S32.E04: Signed, Sealed, And Delivered

[Trick Question]

The moronic Brawn tribe didn't like Alecia from day one, yet they kept her through TWO tribal councils.  Hey idiots --- you made your beds, lie in it.  D'you think Darnell or Jennifer would've been more useful to the game?  This is why players shouldn't get too cute with the "let's take out a threat early" thinking when it's only six-person tribes.  You need to win challenges first and foremost, and with just six people per team, it's very easy for a tribe to fall into a big rut.  In fact, I think just about every time Survivor has started with 6x6x6, the result has been one tribe getting more or less decimated before a shuffle.

 

What really blew my mind about that brutal reward challenge was that after this torturous experience led to three downed players and one medivac, it was immediately followed up with another physically-taxing challenge for immunity.  WTF?  Who made that call?  Even if you have the challenge set up, this is where you make a judgement call and swap it out for a gross food challenge or a memory game or something.

 

I feel like Debbie is reliving Coach and Phillip's multi-season arcs within the span of four episodes.  She's quickly gone from a total joke to showing some game smarts to actually being a borderline sympathetic character.  As annoying as she is (the 'go Frontal Lobes!' gimmick needs to go), am I crazy for thinking that Debbie is getting a vague winner's edit at this point?

[cooksdelight]

Just once, I'd like them to go to a cold climate. Ice fishing, skating (that would be a hoot), building an igloo....this episode solidified why the heat can kill. Ooooh, the wilds of British Columbia!!

Agreeing with what someone earlier said....they had two chances earlier to vote off Alicia, and didn't. If she was that annoying, why not?

[Nashville]

I'm inclined to cut Medical some slack on their response - for several reasons, actually, but one primary:
Nobody dropped DURING the Challenge.

• Debbie didn't start indicating distress until several minutes after Brains had completed their first-place win.  And yes, it was Joe the Ex-FBI Guy who noticed her deteriorating condition and called for Medical - not Dr. Do-Little.
• After securing Beauty's second-place win, Caleb was walking around around for at least a minute or two before he collapsed/laid down - at which time Medical was still focused on Debbie.
• Cyd also didn't display any signs of illness immediately after the challenge, other than not wanting to move - and even with the benefit of the preview's foreshadowing, I initially took that as an emotional reaction to the defeat. I don't think anybody realized Cyd was truly sick until she started dry-retching.

 

In any case, I don't really fault Medical.  I think it would be perfectly reasonable to assume any major health-threatening issues would display during the challenge - not afterward, when everybody is getting the opportunity to cool down.  And especially not three at once.
 
 

I would guess that Debbie and Cydney had heat exhaustion, whereas Caleb had the much more serious heat stroke. Debbie managed to talk and Cydney managed to flop around and cry and moan and attempt to wiggle away from the cold water. They responded relatively quickly to being cooled off.

Caleb was very scary. If you look you can tell that his skin was dry, therefore he had actually stopped sweating. He just laid there all splayed out and barely conscious. The fact that his level of consciousness didn't improve and apparently his temp didn't improve even with ice at his armpits, groin, and trunk. That's a very bad sign.

Also scary as hell were Caleb's numbers on the monitors.  I've already deleted the episode off my DVR, but if I recall correctly:

• At one point Caleb's temperature was registering 105 degrees Fahrenheit, and that's dangerous.  Anything over 103 and you're getting into seizure territory.
• His blood pressure was initially something like 146/96 - which for a healthy young man is awful dern high.
• Scarier, though, was when his blood pressure started to crash - didn't catch his diastolic number, but his systolic suddenly dropped from the 140s down to something like 114.  THAT was when Medical called for a medevac - they were afraid his heart might fail on them right then and there.

 

 

Cydney wasn't nearly as bad as Caleb. She had enough energy to cry loudly, moan, writhe, etc. and I did see her vital signs being taken a couple of times.

Agreed.  Plus, Cyd's panicky vocalizations, scary though they looked/sounded, were more in line with major dehydration, not heatstroke.

 

I wouldn't call the IV start sloppy. They probably used a huge needle and had no care to make it look pretty. The medics/Doctor looked scared. Which made me scared.

From some of the other things Medical was saying at the time, I gathered they were simply going to jam Caleb with the biggest gauge needle they had and run chilled saline into him WFO to bring his core temp down - and in that moment, they didn't give a flying fuck how ugly it looked.  And good for them.

[Richness]

This was a very bad episode of Survivor. People nearly died, and others are being major bullies. That was not fun to watch.

Since I never watch Big Brother, I had a very favorable opinion of Caleb here. I hated to see him or anyone medivaced out. When he returns, maybe he should transform Beast Mode Cowboy into something a little more reserved so he doesn't kill himself.

Unfortunately, my dislike of Tai grew a little bit. I know Caleb is sexy, but stop obsessing over him. While I know he wanted to help, he really should have backed a little further away from Caleb so the medical team could get better access. I think JiffyPop was about ready to scratch Tai's eyes out so he could get closer. As someone else joked, I'm really surprised he didn't try to administer mouth to mouth. I find his Caleb obsession more creepy than endearing.

Speaking of that scene, did Survivor fire their crotch bulge blurer? It doesn't bother me since they also show boobs nearly falling out of skimpy bikinis, but I'm just surprised that the men's crotches no longer get blurred. Anyway, moving on.

My opinion of Debbie, who I think is crazy with her microscopic super eye vision and a billion and one jobs, flipped several times this episode. It started with my usual dislike with her mastermind exclamations at the top of the episode. However, she actually became a little more tolerable when she was being forthright during her talking head after her heat incident. Then she turned the crazy back on again with her brainy cheers. Actually, she better count her blessings that the NBA player isn't on her tribe.

Speaking of the douche, the jerks continue to be bullies. While everyone is focusing on their similarities to Dan Foley, I'm actually thinking the NBA dick's "cheerleader" slam was almost as bad as Dan's partner in douchedom's "You have no soul." Not that I want to spend any more time on their dogging of Alecia, I have to wonder why we didn't see anything back at their camp between the Immunity Challenge and Tribal Council. Was it just more of the same? Did nothing of importance happen?

With that said, I'm not sorry to see Alecia go. While she didn't deserve the ugly treatment that she was getting from the jerks, she definitely personified the dumb blond aspect. Like the douches, I wanted her to shut up as well. Actually, I'm glad she's gone so I don't have to hear her or see her occasionally weird facial expressions again.

While I was amused to see the smugness wiped off the ER doctor's face, I have to admit he did a remarkable job of solving that rope puzzle once they traded him in. Still don't like him though.

[ren]

Rare Fauxbama sighting durving evac.

 

Edited March 10, 2016 by ren

[millennium]

Alecia did absolutely nothing to warrant the heinous way she was treated by Hans and Franz.  I don't care if she was annoying or clueless or whatever.   There can't be any "blame the victim" here.   One of those assholes describes himself as ex-military and goes all "leave no man behind" when it comes to Sydney's heat stroke but then he publicly treats Alecia like shit.   The other, Mr. Sportsmanship, picking on a woman.  What a couple of sad excuses for Y chromosomes.

 

Sydney's a real piece of work too.     She instigated the scene last week that resulted in a scary physical struggle between Kyle and Alecia.  This week she just sat there and smirked while the two apes tag-teamed the poor woman. 

Edited March 10, 2016 by millennium

[loki567]

Well, the way Survivor's editing works, I get a feeling that Scot and Jason's behavior isn't going to improve. If it did, the editors probably would have just skipped over their behavior against Alecia since she's gone relatively early. But since they've established they're assholes, more than likely they're going to act like even bigger assholes to someone else moving forward. I'm going to guess they're going to clash with the Beauty girls since they seem like a pretty tight women's alliance. 

[helent]

Pretty sure that was Joe. He spotted that she was not ok and was dogged about getting her help, ignoring the fact she was telling him not to (and slurring her words, another indicator she needed help pronto). This was entirely production's fault. They should have been hovering over every contestant and enforcing breaks when the challenge kept dragging on. Contestants should not have to be their own health advocate, or fight for each other to get proper medical attention. Debbie may have the constitution of 10000 horses, but she's still older. If they'd let her keep on like Caleb and Cydney she would have gone down harder and may never have bounced back.

The teams didn't even get to move into the shade once they were done with the challenge.

 

Scott to Alecia : I found two balls, what have you got?  Wow. So much to encourage your team. 

And when it's fifty per cent luck whether you find a ball or someone else does (although Alecia's kicking-dirt approach was pretty weak).

[phlebas]

Well, shit.  I guess the Cinnamon Challenge really CAN kill you.

[jzygayle]

In other words he was nothing but a glorified cheerleader.

And from what we can tell, he sucks at that, too.

[Bryce Lynch]

That was a very difficult episode to watch.

Alecia could be the underdog but there's something in her that I can't sympathize. So everyone on the Brawn deserves each other.

I am liking the Brains and Beauty tribes. Aubry, Debbie and Tai are my favorites as of the moment.

If Alicia (Australia) and Tasha had a baby, that would be Cydney.

Scott to Alecia : I found two balls, what have you got? Wow. So much to encourage your team.

Ageee on Alecia. I liked her earlier and I thought the guys were out of line in the sandpit, but she really annoyed me when she felt the need to bicker on and on about it, while Cydney was trying to recuperate and after Caleb had nearly died.

I still despise Debbie. She is showing herself to be a competent strategic player but she is still annoying, delusion, self important and a scoundrel.

[vibeology]

Like everyone else here I get no pleasure from seeing so many players in physical distress. And the to see those assholes come at Alecia was equally painful. There was nothing fun about this episode.

I really hate Debbie so I want to make sure this comes out right but if she weighed 98lbs at the start of the season, how the hell does she expect to make it to the end? I get the sense she's super into fitness and is in good shape but considering the weight loss that contestants consistently deal with, she'll collapse again. What may be a healthy weight in the real world probably isn't on this show.

Now for the catty: she was worried she's embarrass her daughters by having heat stroke. Please, I would think after mommy was charged with falsifying water tests a little heat stroke is nothing.

[Bryce Lynch]

The cruel irony of it is that after the tribes nearly killed themselves for the kitchen supplies they will only get the benefit of them for a couple of days due to the tribe swap. It was truly foolish to pay that big a physical price for such mediocre and fleeting rewards (especially the 2nd place one).

I wonder if it was designed as a sort of intelligence test to see who would figure out it wasn't worth it, or if the tribes were just much worse at digging than expected.

[Bryce Lynch]

someone's gonna get fired for devising that very stupid challenge on extemely hot temperature.......and cbs will get sued if thsikeeps up.

I disagree especially given that it was a reward challenge. Nobody was going home if they lost or quit. If the idiots choose to get heat stroke for some pots and pans, spices and coffee, instead of pacing themselves, taking breaks in the shade or just giving up it is on them, not the designers.

[Daisy]

There is something in their contracts that they can't help a fellow castaway if they are a health care professional is what I heard

 

 

that must be new because in Guatemala, Margaret was Florence Nightingale when Bobby Jon, Judd and Jim were all suffering from heat exhaustion/dehydration etc.

[ghoulina]

Wow, that was really really hard to watch. Ultimately I knew everyone would be okay, because I know I would have heard about it if someone died on freaking Survivor. But in that moment, watching it, I was terrified. I'm not ashamed to admit I had my hand over my mouth the entire time and was crying along with them. Three. THREE freaking people need medical after a challenge. That was just awful. 

 

I hope this made them rethink some of their challenges. I know Survival isn't supposed to be a walk in the park. And I know when you sign up for this show you accept that it's going to be grueling, and you can get hurt. But damn. If it were just one person, okay. But three people? That shows that you've gone too freaking far, IMO. If you're going to pick a location that is THAT hot and intense, have the challenges early in the morning, or later on towards evening. They did a night challenge last year in the Second Chance season. Didn't they do one in season one as well? Not a bad idea. I mean, at the end of the day, you don't want people to freaking die. 

 

I just felt so bad for poor old Beast Mode. He won them that challenge and then he got pulled from the game. I know he had so much more to give, and it was sad seeing how devastated his tribe was. (Well, except for Nick. Because he has no feelings and I think it took all of his efforts to try and comfort the girls and look concerned.) I know a lot of people hate Caleb, and I understand why. But I always sort of felt badly for him, like he had poor social skills and self awareness and didn't MEAN any harm. Anyhow, I'm just glad he's okay and I hope he gets to play again some day. 

 

I know they are going to keep filming during these incidents, so the viewers can get an idea of what happened, but it made me really uncomfortable when the lead medic guy is literally trying to keep people alive and Jeff is sitting there, "So tell us what's going on". We don't need a damn narration, let the dude focus! You can do a voice over in editing if you think the viewers need a play by play. 

 

So Debbie also went to Ranger school? WHAT hasn't this woman done???

 

VERY awkward back at Brawn tribe. Cydney is just trying to recoup and she's got two buffoons and an airhead yelling in her ear. Look, I agree that Alecia is pretty useless. We haven't really seen her be good at one thing yet. But she tries. Sometimes she just kicks sand around, which seems pretty useless. But it's not likely she's intentionally throwing challenges or being an ass to everyone, so I just don't get the point of being SO nasty to her. Jason talks about wanting his daughters to be strong and independent, but he's not setting a very good example for them, as far as what they should tolerate from a man. 

 

And I didn't think her "I tried" right after the challenge was an "*I* tried...and the rest of you didn't". It was more about knowing that the loss was immediately going to be blamed on her and saying, "Well, I did try, sorry we didn't win". It just seems like they have to take everything she does and make it some big affront. 

 

I'll be glad when the tribes swap/merge/etc. because I really want to see someone put Bounty and Lurch in their places. 

[Big Mother]

I have this weird anticlimactic letdown this morning. Caleb's medavac had been spoiled for months and weeks, and i was so stressed for the whole week leading up to the episode. I watched the post-challenge drama again last night and was crying again. Now the rest of the season feels almost empty to me. Caleb got the super-saintly edit because of the medevac; who knows how he woudlve been portrayed had he been the first-merge boot or something. Anyway, i just realized another thing: Caleb's bad 'edit' on BB came more from his pompous, self-centered diary room sessions. his confessionals on Survivor were completely different. he probably grew up a little... and having a serious girlfriend has centered him too.

 

If he gets to play survivor again that'll be really interesting; he'll join the team of 'three timers' in the CBS reality show circuit. The Twinnies are the only others I can think of who did a regular show, an all stars, AND another show. (TAR and then Survivor.) 

[Big Mother]

This tweet explains a lot.

 

https://twitter.com/47PB/status/707823360038866944

 

Peter Baggenstos
‏@47PB
Hard not to step in. We can't interact with other contestsnts. Ocean water is colder than core body temperature....they couldn't hear me...

[ghoulina]

The moronic Brawn tribe didn't like Alecia from day one, yet they kept her through TWO tribal councils.  Hey idiots --- you made your beds, lie in it.  D'you think Darnell or Jennifer would've been more useful to the game?  This is why players shouldn't get too cute with the "let's take out a threat early" thinking when it's only six-person tribes.

 

This is one of my biggest pet peeves with this show. Timing. Darnell did screw up by dropping the goggles, but that was an accident and doesn't show any lack of physical competence. He would have absolutely been a better player to have at this point. I always scream at my TV when they get rid of strong physical player so early. It usually always comes back to bite you.

 

Also scary as hell were Caleb's numbers on the monitors.  I've already deleted the episode off my DVR, but if I recall correctly:

At one point Caleb's temperature was registering 105 degrees Fahrenheit, and that's dangerous.  Anything over 103 and you're getting into seizure territory.
His blood pressure was initially something like 146/96 - which for a healthy young man is awful dern high.
Scarier, though, was when his blood pressure started to crash - didn't catch his diastolic number, but his systolic suddenly dropped from the 140s down to something like 114.  THAT was when Medical called for a medevac - they were afraid his heart might fail on them right then and there.

 

Gah, just reading this is giving me chills and making me tear up again. It really could have been so, so bad. I didn't realize his temp was THAT high. I just remember hearing the medic say how "hot" he was, like literally hot to the touch. But I do remember watching the BP plummet. I have abnormally low BP on a daily basis. My systolic is often what regular people's diastolic is. But that's normal. For his to take that drastic of a plunge, it was so so scary. I'm glad they were able to get a chopper in there quickly. 

 

The cruel irony of it is that after the tribes nearly killed themselves for the kitchen supplies they will only get the benefit of them for a couple of days due to the tribe swap. It was truly foolish to pay that big a physical price for such mediocre and fleeting rewards (especially the 2nd place one).

 

THAT'S what killed me. I wasn't even really aware, because I was so caught up in the scary aftermath of that challenge. But once it was all done, it dawned on me - "That wasn't even for immunity." Fuck that. 

[cooksdelight]

the lead medic guy is literally trying to keep people alive and Jeff is sitting there, "So tell us what's going on".

Part of me thinks Jeff is always in gameshow host mode. It's his job to do that and he can't shut it off. He's constantly egging on the contestants (to the point they often have to stop, reset, start over because Jeff's mouthiness was misunderstood).

But I agree with you that there's a time and place for everything. They could have edited in a voiceover of him telling us what's going on.

[Big Mother]

that must be new because in Guatemala, Margaret was Florence Nightingale when Bobby Jon, Judd and Jim were all suffering from heat exhaustion/dehydration etc.

From what i just read in Peter's tweet, I think theyre not allowed to interact with the contestants from the other tribes during/after challenges. That's why you're seeing each tribe huddled around their own ailing member instead of running around trying to help or even reassuring the patients. They can't talk to the other tribes.

[laurakaye]

Agreed. The kicker for me was when they were voting and Scott said, "I hope you watch this again and again and realize we were trying to help you."  GAG.  This is a classic mean girls move - they snub/tease/freeze out/otherwise torment another girl and then claim it's the victim's fault, they were "just trying to help." Total BS. Calling you "blondie" instead of her name...barking at her for just trying to be encouraging....generally treating her like crap - yeah, really "helpful."

THANK YOU.  Along the same lines was Scot trying to backpedal on his "just stand there and be a cheerleader" comment at TC...trying to make it sound like he was actually encouraging Alecia to keep cheering because it was helping the Brawn tribe dig the sand.  What a crock of crap.  I was thinking about giving Scot the benefit of the doubt, thinking perhaps he was being a gigantic tool because Bounty was rubbing off on him, but forget that.  Scot is a bully, plain and simple, and needs to take several seats.

 

And Bounty - I don't even know where to start with this moron.  I found his tender care of Cydney completely self-serving, because if that had been Alecia, he wouldn't have been anywhere near her.  And Probst, sitting there with Caleb, but cooing to Cydney that she was in great hands with Bounty?!  WHATEVER.  All that did was fuel Bounty's enormous ego.

 

I am a die-hard fan of this show, so I won't quit on it.  But I am about at my limit for watching misogynistic bully morons get a chance to speak about anything at all, let alone Alecia - who, if I recall, made them a fire and found them an idol clue.  Combined with Caleb's evacuation, I don't recall an episode of Survivor ever making me so angry, sad, and frustrated at the same time.

 

Bring back both Caleb and Alecia, and do it soon, Burnett.

[Pepper Mostly]

If I was one of those folks, I probably would have snapped at him. Sometimes I just want to punch his smug face.

 

Me: "Shut UP Jeff! Shutupshutupshutup!"

And I always want to punch his smug face. I've been away from Survivor for a few years, and I swear Jeff is main reason. Well, that and the love affair with Russell Hantz.

And yet if they get called out on it, they will make no apologies and blame the editing.

 

Jason and Scot have DAUGHTERS. My god. How often do they hear "Look what you made me do" "If you didn't provoke me, I wouldn't get so mad" "why can't you just not make so much trouble?".

Debbie won me over with, "I've made some mistakes in my life." That's all I wanted, a real person with a spot of remorse and some daughters she loves. So much more likeable than all the bragging.

 

I'm starting to like Debbie best of all! She has serious game. Going to Peter after TC and stroking his ego was really smart and I am convinced that she does all that dumb shit about the big frontal lobes and cheerleading to burnish her image as a batty older lady, harmless. I am looking forward to seeing her game play out more than any other person's. And yeah, she won me over with her rueful "I've made some big mistakes".

 

 

 

Alecia did absolutely nothing to warrant the heinous way she was treated by Hans and Franz.  I don't care if she was annoying or clueless or whatever.   There can't be any "blame the victim" here.   One of those assholes describes himself as ex-military and goes all "leave no man behind" when it comes to Sydney's heat stroke but then he publicly treats Alecia like shit.   The other, Mr. Sportsmanship, picking on a woman.  What a couple of sad excuses for Y chromosomes.

 

Sydney's a real piece of work too.     She instigated the scene last week that resulted in a scary physical struggle between Kyle and Alecia.  This week she just sat there and smirked while the two apes tag-teamed the poor woman. 

Yeah, Cydney won no points with me. Now that Alecia's gone, doesn't she realize the boys club will turn on her? The only thing she can hang her hat on is to be advantageously placed come the mixup. So far her game play is crap.

 

I repeat, Scot and Jason are beneath contempt. Alecia was a little flaky but she was dogged and a team player. She had pride and guts-never shed a tear. My only hope is to see them both go down in as humiliatingly as possible. 

[SandyToes]

 

The moronic Brawn tribe didn't like Alecia from day one, yet they kept her through TWO tribal councils.  Hey idiots --- you made your beds, lie in it.  D'you think Darnell or Jennifer would've been more useful to the game?  This is why players shouldn't get too cute with the "let's take out a threat early" thinking when it's only six-person tribes.  You need to win challenges first and foremost,

 

I'm relatively new to the show (just the past few seasons), but this is how I think, too. Get rid of the cannon fodder and do what it takes to win NOW, then pick off the threats. Point above about Darnell dropping the goggles - exactly right - an accident (even if it was a dumb mistake) compared to Alecia standing around during the puzzle doing nothing. The challenges seem to be pretty physcial, so maybe keeping more of the actual brawn might have made a difference. (And really - Alecia is on the brawn tribe?!)  I was wondering if it isn't actually the tattoo tribe - maybe there's a twist coming where it's revealed the tribe is not the tribe they think they are, and have something else in common.  Figure it out to win reward!  Sort of like there's one person on each tribe who doesn't seem to fit.

 

I'll need to rewatch, but I recall the reward being on day 9, and the IC being on day 11. Anyone else?  They all certainly looked fresher for the IC, so hopefully got a little shade, sleep and a lot of fluids.

 

My son and I were aghast at the medical emergencies. Just wow.  Jeff's hosting duties was a little jarring, (I think voice overs would have been a better choice, too), but I have no way of knowing the timelines, or how long all of this took.  When Jeff went over to tell the beauty tribe Caleb was being evacuated, they all seemed stunned - as if they had no idea what was going on with him. So there must have been some distance between where they were hanging out, and where the "emergency room" was. Very glad we got an immediate update on Caleb's condition.

 

Loving sweet Tai, and Debbie is growing on me.    Loved the doc's early comment about the "pea brain" tribe.  hee!

 

Maybe I'm in a forgiving mood, but the editing can make hours seem like minutes, and long discussions seem like random one-off comments. I tend to take everything with a grain of salt. 

[Apocalypso]

Did you see the ugly look Scot gave Cydney just because Alecia had cordial parting words for her.

[Bouffe]

This tweet explains a lot.

 

https://twitter.com/47PB/status/707823360038866944

 

Peter Baggenstos

‏@47PB

Hard not to step in. We can't interact with other contestsnts. Ocean water is colder than core body temperature....they couldn't hear me...

Hubby asked why ER doc was not helping out, and I told him I didn't think they were allowed. Thanks for confirming that.

 

I was also wondering why they didn't bring the contestants to the ocean. Maybe the water near the beach is too warm (albeit still cold-ish) and wouldn't cool down someone fast enough? The ice and icy water they used seemed to work really fast on Debbie and Cydney. 

[Big Mother]

maybe they were afraid to move Caleb, they first wanted to bring his temp down, they may have been afraid that moving him would cause his heart to fail or something.

[laurakaye]

Considering their behaviour on Twitter tonight, I sure as hell don't blame her. One of Scot's gems: "We both have two daughters and if they grow up like Alecia we will be disappointed."

Vile pigs.

Gosh, so they don't want their daughters to have qualities like fortitude (spending hours starting a fire which is essential to survival while her tribemates called her names and took lil' nappies under the shelter)?  Or smarts, leading Alecia to find an idol clue (while her tribemates laughed and proclaimed that she was far too stupid to find it)?  Or the backbone to stand up to two obnoxious bullies and not back down from their demeaning comments, which were clearly intended to break her?  Gee...I have a daughter and I think those qualities are pretty kick-ass, myself.

 

Casting needs to be careful going forward.  I, for one, have had my fill of of Dan Foley-type pigs.  Some discord makes for interesting and compelling television, but out and out bullying and misogyny is just not all that entertaining, especially on a show that's done it before.

[vibeology]

I'm guessing they didn't throw Caleb in the water because his situation was that serious. The time it would have taken to move him down there was time they needed. I know we could see the beach in the background, but it wasn't a five second run over there. They would have had to move him onto a stretcher, get him down to the water, take off the monitoring equipment (which they needed to keep track of his temperature, blood pressure and heart rate) and hope the water could do more than they were already doing with ice, water, cold saline etc. It just wasn't a risk worth taking.

 

I don't fault Peter for thinking it, because he was hot and exhausted and being kept with his own tribe unable to see what was being done to Caleb until he watched the show tonight and I don't fault him for tweeting because just here there have been a lot of questions about why he wasn't helping. I think Peter probably wasn't doing great himself in that heat, none of them looked in good health by the time they had three people down and I don't fault him for needing water and shade himself.

[fuzzed]

Also scary as hell were Caleb's numbers on the monitors.  I've already deleted the episode off my DVR, but if I recall correctly:

• At one point Caleb's temperature was registering 105 degrees Fahrenheit, and that's dangerous.  Anything over 103 and you're getting into seizure territory.
• His blood pressure was initially something like 146/96 - which for a healthy young man is awful dern high.
• Scarier, though, was when his blood pressure started to crash - didn't catch his diastolic number, but his systolic suddenly dropped from the 140s down to something like 114.  THAT was when Medical called for a medevac - they were afraid his heart might fail on them right then and there.

 

The 105 number on the monitor reflected heart rate. A later shot showed it bouncing around the 111-114 range. His BP went from 139/83 to systolic readings of 169 to 183. Hypertensive crisis is when that number tops 180.

 

The worst part of the episode was Jiffy's almost gleeful "we're going to have an evacuation" proclamation. He is loathsome.

[sadiegirl1999]

This tweet explains a lot.

 

https://twitter.com/...823360038866944

 

Peter Baggenstos

‏@47PB

Hard not to step in. We can't interact with other contestsnts. Ocean water is colder than core body temperature....they couldn't hear me...

 

 

Doesn't explain Debbie though.

 

I'd have to rewatch, but I'm about 100% damn sure that FBI Joe was the one who demanded medical for Debbie, not Fauxbama

[Special K]

But I am about at my limit for watching misogynistic bully morons get a chance to speak about anything at all...

 

Well then fasten your seat belt, since it's the season of Trump.

 

I can't even come up with a clever way to describe my loathing for Scot and Kyle.  It was all fun and games when all we needed to do was mock their tattoos.  Now the thought that they are raising children!  I mean, I know that the conditions can bring out bad behaviour, but most adults will 'fess up that after the fact, and, even if they can't apologize, will explain it.  Other than:  she sucks and so we had to behave that way.  Too often these Survivor assholes don't get the comeuppance that they deserve (and that we so desperately need), but please oh please let these two get their just humiliation.

 

Did anyone else want to punch JP in the face when he sent them off from the RC with "Three survivors down. So remember, you Must. Stay. Hydrated. in this game."  I can't believe he had the nerve to say that and the producers aired that.  Like it was the contestants' fault.

[Boilergal]

Mrs Boiler kept saying get them all in the water!!!  It seemed like it was close enough that the other contestants could have all walked in and cooled off while they were dealing with Debbie, Caleb and Cyndney.

 

It seemed like they made the digging area too big and possibly too deep...I know they don't usually put the time up on the screen for how long they do that particular obstacle, but it seemed unusually long.

 

Caleb looked like he was convulsing at one point  - that was when the realness of it hit me.

 

Jason was being very sweet to Cyndney and that really surprised me. 

 

Wonder how many real days it was between the reward and immunity challenge.

[Big Mother]

Will people please stop ragging on Peter. Joe and Debbie are the closest, and it makes sense that he was tuned into how she was feeling. Peter was probably exhausted and depleted himself; you see him laying down next to Debbie when she's being treated.

[Gummo]

Dear Scott Pollard,

 

I would take one Alecia over a dozen of you.  You're a vile poison to any team you're on.

 

Hope when you see this you realize I was only trying to help you.

 

Love,

Gummo

Edited March 10, 2016 by Gummo

[ihartcoffee]

I actually feel bad for Alecia and had to mute. It's always disturbing to me to watch when someone in Survivor is treated so badly. I just feel like no matter what she does those 2 guys will tear her down and they are completely rude about it.

I seriously wanted to give her a hug. Why be so damn nasty? I want to see them voted out asap now, big jerks.

[thehepburn]

Dont know how accurate it is but Anna said on Periscope that Caleb told her - that the doctors told him that his liver and kidneys were failing which is why they medevaced him pronto.

[SuburbanHangSuite]

Just my two cents on a few things:

There are some people who are wired with a hyper-competitive gene. It doesn't matter if you're playing for money, bragging rights or salt and pepper--it's win at all costs. I'm one of those people (for the record, it's one of the qualities I dislike the most about myself) so I completely understand the Herculean effort at the RC. And this quality allows for very little tolerance of people who aren't wired the same way. Believe me, I am not endorsing the awful behavior toward Alecia but I would be some kind of pissed off too if I'm near the point of collapse and someone beside me is chirping while worthlessly kicking sand around. And then they're looking for some kind of kudos for "staying positive." Fu k outta here with that noise. But Lord knows, I just hope I would never stoop to participating in such nasty bullying. As others have pointed out, the Brawns kept her over two much physically stronger players so they deserve every L they've gotten.

[blackwing]

Just to play devil's advocate here... I don't think it's a coincidence that the bullying from the last few seasons has involved short tempered males combined with overly garrulous females.  I think even the nicest people have difficulty with socially awkward people that never shut up... and when you combine ill tempered macho types that haven't eaten or slept in days with people that constantly have their verbal motor running you will always have a never ending supply of drama to fall back on when you aren't lucky enough (from a production standpoint) to have people dropping like flies from heat exhaustion.

 

Were these guys rude and tactless?  Yes.  Did Alecia deserve that treatment?  No... but production knew exactly what would happen when they combined these people.  Unlike Shirin, who I think was very bright and knew how to passive aggressively fuck with those less intelligent than her... I think Alecia was an okay girl that was only guilty of being a little bit ditzy and dense. 

 

All I'm saying is that if you are going to be angry about this... aim it at reality tv production who have by now perfected the psychological alchemy necessary to make a season interesting and don't make it your personal mission to destroy these contestants lives for being on a show designed to entertain us.  If they cast only easy going people that never got upset with each other I doubt many of those who are getting angry would bother to watch.

 

I would agree that the environment - the heat, the lack of sleep, the lack of food, the bugs, etc. - contributes a lot to the negative social interactions we have seen.  But I don't agree that production is all to blame.  I'm sure when Kyle was going through casting, he didn't say to them that he was a jackass.  He probably portrayed himself as he said he was on the first episode - a contradiction, he's got all these ugly tattoos all over his body and he's a badass, but he also has daughters and is a cuddly teddy bear who plays princess tea parties.

 

Will people please stop ragging on Peter. Joe and Debbie are the closest, and it makes sense that he was tuned into how she was feeling. Peter was probably exhausted and depleted himself; you see him laying down next to Debbie when she's being treated.

No thank you.  I think Peter deserves to be ragged on.  It wasn't just Debbie.  The other girl on their team had issues as well.  Debbie had her head in Joe's crotch and the other girl had her head in Neal's crotch.  It doesn't matter who is "closer" to each other.  This is a man who has an extremely high opinion of himself and is supposedly the bestest ER doctor that ever ER'd.  What was happening out there was pretty much HIS THING.  And he didn't seem to do a damn thing to help even the members of his own tribe.  He could have been talking to them and comforting them.  He did squat.

 

As far as interacting with other tribes.... to me there is no excuse for his behaviour.  He should have been well aware of the risk of Caleb potentially dying.  He could have talked to Jeff or someone on production and told them that he is the Bestest ER Doctor that Ever ER'd, and that his advice would be to put them in the water.  When people are possibly dying, I'm sure they wouldn't have minded the advice of another medical professional.  There's a big difference between them forcing Peter to stay out of the way as opposed to asking Tai to move out of the way.  Tai was there only to cry and to fondle Caleb's chest and volunteer to do mouth-to-mouth if needed.  Peter could have offered real advice.  Instead, he appeared to do nothing, not even for the two women on his tribe.

 

I also don't think "Joe and Debbie are closest" is an excuse.  As an ER doctor, he should have recognised the signs and asked for medical.  Not a retired FBI guy who isn't a trained medical professional.

 

If the contestants were out there digging in the hot sand for 45 minutes, why weren't they offered water?  I know that "production doesn't get involved" but that was ridiculous.  If someone had asked for water, and they were denied it, then that is just reprehensible.

[Fukui San]

I'm a Boston sports fan and have no memory of Scot Pollard on the 2008 Celtics.  The 2008 playoff run, by the way, was unusual in that every series went 7 games long.  There were no easy series, so the team had to play the full 28 possible playoff games to win the title.  In the last year of his career, Pollard did not see the court. Looking back in his career, his best year was the 2001-2 season in Sacramento, in which he scored 6.4 points per game and 7.1 rebounds. By the advanced stats people use like Win Shares and PER, he was the 5th or 6th most important player on a very good team. 

 

My question about this episode is: Was this digging through the sand section longer than usual, or does editing usually just keep the digging part off screen?  They have a dig through the sand section multiple times a season. Did they just bury it deeper than usual or outline a larger space?  Or does it always take an hour and did we just never realize it since they only show the discoveries and people don't usually collapse from heat stroke.

[peachmangosteen]

All I'm saying is that if you are going to be angry about this... aim it at reality tv production who have by now perfected the psychological alchemy necessary to make a season interesting and don't make it your personal mission to destroy these contestants lives for being on a show designed to entertain us.

 

Sure, Production is horrible, but I'm not gonna let Scot and Jason off the hook for being misogynistic pieces of garbage.

 

Jason and Scot have DAUGHTERS. My god. How often do they hear "Look what you made me do" "If you didn't provoke me, I wouldn't get so mad" "why can't you just not make so much trouble?".

 

That was the scariest thing about it all and why Scot has now surpassed Jason on the 'worthless piece of garbage' scale. He was being a classic abusive boyfriend/father and it was really disturbing to see. I am legit terrified that he has daughters. I feel really sorry for those girls.

Edited March 10, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[ForeverAlone]

Honestly, I would have hated to have been on a tribe with Kyle, Scot and Alecia. The men were asshole douchebags and I thought Alecia was annoying as all get out. But the Brawn tribe has nobody to blame but themselves. Alecia could have been an easy first boot, but for some reason, they kept her around. 

[Fostersmom]

I would agree that the environment - the heat, the lack of sleep, the lack of food, the bugs, etc. - contributes a lot to the negative social interactions we have seen.  But I don't agree that production is all to blame.  I'm sure when Kyle was going through casting, he didn't say to them that he was a jackass.  He probably portrayed himself as he said he was on the first episode - a contradiction, he's got all these ugly tattoos all over his body and he's a badass, but he also has daughters and is a cuddly teddy bear who plays princess tea parties.

 

No thank you.  I think Peter deserves to be ragged on.  It wasn't just Debbie.  The other girl on their team had issues as well.  Debbie had her head in Joe's crotch and the other girl had her head in Neal's crotch.  It doesn't matter who is "closer" to each other.  This is a man who has an extremely high opinion of himself and is supposedly the bestest ER doctor that ever ER'd.  What was happening out there was pretty much HIS THING.  And he didn't seem to do a damn thing to help even the members of his own tribe.  He could have been talking to them and comforting them.  He did squat.

 

As far as interacting with other tribes.... to me there is no excuse for his behaviour.  He should have been well aware of the risk of Caleb potentially dying.  He could have talked to Jeff or someone on production and told them that he is the Bestest ER Doctor that Ever ER'd, and that his advice would be to put them in the water.  When people are possibly dying, I'm sure they wouldn't have minded the advice of another medical professional.  There's a big difference between them forcing Peter to stay out of the way as opposed to asking Tai to move out of the way.  Tai was there only to cry and to fondle Caleb's chest and volunteer to do mouth-to-mouth if needed.  Peter could have offered real advice.  Instead, he appeared to do nothing, not even for the two women on his tribe.

 

I also don't think "Joe and Debbie are closest" is an excuse.  As an ER doctor, he should have recognised the signs and asked for medical.  Not a retired FBI guy who isn't a trained medical professional.

 

If the contestants were out there digging in the hot sand for 45 minutes, why weren't they offered water?  I know that "production doesn't get involved" but that was ridiculous.  If someone had asked for water, and they were denied it, then that is just reprehensible.

 

Didn't both Joe and Neil sit out for the challenge though? Or was it just Neil? Peter was digging. 

[peachmangosteen]

Didn't both Joe and Neil sit out for the challenge though? Or was it just Neil? Peter was digging. 

 

Neal was the one who sat out.

 

Speaking of Neal, this episode did absolutely nothing to dispel my notion that he's a sociopath. That being said, I'm beginning to enjoy him. Scot and Jason are just so horrible that I don't have it in me to hate anyone else.

Edited March 10, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[thehepburn]

Didn't both Joe and Neil sit out for the challenge though? Or was it just Neil? Peter was digging. 

Just Neal and Neal said on twitter that he sat out bc his hands were all cut up.

[fishcakes]

I can see why they pushed this season back so that it wouldn't immediately follow Worlds Apart. One season of bullying can just be a group of players that no one expected to be that heinous; two seasons in a row, and it starts to look like the show is deliberately casting for this kind of thing. I doubt they are; they want conflict, not abuse, but when abuse starts being the norm, it makes the casting people look either incompetent or evil.

 

Alecia was an annoying person and terrible in challenges, but they knew that on Day 3. It's not her fault that Scot, Jason, Cydney, and Jennie had the strategic ability and combined brainpower of a small bag of potatoes and decided to keep the annoying person who's terrible in challenges. Nor do I fault Alecia for bringing up Scot's "cheerleader" comment after the RC, but it was clear that she couldn't let it go because there were at least three different scenes of her pecking at him about it. I almost expected to see the same chryons that we saw when she was making the fire a couple of weeks ago: 2 Hours Elapsed, 3 Hours Elapsed, 5 Hours Elapsed. Nevertheless, that doesn't justify the way that Scot and Jason talked to her, and I'm pretty sure we didn't see even a fraction of what she had to put up with from them. I would guess they tried to break her down constantly out there, and the fact that she wouldn't break made them even more pissed off. Scot and Jason aren't the men they think they are; they're weak, sad sacks of self-aggrandizing bullshit, and I feel sorry for the women in their lives, especially any daughters they have or will have. As for Cydney, eh. She might not have been overtly nasty to Alecia, but she threw in with the two douchebags who were, so I'll be just as glad to see her lose.

 

Everything else: I'm glad no one died? That shouldn't be a thing I have to think after a TV show.

[peachmangosteen]

One season of bullying can just be a group of players that no one expected to be that heinous; two seasons in a row, and it starts to look like the show is deliberately casting for this kind of thing.

 

Everything else: I'm glad no one died? That shouldn't be a thing I have to think after a TV show.

I'm really starting to wonder why I even still watch. I'm kind of ashamed honestly.

[laurakaye]

 

I'm really starting to wonder why I even still watch. I'm kind of ashamed honestly.

I watch because I have a strong sentimentality for this show for many reasons.  I have never missed an episode.  I still recall my mom (who is no longer with me) calling me during Season One, Episode One, and saying, "You have to watch this show!  It's crazy, they vote each other off!"  At the time, there was nothing like it.  I keep hoping against hope that the direction this season is taking is NOT the direction in which it will continue.  Yes, I want it to be real and I also want to be entertained.  But the bullying is not strategic.  I don't necessarily want to see a group of tribemates sit around and sing campfire songs in five-part harmony, but I would like to see everyone treated like a human being.  Maybe I'm asking too much for a show that's gone on this long.  If the point is to get people talking...well, mission accomplished.  I'd like to think that my beloved Survivor wouldn't stoop to the level where any publicity is considered good publicity.  I don't think it needs to go there yet, if ever.

Edited March 10, 2016 by laurakaye

[ghoulina]

Did anyone else want to punch JP in the face when he sent them off from the RC with "Three survivors down. So remember, you Must. Stay. Hydrated. in this game."  I can't believe he had the nerve to say that and the producers aired that.  Like it was the contestants' fault.

 

YES! Oh my gosh, I forgot to mention that. Pissed me off so badly. This was NOT a case of simple dehydration. That might have played a part, but it was this grueling fucking challenge in the insane heat. If it was just dehydration, you mean to tell me that 3 different people from 3 different tribes all failed to hydrate properly leading up to the challenge? Yea, okay. How about not blaming the victims and take some responsibility for creating a challenge like this in such a harsh environment?

 

I also don't think "Joe and Debbie are closest" is an excuse.  As an ER doctor, he should have recognised the signs and asked for medical.  Not a retired FBI guy who isn't a trained medical professional.

 

Agreed. And, just me, but I don't think in a situation as scary as that, I would even be THINKING about the rules. I imagine I'd just jump into action. 

[Big Mother]

Dont know how accurate it is but Anna said on Periscope that Caleb told her - that the doctors told him that his liver and kidneys were failing which is why they medevaced him pronto.

How could they tell that from a beach exam? They ran quick blood work?