S20.E05: Week 5

[ByTor]

Regarding Amanda...the thing that bugs me most about her is her insistence that her going on The Bachelor is just as much for her kids as it is for her. Please.

Jubilee said she hates competing with other women for a man. Why on earth she thought going on a reality show where several women compete for a man was a good idea is beyond me. However, I feel like I have to defend her "attitude" in the Spanish class. I really thought her "you said that to the last four women" comment was meant as a joke, because it seemed like "I love you" (and variations of it) was the only thing he was being told to say in Spanish. When Emily said her "jaw dropped" over that comment, I thought geez, grow a sense of humor. Although I guess some people tend to not take sarcastic humor as it's intended. I also thought Ben was being a whiny bitch about Jubilee not holding his hand. If she's so uncomfortable with the whole competitive thing< I can totally see why she wouldn't want to show any affection, including hand holding, in front of the other women. And, as others have mentioned, I do love how Ben tried to get her to be the one to admit things weren't going to work out for them, and she turned it back on him, thus thwarting his plans of being the nice guy who "allowed" her to be the one to do the dumping.

I also have to defend Olivia and the "Teen Mom" comment. I've never seen that show, but I'm sure there was many an episode where the dad took the kids and mom had to pick them up, and what Amanda said reminded her of that. I don't think anything derogatory was intended.

In my 47 years I have never once done a tequila shot, and I don't think I should start doing them for a "like" drinking game...or for every time Ben says "incredible" (I guess he's trying to be clever and start a new franchise catchphrase to replace "amazing").

What was that semi Pebbles Flintstone thing Becca had on the top of her head? That was just bad. You know what else was bad? Perpetuating that myth that people speak a non-English language so that they can insult you without you understanding what they are saying. I'm speaking of the Spanish "that looks like dog food" comment the restaurant owners made. I'm positive that was edited completely out of context.

Edited February 3, 2016 by ByTor

[poopchute]

Not in this thread but people have remarked that it's sketchy that Amanda and her husband divorced right after their second child was born. Why, exactly? If it had been the old comedy scenario in a white woman with a white husband gives birth to a biracial baby, then OK. But their daughters look the same.

Past contestants have talked about putting on the "Bachelor 15" during filming. I really saw it on Lauren B. this week.

Jubilee's "unlovable" lament was a transparent Bachelorette bid. She'd never mentioned that specific insecurity.

I definitely think it's really odd to get divorced either right before giving birth or immediately after. I figured there had to be a good story there because I think it would take something pretty egregious to make someone make that decision in the time period between deciding to have a baby with someone and the actual delivery of that baby. But then it turns out that the story is the guy was a dick the whole time starting 6 months after the first baby was born so naturally it made the most sense to marry him, have another child, and then get divorced. Amanda seems pretty dim so I guess that kind of decision making isn't surprising.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I thought Lauren B. was looking cute last week but this week I found myself finding her plain, wondering, what did I see beforehand?  

 

I wasn't the nicest about Lauren H.'s face before but I will grant that is an amazing pair of legs and I agree her body looked just great on the runway.

 

Leah to me is plain plain plain.  Apparently Ben and/or the producers feel the same way.  I'll reserve judgement on Jennifer; she's kind of cute but who knows what kind of person she is.

 

Sorry, but nothing anyone can make me say will make me pro-Olivia.  (Though sure, I'm pro-Olivia for the drama).  I loved Amanda being the only person that has ever stuck up for herself to Olivia's comments.  I loved Baby Emily running to (I have literally forgotten his name) (Brad)  (Whatever)  (Oh) Ben and crying about how mean Olivia is.  It was HILARIOUS.  

Edited February 3, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[saber5055]

I missed the table hair.

Ben didn't. He asked "Whose hair?" but we did not get to hear the answer.

I'm from the Midwest as well, and since I was the one who first said "corn fed", let me clarify that I don't associate any negative connotation with it. To me, a guy who is "corn fed" is a Midwestern boy from a small town or farm who has that healthy, strong, and above all, wholesome look. It certainly doesn't imply being plump or overweight. Ben is the kind of guy I would associate with "corn fed".

Nothing negative about being "corn fed." I'm a Midwesterner living on a farm, and I've always associated the term with someone being wholesome, big, strapping, able to carry in the firewood and tote the bales. Corn-fed women can carry in the pail after milking the cow, then bake biscuits in the oven all day for her men out in the fields. And, oh yeah, she's able to birth lots of babies, pretty much in between doing chores. Heck, I'M corn-fed. Not a thing wrong with it.

I think it is also unfair to assume that cornfed people automatically wouldn't consider black or other minority partners

This is true. Since this corn-fed Midwestern farmer has dated blacks, several Asians, had a long-term with a Hispanic, plus many long-term relationships with Caucasian Jerks, the worst ethnic group of all.

 

Wow, there's a Leah on this show? Who knew!

I disagree with you because in all of your posts you give Jubilee the benefit of the doubt, but you do not afford Ben or the producers that same benefit.

This reminds me, the lead story on TMZ yesterday was White Ben kicking Black Jubilee off the show on Black History Month. It got a lot of play, and laughs. 

because let's be honest, the unlovable thing was ridiculous and there's just no way he's AS nice as hes portraying

But you have to give Ben credit for giving Jubilee HER new tag line, that SHE'S unloveable. 

Regarding Amanda...the thing that bugs me most about her is her insistence that her going on The Bachelor is just as much for her kids as it is for her. Please.

 

Well, there IS that paycheck thing, and maybe her kids do best when she isn't around all that much. Her comment can be interpreted so many ways!

Edited February 3, 2016 by saber5055

[Bugs Meany]

I'll reserve judgement on Jennifer; she's kind of cute but who knows what kind of person she is.

 

A nice one. Last week she stepped up and was the first to grab Ben at the cocktail party. The others were happy/proud, and cheered her on! How often does that happen? The most beautiful girl in the cast (not budging on that one) and yet they're rooting for her,

[kia112]

A nice one. Last week she stepped up and was the first to grab Ben at the cocktail party. The others were happy/proud, and cheered her on! How often does that happen? The most beautiful girl in the cast (not budging on that one) and yet they're rooting for her,

Not to say that she's not nice, but I think a lot of that was because they were glad that someone other than Olivia was grabbing him first.

[Padma]

I definitely think it's really odd to get divorced either right before giving birth or immediately after. I figured there had to be a good story there because I think it would take something pretty egregious to make someone make that decision in the time period between deciding to have a baby with someone and the actual delivery of that baby. But then it turns out that the story is the guy was a dick the whole time starting 6 months after the first baby was born so naturally it made the most sense to marry him, have another child, and then get divorced. Amanda seems pretty dim so I guess that kind of decision making isn't surprising.

I haven't wanted to criticize Amanda as a mother, but I really don't understand why she's here. I don't blame her for the divorce because a lot can happen (like cheating) during the ten months that you're pregnant. If infidelity is a deal-breaker, then I could see her getting a divorce as soon as she knew. Maybe it was only in retrospect that the truth came out about how bad he was.

 

What bothers me most about her going on this show is that divorce is very difficult, even on her (3?) year old. She has already gone through a lot of stress with the change, seeing her father once a week, and now her mother just ... goes away... for two months. That's a long time for a child who definitely won't understand why Mommy isn't there. (Also, I know parents who worry something might happen to them while traveling. If it's necessary... okay, but going on a reality television show doesn't seem worth the risk.)

 

Even if I thought she truly wanted to try to find love with Ben and it was worth the real life upset to her daughter (and added work for her parents), by now she should realize she's not a frontrunner, stop playing around and go home to be responsible for the choices she's made. That's harsh, but she was offended by the joke about "Teen Mom" so why not act like an adult and stop playing around?  My understanding is they don't even get paid for doing it unless they're the lead.  She'd be better off taking three months to train for a job that could help support her and her children  (i.e. not acting).  It was okay for a while, but at this point, she really should have eliminated herself.

[Kbilly]

Also, the ombré hair color thing is, like, so 3 years ago.

 

My friend coined the nickname Mombré for Amanda, thought that was pretty clever.

[Alapaki]

What was that semi Pebbles Flintstone thing Becca had on the top of her head? That was just bad.

I always thought they were just called blowjob-handles.

[ByTor]

I always thought they were just called blowjob-handles.

I'll buy that...I guess then Becca could still technically call herself a virgin! Edited February 3, 2016 by ByTor

[poopchute]

I haven't wanted to criticize Amanda as a mother, but I really don't understand why she's here. I don't blame her for the divorce because a lot can happen (like cheating) during the ten months that you're pregnant. If infidelity is a deal-breaker, then I could see her getting a divorce as soon as she knew. Maybe it was only in retrospect that the truth came out about how bad he was.

Yeah that what I thought the story might be, amazing husband who suddenly did something so horrible that you would immediately divorce him upon giving birth. Instead she said he never seemed to make the family a priority and was never there and would rather be out partying. So I'm just confused as to why she would see him acting like that and decide that a second child would definitely eliminate those problems.

[CaughtOnTape]

I don't normally side eye this show because I mean, it's the Bachelor and I know what I'm watching so to side eye the crazy seems a bit redundant.

 

But -

 

I had a real issue with Ben's dismissal of Jubilee.  Sure, this show wasn't the right place for her and she should have realized that she would be competing before she ever went on it, but still.  Nothing she did was that egregious of an offense to send her packing.  They seemed to have great chemistry and she really opened up to him.  To me, it would be natural for her to kind of freak out a bit after that.  The others all seem to have the same insecurity hang ups she did, they just weren't verbalizing it to him.

Which I guess is where the problem lies with this show and why very few couples stick it out after it's over.  He keeps spouting off about how he wants to see them being real with him, but when Jubilee was - dismissed.  Then in the same breath he's lamenting about how Olivia is showing him a different face.  Like WTF dude?

 

If he had been dating Jubilee in the real world, would that have gone down the way it did?  I don't really think it would have.  I think he may have taken a bit more time to make her feel better about the situation or at least be the tiniest but understanding for where her head was.  That seems to me to be what relationships are about.  Not everything is a helicopter date where you're surmising about "This is so great" "OMG how much FUN!".  

 

Ben is no different than any of the others.  He doesn't want a woman who's going to show him who she really is.  He doesn't care.  Lauren B will probably win because she doesn't make waves and pastes the happy, excited, "OMG!!!" smile on her face every time she sees him.  And that's not real.

 

I hope Jubilee finds a decent man who makes her realize that Ben wasn't what she needed/wanted and she's better off.  

 

Have to say, he went down a few notches after this episode.  

[halkatla]

 

Eh, not impressed with Amanda. Her botoxed forehead also distracts me even more than her overuse of "like".

 

So Amanda is the one who says like every other word? I´ve noticed that at least 2 of the women use it a lot, but one of those just goes beyond everything I´ve ever heard and whoever she is, it makes her sound so immature and stupid. I hope it´s not Lauren B since it would be wrong for a nice guy like Ben to like "like" that.

[wovenloaf]

I think Ben himself is the most egregious overuser of "like"! Maybe I just notice it more since we hear him talking more...or maybe I've just become desensitized to women doing it... But particularly when "feelings" are being discussed...he is so, like, deep...like, you know. 

[kia112]

I don't normally side eye this show because I mean, it's the Bachelor and I know what I'm watching so to side eye the crazy seems a bit redundant.

 

But -

 

I had a real issue with Ben's dismissal of Jubilee.  Sure, this show wasn't the right place for her and she should have realized that she would be competing before she ever went on it, but still.  Nothing she did was that egregious of an offense to send her packing.  They seemed to have great chemistry and she really opened up to him.  To me, it would be natural for her to kind of freak out a bit after that.  The others all seem to have the same insecurity hang ups she did, they just weren't verbalizing it to him.

Which I guess is where the problem lies with this show and why very few couples stick it out after it's over.  He keeps spouting off about how he wants to see them being real with him, but when Jubilee was - dismissed.  Then in the same breath he's lamenting about how Olivia is showing him a different face.  Like WTF dude?

 

If he had been dating Jubilee in the real world, would that have gone down the way it did?  I don't really think it would have.  I think he may have taken a bit more time to make her feel better about the situation or at least be the tiniest but understanding for where her head was.  That seems to me to be what relationships are about.  Not everything is a helicopter date where you're surmising about "This is so great" "OMG how much FUN!".  

 

Ben is no different than any of the others.  He doesn't want a woman who's going to show him who she really is.  He doesn't care.  Lauren B will probably win because she doesn't make waves and pastes the happy, excited, "OMG!!!" smile on her face every time she sees him.  And that's not real.

 

I hope Jubilee finds a decent man who makes her realize that Ben wasn't what she needed/wanted and she's better off.  

 

Have to say, he went down a few notches after this episode.  

 

Yes!  And I'm kind of torn on this.  Just because someone shows you their real side doesn't mean you have to like it.  I don't want to put that burden on Ben (or anyone).  However, they did have chemistry and they talked at length about some of her hangups and he assured her that those things don't scare him off.  To me, it seemed as if he was cool with it because he has something in him that's drawn to a "broken bird."  She challenged him on his fake laughing, but he could turn it around to compliment her and make out, so it was all good.

 

Then you have bland Lauren H. -- and there's no chance he will ever move her out of the friend zone -- but she played the part so she gets to stick around.

 

Again, if he didn't want to deal with Jubilee, then he didn't want to deal with Jubilee.  His right.  Certainly his choice.  But when you wax poetic about how you want people to see the real you -- the good, but also the awkward and sometimes ugly parts of you -- but you can't deal when others do the same...I'm narrowing my eyes at you.  Until I see a picture of you with one of my favorite musicians on Twitter.  And you're looking so hot.  Then I'll unnarrow my eyes.

[PamelaMaeSnap]

Just a few thoughts ...

 

I didn't replay it and I deleted the episode, but I thought when Ben came into the room at 4 a.m. to take Amanda on her date, he actually said "whose weave is this?" Is that possible? I no longer trust my memory like I used to.

 

Also on the topic of Amanda, when she was explaining her long, sad story my bet was that her ex was a douchebag but she simply had crazy good chemistry with him ... not sure if she's particularly religious, but if she's religious enough to feel like she should marry her baby daddy but not religious enough to stay a virgin until she gets married (one per show is enough), then if they had a wild hot sex life but things sucked by dawn's early light it would explain a lot, including the two kids.

 

Have we ever heard Leah say anything? At all? IMHO she's the prettiest of the interchangeably-weaved blondes. Why is she still there? I can't help but think if Jubilee hadn't left, Leah would have been the one to go and no one would have ever known she was on the show to start with.

Edited February 3, 2016 by PamelaMaeSnap

[poopchute]

So Amanda is the one who says like every other word? I´ve noticed that at least 2 of the women use it a lot, but one of those just goes beyond everything I´ve ever heard and whoever she is, it makes her sound so immature and stupid. I hope it´s not Lauren B since it would be wrong for a nice guy like Ben to like "like" that.

Amanda was saying "like" every other word on her date with Ben. I also noticed Jubilee saying it often when she was in the hot tub. Lauren B said it a lot in this week's episode too. It's so glaring, I don't know how anyone can have a conversation with any of them. Ben says it often as well so maybe he doesn't notice or care. If I had the patience I would rewatch and count all the likes. It was really out of control this episode.

[MsPH]

Just a few thoughts ...

 

I didn't replay it and I deleted the episode, but I thought when Ben came into the room at 4 a.m. to take Amanda on her date, he actually said "whose weave is this?" Is that possible? I no longer trust my memory like I used to.

 

Indeed it is. I actually saw a funny conversation on Twitter about the weave. Someone asked Amanda whose it was and she said she's pretty sure it was Becca's and Becca replied saying it was JoJo's, since it was on the nightstand by her bed and Becca's was safely put away by hers. JoJo refused to admit it was hers though. Emily piped up to say it definitely wasn't hers. I think they all wear weaves.

[violetr]

It's usually used in a weirdly sexual way, by people who find such a profile attractive.

 

 

Wait, what? I...don't think this is a thing. Unless I'm REALLY out of the loop. 

 

As per usual, I'm the producers' bitch, because they sure do have me hating Olivia. I'm not even enjoying the drama - I just want her gone. Although I *almost* felt bad for her when Emily said she had bad breath. How embarrassing! 

Edited February 4, 2016 by violetr

[ByTor]

Do I not know what a weave is? I thought it was sewn or glued onto the hair, I didn't think it was something that can be removed at will.

[MsPH]

Do I not know what a weave is? I thought it was sewn or glued onto the hair, I didn't think it was something that can be removed at will.

 

I'm pretty sure there are clip-in weaves as well. I guess they are easier, since you can wash your hair normally unlike with proper extensions. I've always wondered how anyone can stand those.

[Ms Blue Jay]

My friend who I watch every week thinks that Ben and Jubilee had sex on their date.  What do you guys think?  Keep in mind that we were turned on by that date and maybe our imaginations went a little wild.  Not sure.

 

Anyways, that imagination adds to why we cannot help sympathize with Jubilee, use of the term "unlovable" or not.

 

I have no problem with Ben breaking up with someone "after the fact", just something about that connection seemed really sweet and we're disappointed, and turned off by his demeanor in that "break up" scene. 

Edited February 3, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[violet and green]

Ben got angry and whiny and petulant with her - it may not have been disrespectful, but I found it utterly inappropriate, and also very telling.

 

He, in effect, said (and may as well have stood up on his haunches and roared): How dare you not smile and simper and bow down to me, woman, do you not know who I am? I AM THE SPATCHELOR! There are ten or eleven, not counting, other interchangeable women over there who are happy to blow smoke up my arse, and you dare, you dare to be unwilling to hold my hand in front of them?

 

I think it will be a good thing when Ben finds himself a meek, mild and sweet young woman who will understand her role is to be deferential to him.

[PhysNerd]

Ben got angry and whiny and petulant with her - it may not have been disrespectful, but I found it utterly inappropriate, and also very telling.

He, in effect, said (and may as well have stood up on his haunches and roared): How dare you not smile and simper and bow down to me, woman, do you not know who I am? I AM THE SPATCHELOR! There are ten or eleven, not counting, other interchangeable women over there who are happy to blow smoke up my arse, and you dare, you dare to be unwilling to hold my hand in front of them?

 

Seeing as how the whole point is to find a woman to marry, it makes sense that he would choose a woman who actually appears to be interested in him.  Jubilee may be verbally saying she likes him, but her body language does not.  He didn't grab her and try to make out with her in front of all of those women.  He simply wanted to hold her hand.  If she didn't even want to do that, then how else is he supposed to interpret that? The way she reacted to him is how I react when some creepy older guy is hitting on me.  She look repulsed by him.

 This isn't a normal dating situation where a man is dating one woman.  He has MANY options.  When someone has many options, they have zero reason to put up with a "difficult" person.  

The one thing anyone can do to make themselves irresistibly attractive is to smile and show that you are having fun.  Pouting doesn't look cute and is definitely a turn off.  At this stage, anyone who wants to marry the bachelor needs to give a good impression.  Being a sourpuss is not the way to anyone's heart.  

[kia112]

He, in effect, said (and may as well have stood up on his haunches and roared): How dare you not smile and simper and bow down to me, woman, do you not know who I am? I AM THE SPATCHELOR! There are ten or eleven, not counting, other interchangeable women over there who are happy to blow smoke up my arse, and you dare, you dare to be unwilling to hold my hand in front of them?

Ha! I didn't quite see it like that, but I can see how you did.

 

I think the hand holding thing was fairly legitimate.  She was in her own head and she was thinking about only herself.  She could have grabbed his hand when they were out of sight, but she didn't (because she probably felt the vibe).  When he brought that up, she kind of stopped short because she knew he had a point.  She didn't try to defend herself.  She conceded.  However, she's definitely proven to him to be attuned to him ("I wanted you to be comfortable today because I think you stress out too much") and during that rose ceremony, she told Jennifer (and others) that she was thinking of ways to make him feel better.  And she did (with some slight producer manipulation).  So it's not like he didn't think she was interested.  I call bull on that.

 

I can't believe that no one brought up Ben's dick move, walking in front of the women on the group date, hand in hand with Lauren B., laughing and saying, "Hey guys" as they were walking off.  I know there was a back way out of there where he didn't have to walk in front of everyone because that's how he took Jubilee out.

[saber5055]

When someone has many options, they have zero reason to put up with a "difficult" person.

 

This cracked me up since that's how so many married people feel any more. Why work on a marriage when they can Tinder their next lay? You want me to take out the garbage? The heck with that. I'm out the door ... and down to the local bar for a pickup.

 

I didn't see the entire Ben-kicks-Jubilee-out thing, but from reading here, I see suggestions that he was a dickweed about it. Even if he did pull a tearless Mesnick on that secluded bench afterward. Funny he didn't show any emotion BEFORE he sent her packing. We just got to see Poor Heartbroken Nicey Nice Ben fake crying afterward.

[leighdear]

One reason the Bachelor amuses me so much is that it so clearly emphasizes how simple men really are.  Simple creatures that don't read minds, don't construct secret ninja methods of silent communication and rarely overthink things 47 steps beyond what's obvious.  The way these women seem to do.  

 

There's a reason the male contestants on the Bachelorette seasons get so many physical dates and competitions. Because they rarely THINK.  *LOL*   B ut that doesn't work with the women.  They compete in their heads, not with their bodies. 

 

I honestly think Ben saw a seemingly unhappy and discontent Jubilee and came to the absolute most BASIC reason for it. She was unhappy & discontented.  Period.  He is not that deep to me.   I think he did exactly what most men would do.  

 

Seriously, I have never known a woman that didn't have a man say at least once "Honey, I cannot read your mind!  Tell me what I did!"  

Edited February 4, 2016 by leighdear

[DriveInSaturday]

Wait, what? I...don't think this is a thing. Unless I'm REALLY out of the loop. 

 

As per usual, I'm the producers' bitch, because they sure do have me hating Amanda. I'm not even enjoying the drama - I just want her gone. Although I *almost* felt bad for her when Emily said she had bad breath. How embarrassing! 

 

Oh dear, maybe it's just an East Coast thing, because there is definitely a sexual angle to it. They use it to describe how hot they find people like, JJ Watt, or something.

 

By Amanda do you mean Olivia, btw? I'm over Amanda, too. It's beyond obvious that Ben doesn't want to deal with a woman with a kid on top of just not being that into her. It was, to be honest, kind of irresponsible to cast the obligatory "kids contestant" when you have a Bachelor as young and immature as Ben is. Relatedly, I would love to see the show plump for a Bachelor in his 40s looking for a woman in her 30s, 40s, or 50s. Not like that would happen because the show is getting increasingly obsessed with eye candy (Ben, and most of the girls there, seem very young and non-marriage-minded).

[TVGlow]

I don't see Ben as being in the wrong for the Jubilee break up, either.

While it's certainly nice to be the one making the decisions, it has got to be exhausting to be "on" every minute of a group date. Forced competitions, bachelorette tension, non-stop interviews. Not that I felt sorry for "how he felt" due to Jubilee's hesitation, but I saw frustration, not apathy.

[DriveInSaturday]

Ben got angry and whiny and petulant with her - it may not have been disrespectful, but I found it utterly inappropriate, and also very telling.

 

He, in effect, said (and may as well have stood up on his haunches and roared): How dare you not smile and simper and bow down to me, woman, do you not know who I am? I AM THE SPATCHELOR! There are ten or eleven, not counting, other interchangeable women over there who are happy to blow smoke up my arse, and you dare, you dare to be unwilling to hold my hand in front of them?

 

I think it will be a good thing when Ben finds himself a meek, mild and sweet young woman who will understand her role is to be deferential to him.

 

This was hilarious, and way too true. Ben really did out himself as something of a tool this ep. Not so different from Chris Soules after all...

[ribboninthesky1]

However, I feel like I have to defend her "attitude" in the Spanish class. I really thought her "you said that to the last four women" comment was meant as a joke, because it seemed like "I love you" (and variations of it) was the only thing he was being told to say in Spanish. When Emily said her "jaw dropped" over that comment, I thought geez, grow a sense of humor. Although I guess some people tend to not take sarcastic humor as it's intended.

 

I thought she was joking as well.  Sarcastic humor can be hit or miss, depending on the delivery and audience.  That's where "reading the room" comes in handy. Then again, the whole segment was edited to high heavens.  For example, I suspect she said something right after that, possibly to indicate she was joking, but it appeared to be cut.  

 

She did appear legitimately unhappy in the evening segment, though. She seemed perceptive about who Ben was really into, so why not leave of your own accord? Don't wait to be dismissed. There's a legitimate time to want reassurance from a man you're dating, but this show ain't it.  It's built on lies and obfuscation until the very end, so expecting a lot of, if any, honesty from the lead, seems like wasted expectations.  Even the F1 is misled to some degree until the end.    

 

I honestly think Ben saw a seemingly unhappy and discontent Jubilee and came to the absolute most BASIC reason for it. She was unhappy & discontented.  Period.  He is not that deep to me.   I think he did exactly what most men would do.

 

Agreed. Per my previous post, I don't think Ben is some special snowflake Bachelor.  He's doing what most of the other Bachelors have done.       

 

Olivia is fascinating to me because she is as awkward as Jubilee, but at the other end of the confidence spectrum. I assume she will be gone next week, so it will be interesting to see if they're the ones dismissed the same night. Still, much like Jubilee and UNLIKE some of the other women, I don't get a catty vibe from her.  I skip over parts of the episodes, so maybe I'm missing something.

[chocolatine]

Relatedly, I would love to see the show plump for a Bachelor in his 40s looking for a woman in her 30s, 40s, or 50s. 

 

Even if TPTB cast an older Bachelor, that doesn't mean they'll cast older women for him. Brad Womack was 38 during his second go-around, and only one of the serious contenders on that season was in her 30s (Michelle Money). His top three were 27-year-old Ashley, 28-year-old Chantal, and 25-year-old Emily. There were contestants as young as 22. That kind of thing can get into icky territory really quickly.

[BellaLugosi]

How was the way Ben let go of Jubilee rude or disrespectful? She asked if he saw a future together and he said no I'm sorry, but i think it's best if we say goodbye. I personally liked that he actually said it with expression rather than the usual monotone phony nice bachelor who really could not care less about the person.

It was rude to me the way he berated her for not holding his hand, and the way he tried to take the easy way out and get her to be the one who says she doesn't see a future. That's his job on the show. He's already had it easy once with Lace. 

[Padma]

I thought she was joking as well.  Sarcastic humor can be hit or miss, depending on the delivery and audience.  That's where "reading the room" comes in handy. Then again, the whole segment was edited to high heavens.  For example, I suspect she said something right after that, possibly to indicate she was joking, but it appeared to be cut.  

of the episodes, so maybe I'm missing something.

I thought she was joking, too, but then ... she wasn't. It wasn't her snarky humor that was the problem, imo, but that she didn't laugh and immediately show she was into it and having fun. I mean, she wasn't first up and exchanging words of love with Ben actually looked like a lot of fun  I give Olivia props for getting the point of it, making it as special and meaningful as possible then spinning for the cameras how hot it all was (and being sincere, imo). That's the way to do it! Even if it's an awkward situation and you're more introverted than Olivia or Lauren B, the good thing about a group date is that you have others to observe and learn from . Have fun with it and show Ben that you like being with him! How hard is that?

 

That said, I liked Jubilee, and since she was no longer a frontrunner I'm glad she could leave sooner rather than later.

 

ETA: I thought Ben was angry and hurt at how she'd been acting all day (moody, cold, withdrawn, grumpy) and not even holding his hand was the final straw, especially since her attitude was still...confused, at best. In a dating show like this, there's no time for all those "difficulties", as someone already said. Unless there was incredible and completely unique chemistry--very unlikely in this show format --I think 99% of the bachelors or b-ette lead would have done the same. I would have, (and I didn't think it was rude or berating her. MMV, I guess).

Edited February 4, 2016 by Padma

[NikSac]

It was rude to me the way he berated her for not holding his hand, and the way he tried to take the easy way out and get her to be the one who says she doesn't see a future. That's his job on the show. He's already had it easy once with Lace.

I actually broke up with a guy for that once, sort of. In my mind it was pretty much over, but I was still a little unsure. He went to grab my hand in a store and I subconsciously pulled away. He flipped out on me for not holding his hand and it was all over, but I was the one to officially end it. Getting yelled at for not holding his hand always stuck with me and I definitely thought about it during this conversation between Ben and Jubilee. I felt like it was time for her to go for her own sake, but I wish it had gone a little differently.

Edited February 4, 2016 by NikSac

[Madding crowd]

I thought Ben seemed a little bit like Ben F and his "tread lightly" when he talked with Jubliee, but she was acting like anything but interested. She must have known that the Spanish phrases were just jokingly said. I would guess that she was joking, but she seems to be one of these women (and we get them every season), who think the Bachelor needs to focus on only them, despite knowing the premise of this show.

 

I always think it is better to let someone go at the end of a date rather than the rose ceremony. If you have already spoke to the person and things aren't going well, nothing can really be gained by having the same conversation at the cocktail party. And I would rather just leave quietly, then be fake comforted by girls smugly holding roses and saying how sad they are I am going away. Of course, some women might want to have one last chance to convince the bachelor.

 

I don't believe for a minute Olivia has any interest in Ben. She wants to be a TV anchor or reporter and she is getting as much exposure as possible. I guess he does have a lot of chemistry with Lauren B but I can never remember anything they have said to each other. I'm also in the minority in that I think Lauren H is pretty and has a killer body. I don't find any of the other women to be beautiful per se, but they are all above average in looks.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Madding crowd

[Canada]

I do find the change in attitude fans now have towards Ben since he sent Jubilee on her way.  It's gone from "oh Ben is so nice, so wonderful, he's the bestest Bachelor eva" to "what a bastard, how dare he send Jubilee home, he's such a jerk, he obviously just wants a fake chick and isn't interested in a relationship at all".  It's all highly entertaining.

[backformore]

It was rude to me the way he berated her for not holding his hand, and the way he tried to take the easy way out and get her to be the one who says she doesn't see a future. That's his job on the show. He's already had it easy once with Lace. 

Yes, the show tells us that HIS job is to decide which one of the women WIN the chance to marry him.  The assumption underlying that is that every woman there wants to marry him.   All he has to do is select the one he wants.  Ben showed that he didn't quite buy that.  He wants the women to also decide whether they want to pursue the relationship or not. 

It's a crazy set-up, if you think about it.  all of the women are supposed to be ready to commit to a man whom they are all dating. 

[Canada]

Of course it's Ben's choice.  He's The Bachelor.  It's kind of in the title of the show.

[AsanteSana]

Amanda the Mother reminds me of bachelorette Emily with daughter Ricki-same voice/manner of speaking.

Lauren B. has this in the bag with JoJo coming in at a close second since these 2 are who Ben appears to wish to hop in the sack with the most. Padma mentioned Lauren B is serene and aloof when hanging with the girls but super attentive to Ben when he's around without stirring up drama... This has historically been how one gets to the breathtaking Neil Lane advertisement at the end.

[leighdear]

This has historically been how one gets to the breathtaking Neil Lane advertisement at the end.

Katherine and Whitney both did that beautifully.  

[BellaLugosi]

I do find the change in attitude fans now have towards Ben since he sent Jubilee on her way.  It's gone from "oh Ben is so nice, so wonderful, he's the bestest Bachelor eva" to "what a bastard, how dare he send Jubilee home, he's such a jerk, he obviously just wants a fake chick and isn't interested in a relationship at all".  It's all highly entertaining.

 

I was meh on him at the beginning and I still am. I think he's boring. I just thought that a not-so-nice side was shown on this episode. 

[Mu Shu]

This cracked me up since that's how so many married people feel any more. Why work on a marriage when they can Tinder their next lay? You want me to take out the garbage? The heck with that. I'm out the door ... and down to the local bar for a pickup.

I didn't see the entire Ben-kicks-Jubilee-out thing, but from reading here, I see suggestions that he was a dickweed about it. Even if he did pull a tearless Mesnick on that secluded bench afterward. Funny he didn't show any emotion BEFORE he sent her packing. We just got to see Poor Heartbroken Nicey Nice Ben fake crying afterward.

But no one is married here. This is an artificial situation where the lead gets to pick and choose between several attractive people, some of who seem fairly well adjusted and can take care of themselves financially. Why keep one around who mopes and thinks she's so deep and unreadable when you have several more options who are likely to be better matches? Lauren H may have a homely face, but she has a positive outlook, a job that's portable, and a body for days. Lauren B is the same, but with a cute face. I liken it to having several good job offers and taking the one that's going to be the worst for you in the long run. You would be very deliberate and make the best possible choice.

But in the real world, few of us are presented with 25 job offers at once and get to pick and choose, no more than we have 25 good looking suitors at our beck and call. However, there are more options than in the past for dating, and desirable people are pickier than ever.

That said, I'm starting to like Lauren H. She's a smart, stable girl who seems fun to be around. And did I mention those legs? And it's not like Ben doesn't have a lazy eye and can be homely him self.

[CaughtOnTape]

Seeing as how the whole point is to find a woman to marry, it makes sense that he would choose a woman who actually appears to be interested in him.  Jubilee may be verbally saying she likes him, but her body language does not.  He didn't grab her and try to make out with her in front of all of those women.  He simply wanted to hold her hand.  If she didn't even want to do that, then how else is he supposed to interpret that? The way she reacted to him is how I react when some creepy older guy is hitting on me.  She look repulsed by him.

 This isn't a normal dating situation where a man is dating one woman.  He has MANY options.  When someone has many options, they have zero reason to put up with a "difficult" person.  

The one thing anyone can do to make themselves irresistibly attractive is to smile and show that you are having fun.  Pouting doesn't look cute and is definitely a turn off.  At this stage, anyone who wants to marry the bachelor needs to give a good impression.  Being a sourpuss is not the way to anyone's heart.  

 

Well if you are having fun, then yes, show that.  However, if you're in your own head and not having fun...why would you fake it?  That makes zero sense to me.  Basically, what is being said here, is that you should never show any emotion other than happiness to the Bachelor.  Even though he's asking for you to be real with him.  Talk about mind reading....

 

She was upset and in her own head.  She wasn't feeling it and therefore was pulling back into a safe zone which unfortunately included making it seem like she wasn't interested in him.

 

This cracked me up since that's how so many married people feel any more. Why work on a marriage when they can Tinder their next lay? You want me to take out the garbage? The heck with that. I'm out the door ... and down to the local bar for a pickup.

 

A little louder for the people in the back.

 

One reason the Bachelor amuses me so much is that it so clearly emphasizes how simple men really are.  Simple creatures that don't read minds, don't construct secret ninja methods of silent communication and rarely overthink things 47 steps beyond what's obvious.  The way these women seem to do.  

 

There's a reason the male contestants on the Bachelorette seasons get so many physical dates and competitions. Because they rarely THINK.  *LOL*   B ut that doesn't work with the women.  They compete in their heads, not with their bodies. 

 

I honestly think Ben saw a seemingly unhappy and discontent Jubilee and came to the absolute most BASIC reason for it. She was unhappy & discontented.  Period.  He is not that deep to me.   I think he did exactly what most men would do.  

 

Seriously, I have never known a woman that didn't have a man say at least once "Honey, I cannot read your mind!  Tell me what I did!"  

 

Ben spent a good portion of the night after his and Jubliee's date spouting off to the camera about how she was complicated and he was down for it.  She opened up to him and gave him ample reason to understand what her hang ups were.  He went into a bathroom to watch her breakdown and did a rather excellent job of calming her down.  And suddenly she doesn't hold his hand and he plays stupid?

Sorry but nope.

His whining about her not holding his hand and how that was supposed to make HIM feel...really?  He couldn't have dug a little deeper?  It screamed laziness to me.  

He basically proved her suspicions correct.  He soldified in her head that she's too fucked up for anyone to love because no one will take the time to get past her defenses to see where she's really coming from.  The reason I am disappointed in how he dismissed her was because he gave the impression he was going to be that person for her.  And instead he just fell into the consistent behavior of every other Bachelor by making it all about him and suggesting that a woman who show him anything other than happiness is unworthy of attention. 

 

I guess I shouldn't be surprised considering that's how this show usually goes, but Ben seemed different when it started so I hoped he might buck the trend.  It's sad to see he's just like all the others.

Edited February 4, 2016 by CaughtOnTape

[Ms Blue Jay]

I was meh on him at the beginning and I still am. I think he's boring. I just thought that a not-so-nice side was shown on this episode. 

 

Yeah, agreed, this is the first season of The Bachelor I've watched so I definitely didn't declare him the best and I've never spelt it "eva".

[jmonkey]

I'm also bummed to see Jubilee go. I loved her and her deadpan sense of humor that made the other ladies freak out. I found her awkwardness refreshing in a way similar to Sharleen who was my favorite character to ever appear on TB. Initially I was hoping Jubilee would go far enough to be considered for TB, but she's too real for a Fleiss production. You have to believe in fairy tales to a extent to be successful on this show and have to be able to accept the idea that TB is developing relationships with several women simultaneously. I got the impression Jubilee thought this process was a bunch of bullshit and she refused to play the game the rest of the contestants played. She didn't have to get along with the other women, but she had to be a good soldier and at least be fake with Ben. She couldn't do that, and I don't think even BIP would be a good fit for her. She needs to meet someone IRL and forget about this show. I can't imagine a war veteran with a body like that would have any problems finding suitors. I don't understand how the other contestants were so shocked that Jubilee got eliminated considering they were so appalled by her cold demeanor towards Ben. 

 

I know I'm in the minority here, but I want Olivia to stay on this show. She plays the game hard and makes for good trainwreck TV. I think this season would be extremely boring without her. It's even kinda boring with her. She has already blown up her career Andi Dorfman style, so let's see how insane and delusional she can before Ben (or the producers) decide she must leave. I really don't understand how she got a rose given how disgusted Ben seems with her antics, but this storyline is all too familiar on this show. There always seems to be the villain who all the contestants hate, but TB, for some reason, likes. Heck, Courtney was that villain on Ben Flajnik's season and she won. I don't think Olivia will win or has any aspirations outside of a recurring role on BIP, but I also don't believe Ben will take back the rose. That would be an unprecedented move that I don't see Ben making, and I think Olivia will say the right things to keep her crazy self in the game. I definitely believe that Olivia has halitosis. She even said herself she has "dragon" morning breath. She really does seem like the type of girl who could burp the alphabet, and I think it would behoove TB to keep her on the show as long as possible so she can further embarrass herself. 

Edited February 4, 2016 by jmonkey

[Sheenieb]

I'm fine with Jubilee being eliminated as well. I didn't dislike her, but her insecurities were too much. It was uncomfortable watching it on tv, so I can only imagine how much of a storm cloud she must've been up close. Perhaps she was edited to be morose, but as Heather B. said on the first season of The Real World, "the editors use what you give them."

 

I'm sure she had her lighthearted moments, but no one wants to deal with someone who constantly needs reassurance and hand holding. Most people aren't happy 24/7, and no one is expecting her to be screechy and jumping up and down when Ben's around like she's a Top Model hamster, but her sullen look and whining about him making out with other women was annoying. Next time, watch the previous seasons before you audition. That shouldn't have been a surprise. This isn't season one.

 

Now as a black woman myself, I picked up on her probably being uncomfortable because she's the only black woman left surrounded by a sea of interchangeable blonds, but it's too bad that she didn't realize that she already stood out. On their 1:1 date, Ben seemed to 'get' her humor, but where she messed up was letting her insecurities take over. She let it get to a point where she seemed disinterested. To end on a Chris Rock note, "a man is only as faithful as his options."

[yorklee2]

 

I do find the change in attitude fans now have towards Ben since he sent Jubilee on her way.  It's gone from "oh Ben is so nice, so wonderful, he's the bestest Bachelor eva" to "what a bastard, how dare he send Jubilee home, he's such a jerk, he obviously just wants a fake chick and isn't interested in a relationship at all".  It's all highly entertaining.

I think the thing for me was that before Ben's date with Jubilee I thought he was attractive and articulate but really not much different than any other Bachelor we had seen before. In his date with Jubilee though he actually acted as though he was looking for something more real and substantial. It seemed like a real world date complete with accepting flaws and enjoying that she was wasn't just some cookie cutter cute, meek, fake clone like many of the women who appear on this show.

 

A poster mentioned that they didn't think for one minute that Olivia was really into Ben. I agree and that's my point. I don't think many of these women are but Jubilee honestly seemed to be. That's the irony of this show though. For me, and I think possibly other viewers, it allowed us to think there may be hope of some sincerity in this for the most part fake entertainment show. So it was kind of a let down that Ben really wasn't that much different after all.

Edited February 4, 2016 by yorklee2

[Canada]

I'm sorry, I wasn't picking on anyone in particular with my post about people changing their minds about Ben.  It was just a general observation, mainly based on Twitter postings.

 

I've never thought Ben was any different from any other Bachelor in the past and I couldn't understand why people thought he was so great.  I think he's like the vast majority of people who appear on this show, and others like it, in that he's looking for attention and fun.  I've never bought the idea that he's a pure Christian boy who just wants to sit and hold hands with a lady while having deep and meaningful conversations on the road to finding a wife.  I don't think Ben wants complicated and deep.  I think he wants to make out with a bunch of 'hot' chicks, get free stuff, and become 'famous'.

[Lemons]

Olivia is fascinating to me because she is as awkward as Jubilee, but at the other end of the confidence spectrum.

 

It is fascinating to see the differences in people's confidence levels and wonder why.  What makes creepy Olivia so confident?  What makes pretty Jubilee lack confidence?  It's not always fair.