S01.E04: 100% Not Guilty

[TexasGal]

I couldn't tell if the awkwardness in that scene was because some/all of them DID think he was guilty or if it was because that sort of question is not asked or even brought up in such circumstances. My legal training is limited to TV viewing, but I remember Some Lawyer Guy once saying that defense lawyers DON'T ask such questions, especially if they think their client may be guilty. But that may have just been Some Lawyer Guy's process, and not a general principle.

Yeah, I think that unless you are just looking to take a plea (which seems was Shapiro's approach to all cases all the time, which I didn't know back in the day) you really wouldn't ask that question. You find out what you need to know to present a good defense and move on.

The actor playing Fred Goldman - wow. There were a couple of shots of him where I honestly wondered if they had super imposed actual footage. One thing I always wondered - why was it always Fred and Kim but not Ron's mom? I think I remember seeing her a couple of times so she was alive. Maybe it was too hard for her to face that everyday.

[partofme]

 why was it always Fred and Kim but not Ron's mom? I think I remember seeing her a couple of times so she was alive. Maybe it was too hard for her to face that everyday.

 

Ron's mom apparently left when the kids were young, Ron hadn't seen her in 12 years and hadn't spoken to her in 2.  The last time he called her, her husband told him not to call again.

[TaraS1]

This episode made me feel really gross for even watching, knowing that Ron and Nicole's families weren't consulted and don't approve of the show.  Having lost a family member to a violent murder, I can imagine the agony of flipping through the channels one night and coming across my family's pain being dramatized for Emmy bait and, in some scenes, for laughs.  (Those Faye Resnick scenes were sickening.) I guess I just had a harder time separating myself from the fictional aspect of it all last night.

 

That being said, I continue to be so impressed by Sarah Paulson in this.  Because normally, I hate Sarah Paulson.  Hate her.  In everything.  To the point where I refuse to watch anything she's in because I hated her so much in Deadwood.  But I have to give credit where it's due, because she really disappears into this character.  As someone mentioned above, the scene where she was listening to the focus group tear her apart was really fantastic work.

[VanillaBeanne]

I think Kim Goldman is watching the show anyway. She gave an interview on ET, I think, last night and critiqued performances. She thought Marcia Clark was spot on but not anyone else. Cuba was too small and playing OJ as sympathetic, Darden comes off as mouse-y and he was not like that in real life, Kardashian was given a bigger role than the part he actually played in the trial, and Cochran was more arrogant in real life. It sounds like she is watching.

Edited February 24, 2016 by VanillaBeanne

[susannot]

I loved this episode. It got to my favorite aspect of the trial: defense attorney bickering! I was hoping they were going to go there and I was not disappointed.

Same here! All the behind the scenes legal strategizing is what fascinates me the most. Must agree with most people that the acting is just excellent. Courtney B. Vance is perfection; Connie Britton nailed Resnick, and damn, even Travolta has Shapiro down cold.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Drogo
Quote formatting.

[BananaRama]

It is interesting to watch stories that happened behind the scenes.  As I watch the show, I feel as if I am watching a sensationalized and contrived movie of the week.  There are just so many controversial hot-button topics - spousal abuse, drug abuse, celebrity couple, police chase, women's rights, perception of professional women, racial tension, the Kardashians - it is as if a someone wanted to write a story that everyone would find something in it to be offended about.  It would be an unbelievable story if we all didn't know it was true.

Edited February 24, 2016 by BananaRama

[BananaRama]

I cringe every time Robert Kardashian refers to O.J. as "Juice."  Why was Robert Kardashian so infatuated with O.J. Simpson?  Simpson is such a knuckle-head.  

[WordFreak]

What a great episode. I loved seeing the interpersonal conflicts playing out amongst the defence team, and the jury selection process. I also thought the scene with Fred Goldman and Marcia Clark was very well done, and couldn't believe the actor's uncanny resemblance to the real Fred Goldman.

 

As I watch this, I realize how little I remember about some of the actual participants in this trial. I was in high school when this all happened, and I remember major aspects of the trial and how it devolved into a sideshow, but that's about it. I confess I don't recall any of this business with Faye Resnick, but man, what a piece of work she was, if how she's being depicted is true! Also, was Shapiro really that much of a douche, or is the show playing up certain aspects of these people's personalities to ramp up the drama? If he really was that bad, all I can say is wow. I'm not usually a fan of Travolta, but he is really doing a bang-up job here of depicting Shapiro's arrogance. Too bad I'm so distracted by his face!

 

 

 

 

[TV Diva Queen]

Randomness:  Travolta is  SPOT ON.  I knew my teen crush would swing for the fences on this.  Vinnie Barbarino for President. Yeah I had the t-shirt....so what.  

 

I didn't realize how quickly Faye's book was published.  What a scam bag.  (I meant to type scum, but scam works too.)  I've always been a fan of Kyle Richards, seeing Faye now, makes me re-think my Kyle love.  I always knew Faye was shady, but this level of shady-ness sucks.  

 

Cuba is slowly becoming OJ to me.  

[BooBear]

My.GOD. The scene with Clark, Kim and Fred Goldman brought me to tears. Hearing Fred Goldman talk about Ron (in the follow up documentaries/post civil trial/after criminal verdict) always brings me to tears. But Siravo's Goldman? Gutted me. Just gutted me. The cracks in his voice, so eerily reminded me of the real Fred Goldman's voice. I have to say, that his casting is the BEST. Moreso than Vance's Cochran. Dammit, he even LOOKS like Fred Goldman. Kudos to make-up and wig people.

OMG that made me burst into tears.  It was the shaky way he was acting like he was still discombobulated by the blows he had suffered.  I work in the criminal justice system and sometimes have the option to deal with the victims and mostly, I try to avoid it because I will just go to tears. If that really happened, I feel so bad for Marcia Clark.  The only way I can really work with them is by focusing on some other aspect so I don't think about what they suffered. 

 

Overall another stellar episode. I feel like I am in the trial from the inside. I can't believe John Travolta is doing as good as he is. I actually appreciated that they touched on the idea that defense lawyers do consider bigger implications of their actions and Shapiro was worried about riots.

 

I am so into the OJ trial again!!! Ugh.

[Trace]

Re: the defense team discussing Faye's book:

 

Shapiro:  Lesbian sex, page 197
All the men:  search furiously for page 197

[MrsMoltisanti]

She was viewed by many as a gold digger

 

 

About 10 years ago, a young woman I worked with invited her mother to meet her for lunch.  For some reason the mother came into the office area and saw that I was reading an article about OJ (this was many years after the trial but still interesting to me) 

The mother said to me with a sneer on her face "She got what was coming to her".  I was flabbergasted.  Of course I didn't want to challenge the girls mother on that comment so I let it be.  Later on the young lady told me her mother (who was in her thirties) had gone from abusive boyfriend to abusive boyfriend and really had a life that was terrible and going nowhere.  I wonder if somehow this made her feel Nicole should have just shut up and took it and enjoyed the money even with the abuse. 

This case has had such impact for decades on how we view so much - Why didn't anyone help Nicole?  Why did people feel OJs fame let him off the hook somehow? Why did society allow this tragedy to become a media circus?  This show is amazing to me because it brings back so much.  I was a stay at home mom at the time and watched quite a bit of it.   This show is very well done and compelling.   The performance of Ron's father and sister brought a stillness to our room while we watched.  I felt like I couldn't breathe when he spoke, and the sister Kim next to him in her own horrible hell trying to comprehend made me tear up. 

I hope people watching now that cheered him on in LA decades ago are thinking.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

How's Jury Selection Going In American Crime Story? Not Great, (For) Bob!
As The People v. OJ Simpson seats its jury, Sarah D. Bunting judges the acting.

[BooBear]

This case has had such impact for decades on how we view so much - Why didn't anyone help Nicole?  Why did people feel OJs fame let him off the hook somehow?

 

The lesson I get from this more than anything is fame. Fame is the evil broke everything that was happening. And created the Kardiasian kids <g>.  Fame made it so no one helped Nicole. Still pretty terrifying. Perhaps it isn't fame so much but the idea that if people "know" you, they will always take your side. And fame made it so everyone felt they knew OJ they were ( and still are ) unable to believe they didn't know him. They didn't know Marsha Clark, they didn't know Nicole, they didn't know Ron... so it was easier to believe they must have "done something" because OJ is cool, you know him, he wouldn't do it, and if he did, he must have been pushed into it. Fame is the terrifying evil. 

 

I think Marcia Clark thought she understood fame because of doing the high profile Rebecca Shaffer case but Rebecca Shaffer wasn't that big a star (how many people here know what I am talking about?) and it was an entirely different dynamic that the famous person was the victim, so, the fame dynamic worked for Marcia Clark there, but not with OJ.

[Kbilly]

"A footnote to his own murder".  What a heartbreaking, and poignant statement.

 

This scene really broke my heart. I was 13 when this happened and I remember having the perception then that Ron was somehow tacky---just like what Goldman said, that he was portrayed as this kind of sleazy, cheesy male model. It's so incredibly unfair how the victims always get lost. I cried during the Goldman scene because everything he said was so completely true. His life was brutally stolen and it was like Ron didn't even matter. 

 

The Faye Resnick scene and character was shot and styled to make her like one of American Horror Story's super creepy disturbing characters--it worked. Every time Faye gnawed on a crudite it made me ill. I can't believe she's still on TV.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Kbilly

[TobinAlbers]

 

I think Marcia Clark thought she understood fame because of doing the high profile Rebecca Shaffer case but Rebecca Shaffer wasn't that big a star (how many people here know what I am talking about?)

I do. I'll never forget how stunned my 12 year old self was to see the 'People' magazine front cover news story about her and her death. I used to watch 'My Sister Sam' and it was unreal (I was young) that she could be murdered like that. Anytime a movie/tv star has issues with a stalker, Rebecca Shaffer is usually invoked.

 

Vance and Paulson are killing it, but Lane and Travolta just owned this episode. From Bailey's look when the word 'pro bono' was dropped to the barely contained rage on Travolta's face when Johnnie not once, not twice, but three times upended him in front of witnesses. By the way Shapiro was acting, you'd have thought he wanted to murder Cochran himself.

 

And you know what? Props to Cheryl Ladd as Shapiro's wife. She's got a thankless job but even she's not phoning it in.

Edited February 24, 2016 by TobinAlbers

[Mittengirl]

I don't think Darden is being portrayed as mouse-y, I think he is being portrayed as the only sane person in the asylum. Well, Hodgman seems pretty normal, too.

When they showed the conference room scene with all of the lawyers having the teleconference with O.J. about who should be lead attorney, I kind of felt for OJ. Not that I felt pity for him, but that this guy who is literally in it up to his eyeballs has to broker a peace deal between his lawyers. I was waiting for some kind of reaction alongside the lines of "I've been charged with 2 murders and you guys are arguing about who gets to be lead attorney?!" If my ass was on the line, I would be pretty irate that my lawyers were busy having a pissing match.

I wish they would put some kind of a date/time stamp up every now and then so we would have some idea of how time is passing. We got a little with OJ mentioning missing Halloween with his kids and Thanksgiving coming up, but that was easy to miss.

How long was it between Resnick approaching publishers and the book coming out?

Preliminary Hearing read to me like a cast name, as well. Why show it in the middle like that?

ETA - Cheryl Ladd! I knew I recognized her. And the guy from JAG as the writer. There are an awful lot of familiar looking faces in this show, that I can't put a name to. Thank goodness so many of you can.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Mittengirl

[PrincessSteel]

For the first time ever I am completely at odds with my fellow PTV posters. The writing, acting and direction of this show veer into camp more often than not. The scene between Marcia Clark and the Goldmans that moved so many of you just made me cringe at the ACTING happening, and I say this as someone who weeps at the very sight of the real Fred Goldman. Any scene with OJ that is not a facial close up just drives home how (physically) mis-cast Cuba is. The show overall manages to be riveting and boring at the same time...I dozed off during the final minutes of this ep.

[VCRTracking]

I'll always have a soft spot for Cheryl Ladd who had to replace the enormously popular Farrah Fawcett who had left Charlie's Angels after just it's first season but she did a great job.

[VCRTracking]

I am a female trial attorney and I can say 100% that the sorts of things Marcia Clark had to deal with still happen today.  For example,  I have to give so much thought to my "first day of trial suit" to make sure it is traditional enough to satisfy jurors expectations of what they think I should look like. Meanwhile my male counterparts throw on a white shirt, dark suit and a tie and that is it.  Jurors judge females initially on their looks.  You just don't hear the same comments about the male attorneys.

 

 

I went to Jury Duty selection last year and the young female ADA prosecuting the case was so attractive I thought "Am I on Law & Order?" I noticed most of the female lawyers walking the hallways of the courthouse were dressed sharply in skirtsuits and high heels and really put together hair and makeup.

Edited February 24, 2016 by VCRTracking

[TV Diva Queen]

I don't think Darden is being portrayed as mouse-y, I think he is being portrayed as the only sane person in the asylum. Well, Hodgman seems pretty normal, too.

When they showed the conference room scene with all of the lawyers having the teleconference with O.J. about who should be lead attorney, I kind of felt for OJ. Not that I felt pity for him, but that this guy who is literally in it up to his eyeballs has to broker a peace deal between his lawyers. I was waiting for some kind of reaction alongside the lines of "I've been charged with 2 murders and you guys are arguing about who gets to be lead attorney?!" If my ass was on the line, I would be pretty irate that my lawyers were busy having a pissing match.

I wish they would put some kind of a date/time stamp up every now and then so we would have some idea of how time is passing. We got a little with OJ mentioning missing Halloween with his kids and Thanksgiving coming up, but that was easy to miss.

How long was it between Resnick approaching publishers and the book coming out?

Preliminary Hearing read to me like a cast name, as well. Why show it in the middle like that?

ETA - Cheryl Ladd! I knew I recognized her. And the guy from JAG as the writer. There are an awful lot of familiar looking faces in this show, that I can't put a name to. Thank goodness so many of you can.

Only OJ can name the lead attorney.  He's the client, he hired Shapiro as lead, and it was OJ's duty to tell Shapirohe's no longer lead.  

[33kaitykaity]

Re: the opening scene and the clubbing and partying and cocaine and the plastic "women," is that really how OJ expressed his alpha maleness as a man in his mid/late forties?  Maybe I'm out of touch because I've never been to LA, but that scene just seems so adolescent.  

[Maharincess]

I do. I'll never forget how stunned my 12 year old self was to see the 'People' magazine front cover news story about her and her death. I used to watch 'My Sister Sam' and it was unreal (I was young) that she could be murdered like that. Anytime a movie/tv star has issues with a stalker, Rebecca Shaffer is usually invoked.

It's Rebecca Shaffer and Theresa Saldana that I think about when I hear of celebrity stalkers.

So sad.

[Jade Foxx]

Re: the opening scene and the clubbing and partying and cocaine and the plastic "women," is that really how OJ expressed his alpha maleness as a man in his mid/late forties?  Maybe I'm out of touch because I've never been to LA, but that scene just seems so adolescent.  

 

Not sure..but the re-enactment of OJ's goofy ass doing "The Running Man" in the club cracked me up.

[helenamonster]

Oh, in those Larry King scenes with Faye Resnick and F. Lee Bailey on King, was that a stunt double (the shot was a pull-back) or King re-playing himself, because he looked 100 years old then, just as he still kind of looks 100 years old? I'd simply say it wasn't him at all, except that they had perfectly matched ambient audio levels between Connie Britton and King's voice. I mean if they re-mixed King's voice from the original recordings, used a double for the scene, and mixed in the original audio they did it perfectly.

 

It's the real King, he was listed as a guest star in the opening credits. They never zoomed in on him I guess to avoid the fact that he's now 20 years older, but you're right...he's one of those guys that's always looked 100 years old.

 

I wish they would put some kind of a date/time stamp up every now and then so we would have some idea of how time is passing. We got a little with OJ mentioning missing Halloween with his kids and Thanksgiving coming up, but that was easy to miss.

 

I was thinking that too. They were talking about Halloween and then I think later in the episode they mentioned the New Year. I don't mind so much time passing in a single episode; there were certainly long stretches of time where nothing of interest/importance happened. But it's a little disconcerting. A time stamp in the corner would not have gone amiss. That's a pretty glaring oversight, imo, especially for those of us watching who were too young to remember any of it.

[charmed1]

I have to revert back to my own personal timeline to recollect the events. When the murders occurred, I'd just finished my junior year of high school. When the verdict was read, I was a freshman in college.

[Umbelina]

I cringe every time Robert Kardashian refers to O.J. as "Juice."  Why was Robert Kardashian so infatuated with O.J. Simpson?  Simpson is such a knuckle-head.  

 

Many, many, many friends, family members, coworkers, fans, and newscasters called OJ Juice.  He was always called by his nicknames, they were interchangeable.  Maybe his mother still called him Orenthal, but I don't think anyone else did.

 

As far as "this is all made up stuff!" 

 

Well, not so much.  Pretty much everyone involved wrote books.  Pretty much everyone involved gave interviews, televised or print.  Journalists also became friends with both victims, attorneys, and OJ's friends and family, even with OJ.  There is no way this entire series is just based on one book.  It may be hard for people who weren't around during that spectacle to realize, but this trial was everywhere.  Every newspaper.  Every interview show, even Oprah.  Every news show had nightly updates, then there were 20-20 and Nightline, and the other news-magazine shows as well.  Every radio station that had "talk," and even some who just played music, back when real DJs existed.  MANY magazines, other than strict fashion magazines, and children's magazines and a couple of other specialized type ran tidbits or articles about ANY person they could get to talk.  Most "friends of" talked, people who served Nicole coffee or sold her running shoes talked.  People who played tennis with Ron talked.  Faye obviously talked, Kris talked, but at least she didn't write a book, and her words were always in defense of Nicole.  There are pages and pages of civil trial testimony and depositions that shed a great deal of light on things in the criminal trial too.  This show is obviously not sticking with one book for information, for just one example, it's obvious Shiller's book is being heavily used about the lawyers, Faye's, Marsha's, Darden's, and certainly Dominick Dunne's, and many others are being used for the details.

 

They ALL talked.  Most for money, but some for their little brush with fame, and some because they really wanted to set the record straight, or express something personal, the Goldman book, RON comes to mind there.

 

Anyway, of course private conversations are somewhat fictionalized, but it's also quite obvious that not only were they likely (The Goldmans and the lead prosecutor, Robert Kardashian talking to his kids about their confusion about whether or not "Uncle OJ" did it, when mom says he did, etc.  The conversations between Marsha and her coworkers are gleaned from their books, but still, not word for word.)  This is a dramatization, but as far as I've seen so far?  It's sticking very close to the story, and certainly the feel.  Fred DID say almost exactly those words in many interviews on the courthouse steps, and later on various television shows.  He did become close to the prosecuting team, and the police, and later gave a party to thank them for their efforts.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Umbelina

[helenamonster]

Also, I found the arguing over the hair samples to be so obnoxious. I know Cochran was following the strategy of objecting to everything the prosecution said, but I can't believe the judge went along with it. 100 hairs is not a lot; the average human head has 100,000, and we lose 50 to 100 each day anyway. Just ugh. Mountains out of molehills. But I guess that's trial lawyering for ya.

 

Someone mentioned upthread about how this story features so many different issues that it would come off as a bad Lifetime movie if it weren't true (paraphrasing)...I was thinking something similar, kind of like, "It's a shame this is true, because this could have made for a great work of fiction in the right hands."

[Deanie87]

Until now, I had no idea how much I needed to see Ross Gellar, Rod Tidwell and Tammy Taylor (?) throwing down together in a Soul Train line.  It was everything I never knew I wanted!

 

I loved that Marcia had whiskey AND tequila hidden away in her desk and I really liked the scene with her and Darden.  I found it interesting that both Clark and Cochrane seemed to get it wrong about the black women jurors, but for different reasons.  The scene with the jury polling was very telling, but I also found it hard to believe that the jury expert and the prosecution seemed so shocked that the views fell along racial lines.  That seems very naive to me given what was going in LA at the time, but it could just be me knowing what happens in hindsight.

 

This case has had such impact for decades on how we view so much - Why didn't anyone help Nicole?  Why did people feel OJs fame let him off the hook somehow?

 

 

Well, if her "friend" Resnick is any kind of example of who she was surrounding herself with, its no wonder.  Resnick made it almost sound like the OJ/Nicole was, you know, just passionate kids who couldn't live with each other and couldn't live without each other.  Like it was a game or something.  Having said that, it seems that Kris Kardashian and Nicole's family didn't view that way, but it does make you wonder why it went on so long seeing as how it was a barely kept secret around town.

[mojoween]

Watching the YouTube of OJ pleading not guilty, and I know this horse has been dead, buried, resurrected and dead again, just reinforces how wrong I find Cuba for the part.

Cuba's face is too wrinkly to be OJ and OJ's voice is so smooth. I feel badly that Cuba now has permanent raspy voice, but I don't know why they asked him to do that.

[Uncle Benzene]

Man, why oh why does this show feel so compelled to shoehorn Kim and Khloe into EVERY LAST FUCKING... oh, wait... so THAT'S why this here episode thread has about half the posts they usually do the next day. Thank goodness there was a Real Housewife in this one. Or something.

 

For the first time ever I am completely at odds with my fellow PTV posters. The writing, acting and direction of this show veer into camp more often than not. The scene between Marcia Clark and the Goldmans that moved so many of you just made me cringe at the ACTING happening

 

Right there with ya. This whole series so far has had me feeling like a jerk because I'm not usually so out of sync with the prevailing wisdom. Anyway, I thought the Fred Goldman scene was EASILY the cheesiest, most eyeroll-inducing thing this show has done yet. And that's saying an awful lot, considering the bar they've set. It wasn't his words, which were points that needed to be made. It was just that the delivery was so over the top. For me, the scenery chewing was worse than anything Cuba or Travolta has done on this show, and possibly even worse than anything Nathan Lane has ever done in anything. I mean, for crying out loud, this show actually had me muttering "oh shut the fuck up already" at freakin' Fred Goldman. Sheesh! What planet am I on?

 

Still enjoying the hell out of this show though, despite... well... you know... lots of shit. Lots and lots of shit. 

 

Oh, and I'd also like to go ahead and nominate "The Resnick Retching Realm" as the title for the inevitably necessary Faye thread.

[BananaRama]

When they showed the conference room scene with all of the lawyers having the teleconference with O.J. about who should be lead attorney, I kind of felt for OJ. Not that I felt pity for him, but that this guy who is literally in it up to his eyeballs has to broker a peace deal between his lawyers. I was waiting for some kind of reaction alongside the lines of "I've been charged with 2 murders and you guys are arguing about who gets to be lead attorney?!" If my ass was on the line, I would be pretty irate that my lawyers were busy having a pissing match.

Watching this scene, I wasn't thinking that, but I understand what you are saying and you are right. I was thinking that scene shows that OJ still doesn't get it - "it" being that he is being tried for murder. In this scene, he is still trying to be liked by everyone. It also demonstrates how stupid he is, mixing up his football analogies, trailing off, not being able to make a decision. Shapiro wanted him to plead guilty to manslaughter. The other lawyers wanted to defend him in court and they knew that Cochran would fight for him. OJ wasn't smart enough to see who was the better lawyer.

[Umbelina]

It's weird, because I remember Fred Goldman, on the courthouse steps, saying and sounding almost exactly like the actor playing him.  This isn't the exact one, but it's one of them.

 

I'll keep looking.  Fred comes up a couple of times in this one.

 

The one I remember is him saying the "footnote" in his own murder.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Umbelina

[Jel]

There is a fair bit of Master Thespianism on display. I can't really argue with that.

[SFoster21]

Many, many, many friends, family members, coworkers, fans, and newscasters called OJ Juice. He was always called by his nicknames, they were interchangeable. Maybe his mother still called him Orenthal, but I don't think anyone else did.

As far as "this is all made up stuff!"

Well, not so much. Pretty much everyone involved wrote books. Pretty much everyone involved gave interviews, televised or print. Journalists also became friends with both victims, attorneys, and OJ's friends and family, even with OJ. There is no way this entire series is just based on one book. It may be hard for people who weren't around during that spectacle to realize, but this trial was everywhere. Every newspaper. Every interview show, even Oprah. Every news show had nightly updates, then there were 20-20 and Nightline, and the other news-magazine shows as well. Every radio station that had "talk," and even some who just played music, back when real DJs existed. MANY magazines, other than strict fashion magazines, and children's magazines and a couple of other specialized type ran tidbits or articles about ANY person they could get to talk. Most "friends of" talked, people who served Nicole coffee or sold her running shoes talked. People who played tennis with Ron talked. Faye obviously talked, Kris talked, but at least she didn't write a book, and her words were always in defense of Nicole. There are pages and pages of civil trial testimony and depositions that shed a great deal of light on things in the criminal trial too. This show is obviously not sticking with one book for information, for just one example, it's obvious Shiller's book is being heavily used about the lawyers, Faye's, Marsha's, Darden's, and certainly Dominick Dunne's, and many others are being used for the details.

They ALL talked. Most for money, but some for their little brush with fame, and some because they really wanted to set the record straight, or express something personal, the Goldman book, RON comes to mind there.

Anyway, of course private conversations are somewhat fictionalized, but it's also quite obvious that not only were they likely (The Goldmans and the lead prosecutor, Robert Kardashian talking to his kids about their confusion about whether or not "Uncle OJ" did it, when mom says he did, etc. The conversations between Marsha and her coworkers are gleaned from their books, but still, not word for word.) This is a dramatization, but as far as I've seen so far? It's sticking very close to the story, and certainly the feel. Fred DID say almost exactly those words in many interviews on the courthouse steps, and later on various television shows. He did become close to the prosecuting team, and the police, and later gave a party to thank them for their efforts.

That is how I remember it as well. Perfectly put. Still have my shelf of books and magazines about the case. Paid attention at the time, as well.

[Pepperminty]

It was painful to see how naively optimistic Marcia was to assume that the jurors would consider the violent abuse paramount and judge the facts fairly and logically (as she said, they are smart, had good answers and we should trust them).

 

I hate Faye so much now.

 

Am really enjoying this series, the acting is fantastic and it's wonderful to see the behind-the-scenes.

[rho]

Also, I found the arguing over the hair samples to be so obnoxious. I know Cochran was following the strategy of objecting to everything the prosecution said, but I can't believe the judge went along with it. 100 hairs is not a lot; the average human head has 100,000, and we lose 50 to 100 each day anyway. Just ugh. Mountains out of molehills. But I guess that's trial lawyering for ya.

 

Someone mentioned upthread about how this story features so many different issues that it would come off as a bad Lifetime movie if it weren't true (paraphrasing)...I was thinking something similar, kind of like, "It's a shame this is true, because this could have made for a great work of fiction in the right hands."

 

DNA hair samples must be plucked from the scalp. The only important part is the follicle. They can't just take a set of sheers and snip off random bits and they could easily argue that a big baby like OJ can't have 100 hairs pulled from his head. I think Marcia was well aware of that and went in with a high request knowing they would fight her every step of the way.

[BooBear]

I do. I'll never forget how stunned my 12 year old self was to see the 'People' magazine front cover news story about her and her death. I used to watch 'My Sister Sam' and it was unreal (I was young) that she could be murdered like that. Anytime a movie/tv star has issues with a stalker, Rebecca Shaffer is usually invoked.

In discussing this with my 27 year old co worker... no clue.  What was even more terrifying... I had to explain to her who Pam Dawber was...  even at that time I don't know if my social group really knew much about it.  I was only so into it because I was about the age of "Sam" on the show.

[Umbelina]

It was painful to see how naively optimistic Marcia was to assume that the jurors would consider the violent abuse paramount and judge the facts fairly and logically (as she said, they are smart, had good answers and we should trust them).

 

I hate Faye so much now.

 

Am really enjoying this series, the acting is fantastic and it's wonderful to see the behind-the-scenes.

Yeah, it's strange to think of it this way, but Marcia's problem was that she was not a racist.  She was colorblind, and it bit her in the ass.  She thought people were people, and that all people would care most about justice, regardless of the color of their skin.  She didn't consider different life experiences, or agendas, she just looked at the evidence.

 

She should have been more aware of the Rodney King effect, and she should have questioned Darden more if/when he really did try to hint to her that lots of people wanted OJ acquitted.  She should have listened to the jury consultant about "gold digger" and the resentment AA female jurors had toward a white woman landing OJ as a husband.  She was naive.

[Pepperminty]

Yeah, it's strange to think of it this way, but Marcia's problem was that she was not a racist.  She was colorblind, and it bit her in the ass.  She thought people were people, and that all people would care most about justice, regardless of the color of their skin.

 

Exactly.

[Avaleigh]

I thought this was the best episode so far. I'm really enjoying the drama between Cochrane and Shapiro. I feel like the Dream Team part could be its own movie without OJ even being featured as a character.

 

Shapiro really miscalculated with Bailey. 

Watching Marcia Clark now, I feel like Bill Paxton in Titanic, yelling at the captain for ignoring the iceberg warnings. ]You had the jury data in your hands! Why did you not listen? Argh!

 

The show continues to knock it out of the park with casting. I heard Connie Britton for about two minutes before she disappeared into Faye Resnick. I can't get over what this show has done with these actors -- it's like they're completely embodying their roles. So fascinating.

 

Love the behind the scenes perspective on the defense team -- I'd forgotten about the reports of in-fighting, but it came back to me when they mentioned it. Courtney B. Vance is still terrific, but especially in the press conference scene, I think he's now capturing that charisma I've read other posters mention that the real Cochran had. So talented.

 

One funny/random thing: anybody else notice they started rolling the credits and then went to a black screen that said "Preliminary Hearing" and then went back to the credits, so it looked like Preliminary Hearing was a member of the cast. Heh...this show.

This was the hardest part to watch and my reaction was similar. I'm just like how are alarm bells not ringing at this point. So frustrating that this is considered to be a jury of his peers. 

 

I thought Connie was great. Like Vance with Cochran and Travolta with Shapiro, she has the sleaze factor down perfectly. I will say that in terms of mannerisms Faye seems to have more control of her body when I see her appear on the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. Connie's Faye moved a lot but maybe that was a nod to how jittery she was feeling being newly sober. 

 

They got a lot of drama out of the preliminary hearing that's for sure. The defense just get slimier at every turn. 

[Mittengirl]

I have to admit, I landed on the "terribly cheesy" side of the Clark - Goldman scene. It was just way over the top. Although I have to admit, I have always found something about Fred Goldman off-putting. No idea what, maybe he reminds me of someone I dislike, but it is there. I can certainly sympathize with his pain, but I just don't like him.

Speaking of cheesy, am I supposed to believe that football story Cochran told OJ? Because I swear I could smell the bullshit through my TV.

The "lead attorney" conference call, to me, didn't make OJ look like he still doesn't "get it", he just seemed like a man completely over his head, exhausted and confused. And who wouldn't feel that way? Just being in a jail cell for that long would make me a little squirrelly, I think.

[RemoteControlFreak]

Did Shapiro really offer a plea that early in and did he really believe OJ was guilty? 

I'm not sure about the plea but my guess is that all of OJ's attorney believed he committed the crime. They were familiar enough with crimes, criminals and evidence to not think otherwise. Their job was to defend him anyway. That's how our legal system works.

 

And also, am I reading correctly that Faye Resnick is now on one of the Real Housewives series?  I watch plenty of TV crap, but not that crap.

Edited February 25, 2016 by RemoteControlFreak

[Umbelina]

I'm not sure about the plea but my guess is that all of OJ's attorney believed he committed the crime. They were familiar enough with crimes, criminals and evidence to not think otherwise. Their job was to defend him anyway. That's how our legal system works.

 

And also, am I reading correctly that Faye Resnick is now on one of the Real Housewives series?  I watch plenty of TV crap, but not that crap.

She's been on Real Housewives of Beverly Hills several times as a "friend of."  Kyle Richards, sister of Kathy Hilton and child star Kim Richards is Faye's best friend.  Every time she's appeared the fan backlash is loud.  I think Kyle wanted her hired on full time, but no one watching the show wanted that.  She's odious.  Famously, Camille Grammar, then still married to Kelsey Grammar, on her first season called Faye "The Morally Corrupt Faye Resnick" and it stuck.

 

This season she was back, along with a new housewife, Kathryn, obviously to try to capitalize on this show.  Faye mentioned Kathryn, and her then husband, Marcus Allen who had an affair with Nicole in the book.  The "row" they ended up having was tepid at best, with Faye downing tequila as fast as Kyle could refill her glass.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Umbelina

[TattleTeeny]

One funny/random thing: anybody else notice they started rolling the credits and then went to a black screen that said "Preliminary Hearing" and then went back to the credits, so it looked like Preliminary Hearing was a member of the cast. Heh...this show.

 

YES! I was all, "What the...?" and rewound it! My BF said, "You don't suppose someone's name actually is Plea Hearing, do you?" Same font, same spot in the screen, and not even a break in between! Weird!

[Setra]

Re: the defense team discussing Faye's book:

 

Shapiro:  Lesbian sex, page 197

All the men:  search furiously for page 197

I know this show isn't meant to be funny, but I roared at that!

[txhorns79]

The actor playing Fred Goldman - wow. There were a couple of shots of him where I honestly wondered if they had super imposed actual footage. One thing I always wondered - why was it always Fred and Kim but not Ron's mom? I think I remember seeing her a couple of times so she was alive. Maybe it was too hard for her to face that everyday.

 

He looked like him, but I really thought someone, anyone, should have stepped in to tell the actor to take things down by about a thousand.  I think if the scene had been played less "I'm the guy in the Law and Order episode who ends up killing the perp at the end on the court steps after he gets off," and just a tad more subtle, I think it would have been a very powerful scene. 

 

 

Yeah, it's strange to think of it this way, but Marcia's problem was that she was not a racist.  She was colorblind, and it bit her in the ass.  She thought people were people, and that all people would care most about justice, regardless of the color of their skin.  She didn't consider different life experiences, or agendas, she just looked at the evidence.

 

I think she made the mistake of approaching this case like she approached her other cases.  She made some poor choices, and there was no one around who she would listen to that could tell her she was wrong.  My heart did break a little for her when the focus group was saying all those awful things.   

Edited February 25, 2016 by txhorns79

[Umbelina]

I'm really curious, this isn't a smart assed post.  For those of you who thought the actor playing Fred Goldman was over the top, did you see him (*Fred) speak in real time, during the trial? 

 

Not just the video I posted above, but in life?  Because honestly, for me, who did watch when it was all happening, he NAILED that portrayal, in spite of the wig issues.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Umbelina

[txhorns79]

Not just the video I posted above, but in life?  Because honestly, for me, who did watch when it was all happening, he NAILED that portrayal, in spite of the wig issues.

 

He may have nailed the portrayal, but it didn't work in terms of the scene.  He came off hysterical and crazed, in a way that didn't mesh well with what Sarah Paulson was doing. 

[Kromm]

I thought that the show did a good job with shedding light on what possibly made Cochran tick. That speech in jail about how OJ's football feats inspired him kind of hit on how Cochran, aside from his ambition, might have genuinely been personally invested in keeping a black icon from being bested by a police system he had resented since the early days of his career, regardless of this particular client's guilt or innocence. You really get a sense of where he could have been coming from.

Here's the thing (or rather the several things):

1.) Cochran didn't really say any of this--the show writers made it up.

2.) I had a feeling in my gut watching it that there was a kind of possibility that we weren't meant to be sure if (fictional) Cochran was being sincere, or if hr was just spinning a story to get OJ on his side. We saw in previous episodes a lot of cynicism from (fictional) Cochran, and that at least among his own confidants that his morality was all centered on the long-game of social justice and not particularly on what he did to get it.