S02.E19: Back to Normal

[ElectricBoogaloo]

A meta-human with super strength named Griffin Grey mistakes Harry for Earth-1 Harrison Wells and kidnaps him, demanding that Wells cure him from his current condition. Realizing another brilliant Wells could help track Griffin's location, Barry asks Jesse to help. Meanwhile, Wally corners Joe about The Flash.

 

Promo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Zq8iflTa4c

[Trini]

This would usually be the episode that Wally finds out, but since Barry lost gave away his speed, there's no way to prove it, so I think his secret is safe for a few more episodes.

 

Comic preview: http://thecwflash.tumblr.com/post/143223931264/caitlin-comes-face-to-face-with-killer-frost-on

[DavidJSnyder]

So is Wally making the jump to Joe being the person the Flash cares about and not the jump to Barry or is he just being polite about it?

[benteen]

I loved Wells calling out Barry and the rest of the Scooby gang for their decisions in the beginning.  So naturally he decides to come up with a plan worthy of Barry-level stupidity by re-creating the particle accelerator explosion.  Brilliant!  How many more lives will be destroyed because of it?  Ah, who cares, as long as BARRY gets what he wants.  Again.

I enjoyed Killer Frost interacting with Caitlin...really sorry to lose the only real fun version of that character.  She mentioned a brother Caitlin didn't know about so I assume that will be a storyline next season.

Felt the freak-of-the-week had a pretty good incentive for being angry at Fakes Wells and was definitely more sympathetic than villainous.

[cambridgeguy]

No desire to capture the unfortunate Mr. Grey and offer to put the full STAR Labs team on looking for a cure?  Geez, tossing folks in prison without due process is kind of dubious but this guy wasn't a supervillain.  Even if what Wells said was true about there not being a cure giving up after a few hours seems premature.

I hope that the next visitor to Zoom's hideaway brings a piece of paper and a pencil.  Write the alphabet down, show it to masked dude, and figure out what it is he's trying to say if you can't bust him out.  Obviously he's relevant, otherwise Zoom wouldn't bother keeping him alive.  The logical choice would be Zolomon senior but that's irrelevant to the audience.

Oh, and since when did Caitlin have Cisco-level technical skills?  Rigging up that thing to KF's cell wasn't trivial.

[mrspidey]

Another Particle accelerator incident? That's just brilliant, Dr. Wells. I wonder how many more supervillains this will create. 

[nksarmi]

I am going to assume for the time being - until next week proves me wrong - that Harry's plan is to limit the experiment to just Barry. I'm not expecting that plan to work with the name drops of Wally West and Jesse Quick in this very episode - but as long as that is his intent and he tries to put a logical plan into place to make that happen, I will probably give him a pass.

I did enjoy him telling Barry that this Zoom mess was on him, because he's right - it is. Although I was still hoping he had something up his sleeve when Barry was giving up his speed.  Seriously, I'm relying on Harry here to save the day and he's letting me down because of plot.

[benteen]

23 minutes ago, nksarmi said:

I am going to assume for the time being - until next week proves me wrong - that Harry's plan is to limit the experiment to just Barry. I'm not expecting that plan to work with the name drops of Wally West and Jesse Quick in this very episode - but as long as that is his intent and he tries to put a logical plan into place to make that happen, I will probably give him a pass.

I did enjoy him telling Barry that this Zoom mess was on him, because he's right - it is. Although I was still hoping he had something up his sleeve when Barry was giving up his speed.  Seriously, I'm relying on Harry here to save the day and he's letting me down because of plot.

I'm going to assume to that the explosion will be limited to just Barry but given the horrific disregard for human life on this show when it comes to what Barry wants, it would not shock me in the least if they try to recreate the full scale of the original explosion.

[Hook75]

Who is paying for Star labs?  Who is paying Caitlin and Cisco?

I liked this epe, much better than last week.

[TwistedandBored]

This was not the episode for conversation about another particle accelerator. I mean the Team just witness how much damage the old one is still causing in people's lives and their brilliant idea is to ruin more people's live all so Barry can feel special again? Just no.  

[MadyGirl1987]

Pretty good episode. Liked Barry dealing with the limitations after becoming normal again. Liked how they were still working on dealing with Zoom and threats instead of being all "we don't have Flash, let's call it a day." (Although maybe they would have if Caitlin and Harry were not  abducted.) Enjoyed Caitlin meeting Killer Frost.

I did not understand why Joe was so hesitant to introduce Wally to the Flash. Was he worried about him finding out it was Barry? Did he not want to put that pressure on Barry when he was dealing with everything? If anything, I was expecting him to realize maybe somebody showing gratitude and appreciation would lift Barry's spirits, kinda a  "this is why you fight" thing.

The one big problem I had was that stupid plan to recreate the particle explosion! We spend the better part of the hour seeing someone affected very badly by the first explosion (to the point of premature death) and they want to potentially cause this to happen again? I love this show, but come on... Between giving up the speed without a backup plan and this, Flash and Co are like the fountain of bad ideas!

[sking24450]

I don'the understand the villan of the week's problem. It seemed like he was causing his own problem. If every time he used his super strength he would age the logical conclusion is to stop using the power. It seemed like a power he needed to access rather than one that he had no control over.

Like the last fight was just weird. He essentially killed himself even after Barry offered help.

[Cthulhudrew]

Where does Zoom go all the time? It seems like he only has his "lair" in order to grab people and lock them up, and then show up at dramatically appropriate times to prevent them escaping or taunt them.

(Side note: Zoom's prisoner treatment seems to be on the same level as that of Team Flash and the Pipeline. IE, no apparent bathroom facilities for the incarcerated. While we see him bringing Caitlin food this episode, what exactly is sustaining the Man in the Iron Mask? His indomitable will to live and tap out mysterious coded messages to whomever shows up this week?)

And if he's cured, shouldn't his lightning no longer be blue? Is anyone else going to notice and/or comment on this in the show?

Edited April 27, 2016 by Cthulhudrew

[VCRTracking]

Okay, Killer Frost you've figured out that Zoom is sweet on Caitlin, which is why he kept you(her doppelganger) around but now you're going to kill her? Smaaaaaart.

The writers also should have figured out what Caitlin would be wearing the previous episode when Zoom kidnapped because her outfit doesn't really cover that much for Frost to say that line.

[CletusMusashi]

I don't know how often he feeds the prisoners, but Killer Frost was certainly not running low on cosmetics.

Also: Why does he leave a great big hammer lying around next to the cages? Was that escape strategy really such a big stretch?

Wally had way too many long earnest speeches this week. They need to either give him stuff to do, or quit spotlighting him every single week. We get it already. Barry has a brother.

That aging at the end was kind of.. obviously fake. For just one example, if all of the hair on top of your head falls out at once, wouldn't you still have big clumps of hair sitting on top of your head? Nope, apparently it all just instantly teleports away by magic.

Edited April 27, 2016 by CletusMusashi

[cambridgeguy]

Presumably the new particle accelerator explosion will be done on a smaller scale.  That being said, I think a surprising number of people would volunteer for a chance to get superpowers even with the chance of fatal side effects.   Most of the metas have useful powers without any real drawbacks.

[Actionmage]

I was actually bored during this episode. I can usually find something interesting about part of the stories to pull me through a slower episode. This week wasn't a "catch your breath" type episode, it was meh.

*Barry is whiny because he isn't fast anymore. Here's a piece of advice, Barry: don't give your speed away! Your insistence on dealing "honorably" with yet another dishonorable, murderous villain is not doing you or anyone on your team favors.

*Jesse is angry at her murderin' dad. Still. I get it, but to make him promise to never murder anyone "for" her is dumb, especially coming from someone who has five effing college degrees. Hopefully she understands situational ethics, but if she doesn't? She better not expect Dad to help her out if/when another threat to her life comes up. (Now if this means that speed powers- via the various shots and infusions- kicks in and she saves herself? That'd be nice. Also, the preceding was just spec. The writers barely write for the two regular ladies and seem stuck on "petulantly stubborn" for Jesse. I'd rather she move back to Opal City and her seemingly cool roomie.) 

*Wally gets a re-fitted Roy Harper-ing and wants to do something more/good with his life, as well as sort of stalking the hero who saved him.  I thought Joe would come around sooner, though. He knows how needy Barry gets after a setback.

*Caitlin can't win for losing.  Neither can Man in the Iron Mask. 

*Poor Griffin Gray. His last fight with Barry read as if he'd just given up, which was weird as Barry and Company said they would try to help him. I guess after six months of aging and then about three or four changes close together, he just tired of it all.  It does make me wonder how often ,after his first use of his powers, Griffin used his strength. After two times or three, maybe stop?  Still, I disagree with the recapper about how Barry, Joe and Cisco acted. They weren't partying, but the scene was a long shot and the trio slowly went to check on Griffin. I understand checking in with Barry, but no one thought about this 18 year old kid who hadn't really injured anyone. He just wanted the guy who made him that way, change him back.  I wonder how STAR Labs is seen in Central City, what with the accelerator "accident" and various deaths. Now they have the death of a teen to deal with. (Or be covered up by Joe.)

*Harry's comeback to Iris' "we made those decisions as a team"? Wondrous in its Truth. It was made explicit last week when Joe asked Harry to help Barry, against his own gut feeling and knowledge of Zoom. I love how Harry understands everything going on, yet is unsentimental enough to call Barry on stuff.

Despite the meh, I enjoyed the potential of a "lost" brother for Caitlin. (Of course it's a brother. Unless Charlie is a nickname for Charlotte, where I'll be glad enough.)

[dusang]

38 minutes ago, CletusMusashi said:

I don't know how often he feeds the prisoners, but Killer Frost was certainly not running low on cosmetics.

Seriously!  Coincidentally I was sick in bed this weekend and after a couple days was SO desperate for a shower my hair had a life of its own -- I couldn't help but think of that as Caitlyn and KF swanned around with perfect hair and make-up for days while confined to airless boxes in mountain holds.  I don't need perfect realism but they could at least try to make the captives look marginally disheveled.

[Lady Calypso]

I really do hope that this particle accelerator recreation doesn't blow up in their faces (quite literally). I do think that Harry is going to be working at making sure the explosion isn't as big as it was last time, because he'd be pretty stupid to invite another slew of metahumans not just to Central City, but to their Earth in general. If Harry does find a way to contain it to one room (they better have a pretty air tight locked room for that), it MIGHT be possible. But this is The Flash. Of course something is going to go wrong. He'll probably accidentally create several more metas, and if they get Caitlin back, that could be the way to make her a meta too. 

I actually enjoyed Jesse in this episode. I kind of laughed when she said she had five majors in college and then she asks if it's different on this Earth. I could buy it, I guess. I don't mind that she helped out this episode. I don't think she's going to be around for next season as a regular (I guess I'd be surprised if she was) but she's ok for temporarily joining the team.

Iris got to go out in the field and help on a mission! And it just too two missing team members to do so. It's sad that that had to happen, but I'm happy to get more Iris...oh wait, she got put into the background halfway through. Ok, then. At least her and Jesse got to go out and...sit in the van while the three boys got to go out and do the dangerous hunting. I honestly would have thought Cisco would have sat in the van to monitor while Iris went out with her gun. 

It wouldn't be a Flash episode without someone giving a pep talk to Barry! 

I started to understand why Joe didn't want Wally to meet the Flash right away. Barry just lost his powers, he was dealing with that, and Joe wanted to wait until Barry found a way to get his powers back, if he even could, before doing that meet. Well, that was the impression I got. I'm still not loving Wally, but he's alright. 

Caitlin meets Killer Frost. Oh, and KF is dead. Ok, then! It was cool to hear about the small differences with each other (KF had a brother, for example). 

Griffin? He wasn't very smart, even if he is supposed to be eighteen years old. You'd think after the first two times of using your strength, you noticed yourself again and you'd stop. I would think he would learn to control it so he wouldn't use his super strength at all. Then he could just be a thirty something year old male for a while. 

I also loved how Harry told Iris that they didn't make the decision as a team. Because it's so true; it was all Barry. 

A better episode than last week's, at least for me, but still kind of weak. 

[thuganomics85]

Whelp, there goes Killer Frost, I guess.  This show sure is burning through the Earth 2 counterparts with a quickness.  Too bad since they're kind of entertaining. 

No surprise, Barry without his powers makes him all sulky and sad.  At least Harry didn't fully join the pity party and all "This was your fault, you know, you big nimrod!"  Still, I guess it's OK that he admits that was true, and still wants to stop Zoom and fight crime, even if he is at a major disadvantage.

It was great seeing Iris in the field, until I realized that this happens when Caitlin is kidnap, so it feels more like the writers struggle with having them both there at the same time, and there can be only one!

Jesse is back, so yay?  I did like the bit about her having five majors in Earth 2 college, and that isn't considered too out there.  Again, I really want to know more about the Earth 2 stuff.

Wally gets to meet "The Flash."  I'm guessing/hopefully they are building up towards making him a hero, but I wish they would go act it a bit quicker.

So, the big plan to get Barry his groove/powers back is to build another particule accelerator.  What could possibly go wrong?!  I hope Harry is going to find some way to only have if effect Barry, but I can so see it blowing up in their faces, and new metas get created.  Or Zoom is near-by and it just makes him even more powerful.

[ruby24]

I don't think any other show would or ever has treated its main couple with the absolute bare minimum of build-up that this one is doing. I have no choice but to think they're doing it because they're obligated but the truth is they're just not that interested in it. They were focused on it last year (at least up until the Out of Time episode) but It's kind of amazing the way they dropped it cold this season for SO long, and now that they brought it back in it's been with as little focus as humanly possible. Just as an example, what show wouldn't have lingered for a few seconds on her patching him up if you want to convey tension?

They throw in these obligatory conversation scenes, but nothing else, again, as if it's a checklist moment and has to be in there before they can move on. It's astounding. I think Oliver and Felicity got more than this (I guess because the writers are in love with Felicity and they're just not interested in Iris at all).

Also, I don't find Barry likeable when he's depressed. At all. They need to figure out a way to bring the fun back next season and make him the Barry he was in Season 1 and/or on Supergirl all the time again. He was so adorable back then. Like this, he's irritating as hell.

Edited April 27, 2016 by ruby24

[Lantern7]

Glad to be back, even though the episode itself was a dud. Basically, Team Flash had the aging guy (unworthy of a quippy nickname) beat Barry like a piñata until he had a massive heart attack. Um . . . yay?

Anybody else amused that Harry gets kidnapped the first time he leaves STAR Labs? Also, I'm disappointed we didn't get to see an art-deco-inspired Opal City. Still holding out hope that one of the DC shows will feature Jack Knight and/or Shade.

Also funny . . . Harry ready to replicate the "accident" that gave Barry his powers. Somebody read the Flashpoint miniseries.

[mtlchick]

The only thought I had: "So a Costco can stand in for a chemical factory?"

[AudienceofOne]

For me personally, I've been banging on about Team Stupid and how Barry is the cause of almost every problem he's fighting since about episode two of this show. So the stupid doesn't bother me as much because, to me, nothing's changed. Barry is a totally adorkable lovable dumbass (remember when he created the singularity that created the bridges in the first place?) who's been blundering around like a human cannonball of destruction since the beginning. So, no real change then.

And yes, just like the end of Season 1 the end of this season is going to be a massive particle accelerator explosion that gives Barry back his powers and creates a new breed of metahumans he then needs that speed to fight. Because destroying two universes is not enough for Team Flash. But at least he'll defeat Zoom. Who he could have defeated last episode but just didn't. For reasons.

[quarks]

Kinda meh for me.

Good things:

1. Unlike some here, I appreciated all of the effort Killer Frost made with her makeup while in prison with only Zoom to see her. No reason not to look your bluest at times like these, everyone!

2. My childhood love for Jay Garrick notwithstanding, I'm liking Teddy Sears a lot more as a villain than as a good guy.

Questionable things:

1. Uh, I don't really think that an undergraduate major is quite the same as an MD in the field, but thanks for the contribution, Jessie.  And also, did you just leave your new roommate high and dry? Hope you're not expecting to get your share of the security deposit back. While I'm on this subject, how did you find said roommate, apartment and presumably some money in the interim?

2. How did villain of the week track Harry down?  And why did he force Harry to try to put a cure together at an abandoned carnival instead of a lab facility?

3. Killer Frost, I'm glad that you were trying to live up to your name, but your previous appearances suggested that you were bright enough to realize that given Zoom's interest in Caitlin, not killing Caitlin increased your chances of staying alive.

Bad things:

1. Yes, after an episode focusing on how the last particle accelerator explosion made a teenager age quickly and die young, by all means, let's set off another one. GREAT PLAN, EVERYONE.

2. In this week's episode of The Flash: Iris had about two minutes of getting to be out in the field before getting sidelined back to adoring gazes and doing nothing, Caitlin got about two minutes of getting Killer Frost out of her cell before getting imprisoned again, Jessie was left in the lab, and Killer Frost was killed off.

Sigh.

3. This constant "you'll be shocked when you find out who is behind the iron mask!" is making me feel that I'm not going to be all that shocked. Unless it's Aquaman! Or Clark Kent!  That might be kinda shocking, but mostly because I'd be shocked that The Flash was allowed to use those characters. 

[tennisgurl]

I will miss Killer Frost, as Danielle clearly has a blast playing her, and she adds a lot more to Caitlin, even if she is kind of stuck in damsel mode right now. But, then again, at least its something. 

I know Barry can make really stupid choices, but, God help me, this show has succesfully turned me into a shipper when it comes to him and Iris. Like, I cant even be mad at him because I spend so much of his screen time yelling at him and Iris to just get together damn it. Its a real problem. 

[DearEvette]

On 4/27/2016 at 11:49 AM, sking24450 said:

I don'the understand the villan of the week's problem. It seemed like he was causing his own problem. If every time he used his super strength he would age the logical conclusion is to stop using the power. It seemed like a power he needed to access rather than one that he had no control over.

Like the last fight was just weird. He essentially killed himself even after Barry offered help.

i know.  I was watching with my 10 y.o. son and when the poor villain guy explained that he aged every time he exerted himself, even my son was like "well, stop exerting yourself then!" I mean, a great reason to just chill out.

I do wonder if he discovered his strength, was enjoying it until he realized the effect of it and got madder.  Or how much exertion it takes to actually cause it to happen?  I also wonder if one of the effects of the particle accelerator on the people who got caught by it, is that you are compelled to use the "gift" you're given.  It would have been nice for the show to explain it a bit more because yeah, he just seemed like he could really manage.

It was nice to see Caitlyn come face to face with Killer Frost.  Although after awhile her exaggerated way of speaking with elongated enunciation said in a rather nasally tone just annoyed the crap out of me.

[KirkB]

It's funny you say that. When I was watching the episode and listening to Killer Frost I couldn't help thinking she sounded a little like Captain Cold, and then I wondered if it had something to do with both being chilly.  :)

Edited April 28, 2016 by KirkB

[Cthulhudrew]

21 hours ago, quarks said:

Questionable things:

1. Uh, I don't really think that an undergraduate major is quite the same as an MD in the field, but thanks for the contribution, Jessie.  And also, did you just leave your new roommate high and dry? Hope you're not expecting to get your share of the security deposit back. While I'm on this subject, how did you find said roommate, apartment and presumably some money in the interim?

She also seemed to be going by her own name- at least her first name, as roomie didn't blink twice when Harrison asked for Jessie. If you're trying to lay low, don't you usually pick up a different alias? (Maybe she changed her last name or told people Jessie was her nickname or something, I guess).

But I did find myself wondering how Griffin even knew where to find Wells, much less know what street he was going to turn down so that he could manage to be right in the middle of it to get hit. But then I sometimes wonder about things like that where clearly I'm not supposed to.

[Actionmage]

The constant "you'll never believe" about Man in the Iron Mask just makes me think that it's totally someone we'd believe or someone the writers hadn't settled on at the time of this script.  Find a thesaurus, pick a person. Read a competent mystery writer or two so you know how to dole the clues out smartly.

I'm just wild about Harry! He is the lovable curmudgeon this team needs and deserves. Keep doing you, Harry.

I get tired watching the show. Mostly because the team's reactions going from "well, Barry has no speed; let's take a couple of days to decompress" to "ZOMG!HARRY'SBEENKIDNAPPED! BY A COMPLETE STRANGER!!11!1!!"  Which makes it weird when the team doesn't react to something. Say, when Barry's travelling faster than ever, blips off tracking devices, blips back and even mentions something about how long was he gone. (Barry went to another dimension, so I'm betting that the monitors went flat/"dead" for however many seconds. That should be looked at by his team, right?)

I'm not sure how to feel over Harry accepting any part of Thawne-Wells' plan/fallout. Eobard Thawne was an unfeeling bastard of a man who stole a man's face and life in order to be a petty villain over a petty slight. Harry is not warm and fuzzy, but what happened here wasn't his doing. That he doesn't verbally argue with Griffin speaks to how he's adopted Earth-1, maybe. That Harry wants to rehab 'Harrison Wells' for the other Harrisons? Which is cool, but there's the whole E1 Wells is quite dead. So I don't know how Harry'd rehab the brand, so to speak.

You know? If Barry could find Dr. Light, I bet she could break TMitIM out of his cell. 

[millennium]

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

 

It was nice to see Caitlyn come face to face with Killer Frost.  Although after awhile her exaggerated way of speaking with elongated enunciation said in a rather nasally tone just annoyed the crap out of me.

I was thinking she should change the name to Killer Fry.

[Primetimer]

Unfortunately, metahumans keep metahumaning.

View the full article

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I had a 'review' typed out yesterday, but it got ate because of site problems and not gonna do it all again, so here's an edited version......

-  Good, but not great.

-  Barry needs his speed back, pronto.  I want to watch a superhero be a superhero (or at least have his abilities).

-  Wally is either pretty dense, or he at least has an inkling that Barry is the Flash.  The clues have been piling up for him.  Also, why are Barry & Team West keeping him in the dark?  Served Iris so well last season...............

-  Don't know how it will happen exactly, but the recreated PA explosion, next week, will cause Jessie and Wally to attain their speed & abilities.

-  How is it that HZ has a 'thing' for (E1)Caitlin when they've never interacted before the end of 2.18?  Oh, right, I'm supposed to 'just go with it'.

[AudienceofOne]

Poor Barry. I hope he gets his tall back soon.

[johntfs]

I felt kind of bad for the villain this week.  His thing was pretty much "Your particle thingie fucked my life.  Fix it!"  Which is not unreasonable.

I do wonder if the team will continue to use the tragic circumstances that villains have against them.  "Hey, this criminal is getting chemotherapy and has a compromised immune system.  Quick, inject him with Ebola!"

Edited April 28, 2016 by johntfs

[phoenics]

I'm beginning to wonder if TMITM is actually E1 Future Barry - the one who disappeared.  Clearly that Barry was super fast and probably powered by Tachyons or something even better, so he could presumably jump between worlds... so maybe it's him.  That "you wouldn't believe me if I told you line" reminds me of Fake!Mad Eye Moody in HP The GoF.  He said that when someone heard the real MEM screaming from within that chest.  When Harry asked what that was, Fake!MEM said, "You wouldn't believe me if I told you..." so I wonder if it's future E1 Barry?

Maybe that's lame.  My other theory would be Ronnie or Eddie.  But it's probably the "real Jay" which wouldn't be mind-blowing at all.

I enjoyed this episode a lot - but the villain's actions made no sense.  I kept wondering why he didn't just stop exerting himself?  Also - not sure how they are going to do the whole particle accelerator thing, but okay, whatever.  

Teddy Sears is smoking hot as Zoom.  I mean - just HAWT.  I kept thinking that I wished Caitlin would become KF and have an arc where she goes to the dark side and eventually just embraces it and has a hot love affair with Zoom.  Minus the slow speaking.  I hate that.

And LOVE the Westallen!  I understand how some feel like they haven't had enough buildup - but actually I think they've had more than Olicity did in S2 before they sprung Slade kidnapping Felicity on us because he said she was the one Oliver loved the most.  That moment came out of left field to me when it happened - probably because I only watched episodes once and I thought the show was going to resign Felicity to the "Chloe" box.  So, I could only count a few times where there were any charged scenes with Olicity that season because the first half was all Sara and the second half was other stuff... so I didn't really see it coming.  What's happening on the Flash is definitely different.  I think they've been dropping crumbs on this since Welcome to Earth 2... although I honestly believe there was a missed opportunity with Fast Lane by not having Barry come to her in the hospital.  Apparently it was filmed, but they cut the scene.  So maybe it would have been there.  

I'm torn between whether the writers just don't care about it or whether it keeps getting cut.  There have been several WA scenes now where they've been cut and those could have probably laid more foundation - so I blame the editor's room... clearly there is some bias there.  I think they also do the promos and they consistently leave Iris out of them as much as possible.  Marketing people generally appear very steeped in misogynoir against black women (they think they aren't marketable unless they are a trope or stereotype they can play to) ... the same kind of "erasure" and worse happened with Abbie Mills on Sleepy Hollow.  The good news is that the press seems to love Candice Patton - so she gets a TON of interviews.

I liked seeing Barry and Iris working together like that at the scene of the crime.  That's very reminiscent of the comics so that was nice.  I did think though that there were several times where Iris should have gone out with them over Cisco...  She's more handy with a gun than either Barry or Cisco and probably wouldn't have missed.  But I guess they needed Barry to be injured so she could patch him up (missed opportunity there for Iris and Barry to have a moment a la Gwen and Arthur from Merlin when Gwen patched Arthur up).  And she needed to be in the van when Barry took punch #2 so she could scream "Barry!"

I feel like this show needs better directors... the WA scene where Barry is talking about how Iris was his first (save, lol) and how he knew he could save her... just ugh - a punch to the heart in feels... but it would have been even more potent if they were facing one another rather than the suit.  This could point to how both are avoiding a more intimate connection out of fear that it's too late for them, but still... maybe Kevin Smith will do better... but I seriously miss David Nutter's influence in the director's chair.

Jesse and her five degrees, lol... and Iris' "Girl no, that's not common anywhere!" was HILARIOUS.  More of that spunky Iris please!

I'm excited to see Cisco vs Rupture next week and the episode looks intense.

Edited April 28, 2016 by phoenics

[bettername2come]

FORUMS! SWEET MERCIFUL FORUMS!

Ahem, anyway:

1. Villain was lame, but had completely believable motives. It's nice to see people who's lives got messed up from the accelerator call them out on how their lives were ruined and ask to be fixed. I like the reminders that STAR Labs employees are not popular people.

2. The Caitlin/Zoom plot. So many mixed emotions here. I'm a sucker for a kidnapping plot, always have been. Teddy Sears makes a disturbingly attractive villain (he was not this attractive in the movie where he torments Julianne Hough). I really feel the urge to rewatch the Jay scenes and embrace the hindsight creepiness of it all. I liked Danielle Panabaker playing against herself more than I thought I would. I'm sad to see Killer Frost dead, but hoping it means Caitlin gets to gain the powers in the next accelerator explosion in a non-evil capacity. I like that Caitlin was trying to escape and being proactive, although, geez, that ending. Poor Caitlin, she's been in an unhealthy relationship with a supervillain for months who faked his own murder in front of her, kidnapped her, ran straight through her which seems really wrong, and murdered someone with her face in front of her, and is now coming for her whole world because she rejected him. It's so disturbing and wrong in so many ways and I want a storyline for Caitlin that isn't being traumatized. 

3. Westallen. Yes. Acknowledgment of the feelings. Supportive Iris calling him a hero and sticking up for Barry to Wells. Talk of him saving her. Yes. This is what I'm here for.

4. Wally. Dude, you're smart. Figure out that the Flash is the tall skinny white guy in your family was in a coma for 9 months following the particle accelerator explosion.He's not even blurring his face around you and you're not blinded by love. Get it together.

5. Man in the iron mask: more convinced it's Ronnie, given the concern for Caitlin, but let's face it, I've considered every male character who could possibly exist here. Did anyone get coded message from his tapping?

6. Particle Accelerator part 2: Wally, Jesse or Caitlin better get powers out of this terrible, terrible idea.

[ruby24]

15 minutes ago, phoenics said:

And LOVE the Westallen!  I understand how some feel like they haven't had enough buildup - but actually I think they've had more than Olicity did in S2 before they sprung Slade kidnapping Felicity on us because he said she was the one Oliver loved the most.  That moment came out of left field to me when it happened - probably because I only watched episodes once and I thought the show was going to resign Felicity to the "Chloe" box.  So, I could only count a few times where there were any charged scenes with Olicity that season because the first half was all Sara and the second half was other stuff... so I didn't really see it coming.  What's happening on the Flash is definitely different.  I think they've been dropping crumbs on this since Welcome to Earth 2... although I honestly believe there was a missed opportunity with Fast Lane by not having Barry come to her in the hospital.  Apparently it was filmed, but they cut the scene.  So maybe it would have been there.  

I'm torn between whether the writers just don't care about it or whether it keeps getting cut.  There have been several WA scenes now where they've been cut and those could have probably laid more foundation - so I blame the editor's room... clearly there is some bias there.  I think they also do the promos and they consistently leave Iris out of them as much as possible.  Marketing people generally appear very steeped in misogynoir against black women (they think they aren't marketable unless they are a trope or stereotype they can play to) ... the same kind of "erasure" and worse happened with Abbie Mills on Sleepy Hollow.  The good news is that the press seems to love Candice Patton - so she gets a TON of interviews.

I liked seeing Barry and Iris working together like that at the scene of the crime.  That's very reminiscent of the comics so that was nice.  I did think though that there were several times where Iris should have gone out with them over Cisco...  She's more handy with a gun than either Barry or Cisco and probably wouldn't have missed.  But I guess they needed Barry to be injured so she could patch him up (missed opportunity there for Iris and Barry to have a moment a la Gwen and Arthur from Merlin when Gwen patched Arthur up).  And she needed to be in the van when Barry took punch #2 so she could scream "Barry!"

I feel like this show needs better directors... the WA scene where Barry is talking about how Iris was his first (save, lol) and how he knew he could save her... just ugh - a punch to the heart in feels... but it would have been even more potent if they were facing one another rather than the suit.  This could point to how both are avoiding a more intimate connection out of fear that it's too late for them, but still... maybe Kevin Smith will do better... but I seriously miss David Nutter's influence in the director's chair.

.

I totally agree with you on the need for better directors. Sometimes I wonder if my feeling on there not being nearly enough build-up is due to missed opportunities in the directing, like the moment where she's patching him up, them not facing each other for that monologue scene, etc. Even the club "Netflix and Chill" scene was just too damn short. Make it last like, one minute longer. Then it could be that scenes are being cut as well, but the cumulative effect of all that is to make these tidbits feel incredibly minimal. It's not what I'm used when I'm watching shows build up to something that's going to happen soon. It wouldn't hurt anything to have these moments last a few seconds longer, have the camera linger closer, make it seem like this is more important than something to get tossed in and then cut away as fast as possible to get back to the villain of the week.

They were given much more focus in the first season.

Edited April 28, 2016 by ruby24

[phoenics]

I agree - I think they are packing the episodes with SO MUCH for plot purposes that they are missing opportunities... even for small emotional beats left in the direction.  Just small beats.  They do show Iris looking at Barry with heart eyes and anxious eyes and insecure eyes CONSTANTLY (it's been happening since the beginning of Welcome to Earth 2) but they don't let the camera linger and they don't frame it with the score enough.  They ARE playing the Iris/Barry theme (from the score) when they have some scenes, but it's like it's not put together right.  So some of it is lost.

Last night was the first time (other than the conversation with Caitlin) where I KNEW for a fact that Iris' little expressions whenever she seems pained or worried that she's missed her chance with Barry are her ACTUALLY fearing that she's missed her chance.  Since 2.13, I've wondered this - but because the scenes lacked direction cues, I wasn't sure I could trust my own eyes or my knowledge of Candice Patton's non-verbal cues.

Which - honestly - give her some kind of award because she's clearly been giving the cues and acting up a little storm - the direction is failing her by not FOCUSING the camera on her more directly in the eps leading up to 2.18.

But her expression last night when Barry told her that she was his first (awwwww) and that he'd missed a LOT when he was in that coma... man that was really well played.  She literally had this "crap I kinda wish I could take that back" and "sorry Barry" and "have I missed my chance with you now?" expression on her face all at once.  And she's kinda had that going since 2.13.  The little looks she's giving him, etc.. where she looks at him, but then immediately looks down, etc..  S1 Iris NEVER did that - it was Barry who did that with her constantly... and now it's Iris.

It's a shame the direction isn't better.  I miss David Nutter.

[AudienceofOne]

The Man in the Iron Mask is Eddie. Brought to you courtesy of the "Impediment to Tru Wuv Trope".

Since I personally couldn't care if Barry ended up with Iris or a doughnut, it doesn't bother me. But Westallen shippers are about to get even more annoyed then they were before I think.

[ruby24]

Agreed, phoenics. I also have to give kudos to Grant Gustin for his facial expressions as well (his reaction when she told him she went on a date, and then when she said she wouldn't have been able to move on without his support- that one was hilarious), because we aren't getting any insight into what Barry thinks about Iris either. I don't even think those looks were written, I think that was just him deciding to show slight discomfort. Are we supposed to assume he's still in love with her or what? They haven't told us that either since the E2 episodes.

Edited April 29, 2016 by ruby24

[ottoDbusdriver]

Paraphrasing E-2 Harrison Wells: "Barry, it's all your fault that Zoom can move between worlds any time he wants."

Except that last episode Zoom was waltzing back and forth between E-1 and E-2 BEFORE he got Barry's speedforce.  So, WTF Harry ?

E-2 Zoom/Hunter is in love with Catilin -- really ?  Except it was the time remnant of Zoom/Jay Garrick that kind of fell for Caitlin.  So how does that roll over into Zoom having feelings for Caitlin ?

Edited April 29, 2016 by ottoDbusdriver

[bettername2come]

Quote

E-2 Zoom/Hunter is in love with Catilin -- really ?  Except it was the time remnant of Zoom/Jay Garrick that kind of fell for Caitlin.  So how does that roll over into Zoom having feelings for Caitlin ?

I don't think it was time remnant the whole time. Just when Zoom needed to be two places at once. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

This may make me sound like a cold and heartless person, but when Griffin kept talking and talking and talking, accusing Harry of doing things that Wells did, and he was trying to explain it wasn't him, I wish Harry would have just slammed something against his head. I just wanted him to SHUT UP.

I don't like sad and sulky Barry. I don't like how this show is handling a powerless Barry. Hell, even when Clark lost his powers or his powers went bonkers during the solar flare, Smallville handled it and did it so much better.

Frankly, because I just rewatched Justice League: Flashpoint Paradox, I didn't and don't have an issue about how they're going to try and get Barry's powers back. From the previews, you can see he's contained.  Also, if I may, in the movie, the first time they tried to replicate how Barry got his powers, it failed and he ended up with third degree burns. Barry told "Batman" they would keep doing it, because, Reverse Flash and the Armageddon that was happening. And it worked the second time around.

So, like, was Barry's appearance of Arrow supposed to happen before he lost his powers or after? Cuz when he left the gravesite, he sped off. And yes, I did watch, and good grief, was it boring and...boring.

[phoenics]

29 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

This may make me sound like a cold and heartless person, but when Griffin kept talking and talking and talking, accusing Harry of doing things that Wells did, and he was trying to explain it wasn't him, I wish Harry would have just slammed something against his head. I just wanted him to SHUT UP.

I don't like sad and sulky Barry. I don't like how this show is handling a powerless Barry. Hell, even when Clark lost his powers or his powers went bonkers during the solar flare, Smallville handled it and did it so much better.

Frankly, because I just rewatched Justice League: Flashpoint Paradox, I didn't and don't have an issue about how they're going to try and get Barry's powers back. From the previews, you can see he's contained.  Also, if I may, in the movie, the first time they tried to replicate how Barry got his powers, it failed and he ended up with third degree burns. Barry told "Batman" they would keep doing it, because, Reverse Flash and the Armageddon that was happening. And it worked the second time around.

So, like, was Barry's appearance of Arrow supposed to happen before he lost his powers or after? Cuz when he left the gravesite, he sped off. And yes, I did watch, and good grief, was it boring and...boring.

I don't like sad and sulky Barry either - but at least he wasn't as bad as in the S2 premiere.  I do miss S1 dorky Barry though - it feels like he hasn't been seen in forever.

As for Flashpoint, there wasn't a particle accelerator - just lightning and a mix of chemicals.  Which would only affect Barry.  If he's willing to risk 3rd degree burns only for himself then okay.  The difference here on this show is that they are using the wave from the particle accelerator explosion to re-create the lightning strike + chemicals that gave Barry his powers - and actually I think on this show they are ignoring the whole chemicals thing.  It's just the particle accelerator explosion plus lightning that they are using as the thing that gives Barry his connection to the speed force.  I'm kinda bummed we won't see something like the canon about how Barry Allen actually CREATES the speed force, but maybe they will still do that?  Dunno.

I didn't watch Arrow - but I heard from some fans on tumblr that the episodes are out of sequence now.  I remember seeing an identical promo of Arrow LAST week when 2.18 of The Flash aired and the SAME promo for Arrow aired in this week's flash, but apparently the Arrow episode didn't air until last night (Wednesday).  I think The CW screwed up and that episode wasn't supposed to air until much later or maybe The Flash wasn't supposed to start back up when it did?  I have no idea.  This is why all of these crossovers can get annoying.  

[GHScorpiosRule]

@phoenics, I know that chemicals and lightening were used in Flashpoint, and maybe I'm misremembering, but I don't recall Barry being in a tube like thingy the first time, when the particle accelerator went kablooey. And like I posted upthread, from the previews, Barry is contained. Plus, it was Harry's idea to do this to get Barry's powers back. Even though Barry was a dumb shit for giving it away. 

I, too, want my adorkable Barry from Season One back!

Edited April 29, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[ruby24]

36 minutes ago, phoenics said:

I don't like sad and sulky Barry either - but at least he wasn't as bad as in the S2 premiere.  I do miss S1 dorky Barry though - it feels like he hasn't been seen in forever.

 

THIS!!! I really, really hope they remember this for Season 3. He was the reason I liked the show in the first place. I don't find him likable when he's like this. He was so sweet and endearing back then. Re-watch any Season 1 episode and you'll see what a massive difference that made.

I just hope they realize this and figure out a way to bring that guy back for the next season. The show needs to be fun again.

Edited April 29, 2016 by ruby24

[phoenics]

Just now, ruby24 said:

THIS!!! I really, really hope they remember this for Season 3. He was the reason I liked the show in the first season. I don't find him likable when he's like this. He was so sweet and endearing back then. Re-watch any Season 1 episode and you'll see what a massive difference that made.

I just hope they realize this and figure out a way to bring that guy back for the next season. The show needs to be fun again.

I feel like they gave dorky Barry + Iris' storylines to Patty and thus we haven't seen or heard from dorky, sweet and enduring Barry since.  Barry definitely seems more grown up and in charge now, but I do miss sweet, dorky Barry.

I think they were trying to make Barry "grow up" so they could eventually shift to WA (which is why Patty was there in the first place - to transition Barry - which is why the dorkiness got transferred into Patty so Barry could look like the mature one or the one in control), but I do miss dorky Barry.

I'd even take Petty!Barry - although in 2.18 when Barry tried so hard NOT to react to Iris telling him she was going on a date with Scott (he was low key petty when he pretended he didn't know who she'd be going out with when he KNEW)... that thumbs up was kinda hilarious.  It's like he did right by helping her get past the Eddie thing, but he looked like he was mentally kicking himself at the thought of her going out on a date with Scott, lol.

That whole sequence was hilariously awkward with two folks lying to themselves and each other about their feelings.

[GHScorpiosRule]

NO! To Patty! Just bring Kara over from Supergirl for an episode, and we'll get smart, cute, fun and ADORKABLE Barry back!

Edited April 29, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[ruby24]

13 minutes ago, phoenics said:

I feel like they gave dorky Barry + Iris' storylines to Patty and thus we haven't seen or heard from dorky, sweet and enduring Barry since.  Barry definitely seems more grown up and in charge now, but I do miss sweet, dorky Barry.

I think they were trying to make Barry "grow up" so they could eventually shift to WA (which is why Patty was there in the first place - to transition Barry - which is why the dorkiness got transferred into Patty so Barry could look like the mature one or the one in control), but I do miss dorky Barry.

 

I don't care for grown up Barry. I loved the dorky, sweet one. That was the reason he was so adorable. You wanted the dorky, sweet Barry to have what he wanted. "Grown Up Barry" is too dour and miserable, and not as easy to root for.

I'd even take the guy who was on Supergirl, because that wasn't Barry from this season either.

If Barry and Iris get together and he's the same Barry we've seen all season, then he'll just be halfheartedly into it, and I don't even know if I'll care as much. The Barry from last year I really wanted to see be with Iris, because you could see and feel how much he adored her and was excited to be with her. This one is just meh about everything. He's probably not even going to be that happy when she confesses. How am I supposed to root for that?

Edited April 29, 2016 by ruby24