S02.E12: A Rose By Any Other Name

[Tara Ariano]

Camilla digs her claws deeper into Hakeem, while the rest of the Lyon family work to get him back on their side, but without realizing Empire's acting CEO has his own plan. Meanwhile, Jamal receives backlash from his fans; and Andre and Rhonda's marriage is tested.

[Primetimer]

Empire REALLY wants you to describe this episode as 'Shakespearean.'

Read the story

[SimoneS]

I enjoyed this more than last week. Lucious is so evil. I don't know why Cookie has forgotten this. Terrence Howard was great in that final scene with Naomi Campbell who can cry like nobody's business.

 

Hakeem, you are right no one thinks that you can run Empire because you cannot. However, the sex tape with her confession about using Mimi was well done.

 

Jamal is so spoilt at times. He put himself in this jam not Lucious. He needs to figure a way out. 

 

Dre needs to go the doctor, not the preacher. I hope Cookie busts that preacher's ass soon.

 

Tatiana looked very sexy tonight. Not sure what I feel about her song.

Edited April 7, 2016 by SimoneS

[tennisgurl]

Take your med Dre! Take your damn meds! 

 

I liked this one a lot. I liked seeing Rhonda interact with the family a bit more, and help with their plans. Plus, we got to see her doing her job! 

 

Lucious is one scary evil motherfucker. That speech to Camilla was chilling. That being said, I certainly didn't feel bad for her. She is awful as hell. 

 

They get me ever freaking time with Jamal and that Pepsi commercial. 

[wanderingstar]

Lucious, you are a vile excuse for a human being.

 

The flash mob was so out of the blue, I actually laughed out loud when I saw it.

 

I liked Jamal's "Like My Daddy" song.

 

I wish Tiana had more to do.

 

I enjoyed Andre and Rhonda tonight.

 

Nice to see Carol again!

Edited April 7, 2016 by Gillian Rosh

[Actionmage]

Becky/Gabby looked really good in that green dress/green jacket!

 

Rhonda, you need a more progressive pastor who can reason with Dre and shut down that mess that feels that it is entirely appropriate to ambush a still-grieving mother over an unsubstantiated accusation of adultery. That got me so mad on behalf of pastors who properly help their congregations. Cookie needs to know about this; she knows people. Probably church people too. 

 

Hi, Freda-bye, Freda!  I was kind of interested in the video Lucious wanted; it sounded interesting, even without the stuff Cookie wanted to cut.

 

Some days, it just doesn't pay to be Cookie. First, she had to deal with her sons. Then Carol and Porsha. Then all the other headaches of work. Then Lucious and Andre in quick succession. Then Camilla, her sons again, then Lucious again. Granted, that was over a couple of days, but no wonder Cookie is curt and a bit grumpy. TPH is still killin' it as Cookie, so I will be here for that all day.

 

Apparently Camilla doesn't choose to remember that the guy she's cheating with thought the height of cool was to give her a necklace of his name. I am not sorry about anything that happened to her this episode, except for Lucious being creepy and probably illegal- accessory after the fact. If he doesn't turn his evidence over to the police.

 

I lost whatever potential respect I could have mustered for Jameson. That he had to be told that Lucious was hoping to torpedo his son? That this dude is so blind to who he could potentially be working with - through Jamal- that that possibility wasn't even on his radar? The obvious "haha, my son's not gay after all" "confiding" about Sky didn't tip you off? Are you thirteen, man? *sigh*  Also, Jameson just believes Jamal's "my dad will torpedo me just to win an award" doesn't get a side-eye?  I just want the man to be portrayed consistently as a savvy rights activist. That he seemed so credulous over the whole Sky thing was disappointing. I'm a Fitchner fan and had just finished an hour where smart characters had to be Dumb For Plot.

 

The music for this episode was good, but the last number, the one for Andre, was really nice. 

 

*g* So, as per his rap, is Hakeem a Lyon again or is he only dba (doing business as) Hakeem?

 

Almost forgot: I am surprised that Lucious' crime scene booties aren't gold.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Actionmage

[bobbyjoe]

TV's lesbian bloodbath continues.  At this point, I'm worried Ellen will be introducing a guest when the producers drop an anvil on her.

[maraleia]

Here is the list of queer women characters killed so far on TV with Mimi and Camilla added to the list. http://www.autostraddle.com/all-65-dead-lesbian-and-bisexual-characters-on-tv-and-how-they-died-312315/

I haven't even watched these last two episodes and I'm not going to because I'm out. Ilene "Fucking" Chaiken strikes again.

[Syndicate]

Andre's creepy pastor is who pushed Rhonda down the stairs hoping to kill her because he wants Andre, NAKED AND READY! Just a thought! I mean, this show is FILLED with gay content and innuendo.

[Dee]

Green must be the go-to color for the second half of this season.

 

Last week Naomi was stunning in emerald green, and now this week Gabby was equally striking in that deep forest green dress.

 

Add in how stunning Taraji looked in every scene in this episode, particularly during Hakeem's press conference, and Tiana's hand-beaded see-through catsuit and it becomes crystal clear that Empire's wardrobe department deserves all the awards.

[paulvdb]

I liked the flip-flop flash mob and Jamal's reaction that that wasn't even his song.

 

And of course Lucious is still evil and tv shows keep killing their lesbian characters.

[Artsda]

Jamal's daddy issues song was better than most of his recent stuff. But his performance was so awkward, I liked the crowd not being into it. Jamal needs to be serious and not act like a brat.  Speaking of brat's, Hakeem is being taken seriously as a CEO? He has no clue what he's doing. 

 

The flash mob scene being sent by Lucious was just weird. It was like they threw that in there randomly without anything. Lucious organizing a flash mob? 

 

I laughed out loud at Cookie's Ray J comment to Hakeem.

 

Andre needs to take his meds, Rhonda should be so more angry. After all she's been through, she's going to his therapist and he can't even take his meds?

 

Lucious was great at the end with Camilla. 

[skotnikov]

Another week of  awful writing. They jumped the shark with the whole Camilla storyline, didn't they? It really looks like  the showrunners were so overwhelmed with the success  of the first season which they didn't expect that now they just don't know what to do next to maintain the same high level of hype.  

[Dee]

Jamal needs to be serious and not act like a brat.  Speaking of brat's, Hakeem is being taken seriously as a CEO? He has no clue what he's doing. 

 

Jamal and Hakeem are both brats.

 

For all of the abuse Lucious foisted upon Jamal as a child, he at least respects his middle son as a musician. And he'd planned to have Hakeem as his successor until Hakeem proved too immature to shoulder the responsibility.

 

If any of Lucious kids has a valid reason to act like a brat, it's Andre.

 

What he lacks in musical talent, he more than makes up for in business acumen, and as he told his brothers it was his tremendous work ethic that played a large part in Empire becoming such a massive success. But Lucious, has absolutely no use for his eldest son outside of Andre being a durable workhorse.

 

Jamal is Lucious favorite whipping boy and Hakeem is Lucious ideal heir apparent, but at least their Dad sees them enough not to deem them interchangeable.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Dee

[Neurochick]

I liked this episode and I'm glad that they got rid of the Naomi Campbell character and didn't drag that storyline through the rest of the season.

 

I think Camilla seduced Mimi because she wanted to get back at Lucious, for making her leave Hakeem.  I wonder if Camilla was really a lesbian or did she marry Mimi to kill her and get her shares of the company.

 

That's interesting about queer women getting killed, I guess that's like horror movies where the black person is always the first person killed. 

 

I can't wait to watch it again.

[Milz]

Best scene for me was the family's reaction to Hakeem's new logo, his super-cheesetastic pose, AND the fact that was the logo used in the opening credits!

 

I'm sad that they killed Camilla because she would have made a good recurring antagonist through the series. But this is a soap, so anything can happen.

 

Who pushed Rhonda? speculation-------Initially I thought it was Anika. But I've changed my mind. I think it was L-U-C-I-O-U-S. He 'knows' Bipolar disorder is hereditary. His mom had it. Andre has it. So in Lucious' mind, the baby has a 50-50 chance of having it too. Also, he's not too fond of Rhonda. So her death would free Andre to marry someone more to Lucious' liking (because Lucious is a control-freak and wants to micromanage his Empire and his sons.)

 

Loved Cookie's hair and fashions.

[TaraS1]

I know this is an over-the-top show with tons of over-the-top scenery chewing, but the guy playing Andre is so bad to me.  He takes me out of every big emotional scene he has because I'm cringing from second-hand embarrassment. 

 

For some reason, I can't stop loving Hakeem.  He's absolutely ridiculous, but there's something about him I find endearing.  The line of the night was Cookie calling him Ray-J, lol.  

[Grace19]

So I was right last week, camilla is dead. Hakeem is a brat, but he is an entertaining brat, especially in scenes with cookie. Lucious is stone cold, his children shouldnt aspire to be like him. I don't think anika pushed rhonda and i cant wait for everybody to find out she's pregnant.

[Milz]

So I was right last week, camilla is dead. Hakeem is a brat, but he is an entertaining brat, especially in scenes with cookie. Lucious is stone cold, his children shouldnt aspire to be like him. I don't think anika pushed rhonda and i cant wait for everybody to find out she's pregnant.

 

I expect this in the credits of that episode Special Guest Star: The Broom

[luckyroll3]

Glad to see Tiana back, but I was 50-50 on her new song. I liked the music and the lyrics, but I didn't like the way the lyrics were being sung. I couldn't quite put my finger on it, it was either the cadence or the melody or a combination of the two. I don't know.

Jamal's songs were interesting. Loved when the reporter asked what exactly he was trying to say about Lucious and Jamal'so answer was basically, weren't you listening to the dam song? I just said that's not his name! Lol!

Hakeem continues to be ridiculous. I do hope that the concert is still a go, even with Camilla out of the picture, cause I'll be glad when Mexican Tapioca is off my screen for a couple weeks.

[Biggie B]

Was I hallucinating, or, when Lucious was first being visited by that reporter on the set of his video, did he mention sending "a basket of dildos" to Mimi and Camilla as a wedding gift? Or something like that? Please, someone confirm this for me!

[Artsda]

 

Who pushed Rhonda? speculation-------Initially I thought it was Anika. But I've changed my mind. I think it was L-U-C-I-O-U-S. He 'knows' Bipolar disorder is hereditary.

Didn't they show the woman's Louboutin's walking away from Rhonda. I don't think those were Lucious's feet.

[CofCinci]

This is a soap opera. Camilla isn't dead. She has to live to pop up one day exacting revenge on Hakeem when he/we least expect it.

[worleybird]

When Jamal and Becky came out of the Empire Building (supposed to be in NYC)you could see part of one of the Marina City Towers (definitely a Chicago landmark)in the upper right corner. The first thing I thought was "Oops, somebody missed that!!)

[paulvdb]

Was I hallucinating, or, when Lucious was first being visited by that reporter on the set of his video, did he mention sending "a basket of dildos" to Mimi and Camilla as a wedding gift? Or something like that? Please, someone confirm this for me!

Yes, I believe that he mentioned giving them dildos as a wedding gift.

[Lovecat]

Was I hallucinating, or, when Lucious was first being visited by that reporter on the set of his video, did he mention sending "a basket of dildos" to Mimi and Camilla as a wedding gift? Or something like that? Please, someone confirm this for me!

It was "a couple if dildos," but yup, that's what you heard!

  

Didn't they show the woman's Louboutin's walking away from Rhonda. I don't think those were Lucious's feet.

They were Louboutins (red sole), but I got the impression they were flat shoes, so I guess it could go either way.

[kpw801]

Can somebody tell me when Anika supposedly told Rhonda and Dre that she was carrying Hakeem's child?  I downloaded this episode and watched it a couple of times and missed it.

[CofCinci]

Didn't they show the woman's Louboutin's walking away from Rhonda. I don't think those were Lucious's feet.

With Cookie's dig at Thirsty's outfit this week -- I'm going to speculate that he pushed Rhonda down the stairs.

[Biggie B]

Can somebody tell me when Anika supposedly told Rhonda and Dre that she was carrying Hakeem's child?  I downloaded this episode and watched it a couple of times and missed it.

 

We haven't seen that yet. The stuff they show at the end of the episodes includes what's happening over various upcoming episodes, not just the next one. Anika wasn't in last night's episode at all.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Biggie B

[kpw801]

We haven't seen that yet. The stuff they show at the end of the episodes include what's happening over various upcoming episodes, not just the next one. Anika wasn't in last night's episode at all.

Okay.  Whew!

[phoenics]

It was "a couple if dildos," but yup, that's what you heard!

  They were Louboutins (red sole), but I got the impression they were flat shoes, so I guess it could go either way.

Those were pointy toe flats. Someone on twitter found them - I'll see if I can find that tweet, but they are definitely women's flats... no way Lucious could get his huge feet in those, lol.

[Lovecat]

Those were pointy toe flats. Someone on twitter found them - I'll see if I can find that tweet, but they are definitely women's flats... no way Lucious could get his huge feet in those, lol.

Ah, better eyes than mine!  I just registered that they were flat.

[TaurusRose]

The following scenes cracked me up:

1. Cookie slapping Hakeem upside the head again.

2. Jamal and the flip flop flash mob.

3. Cookie telling Thirsty to stop dressing like his granddad.

Surprising:

1. Lucious getting even with Camilla without actually killing her himself. I died laughing when I saw that he'd covered up his shoes with plastic.

2. Jamal outing Lucious through song.

Sorry, but I won't miss Camilla. I think Naomi Campbell is an awful actress. Everything else was kind of "meh."

[phoenics]

Ah, better eyes than mine!  I just registered that they were flat.

Twitter had better eyes than both of us, lol. All I registered when I watched was that they were red bottoms, lol.

1. Lucious getting even with Camilla without actually killing her himself. I died laughing when I saw that he'd covered up his shoes with plastic.

I never saw that! I need to go back and have a good laugh. Wish I'd seen it when it aired... probably won't be as funny to me now.

[GreekGeek]

This is a soap opera. Camilla isn't dead. She has to live to pop up one day exacting revenge on Hakeem when he/we least expect it.

I'm thinking this too. Whatever the stuff was could have been slow-acting enough for her to have time to call 911 and have her stomach pumped.

 

Rhonda, you need a more progressive pastor who can reason with Dre and shut down that mess that feels that it is entirely appropriate to ambush a still-grieving mother over an unsubstantiated accusation of adultery.

 

I thought the purpose of the sit down with the pastor was to bring Rhonda back to church after that "There is no God" remark. 

 

I was puzzled by Rhonda's attitude toward the "accident" this week. Last week she seemed to remember there was something more to it than she originally thought; this week she shuts down Andre for raising the possibility that she was pushed. I wonder if he hadn't brought the God-talk into it, would she have been more willing to explore the issue?

[Joimiaroxeu]

The flash mob was so out of the blue, I actually laughed out loud when I saw it.

Those brightly colored flip flops were insane. That was a very clever production choice.

 

It really looks like  the showrunners were so overwhelmed with the success  of the first season which they didn't expect that now they just don't know what to do next to maintain the same high level of hype.

Yep, I agree. They slowly seem to be finding their way back but most of this season is probably a wash. A takes a while to turn a ship.

 

Those were pointy toe flats. Someone on twitter found them - I'll see if I can find that tweet, but they are definitely women's flats... no way Lucious could get his huge feet in those, lol.

Thirsty probably could though...

[LaChavalina]

I hope this is the end of the stupid storyline about the gay community disowning Jamal. Last I checked, there was a "B" in LGBT. And they already knew he was once married to a women, right?

 

I'll also say, I find the dead lesbian character list a little flaky now that I looked at it. I mean, there have been an awful lot of TV deaths overall, if we're going back to 1976.

[Skyfall]

Those brightly colored flip flops were insane. That was a very clever production choice.

 

Yep, I agree. They slowly seem to be finding their way back but most of this season is probably a wash. A takes a while to turn a ship.

 

Thirsty probably could though...

The producers have said they had growing pains in the first half and they pivoted for the second half to get back to season 1 form.

[mtlchick]

"Flip, flop, flip, flippity, flop."  I will have that in my head for days. 

 

My favourite scene from season 1 was the brothers in the elevator trying to calm Dre down so I'm glad they revisited it.  Trai Byers is the unsung hero of this show.  

 

Au revoir Naomi Campbell (for now, because unless I see her on a slab that chick is not dead.)  Stay fabulous and stay out of real trouble!  

[thuganomics85]

Really needed a big laugh after events on another show.  So, thank you Hakeem, for busting out the new Empire logo that's just basically the same one, only replacing Lucious with your own face.  That is so Hakeem!  And then the show itself actually uses it for the title card!  Ha!  I know Hakeem is an obnoxious brat, but I really do love him sometimes.

 

Surprised that the Mimi/Camilla storyline is already done.  The way Mimi's death shot made it obvious that they couldn't get Marisa Tomei back for a send-off.  As for Camilla, I'm going to wait until I see her body being wheeled out, before I declare her dead.  Since Lucious seemed to just walk away right have she drank whatever that was, I can easily see her automatically throwing it back up.  Maybe she really is gone, but I have to think Lucious boasting about how Hakeem did her in, is going to come back to haunt both of them.

 

Hey, it's nice to see that the show remembers Tiana exists.  I'm sure her touring with Menage Trois is going to cause all sorts of drama.

 

Andre is starting to lose his mind again, although ironically, he's totally on point that someone actually pushed Rhonda down those stairs.  But since everyone thinks he's unstable again, no one will believe him.  Poor Andre.

 

After getting embarrassed by the most hilarious flash mob ever (flip-flops!  Oh, flash mob!), Jamal decides to go to war with Lucious, by dissing him on his new track and even letting the world know that Lucious Lyons isn't his dad's real name.  But instead of getting mad, Lucious is going to somehow try and use to his to his advantage.

 

Really, Jameson?  It never even occurred to you that Lucious was using you to hurt Jamal?

 

Cookie certainly didn't win Mother of the Day in this episode, by calling Andre and hitting Hakeem... again. 

[Eolivet]

Great episode. It's interesting the show says they're trying to get back to its season 1 roots, because it is burning through storyline at a season 1 pace. It made me realize how slowwwww the first half of season 2 was. I feel like more has happened in the first two episodes of the second half of the season than the entire first half.

 

Interesting they dispensed with the Camilla/Mimi storyline right away -- I wasn't expecting it, but there was really nowhere else to go with that story.

 

I cannot help but laugh every time they say "Boom, Boom, Boom, Boom." It just sounds like a toddler song. I think the fourth "boom" is just a bridge too far.

[darkestboy]

I wasn't expecting both Mimi and Camilla to be taken out so quickly. I guess I should complain in some respects but nah, they served their purpose, so let's move on, yeah?

 

Lucious using Jamal's outing of his real name to his advantage is very him. I don't blame Jamal for doing it as Like My Daddy was the best song this week along with Good People with Hakeem.

 

Andre seems on the verge of a breakdown but he's right about someone attacking Rhonda though so it seems strange she's dismissive of the idea now.

 

Cookie can be insensitive as hell sometimes but I loved her conversation with Rhonda about Andre though.

 

Hakeem changing the logo into his own image was tacky but funny.

 

The flip flopping attack Jamal got was imaginative but can we move on from this storyline now, please? 7/10

[RCharter]

Meh.....I never thought I'd say it, but I'm not enjoying Empire this season as much as I did the past two (I know that we are still in the second season, but after the break, it feels like a totally different season.)

 

I still don't think Hakeem deserves the treatment he is getting.  He is the only one that has effectively done anything to Lucious.  Jamal singing songs doesn't really accomplish anything.  Lucious has made a bunch of terrible decisions, refused to listen to anyone, and yet all this loyalty to him.  Yes, Camilla has control of the board, but she was pretty easy to control/take care of.  Hakeem was able to get Camilla to not only make him CEO, but to allow the rest of his family in to positions of authority and control.  And actual....real control, not just positions that Lucious gave them and then ignored them.  

 

Could Jamal have even brought that song out if Lucious was in charge?

 

And Cookie calling Andre crazy, right after he lost his baby and is clearly going through issues?

 

The three things I loved about Cookie were her fashion sense, her love for her boys, and her intelligence.  Yet, to me, she is losing all three.  Starting with that Mrs. Roeper outfit she had on at the start of the episode.  Her final two outfits were cute, but it used to be that Cookie was always looking fierce.  Old Cookie would not have even purchased those old lady pants.  The way she has been treating her sons is also stupid to me.  Hakeem was the only son who stayed with her as she started Lyon Dynasty, yet she beats him with a broom, with her hands and I don't think its at all cute for a woman to beat her grown son.  Especially when he is just sitting there taking it and not fighting back.  Thats just domestic violence, IMO.  I guess she wanted to be under Lucious' thumb forever, as he worked to crush Lyon Dynasty and get them all back under his control.  She is calling Andre crazy, when its the one thing he is sensitive about.  And why, because he didn't get her what she wanted fast enough?  And I question the intelligence of someone who is setting it up for her crazy and controlling ex-husband to basically come and take control of the company again.  And whats even better is if Lucious takes back control of Empire, he will also control Lyon Dynasty....the ONLY thing Cookie had that Lucious couldn't control.

[RCharter]

TV's lesbian bloodbath continues.  At this point, I'm worried Ellen will be introducing a guest when the producers drop an anvil on her.

Seriously though....this would be a hilarious bit for someone like Ellen to do to bring attention to the controversy.  Anvils dropping from the sky as she darts around to avoid them.

[wanderingstar]

One moment I really liked in this episode was when Cookie was ranting at Andre about Camilla, and she flippantly threw out the word "crazy" when referring to him, she immediately apologized. I appreciated that she checked herself.

 

I also really liked the music in this ep. The music has been much stronger in season 2 than in season 1 (and I loved the music in season 1)

 

I hope this is the end of the stupid storyline about the gay community disowning Jamal. Last I checked, there was a "B" in LGBT. And they already knew he was once married to a women, right?

 

I've enjoyed the show a lot this season, but this was one of the missteps. I had no problem with Jamal hooking up with Skye, but the continued focus on it was just...silly is the word that immediately comes to mind. I just think there are other, more interesting things they can do with Jamal than talking about his sexuality.

 

Great episode. It's interesting the show says they're trying to get back to its season 1 roots, because it is burning through storyline at a season 1 pace. It made me realize how slowwwww the first half of season 2 was. I feel like more has happened in the first two episodes of the second half of the season than the entire first half.

 

I liked the first half of this season a lot, but I wonder if what you mentioned about the first half being slow was somewhat intentional. The show went from 12 to 18 episodes, so I guess in some sense, they couldn't burn through plots at the same pace they did in season 1.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Gillian Rosh

[Syndicate]

Sigh! I thought after the episode the week before last, this show was changing for the better. But nope!

[Skyfall]

Great episode. It's interesting the show says they're trying to get back to its season 1 roots, because it is burning through storyline at a season 1 pace. It made me realize how slowwwww the first half of season 2 was. I feel like more has happened in the first two episodes of the second half of the season than the entire first half.

 

Interesting they dispensed with the Camilla/Mimi storyline right away -- I wasn't expecting it, but there was really nowhere else to go with that story.

 

I cannot help but laugh every time they say "Boom, Boom, Boom, Boom." It just sounds like a toddler song. I think the fourth "boom" is just a bridge too far.

I think disposing of Camilla and Mimi was apart of the course correction they did as the mentioned they had leaned heavily on guest stars while also introducing a ton of new characters. This seemed like a good way to end a storyline while taking care of reducing the number of active characters.

[dirtypop90]

^ I agree with you, tho I'm not sure Camilla is completely gone. She might reappear. I think they may go back to using her sparingly as they did the first season. I also expect Hakeem's gf and her group to be gone after this tour with Tiana. The writers are clearly now setting up Hakeem and Laura to explode when in the first half they were being written as if Laura was his saving grace.

I do think TPTB are listening, and they will get back to focusing on the original cast: the family (I'm including boo boo kitty and Rhonda) plus Becky, porsha, and Tiana. Based on the previews, Tiana will be in two episodes back to back (didn't happen in the first half) and porsha seems to be getting her own storyline. I'm cautiously optimistic. I don't expect it to return to its season 1 glory, partly because the novelty has worn off, but I think the episodes we've seen in the back half so far are muuuuch better than what we saw in the first half.

[damnman]

When Camilla hung up the phone in her studio I thought for CERTAIN that she was going to throw it at somebody.

[phoenics]

 

The three things I loved about Cookie were her fashion sense, her love for her boys, and her intelligence.  Yet, to me, she is losing all three.

 

Totally agree that Cookie's outfits are hit or miss.  They got rid of the costume designer from the first season and I think they made a huge mistake.  Her outfits were BANGIN last season.  This season, they clearly have a "designer" who thinks that if it has a designer label on it, it's automatically better.  WRONG.

 

No way Cookie would just lose her sense of style like that either - I wish they would bring back the CD from S1.