is......are they in Kings Landing to do anything else?  

 

I liked Sansa's scenes tonight and think  I'll continue to find her story one of the best in the whole show because her circumstances are constantly evolving for better or worst.   Betrothed to Joffrey, set aside and made an abused prisoner, minor conspiring with the Tyrells before being forcibly married into House Lannister, forming a bond with Tyrion despite his family before the fallout of the Red Wedding, witnessing the death of a King at his wedding before fleeing.  A fugitive from the Iron Throne and showing up at her insane Aunts castle to be betrothed to her maladjusted cousin, suffering attempted murder by her Aunt only to have circumstances turn and witness her Aunts murder, scheming to help cover it up, betrothed to Ramsay and ultimately ending up out in the Wilderness, running for her life in her deceased father's lands about to die from hypothermia being held in the arms of Theon Greyjoy.  I could imagine Sansa just replaying the last couple of years going "Damn" or something equivalent.

 

Also interested in what's ahead for Margaery Tyrell because when  you think about it, she actually does have some things she could confess.   Namely, her families role in the murder of a king and letting said Kings Uncle and his wife take the fall.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Advance35

[lucindabelle]

http://www.people.com/article/game-thrones-premiere-melisandre-actor-reveals-making-that-final-scene

According to this People article, the old lady's body is 100% real, from an 80 year old lady. The face is the actress.

I was getting really bummed when Reek's plan to lure the hunters away failed so miserably, it's so GoT. Then came Brienne and a trained Pod to the rescue. I jumped up and clapped. Great scene.

Hated to see Alexander Siding get killed off!

In which case it is indeed shaming. My mom is 84 and looks 1000 times better than that. That is abnormal for 80.

ETA just read the article. The old lady was just a body double, van Holten talks about hours and hours of makeup to get that look. NO indication that what we saw was just the sweet old lady who was just the stand in.

Edited April 25, 2016 by lucindabelle

[Timetoread]

I know there was a lot to process but I really just want to stab Olly in the eye with a pitchfork.

 

Q:  Why does everybody hate Olly so much?

[AliShibaz]

I'm new to this forum and fairly amazed at some of the great posts in this thread. So many people here show such great insights.

 

I've watched the episode once and feel I need to watch it at least once or twice more before making any detailed posts. But as for now, the word that comes to mind is "uneven".

 

Some of the scenes were great (such as Ramsey's, "Feed her to the dogs." Who else would ever get to make such a statement?

 

But a lot of the scenes felt unnecessary and very disappointing (such as Arya's scene and a few others). I've never enjoyed Danerys' storyline once they poured that bucket of gold over her brother's head. It has all been pretty disappointing ever since then.

[Last Time Lord]

Q: Why does everybody hate Olly so much?

Well, he was the Brutus to Jon's Julius Caesar, getting the final stab in at the end of the last season.

Plus he looked positively smug about it in this episode.

[Drogo]

 

Q:  Why does everybody hate Olly so much?

 

I haven't liked Olly since the Battle of Castle Black, mostly because one minute he was like this:

 

 

 

And the next minute he was like this:

 

 

He was paralyzed with fear while how many Crows died around him... paralyzed until he saw a chance to get revenge for himself (on Ygritte, who shot his father.) 

 

I can see this kid growing up to be someone who parks in handicapped spaces then complains when he's ticketed. 

[GrailKing]

 

    I really don't buy that the common people give a rats ass what happens to their royal family, as long as they themselfs aren't effected. That was made clear quite a few times in the series when Dany said that the common people were praying for the return of the Targarians. She was promtly told that the common people don't care who rules them or if their rulers get killed.

 

 

 

We don't know what the common people of Dorne thinks, we haven't seen any of them and at least some of them would feel the need for revenge.

 

We don't know for sure but it doesn't look like Doran advertises why he does what he does except to a very small circle; hence he comes off weak instead of smart.

[GrailKing]

In which case it is indeed shaming. My mom is 84 and looks 1000 times better than that. That is abnormal for 80.

ETA just read the article. The old lady was just a body double, van Holten talks about hours and hours of makeup to get that look. NO indication that what we saw was just the sweet old lady who was just the stand in.

Mel is to look way older than 80, like well over 100 or 200 years so just being able to breath is amazing.

[Conan Troutman]

I assume the dagger was likely poisoned.

 

But poison doesn't work THAT fast. I get that they had to cut the scene short to save time, but why not cut his throat instead? Or did they want to do some literal backstabbing?

[Daisy]

Q:  Why does everybody hate Olly so much?

 

Because, Jon pretty much took Olly in, kept him as his confident, trusted him, wanted to train him etc, and because Jon wouldn't kill all the Wildlings, Olly was part of the Casear killing of Jon (being the Brutus, and doing the final blow)

 

and he killed Ygritte 

Edited April 25, 2016 by Daisy

[Primetimer]

Come join the party, even if you're already dead!

Read the story

[dmc]

I thought we were done with Dorne.  Part of me groaned when we were back there and part of me was excited that at least they killed some of the cast there.

I don't think Ramsey feeding Miranda to the hounds is necessarily unfeeling...I get the feeling it's what Miranda would have wanted.

Pod helping Sansa remember the words was probably my favorite part of the episode.

Jaime please don't help Cersei....she doesn't deserve it.

Why does Dany always get the really hot guys?

[Dobian]

Yay for Brienne and Pod, that was the best part of the episode.  And Theo finally wasn't totally lame.