S20.E08: Week 8

[bravofan27]

Amanda looks like a baby dragon. She's adorable. As far as the kids, kids meet people all the time. They have to deal with strangers at church, at stores, friends coming over, soon school. They won't die because some guy played with them. They will be okay. 

[hyacinth]

Violetr and Yorklee2, thank you so much for the kind welcome!   I already like it here!  :-)   

 

Yorklee, I see that it was already explained but TWOP was a TV message board that had pages of posts about popular show episodes. It was often more fun to read the messages than to watch the shows. :-)  

 

Like I said, I do like Ben but I personally don't find him attractive.  If he were a dog, he'd be like a big labrador retriever.  (I had to look up how to spell that, lol.)    

Edited February 25, 2016 by hyacinth

[yorklee2]

 

TWoP ... Television Without Pity. Gone but not forgotten. Mods were strict, which is why I went through four identities before I stopped posting there altogether. After closing all threads for posting, the site stayed up about a year as a read-only, but now is gone altogether. That's when we all came over here. TWoP was a live tv chat site for many years, and extremely popular.

Thanks for the information Saber. The ABC message board just posted a message saying they were shutting it down and that was that. So glad I found this site. I love to read others comments and participate.

 

The heck, you've just described every man and relationship I've ever had in my VERY long life. All men are salesmen when it comes to THEM as the product being sold.

You nailed it!

Edited February 25, 2016 by yorklee2

[Armchair Critic]

Ben doesn't do much for me, but at least he didn't do a Bob Guiney and go from well liked nice guy to total douche.

[TheFinalRose]

Jojo and Amanda.... well, my advice to Ben is to look at Mom and know THAT is what you're going to be living with in the future.  Run!!!  Those were not good looks.

 

 

I wouldn't necessarily lump Amanda's mom in with JoJo's. I thought Amanda's mom was a typical older/middle aged woman who hadn't paid the plastic surgeon whereas it was obvious JoJo's mom had been under the knife/needle etc.  

 

Ah, TwoP.  I have already forgotten about that place. This place seems so much homey-er. 

[JudyObscure]

Did anyone else see it, when he was barefoot at the beach?  Ben has cankles!

[Bugs Meany]

I wouldn't necessarily lump Amanda's mom in with JoJo's. I thought Amanda's mom was a typical older/middle aged woman who hadn't paid the plastic surgeon whereas it was obvious JoJo's mom had been under the knife/needle etc.

 

And let's be honest, it's the mom's weight that a guy would pay attention to.

[Mabinogia]

 As far as the kids, kids meet people all the time. They have to deal with strangers at church, at stores, friends coming over, soon school. They won't die because some guy played with them. They will be okay.

 

That's why her whole "I haven't introduced any of the men I dated in the ten minutes between getting divorced and coming on this show" thing is so stupid. So what if you do? You don't have to introduce a guy like "okay, girls, this could well be your new daddy" just, "Hey, this is Ben, he's gonna hang out with us today". They don't care.

 

The only reason it's icky in this situation is because the girls have, one would assume, missed their mommy and rather than getting her back they get her and this guy and this camera crew and it's not really much of a reunion since it's not really about them but about her and Ben. But even with all that, they'll be fine. They need to get used to it since Amanda is fine with leaving them for long periods of time for totally stupid reasons like being on a tv show.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Mabinogia

[hyacinth]

 

Ben doesn't do much for me, but at least he didn't do a Bob Guiney and go from well liked nice guy to total douche.

 

Yes!  I couldn't agree more.  Bob seemed to view the women as his harem.  I liked Andrew Firestone the best of the Bachelors.  He seemed gracious to all the contestants, and sincere about the process.   Also, wine. 

 

 

Did anyone else see it, when he was barefoot at the beach?  Ben has cankles!

 

I missed that!   Thanks for pointing it out.  

Edited February 25, 2016 by hyacinth

[MakeMeLaugh]

In the real world a lot of people fall in love and commit to each other without meeting the parents first. I think Ben can be happy with his choice no matter what the mom or dad in law looks like.

I do think this season has been refreshing and devoid of floozieness on either side. At this week's rose ceremony all the b'ettes looked really happy to see each other--they are really nice girls. No one has snuck into Ben's room late at night or taken a two hour "nap" with him, and there haven't been any foreplay at the restaurant scenes like the icky ickiness that was Nick with Kaitlyn (both of their photos are in the dictionary next to the definition of floozy).

And mom of Jojo casually chugging from the champagne bottle is reality show gold, hands down the best ever. Now I do want Joelle (such a pretty name) just for the family scenes we might see.

Edited February 25, 2016 by MakeMeLaugh

[jmonkey]

At this point I'm just waiting for Ben to pull a full Mesnick. 

 

Lauren B.-I'd say Ben crying to Lauren's sister is a pretty good sign that Lauren B. will win this season. When Lauren B's sister went in for the hug, I was concerned Ben was going to get confused and try to make out with her. I'd be fine with Lauren B. winning since I don't wanna see her as The Bachelorette. She's not fun to watch, but she's certainly not objectionable either. I feel the same about Ben, so they seem like a good match.

 

Caila-She'd be my pick, and I think she had the coolest hometown date. That Filipino food looked delicious. I think Caila's the most attractive and will age the best based on her mom. Besides her dad is CEO of a toy company, so cha-ching! I don't understand why she moved around so much and claimed to not have any roots in a particular city. Maybe her dad had to move around a lot for work.

 

Jojo-Jojo sure did have a rough week with the letter and roses from her ex (great timing, producers) and the grand inquisition from her mafiaesque family. The Bachelorette gig is no longer a sure thing for her. I gotta believe that her brother being on "Ready for Love" gave her family some insight into how these shows work and that's why Jojo's family was a little more harsh than the other families in their cross examination of Ben. I think Jojo might go next week. Typically TB doesn't like being challenged by the families. TB will never say that a contestant's family is the reason for elimination, but I think it could be a factor when looking for ways to distinguish between finalists.

 

Amanda-I'm so glad Amanda's gone. Ben should've had the decency to send her home weeks ago. No, I don't think appearing on TV was at all detrimental to her kids, but I'm sure they would've liked having their mom around for the time she was missing. One of her complaints about her kid's dad was he wasn't involved in the lives of his daughters and yet she leaves them to appear on reality TV. Let's hope she doesn't go on BIP and tries to find love IRL instead. I can't deal with that voice, and It ticks me off when these parents keep trying to extend their 15 minutes when they should be at home being parents. She's right though. Ben should've eliminated her in her home like he did with Hailey in Vegas. That commute from LA to Orange County is a killer.

Edited February 25, 2016 by jmonkey

[saber5055]

Caila's dad just gave off a major creepy vibe and his worship of the Phillipino community was strange to me.

 

I don't know. I didn't think so. I know one guy (caucasian) who liked Asian women and married a Japanese woman in a very Japanese ceremony. Another guy (again, caucasian) was so attracted to black women (their skin is beautiful) that he divorced his (white) wife and married an African American. Both of those (white) men were drawn to other races. There is nothing wrong with that. People feel comfortable with what they are comfortable with. (Grammar note: Never use a preposition to end a sentence with!)

 

It's always been said that if one is looking to marry someone, check out the mom/dad because that's what your spouse will look like down the road. I always think of that during hometowns.

 

Did we see Ben's hometown last season? I was off-and-on with Kaitlyn so missed it if we saw her meet Mr. and Mrs. Ben. Although I guess we met them last week. I hope they get a free trip to Bahamas, or to whatever tropic isle TPTB are sending everyone so Ben can propose. 

 

While it made me nervous to go OT to post about TWoP here, this morning I remembered back on that site, so as not to go OT, I posted in reply to some OT question that I would PM that person with an answer. And the mod banned me from the site, stating the person would know I was PMing when he/she GOT the PM, so I was out-of-line to post that I would PM that person.

 

Yeah, it was a crazy place. But still, there were lots of nice people and long-time friends were made there.

[leighdear]

Did we see Ben's hometown last season? I was off-and-on with Kaitlyn so missed it if we saw her meet Mr. and Mrs. Ben. Although I guess we met them last week. I hope they get a free trip to Bahamas, or to whatever tropic isle TPTB are sending everyone so Ben can propose. 

We didn't meet Dad & Mom Higgins last season, as Kaitlyn basically kicked him out of bed, out of Ireland and out of her life in one fell swoop.  Then they flew Shawn & Nick's families to a resort in Utah to do the "hometown" thing that wasn't in hometowns.  

 

The finale is in Jamaica (Per the ABC website!), so I imagine Ma & Pa Higgins will be there as per usual.  Ben seems very close to his folks, so they most probably will be there.  

Edited February 25, 2016 by leighdear

[Mu Shu]

I just realized that Jo Jo's family are the Rizcheks from "Sixteen Candles".

[yorklee2]

 

Caila-She'd be my pick, and I think she had the coolest hometown date. That Filipino food looked delicious. I think Caila's the most attractive and will age the best based on her mom. Besides her dad is CEO of a toy company, so cha-ching! I don't understand why she moved around so much and claimed to not have any roots in a particular city. Maybe her dad had to move around a lot for work.

 

Jojo-Jojo sure did have a rough week with the letter and roses from her ex (great timing, producers) and the grand inquisition from her mafiaesque family. The Bachelorette gig is no longer a sure thing for her. I gotta believe that her brother being on "Ready for Love" gave her family some insight into how these shows work and that's why Jojo's family was a little more harsh than the other families in their cross examination of Ben. I think Jojo might go next week. Typically TB doesn't like being challenged by the families. TB will never say that a contestant's family is the reason for elimination, but I think it could be a factor when looking for ways to distinguish between finalists.

 

Caila would be your pick for F1 or the next B'ette? Because if you meant the next B'ette than you do realize that if JoJo goes home next week that would most likely eliminate Caila's chances.

 

I would rather see Caila as the next B'ette but your reasoning on JoJo's going home next week kind of worries me for Caila's chances because I don't see the TB shunning JoJo's family at all. They would be reality tv gold and would be assured to bring the drama and we all know how much this show loves drama. Based on Ben's reactions throughout the season though I believe he has a stronger connection to JoJo so I think she will be his second choice.

 

 

[saber5055]

Can anyone screen cap Ben's cankles? And put them next to Olivia's? That would be GOLD!

[ByTor]

TWoP ... Television Without Pity. Gone but not forgotten. Mods were strict, which is why I went through four identities before I stopped posting there altogether. After closing all threads for posting, the site stayed up about a year as a read-only, but now is gone altogether.

Going off topic again, but they are still around as read-only:

http://web.archive.org/web/20140329232050/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/forum/997-the-bachelor-general-gabbery/

[violetr]

 

Caila's dad just gave off a major creepy vibe and his worship of the Phillipino community was strange to me.

 

I don't know. I didn't think so. I know one guy (caucasian) who liked Asian women and married a Japanese woman in a very Japanese ceremony. Another guy (again, caucasian) was so attracted to black women (their skin is beautiful) that he divorced his (white) wife and married an African American. Both of those (white) men were drawn to other races. There is nothing wrong with that. People feel comfortable with what they are comfortable with. 

 

I think I might get where Canada was going with this (though I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth). Of course it's great to love and embrace other cultures and races, but sometimes people fetishize/exoticize people just because of their race (or what they perceive about their race), and that can get a little squicky. Ostensibly one falls for a person, not their melanin. It did seem to me that Caila's dad might be walking that fine line a bit, but I don't know him so I'd like to just assume he fell in love with Caila's mom as a person and then embraced all the joys of Filipino culture. 

 

Also, did Ben really say he'd never met a Filipino person before? Did they just pull him fully grown off the factory line right before Kaitlyn's season? I guess Warsaw, Indiana must just be really, really white. 

[Canada]

I think I might get where Canada was going with this (though I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth). Of course it's great to love and embrace other cultures and races, but sometimes people fetishize/exoticize people just because of their race (or what they perceive about their race), and that can get a little squicky. Ostensibly one falls for a person, not their melanin. It did seem to me that Caila's dad might be walking that fine line a bit, but I don't know him so I'd like to just assume he fell in love with Caila's mom as a person and then embraced all the joys of Filipino culture. 

 

Also, did Ben really say he'd never met a Filipino person before? Did they just pull him fully grown off the factory line right before Kaitlyn's season? I guess Warsaw, Indiana must just be really, really white. 

 

That was exactly what I meant.  I just find it strange when people only want to date one type of person.  I guess my primary concern is what kind of person someone is, not what colour they are, which doesn't really matter to me.

 

Speaking of really, really white... until recently, I would also have found it strange that Ben had never met a Philipino person before, since I lived in a large city full of people of all nationalities.  But I just moved to a smaller city and it is really white here!!  I never realised how white some places can be!  It's very strange.

Also jumping on the OT TWOP train... I used to hate the dreaded "boards on boards" warning!!  It drove me crazy.  You're not allowed to reply to or otherwise talk to another poster!!  Then what's the point of even having a forum?  Or insisting that you read all the other 15 pages of posts if you're not allowed to reply to any of them?  They were way too over-modded there.  I like it here!

[catrice2]

I'm sorry, I was in love with TWOP.  Now I actually have to watch tv!  I would spend hours reading about shows I didn't want to watch.  My friend and I are still in mourning. 

 

Hope Ben and the girls find what they are looking for. 

I'm sorry, I was in love with TWOP.  Now I actually have to watch tv!  I would spend hours reading about shows I didn't want to watch.  My friend and I are still in mourning. 

 

Hope Ben and the girls find what they are looking for. 

[Meowwww]

I figured it out.

Only daughters of wealthy people can go on this show. Myself at 23? No family money. Struggling. No silver spoon in my mouth.

I mean really, what "real person" can just up and quit/go on leave and join bachelor nation? No one like me.

[Padma]

Did anyone else see it, when he was barefoot at the beach?  Ben has cankles!

OMG! Think of the children!

Seriously, I could see Olivia with the most beautiful, perfect little kids and she'd be always crying  to Ben, "Why oh why did they have to have our cankles?"  She'd be shocked that some of us didn't even know that was a thing.

 

I mourned TWOP a long time too, even though I didn't miss my  banning over "boards on boards" and some other crazy rule. You can see the TWOPers here--we are so well trained! I appreciate that here (started by several of the people who started TWOP) there's moderation but never OTT. (Oh, and I most of all wanted to say...welcome! It's a nice place.) 

 

I think Ben's been a very good bachelor so far and I see such a genuine and sweet connection between Lauren B and him--including the tears. I was hoping he'd go like Ali and just say "I've got my F1, bye F2" but unless the editors are  badly messing with us, it seems he's genuinely "in love" with two women. Which I actually don't get. It's not that easy to fall in love, period. The idea of two people, in such a short time?  But maybe he means "love" Bachelor style as in "I'd like to sleep with and continue dating more than one of these women." I do agree that the final women seem very sweet and it's impressive, esp. at this stage, how they still seem to  get along so well.

[JenE4]

Welcome, former TWOPers! I was among the influx here as soon as TWOP shut down. I agree with Padma. You can totally tell who came from TWOP because we're all snarky about the shows but would NEVER insult a fellow poster in that way. Also as Padma said, the creators of this site were the original creators of TWOP, so Previously.tv does embody that same snarky, fun spirit. And, yes, we're "allowed" to get a little off topic and relate to real-life experiences, such as this, but if it goes on a little too long, we might be told to move on...which might happen any time now. The recap writers are just as hilarious and insightful. Although I do miss the 10-page reenactments and reactions to EVERYTHING that happened in the entire episode. To Catrice2's point, if you missed an episode, you'd be brought entirely up to speed in a way that was more entertaining than the show itself. These shorter recaps are more high-level impressions about the episode than a full summary, and sometimes you've had to have seen the episode first for it to make sense or to get the jokes. But, as I said, they're still hilarious!

[leighdear]

I figured it out.

Only daughters of wealthy people can go on this show. Myself at 23? No family money. Struggling. No silver spoon in my mouth.

I mean really, what "real person" can just up and quit/go on leave and join bachelor nation? No one like me.

Kaitlyn was a nobody from nowheresville with a strictly middle class family.  Little education, no real job and limited prospects.  And now she & ex-personal trainer Shawn are doing whatever things they do including a lot of drinking and selfie taking.  

 

You can live the dream too, Meowwww!!!   ;-)

[MsPH]

I loved the recaps over at TWOP! Took like half an hour to read, but I didn't mind at all, since they were so hilarious. Everything's so concise these days, I appreciated the wordiness. The modding was a tad overeager though. Had to tiptoe around hoping to not set of any land mines. I'm all for keeping people in line, but you can use words for that instead of the ban button. Props to the mods here for keeping their cool!

 

I also don't get Ben falling in love with two women at the same time. I just don't see him having the same connection with the other two that he has with Lauren. Hard to imagine him falling in love with either of them in one date, unless he's the type of guy who falls for any attractive woman who gives him the time of day. I guess two is better than none though, looking at you Juan Pablo, and you Brad Womack.  

[WhoAmIReally]

Kaitlyn was a nobody from nowheresville with a strictly middle class family.  Little education, no real job and limited prospects.  And now she & ex-personal trainer Shawn are doing whatever things they do including a lot of drinking and selfie taking.  

 

You can live the dream too, Meowwww!!!   ;-)

 

Desiree was from a very poor family, if I remember correctly. 

 

I am so torn.  I don't want any of these women to be the Bachelorette!  However, I have to admit that I pretty much hated all their Bachelorette picks and watched the shows anyway.  I never grew to like them, though.  I guess I would like to see Olivia (just for the mayhem) but I think they're going to pick Caila because they want to fill the "minority" slot.  I don't know how that'll work out because I can't imagine Jojo the Monkey Girl being in the F2 after he met her family.

[nlkm9]

I miss TWOP and never had an issue with moderators...if anything I find them a but crabbier here depending on the forum......I loved the recaps because if i missed a show i could count on every tiny detail....I enjoy these boards much more than the show. one of the things that made me laugh so hard over the years was after Bob guineys season (blob)  for years after the episode when Merediths grandma passed away, someone would randomly insert the phrase "mama?" during the comments. super funny bunch of folks there.

oh and Jo-Jos mom?? did she want her lips to be like that for real?? I couldnt look away but how awful. agreed the swig out of the wine bottle was up there with Lanny's mom from Merediths's season.

[WhoAmIReally]

oh and Jo-Jos mom?? did she want her lips to be like that for real?? I couldnt look away but how awful. agreed the swig out of the wine bottle was up there with Lanny's mom from Merediths's season.

I think her mother had a facelift (it look weirdly pulled up from the side), along with massive amounts of collagen in her lips.  She's likely had plenty of other fillers and Botox as well, but we'd have to see a picture to tell for sure.  She may think she looks good, but I think she's heading into Wildenstein territory.  She also looked like she had a boozer's body:  the emaciated chicken legs with the thick trunk.  And lots and lots of sun damage.  All in all, a delightful package.  She seemed nice, though.

 

P.S.  I know I'm going to Hell.

 

This is the only image I could find quickly of Ben's ankles. They look normal here, but maybe someone else can find a better one.

 

Edited February 27, 2016 by WhoAmIReally

[crgirl412]

I miss TWOP and never had an issue with moderators...if anything I find them a but crabbier here depending on the forum......I loved the recaps because if i missed a show i could count on every tiny detail....I enjoy these boards much more than the show. one of the things that made me laugh so hard over the years was after Bob guineys season (blob)  for years after the episode when Merediths grandma passed away, someone would randomly insert the phrase "mama?" during the comments. super funny bunch of folks there.

oh and Jo-Jos mom?? did she want her lips to be like that for real?? I couldnt look away but how awful. agreed the swig out of the wine bottle was up there with Lanny's mom from Merediths's season.

Crabbier here??  Where?  Who?  Clearly, Howard was never a Mod for any of your forums at TWOP.  Consider yourself one of the lucky ones.   

[chocolatine]

This is the only image I could find quickly of Ben's ankles. They look normal here, but maybe someone else can find a better one.

 

 

I think the tight man-pris he wore at the beginning of the date were just really unflattering and gave the illusion of cankles. (The auto-correct has really been fighting me on this sentence.)

[ilovetrashtv]

Crabbier here??  Where?  Who?  Clearly, Howard was never a Mod for any of your forums at TWOP.  Consider yourself one of the lucky ones.   

 

YES. Howard was such a jerk! (Sorry mods, off topic)

[ByTor]

I also don't get Ben falling in love with two women at the same time. I just don't see him having the same connection with the other two that he has with Lauren. Hard to imagine him falling in love with either of them in one date, unless he's the type of guy who falls for any attractive woman who gives him the time of day.

I think you hit the nail on the head with that bolded part. Remember when he was describing the women to his parents? It wasn't really about what thy are like as human beings, it was "(fill in the blank) is beautiful...is incredibly beautiful...is stunningly beautiful..."  I think Mr. "Hometown Values" is a hell of a lot more shallow than he wants us to think.

Edited February 27, 2016 by ByTor

[Bugs Meany]

I think Mr. "Hometown Values" is a hell of a lot more shallow than he wants us to think.

I'm torn on this one. Evidence against shallow: Jennifer was the most beautiful girl there and she got as much screen time as you or I or Sasquatch did. Evidence for shallow: He paid her no attention because she didn't have a single strand of blonde or light brown hair.

[leighdear]

I think you hit the nail on the head with that bolded part. Remember when he was describing the women to his parents? It wasn't really about what thy are like as human beings, it was "(fill in the blank) is beautiful...is incredibly beautiful...is stunningly beautiful..."  I think Mr. "Hometown Values" is a hell of a lot more shallow than he wants us to think.

Well he certainly tanked immediately with the vow to get to know the girls "emotionally before physically".  I still think he enjoyed the attention from Kaitlyn's season so much, he was dying to extend it.  To me, he's absolutely Chris Soules 2.0.  And I'd be shocked if he's not tapped for "Dancing with the Stars".  

[JudyObscure]

I did notice his blonde thing, only the minority girls are allowed dark hair and his favorite is the blondest of them all.

[Kloie]

I miss TWOP and never had an issue with moderators...if anything I find them a but crabbier here depending on the forum......I loved the recaps because if i missed a show i could count on every tiny detail....I enjoy these boards much more than the show. one of the things that made me laugh so hard over the years was after Bob guineys season (blob)  for years after the episode when Merediths grandma passed away, someone would randomly insert the phrase "mama?" during the comments. super funny bunch of folks there.

oh and Jo-Jos mom?? did she want her lips to be like that for real?? I couldnt look away but how awful. agreed the swig out of the wine bottle was up there with Lanny's mom from Merediths's season.

Sorry to correct - don't ban me - but I recall it was Meredith's "nana," and not her "mama."

 

On topic?  Still don't like Caila.  Too blah and too "trying to be like Tenley" for my taste. 

[Rainsong]

On topic?  Still don't like Caila.  Too blah and too "trying to be like Tenley" for my taste. 

 

You raise (perhaps unintentionally) an excellent point about Caila but also about the tunnel vision they impose on The Bachelor.

 

Caila first:  she's a hothouse flower, treated like a princess by that milquetoast father and when it isn't all going 100% her way the tears and the black clouds roll almost immediately (metaphor quota reached).

 

I don't trust people in general, but especially females, who always appear to be switched on and flood their social media with 'deep & meaningful' -- but actually derivative and simplistic -- poems, aphorisms, photos, etc.  Optimism is a state of mind, not a personal advertising campaign, and as someone here has probably already noted, all the relentlessly positive stuff is often masking insecurity or something much worse, even clinical.

 

Caila brings to mind that tiresome meme of 'If you can't handle me at my worst you don't deserve me at my best.'  It's supposed to be self-affirming but it in reality it merely signals you are on the road to bipolar if you're not there already.  And who would ever imagine another person 'deserves' them?  To call it narcissism hardly does it justice.

 

As for The Bachelor himself, Ben or other, he has a huge problem of sorts in that he only sees the made-up, blow-dried, dressed to the nines, pageant-girl version of the Bachelorettes, at least for a significant portion of the show.  To be fair, both The Bachelor and the producers try to get the girls in casual, sporty, natural, etc. mode but that doesn't preclude them from sitting at the makeup mirror for a stretch even when they're putting on shorts and a t-shirt.

 

In other words, his decision is made doubly difficult as he is dazzled by [bustlines] and teeth and chirpy-happy females fragile as bone china teacups.  It's worth noting that most Bachelors, upon encountering someone with a bit of mystery, who breathes between sentences, who isn't deathly afraid of silence or stillness and who exudes even an ounce of confidence (as opposed to a oooh-pick-me sales pitch) will gravitate to that person almost immediately and be as loyal as a dog - so loyal, in fact, that he often makes life very difficult for the producers in pushing the notion that the last 5, 4, 3, or even 2 Bachelorettes are all level pegging.

Edited February 27, 2016 by Rainsong

[lavenderpenguin]

I figured it out.

Only daughters of wealthy people can go on this show. Myself at 23? No family money. Struggling. No silver spoon in my mouth.

I mean really, what "real person" can just up and quit/go on leave and join bachelor nation? No one like me.

 

That's interesting, because I've always thought that mostly aimless, unemployed, or aspiring Z-list celebs go on this show -- mostly because of the reputation damage that follows around the participants. If you're jobless and want to be "famous," and fit the mold (attractive/young), why not take a couple months off from real life to go on a dating show? Even if they don't get paid, they still get national exposure + free travel/housing/food/fun experiences. 

 

Very few people with established careers (or even aspirations of a serious career), or those with enough money to travel/pursue fame/etc. on their own would go on this show. Even Sharleen, one of the few sophisticated, interesting contestants on the show, has mentioned how her participation has likely cost her auditions -- and she got a great edit!

 

I'm torn on this one. Evidence against shallow: Jennifer was the most beautiful girl there and she got as much screen time as you or I or Sasquatch did. Evidence for shallow: He paid her no attention because she didn't have a single strand of blonde or light brown hair.

 

I don't think the evidence against shallow is much evidence at all, because beauty is subjective. I find Jennifer beautiful, but I just don't think she's his type (as you mentioned, I definitely think that he's into blondes). Going off what I can ascertain about his preferences, I think he did keep two of the women he found the most attractive from the get go for very long (Lauren B. and Amanda). Olivia was in the mix, but proved to just be a little too awkward. If Olivia had kept her cool and hadn't starting acting weird/getting into drama with the girls, I think she would've been in the F3. 

 

Caila brings to mind that tiresome meme of 'If you can't handle me at my worst you don't deserve me at my best.'  It's supposed to be self-affirming but it in reality it merely signals you are on the road to bipolar if you're not there already.  And who would ever imagine another person 'deserves' them?  To call it narcissism hardly does it justice.

 

As for The Bachelor himself, Ben or other, he has a huge problem of sorts in that he only sees the made-up, blow-dried, dressed to the nines, pageant-girl version of the Bachelorettes, at least for a significant portion of the show.  To be fair, both The Bachelor and the producers try to get the girls in casual, sporty, natural, etc. mode but that doesn't preclude them from sitting at the makeup mirror for a stretch even when they're putting on shorts and a t-shirt.

 

In other words, his decision is made doubly difficult as he is dazzled by [bustlines] and teeth and chirpy-happy females fragile as bone china teacups.  It's worth noting that most Bachelors, upon encountering someone with a bit of mystery, who breathes between sentences, who isn't deathly afraid of silence or stillness and who exudes even an ounce of confidence (as opposed to a oooh-pick-me sales pitch) will gravitate to that person almost immediately and be as loyal as a dog - so loyal, in fact, that he often makes life very difficult for the producers in pushing the notion that the last 5, 4, 3, or even 2 Bachelorettes are all level pegging.

 

I don't really understand how Caila reminds you of that meme, mostly because we haven't seen her at the worst, as far as I can tell...? I also think most people misunderstand the idea of that meme, and take it too literally. I think the point is that all of us have good, bad, and just plain ugly sides of our personalities. If the person you're with can't handle you at your worst, then you probably shouldn't be with them -- but it must be mutual. When I love someone, I love them regardless -- even if I don't particularly like them when they're irrational/angry/insensitive/etc. (obviously, this excludes situations involving abuse or other forms of serious disrespect/dysfunction within a relationship). 

Edited February 27, 2016 by lavenderpenguin

[yorklee2]

 

Caila first:  she's a hothouse flower, treated like a princess by that milquetoast father and when it isn't all going 100% her way the tears and the black clouds roll almost immediately (metaphor quota reached).

Sorry but in Caila's defense I've never saw one example of her crying and acting out when things didn't go her way. There was that one instance early on when as she was talking to JoJo she cried realizing how difficult the competition was going to be but I would hardly call that not getting her way. If anything I think she's been very guarded with her feelings. Her calling her parents "mommy and daddy" gave me pause but I think she's just very close to her parents and that's what's she's comfortable calling them. I think the fact that she cried talking to them was because she felt totally comfortable letting her guard down with them. She gets along well with the other ladies (and remember she wouldn't rat out the women who were upset with her getting the second 1 on 1 date in the Bahamas) and has showed poise and graciousness in my opinion. Now she may totally change if she were to be the B'ette but then again she may be pleasantly surprising. She at least deserves the spot as much or more so than JoJo.

Edited February 28, 2016 by yorklee2

[violet and green]

Caila first:  she's a hothouse flower, treated like a princess by that milquetoast father and when it isn't all going 100% her way the tears and the black clouds roll almost immediately (metaphor quota reached).

 

 

Speaking as a hot-house flower myself, I can't see any of this in Caila. She has a nice supportive father and...  That's about it. I've seen no dramatics, tantrums, or even any whispy signs of incoming grey clouds.

 

And I don't understand how anyone can be 'on the road to bipolar' - given it is a mental illness, generally with some sort of genetic component, and at most could be brought on by an unfortunate reaction to some prescribed drug interaction.

 

Mind you, I don't understand 'memes' either. I think she's pasting on the happy front, as did/does Catherine on Sean's season at times, but that's hardly a crime. I also see no correlation between something that Caila hasn't to my knowledge stated and incipient narcissism, or even between that corny quote and narcissism.

 

Caila brings to mind that tiresome meme of 'If you can't handle me at my worst you don't deserve me at my best.'  It's supposed to be self-affirming but it in reality it merely signals you are on the road to bipolar if you're not there already.  And who would ever imagine another person 'deserves' them?  To call it narcissism hardly does it justice.

 

[ByTor]

I'm torn on this one. Evidence against shallow: Jennifer was the most beautiful girl there and she got as much screen time as you or I or Sasquatch did. Evidence for shallow: He paid her no attention because she didn't have a single strand of blonde or light brown hair.

What some find beautiful, others don't. I know I'm speaking as a straight female, but I thought Jennifer was cute but hardly the most beautiful there (in my opinion that title would go to Olivia or Lace).  So maybe he agrees with me regarding Jennifer's looks, and if this is the case, I vote for shallow :)

[hyacinth]

 Did any of you watch Saturday Night Live last night?  There was a sketch called "Bland Man."  They made fun of Ben, and the girls.   It's on Hulu, but you may need a subscription to watch. 

Edited February 28, 2016 by hyacinth

[ByTor]

This?

[Bugs Meany]

Evidence against shallow: Jennifer was the most beautiful girl there and she got as much screen time as you or I or Sasquatch did. Evidence for shallow: He paid her no attention because she didn't have a single strand of blonde or light brown hair.

I don't think the evidence against shallow is much evidence at all, because beauty is subjective... Going off what I can ascertain about his preferences, I think he did keep two of the women he found the most attractive from the get go for very long (Lauren B. and Amanda).

Not to me! I'm an aesthetic absolutist and freely judge based on taste. I lost (what was left of) my respect for Ben when he called Amanda "astonishingly beautiful."

[ByTor]

^^^ I'm a little confused by this statement.   You freely judge based on taste, which I don't deny all of us do, but what you are talking about is your taste, which isn't necessarily the same as anybody else's (including Ben's).  Just because you don't find Amanda "astonishingly beautiful" (I don't either, for the record) doesn't mean that nobody else can.

Edited February 28, 2016 by ByTor

[hyacinth]

Yes!  Thanks, byTor, that's the SNL from last night!   So funny.  The show really is a bizarre concept, which is why I love to watch it.  Who would put up with a man dating so many others in real life?  I'm always surprised the "winner" doesn't seem more upset after watching how her new fiancee acted with the other finalists.  (Though apparently Emily was none too pleased after watching Brad. I think he said the same stuff to a couple of the women, like almost word for word.  Is he married yet? I thought he seemed... gruff.)   

Edited February 28, 2016 by hyacinth

[Bugs Meany]

^^^ I'm a little confused by this statement.   You freely judge based on taste, which I don't deny all of us do, but what you are talking about is your taste, which isn't necessarily the same as anybody else's (including Ben's).  Just because you don't find Amanda "astonishingly beautiful" (I don't either, for the record) doesn't mean that nobody else can.

 

I freely judge others for their taste. I don't expect that to sound very endearing ;-)

[ByTor]

I freely judge others for their taste. I don't expect that to sound very endearing ;-)

Gotcha!  I mean, it's not as if I've ever done anything like that :)

Yes!  Thanks, byTor, that's the SNL from last night!   So funny. 

Apologies for going off topic, but that scene of the woman confessing to having all those kids was a riot!

[NikSac]

I think the comments on this show are such a confirmation of the "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" phrase. I rarely think any of the people cast are "ugly" (physically anyway) but I am always surprised by comments about which women are gorgeous and which ones not so much. Like Britt from last year, I truly did not get why almost everyone was so gaga over her looks. This time around I haven't thought Ben kept the prettiest of the women and it has even made me like him more. I don't think any of them are bad looking though. Not even close.

[MakeMeLaugh]

Not to mention the camera loves some people and not others. Some of these women are surely more photogenic than others, and Ben is not looking at them on camera. Amanda may be the most beautiful woman up close in real life by anyone's standards but may not photograph as well as someone else. Personally I think they were all adorable and Ben got some of the best looking women this show ever had, so I don't think he's bestowing roses based on cuteness.