S02.E14: Escape From Earth-2

[TobinAlbers]

Barry 2's 'Wait, he got frisky with you?' Cracked me up because Barry 2 is obviously adorable and geeky and a marshmallow and yet because we know Iris strips upon entering their home, the West-Allens must have a very interesting sex life.

Something I really liked about Barry and Iris 2 was that he was totally okay with her being the 'alpha' and she was okay with his being a 'beta'. She never talked down to him, showed respect for his strengths, and was never dismissive of his concern even when he was bordering on grating. She was patient and understanding but firm. He wasn't possessive of her or condescending towards her about her capabilities and trying to prove himself as her manly protector. He was intent on proving himself as her worthy partner. Barry 2 always adamantly said that he wouldn't leave her side, as in we're in this together, not me before you or you before me. When Barry 2 made his speech to Barry 1, not only did you see why this Iris was with him, you saw her pride and love for him written all over her face. Their relationship just worked and darn if I would love to revisit them in a few years with Barry 2 wrangling little Joey and/or Johanna West-Allen to school as Iris 2 heads to work at the Atlantis PD.

Edited February 17, 2016 by TobinAlbers

[Trini]

I almost forgot! I loved seeing the Dr. Light Wanted poster in E2 Barry's lab! I couldn't make out any of the others, but I recognized Dr. Light!

 

I think I saw one for Deathstorm.

[snarktini]

*No one in the rescue team paid one freakin' iota of notice to a man in an iron freaking mask nor tried to figure out how to free him during the Barry-on-Barry pep talk!  I can't totally fault them for being scared out of their minds because Zoom makes even John Shaft and Sam Jackson take a mo and go "Hm." It was the everyone looking on all gooey-eyed over E2 Barry giving a 'don't give up' speech to E1 Barry. That was the priority, right? Not getting everyone Zoom deemed important enough to imprison away from the psycho.

6. Yes, everyone, let's all stand around and listen to Earth-2 Barry's little speech when a) there's another prisoner right behind you who might be able to provide useful information, given pen and paper and/or, I don't know, let out of his cage, and b) you know Zoom is on the way. 

 

This! It was like they didn't even notice he was there. Since pretty much only Barry could free himself, you'd think the others could have turned their attention to the other guy who needed their help.

[Ruby25]

Barry 2's 'Wait, he got frisky with you?' Cracked me up because Barry 2 is obviously adorable and geeky and a marshmallow and yet because we know Iris strips upon entering their home, the West-Allens must have a very interesting sex life.

 

 

Yeah, I thought the same thing, lol. She strips down and slams him against the wall at work, so it appears they're quite hot and heavy. I'd like to see more of them, but I wonder if that's it, at least for this season.

Edited February 17, 2016 by Ruby25

[themadman]

Yo Flash writers, do you think that by season 6, Barry will be able to use his powers properly without needing a pep talk each time?

[zannej]

Just watched this one and found it to be interesting. There were some very good parts but also some facepalm moments.

 

Loved E2 Barry and Iris.

 

I didn't mind Jesse having lost hope after what she'd been through and I didn't think it made her a dumbass if she didn't know about the WW2 code. It's one thing to have intelligence and another to have knowledge. She might not have been aware of the code. And as for her pissing on their attempts, I think part of it was that if she accepted that there was a way to get out then it meant maybe she hadn't tried hard enough and she was the failure-- plus I think she genuinely felt abandoned and doomed. Who knows what Zoom did to her all that time. She apparently wasn't allowed to bathe and probably felt horrible. As for the whole bit of leaving her life behind, despite the time crunch and situation, that was a valid concern. I think she is supposed to be a teenager, but I'm not certain. My guess is she's supposed to be around 16 or 17. She's been through a lot the last few months so being too emotional to think critically can be expected.

 

I was thinking when I saw the hair that maybe the guy in the mask was Eddie Thawne and he was trying to tell them that Jay was secretly working for Zoom. Or maybe he was trying to tell them that he was Jay. Maybe Jay has an identical twin brother that was separated at birth. Or maybe the guy in the cell was Jay's twin brother and is being held there as leverage by Zoom.

 

It just seems so convenient that the portal "broke" right after they went through and Jay fixed it, but then it conveniently "broke" again after Jay's "nap". Jay gets the serum that speeds him up and cures him and then is "sleeping" when they need him and suddenly he has a plan to fix the portal again but then stands right in front of it and predictably, got nabbed by Zoom. I think he's probably alive and Zoom planned to make it look like he was killing Jay. It's possible that Jay was just there spying for Zoom and could have been relaying info back to Zoom.

 

Here's something I'm wondering: Harry had that BFG (Big Fucking Gun) and he didn't try to blast open Barry's cell with it. He didn't try to blast the chain on Jesse's wrist with the gun. Nor did he try to blast Zoom when Killer Frost was distracting Zoom. Why not? If I'd been him, I would have been blasting the hell out of Zoom with that thing. The only reason I could think of for him to NOT do that is if it was out of juice.

 

I agree with people that it was retarded that they didn't try to rescue the guy in the mask. Why couldn't Barry vibrate himself through, grab the guy, and vibrate back out instead of standing there debating it?

 

I did think all characters were suitably freaked out by Zoom looking for Harrision and Zoom showing up, etc. The scene in the panic room was well-done. Loved how E2 Barry was freaking the hell out and Cisco had to cover his mouth.

 

Another thing I thought of-- what happened to the forcefield stuff that Cisco developed to contain Reverse Flash in the "trap" that was set for him? It apparently would have worked if it hadn't been a hologram inside. There are so many ways I can think of for them to capture Zoom that they didn't try.

 

Btw, I get that the reason they didn't go with the Reverb glasses was because it would take some tinkering and they didn't have time for tinkering (although, they apparently had time for pep talks). :P

 

I still very much enjoyed this episode and was glad to see that Jesse and Harrison both survived and made it back to E1.

 

On a final thought: What if the location of Zoom's lair on E2 is the equivalent to Granite Peaks National Park on E1?

[AudienceofOne]

So I kind of hated last week's episode. Mostly because this show seems to only know how do "plot through stupid" and if Barry isn't being a dumbass then we'd have no show. This was a much better episode. And Barry used his brains! Well, only a little. But it was an important little.

 

E2 Barry is still the sexiest thing since Daniel Jackson.

 

I'll be in my bunk.

[ottoDbusdriver]

6. Ye television gods, Flash. I realize you have set problems, but you need a better reason for having a duplicate secret time travel braille room than "we couldn't afford another set." I guess I should be relieved that the hospital set didn't make another appearance.

 

This is especially perplexing since the Time Vault was a creation by Eobard Thawne on E1.  If Eobard never existed on E2, where did the tech knowledge come from to build it on Earth 2 ?

[TwistedandBored]

Well, they did say, the Jay from our Earth is named Hunter Zolomon and that he died. So, I started to get suspicious when they said that and showed us his grave. Yeah right. 

 

 

Also, the ultimate mind LOL was having Barry give himself a pep-talk in order to do his running thing. Seriously, I laughed my ass off when E-2 Barry pep-talk was all about himself and how if he can do it then by golly so can E-1 Barry/The Flash. 

[cambridgeguy]

 

I think she is supposed to be a teenager, but I'm not certain. My guess is she's supposed to be around 16 or 17. She's been through a lot the last few months so being too emotional to think critically can be expected.

She was kidnapped from her college so unless she skipped a few grades she'll be at least 18.  Hopefully she won't be a brat moving forward.

 

The way that it was shown it looked like Jay whisked 3 people out of that giant building before it collapsed.  As last minute rescues go that's actually pretty lame.

 

 

Well, they did say, the Jay from our Earth is named Hunter Zolomon and that he died.

Hunter's still alive - Jay and Kaitlin saw him sitting on a bench. 

 

Any version of Jay being Zoom is still a bit of a letdown since it would come across as a watered down version of what happened last season.

[marketdoctor]

My hypothesis (it's not enough evidence for a theory) is that Iron Mask is RealJayGarrick, and the Jay we've seen is Eobard Thawne.  "Losing his powers" was his excuse to get Velocity 6, and higher versions are a bonus.

 

That would explain why Wells has a time vault, the blonde hair on the back of the guy's head, his cellular decomposition, and everything shady/questionable the Jay Garrick we've seen has done.  It raises some other questions (is he working with or against Zoom?  How does he really feel about Caitlyn?) 

 

Note that the Jay we've seen being a clone and Earth 2 Dr. Wells being Earth 2 Eobard Thawne also fits most of the evidence, so it could go any of a number of ways.  The possibilities are what make this show interesting.

[themadman]

Didn't they have a bit in the first episode of this season about adding security to Star Labs so people couldn't just waltz in there? And yet Geomancer just walks in casually. 

[benteen]

One thing I didn't like was that Iris should have been pissed off at Earth-1 Barry and his friends.  It was their incursion and particularly Earth-1 Barry's plan that got her father killed.  At least some acknowledgement of that, please!  But Barry always gets to escape this kind of blame.

[bettername2come]

She was kidnapped from her college so unless she skipped a few grades she'll be at least 18.  Hopefully she won't be a brat moving forward

They said earlier she graduated high school at 15, so she's probably under 18.

[phoenics]

I think Jesse/Wally is coming - if for nothing more than both of them are rebelling teens who will likely get into massive trouble together. I really disliked Jesse after her tantrum at the end though - bish - Zoom will KILL you if you stay! What is WRONG with you?!

Harry had awesome security alerts at HIS lab - maybe he will finally upgrade Star Labs. The ease with which villains just stroll in is inexcusable.

[KirkB]

Okay, I want to start with Geomancer. No, wait, he's too boring to bother with. Instead, I'd rather talk about Star Labs. I know we like to joke about them not having any security but this? This was ridiculous even by their standards. Wells, either Wells, could do it because he built Star Labs and would probably know the ins and outs and security better than anyone. Last year, when Iris or Cold would wander in it was because the gang might have been legitimately distracted or because Thawne wanted it to happen for one reason or another. But now, how does Geomancer even know about the place (unless it's a well known secret among the villains that the Flash works out of Star Labs) let alone stroll in like he's taking a tour? No locks, no alarms, no cameras. The only thing Barry and his people have going for them is that his villains like to talk, a lot, and not just attack.

 

Speaking of villains, Zoom. I still can't work out the guy's motivation. I know he wants to be faster (which is weird since he's already the fastest by far) but he's doing it in a roundabout way. I thought initially he stole Jay's speed and added it to his own. Now, it looks like he needs help to do that. With Reverse Flash I knew what he was doing and why. He needed to keep Barry alive and make him faster (after making him the Flash, his worst enemy, in the first place) in order to go home. Zoom seems to just wants to be the fastest guy around, but he already is.

 

I really have to wonder, how was Jay, who seems to be a pretty weak willed and not all that fast (since he needed the Velocity), ever able to operate as the Flash on a world where Zoom existed? How did Zoom not capture or kill him immediately? Unless he did and that's who is locked up in the Iron Mask, but then who is the guy making out with Caitlin? A tool to help him get close to Barry? Then what did he need Wells for? And I would say poor Jay, but what about that portal? For dramatic purposes it stayed open an awful long time, since the others just popped closed. And was Zoom just jamming his fist through, risking getting his arm cut off in the process, on the off chance someone was standing there? Or could he somehow 'see' Jay standing there?

 

Nothing Jesse said or did bothered me. A teenage girl, locked up by a psychopath who probably taunted or tortured her daily, alone for months. It's a bit miraculous she was even still standing. I would have been a blubbering heap on the floor.

[Lady Calypso]

Nothing Jesse said or did bothered me. A teenage girl, locked up by a psychopath who probably taunted or tortured her daily, alone for months. It's a bit miraculous she was even still standing. I would have been a blubbering heap on the floor.

 

The problem was that she wasn't exactly a blubbering heap. When Harry told his daughter that she had to leave, she went all 'but WHYYYYY'. She didn't want to leave her life, even though, as her father pointed out, her life was over the moment their family became a blip on Zoom's radar. She CAN'T stay and live her life. She should know that better than anyone. I expected her to be like 'yes, I want to get far away from Zoom'. Except she didn't do that. I'll give her another chance next episode, but that particular line annoyed me.

[athelyna]

With the cellular degeneration stuff, I was waiting for the reveal that the Jay who came to Earth-1 is a clone created by Zoom as a sleeper agent.  It seems like clones always have issues with cellular degeneration in sci-fi.  Jay seemed genuinely happy about saving all those people, so my guess was that Zoom found a way to transfer the real Jay's memories and had subliminal programming embedded, and put the real Jay in the mask.  But on this show with all the time travel stuff as well it's entirely possible that the man in the mask isn't the real Jay but has something to do with the Thawnes.  

 

Or Jay had some sort of accident with the speed force that split him into 3 parts - Zoom, powerless, kind of a loser Jay on Earth-1, and man in the mask Jay.

[DearEvette]

The problem was that she wasn't exactly a blubbering heap. When Harry told his daughter that she had to leave, she went all 'but WHYYYYY'. She didn't want to leave her life, even though, as her father pointed out, her life was over the moment their family became a blip on Zoom's radar. She CAN'T stay and live her life. She should know that better than anyone. I expected her to be like 'yes, I want to get far away from Zoom'. Except she didn't do that. I'll give her another chance next episode, but that particular line annoyed me.

 

Yeah, i think that is the problem so many people are having with her reaction.  Being a self centered teen is one thing.  Being butt dumb is another.  This is a master criminal who can literally Zoom into places and snatch you up.  She was the method by which he was controlling her father.  What did she think would happen after they escaped from his lair?  That the rest of their town was safe?  That she could go back to school (where he snatched her from in the first place)  and hang out with her friends?   How could being held prisoner all that time not have hipped this girl to the fact that she was in danger for the rest of her life while Zoom was still around?

[GHScorpiosRule]

I LOVED this episode! And I love Earth 2 Barry MORE!

 

I know there were a lot of good quotes, but Barry's "Wait, was he getting FRISKY with you?" to Iris, made me HOWL, and wonder what era he's from, because the only time I've ever heard "frisky" was on Happy Days when Howard Cunningham would get romantic with Merriam Cunningham, and she would tease him about getting "frisky" with her!

 

And sorry, but Zoom just fucking bores me. Same speech, Every.single.time. he appears to our team. I'm going to steal your speed. I'm going to kill you (Jessie) in front of your father! You can't beat me! You will wish you were dead! Blah, blah, blah...zzzzzzzz

 

Before he was "killed" or pierced or whatever, I really thought Jay was Zoom, because he was conveeeeeeniently not around when Geomancer was Earthquaking STAR Labs.  And his exuse was really lame too.

 

And I'm really not a fan of the latest trend this season of the "after buzz" or whatever show online that "explains" what happened on the episode.

[Potanical Pardon]

The simplest explanation that I can think of is that MITIM is real Earth-2 Jay. The guy who says he's E-2-Jay who is stumbly and sleepy all the time is a liar. He tells Caitlyn that his E-1 counterpart is Hunter Zolomon but has a different name because he was adopted. Assuming E2 is a liar, than he's lying about this too; I'm saying it's simpler to keep E-1 Hunter Zolomon a counterpart to a E-2 Hunter Zolomon...so my guess right now is that E-2 "Jay" is really E-2 Hunter Zolomon.
 
As for Zoom and E-2 "Jay" being off and almost never being in the same place at the same time or both preoccupied with different scenes simultaneously, I'm not sure if they're the same person, though that was my thought at the beginning of the season. They could still be, but if so, even in this episode Zoom is busy battling the good guys while "Jay" is with the E1 crew fixing and staring at the speed cannon. They could be different people. Or they could be the same person, but it would have to be a new speed ability like being so fast as to create after-images like you see in photography with shutter speeds. And these after-images are like a duplicating power, though not exactly, so they could independently do things, while really sharing the same hive mind, since they're really more one guy instead of twins, clones or legitimate duplicates.
 

And I'm really not a fan of the latest trend this season of the "after buzz" or whatever show online that "explains" what happened on the episode.

Try the Collider Video Recap instead. Kind-of-sort-of the same Maria Menudos circle of friends, sets, etc. but not under that umbrella/production. Completely separate entity that uses similar sets and shares talent and show formats, but the quality of discussion/deliberation for most of their recap shows is definitely superior.

Edited February 17, 2016 by Potanical Pardon

[jmonique]

And sorry, but Zoom just fucking bores me. Same speech, Every.single.time. he appears to our team. I'm going to steal your speed. I'm going to kill you (Jessie) in front of your father! You can't beat me! You will wish you were dead! Blah, blah, blah...zzzzzzzz

 

That's my problem with it. Yes, I know Zoom is a badass who wants all the speediest speed that ever sped. He'll beat the ever-loving daylights out of Barry, again and again. Sure. Fine. Let's move the ball forward now, show. We're about to be 15 episodes into the season, and I'm starting to get annoyed. Let's advance SOME plot, please.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Try the Collider Video Recap instead. Kind-of-sort-of the same Maria Menudos circle of friends, sets, etc. but not under that umbrella/production. Completely separate entity that uses similar sets and shares talent and show formats, but the quality of discussion/deliberation for most of their recap shows is definitely superior.

 

You misunderstood. I don't care about any of that. What they put in the episode should be clear, unless it's a mystery, like who is Zoom? I don't think I have to go to recaps or after shows, for them to tell me what the meaning of the episode was, or point out what, if any, easter eggs were in said episode. I might as well not watch the episode and just the after show, to hear them hype it. And it's the same EXACT dialogue in each promo every week: "discuss ALL the EASTER EGGS in this episode!" 

 

Me: Whatever and no thanks.

[Cthulhudrew]

Something I was really confused by in this episode: Why did Barry pop out of the portal into Earth 2 rather than Earth 1? The way it was shot they made it look like Zoom had beat him to Earth 1, but then you realize that no-one else is there, and Barry/Wells jump back into the portal and return to Earth 1. Was this just confusing editing or was there a reason for it?

 

I thought it was odd, too. I assume that Barry had to run Jesse and Cisco back through the portal to E-1 like he did with Cisco and Wells the first time (even though for some reason we didn't see him pop back into E1 with them), and then went back for Wells, because he couldn't carry both. But it feels like there was probably a dropped scene perhaps where Wells heroically offered to stay behind to make sure Cisco and Jesse were safe first.

 

Yeah, I thought the same thing, lol. She strips down and slams him against the wall at work, so it appears they're quite hot and heavy. I'd like to see more of them, but I wonder if that's it, at least for this season.

 

E2 Barry is a sub, obviously. lol

 

Another thing that struck me about this episode: is this the first time they've sent a meta off to Iron Heights instead of locking them in Star Labs? (It occurs to me it isn't, but I'm not certain). 

 

Does this mean they're going to stop treating these prisoners illegally for once and we won't have to speculate how they feed/clothe/entertain/allow them bathroom breaks?

 

As to the Zoom mystery, I'll be pretty disappointed if it turns out to be Jay (or some version thereof). On the one hand, it makes an interesting parallel to last year's reveal, as others have noted, it feels like a much watered down version of it. We've barely seen enough of Jay (whichever one he is) this season to really have much in the way of empathy for the character or the drama of the reveal.

 

It doesn't really seem to fit, either. I'm convinced after last night that the Man in the Iron Mask is Jay, and presumably the real E-2 Jay. Whomever this other E-2 Jay is that we've seen all season, we know for a fact that he has some kind of health issues (cellular degeneration because he's a clone?) because Caitlin's run all kinds of tests on him. That doesn't seem to mesh with him being Zoom. Possibly three Zooms, then, or hopefully E-2 Zoom is someone else entirely (like E-2 Henry Allen).

Edited February 17, 2016 by Cthulhudrew

[Primetimer]

It's a cool place and all, but that Zoom sitch is a problem.

Read the story

[benteen]

Yeah, i think that is the problem so many people are having with her reaction.  Being a self centered teen is one thing.  Being butt dumb is another.  This is a master criminal who can literally Zoom into places and snatch you up.  She was the method by which he was controlling her father.  What did she think would happen after they escaped from his lair?  That the rest of their town was safe?  That she could go back to school (where he snatched her from in the first place)  and hang out with her friends?   How could being held prisoner all that time not have hipped this girl to the fact that she was in danger for the rest of her life while Zoom was still around?

 

Yeah, this annoyed me too.  She was held for months by Zoom, terrorized and threatened with death.  She was moments away from finally getting killed and when she finally gets free, his first thought it NOT to put as much distance as she can between her and Zoom?  Really?  After she finally escapes, she treats Zoom's threat as seriously as she would a teenager threatening to toilet paper her house during Halloween.  That doesn't make any sense.

 

At the very least, get as far away as you can and then when you're safe, worry about what you're going to do next.

 

Quite frankly, I don't buy Earth-2 Barry and Iris still being alive after the end of that episode.  Zoom was detected by security IMMEDIATELY after Barry-1 said good-bye to them.  Zoom's not just going to do a quick trip around the building and kill them?  Not buying that either.

Edited February 17, 2016 by benteen

[Trini]

I didn't have a problem with the introduction of Iris' new editor. He's allowed to be a skeptic (and the Flash has been MIA), and plus I have no worries about him being a love interest, so he's fine by me.

[Actionmage]

A teenage girl, locked up by a psychopath who probably taunted or tortured her daily, alone for months.

 

This episode noted that Harry had "disappeared" for 4 months, as of this episode. Jesse could have been taken somewhere around one or two months before that. Still, she wasn't alone due to The Man in the Iron Mask being on Jesse's last nerve with his tapping. ( I mean, why bother trying to communicate with someone when you are prisoners together.) He had been there long enough for her to realize he never tapped anything longer than five times/units.

 

...and I didn't think it made her a dumbass if she didn't know about the WW2 code. It's one thing to have intelligence and another to have knowledge. She might not have been aware of the code.

 

No, Jesse's not a dumbass if she doesn't happen to know something. Harry doesn't seem the exaggerated praise kind of guy some parents can be; he has consistently said that Jesse is smarter than he is. I believe it was mostly her holding the Idiot Ball so Barry could show off his code knowledge and exposition "for the kids at home."  Jesse taking a moment to brat about leaving everything is annoying, but understandable, except she just was saved from mostly certain death by someone who just decided to irk the guy trying to kill Jesse.  I would like to think I would be more practical in the 'we're leaving the planet" situation, even at Jesse's age, whatever it might be.

[Tarasme]

This was fun, but I still had a hard time paying attention during the ridiculous earthquake villain content; Geomancer dude, you can decimate cities, try to turn down the cheese a little.

 

Everyone in the forum here has had such great comments about the characterizations in the ep. For me, everyone shined.

 

Hero in the Iron Mask/ Jay/ Zoom/ Hunter Zolomon-- I don't know how tPtB are going to make the Jay we've seen all season be knowingly malicious.

IIRC, Jay and Harry have history. So, unless Real!Jay has been inside the mask for a shocking length of time and the Jay drugging around E1 is a doppleganger or a fabulous android (Robot!Jay would explain a lot of lackluster performance), I don't see how they're going to work it out. Unless Real!Jay has been incarcerated for the entire length of the feud, Harry would have known someone trying to pass himself off as JG.

 

If it's a doppleganger/ clone Jay, then I hope it's on the clueless side rather than being a conspirator. If it's some other character in the mask and Jay is a willing co-conspirator and/or is Zoom,... I don't know.

 

Is it common in other aspects of the Flash continuum for the prime villain's context to be recycled like they appear to be recycling S1- character pretending to be someone he's not- primarily someone in a mentor position?

Edited February 17, 2016 by Tarasme

[johntfs]

I was okay with Jesse's reluctance to leave at the end.  It wasn't really rational, but people often aren't rational.  In Jesse's headspace the story of her capture by Zoom ended with her rescue and getting to restart her life.  Suddenly that's not true and she's going to be exiled to some alienish world.  It's okay that she has a negative emotional reaction to that.  It's also okay that she spends a couple of episode being kind of resentful that this had to happen.  If she's still mopey and sullen into next season, that's a little too much, but figure for a little bit of time it's okay that she's not really okay with all this. 

[benteen]

Geomancer was trying his best to imitate Captain Cold and failed miserably.

 

Just how tired was Jay from the V9?  How could he not have been woken up when Geomancer was setting off earthquakes in the building he was CURRENTLY IN.

[Latverian Diplomat]

Jay's a dumbass.  Yes, by all means stand right in front of the breach while you know Zoom is coming.  Although it does add to the possibility there's more going on between Jay and Zoom, than Jay lets on.  Like it's a fake Jay, and the real Jay is in the cage.  The man in the mask did get pissed when Barry talked about Jay, and there was a brief look at his hair.  Also Jay kind of screwed up in this episode before that, with not being there when Caitlin and Iris were being attacked.

 

 

Mask guy/fake Jay is really Zoom stuff aside (and I agree the hints are there, whether it's a red herring or not we don't know yet).

 

The way that Jay grabbed by Zoom thing was set up was another example of how this show doesn't trust it's audience. They could have set it up so that what Jay was doing to keep the portal stable let Zoom grab him then. Instead, we have the fake portal problem that doesn't mean anything followed by Jay walking back over to the portal just to get grabbed. It's like they had an idea, and then broke it down into two separate parts because they thought it was too complicated fo the audience to follow. Trust us a little, guys. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

This is more of a 'bah, humbug!' nitpick than anything, but while the "frisky" & "words with him" lines were humorous, I didn't like how the script had E2!Iris basically just nod yes to the question.  Unless there was off-screen stuff we weren't clued in on, all the stuff we did see was Iris getting frisky with E1!Barry;

-  Slamming him against the wall - at work, no less - for some aggressive tonsil hockey and handsy explorations, which Barry stopped almost immediately

-  Stripping down to her bra right as soon as they walked in the front door at home

-  Maybe a couple other small 'moments' I'm not recalling right now?

 

E1!Barry didn't initiate anything in any of those instances, and didn't let them progress to the point of total indecency or take advantage of the situation for his own sake.  Writers could have at least had E2!Iris say nothing that ever went beyond a kiss ever really happened.  Cisco now (might) have the (possible) lingering doubt that 'his' Barry got it on with E2!Iris (or at least tried) just because had a chance with any Iris. 

[Lady Calypso]

Mask guy/fake Jay is really Zoom stuff aside (and I agree the hints are there, whether it's a red herring or not we don't know yet).

 

The way that Jay grabbed by Zoom thing was set up was another example of how this show doesn't trust it's audience. They could have set it up so that what Jay was doing to keep the portal stable let Zoom grab him then. Instead, we have the fake portal problem that doesn't mean anything followed by Jay walking back over to the portal just to get grabbed. It's like they had an idea, and then broke it down into two separate parts because they thought it was too complicated fo the audience to follow. Trust us a little, guys. 

 

More than that, I think their end goal was to get: 'yay, we did it! We closed the breach against Zoom! He's gone! See? We can celebr- oh wait, never mind, Jay's gotten grabbed by Zoom and the breach is closed'.

[Ruby25]

This is more of a 'bah, humbug!' nitpick than anything, but while the "frisky" & "words with him" lines were humorous, I didn't like how the script had E2!Iris basically just nod yes to the question.  Unless there was off-screen stuff we weren't clued in on, all the stuff we did see was Iris getting frisky with E1!Barry;

-  Slamming him against the wall - at work, no less - for some aggressive tonsil hockey and handsy explorations, which Barry stopped almost immediately

-  Stripping down to her bra right as soon as they walked in the front door at home

-  Maybe a couple other small 'moments' I'm not recalling right now?

 

E1!Barry didn't initiate anything in any of those instances, and didn't let them progress to the point of total indecency or take advantage of the situation for his own sake.  Writers could have at least had E2!Iris say nothing that ever went beyond a kiss ever really happened.  Cisco now (might) have the (possible) lingering doubt that 'his' Barry got it on with E2!Iris (or at least tried) just because had a chance with any Iris. 

 

Well, maybe she now sees it that way because he didn't say anything about it and basically let it happen, lol. Also, the E1 Barry completely abandoned his entire mission the second he saw Iris to go hang out with her for hours, pretending to be her husband. Not once did he ask or inquire about Zoom in any way, like had been the supposed plan- he was completely distracted by the idea that he was married to Iris. And Cisco and Harry probably realized that, or at least they should have, because they both brought up that he shouldn't even be doing this. They probably weren't surprised at hearing that he got "frisky" with her, lol.

[TwistedandBored]

She was kidnapped from her college so unless she skipped a few grades she'll be at least 18.  Hopefully she won't be a brat moving forward.

 

The way that it was shown it looked like Jay whisked 3 people out of that giant building before it collapsed.  As last minute rescues go that's actually pretty lame.

 

Hunter's still alive - Jay and Kaitlin saw him sitting on a bench. 

 

Any version of Jay being Zoom is still a bit of a letdown since it would come across as a watered down version of what happened last season.

 

No. Jay said, he "died" of the same disease he had. This and the different name was why the team was unable to locate his E-1 version. 

Edited February 17, 2016 by TwistedandBored

[DavidJSnyder]

Zolomon is alive and sitting on a bench.  Jay says Zolomon's mother died in childbirth and then he was eventually adopted by the Zolomons.  Caitlin then asks why Zolomon can't help Jay and Jay says it's because Jay was mutated when he because a speedster and Zolomon's wasn't.  But if he was dead Caitlin wouldn't have needed to ask.

 

You can see a screencap of Caitlin and Jay looking at the bench and a description of the scene in the episode 2-11 recap.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Well, maybe she now sees it that way because he didn't say anything about it and basically let it happen, lol. Also, the E1 Barry completely abandoned his entire mission the second he saw Iris to go hang out with her for hours, pretending to be her husband. Not once did he ask or inquire about Zoom in any way, like had been the supposed plan- he was completely distracted by the idea that he was married to Iris. And Cisco and Harry probably realized that, or at least they should have, because they both brought up that he shouldn't even be doing this. They probably weren't surprised at hearing that he got "frisky" with her, lol.

 

I completely agree it was Barry's fault originally for letting himself be sucked into the idea of being married to Iris and didn't tell her the truth from the start, but as the script played out the way it did, its just a personal nitpick.  Since it did play out the way it did, it has Prime!Barry coming off as a creeper who willingly takes advantage of people for his own selfish personal needy benefits just because he can (IMO).

[Potanical Pardon]

 

You misunderstood. I don't care about any of that. What they put in the episode should be clear, unless it's a mystery, like who is Zoom? I don't think I have to go to recaps or after shows, for them to tell me what the meaning of the episode was, or point out what, if any, easter eggs were in said episode. I might as well not watch the episode and just the after show, to hear them hype it. And it's the same EXACT dialogue in each promo every week: "discuss ALL the EASTER EGGS in this episode!" 

 

Me: Whatever and no thanks.

We might be talking about different things - different usage of online recap/aftershows. Or maybe not and see those shows as something different. The shows I'm referring to aren't to clear up or hype anything - at least I'm not watching them for that, and I hadn't gotten the impression that was their intent. I just like watching them in a fandom way, not all of them, just the ones with the people I like. And discuss the flaws just as much as aspects that were fun. The Supergirl one is horrible. I just think of it in a water-cooler sense, like these forums.

[phoenics]

Try the Collider Video Recap instead. Kind-of-sort-of the same Maria Menudos circle of friends, sets, etc. but not under that umbrella/production. Completely separate entity that uses similar sets and shares talent and show formats, but the quality of discussion/deliberation for most of their recap shows is definitely superior.

No please don't switch to the Collider recap. That recap is notoriously bad - they were ripped to shreds for their sexism (and racism, sorry) in their review of 2.12. The guy who leads it apparently wasn't there and the ones left were HORRIBLE. One of them actually called Iris a HO. Seriously. Terrible recappers. For some reason, they cannot be fair and biased - especially with the women characters on the show. For 2.12, I've never seen the thumbs down nearly equal the thumbs up and most of the comments obliterated them.

Refuse to ever watch that show. After buzz would be better. At least they try to be fair.

[Trini]

Just how tired was Jay from the V9?  How could he not have been woken up when Geomancer was setting off earthquakes in the building he was CURRENTLY IN.

 

I don't know what, but I think there be shenanigans afoot.

ETA: Not writer shenanigans, but maybe it's a clue for something they'll reveal later.

Edited February 17, 2016 by Trini

[phoenics]

Yeah, this annoyed me too.  She was held for months by Zoom, terrorized and threatened with death.  She was moments away from finally getting killed and when she finally gets free, his first thought it NOT to put as much distance as she can between her and Zoom?  Really?  After she finally escapes, she treats Zoom's threat as seriously as she would a teenager threatening to toilet paper her house during Halloween.  That doesn't make any sense.

 

At the very least, get as far away as you can and then when you're safe, worry about what you're going to do next.

My worry is that they inserted this so that we'd have a seed for Jesse's upcoming rebelling - where she probably hooks up with Wally to cause trouble. Which irritates me because I really don't care about Jesse and she's onscreen whining and pitching fits every week because her father is trying to keep her safe, I'd rather Zoom killed her off.

[Latverian Diplomat]

More than that, I think their end goal was to get: 'yay, we did it! We closed the breach against Zoom! He's gone! See? We can celebr- oh wait, never mind, Jay's gotten grabbed by Zoom and the breach is closed'.

It was so telegraphed though. Not a surprise at all. And the blocking required Jay to act like an idiot.

[phoenics]

This is more of a 'bah, humbug!' nitpick than anything, but while the "frisky" & "words with him" lines were humorous, I didn't like how the script had E2!Iris basically just nod yes to the question.  Unless there was off-screen stuff we weren't clued in on, all the stuff we did see was Iris getting frisky with E1!Barry;

-  Slamming him against the wall - at work, no less - for some aggressive tonsil hockey and handsy explorations, which Barry stopped almost immediately

-  Stripping down to her bra right as soon as they walked in the front door at home

-  Maybe a couple other small 'moments' I'm not recalling right now?

 

E1!Barry didn't initiate anything in any of those instances, and didn't let them progress to the point of total indecency or take advantage of the situation for his own sake.  Writers could have at least had E2!Iris say nothing that ever went beyond a kiss ever really happened.  Cisco now (might) have the (possible) lingering doubt that 'his' Barry got it on with E2!Iris (or at least tried) just because had a chance with any Iris.

Barry never initiated anything, but he certainly didn't stop her when he knew that she thought he was her husband. That's worth giving someone a "talking to" for "getting frisky" with one's wife, lol.

So in reality - he did get frisky with her because he wasn't honest with her that he wasn't her husband. A lie of omission let all of that play out - and ultimately resulted in Iris-2's father being killed.

It's such a fine hair to split that he didn't initiate the kiss, like they were equals in that situation. E1 Barry had insider information that, if shared with E2 Iris, would have resulted in her NOT kissing him. So by accepting the kiss (and by the last kiss, he fully accepted it and managed to stutter out a very real "I love you"), E1 Barry really was getting frisky with E2 Iris.

I forgive him, but I don't think Iris was wrong to nod there.

No. Jay said, he "died" of the same disease he had. This and the different name was why the team was unable to locate his E-1 version.

But we really did see Jay pointing Hunter Solomon on E1 out to Caitlin when they went for a walk. In winter. Where fall foliage was still happening. This was in either 2.11 or 2.12.

He didn't die - Jay said that his cells weren't a match or something because his (Jay's) cells were too far gone or something? Due to the Velocity 6?

[slayer2]

 

I loved this episode. I was legit terrified by Zoom - TERRIFIED. That's a villain with gravitas... he seems completely unbeatable and thus he is so terrifying. He's more terrifying to me right now than RF was.

 

 

I agree. I knew Jay shouldn't have been standing in front of the breach smiling because I've seen Nightmare on Elm Street just too many times. Furthermore I couldn't even enjoy the pep talk because I was so terrified that Zoom would show up. Good job show! That's how you write a villain! Now tell Arrow.

 

 

I was thinking when I saw the hair that maybe the guy in the mask was Eddie Thawne and he was trying to tell them that Jay was secretly working for Zoom. Or maybe he was trying to tell them that he was Jay. Maybe Jay has an identical twin brother that was separated at birth. Or maybe the guy in the cell was Jay's twin brother and is being held there as leverage by Zoom.

 

 

 

Or maybe Jay is Thawne....again!  And they fall for it EVERY TIME! There's no way that's happening without some in your face "Yo' Flash is so stupid..." jokes.

 

Am I the only one that thought for a happy moment that it was Dr. Fate and his (albeit woredown and crusty) old helmet. Maybe Zoom didn't like his future read on things and he took a Hitleresque approach. I don't know y'all I'm just not feeling another Jay Garrick. Iris #2 can stay and there's always room for more Barrys, Harrisons (although I like this second one) and Ciscos, but I really don't want anymore Jays y'all, like, I can't.

Edited February 18, 2016 by slayer2

[kieyra]

It took me way too long to get why Cisco called KF "Elsa".

...but he remains the best.

Edit: Sigh, I feel really dumb but I'll add this anyway. I thought it was in reference to Elsa Lanchester as the Bride of Frankenstein, because of KF's makeup and hair. And I thought it was an awesome if slightly oblique reference.

But no, he just meant Disney.

You'll make it up to me next week, Cisco.

Edited February 18, 2016 by kieyra

[Enero]

I didn't think this episode was nearly as good as the last. They really should've scrapped the Earth 1 story. It just wasn't interesting at all.

Zoom is channeling The Dark Knight with that voice, but it's affective. He's pretty dam scary.

Though I enjoyed the visit to Earth 2 almost nothing that happened there in last night's episode made any sense:

Iris continuing to go to the precinct and work after her father was practically murdered in front of her.

Iris being upset, but not upset enough to look for her husband after he uncharacteristically disappeared all night, after her father's death.

E2 Barry failing to call Iris as soon as he was freed by Cisco and Wells

Zoom painting the whole town with 'Wells is Wanted' signs but failing to check Star Labs first.

KillerFrost hanging out in the woods. Really? So did she have a treehouse in the forest somewhere, where her and DeathStorm made their home?

Everything that happened in Zoom's lair during the rescue, from the gang standing around talking for 5 minutes after freeing Jesse to the Barry on Barry pep talk.

The additional 5 minute talk at Star Labs before they finally jumped into the time machine. For them to be trying to get away from the fastest man ever, they sure didn't have any urgency. SMH.

Other nitpicks:

Were Iris and Barry able to escape Star Labs before Zoom arrived? They appeared to still be hanging around when the others went to do the time jump.

Jesse being almost appalled that she was going to have to leave her life behind even though it was clear she had no other choice considering the situation.

I did like the Barry/Iris moments. Though brief they were good and gave a little bit of insight into the relationship dynamic. With them both constantly referring to each other as my 'wife' or 'husband' I do wonder if they are still newlyweds, only being married for a couple of years.

On a shallow note, I think CP has gotten even more gorgeous, if that's possible. And GG seems to have gotten more attractive as well. They're both so pretty together and have wonderful chemistry in their scenes.

This show is still very good at creating dynamic and exciting moments, but like in the past, when you start pulling back the layers and dissecting the scenes and storylines there's not a whole lot that makes sense. IMHO.

[TwistedandBored]

Barry never initiated anything, but he certainly didn't stop her when he knew that she thought he was her husband. That's worth giving someone a "talking to" for "getting frisky" with one's wife, lol.

So in reality - he did get frisky with her because he wasn't honest with her that he wasn't her husband. A lie of omission let all of that play out - and ultimately resulted in Iris-2's father being killed.

It's such a fine hair to split that he didn't initiate the kiss, like they were equals in that situation. E1 Barry had insider information that, if shared with E2 Iris, would have resulted in her NOT kissing him. So by accepting the kiss (and by the last kiss, he fully accepted it and managed to stutter out a very real "I love you"), E1 Barry really was getting frisky with E2 Iris.

I forgive him, but I don't think Iris was wrong to nod there.

But we really did see Jay pointing Hunter Solomon on E1 out to Caitlin when they went for a walk. In winter. Where fall foliage was still happening. This was in either 2.11 or 2.12.

He didn't die - Jay said that his cells weren't a match or something because his (Jay's) cells were too far gone or something? Due to the Velocity 6?

 

Oh, I saw it. I don't why I thought he died. Thanks.

[slayer2]

 

Though I enjoyed the visit to Earth 2 almost nothing that happened there in last night's episode made any sense:

 

I'd like to contribute: 

 

Jay standing in front of the portal like "Guys we did it." before it even fucking closed.

Jay holding the intergalactic football and looking at Barry as if he's waiting for pizza topping suggestions instead of simply closing the fucking portal.

Iris not having a backup plan beyond quivering in the earthquake guy's wake. I mean he wasn't even a formidable villain, she punched a guy out made almost entirely of steel, this guy was merely annoying.

Jesse yelling "Stop it" to Zoom when he's once again beating up poor Barry, like that's going to help. Dumbest piece of dialogue ever on the show.

Jesse whining about not seeing her friends when a sociopathic speedster with a deep desire to painfully murder her and anyone she comes into contact with (and who just happens to be the fastest man alive), could appear at any moment, anywhere in the world and make good on his very real threat to MURDER her. I mean I guess you could see your friends again in heaven? Is there a special heaven for traumatized idiots? Will Jay Garrick be joining you? 

 

I have to call shenanigans on Jay as well, for the aforementioned idiocy. I mean either Jay Garrick (and by extension the writer) is deeply stupid or there's a damn good reason he was shuffling his feet and acting like a complete tool for the last 3 minutes of the show (and by tool I mean the DUMBEST one in the shed).

Edited February 18, 2016 by slayer2

[johntfs]

 

Jesse being almost appalled that she was going to have to leave her life behind even though it was clear she had no other choice considering the situation.

Almost, hell.  She was appalled.  And that's okay.  The guy in 127 Hours was likely appalled that he was going to have to cut his arm off, even though he had no other choice considering the situation.  Sure, she wasn't amputating an arm, but she's amputating her life.  She's (for what she knows right now) leaving behind almost everyone she ever knew, everything she ever owned, every place she'd ever been and never coming back.  The breach will be sealed and she'll be stuck in some alien universe forever.  That's pretty fucking appalling when you get right down to it.

Edited February 19, 2016 by johntfs