S20.E09: Week 9

[backformore]

Has Ben always been such a slow blinker?

I noticed a certain blinking thing he does that I take to indicate that he's had a few drinks, is really trying to focus, but just wants to lie down.  

It has happened more and more frequently as the show progresses. 

[Missy Vixen]

Self-respecting men and women seem to be going extinct.  

 

When will one woman tell the bachelor: "If you propose to me and I see that you have slept with other contestants, we're done."

Fleiss and Chris Harrison don't select for self-respect. This is Fleiss' fantasy -- 25 women fighting over him. Being able to bone as many contestants as possible.

 

Any contestant who actually told the Bachelor that she would dump him if he slept with someone else would be off the show the minute the words left her lips.

[jmonkey]

Wow! My opinion of Ben sure has hit the shits. I liked him in the beginning, was indifferent about him most of the season, and now I think he's a low down dirty dog on par with some of the worst bachelors we've seen in this franchise. He's a jerk disguised as a nice guy. That's the most dangerous kind of jerk. I'm pretty sure he just kept Caila around so he could sleep with the "sex panther" in the fantasy suite. I guess he hurt her enough to give her an opportunity to make a pitch for The Bachelorette gig, but I gotta believe that whoever gets runner-up is going to get it. I mean, unless Ben can propose to both, he's going to have to let one go. Maybe he won't be able to pick and won't propose to either one since he's so conflicted.

 

Is there anything crueler than telling someone you love them and then breaking their heart? Based on the editing with Jojo feeling confident and Lauren having reservations, I gotta believe Jojo will be the one who gets her heart broken next week. If she plays it right, The Bachelorette gig will be hers for the taking. I hope she gives Ben a hard time. I'm a big Caila fan. I would've picked her if I was Ben, but she was much too easy on him. When she kept repeating, "I still love him," it struck me as sad and pathetic.

 

I know they all suffer from Stockholm Syndrome on this show, and I think Ben has it the worst. His end-game strategy has been deplorable. There's no way that Ben can look good here and it just makes him seem like a typical guy who will say whatever it takes to get someone into the sack. When Ben said he loved Lauren, I was like WTF? I didn't think that was allowed. Of course he (probably with an assist from production) said it to 2 women to kind of throw a wrench into things. It kind of made up for the fact that we knew who was getting eliminated by the middle of the episode. Good move, Fleiss! Bad move, Ben! Jojo's brothers are going to kill him if he ends up breaking her heart. She's already had her heart broken in a previous relationship, has a family that was skeptical of Ben, and if she gets eliminated after Ben professed his love, that sounds like a recipe to become The Bachelorette based on past seasons. 

 

All 3 women dressed up in denim cutoff shorts for their date with Ben. Really, wardrobe department?

 

The only way Ben could redeem himself in my eyes is by pulling a full Mesnick. I can also see him on a couch sniveling to Chris Harrison about making a big mistake and choosing the wrong woman in the near future.

Edited March 1, 2016 by jmonkey

[Adeejay]

Ben is stuck between the one he WANTS (Jojo) and the one he knows he should/could/will have (Lauren).

 

I agree.  Ben seems to really want to  be with JoJo, but can't seem to get over the fact that he has a shot with the hotter (in his opinion) Lauren.   

 

This show loves drama, real or manufactured.  So, I have a feeling that the Bachelorette gig is going to go to the wealthy Texan with the ahole brothers, rather than the quiet, polite gal from Ohio. 

[MsPH]

I thought that Lauren B is 25? And that Jo-Jo and Calia are both a year younger at 24. They are all too young (including Ben) but I don't think any of the contestants are as young as 22.

 

Pretty sure Lauren is currently 26 (had a birthday recently), JoJo is 25 and Caila is 24 (she was actually 23 on the show, not sure why they're lying about it).

[StatisticalOutlier]

I have always loved how "Chris Harrison" invites them to the fantasy suite!

 

And even after all these years, "Chris Harrison" still hasn't learned how to spell "forgo."

[saber5055]

I missed the first half of this episode, but reading here, I feel I am caught up. 

 

Enough with the jump-and-leg-wrap, people. It squees me out, big time.

 

Was surprised to see the "morning after" FS filmed. Granted, I couldn't stomach Kaitlyn so didn't watch her debacle, so this was all new to me. Breakfast in bed. Jeepers. Did TPTB show all three mornings after? I only caught Jojo's date and everything after that. Although, disappointedly, I was doing something else during the waterfall scene so missed "that" part. Darn it anyway.

 

I'm the one who called Jojo the Dog-Faced Girl during her Wrigley Field date. But she looked REALLY pretty for FS breakfast and at the rose ceremony. HOT dress. And yeah, Lauren looked like some 60s mom chaperoning a middle-school dance in that frumpy red thing she was wearing. And I'm not one who cares about clothes. But that red number ... yikes. Ditch it, girl.

 

Caila going to see Ben was such a TPTB  idea. It was all set up for her to get ditched. It's just that she didn't know it. Ben and TPTB knew, although TP did blind-side Ben by dumping Caila on him early in the day.

 

That rose ceremony with two roses, two women ... I was hoping Ben would hold both roses up, one in each hand, and say, "Lauren, Jojo, do you accept these roses?" Doing it the "regular" way was such a time waster.

 

Although at the end, during the many toasts, Ben did let it slip that he could see both as his wives. I imagined the Most.Dramatic.Finale.EVAH! when he proposes to both. Sister wives! Yeay! How cool would that be?

 

Just because someone spends the night together doesn't mean they had intercourse. And, frankly, I could care less if Ben slept with all three plus the turtle on the beach. I mean really, who cares.

 

And LOL at those FS invites being from Chris Harrison. Harrison, you dog you!

[Koala]

Normally I watch this show whilst in a bit of a drunken stupor, but my sobriety this week allowed me to actually feel really sorry for Jojo. Her genuine surprise and apparent joy when Ben uttered "I love you" the first time was almost tragic.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that Ben is going to choose our sweet, dull flight attendant -- she's the "cute," blonde girl-next-door who will make his family and hometown proud. He's been pining over her since the beginning, he broke down in real tears in front of her sister, he ignored every girl on the hilarious pig island just to spend sun-burnt time in her bleached-blonde presence, he's already introduced her to his hometown friends and aspects of his childhood, and he looks at her like she's the only woman in the world. 

 

I mean come on. No matter how great her ombre hair and surgically enhanced bosom is, Jojo doesn't stand a chance.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Koala

[Teddybear]

 

I don't believe for one second that Ben loves JoJo. The way he looks and talks about Lauren vs. the way he looks and talks about JoJo is night and day. What I think happened was 1 of 2 things. 1) Ben slipped and told Lauren he loves her too and the producers were not having that without him saying it to another girl too because then the win would be extremely obvious and we know the producers don't want an obvious win a couple episodes before it ends... or 2) The next couple of episodes didn't produce enough drama so Ben was told to do this to give a dramatic ending. Either way, JoJo has no chance. Ben is smitten with Lauren and his I love you to JoJo seemed very forced.

But couldn't the producers just have cut the part where he told Lauren he loved her so we would never have seen it?  Therefore not forcing him to tell JoJo he loved her?  

 

I always wonder what is said between the couples that we don't see (I'm assuming a lot).  Do we really know that Trista didn't tell Ryan she loved him, we just never saw it to create suspense?

 

Producers control the entire show and what we see/ don't see.  They could have thought, oh shit he broke the rules, let's leave that out to create suspense that Lauren is the clear winner.  The dark side is obviously, this is great! Let's leave this in and now get him to tell JoJo he loves her too!   Who knows. 

[Artsda]

 

Ben is stuck between the one he WANTS (Jojo) and the one he knows he should/could/will have (Lauren).

This is what I think happened with Jason Mesnick and even Emily Maynard's season and it never works.

 

Jason picked the mentally should pick on and not the one he wanted. Emily picked the should have chose and not the race car driver she wanted. 

[Ketzel]

Yeah, no. "(To) cheer" is a verb. "(To) cheers" is not. You wouldn't say "my brother cheerses for whoever is winning." I stand by my original statement.

"To cheer" is the infinitive form of the verb. "Cheers" is the verb used in third person. I agree that "to cheers" is wrong. But not because "cheers" isn't a verb.

[himela]

I don't know exactly what it is but I still don't believe Lauren. She says the right things, acts the right things, but her body language does not convince me. I know people express themselves differently but if you see how Ben looks at her and how she looks at him you will see a slight difference. While Jojo in the same situation shows not only with words but with her body language as well her love. I know some of these feelings are a product of this harsh process but still. Jojo loses her words, looks down, is genuinelly worried about the incident with her brothers and Ben. She touches him, her happiness when he says "I love you" back is honest. I know I can't convince you but it's a feeling I have. Even when Jojo asks Lauren "how are you feeling about this now?" she is like bluh. She knows if she doesn't get Ben she will be the Bachelorette.

 

Also I have to notice that Ben must have caught this not genuine emotion from Lauren as well; before the dates he said "I can't imagine my life without Lauren at the moment". The only thing he said about Jojo was his being worried about her brothers and the chemistry they have. Going from this to saying I love you to her shows me he is kinda disappointed with Lauren in a way. Or maybe not, I don't know. I think these women have differences, Lauren is the down-to-earth woman you know she will be a good wife and mother, always there to fix things and be supportive. Jojo is sexy and more "party-oriented" if you know what I mean, whoever has her will have fun everyday but I don't think she is ready to be a wife and mother, she still has stuff to get out of her system. She will be the perfect Bachelorette, she'll make out with everyone, party with everyone and in the end of it all she may meet her "Sean" and realize party time is over.

[Padma]

I think Psycho Ben has convinced me to do what others haven't--give up on this awful show. At least Juan Pablo was genuinely what we saw--kind of self-centered and a bit of a jerk who basically just wanted sex, but at least he was fairly honest about it, didn't pretend to have feelings he didn't have, didn't mislead the women just to get them into bed and to get them to express emotional commitment to him even though he couldn't do the same.

 

"I love you" is not the same as "I want to sleep with you". It's an emotional commitment that should include, imo, fidelity or at least the intention of being faithful. At a minimum, "love" for someone, should mean you would feel terrible if they were hurt--and would do whatever possible not to be the cause of that.

 

Anyway, Ben totally had me fooled. I thought this selfish cold hearted jerk was a genuinely sweet caring guy. And honest!  Wrong on all counts, and I feel bad for all of the F3 for being led on and used by him (and on national television no less).

 

Whitney, Lauren and Clare were three of my favorite contestants and its pretty shocking that the bachelors they felt so deeply about were all such jerks.  It was time for a really good guy as the lead, but apparently that's never going to happen.

 

Anyway, I'm done. (Luckily The Voice is back anyway, so there's some actual entertainment at the same time).  I'll still read y'alls comments--couldn't give those up--but, after all these years, I've finally had my fill of this show. Hooray!

[Andromeda]

Ben skeeved me out last night. The women apparently are interchangeable to him. Really, Ben? You love them both equally at this point? How do you think the "winner" will feel once she learns she was a toss-up with the runner-up? I hope she bolts!

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

The Bachelor Makes Suite, Suite Love To His Remaining Three Ladies
Ben and his three remaining women jet off to Jamaica for some Fantasy Suite time. Let us guide you through what to watch and/or fast-forward!

[looksee]

Caila, that was the worst acting I've ever seen on tv - and I watch a lot of terrible made-for-tv movies on Lifetime and Hallmark!

[Jax7917]

I remember one of the leads did say that they told one of the last 3 contestants that they loved them off camera and that they were going to pick him/her. It was either kaitlyn or andi I believe. I do think that some of the leads have told the F1 ahead of time ( in the fantasy suite with the cameras off) that they were going to pick them and to just be patient and get through the show.. Because honestly, I would do that. I don't believe that the bachelor/ette doesn't know by mid season who they are going to pick. You know the normal ones vs the crazy/ dramatic ones and you know who you're attracted to. This whole not knowing who you're gonna pick until the day of the proposal is such BS, but I get why they have to do it. At this point I think even JoJo knows shes toast because on the pig date she told him how obvious it is that he likes Lauren the most. All of her smiles and excitement probably is coming from the fact that she knows  she's going to be the next bachelorette. Ben seems like a good guy, but in my opinion he comes off as too perfect, which can't be real. He seems to show no flaws at all and he's gorgeous.

[Kbilly]

Enough with the jump-and-leg-wrap, people. It squees me out, big time.

 

It made me laugh when Calia said she *knew* something was off when she jumped into his arms and he didn't feel the love in his catch.

 

Due to the most. dramatic. DVR. malfunction. ever, I missed nearly all of the episode :(  It was so bizarre when they were all three making toasts and also when Jojo was asking Lauren if she felt confident before the rose ceremony. Usually at that point you think the contestants just have to completely black out that other person to make the "journey" work.

[saber5055]

Padma, say it ain't so! You know you won't be able to resist a channel turn or two during breaks in The Voice ...

 

This show is so heavily edited and producer manipulated, I watch it only for the entertainment (and snark) value it provides. Yeah, I'm all for a sappy REAL love-life find, but I can't take much of what Fleiss decides to show/not show us seriously.

 

Still, it makes for great water-cooler talk, which is what ratings and TPTB are all about.

[laurakaye]

As this is my first time watching an entire season of The Bachelor, I get a strong "squicky" feeling from Ben.  Based on the other bachelors that came before him, is Ben extra-squicky or do I just need to develop a stronger tolerance for squick?  Between his forlorn and somewhat glassy-eyed gazes, and the way he keeps asking the women why they're scared, he just doesn't seem very easy to like or empathize with.

[JudyObscure]

Enough with the jump-and-leg-wrap, people. It squees me out, big time.

 

Me too.

 

Is that why everyone is assuming Jojo is better in bed?  Is it the implants?  I just don't think it's an easy thing to judge.  Sometimes the quiet ones "turn into sex panthers," when all the switches are in the on position while others might just continue to maintain in peppy cheer leader mode, never being able to  really lose themselves or quit trying too hard.   

 

 Jojo, like Caila, seems very anxious to demonstrate how "fun!" she can be and imply that as a wife, every minute would be  cute practical jokes and adorable  giggles. I would find someone like that exhausting. Who knows though?  Like a hyperactive child she may get pouty and sullen when there's no super-fun activity going on and she has to amuse herself for an evening.  Not saying any of this is the case, just that it's possible and we have no way of knowing.

 

I'm looking forward to Ben's mother's reaction.  I'm not sure she's going to be crazy about either one. 

Edited March 1, 2016 by JudyObscure

[gamervd]

Two thoughts:

 

1. Ben only told JoJo he loved her because producers told him to. I don't think anybody (including producers) expected him to say I love you to Lauren. If he didn't tell JoJo he loved her, then everybody would know he is going to pick Lauren. Due to his surprising remarks with Lauren, I bet they told him he must rectify the situation by telling JoJo he loved her too or ratings for the final rose would be poor. Need to simulate drama or people won't tune in.

 

2. Ben is definitely not calling one of the girls back on the phone (preview for final rose). I bet he is calling Lauren's dad for approval to take her hand in marriage. He is head over heels with her.

[ljenkins782]

I can't imagine that whichever woman "wins" enjoyed watching this episode tonight. How preposterous that you could tell one woman you loved her and then probably slept with her and then do the exact same thing the next day.

Seriously. My first thought was that whoever did end up as F1 is probably undoing that engagement as we speak. Regardless of whether this is the premise of the show, the way he handled it had a very personal feel. Any special memories either one of them had of their day is going to be obliterated by watching the other one. 

 

Based on the reactions to the rose ceremony, I think JoJo already suspected that Lauren's date went very similarly to hers. 

 

Seriously, Caila and Lauren looked like they were wearing denim underwear.

Did all 3 women wear cutoff jean shorts?

Lauren looked she might have borrowed hers from another (smaller) girl or else she's put on a few of the Bachelor 15. That first shot of her walking down the street was extremely unfortunate (denim underwear, indeed) and when they did the close up, you could see the button straining to stay closed with the fly bunching up so much it looked like it was down. 

 

I had no idea Ben would turn into Bob Guiney II.  I was in shock watching him lead poor Caila on. He seemed to so badly want the women to admire him that he completely lost sight of their feelings.

 

Caila's the one he referred to as a sex panther, right? I got the feeling he just wanted to see if she would turn out to be just that and didn't want to miss the opportunity. 

 

She didn't catch the clues about him not saying I love you back, thinking that it was show-mandated for him not to. It's gotta sting a bit watching the other dates where he gushes it back repeatedly to both of the others. 

 

I totally do not believe Caila was emotionally invested - she couldn't even produce a single tear! But it was a good audition for the Bachelorette.

 

I don't believe she was invested either, BUT I do think she slept with him before getting eliminated and that's what pissed her off so much that she jumped back out of the car to confront him (but then backed off, which was either part of her "audition" or just the [entirely correct] realization that there really wasn't an answer he could give her that would make any difference.) 

 

-Do we blame Ben or the wardrobe department for his unfortunate collection of bland t-shirts, overly wrinkled linen button-up shirts and those awful canvas sneakers that make the wearer look like an overgrown Bobby Brady?  V-neck shirts are out; to be precise, they were never in.  Get some white Adidas or K-Swiss trainers and a polo shirt.  And use the steam iron in your hotel room.

 

Those v-necks are terrible, especially with the either sparsely grown OR shaved-but-returning chest hair poking through the top. But by far, the worst offenders are those shorts he wore all through last night's show. Not sure if they were different pairs or not, but they were all a bit too snug and an awkward length. 

 

The already awkwardly staged thoughtful solo stroll around the grounds is already laughable, but with those shorts in the mix, I was literally laughing out loud. 

 

I prefer men who act less 'nice' but are honest and not playing the  'good-guy' to bolster their own sense of worth.   In every episode, his main interest is that each woman tells him they LOVE -him- and that is the primary prerequisite for his keeping them around.

 

Agreed. He's got that wolf in sheep's clothing thing going that's going to make it even worse for all of them to see that his "connection" was basically the same for 20-something people. 

 

Most of all -- I hate his ridiculous "puzzled" look (with the practiced concern-brow) when each woman tells him that she's  feeling anxious and not at ease now that they're down to the final three.

He can't begin to understand why on this earth they'd feel insecure.  Sure. I can't believe how actually unempathetic he is.

 

 

 

And what's with him being like "Caila smiles too much," then immediately whining when she stops?

That really bugged me on the Caila date. He seemed almost petulant about the fact that she wasn't being the happy, bubbly person that he just very recently called her out for being. 

 

And yeah, the disingenuous "confusion" about why they could possibly be feeling insecure or afraid to let their guards down when he's actively seeing several others at the same time is tiresome. It's unnecessary to pile on the faux concern as if he really cares, when clearly his only concern is that it's preventing his good time at that moment. 

 

1. Ben only told JoJo he loved her because producers told him to. I don't think anybody (including producers) expected him to say I love you to Lauren. If he didn't tell JoJo he loved her, then everybody would know he is going to pick Lauren. Due to his surprising remarks with Lauren, I bet they told him he must rectify the situation by telling JoJo he loved her too or ratings for the final rose would be poor. Need to simulate drama or people won't tune in.

 

According to someone upthread, JoJo's date was filmed before Lauren's (unless you're saying that he told Lauren he loved her awhile ago, which really wouldn't apply to show suspense, since they never showed it if he did). 

Edited March 1, 2016 by ljenkins782

[saber5055]

Ben is definitely not calling one of the girls back on the phone (preview for final rose). I bet he is calling Lauren's dad for approval to take her hand in marriage.

 

My vote: Pizza delivery.

Based on the other bachelors that came before him, is Ben extra-squicky or do I just need to develop a stronger tolerance for squick?  Between his forlorn and somewhat glassy-eyed gazes, and the way he keeps asking the women why they're scared, he just doesn't seem very easy to like or empathize with.

 

IMO, Ben is one of the better bachelors, and is trying not to fall into the clichés of this show. He avoids calling this show "a journey" and rarely says "This is the perfect city/country/piece of land to fall in love." Although I have heard that this season, as well as "My wife is in this room," which, I believe, is required rhetoric for this show. Finding a wife is the show's stated purpose, and what with all the comped/free rooms, etc., those holiday locations BETTER be worthy of love-finding. If not for Ben, then for the viewing public who now wants to go to there.

 

At least Ben is trying not to use "amazing," although he is subbing in Chris Soules' "crazy" quite a bit. At least he did last night. He can at least speak a sentence, even if his pronouns are whack. This is an improvement over Sean and some others, none of whom could come up with anything to say so just macked on every b-ette instead of trying to form an English sentence. And then there was my favorite, Juan Pablo, who replied to every woman, "Ees oh-kay" before macking on his women.

 

All in all, I find Ben oh-kay. He's at least trying to break out of the hot-tub-hussy bach stereotype, and I give him credit for that. When I think about it, that isn't all that easy, what with cameras on you 24/7 and PAs whispering Fleiss' little nothings in his ear, again, 24/7, making not-so-subtle suggestions about what he should do or say.

[WhoAmIReally]

1.  I think JoJo's breasts are real.  Her mother's were enormous, but were not properly supported and hung down to her waist.

 

2.  Since we know now that his date with JoJo was second, it's likely that he only said he loved her because he didn't think Lauren could possibly love him, which is exactly what he said on his later date with her.  Once Lauren confessed her love, he was floored and was able to tell her what he'd been feeling for her all along, leaving his "love" for Jo-Jo in the dust.

 

3.  He may still change his mind, though.

 

4.  Caila is boring as hell.  And as for Ben not being good enough for her, status or lookswise, remember that she dumped her boyfriend because she fell for Ben on the TeeVee. 

 

5.  Ben is pretty involved with his church.  I think he needs a woman who can share that interest.  Seems Lauren might fit the bill best there--she just seems like she would be happy going on his church missions to Central America and whatever else he does. 
 

[violetr]

Wow, even the always diplomatic Sharleen is kinda pissed. I guess Ben really lost the audience's good will with this ep. I still maintain that he's not evil or calculating - just young, dumb, and perhaps a bit selfish. I think the whole premise of this show is just conducive to jerky behavior from the leads in the end. Very few come out smelling like a, er, rose. 

[Andromeda]

I just don't believe that Calia was all that into Ben, let alone in love with him. She spent at least 5 minutes boo-hooing in the car yet didn't shed an actual tear. Not one. 

Her cheeks were wet, and I saw tears in her eyes.

 

I got a kick out of Chris Harrison's reaction when Lauren told him Ben also said "I love you" -- after JoJo reported the same thing. He was fighting so hard not to show surprise.

[Armchair Critic]

 sometimes she (Lauren) looks just like the elf who wanted to be a dentist in Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer, as did her dad.

 

That is spot on! I don't like Jojo as much, but like somebody said above the post coital messy bun looked much better on her than Lauren.

[pitchy]

Her cheeks were wet, and I saw tears in her eyes.

 

I got a kick out of Chris Harrison's reaction when Lauren told him Ben also said "I love you" -- after JoJo reported the same thing. He was fighting so hard not to show surprise.

 

I saw Caila's tears and wet cheeks also.  I think her giddiness when going to 'surprise' him with the camera crew following was actually genuine.    Usually, I feel that she's faking the constant upbeat stuff, but last night her happiness seemed real for once, and she probably thought the camera crew was going to just film what she felt was a time.to celebrate.

Re Chris Harrison, I got a kick out his reaction to Jo Jo's saying that Ben told her he loved her, his eyebrows went up and his eyes got bigger and his head moved quite a bit.

 

  But later, when Lauren told him the same thing, he was trying to contain himself -- the eyebrows went up just a little and he intentionally didn't move his head much, keeping the chin up but obviously biting his lip.  I actually think he was surprised and thinking,  "What do we have here??  GOLD, maybe!"

  He insists they did not know.  CH has lied in the past, of course, but if he was acting here, it was artful.

 

And how could CH wish for someone as 'good' as Ben for his daughter unless maybe Ben told him he kept the fantasy suite activity to intimate TALK.  (This is possible because Ben is said to be a very church-oriented guy who loves doing good deeds for less fortunate communities.)

 

I'm hoping the latter is true, because if he really did sleep with all three of them while playing the sweet, 'caring' guy, I'll think he's the worst kind of creep (which I'm feeling after the last two shows).  Will be happy to be shown otherwise.

Edited March 1, 2016 by pitchy

[UsernameFatigue]

Her cheeks were wet, and I saw tears in her eyes.

 

By 'shed an actual tear' I meant tear(s) rolling down her cheeks. Maybe she is just a very controlled, pretty crier. When I cry I produce many tears and over that length of time and would also need to blow my nose a couple of times. But maybe the wet eyes and cheeks were actually producer driven (eye drops). As others have said maybe this was her tryout for the Bachelorette.

 

I wonder why TPTB changed the order that the visits were shown? That Jo-Jo was second makes more sense though. (And how does the poster who posted this know?). I think he got caught up in the moment and told Jo-Jo, whereas I think he really does love Lauren. (And think it is quite possible that they have actually said those words to each other before). Or the Jo-Jo scene is a set up to create drama, and maybe Jo-Jo was promised the Bachelorette spot to play along.  I don't know if I could watch if Jo-Jo as the next bachelorette. All that running and jumping into arms makes me stabby.

 

I predict that Ben proposes to Lauren and then has to go into a witness protection type program to escape the wrath of Jo-Jo's brothers.

 

Edited to add: why do a lot of people assume that all three women had intercourse with Ben? Don't all the last women standing (so to speak) spend the night in the FSs? I haven't watched for several years but they certainly used to. One can certainly spend the night without 'going all the way' to use an oldfashioned term. Also isn't this pretty much the only time they get to spend alone without cameras in tow? One would think at this point in the game each would want that time for that reason alone.

Edited March 1, 2016 by UsernameFatigue

[yorklee2]

 

Is that why everyone is assuming Jojo is better in bed?  Is it the implants?  I just don't think it's an easy thing to judge.

No I don't think it's the implants per se, (although I'm sure Ben loved them) but more so the dynamics and chemistry that's been between these two since the start. Also she strikes me as a sensual confident women.

 

I read somewhere that the author Isabel Allende said that a women's true erotic/turn on body area was her ears. Specifically, " if a man wants to know how to turn a woman on forget the g-spot. Tell a woman you love her, she's gorgeous,...etc. Words. Tell her what she longs to hear". All the real players instinctively know this. I think when Ben told her he loved her (and God knows what he said in the FS) it sparked something in her. Just my opinion.

[violet and green]

Based on body language, I think he's going to flick Lauren for JoJo. He might have told Lauren he was in love with her and had been for some time, but he sure was giving her a bit of a sad and disappointed shove-off after their night together, as opposed to his entwining around the glowing JoJo.

 

The way it reads to me is: Lauren was a dud root, JoJo was adorable, and he just wanted to do Caila because he could.

 

He is a 26 year old mommy's boy (with unfortunate receding hair), and I thought churchy guys restrained those impulses.... It was all very shocking to me, what the show did with it - all the innuendo and then lights out. Argh! Those poor women. I guess these are the times. (Something to put on your resume!) It's hardly romantic.

[WhoAmIReally]

Edited to add: why do a lot of people assume that all three women had intercourse with Ben? Don't all the last women standing (so to speak) spend the night in the FSs? I haven't watched for several years but they certainly used to. One can certainly spend the night without 'going all the way' to use an oldfashioned term. Also isn't this pretty much the only time they get to spend alone without cameras in tow? One would think at this point in the game each would want that time for that reason alone.

 

I don't think he had sex with them, either. 

[saber5055]

I got a kick out of Chris Harrison's reaction when Lauren told him Ben also said "I love you" -- after JoJo reported the same thing. He was fighting so hard not to show surprise.

Or burst out laughing.

I don't think he had sex with them, either.

Exactly. I've made this statement several times. It's perfectly possible to spend the night with the opposite sex w/o intercourse. I know because I've done it (or, rather NOT "done it") many times. I especially wouldn't be "doing it" when there a possibility of a hidden camera somewhere. Remember those night-vision videos we see on Bach in Paradise? No thanks! If The Bach choses me, we can "do it" when we are really alone, like after the show is done filming. Not when cameras and microphones are lurking everywhere.

 

Imagination is always way, way worse than what is real. Hitchcock used that to his advantage in making movies.

I wonder why TPTB changed the order that the visits were shown?

 

To make things more dramatic. The order that roses are given is routinely changed as well.

Edited March 2, 2016 by saber5055

[violet and green]

Usually when they spend the night without sex, the Bach makes a big deal out of it - saying it's an opportunity to get to know each other away from the cameras, and that he would not put a woman in that position, etc etc. That last ep was designed to hammer home the point that they did remove their clothes and assume the position.

[UsernameFatigue]

That last ep was designed to hammer home the point that they did remove their clothes and assume the position.

 

How so? A dress on the floor means nothing to me. Why would someone want to sleep in a dress? Each had other clothes with them that they were wearing in the morning. It isn't like the FS is a surprise so each had other clothes for that purpose. Or they could have slept in bra and panties, or in the buff. Doesn't mean they had intercourse. Like saber5055 said above, I have done it myself. It reallly isn't that hard (no pun intended).

[leighdear]

I just watched the clip of Caila in the car on her way out, and she absolutely was crying.  I was watching on my laptop in HD with my face about 6 inches from the screen and there were real tears, no faking.  Now, maybe they were angry tears or embarrassment tears, but they were there.  

[MsPH]

I do have a sneaking suspicion he had sex with at least JoJo and Lauren. When you've spent half the day making out in skimpy swimwear and exchanged multiple ILY's, then what else is there to do? Seems like a natural progression. Andi and Kaitlyn had sex with Nick while crazy about their final picks and other Bachelorettes had sex with two men as well. Bob Guiney had sex with 5.5 women or something. I'm just not naive enough to think Ben is some exception, and I think we would've heard about it if he was. Obviously I wasn't there, but I've stopped giving these people the benefit of the doubt.

[KateeBar]

I thought this last night as well. I think she's cute but think sometimes she looks pretty, sometimes she looks a bit old and sometimes she looks just like the elf who wanted to be a dentist in Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer, as did her dad.

OMG. That is right on. She's really very attractive, it's just an odd angle now and then.

I can't even imagine how awful I'd look in high def. God bless these kids.

[Canada]

Ha!  So sweet, perfect, Christian Ben is a 'skank' too.  I did enjoy that!  I guess being a sex panther wasn't enough for Caila.  Don't worry, if you get to be the Bachelorette, at least you already have a good tagline.

 

I reckon Ben's mysterious phone call is to the F1's family... "Hi, it's Ben.  I f****d the last three chicks and you're daughter won.  Crazy!"

[nlkm9]

This is an old memory, but i remember jesse palmers final 2, the one he sent away immediately look stunned and said" if youre not picking me I think what happened between us was really innaprorpriate".

I also remmeber on the London season, it was very apparent he had slept with Chelsea (she actually changed into a nitie and kicked off her underwear) and I felt soooo bad for her...

[MsPH]

I just watched the clip of Caila in the car on her way out, and she absolutely was crying.  I was watching on my laptop in HD with my face about 6 inches from the screen and there were real tears, no faking.  Now, maybe they were angry tears or embarrassment tears, but they were there.  

 

I watched it again in HD as well and I didn't see a single tear on her face. Yes, her eyes were a bit watery after she'd been squeezing them for a while, but not one tear rolled down that I could see. I can drench my face just by seeing a dog die in a movie. I'm not saying everyone has to cry when sad, but when they sound like they're crying and look like they're crying, I kind of expect some water to come out. But that's just me.

[Padma]

I can't imagine any of these F3 -not- "sleeping with" Ben in the FS. First of all, they've been kissing and getting worked up about each other all day--following several weeks of growing intensity.  In addition, the women have each made it clear they already think of him as their boyfriend, so ... why not?  They're completely committed, and they want to show him that they love him--AND not risk losing him to another girl--when they both finally have a chance to be alone. It just makes sense.

 

Add in that he's made it clear he IS the woman's boyfriend, that he's committed to her after all these weeks--that he's in love with her, too. (Okay, he's a liar and a louse, but so adept at faking sincere feelings. Who -wouldn't- believe him at this point?)  It really wouldn't make sense to turn down the chance to really solidify your relationship and commitment when you have the chance. And even more pressure to do so knowing it's a competition and you don't want to do anything to lose him at the end!

 

I hope he let's F2 go and she says, "Great. That's a relief."  Then he proposes to F1 and she says, "We all compared notes and I know exactly how you were leading us all on. So thanks, but no thanks. I'm better than this."  And leaves poor Ben, alone and unlovable (what a line that was!) once again!

[Andromeda]

I watched it again in HD as well and I didn't see a single tear on her face. Yes, her eyes were a bit watery after she'd been squeezing them for a while, but not one tear rolled down that I could see.

Not everyone cries the same way or the same amount. Caila was constantly wiping away her tears with her fingers, not waiting for them to roll down her cheeks. Her hands are constantly near her face, and she keeps wiping her eyes (as I would do, because I wouldn't want to wait for any tears to roll all the way down my face, dangle off my chin or nose, and go plop in my lap. Ew.)

 

I took some screenshots from ABC's video of her leaving that show her wet face and eyes (and red nose), but have nowhere to host them. So here's the video.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Andromeda

[violet and green]

How so? A dress on the floor means nothing to me. Why would someone want to sleep in a dress? Each had other clothes with them that they were wearing in the morning. It isn't like the FS is a surprise so each had other clothes for that purpose. Or they could have slept in bra and panties, or in the buff. Doesn't mean they had intercourse. Like saber5055 said above, I have done it myself. It reallly isn't that hard (no pun intended).

 

You know, I didn't actually see the dress on the floor, so that did not factor into my conclusions. And I, too, have had sleep-overs without anything approaching intercourse. To my mind, it was just made explicit by the show by virtue of Bachelor code norms. 

[Canada]

Is it just me or was there some real awkwardness between Lauren and JoJo at the rose ceremony?  Maybe some comparing notes has already occurred between the women.

[Miss Slay]

Is it just me or was there some real awkwardness between Lauren and JoJo at the rose ceremony?  Maybe some comparing notes has already occurred between the women.

 

I noticed that too. It seemed like JoJo was trying to be friendly but Lauren wasn't being receptive. 

[yorklee2]

Not everyone cries the same way or the same amount. Caila was constantly wiping away her tears with her fingers, not waiting for them to roll down her cheeks. Her hands are constantly near her face, and she keeps wiping her eyes (as I would do, because I wouldn't want to wait for any tears to roll all the way down my face, dangle off my chin or nose, and go plop in my lap. Ew.)

 

I took some screenshots from ABC's video of her leaving that show her wet face and eyes (and red nose), but have nowhere to host them. So here's the video.

I saw the tears. In one shot they were laying against her lashes getting ready to fall. No they weren't running down her face but as you said she most likely wiped a lot of them away. Most people would and your right everyone doesn't cry the same way (as in copious amounts). They may have been more from anger or regret but I think in this "bach bubble" I believe she felt she loved him and they were tears of hurt also. I believe they were real tears.

 

Speaking of "bach bubble" someone stated how could smart, educated women like these women fall for a man this quickly in that short amount of time. I think they know the premise of the show going in but think it won't happen to them and their in control.Then they get in there and it's way more intense then they realized. I also don't think you can gauge a person's intellect by their emotional responses. Two separate things.

 

I once read a true story of a women who was a medical doctor, (who one would assume is pretty intelligent) who ended up marrying a guy who had already killed his previous wife. One would argue why couldn't she have sensed or knew that about him beforehand. Of course after she married him he slowly started changing from the great guy she thought she had married. Long story short, it happens. Obviously Ben's not a murderer but I used that for an example of how even intelligent people's minds and emotions can be manipulated.

Edited March 2, 2016 by yorklee2

[Andromeda]

I'm sure the clothing on the floor is meant to imply that they undressed each other in the heat of the moment before jumping into bed. Since they're wearing nice evening dresses, you'd think the women would hang them up or at least drape them over a chair, if they're just changing for bed.

 

But they could be slobs, too...  

[Dr Epi]

I have been in love with two men at the same time. It is possible, especially when you meet them at roughly the same time. It is especially possible if each brings out a different part of your personality that makes you feel good.

I have no problem with Ben telling 2 women "I love you." The women knew that he was "dating" other women and they all acknowledged that he had other relationships and they were nervous about them, as they should be. Lauren even said that she wondered if Ben had said the same thing to JoJo- so she was open to the possibility that he had strong feelings for both.

To me, it does not matter what they did before the engagement- especially if they were transparent, as Ben was. What counts is what happened after the final rose. Has Ben been faithful, has the love or connection deepened? If so, then the relationship should be ok today because what Ben and the F1 is feeling now is, hopefully, much stronger and deeper than what Ben and F1 were feeling back in November when this season was shooting.

FInally, I really do hope that Calia is not the B'ette. She is too much of a people pleaser, too smiley, she will never really let her guard down and tell the men what she thinks. I found Kaitlyn's season refreshing in that way- for the men she was not interested in, she escorted them out then and there and did not wait for a rose ceremony. Calia will wait for a RC and then afterwards want to walk out with the men and make them feel better. Boring.