S06.E14: Twice As Far

[phoenix780]

I didn't know there were enough dead lesbians in pop culture to make a trope.  Even if I did, I don't really see Denise's death that way because as a member of the LGBTQ and so on community I just want characters whose sexual orientation isn't a storyline, who are treated like any other characters, and I basically feel like she was.  Barely knew her, didn't see a whole lot of her with Tara (like we never really see Glenn/Maggie together), used mainly as a plot device.  I'm more bothered that she seemed to take a big step backwards into fear and stupidity this episode.  After the whole Wolf kidnapping and battle through a million zombies I kind of expect more from these people, even if going outside is a new situation.

 

I hope we get to see a bit of Carol's solo journey.  Her letter seems to suggest that she wouldn't kill to defend herself, otherwise she'd still be killing just without any backup.  I'm curious how that plays out.

 

If that was more of Negan's group...good on him for getting and keeping such a large crew together.  And for maintaining some kind of order without slaughtering everyone like our heroes have recently started to do.

[Boofish]

I do not like Abraham AT. ALL. And what he did to Rosita was filled to the brim with jackassery. HOWEVER in the world which they live he seems to truly and honestly feel connected to Sasha and I don't blame him for trying. He's got absolutely nothing to lose when life expectancy in the ZA is "4 supply runs"

[whiskeyandfeet]

When Denise was approaching that crib, I thought the show was doing me a solid by not having a dead baby or baby walker in there. I have a tough time with kids in peril on TV shows, both the character and the child actor. (See Little Dexter covered in blood in the shipping container...) But then we got the bloody baby shoe in the sink. Thanks show, you dick!

[kj4ever]

Has there been a huge Lesbian death culling on the show that I've missed?  I know Tara's other gf got it at the prison, along with the rest of their group.  I don't get why Denise dying is some big lesbian trope?  I mean really the last people that have died for awhile have been dudes, and not gay ones.  Sam, Ron, Pete, Reg, all of Negan's guys plus the three women.  Were they supposed to be lesbians or something?

[Pete Martell]

I don't think they're doing damage control on Carol, because I don't think they feel (and I don't either, really) that Carol was a damaged character. They're just developing Carol beyond a place where some of the audience can simply peg her as nothing but a badass, and I think that's organic growth. Changing a character, or having a segment of the fanbase pigeonhole a character, doesn't always mean the character itself is inherently flawed. Sometimes it's more a reflection of the audience than the actual show. Look at the people who are convinced Michonne can't and shouldn't be a sexual being or romantic option for Rick - that's not on her character, the writers or Danai Gurira, that's on a subjective (and IMO deeply wrong) interpretation. Same principle, IMO.

 

As a gay fan I just can't respect the sides the same - the fact is that almost everyone on this (predominantly heterosexual) show dies or loses someone horribly and has since the jump. The last thing I want is an exemption from that. They can and should continue to introduce more gay and lesbian characters, but if you do that on TWD then I think by definition what that means is we are as much fodder as anyone else. I call that progress. I also don't think the overall diversity on the show has gotten enough credit since at least Season 4. We're also now looking at a show where the central couple (on what is now an ensemble piece) is Rick and Michonne, and that's still a big deal.

 

I loved Denise and I hated that she died, but she isn't the first person on this show that I can say that about. AFAIC it's just something that happens on TWD. I don't know that I agree with the premise that they have to find some happy medium with the queer characters, because I don't think you can ever keep everyone happy while making TV. I think the best they can ever do is continue building those characters while also continuing to kill others, just the same as the heterosexual characters. There's a start to that now with Jesus, etc. I despise the mentality that we have to be a protected class with some sort of special dispensation (which I don't think you're espousing, this is just a general rant) and that any actual equal treatment in drama is tantamount to exploitation. I think if the hot take becomes that we must either be sainted, protected or dying nobly than we're not getting that far beyond the '90s era when the nice gays were kissing off-camera and/or dying of AIDS.

 

When I say damage control I mean the idea that she was a badass who could never feel anything because she just did what she had to do. I feel like they've had to end up taking great pains to address that concept this season. 

 

I don't think lesbian or lgbt characters should be protected, but there are so few on TV, especially in prominent roles, that fans who look up to them have few choices. And Denise was a very unique character, especially in a genre that often likes to sexualize gay women. I wish the show would have more diversity on this front, but obviously if the choice is between a lgbt character who makes a strong impression and dies within a season (and doesn't die in a way that is homophobic or punishing), and none at all, I'll take the former. I don't believe the show was unfair to her compared to straight white men, or that the show hates gay,s or other comments I've seen online. I do think part of it is just really bad timing because of The 100. I've seen some people saying they're upset because they can't believe the show would do this after The 100 did it (clearly not realizing all of this was filmed months ago), so that probably makes it even worse for fans who feel that way.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Pete Martell

[bmoore4026]

Ottis, on 21 Mar 2016 - 08:57 AM, said:

 

In that way, I suppose the show is doing something different there. After meeting group #72 that threatens Rick and gang, so far group #72 is lame. So the Negan face-to-face intro will be especially impactful, I'm guessing.

 

Unless he slips and falls during his intimidating speech.

[AngelaHunter]

Now they lost a total of three doctors. The guy at the prison who died of the virus, Hershel, and now Denise.

 

Four, counting the Porchdick. Doctors are hard to keep alive in the ZA. Maggie better start reading those medical books, since now someone who's father was a vet is the closest thing they have to a physician. She better make Glenn read them as well. He'll probably have to deliver their baby.

[kj4ever]

Four, counting the Porchdick. Doctors are hard to keep alive in the ZA. Maggie better start reading those medical books, since now someone who's father was a vet is the closest thing they have to a physician. She better make Glenn read them as well. He'll probably have to deliver their baby.

OMG it's the Doctor trope! lol

[nachomama]

Why does Dwight act like Daryl wronged him? Last time I checked, Daryl was nice to him and the two chicks, got their insulin thingy, saved them from the melted glass/growhouse walkers, they stole his bike and crossbow. He protected them to an extent from Negan until they double crossed him. Daryl didn't set his face on fire did he? Negan got them back or whatever became of them but Daryl didn't start that or finish it. And the actor was only cast because he looks like the original Dwight from the british "Office" only now named Dwight. 

[Ottis]

Which is why 3 episodes ago I finally stopped watching a show I had followed literally for years, and now I only read the summaries here and some of the comments.

Those 3 episodes are probably the best since season 2 or 4 in terms of consistency and good stuff. You might enjoy them. This one...eh.

 

 

Possibly, but I don't think so. I have no interest in Carol's mental journey, or Morgan's, or Rick's, or FPP or anyone else at this stage. Or really scary zombie scenes. Some characters I like, die. Some I don't like, keep living. Yada yada yada. We have seen this over and over.

 

What I would like is some plot direction. Where are these people going? Where does society end up? What do they benefit from as they go through these trials (they don't seem to learn much). Right now it appears society will end with a wimper, as broken survivors either can't get along, or wander off. if so, I guess that's an ending. Until we get there, however, what we are seeing is wheels spinning in mud.

 

That's why I stopped watching. Sad to see Denise go, though. I like the quiet ones.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Ottis

[Caelicola]

Four, counting the Porchdick. Doctors are hard to keep alive in the ZA. Maggie better start reading those medical books, since now someone who's father was a vet is the closest thing they have to a physician. She better make Glenn read them as well. He'll probably have to deliver their baby.

Wasn't Bob a combat medic? So, five...that's how they defeat Negan, their mere presence kills all his trained medics, and all the Saviors die of infection after getting a hangnail or a papercut.

[Vodka]

Rosita and Daryl look really good together. I wish there could be more there.

Omg yes. Never considered them as a possible pair but seeing them together made me go Heyyy, they make sense.

[jsbt]

I don't believe the show was unfair to her compared to straight white men, or that the show hates gay,s or other comments I've seen online. I do think part of it is just really bad timing because of The 100. I've seen some people saying they're upset because they can't believe the show would do this after The 100 did it (clearly not realizing all of this was filmed months ago), so that probably makes it even worse for fans who feel that way.

 

I just think there's a fine line between hearing the voice of those people and saying that voice must be upheld. I think people are entitled to feel however they do, but that doesn't make them intrinsically valid anymore than the people going on about how Richonne will destroy TWD. We may feel things but our feelings don't always contain a larger truth for anything but ourselves, and I don't want to indict a show based on subjective emotions.

 

That is admittedly a slippery slope given the many times queer voices have been silenced in media over the years, but at the same time we have come a long way. All I really want is a show that handles the characters equally and I think TWD does. I think it's also not the only show that doesn't get enough credit - or is sometimes attacked - for not using kid gloves with us. (For the record, this does not include The 100).

[jtallman]

"Tennessee waterfall" may be my new favorite expression.

The plot holes in this show, though--big enough to drive a truck through.

[Dobian]

I do not like Abraham AT. ALL. And what he did to Rosita was filled to the brim with jackassery. HOWEVER in the world which they live he seems to truly and honestly feel connected to Sasha and I don't blame him for trying. He's got absolutely nothing to lose when life expectancy in the ZA is "4 supply runs"

 

I've always liked Abraham and the actor who plays him.  I blame his jackassery with Rosita on the writers.

[jsbt]

I get why they had Abraham treat Rosita as he did in the break-up scene. But the fact is that flew over the heads of a lot of people, to the point where hopefully someone course-corrected.

Edited March 21, 2016 by jsbt

[mornnoch]

 Ditto if someone is biting your dick off. Really, I'm not a man, but I'm pretty sure the first thing Dwight would have done would be to club Eugene over the head with his gun. Eugene must have the bite force of a saltwater crocodile.

First thing that comes to my mind is what Andy Dufresne said in Darabont's "The Shawshank Redemption". Something about a death reflex biting down even more forceful.

I'm pretty sure Dwight dropped the crossbow and the pistol out of surprise/horror.

[Timetoread]

If that's what her letter said then she's been in this frame of mind for a minute.

 

She's been in this frame for more than a minute and I've been trying to point this out to no avail - Carol is not doing well and hasn't been for a while.  Badass Carol was an act and an acting out.  People were so enamored by her ability to kill that they weren't seeing that Carol herself wasn't happy or enamored with her "new self".   And I do believe she was deeply affected by the events of the Grove, not just for having to put down Lizzie but because was too wrapped up in herself to see the signs about Lizzie that were there all along - and Mika paid with her life.  It is also worth noting that in the past week she has been beaten by two separate adult males.  I'm sure that in many ways that made her feel weak again.  The show has been dropping clues for literally years about Carol's state of mind, but the bigger message got lost in the fanfare. 

[qtpye]

I get why they had Abraham treat Rosita as he did in the break-up scene. But the fact is that flew over the heads of a lot of people, to the point where hopefully someone course-corrected.

 

 

If Abraham thought acting like a jerk would make Rosita miss him less, it was a very stupid move.  Rosita seems like a very reasonable nice woman and there was no reason to be that cruel to her.  He simply could have said his feelings have change or his feelings do not match her.  She still would be hear broken, but it would have been a much more dignified exit on his part.

 

The fact that he made her feel like she was nothing more then a post apocalyptic boot call was nasty and not in keeping with the character's usual "dolphin smooth moves".

 

I would picture something more in the line of "Listen darlin' we had a lot of fun...but you only get one short cruel life and frankly you deserve a man, who wants to hold your hand at the end of the world...and it ain't me".  He would give her a hug and talk about how young and beautiful she is and that will only be a matter of time, before she finds the right guy.

 

Is it smarmy, sure, but it is more in keeping with the way Abraham handles things.

[catrox14]

I dunno, it makes sense to me. I buy Carol not running her decision by anyone. 100% in character. Carol didn't put killing Karen and David to a committee, did she? Carol didn't tell Tyreese she was going to murder Lizzie. Carol didn't bother to fill Tyreese in on the details of her Terminus plan other than a "I'm gonna kill people." Carol was trying to leave the gang after Terminus and didn't inform anyone of that decision. Carol radioed the Saviour team to lure them to the kill floor without telling Maggie what her plan was. Carol has always done what she thought was right without asking permission.

 

As I said in my original post my issue is with her METHOD of departure, not the fact that she was leaving. I never implied she had to ask for permission. 

 

 

IMO Carol's characterization is dictated by plot vs organic character growth IMO. The show has done a piss poor job of getting into Carol's headspace and sharing that with the audience but I'll take my full reply to the Carol thread 

Edited March 21, 2016 by catrox14

[millahnna]

Rosita was acting as group medic when she, Eugene, and Abe first met the rest of our survivors.  So she could be another person who takes over medical training with the loss of Denise.

[morgankobi]

I get why Carol went walkabout.  She's hit a low in life, even lower than being married to Ed.  She's hooking up with Whiterice Redshirt, and nothing is lower than that.  She HAS to leave town to save face and find her self-pride.

Whiterice Redshirt. Heh.

 

When Daryl decided to take the long way on the road--I didn't understand his aversion to following the tracks unless it was due to his time with the Claimers--and then Denise followed him I thought Rosita was going to wind up in a heap of trouble since she followed the tracks by herself.  I'm glad that didn't happen--not then anyway.

I thought his aversion to the tracks was more about Terminus.

Edited March 21, 2016 by morgankobi

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Two Newbies Level Up Their Skills On The Walking Dead
But the experience points aren't worth it for both of them.

[apollonia666]

For what it's worth, the dead lesbian trope is a pretty well documented thing that has been written about extensively.  Google is your friend!

 

Lesbians aside, I thought for sure Carol was going to die by suicide once we started hearing the words of her note. I'm still not sure she's going to make it past the season finale. 

[Boilergal]

I took the beginning sequence to mean that Alexandria has fallen into a pretty mundane safe routine - not a whole lot to be worried about anymore.  Which is kind of made it okay for Denise and Eugene to go out on guarded runs.  I wasn't worried about Eugene or Abe at all  - but the other crew had me worried once they got out of the truck at the fallen tree, I suspected that were going to be caught in a trap.

 

Denise : if you put the stuff on the counter I can tell you what to take.

 

Me:  TAKE EVERYTHING!!! Load it up!!!

 

in the Hush room when they slow panned to the pack-n-play, I thought for sure we were going to see a behbeh zommie (3 year granddaughter loves zombies)- slightly disappointed , the shoe in the sink was more disturbing to me than a little cgi baby would have been.

 

I bent my glasses throwing my hands to my face when the arrow when through Denise's head...Show owes me new glasses, Chris Hardwick can deliver them to me!!

[natyxg]

I thought Denise's death was so sad and pointless. I got misty eyed. She was cute and a good person. Poor Tara.

 

I feel like I should know who Dwight was, like we've met him before, but I have zero recollection of him.

[Ouisch]

Why was Daryl constantly shifting gears in that truck while they were driving on a straight stretch of ice- and snow-free road? And wouldn't a guy who knows how to hotwire a vehicle, repair a motorcycle, etc, know how to drive a stick? Where did Morgan get all those nicely symmetrical cinder blocks, enough to build a nice-sized prison cell? Not to mention the frame for the door, the hinges, etc. Is there a toilet in the cell, or are they going to provide prisoners with a bucket, giving prisoners a potential weapon (tossing their waste at the person bringing their food and overpowering them)?

 

I guess I tend to sweat the small stuff...

[Eyes High]

I get why Carol went walkabout. She's hit a low in life, even lower than being married to Ed. She's hooking up with Whiterice Redshirt, and nothing is lower than that. She HAS to leave town to save face and find her self-pride.

I know that this was written tongue planted firmly in cheek, but apart from Glenn, Tobin is the best heterosexual boyfriend on the show at present. He is kind to Carol, offering her sincere appreciation and affirmation, he doesn't flirt with other women, he isn't involved with anyone else, he is genuinely romantically interested in Carol, and Carol was his first choice. That puts him ahead of Abraham, Spencer, and yes, even Rick. (As much as I love Richonne, would it have ever happened had Jessie lived?) Carol did well.

I love Daryl, but there is not one scrap of evidence in the show to suggest that he is romantically or even sexually interested in Carol.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Eyes High

[seacliffsal]

I see Denise as being totally responsible for her own death and the endangerment of Daryl and Rosita. They clearly told her they didn't want her to go and she basically told them she would go alone. So, they got involved to save her from her own stupidity. Then she criticizes Daryl's driving-which maybe the transmission had problems and it wasn't that he couldn't drive a stick, just that this stick was problematic (and why would they take such a LOUD car in the first place?). I think she felt slighted when she said that she would tell them which medications to take and they were all like 'we'll take everything...' so, she looked for something to do which did not end horribly in the store (but I kept expecting it to). The whole 'let me get a cooler' was so inappropriate. Do they tailgate? Do they need a cooler that only fits a 6 pack? What the heck? The reality is that I'm glad that she's the only one from Alexandria who died. She knew she was the only doctor, yet she just had to prove that she could go on runs and kill zombies. It was as if she felt she was the smartest one in Alexandria and knew better than all of the experienced survivors. And then the monoloque...again, she knew best...

[phoenix780]

Four, counting the Porchdick. Doctors are hard to keep alive in the ZA. Maggie better start reading those medical books, since now someone who's father was a vet is the closest thing they have to a physician. She better make Glenn read them as well. He'll probably have to deliver their baby.

Or maybe she should stop reading medical books, if doctors are taken out as they are.  

[catrox14]

 

As much as I love Richonne, would it have ever happened had Jessie lived?

 

Yes it would have happened because Rick was not in love with Jessie. One awkward kiss in the garage does not a love affair make. Jessie would have been nuts to get with Rick considering he killed her abusive exhusband. Rick would have been nuts to be with her for the same reason.  I think killing off Jessie was good because the writers removed the temptation for a stupid love triangle because at some point Rick was going to realize his true feelings for Michonne. 

[RedheadZombie]

I thought the same thing. I was expecting him to shoot Eugene in the head. Guess the dick bite caught him by surprise.

 

 

There's a bit of an urban legend that injury or death to the biter causes jaw lockdown.  It was at least hinted at in The Shawshank Redemption, and definitely spelled out in the Steven King short story it was based on. I have no idea if there's any truth to it.

If Eugene's bullet idea pays off he's worth this weight in mullet gold!!

I know zilch about guns and ammunition, but isn't it extremely dangerous? If the bullets aren't perfect can't they explode within the gun, and perhaps kill the human holding it? And who's going to volunteer to test them? I'm sure he will figure it all out.

[Portia]

I think my biggest objection to Abraham and Eugene is that to me they seem so broad and "comicky."  When I watch many of their scenes, I feel like I'm watching a different show, and one that isn't aimed at me. 

[ghoulina]

I love the actress who played Denise and I hate what they did to her character.

All of a sudden, she became an idiot shit for brains, who thinks putting herself in danger is worth just to prove a worthless point.  Then she babbles about Daryl reminding her "a fearless brother" and Rosita being alone and that is why they have to journey to the land of OZ to get the magical Orange Crush.

Also, now we know she came from a similar back ground to Daryl.  Beat up trucks and bad alcoholic parents,with only her brave brother giving her hope.

It's like the writer's wanted you to root for the death, because she was being ridiculous.

 

 

I don't know, maybe I'm a total oddball, but I didn't think she was being ridiculous at all. Or Eugene for that matter. I was rooting for both of them and telling their "parents" to shut up! It's kind of like how I am with my kids - you have to take risks to learn. If Eugene and Denise WANT to go out there and test themselves, let them do it! How many of our main, more adept, characters have had close calls like Denise had with the cooler? She's not going to learn what works and what doesn't if she doesn't try. She won't be confident in herself if she can't overcome a zombie on her own. I was fine with it, and I was also really touched by her speech. I was literally gobsmacked when that arrow hit her, and it's the first death I've cried over in a long while. 

[catrox14]

Just to followup. 

 

I will forgive the writers if Carol is leaving without telling anyone beforehand and via Dear CDB letter , because she's going off to infiltrate the Saviors all Ninja!Carol style.  But I'm not holding my breath at all.

[HalcyonDays]

Ah man, poor Denise. I thought for sure, she and Aaron would be the only two ASZ-ers who'd live long enough to join CDB and be a permanent fixture in the group. Focus on Denise = death.

 

Disappointed that Carol really is having a breakdown and going all Morgan. I'm tired of the whole "Life is precious, save lives" BS that Morgan is always spouting, and now Carol. Fact is, many humans are selfish and evil. We are fundamentally animals, thought some would argue with that. It will always be survival of the fittest, kill or be killed. The Morgan-attitude is just plain idiotic and dangerous in this environment. It's a weakness that endangers Carol and anyone around her. At least she actually left ASZ, as opposed to Morgan who is sucking up their resources but not contributing to the safety of the group.

 

The worst to me is that Rick has his breakdown and managed to work it out in his head. Carol did too, didn't she. In the early seasons. Now she gets another one?? Not happy.

 

What amazes me is that Carol has seen the evil that people can do to others for the past few years, yet now she wants to not kill anyone. This probably makes me a terrible person, but if I went through what she did, I sure as hell wouldn't have any love loss for most of the humans out there. It would make me MORE likely to have no qualms about taking out some thugs who deserve it, than less. *shrug*

[AngelaHunter]

Quote

Why was Daryl constantly shifting gears in that truck while they were driving on a straight stretch of ice- and snow-free road? And wouldn't a guy who knows how to hotwire a vehicle, repair a motorcycle, etc, know how to drive a stick? Where did Morgan get all those nicely symmetrical cinder blocks, enough to build a nice-sized prison cell? Not to mention the frame for the door, the hinges, etc. Is there a toilet in the cell, or are they going to provide prisoners with a bucket, giving prisoners a potential weapon (tossing their waste at the person bringing their food and overpowering them)?

 

All highly valid points. Yeah, I'm pretty sure Daryl, of all people, has driven his share of beat-up, shitty old trucks. I guess they had to make him clueless so Denise could hurry up and show hidden facets of herself before she got croaked.

 

As for Morgan's abilities to construct that entire cell, seemingly using only a hammer and a torch: best not to think about that too much.The extreme eye-rolling that results could be hazardous to your health.

 

How many of our main, more adept, characters have had close calls like Denise had with the cooler?

 

The main problem I had with the cooler is that anyone would think that something sitting inside that oven-like car, baking for two years would still be edible, or even drinkable.

Edited March 21, 2016 by AngelaHunter

[mornnoch]

Why does Dwight act like Daryl wronged him? Last time I checked, Daryl was nice to him and the two chicks, got their insulin thingy, saved them from the melted glass/growhouse walkers, they stole his bike and crossbow. He protected them to an extent from Negan until they double crossed him. Daryl didn't set his face on fire did he? Negan got them back or whatever became of them but Daryl didn't start that or finish it. And the actor was only cast because he looks like the original Dwight from the british "Office" only now named Dwight. 

Daryl gave Dwight and Sherry a choice and they made the wrong decision. They said not wanting to kneel any longer, only other chance he had was to become one of Negan's fighters, meaning a killer of innocents. Easier to hate everyone and especially blame it on Daryl.

[natyxg]

I see Denise as being totally responsible for her own death and the endangerment of Daryl and Rosita. They clearly told her they didn't want her to go and she basically told them she would go alone. So, they got involved to save her from her own stupidity. Then she criticizes Daryl's driving-which maybe the transmission had problems and it wasn't that he couldn't drive a stick, just that this stick was problematic (and why would they take such a LOUD car in the first place?). I think she felt slighted when she said that she would tell them which medications to take and they were all like 'we'll take everything...' so, she looked for something to do which did not end horribly in the store (but I kept expecting it to). The whole 'let me get a cooler' was so inappropriate. Do they tailgate? Do they need a cooler that only fits a 6 pack? What the heck? The reality is that I'm glad that she's the only one from Alexandria who died. She knew she was the only doctor, yet she just had to prove that she could go on runs and kill zombies. It was as if she felt she was the smartest one in Alexandria and knew better than all of the experienced survivors. And then the monoloque...again, she knew best...

 

The only way people actually learn and grow is by doing things, which is what she was trying to do: to face her fears and learn to take risks. Her arc started with her being all panicky about being a doctor, it's something Denise has been trying to overcome for a while. She paralleled Eugene in this ep.

 

I thought the thing about the transmission was about her remembering her brother and that Daryl reminded her of him.

 

At the pharmacy they heard the walker and determined that it was just one and it was stuck somewhere, so Denise forced herself to go look because she was trying to make herself face the horrors she had been sheltered from.

 

She didn't want the cooler, she was looking for Tara's favorite soda, which she had been looking for for a while (last time she asked Daryl to keep an eye out for it). It's why she told Rosita that she was just looking for "this one".

[nodorothyparker]

Why was Daryl constantly shifting gears in that truck while they were driving on a straight stretch of ice- and snow-free road? And wouldn't a guy who knows how to hotwire a vehicle, repair a motorcycle, etc, know how to drive a stick? Where did Morgan get all those nicely symmetrical cinder blocks, enough to build a nice-sized prison cell? Not to mention the frame for the door, the hinges, etc. Is there a toilet in the cell, or are they going to provide prisoners with a bucket, giving prisoners a potential weapon (tossing their waste at the person bringing their food and overpowering them)?

 

It was mentioned in their welcome to Alexandria spiel last season that there was a conveniently nearby shopping mall construction project that supplied all the materials for building the wall around the place.  Morgan's probably scavenging from there.  I'm sure it's a veritable lumber yard/hardware store with every part they'll ever need just laying around waiting for them.

 

It is a little hard to buy that Daryl and Merle wouldn't have driven a collection of beaters over the years and thus knew how manual transmissions worked.

[GreyBunny]

Yeah...never have an emotional breakthrough during the ZA. You might as well take a job being the drummer in Spinal Tap, then take a side job teaching Defense Against the Dark Arts, all the while wearing a bright red shirt while talking about your upcoming retirement party. 

...and planning a wedding in Westeros.

 

Jeez, Carol, talk about bad timing.   At this point I'm on board with just letting her go, CDB knows that there are more saviors out there who know that Alexandria is a cushy place with lots of stuff, they can't afford to send a huge rescue squad out to find her while a Big Bad is probably going to descend on their community very soon and they'll need all hands on deck to defend the place.  If anyone goes to look for her, let it be Morgan by himself because he won't kill and won't be of much use if Dwight comes back with reinforcements.

 

I loved Abe and Eugene together.  King Lear and King Lear's Fool is a great description of them.

 

[maystone]

Sorry. Wrong thread.

Edited March 21, 2016 by maystone

[Dobian]

in the Hush room when they slow panned to the pack-n-play, I thought for sure we were going to see a behbeh zommie (3 year granddaughter loves zombies)- slightly disappointed , the shoe in the sink was more disturbing to me than a little cgi baby would have been.

 

They should have had the dancing baby from Ali McBeal.  A dancing zombie baby.

[kj4ever]

I think my biggest objection to Abraham and Eugene is that to me they seem so broad and "comicky."  When I watch many of their scenes, I feel like I'm watching a different show, and one that isn't aimed at me. 

I know exactly how you feel.  I used to wish for the death of Abe and Co every week on the show that they took time from characters I loved.  Rosita has come a long was from feeling like a comic.  I think the Michonne/Sasha/Rosita scenes earlier this year (or last year?) really helped bring her out of the comic character.  Last night i think Eugene might be coming along too.

 

Abe, just no.  Ugh I can't stand him with Sasha, probably because even though I am not a shipper at all deep down I have a little shipper heart that would love to see Rick + Sasha.  Don't tell the Richonne's!

[Ocean Chick]

Carol didn't tell Tyreese she was going to murder Lizzie.

 

Actually, she did.  She just didn't say it with words.  She told him that Lizzie wasn't safe around other people (and that other people weren't safe around Lizzie), and that Lizzie couldn't be left alone.  That only leaves one other solution.  And that's why Tyreese was watching as Carol took Lizzie for her last walk.  He knew what was going down, and he agreed with it, though he'd never be able to do it himself.

[maystone]

I don't think that keeping medical personnel in the back line is a thing in the ZA. As others have listed, we already had Herschel and Bob: both of them were always front and center for the action. The only time I can remember Herschel being left behind was because by then he had only one leg, and as Daryl put it, "Sooner or later we have to run." Second-line medics like Carol and Maggie have always been fighters, too. And our introduction to the Hilltop doc was when he was being rescued with his crew outside of the Hillside compound. It kind of looks like Dr. Porch Dick was the only one who stayed safe behind walls, but then so did most of the people in ASZ at that time. So now who's left with any sort of medical knowledge/experience? Rosita. Maggie. Possibly Eric, because he seemed to be hanging around the clinic helping out Denise a lot. Maybe Dr. Hilltop will end up moving to ASZ since they're now in possession of a buttload of pharmaceuticals.

[Eyes High]

I think my biggest objection to Abraham and Eugene is that to me they seem so broad and "comicky."  When I watch many of their scenes, I feel like I'm watching a different show, and one that isn't aimed at me. 

 

I think the characters are fine, it's their appearances--brick-red dye job, handlebar moustache, dark brown dye job, mullet--and their manner of speaking which make them comicky. Josh, who has a lovely speaking voice in real life, affects a southern drawl and artificially lowers his voice for Eugene; it's fake as hell and it grates. Moreover, his diction is very elaborate and affected. Abraham uses one cornpone, almost self-parodying expression after another (whatever he said about the turd in this episode was a great example). To me, at least, there are genuine, interesting characters buried under all the ridiculousness--a cowardly nerd trying to make good, and a PTSD-afflicted ex-soldier dealing with terrible loss--but all the superficial garbage makes them very difficult to take seriously as characters.

[Ocean Chick]

I know that this was written tongue planted firmly in cheek, but apart from Glenn, Tobin is the best heterosexual boyfriend on the show at present. He is kind to Carol, offering her sincere appreciation and affirmation, he doesn't flirt with other women, he isn't involved with anyone else, he is genuinely romantically interested in Carol, and Carol was his first choice. That puts him ahead of Abraham, Spencer, and yes, even Rick. (As much as I love Richonne, would it have ever happened had Jessie lived?) Carol did well.

I love Daryl, but there is not one scrap of evidence in the show to suggest that he is romantically or even sexually interested in Carol.

 

The problem being is that the man is helpless and hopeless.  He doesn't go out on runs or do much else, from what we've seen, to help the community.  If someone else is trapped by walkers, his first instinct is to run and hide.  Which means he's gonna die, and die soon.  Does Carol need a bland, boring boyfriend who's gonna die quickly and add to her grief?  She deserves a man who can keep himself alive for a length of time, and who won't bore her to death.  RIck has his problems, but being boring ain't one of them.  Spencer at least is cute and has a killer bod.  Abe is amusing with his turn of phrases.  Tobin's got none of these attributes.  And I'm not even bringing Daryl into the conversation.  The writers need to bring in a kick-ass man to ASZ just for her - good looking and handy with the weapons.

[Eyes High]

The problem being is that the man is helpless and hopeless.  He doesn't go out on runs or do much else, from what we've seen, to help the community.  

I disagree. Tobin recognized that Abraham was a more fit leader for the construction crew and stepped down without resenting Abraham for it; a "hopeless" type would have blamed everything on Abraham. Tobin opposed Carter's plan to go against Rick. Tobin helped out with the herd diversion plan. Tobin told Rick that Rick had been right all along about the need to fight, that he was prepared to fight, and urged Rick not to give up on Alexandria. He also took part in the walker massacre, when he could have easily cowered in safety and let others do the dirty work. He is not and may never be a Rick type--and frankly, not even Carol is a Rick type, given her slow breakdown this season--but "helpless and hopeless"? No.

 

Spencer at least is cute and has a killer bod.  Abe is amusing with his turn of phrases.  Tobin's got none of these attributes.

He has something they don't appear to have: genuine kindness and warmth. I can see why Carol would appreciate that far more in a partner than someone with a clever turn of phrase or a killer bod. Besides, Tobin appears to be well-built. He works construction, after all.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Eyes High

[panthergirl13]

Ugh I cant stand the writing on this show!!! The action sequences are usually well done and exciting but these people do NOT talk or act like human beings.  Everything is so 'symbolic' and over the head -- there is no subtlety.  Now all of a sudden Carol does a total 180 and is peace out??????

I really don't know why I keep watching. It is SO awful. And SO boring. It's a bad show in a good show costume.