S01.E02: The Run Of His Life

[rallymantis]

I thought it was gripping.  It's all bringing it back.  The moment that really got to me was David Schwimmer's breakdown in the car.  I felt the agonized frustration and fear and sorrow.  And Malcolm did a solid AC, even in that short window of time.  I bought it all.

I know that there's division on Cuba's casting & portrayal, but it occurred to me that, a reason the actor is a good choice to play OJ, is because most people relate him to Rod Tidwell -- his Jerry Maguire character -- and Cuba's joyous, OTT acceptance speech at the Oscars.  A lot of people love him for that.  Not the same way people loved OJ, but there's a link.  If that makes sense.

[WordFreak]

Maybe it's just me, but I'm finding this show to be rather uneven so far. While I find some of the acting quite good (Cuba Gooding Jr., Sarah Paulson, Courtney B. Vance), other casting / performances are distracting. When I watch Schwimmer, all I can see is Ross, and John Travolta's horrible plastic surgery makes it hard for me to focus on his acting. 

 

Not just that, but the tone of this seems kind of all over the place as well. Here we have the Bronco chase with OJ close to killing himself the whole time (serious), and then the K kids watching their dad on TV and chanting their name. That moment put the episode into camp territory for me, if just for a moment. Then at the end, when OJ asked for orange juice, I felt the same thing. 

 

Despite these issues however, I'm going to keep watching; I was in high school when this trial happened, and I want to see how this show handles that debacle. I guess if nothing else, right now I'm enjoying the cheese factor of this show so far. MMV of course.

[Anela]

Anyone else notice that one of the photographers at Nicole's grave had a man-bun?

I noticed that, too. At the end of the opening sequence. 

 

I cringed at the mention of the girls (kardashians) last week, but figured it would happen at least once. The chanting of their names bugged me, and I'm not very familiar with them. 

 

I actually empathized a bit with OJ, just briefly, for reasons I won't go into here. That was Cuba Gooding I was seeing on the TV, though - not OJ. I think of him, and I doubt he would have harmed himself. But this is my bias creeping in. He creeps me out. 

I don't recall what I felt about it when it was actually happening, though (the bronco chase). I also remember someone saying there was a disguise, and that he was trying to escape. I thought he had a gun on himself initially, and that was it. 

I think I was working on other things, and watching - walking in and out of the kitchen to the living room, in the tiny place we lived in, so I didn't have to walk very far. I can't believe how little I remember. I do know that we didn't order pizza. 

 

I was wondering how they're going to get through the rest of it, with eight episodes. One thing that annoyed me at the time was the way Marcia Clark was treated. 

the  moderator posted as I was writing mine. Sorry about that.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Anela

[poeticlicensed]

I was wondering how they're going to get through the rest of it, with eight episodes. One thing that annoyed me at the time was the way Marcia Clark was treated.

 

Apparently of the next couple of eps is the misogyny episode. I listened to an interview with the creators of the series and they were asked about the Kardashian references. They kind of danced around it. There is or was already one scene where Robert K (dad) takes the girls out to dinner and talks to them about fame. When asked if that really happened, the creators of the series said that they were presuming, based on Robert K's character that a conversation like that may have taken place. I interpreted it as BS.  

Edited February 10, 2016 by poeticlicensed

[Ina123]

I think we'll see snippets of Justin and Sydney when we begin to see the Browns. The Browns did their best to keep the kids away from cameras.

 

Yes, his suicide note ended with a smiley face in the "O" of OJ.

 

Yes, the slow car chase was that slow and took hours.

 

I think the cops didn't stop the Bronco forcefully because he was threatening suicide. They were willing to let AC try to talk him down. They would have run out of gas eventually anyway.

 

They did not know there was a disguise, his passport and money in the Bronco til after the chase.

 

Cochran was just as much a fame-whore as Shapiro.

[StatisticalOutlier]

 Except he's playing a fictional version of Kardashian. This is the nice-guy version his family has been selling as a memory rather than the kind of slimy guy others occasionally say he was.

 

After realizing his connection to both O.J. Simpson and Kris Jenner, all I really know about the guy is that he was a colossally bad judge of character.

 

I'm not sure I can take much more of this show because of the camerawork.  Could they not scrounge up two cameras and instead used one camera and a drone?  All that circling and whirling makes me nauseated.  And annoyed. 

[MonicaM]

Maybe it's just me, but I'm finding this show to be rather uneven so far. While I find some of the acting quite good (Cuba Gooding Jr., Sarah Paulson, Courtney B. Vance), other casting / performances are distracting. When I watch Schwimmer, all I can see is Ross, and John Travolta's horrible plastic surgery makes it hard for me to focus on his acting. 

 

Not just that, but the tone of this seems kind of all over the place as well. Here we have the Bronco chase with OJ close to killing himself the whole time (serious), and then the K kids watching their dad on TV and chanting their name. That moment put the episode into camp territory for me, if just for a moment. Then at the end, when OJ asked for orange juice, I felt the same thing. 

 

Despite these issues however, I'm going to keep watching; I was in high school when this trial happened, and I want to see how this show handles that debacle. I guess if nothing else, right now I'm enjoying the cheese factor of this show so far. MMV of course.

 

OJ really did have a glass of orange juice at his home before he was taken to jail.  

 

A few years before the whole Simpson circus, I was in an abusive relationship.  My ex was very much like OJ - an abusive, narcissistic, egotist who thought the world revolved around him.  I hate to think how much worse my ex would have been if he'd had fame and money like OJ.  

 

Anyway, after an episode where my ex had emotionally or physically attacked me and reduced me to helpless tears, he acted EXACTLY like OJ was acting after the murders.  Very contrite.  Very poor me.  Very "I deserve to die".  His performance worked waaay too many times because I wanted to believe he was the charming person I first met.  At the time of the car chase, this is what convinced me of OJ's guilt.  As a former battered woman myself, I was absolutely 100% certain that Nicole had been subjected to this brand of contrite behavior, and like me, had probably ended up feeling oddly guilty that she was angry or felt unforgiving towards her abuser.  Fortunately I got out of that relationship before we had children, so there were no permanent ties, but for several months, my ex stalked me and created a scene whenever possible, just like OJ did with Nicole.

 

OJ was pulling the same line of crap on the police and everyone around him that he'd pulled on Nicole countless times.  However, he wasn't sorry for anything he'd done, he was genuinely upset and butt hurt that he was facing some kind of consequence for his actions.  

 

The victims in this case were never front and center.  OJ and the LAPD took center stage and the people who died were bit players.  At the time of the trial, I was a happily remarried stay at home mother, so I had lots of time to follow the trial, and I was pretty sure after the first week that OJ would walk, just as Nicole had predicted.  

[lovinbob]

Somewhat, but not totally off topic, but does anyone know why there is not court tv station anymore, in a society that's as litigious as ours. Wouldn't someone with the cash be interested in starting such a channel. Anyone have any ideas?

 

They're taking some awful liberties with the inside of the car, no? Do we know for sure, apart from the short phone calls, what was really said by both OJ and AC?

I didn't know there wasn't a Court TV station, but haven't CNN and Nancy Grace pretty much picked up that flag and run with it?

 

Definitely liberties are being taken, but there probably couldn't be a show without it.

[bannana]

The only performance I am finding unrealistic is John Travolta's.  Yes, Robert Shapiro was egotistical and a character, but Travolta's portrayal is way over the top.  I think Schwimmer is doing fine as Kardashian.

[poeticlicensed]

I didn't know there wasn't a Court TV station, but haven't CNN and Nancy Grace pretty much picked up that flag and run with it?

 

Definitely liberties are being taken, but there probably couldn't be a show without it.

Court TV became TRuTV and for a few years and they still covered court cases during the day and did crap reality shows by night (think storage unit auctions and the like). Then the court part went away. When a high profile case (Casey Anthony, George Zimmerman) is happening, HLN and CNN, with Nancy Grace at the helm run it in real time. My guess is it had to do with ratings. 

Edited February 10, 2016 by poeticlicensed

[BoogieBurns]

Watching this after recently seeing the 30 for 30 doc about the chase made for a good pairing.

 

I watched that on Netflix this weekend. OJ actually drank a glass of orange juice after the chase. The police officer giving the press conference said (paraphrasing) "OJ is at his residence, he is going to be taken into custody, and right now he is drinking a glass of orange juice." The reporters in the press conference all laughed and it broke the tension after the crazy night they all had. 

 

I thought OJ was the only one in the Bronco. I was so clueless before this series. 

[choclatechip45]

I don't think Kris testified. I am pretty sure Caitlyn testified about calming Oj down at some Christmas party they had.

[BBDi]

Here is my personal OJ bronco chase memory. My father was visiting me from the other coast for the first time since I have moved back east several years before. He at that time was a retired or semi-retired criminal defense lawyer. Well, let's just say that instead of going out and doing the fun and interesting things I had planned, his butt was glued to the sofa as we watched the car chase and he spun ideas about how he would approach defending Simpson.

He also sat and watched Simpson coverage during his little granddaughter's birthday party.

That part bothered me a little, but then again I grew up hearing about racial injustice in the legal system as well as the importance of everyone getting access to a competent defense. Plus I knew that my dad lived and breathed this stuff so it wasn't really a surprise. Interestingly, his ideas for depending Simpson were all based on the assumption that he was guilty.

[Jadzia]

And when Robert Shapiro was driving in his car, I kind of chuckled at the cheesy elevator music he was playing on his radio, until I recognized the song and thought, "Hey - I loved that song!"  Thankfully I did not delete this episode from my DVR yet, because it's going to drive me bonkers until I can recall the name of the song and the singer.

 

IIRC, it was Al Jarreau's "We're in This Love Together".

[punkypower]

I feel like the tone was really off in the scene where Jason runs up to the Bronco. There was obviously no sound in the clip that was shown from the helicopter, but I thought that Jason seemed absolutely furious with OJ. I never got the impression he was begging him to give up. I think he was more likely screaming at him for creating the man hunt, and putting his family through hell.

I'm irritated that the K kids are constantly referenced. Kris was tangentially involved (and testified, I believe), but the kids are absolutely unnecessary and superfluous to the story. I'm beginning to think we need to prepare for a future season - "American Crime Story: The Kim Kardashian Sex Tape Conspiracy."

Jason running out to the Bronco is one of the images that has stuck with me most about that night. I remember reading or seeing somewhere that he was angry that AC wouldn't let him see/talk to his Dad, but AC was trying to push Jason back to protect him in case OJ killed himself/all the nearby SWAT team.

Also mentioned down-thread is the Goldmans saying JC and OJ turned and mouthed "Gotcha!" after the verdict. I saw that on one of the documentaries. With all the cameras and people that day, how did nobody catch that?!?!

I went to Catholic high school. I remember all of us celebrating the verdict in our Newspaper class.

I always believed (or wanted to believe) that he was innocent. Same thing with MJ. I guess I'm really weird, because I can never believe anyone could lie, steal, molest children, murder another being, and/or all other crimes. Yet, I know SOMEONE had to do these things, because we see the fallout.

The recent documentaries have opened my eyes a lot. The most telling moments for me were AC breaking down during his civil deposition when shown a picture of Nicole and Kris Jenner saying that when Robert was on his deathbed, he refused the call from OJ.

Whenever I heard RM was making this show, I started counting down. As I heard the casting, I grew even more excited. When I saw the ads during AHS, I could have peed my pants in anticipation. ACS has not disappointed. It's riveting drama, and everyone involved on and off camera is bringing their A-game!

[lovinbob]

IIRC, it was Al Jarreau's "We're in This Love Together".

Yes! This may be off base, but my immediate reaction hearing it was that Shapiro was all about the easy listening, then realizing that it was Al Jarreau. Pop jazz that was as "white" as Jazz can get (save for Kenny G). It felt appropriate for OJ, who was regarded as a black man who had transcended his ethnicity.

[crookedjackson44]

I mentioned this show in my Intro to Literature class today and the students erupted.  Even though most of them were too young to even have seen the chase, much less remember it, they chatted for quite a while about the whole case and all of its weird ramifications.  I thought that to today's kids OJ was ancient history, but I was wrong; they are fascinated with it, too.

[beavis93]

Somewhat, but not totally off topic, but does anyone know why there is not court tv station anymore

CourtTV was rebranded as TruTV. So now you get Impractical Jokers instead. Same reason MTV stopped showing music videos, or Bravo and A&E no longer show operas and jazz concerts. Prepackaged "reality" = ratings

[laurakaye]

IIRC, it was Al Jarreau's "We're in This Love Together".

THANK YOU.  Al Jarreau, that name would not come to me!

Edited February 10, 2016 by laurakaye

[beavis93]

I think we've said all there is to say about the appearance of the Kardashian children in this episode. 

 

Thank you. Meanwhile did anyone else catch the other wink at the future? Gil Garcetti's character says "I thought I was going to be mayor." Lo and behold, who is the current mayor of Los Angeles?

[Kbilly]

I had just graduated from eighth grade and my friend was having a dance party. The party was outside but a lot of the kids, including myself, were sitting in front of the TV inside watching the chase. Watching last night, the conclusion of the chase was seriously terrifying--the darkness, the emotion and tension on high, yikes. Jason running out to the Bronco kind of broke my heart. All of the people clogging the street was disturbing.

 

The dazed woundedness Vance puts in his voice when he says, "they don't want us to see"

 

That was so dang effective!

 

After reading Kato's civil case deposition at someone on here's suggestion last week, the whole case has become a lot scarier to me. Cuba Simpson Jr. (As Bomani Jones has been calling him) looked so creepy in the dark of the back of the cop car.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Kbilly

[Mittengirl]

They skim by some things so quickly that I get confused. When Kardashian came to Rockingham he asked someone, Jason perhaps, where OJ's mother was. I thought Jason said that she had had heart palpitations and was in the hospital. But when OJ and K were talking over the phone in the car, I thought K said that OJ's mother was at the house, on the house phone. Was OJ's mom at the house and unable to come down to see him - either physically unable or not allowed to by police - or was she in the hospital?

[Epeolatrix]

OJ's mom was in the hospital and from there she called the house line (as opposed to anyone's cell phone), so if OJ wanted to talk to her, he had to come inside to use that phone.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

'News, Entertainment, And Sports'
American Crime Story's most provocative moments, from effective to [eye-roll].

[TV Diva Queen]

They skim by some things so quickly that I get confused. When Kardashian came to Rockingham he asked someone, Jason perhaps, where OJ's mother was. I thought Jason said that she had had heart palpitations and was in the hospital. But when OJ and K were talking over the phone in the car, I thought K said that OJ's mother was at the house, on the house phone. Was OJ's mom at the house and unable to come down to see him - either physically unable or not allowed to by police - or was she in the hospital?

RK lied to OJ, if he would have told OJ that his mom was in the hospital, OJ probably would have tried to drive away to go see her.  RK knew that the SWAT team would kill him if he left.  

[Kromm]

Who is also dead now.

And?

I thought OJ was the only one in the Bronco. I was so clueless before this series. 

Is this an age thing perhaps?  At least to those of us who remember it firsthand, I think the image of AC in the drivers seat and the shadow of OJ in the backseat became an indelible image.

I thought it was gripping.  It's all bringing it back.  The moment that really got to me was David Schwimmer's breakdown in the car.  I felt the agonized frustration and fear and sorrow. 

I could feel that more if I was more sure it really happened.

Apparently of the next couple of eps is the misogyny episode. I listened to an interview with the creators of the series and they were asked about the Kardashian references. They kind of danced around it. There is or was already one scene where Robert K (dad) takes the girls out to dinner and talks to them about fame. When asked if that really happened, the creators of the series said that they were presuming, based on Robert K's character that a conversation like that may have taken place. I interpreted it as BS.  

Sounds like Ryan Murphy and his partners being the total fuckwits they often are. 

Definitely liberties are being taken, but there probably couldn't be a show without it.

It depends on where and why. In some cases you can simply not show something and it doesn't change the essential story. I mean this thing presumes it knows what OJ said and did inside that Bronco, for example. What Robert K did in private out of range of anyone in his car. What the K kids did at home that night. Things people whispered to each other at Nicole's funeral. Etc. Does this stuff really inherently make the story, or does it just steer the story a way these writers want?

I hope Cuba gets a ton of awards for this. He's giving it everything he has.

He won't. There's been too much grumbling about how he doesn't look or "feel" (give the sense of) OJ. His acting almost doesn't matter as much as how Emmy voters are likely to remember this performance. Then again, I suppose it's at least possible that the pushback against "Oscars So White" could affect the Emmys next season (even though the accusations were against the Oscars) and Cuba might at least get a nomination.

[Decider]

Thank you. Meanwhile did anyone else catch the other wink at the future? Gil Garcetti's character says "I thought I was going to be mayor." Lo and behold, who is the current mayor of Los Angeles?

 

Eric Garcetti, Gil's son, is the current mayor of Los Angeles.

[BoogieBurns]

Is this an age thing perhaps?  At least to those of us who remember it firsthand, I think the image of AC in the drivers seat and the shadow of OJ in the backseat became an indelible image.

 

Yes. I was 7 when this went down. Plus, super sheltered. My parents were super invested in the case, but I got sanitized snippets. Had no clue that OJ was even threatening suicide. My parents told me he was driving too fast and the cops were trying to pull him over. That was all I knew at the time. I've been calling my parents out on all their lies after each episode. 

[helenamonster]

 I think I read how the Goldmans aren't happy about this show, but I do want to see who is playing Fred and Kim Goldman.  I already know that Jordana Brewster Skeletor is playing Denise Brown.  I hope whoever plays Fred, is able to capture his rage and grief at what was done to his son, Ron.

 

And yes, I also remember all those people on the bridge, urging OJ to run, chanting "Juice!" and "Run OJ!" but I don't recall the people grappling, shouting their "love" for OJ,  and trying to get into the Bronco when it returned to Brentwood. That's why I was wondering if that was one of the creative licenses the writers took. Like with the reporters.

 

Joseph Siravo, aka Johnny Boy Soprano from The Sopranos, will be playing Fred Goldman, and a relatively new actress named Jessica Blair Herman is playing Kim.

 

I think the crowd around the house in Brentwood was somewhat accurate. I was wondering that too but in one of the clips of real news footage you can see a crowd following the Bronco as it pulls into the driveway.

[hoosiermom]

I am 63 and have always been intrigued by true crime. I purposely did not watch the Bronco chase or any pre-trial publicity on the case because I wanted to watch the trial and make up my own mind. Once it started I was glued to all things OJ till it was over and then some. It changed the way I was acting and friends would just shake their heads at me and say "it must be an OJ thing". It took me a while to recover from the verdict and get back to "normal".

Edited February 11, 2016 by hoosiermom

[Kromm]

Yes. I was 7 when this went down. Plus, super sheltered. My parents were super invested in the case, but I got sanitized snippets. Had no clue that OJ was even threatening suicide. My parents told me he was driving too fast and the cops were trying to pull him over. That was all I knew at the time. I've been calling my parents out on all their lies after each episode. 

I don't know your race (and the story may have gone around everywhere at the time), but I do think the idea that OJ was just another black driver being harassed by the cops did float around briefly before the news reports and press conference clarified things. And then Shapiro had his own press conference (of course there's no real way to know how Johnny Cochrane reacted in a closed door meeting watching that, so that's another likely invention). 

Oh, if anyone wants to see how these press conferences REALLY went down...  Ryan Murphy actually had the balls to change the words of something that was broadcast on national TV though--if you watch the tape it's NOT what ACS had him saying. Shaprio DOES use the word "I" a lot, as fictional-Cochrane accuses, but it's not NEARLY as bad. 

 

http://www.bustle.com/articles/140428-watch-robert-kardashians-oj-simpson-press-conference-a-pivotal-moment-in-the-case-our-culture

 

The part with Kardashian speaking seems fairly accurate, except (unless it's been cut out at the beginning) there doesn't seem to be all the back and forth about "who are you" and what the right name spelling is. Oh, I also don't hear the big "gasp!" moment (and what onscreen led to bitter complaints from fictional-Marsha Clark) where the show had OJ talking in his letter about how he felt like he was being abused.

[choclatechip45]

As someone who was under 2 when this all happened it's very interesting to hear everyone's perspective. I've always heard the about case and read a lot about it because of the 10 year anniversary and I am a true crime junkie. My dad is a huge sports fan who even met Oj years before this all happened.

[FuriousStyles]

Yes. I was 7 when this went down.

I was about 7 too and yes all this time I assumed OJ was by himself.

[roughing it]

Regarding Cuba as OJ - when Meryl Streep played Julia Child in "Julie and Julia", they did some tricks to make Meryl seem much bigger than she was.  Like ramps that she would walk on that would make her tower over Stanley Tucci.  I wonder why they didn't try something like that here?

[Umbelina]

Somewhat, but not totally off topic, but does anyone know why there is not court tv station anymore, in a society that's as litigious as ours. Wouldn't someone with the cash be interested in starting such a channel. Anyone have any ideas?

 

They're taking some awful liberties with the inside of the car, no? Do we know for sure, apart from the short phone calls, what was really said by both OJ and AC?

Well, that cop talked to OJ a LOT, and several times, so even though AC has been silent about that time, I think the guy that wrote this book, thus the show, is taking quite a bit from that, as far as mood.  I haven't read this book, so I don't know if he interviewed some of the other people OJ called.  There was also a huge crowd at his house IIRC, not just family, so some of those people may have talked.  Interestingly enough, AC and his lawyers during the civil deposition offered to tell all if AC would be granted immunity from possible criminal charges (like evaded police, aiding and abetting, whatever) but that never happened, so AC maintained, at the advise of council, silence, and plead the 5th.  As he should, legally.

 

The only performance I am finding unrealistic is John Travolta's.  Yes, Robert Shapiro was egotistical and a character, but Travolta's portrayal is way over the top.  I think Schwimmer is doing fine as Kardashian.

I felt that way last week.  This week?  I really felt like he brought it, in several scenes.  Yes, Shapiro was just that much of a OTT phony, self preserving, egocentric, and pompous guy.  Lots of stories during the trial of JC and RS not getting along too.

 

For those that thought the Bronco chase went on too long?  In real life, it went on a LOT longer.  From my memory, and I must have had that day off because I know I watched the whole thing, including Garcetti announcing OJ was a fugitive, before they found the Bronco, it took forever.  My boyfriend at the time was a detective in another city in California, but he knew some of the investigators in LA.  I remember he told me they had found blood in a sink drain very early in the day of the 15th, and looking at me, and both of us realizing OJ did it, and this was several hours/days before any of that was released.  I remember watching the trial and that sink drain blood never coming up, to my best recollection.  Oddly enough, in my reading spree during the past week, at one point OJ is in his bedroom and someone has to put the sink U joint (or part of that drain) back together so he can use the sink.  Now I can't stop wondering why they didn't take that u joint or whatever back.  Maybe they felt they had enough evidence, maybe someone forgot, maybe they were wrong, who know?

 

(not skipping ahead, since OJ, in show time, is out of the house, and the search is over there.)

Regarding Cuba as OJ - when Meryl Streep played Julia Child in "Julie and Julia", they did some tricks to make Meryl seem much bigger than she was.  Like ramps that she would walk on that would make her tower over Stanley Tucci.  I wonder why they didn't try something like that here?

Seriously!  They also cast shorter actors.

 

I think Cuba is doing a good job, but the size and menace and charm of OJ just isn't there, and it IS taking me out of the story, as hard as I try to "just go with it."  OJ had a huge head and huge hands, and frankly that was part of why thinking of him beating Nicole was so horrifying.  It would have been horrifying anyway, but it WAS part of the menace.  It's well stated in that Jury # 5 documentary, how physically intimidating he was.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Umbelina

[islandgal140]

I can't believe I am watching and enjoying this mini-series as much as I am. I remember rolling my eyes when hearing not only that it was being made but that it was being made by Ryan Murphy. Yet, here I am, perched and ready for the next episode. LOL!

 

I was a little young to grab the import of the OJ trial and yet still it feels like a part of my youth and I feel damn near nostalgic seeing the footage. I just have flashes of my parents being riveted to the screen and me wishing they would turn the channel because that shit (as I saw it at the time) was boring as hell. 

 

I am not a sports fan - AT ALL- so I am super curious to know what inspired such worship of OJ. Was he that good? That charismatic?

 

I think acting wise Cuba is doing a decent job with the emotional scenes and such but I do have to remind myself of who he is playing. I don't think he has the physical presence or resemblance to OJ and his performance, although good, is not transcending that limitation. I keep wondering if a more imposing actor like Michael J White or Trai Byers (Andre, Empire - although young) would have worked better?

 

One thing I will say is that this is making me so much more sympathetic towards Charles Darden. He really got vilified and called all kinds of sell out and self-hating during that time.  

 

Malcolm Jamal as AC going off on that phone operator amused me more than it should have. "Everything is terrible!"

Edited February 10, 2016 by islandgal140

[Constantinople]

For those that thought the Bronco chase went on too long?  In real life, it went on a LOT longer.  From my memory, and I must have had that day off because I know I watched the whole thing, including Garcetti announcing OJ was a fugitive, before they found the Bronco, it took forever.

That's what I recall too, not that I watched all of it. I don't have a problem using an entire episode on it, but I don't think it conveyed the slowness of it. Perhaps nothing could unless they played it out in real time.

[RemoteControlFreak]

Kardashian Kids:  Kourtney & Kim would've been teenagers (13-15) at the time, so they wouldn't have been too young to see the chase.  Rob & Khloe, maybe, but not Kim & Kourtney. 

 

The only unnecessary K Kid reference was the one last night while they were chanting.  They've only been mentioned 3 times.

Which is two times too many.  The funeral scene in Ep. 1 was enough to establish that Kris and Robert were indeed the parents of the future reality TV characters.  There was no reason to show their reaction to seeing their father on TV anymore than it was necessary to show the reaction of Gil Garcetti's family or Robert Shapiro's family.  They add nothing to the story and are only there because that's how Ryan Murphy rolls.

Edited February 11, 2016 by RemoteControlFreak

[RemoteControlFreak]

I am not a sports fan - AT ALL- so I am super curious to know what inspired such worship of OJ. Was he that good? That charismatic?

He wasn't worshipped or universally beloved in my recollection.  I don't agree with the post on Page 1 that "I'm trying to think of someone as famous and beloved as OJ was then today."  

 

He was famous, sure, as an ex-NFL player who transitioned to roles in cheesy movies and in commercials.  I, for one, had no particular love for him.

 

He was a bad actor and the Hertz commercials got old after a while. He played football in a small market city (Buffalo) on a bad team and he didn't excel. He was not an NFL star.  His football career peaked in college at USC so it's possible that the people in South Central LA near the USC campus still remembered that.

 

The attention paid to the case stemmed not just form his celebrity but from the drama of it all that was mostly all played out on live TV.

[reggiejax]

 

I thought OJ was the only one in the Bronco. I was so clueless before this series.

Is this an age thing perhaps?  At least to those of us who remember it firsthand, I think the image of AC in the drivers seat and the shadow of OJ in the backseat became an indelible image.

 

It undoubtedly has to be an age thing if one was under the impression OJ was in the Bronco by himself.

 

No one who witnessed this back then can ever forget AC being the one in the drivers seat. In truth, it is essentially the only reason anyone knows who he is. And his antics during the chase became kind of a pop culture punchline, even influencing a plot in a Seinfeld episode, with Kramer in the AC role.

 

 

 

 

I am not a sports fan - AT ALL- so I am super curious to know what inspired such worship of OJ. Was he that good? That charismatic?

 

He wasn't worshipped or universally beloved in my recollection.  I don't agree with the post on Page 1 that "I'm trying to think of someone as famous and beloved as OJ was then today

 

As a football player, OJ really was in that rare strata where he was one of the greats of the game, and beloved by fans. I don't just mean someone who was a good football player and remembered fondly. He was one of the absolute best at a glamour position. On 6/11/94, if you wanted to create a Mount Rushmore of NFL running backs, three who would absolutely have made the cut were Jim Brown, Walter Payton and OJ Simpson. People could have argued over the fourth, but those three would have been iron clad choices.

 

As an actor, spokesman and color commentator, OJ was an ex-football player. Not really different than any other ex jock who wanted to stay in the limelight. If he had something going for him that others may not have, it was that he was indeed immensely likeable. Someone might not have necessarily been a fan of his post playing days endeavors, but they would have been hard pressed to find anything about him that generated even the slightest dislike.

 

Combine his genuine status as an all-time great football player with his likeable public persona, and you do have someone who the public was truly fond of. Though yeah, I wouldn't go and say there were "few more beloved". In spite of his charisma, OJ was considered rather bland and neutral. And on 6/11/94, OJ was past his prime on just about every level. Still liked, still famous and still recognizable, but not anyone who was generating interest.   

 

Then came the night of 6/12/94. And the view of OJ, even as an all-time great running back, changed forever. Changed so hard, so fast and so much, that even someone like me, who was around for most of OJ's famous, pre-double murder, years, has to put effort into remembering who the Juice was back then.

Edited February 10, 2016 by reggiejax

[Umbelina]

I wasn't a football fan, and even I knew who OJ was.  I think part of the reason people "loved" him was that he seriously enjoyed the fame, and thus, ALWAYS gave autographs/interviews/handshakes/waves/hugs, just was very, very personable and accommodating to his fans.  He had a squeaky clean image and that reputation of just being very nice, he never, hell, even when he was returning home after finding out Nicole was killed, turned away a fan who wanted an autograph.  He was also the "nice guy" on the sport commentary shows.  Since he lived in LA, that was especially true there.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Umbelina

[Decider]

I only have one nitpick. When Kardashian read OJ's suicide note almost 22 years ago, He put on his glasses to read the damned note. I'm sorry, if they're trying to show as much accuracy as they can, down to mannerisms and tics and behavior, then they should get everything right--and this was something we all saw. Yes, I'm anal sometimes.

 

Kardashian was not wearing glasses when he read the note.  Video here.  (I thought he was wearing them, too.)

Edited February 10, 2016 by Decider

[reggiejax]

He played football in a small market city (Buffalo) on a bad team and he didn't excel. He was not an NFL star.  His football career peaked in college at USC so it's possible that the people in South Central LA near the USC campus still remembered that.

 

 

OJ did play for the moribund Buffalo Bills for all but the last two seasons of his career. And those last two seasons were spent with the 49'ers, before they became a dynasty. That is true.

 

But the idea that OJ did not excel in the NFL and was not a star is just wrong. The man was clearly a huge star, there is no doubting that. As for his excellence, here are the cold hard facts:

 

OJ retired having rushed for 11,236 yards. That puts him at 21st all-time. But when he retired in 1979, it was good enough for 2nd all-time, just behind the all-time rushing leader at that time, Jim Brown, who rushed for 12,312 yards. Of the 19 people who have passed him since, 15 were not playing yet, and of that 15, 9 wouldn't begin their careers until after OJ committed the murders in 1994, and 3 more weren't even alive.

 

In 1973, OJ set the single season rushing mark with 2003 yards. That made him the first person to break the 2000 yards mark in a single season, That record stood for 11 years until Eric Dickerson broke it, and only 5 others have hit that milestone since Dickerson broke the record. And for what it's worth, OJ still remains, and will always remain, the only one to do it in a 14 game season.

 

OJ led the NFL in rushing 4 times, was a 6 time Pro-Bowler, was the MVP of the 1973 season, and was inducted into the NFL Hall of Fame in 1985.

 

If that is not "excelling" at professional football, I don't know what is.

Edited February 11, 2016 by reggiejax

[GHScorpiosRule]

Kardashian was not wearing glasses when he read the note.  Video here.  (I thought he was wearing them, too.)

 

 

Yeah, I just saw that in the case thread, I think. And I feel like an igit. I could have sworn he was wearing glasses and removed them when he finished reading the note. Maybe it was another press conference? Because he was wearing spectacles when the verdict was read, right? All the images are blurring together for me now, heh.

 

 

I wasn't a football fan, and even I knew who OJ was.  I think part of the reason people "loved" him was that he seriously enjoyed the fame, and thus, ALWAYS gave autographs/interviews/handshakes/waves/hugs, just was very, very personable and accommodating to his fans.  He had a squeaky clean image and that reputation of just being very nice, he never, hell, even when he was returning home after finding out Nicole was killed, turned away a fan who wanted an autograph.  He was also the "nice guy" on the sport commentary shows.  Since he lived in LA, that was especially true there.

 

Taking response to the case discussion thread.

Edited February 10, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[islandgal140]

 

 

Yeah, I just saw that in the case thread, I think. And I feel like an igit. I could have sworn he was wearing glasses and removed them when he finished reading the note. Maybe it was another press conference? Because he was wearing spectacles when the verdict was read, right? All the images are blurring together for me now, heh.

 

 

 

 

 

Taking response to the case discussion thread.

Where is this case discussion thread please and thank you.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Where is this case discussion thread please and thank you.

 

In this forum: The title is "If it Doesn't Fit, You Must Acquit"

 

Link

[Penman61]

The other thing about pre-murder OJ besides being a major, major football star and celebrity spokesperson, is that, to white America, OJ was one of the "good ones."  (This is why he could be a spokesperson for a huge nationwide company like Hertz.)  

 

So when the murders happened, white America, as usual, got to have it both ways:  "None of them can be trusted," and "I just knew there was something about him," and "That's what happens when you marry a black man."  

 

These first two episodes seem to also be wanting to have it both ways, but it's also because, at the heart of this, OJ himself had it both ways: He was a celebrity who could codeswitch and pass with ease until he needed to be a black victim of white police corruption.

 

I'm so glad America has moved past all these issues.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Penman61

[Happytobehere]

"I see OJ, man, and he looks scared!"

 

Done in a really bad, racist "black" voice.

Okay, that doesn't really convey it.

 

In a nutshell it was some Howard Stern Show fan, pulling a prank on  national live TV on Canadian Peter Jennings (who was totally fooled). 

It was massively racist, if we're being honest. It's not admirable, it's more notorious.

 

https://youtu.be/nqKjhzRDUhA

I remember that call and it was so painfully obvious what it was. I remember that call for revealing that Peter Jennings was both stupid and a racist. Stupid because he didn't realize that call was fake -- his show where the call came from mentioned that OJ lived in an all white neighborhood. Racist because Jennings obviously found it normal and acceptable that black people spoke like that and were too stupid to know basic words like tense -- "It do be the tenses."

I am sighing with you. I don't have strong feelings about Gooding one way or another, but still find him completely unsuited to this particular role. Simpson was a physically imposing, tremendously charismatic man who dominated a room and anyone in his orbit. For me, Gooding simply doesn't have the heft, the presence, the gravitas to convey this giant of a personality. To be blunt, sometimes I think he veers pretty close to a Steve Urkel interpretation of Simpson. That said, perhaps OJ really was a sniveling, pathetic puddle of emotions in the Bronco and if so, I think Gooding captured that rather well.

Aside from Travolta's face, CGJ is the worst thing on this show. He is completely miscast and utterly unbelievable. Malcolm Jamal Warner, who was cast as AC, would have been the better choice for the role, both in terms of presence and acting ability.

[Kromm]

He wasn't worshipped or universally beloved in my recollection.  I don't agree with the post on Page 1 that "I'm trying to think of someone as famous and beloved as OJ was then today."  

 

He was famous, sure, as an ex-NFL player who transitioned to roles in cheesy movies and in commercials.  I, for one, had no particular love for him.

 

He was a bad actor and the Hertz commercials got old after a while. He played football in a small market city (Buffalo) on a bad team and he didn't excel. He was not an NFL star.  His football career peaked in college at USC so it's possible that the people in South Central LA near the USC campus still remembered that.

 

The attention paid to the case stemmed not just form his celebrity but from the drama of it all that was mostly all played out on live TV.

I don't know if he was universally beloved, but he wasn't some plodder as a player. He was in the Pro Bowl 6 times.  He won the Heisman Trophy in college--something that generally leads to fame even from the start of a Pro career. He was All-Pro and was the best rusher (winning the title the NFL has for that) for like 4 or 5 years in a row. He retired as the 2nd best rusher (in terms of yards) in NFL history--although time and newer players have now knocked him down the list to #18.  Yes, he was on a shit team, but his stats alone got him plenty of attention. Not to the point of being a legend, but a far better than average player--who if he'd BEEN on a better team might have become one.

 

The one thing he didn't do was win a Superbowl ring, but that's hardly an automatic exemption from fame as a player. 

 

His acting career was however, as you say, why non-football fans knew him (it did admittedly boost his "legend" as a football player in some ways). He was one of the originators of that whole thing where ex-football players go into acting, which IMO too many of them followed up doing.  People did (as this show implied) compare him to Jim Brown--who'd done the acting transition even a few years earlier. 

 

The main thing is that OJ marketed his own legend well.  Beyond the acting he did plenty of things, like celeb golf tournaments, appearances, talk shows,, hanging out at the right Hollywood parties, and helped that attention to himself grow. He milked the fame from the Hertz campaign up the wazoo, for example, and by the time of these events had latched onto the Naked Gun fame with his teeth (metaphorically) and wouldn't let that go either. He was hardly the most famous ex-footballer, but he certainly was ONE of the most famous (even if not strictly from his playing). 

Edited February 11, 2016 by Kromm

[chlban]

Well that's something I'm curious if it gets addressed. if OJ was innocent - why would he want to kill himself because his ex wife was killed? Like that thing never really made sense to me. They weren't married, they weren't close to getting back together - he has two young kids....

Innocent people don't go rushing to shoot themselves.

I agree with whomever said - if this was today - famous or not - OJ would have been shot, this AC person too.

You. A exavtly right about the suicide threat. That was when I went from thinking he might be guilty to absolutely knowing he was