S01.E10: Childish Things

[MarkHB]

Kara does her best to support Winn when his father, the supervillain Toyman, breaks out of prison and seeks out his son for unknown reasons. Also, Cat offers Lucy a job at CatCo and Alex asks Hank to use his powers to help uncover Maxwell Lord’s plans.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CajoDlrmOuw

[MarkHB]

A couple of Sneak Peeks for this episode:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0OU2V9wbJM

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wy3Vbde8mA

 

(I've seen a third, with Cat talking to Lucy, but it doesn't appear to be on Youtube).

[secnarf]

Here is the link for the third:

 

The same person who put up that video also put up the first and second ones, and those links are accessible to people outside of the US.

[AimingforYoko]

It was nice to see Kara using her noggin in concert with her powers. She's no Batman or anything, but she's getting better. Unlike her sister.

I guess Manhunter doesn't have a power setting on those mindwipe powers, no wonder he felt bad.

[Big Mother]

I still don't know who is that girl who's in Maxwell's lair? and is Hank safe?

[quarks]

Cat wasn't in this episode much, but was still my favorite part of the show.

 

I get that they wanted to play Hank/Martian Manhunter's terrible impersonation of Maxwell Lord for laughs, and to clue the audience in to who that really was, and I realize that Maxwell and Hank have very different personalities, but, come on, show. You just told us in the script that Hank has been wandering around earth, impersonating various humans, for at least 50 years, and for the last several years has managed to convince any number of highly trained agents that he's actually Hank Hanshaw, a real life human being with a history, and I'm expected to believe he'd be caught out by a security guard in seconds? I know it's the trope, but still.

 

I expect it's wrong to say that I like Toyman more than Wynn, but I'll just go ahead and say it: I like Toyman more than Wynn.

[secnarf]

That was interesting. Nice to see a bit more depth to Hank, and why he doesn't use his powers much.

I'm not really intrigued by the girl, though. I hope she gets more interesting!

 

MM as Max Lord was pretty funny - I could practically hear Hank's voice coming through.

 

Really couldn't care less about Lucy.

 

Nice to see Emma Caulfield! Of course, I half-expected her to start singing about evil bunnies, but there you go. I wish they'd put in a toy bunny just for her.

I'm not sure where they can take Winn from here. I can't see Kara suddenly deciding she wants to date him, and if he is insistent that they can't just be friends, I suspect I'm going to grow very tired of the storyline soon, although I liked that Winn got a chance to be more interesting in this episode.

 

Side note - I have a friend who had/has a stalker, and it started off kind of similar to Kara/Winn. They were friends, then he wanted more and she didn't, and he made multiple speeches about how much he loves her and will do anything for her and can't accept them just being friends when he wants so much more, and next thing you know, he's completely unstable and stalking her, in real life and online. Needless to say, I hope they don't go this route with Winn and Kara.

[Big Mother]

There was so much sadness in this episode, it left me really weepy. No comical moments to laugh at.

 

Hank was very out of character here. seriously? He would shimmy through a door, and change into Hank, knowing full well that there are probably hidden cameras everywhere?

[Artsda]

I really liked the episode. I loved seeing more back story into Winn and his not wanting to bottle feelings inside to blow like his father. 

 

I liked Alex and Max's banter and date. Even though he's bad, they have great chemistry together in their scenes. 

 

I find Lucy a much better and interesting character than Jimmy. So I'm glad to see her and Cat in scenes, as well as her get a job. 

[cambridgeguy]

Those agents weren't messing around, were they?  The Schotts would have been bullet riddled corpses if it wasn't for cleverness (senior) and Kara (junior). 

 

Not that it would have made a difference this time but perhaps Kara shouldn't walk around in her Supergirl suit while hanging out in her gigantic apartment with huge windows?  Even a normal person would have to worry about some creep with a telescope or binoculars taking a peek.

[Katydid]

I really enjoyed it. So happy they finally gave Jeremy something to work with. I agree though that it's hard to see where Winn will go from here.

[tennisgurl]

Max Lord continues his descent into "Muahahah" villainy. Its too bad. He and Alex have good chemistry, and if he wasn't so evil, I could get behind them becoming a thing.  

 

At least the truth about Winn and his Kara thing is out there. I have not been a huge fan of his, but I did warm to him in this episode, now that he has something to do other than moon over Kara and be kinda a jerk about it. I thought he was much more likable this week, even in his attempt to kiss Kara. Where will he go from here? 

[ottoDbusdriver]

Not that it would have made a difference this time but perhaps Kara shouldn't walk around in her Supergirl suit while hanging out in her gigantic apartment with huge windows?  Even a normal person would have to worry about some creep with a telescope or binoculars taking a peek.

 

So much this.

[MsNewsradio]

I've been a pretty big Supergirl apologist to my friends, but even I was cringing at the enormous logic gaps in this episode.

1) the FBI allows Kara to accompany Winn (don't care how he said he only would help with her there) but leaves her alone with the practically unseen driver of their van as they storm the building?

2) Why would Winn even insist on Kara being present? She could have easily followed AS SUPERGIRL and used her hearing/x-Ray vision to keep appraised of what was happening. As it stands she and Winn deliberately put her in a position where she'd have to risk others seeing her become Supergirl or have to come up with an unnecessary lie to get away from the FBI.

3) The fact that Toyman's old boss wasn't immediately under surveillance, approached, or protected by the FBI despite being the intended target of his last kill and the reason he ended up in jail.

4) Almost everything with Hank/J'onn infiltrating Lord Tech this episode. Cracking the jokes he did as "Lord" were entertaining, but you can't tell me he'd legit risk an op by speaking "out of character" to an employee. Nor that he'd get found out so quickly to be an imposter by the guard, who has no reason to suspect he is anyone other than Lord. OR that he'd shift back from being Lord to being Hank while there was any risk of being caught on camera (I know there was a line from Lord's employee about the main cameras being wiped, but the idea that with what J'onn has learned from years of posing as Hank coupled with what they know about Lord, that neither J'onn nor Alex thought about Lord having backup cameras, bugs, or anything of that ilk is just grade A stupid writing).

5) Alex not thinking Lord would try to pull one over on her - y'know, just like she was trying to do to him.

I've been able to hand wave a lot with this show, but I was having serious trouble this week.

I DID like the show acknowledging why J'onn feels he is better off as Hank rather than himself. Kara's chipper "be yourself" pep talk at the episode's start seemed incredibly naive, and I'm glad that when Alex echoed the same sentiment he gently corrected her - a big reason Superman and Supergirl are able to be accepted by the public is because they look like (very attractive) humans. J'onn is unlikely to get the same reception, at least initially, due to his appearance alone. (Not to mention the complications from him posing as a dead man in a government organization for years). Also liked seeing the effects of the mind wipe, which gives a good explanation as to why he'd be hesitant to use that power.

[shapeshifter]

I guess Manhunter doesn't have a power setting on those mindwipe powers, no wonder he felt bad.

Didn't Tess from Roswell claim she didn't mean to wipe Alex's mind so completely? Maybe that's a mind warp trope?

[Cthulhudrew]

I liked this episode. Definitely one of the stronger ones, IMO.

 

I agree that Kat probably had the best scene/line. "That girl should be paying me by the hour."

 

Hank's little talk with Max's female assistant was kind of funny, yet a bit too much for someone trying to impersonate somebody else. I agree that he should be better at this sort of thing by this time, and his observation of human behavior and mannerisms should be more polished than saying "I'm going to rethink my life choices." Maybe if the actress he was playing against had laughed as if she'd taken "Max's" statement as a joke rather than just choosing to seem confused, the scene would have come across better. (Oh, and I hate that they have to show his eyes glowing so many times, as if the audience is completely unsophisticated and unable to put two and two together that this isn't Max.)

 

I, too, hope they don't go too far down the tired and true "friend zone" well with Winn and Kara. I get so tired of seeing that whole angsty crap played out time and again (on tv and in real life). If you can't live without someone as a lover, then IMO, you never really cared about them as a friend. If you're too scared to confess your feelings or if they aren't reciprocated, then you are the one with the burden of living with them, and all this "I'm going to confess and force the object of my affections to make a tough choice" stuff is just so much b.s. It's childish at best and manipulation at worst, and neither reflects very well on the person making the confession, nor on how much they really value the relationship. Find a hobby, go online and look at porn, find some way of sublimating your baser lusts, or be a real man/woman/person and admit to yourself that the only thing that really mattered to you about the other person is your attraction, and all the rest was just a way of hopefully getting their affection for yourself, and do both you and them a favor and move on. Friendship is not some sort of lesser good than romance. Yeesh.

 

No, I don't have any particularly strong feelings about that sort of thing. :|

 

Anyway, just my long-winded way of saying that I hope that some day shows start to deal with these matters in a less cliched, more nuanced way (and that Supergirl makes that choice, rather than going the tried and "true" easy route.)

 

I liked that they didn't really try to have Winn's dad really try to justify his actions rationally, but made it pretty clear that he's just a nutcase. It's almost a throwback to the old, simplistic characterizations of the comic source material, rather than all of these more recent post-Watchman behavioral profiling stories. Which makes it sort of refreshing.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Yet again, someone needs to remind TV writers that that is NOT how sprinkler systems work.

 

Supergirl struggling against the quicksand was just plain stupid.

 

So, at what point in her date was Lorde able to attach that camera to Alex's purse ?  Because they never showed him handling her purse.

[Cthulhudrew]

So, at what point in her date was Lorde able to attach that camera to Alex's purse ?  Because they never showed him handling her purse.

 

Maybe when she excused herself to the ladies' room to spit out the snails? *dunno*

 

BTW, do people do that in real life? Eat something, comment on how good it is, and then spit it up when they are told? Or does that just happen in bad sitcoms and tv? (A shame, too, because that scene didn't need a cheesy bit like that to make it work.)

[thuganomics85]

For an episode heavily focused on Winn, I surprisingly didn't dislike it as much as I thought.  Probably because whatever writing issues it might have had, Jeremy Jordan carried it well.  Plus, it's always good seeing Henry Czerny.  Wouldn't mind seeing Crazy Dad show up again.

 

I'm glad Winn finally told Kara how he really feels, but I worry there are only two ways for this to go, and neither one I'm wild about. Either Kara will suddenly develop feelings back, which I would find lame and unbelievable, or she'll rebuke him for good, and this will set Winn down a future villain path.  Either way, none of them are compelling me to get invested in his character.

 

Chyler Leigh looked great in that dress, but I'm not a fan of Alex basically getting played by Maxwell.  Of course, maybe Kara shouldn't just be randomly hanging out in their apartment while dressed as Supergirl.  Time to invest in a lair.  Sneak over to The CW and ask Barry and Oliver for tips (but don't listen to any security ones, because they are useless in that department.)

 

Lucy is now working for Cat and Catco (setting up Jenna Dewan Tatum as a future regular?), which makes Jimmy all pissy, because it makes him realize he hates his current position and wants to be back out in the field.  That was a waste of time.

 

Hank using his mind-control powers was interesting, and the guilt over what he had to do.  Hank pretending to be Maxwell was on the broad side of things, but I was impressed over how Peter Facinelli really seemed to nail down the way David Harewood speaks in this role.

[HunterHunted]

I'm choosing to believe that the purse camera is a micro robot that crawled up and attached itself to Alex's purse.

[piperkat]

Shut up, Winn. Just...shut UUUUUPPPPP.

I'm am so tired of Winn and his pissy little "unrequited love" face. I was honestly hoping that he would either die or follow his daddy to the dark side, just so I don't have to see him pining and scowling anymore.

"What did I do?" Kara, you did nothing. Winn apparently just stopped maturing when his father went to prison and now he's an overgrown 11 year old, trying to make you feel guilty because he didn't get what he wanted. 

 

Agree that Kara should not just be sitting around on the couch in her costume. It's not like she can't instantly change into sweats literally the second she gets in the door. :)  Also, given that both Supergirl and an agent for a secret government agency live there, you'd think they'd invest in some counter-surveillance gear. 

 

Everyone tonight had a case of the stupids. Kara should have checked the box to see if there was a human inside (x-ray vision, super hearing to hear a heartbeat, something). She also should have whipped around the warehouse to look for Crazy Dad instead of just walking in like a normal person and yelling out his name.  J'onn was acting like an amateur. Alex should have changed clothes at the base and had her clothing/bags scanned. Winn should have texted Kara about the bombs so she could find them before he got on stage. Does NO ONE remember Kara has super-speed?

 

The show had been getting better over the last few episodes--I hope this was a one-off. 

[twoods]

Loved the Winn backstory, and him being freaked out that he will turn into his dad. Well acted. His dad was so creepy, so who else could be more perfect for the job than Conrad from Revenge.

Glad that Winn finally told Kara the truth, and I sensed some chemistry in their scenes today. Tired of Kara pining after Jimmy.

Alex and Max have amazing chemistry but too bad he's the villain. Poor Hank! Traumatized by wiping that guy's memory.

Emma Cauldfield! Hope we see more of her because I miss seeing her on my TV.

Edited January 19, 2016 by twoods

[cynic]

When we first got to see the Toyman's face, I was like "Tom Brokaw is the Toyman!". That probably was just me.

 

I'm not a fan of Winn, but it was nice to see him get some development anyway. I really appreciate that this show seems to understand that people besides the lead need to be fleshed out (looking at you, The Flash). I agree with those of you that think that his confession does leave the character in a bind. I really hope the show doesn't have Kara fall for him now. Considering how nasty and butthurt he was about her and Jimmy and how he unloads on her this episode, I could never root for them. 

 

I'm actually starting to like Lucy and her relationship with Jimmy. It's too bad that he has a crush on Kara, because I could get behind them as a couple who learn how to talk out their issues. The "old white guys" line was super jarring though. I like that the show is progressive. I wish they would stop hammering me over the head with it with clunky dialogue.

 

Super lucky how the Toyman planted bombs everywhere except the stage, where he knew his target would be standing. :/

Edited January 19, 2016 by cynic

[statsgirl]

This show has a good cast and they deliver every week. And then Henry Czerny shows up and just blows them out of the water.  Toyman was over the top crazy and yet I understood perfectly how he was feeling and what he wanted.

 

I loved Cat's scene with Lucy, it was just the right tone for both characters..  I didn't like Cat skywriting for us that Jimmy and Kara have feelings for each other in an episode heavy on the Winn/Kara and Jimmy/Lucy fronts.  I felt sorry for both Winn and Kara, who didn't ask for this so well done, everyone.  I didn't like the Lucy/Jimmy scenes because that is such a dysfunctional relationship at this point. I get it, they don't want to tie up Jimmy so they can still have their Winn/Kara/Jimmy triangle but Jimmy and Lucy have terrible communication.  She wants more and he seems to be trying to keep her at a distance until he's forced to let her in.

 

I liked Hank's dilemma and how much he hated what he had to do. (Why didn't he just go for the temporal lobe instead of the whole frontal cortex? That way the guard would have been able to keep his old memories.)  It's a real strength of the show that it develops multiple characters, not just the titular one.

 

It bothered me that Kara didn't change into at home clothes before sitting on the couch to watch TV.  Unless she's got an amazing cleaner somewhere, that Supergirl outfit has to be pretty yucky by now, especially after the quicksand.

 

Speaking of the quicksand, I wondered why Kara just didn't spin herself around and emerge out of it like a corkscrew.  I guess freezing it worked too but she really shouldn't have fallen for the trick of a toy in the box because hey, he's The Toyman.

 

I didn't recognize Emma Caulfield. She must be really wondering when she'll actually get a chance to do something on this show.

[Agent Dark]

Interesting to see Cameron Chase (the FBI agent after Toyman) in the show - in the comics she's actually a DEO agent, investigating metahumans and trying to uncover their identities for the DEO with Batman, Batwoman and Martian Manhunter being notable targets of her investigations.  She had a short lived miniseries that was pretty good (the artwork was done by JH Williams III who also did the phenomenal artwork for the Batwoman run of Detective Comics, as well as the first few arcs of Batwoman's own series in the New52).  She was also a supporting character in the Kate Spencer Manhunter comic (not to be confused with The Martian Manhunter!).

 

Chase actually has a power of her own, one that dampens the abilities of metahumans around her.  Its something she's not really aware of though, since it happens more subconsciously.  With her comic book ties to the DEO, as well as her run ins with J'onn J'onzz, it'll be interesting to see if the show has more in the works for her character.  Perhaps down the track when J'onn is revealed and he can no longer run the DEO, Chase and her boss, Director Bones, might step up to the DEO.

 

Weird that they made her a brunette though, when she's blonde in the comics and the actress is blonde I think too?

Edited January 19, 2016 by Agent Dark

[VCRTracking]

Anya from Buffy as blonde but that was more than a decade ago. Maybe Emma Caulfield changed her hair since?

 

Jeremy Jordan and Henry Czerny do look like they could be related so that was great casting.

 

Alex looked amazing on her date with Max.

[shapeshifter]

Side note - I have a friend who had/has a stalker, and it started off kind of similar to Kara/Winn. They were friends, then he wanted more and she didn't, and he made multiple speeches about how much he loves her and will do anything for her and can't accept them just being friends when he wants so much more, and next thing you know, he's completely unstable and stalking her, in real life and online. Needless to say, I hope they don't go this route with Winn and Kara.

I don't manage to see this show every week, but it sure seemed like they were setting him up to be a super villain and the other guy to be the final love interest. Yeah, I didn't like it either. I would prefer the two guys get together for a change, heh.

[BooBear]

I'm not sure where they can take Winn from here. I can't see Kara suddenly deciding she wants to date him, and if he is insistent that they can't just be friends, I suspect I'm going to grow very tired of the storyline soon, although I liked that Winn got a chance to be more interesting in this episode.

Agreed. I liked the episode but it left a bad taste in my mouth because there is no place for Winn to go but a bad guy.  I also don't quite understand how Kara can care so much for Will where she was grabbing his hand and pleading with him but then, not enough to even consider a kiss. She wasn't particularly sensitive there.  I also hate James so Will seems like a reasonable option. I don't like them making Max Lord such a lame villain. I think he and Alex have some good chemistry and the show should exploit that. Either Max or Alex should legitimately fall for the other and be torn.   Right now looks like they are keeping it superficial.

 

I do like Cat but Lucy Lane has her general counsel? Really? What does a former Army lawyer know about the publishing world. I like Lucy but I don't look forward to any story where a woman has a such a douche for a boyfriend. 

[maczero]

I get that they wanted to play Hank/Martian Manhunter's terrible impersonation of Maxwell Lord for laughs, and to clue the audience in to who that really was, and I realize that Maxwell and Hank have very different personalities, but, come on, show. You just told us in the script that Hank has been wandering around earth, impersonating various humans, for at least 50 years, and for the last several years has managed to convince any number of highly trained agents that he's actually Hank Hanshaw, a real life human being with a history, and I'm expected to believe he'd be caught out by a security guard in seconds? I know it's the trope, but still.

I can somewhat buy it.  Hank was in a bit of a moral dilemma.  He could have stayed in character and let the girl remain in Lord's custody or he could've had her transferred.  He chose the latter.  The guard was perceptive enough to know that this was an important project and Lord would've never let something like this go public.  Not to mention, Lord's facilities were attacked by aliens a few days ago so there was another reason for the guard to believe something weird was up with his boss.

 

Now the business with Hank using his disguise to burn Maxwell Lord in front of Lord's assistant was dumb. 

 

Maybe when she excused herself to the ladies' room to spit out the snails? *dunno*

 

BTW, do people do that in real life? Eat something, comment on how good it is, and then spit it up when they are told? Or does that just happen in bad sitcoms and tv? (A shame, too, because that scene didn't need a cheesy bit like that to make it work.)

It happened to me in real life.  I tried chitterlings when I was a kid.  I thought they were great until they told me what they were.  That meal came right back up in seconds. 

[sjohnson]

Once again, everything DEO bored me. It couldn't even muster enough of my interest to irritate me. I just wandered into the kitchen and nearly didn't come back.

 

As for the mangled half hour left? Winn says being a coward is why his father held it all until he snapped and went nuts. At the same time he's worried about his genes snaring him, so that any fit of temper can suddenly turn into a bombing plot. Since neither makes a lick of sense, it means either the character is already manifesting irrational thinking. Or the writers are clueless about mental illnesses.

 

On the first, since a mechanical genius doesn't have to be crazy to take out his enemies with a bomb, he just has to be ruthless, there's no particular reason to think the man was crazy. At least this would explain why he's in a prison rather than a locked ward. But forcing your son to kill someone so you can bond with them is more than just a mistake in relationship building, it's just plain nuts. There is no reason in it, not even bad reasoning. So I guess the dude is insane, which really makes the cops look pretty bloodthirsty. Ick. 

 

On the second, the last time I looked schizophrenia is the only major mental illness with a heritable component. But it's not as heritable as diabetes. Someone with diabetes in the family might want to try very hard to keep the weight down. And someone with mental illness in the family might want to duck dysfunctional relationships with someone who wants you to be their GBF when you aren't G. 

 

But perhaps it's more a matter of Supergirl wanting someone who really knows and accepts her Kara Danvers personality around? She's still clinging to that personality like a teen ager keeping their favorite stuffed toy or blanket. They don't really want it now, they just want to have it. Either way is bad news for Winn, who just needs to leave. Lip service to notions of human equality left aside, Supergirl is way too hot and too high status for Winn. There's no grand passion that justifies itself by sweeping the two off their feet. The only reason for having an interest in Winn is that he loved Kara Danvers. But it's Supergirl now. And it's James, the really hot guy who is famous, who loves Supergirl. Two hot, high status people, it's like two magnets locking together, no distasteful premeditation about what the sex would be like, just going with the flow. 

 

They can get miscellaneous extras from DEO to do the necessary hacking etc. that has been Winn's function in the stories. The dude should be written out.

[Kromm]

I don't get it.  Why would ANYONE allow Toyman to have toys in his cell? IT MAKES NO SENSE!

 

"A Time To Soar"? Oh come on, Lois. What an annoying book title.

 

Also me no understand why John/Hank assumes there are no cameras at LordCo, or whatever that place is called. Or at least more than the obvious ones.

 

I won't say this was total crap, but I do hate there are some obvious dumb things they could have avoided so easily.

 

I was amused that Toyman seems to think that if he and his son both wind up in prison, they'd "be together".  Because apparently the same prison that let him have/build toys in his cell might perhaps allow him to have a roomie, right?

[shapeshifter]

Maybe when she excused herself to the ladies' room to spit out the snails? *dunno*

BTW, do people do that in real life? Eat something, comment on how good it is, and then spit it up when they are told? Or does that just happen in bad sitcoms and tv? (A shame, too, because that scene didn't need a cheesy bit like that to make it work.)

It happened to me in real life. I tried chitterlings when I was a kid. I thought they were great until they told me what they were. That meal came right back up in seconds.

It happened to me as a kid the same way with tongue. But snail eggs? I too would smell a camera-planting plot device, but I don't recall her getting up from the table (which is way better than barfing into a napkin. I felt bad enough as a little kid throwing up dinner in my aunt's toilet).

I was amused that Toyman seems to think that if he and his son both wind up in prison, they'd "be together".  Because apparently the same prison that let him have/build toys in his cell might perhaps allow him to have a roomie, right?

Over 50% of the incarcerated in the US are mentally ill, so while I too was rolling my eyes at that speech, it was probably the most realistic moment in the episode. Edited January 19, 2016 by shapeshifter

[Kromm]

As much as I disliked most of this episode and saw so many unnecessary stupid moments in it, I do have to laud the ending. But there's a danger in outing all of their secrets to Max Lord. I mean how's it going to be believable at ALL if he doesn't completely raze them to the ground with this info?  There's literally no reasonable way to stop him--even killing him (if Supergirl did that kind of thing) or John mindwiping him doesn't do the trick, because a guy like Max Lord will have redundant data backups and automatic failsafes in place with information like that which will be setup to play out automatically if he doesn't check in on them.  There's really no credible way to put things back in Pandora's box once a Max Lord finds out your secrets.  I mean maybe... counter-blackmail might be about it... but even then I'd be skeptical he wouldn't instead just switch his villainy to an overt level the way Lex Luthor inevitably always does. 

And really he knows everything with this.  Who Supergirl is out of uniform. Who to leverage to get to her. That Hank is also some person named John and that he has to by deduction be the person who impersonated Max and memory wiped his guard. 

[Jediknight]

Of course, maybe Kara shouldn't just be randomly hanging out in their apartment while dressed as Supergirl.  Time to invest in a lair.  Sneak over to The CW and ask Barry and Oliver for tips (but don't listen to any security ones, because they are useless in that department.

And for Zod's sake listen to Cisco about the wiring and how to set everything up. I can't stress that enough, listen to Cisco.

 

Don't make Winn turn into a villain.  Have him rise above his father, and when Kara rejects him, they remain friends.  Make him the Toyman that's a good guy.

[Primetimer]

When her best friend's supervillain dad breaks out of prison, Kara has to take a Schott.

Read the story

[Kromm]

And for Zod's sake listen to Cisco about the wiring and how to set everything up. I can't stress that enough, listen to Cisco.

 

Don't make Winn turn into a villain.  Have him rise above his father, and when Kara rejects him, they remain friends.  Make him the Toyman that's a good guy.

This may not technically be on The CW, but it's still got a lot of that heritage. That means if he's on the hero squad, at the very least he's got to turn to someone else, and only then does Kara realize she has feelings for him.  That plotline didn't really work with James because she'd known him for about 2 minutes when Lucy showed up.

[Chicago Redshirt]

Dumb things, questions and other running thoughts from this episode:

 

Putting aside Toyman shouldn't have been able to create the Yo-Yo of doom in prison and that guards really shouldn't fall for the old prisoner-playing possum trick, that blade didn't look like it could be fatal.

 

Martian Manhunter calls his flight with Supergirl "his one chance to instruct her in proper flight technique." First of all, why can't he instruct her whenever he wants to? Second, it didn't seem that a) she has been doing poorly in flight technique up to now or b) he was actually instructing her.

 

Alex's bringing up the notion of whether Jimmy's intel can be trusted...why? I guess she doesn't know necessarily that J'onn would trust Jimmy, but since she and SG do, if anything, she should have been like "We trust his intel."

 

Cat is going to recruit someone for her general counsel who has never practiced corporate law, let alone media law?

 

Winn shuts off a news report in what is a newsroom.Riiiight.

 

Supergirlverse Toyman has apparently committed the one bombing and been in prison for, let's say, about a dozen years. So I wonder we are to assume he hasn't crossed paths with SM.

 

The notion of someone as crazy inventive as Toyman not realizing he could simply make a fortune with his inventions rather than turn to murder over them being stolen...bleh.

 

I will give props for the doll Toyman left being a shout-out to the Legion of Doom Toyman. But how did he sneak it into Catco? Van Kull is supposed to be outside Metropolis. So he would have had to cross the country to get to National City. Was Winn just lying about Toyman not knowing where to look, or is Toyman just that good?

 

The Lucy/Jimmy fight...I can't even.

 

So good thing the FBI in SGverse can fire on someone who is apparently unarmed just for refusing to raise his hands in surrender.

 

When a supervillian tells you to run, you run!

 

The quicksand trap makes absolutely no sense.

 

Nor does Toyman managing to track and subdue Winn.

 

Trigger-happy FBI is trigger-happy.

 

Confessing one's feelings in a newsroom probably isn't the best.

 

Too bad Max is smarter than Team Supergirl. One would think they'd try to plant a bug in Room 52.

[JapMo]

Love this show and don't get too much involved in the inconsistencies, etc. I've been waiting for them to acknowledge the chemistry between Alex and Maxwell Lord. They could melt the chrome off a Rolls Royce. Speaking of hot, I like Kara, but c'mon Jimmy. You'd pick her over Lucy Lane? That's like choosing a cocktail weenie over filet mignon.

Finally, I guess I'm one of the few who likes Winn and think he and Kara are cute together. I don't want to see the character go, but if the writers intend to eventually put them together, they need to start working on a foundation now. I'd rather not see Kara tiptoe past him and act all awkward and uncomfortable whenever they bump into each other. They need to be put into situations where she starts to look at him in a different way. It can work if written correctly, but it has to have a slow build.

[KirkB]

Right out of the gate I have to admit I didn't realize Cameron Chase was played by Emma Caulfield until I came here. I didn't look too closely at her face (and I think the dark hair helped) and I was a bit too distracted trying to figure out if her name was important, since it sounded like a DC character I had heard of. It turns out I do know of her but I am more annoyed with myself that I didn't recognize Emma.

 

It looks like they're giving J'onn his full comic powers, which except for an incapacitating vulnerability to

fire

(I'm playing it safe with that) makes him arguably the most powerful Justice Leaguer. He can do everything Kara or Clark can and then some. But his understandable concern for how humans would treat him because of his appearance and his general lack of interest in being a hero keeps him out of the limelight.

 

Toyman was interesting. A joke character in a lot of ways, but scary in that he seems like he should he so harmless. Kind of like the Trickster. The problem is, like on the Flash he doesn't make a very reasonable villain for someone who can move at super speed. Barry, and Kara even more so, should be able to handle whatever he is doing and shut him down before he even realizes they are there. Which is true really for any non-powered enemy anyway. They do seem to recognize this to a certain extent and have their plots threaten innocents to keep the hero distracted. I'll admit the quicksand trap was kind of silly but since he doesn't know about kryptonite an attempt to suffocate isn't a bad idea, though Kryptonians can hold their breath a looooong time.

 

Winn managed not to annoy me as much as he usually does this time. I actually felt bad for him. I even understand him kissing Kara and telling her he was in love with her, though like the rest of you I'm not sure where they can go from here since she's clearly not interested in him.

 

I'm a bit surprised (and disappointed) that Alex doesn't have either scramblers or detection equipment, since explosives and listening devices would be a pretty common occurrence in the spy world.

[MarkHB]

This was the first time I actually heard them use the name "Martian Manhunter" for J'onn.

 

Regarding the confrontation with the guard in Room 52, in the comics

J'onn can read minds as well as manipulate them.  I was expecting him to do that to find out what "Code Phoenix" was, but (perhaps to keep themselves out of future plot holes?) maybe, as with the memory wipe, they'll establish that as an intrusive "get out of my head!" power as opposed to a subtle "pickpocket your mind" power.

[KatWay]

I have to say, to me Kara has zero chemistry with either of her love interests. At least I find Winn vaguely funny, James is just kinda there for me. You could kill him off, I wouldn't even notice. Have to say, part of this is the actor...Mehcad Brooks does nothing for me and I found him absolutely terrible in True Blood as well and didn't get why everybody was fawning over him either. I wish they had gotten someone like Charles Michael Davis (from The Originals) for this role, someone who can play witty and charming. James is just so blah.

 

Also this Kara pines for James, Winn pines for Kara dynamic is just boring. Shake it up already, everybody move on from this dumbass triangle.

[Chicago Redshirt]

This was the first time I actually heard them use the name "Martian Manhunter" for J'onn.

 

Regarding the confrontation with the guard in Room 52, in the comics

J'onn can read minds as well as manipulate them.  I was expecting him to do that to find out what "Code Phoenix" was, but (perhaps to keep themselves out of future plot holes?) maybe, as with the memory wipe, they'll establish that as an intrusive "get out of my head!" power as opposed to a subtle "pickpocket your mind" power.

 

SGverse J'onn can read minds as well. He specifically referenced an inability to read Kryptonian minds that Superman thought was funny. So J'onn failing to do that here is another writer fail. Literally all J'onn needed to do is meet with Lord and read his mind to figure out what was up. No infiltration of Lord Technologies or shapeshifting into Lord necessary.

 

I'll admit the quicksand trap was kind of silly but since he doesn't know about kryptonite an attempt to suffocate isn't a bad idea, though Kryptonians can hold their breath a looooong time.

 

Props for the Creepshow reference!!

 

Love this show and don't get too much involved in the inconsistencies, etc. I've been waiting for them to acknowledge the chemistry between Alex and Maxwell Lord. They could melt the chrome off a Rolls Royce. Speaking of hot, I like Kara, but c'mon Jimmy. You'd pick her over Lucy Lane? That's like choosing a cocktail weenie over filet mignon.

 

I actually would disagree in many respects. On a looks-level, I'd say Lucy is hotter than Kara, but that's a matter of personal preference. There is also the issue of Lucy and he having a romantic history. The trouble is that the writers/directors are making it seem like Jimmy is pretty ambivalent about Lucy, though. I can't think of a time when he actually seemed like "I love Lucy!" (cue the theme music). There is also the issue of Kara having apparently never been in a relationship, sex with someone with super-strength and invulnerability being potentially scary, the issue of Kara being an alien who may or may not be able to have children with a human, the issue of Kara being emotionally immature/capable of flying into rages, and the weirdness of dating your best friend's cousin. (Although I guess dating the sister of one of your other close friends might be weird too).

 

Lucy's smart, funny, sweet and openly loves James.

 

The only downside to dating Lucy seems to be General Lane is part of the package.

 

As much as I disliked most of this episode and saw so many unnecessary stupid moments in it, I do have to laud the ending. But there's a danger in outing all of their secrets to Max Lord. I mean how's it going to be believable at ALL if he doesn't completely raze them to the ground with this info?  There's literally no reasonable way to stop him--even killing him (if Supergirl did that kind of thing) or John mindwiping him doesn't do the trick, because a guy like Max Lord will have redundant data backups and automatic failsafes in place with information like that which will be setup to play out automatically if he doesn't check in on them.  There's really no credible way to put things back in Pandora's box once a Max Lord finds out your secrets.  I mean maybe... counter-blackmail might be about it... but even then I'd be skeptical he wouldn't instead just switch his villainy to an overt level the way Lex Luthor inevitably always does. 

And really he knows everything with this.  Who Supergirl is out of uniform. Who to leverage to get to her. That Hank is also some person named John and that he has to by deduction be the person who impersonated Max and memory wiped his guard. 

 

I guess I can hope that watching Alex and Supergirl might pull Max from the brink of Mwa-ha-ha! villainy back to gray. Once he has enough footage showing no ulterior motives and that Supergirl is as much of a sweetheart as she seems, maybe he'll realize his "all aliens are the same" sentiment is pretty idiotic.

 

Also me no understand why John/Hank assumes there are no cameras at LordCo, or whatever that place is called. Or at least more than the obvious ones.

 

J'onn wiped most of the cameras at Lord Technologies. But he didn't know about Lord's super-secret cameras, and neither did even his personal assistant apparently.

[miracole]

Uh, when  has Winn ever bottled up his feelings concerning Kara?  He's been making it very clear that he has feelings for her since episode one. I guess it didn't count until he actually said the words.  I wish his speech to her hadn't sounded so much like Barry's speech from last seasons Flash.

 

I don't know what they're doing with Jimmy.  I was very annoyed with Lucy pretty much asking for his permission to come work at Catco and then getting all POed and telling him she didn't need his permission to work at Catco.

 

Alex and Max have amazing chemistry

 

 

I totally think they have chemistry however even though I probably shouldn't be seeing this I think Alex and J'onn/Hank have crazy chemistry and not in a mentor/mentee father figure way either.

Edited January 19, 2016 by miracole

[Ottis]

I thought the MM reveal about why he doesn't use his powers would be along the lines of, when he does, some sort of arch-villain can find him and would threaten Earth. The actual reason was more personal and more mundane.

 

Not that it would have made a difference this time but perhaps Kara shouldn't walk around in her Supergirl suit while hanging out in her gigantic apartment with huge windows?  Even a normal person would have to worry about some creep with a telescope or binoculars taking a peek.

 

 

 

Or how about flying in through the window? Super speed or not, that will eventually be noticed.

 

Also? I thought the Toyman seemed strangely contemporary and normal. is it me?

Edited January 19, 2016 by Ottis

[JapMo]

I do remember it took a lot for Jimmy to get Winn to admit he has feelings for Kara. He kept denying it and saying they were just friends, until Jimmy basically said he was moving out of the picture so there would be no competition.

I agree, Miracole, that they've had Jimmy (and Kara) running hot and cold about their feelings for each other. More in the beginning, it was heating up by leaps and bounds every episode. Then Lucy came into the picture and they now show Jimmy kind of pining for Kara and Kara seeming confused by mixed signals.

Also agree with you about Alex & Hank. I think there could be something there. But for sheer jump off the screen passion, IMO, it's Alex and Maxwell.

[pete]

This show kind generic which makes it pretty predictable.

[Chicago Redshirt]

I totally think they have chemistry however even though I probably shouldn't be seeing this I think Alex and J'onn/Hank have crazy chemistry and not in a mentor/mentee father figure way either.

In this episode, J'onn snarked about how Alex deserved better and Lord's narcissism and his ill-kempt facial hair doomed his chances with Alex. That was the first time I thought that J'onn might be into Alex as more than a friend/subordinate.

[roomtorome]

I found it a bit odd that Cat and SS made no mention that Cat knows she is SS.  Or, did I miss some acknowledgement of that fact?

[VCRTracking]

You must have missed the last episode where J'onn pretended to be Supergirl while in the same room with Kara in front of Cat, therefore fooling her into thinking she had been mistaken into thinking Kara and Supergirl were the same person.

 

I get why some people have a problem with Winn's speech to Kara at the end, but I thought he was just being honest. I do laugh at io9's take:

 

Supergirl Had the Best 'Be My Girlfriend or I'll Become a Supervillain' Speech

Edited January 19, 2016 by VCRTracking

[BooBear]

I guess I can hope that watching Alex and Supergirl might pull Max from the brink of Mwa-ha-ha! villainy back to gray. Once he has enough footage showing no ulterior motives and that Supergirl is as much of a sweetheart as she seems, maybe he'll realize his "all aliens are the same" sentiment is pretty idiotic.

 

One of the things that really bugs me is that this show has an over abundance of bad guys and a real dearth of romantic interests. It is like they keep everyone toggling back and forth as potentials.  Pick one side and develop it.

 

In this episode, J'onn snarked about how Alex deserved better and Lord's narcissism and his ill-kempt facial hair doomed his chances with Alex. That was the first time I thought that J'onn might be into Alex as more than a friend/subordinate.

 

Had the same thought.  Also when he was going on to Kara about her looking like a cheerleader and he looked like he looked. BTW Peter Facinelli gets some props from me because he did crack me up doing awkward Hank (even if that wasn't realistic)

 

At least I find Winn vaguely funny, James is just kinda there for me. You could kill him off, I wouldn't even notice. Have to say, part of this is the actor...Mehcad Brooks does nothing for me and I found him absolutely terrible in True Blood as well and didn't get why everybody was fawning over him either. I wish they had gotten someone like Charles Michael Davis (from The Originals) for this role, someone who can play witty and charming. James is just so blah.

I am begging the creators to allow Lucy and James to go  back to Metropolis. I see zero sparks with Kara and him and I guess I don't like the idea that he is playing both sides of the coin -- basking in Kara's glory and also trying to keep Lucy. I know there are some terrible rants on here about Winn but I don't find him bad at all. And I think he would be a better fit for Kara (for the moment). I don't exactly see why she isn't in to him because I don't find him ugly.  Someone upthread said that Winn could turn bad and it would be then that Kara would see things clearly. Not that I want to send that bad boy message but I would like for his turning bad to sort allow her to see how much she would miss him if he weren't around.