S20.E01: Week 1

[saber5055]

I've been with this show from the beginning (yes, I am OLD!) and after only making it through the first part of this episode before turning the channel, I realized I'm not only old, I am old school. I want the Bach to find love and marriage, not a bunch of crazy women put there by production to create drama and water-cooler talk. (Or online chat-room talk. *cough*) When one of the women got out of the limo and just walked over to introduce herself and then go into the mansion, it was so DIFFERENT and refreshing. No rose on head, no twin, no mini horse, no flying skateboard, no jumping into his arms .... just a very attractive woman coming to meet a guy. Now THAT'S what I watch this show for. It just doesn't happen that much any more.

 

I've just seen last night's episode so many times in past seasons, I just can't. And now it seems everyone has to be crazy to just get on the show. Just ... no from me.

 

When Chris H. asked Ben if he saw his wife in that room, I answered for him: "Oh, HELL no."

 

I must say, however, that the African-American vet is one of the most gorgeous women I have ever seen. Her bikini beach scenes? Hokey smokes, she was on fire. Then she went and ruined it with the big "kiss" to the camera. A close up of gigantic lips and nose with a view up the nostrils is not the most flattering. I had to reconsider my opinion of her beauty after that.

 

So Ben grew up on a farm? Do tell. Although I guess that's already been done. Even if I think Ben could do it better.

 

I guess I'm out until Ben maybe has winnowed out the fame whores and producer plants and there are a couple of real and honest women left. Not that I won't be checking in here each week to find out the latest!

[Lemons]

 

 

Although I do have to say that I find Ben refreshing after the last few seasons. I like that he has morals and is not afraid to admit it. He seems genuinely looking for someone serious. And isn't that what this show is about? Or the original premise anyway although it's went way off the rails at this point. I do think he needs to loosen up somewhat though and not be quite as uptight.

 

 

Everyone has morals, unless they are a sociopath.  But people have a variety of beliefs in what they feel is right or wrong.  A lot of "small town" Midwestern/southern people use the term "morals" to mean Christian or religious.  That's not what having morals means.

[leighdear]

Because the one and only time they let Bachelor Nation decide and we also chose someone we barely knew because he looked good in the background was Juan Pablo. And that was a DISASTER for production. 

No argument that he was a disaster, but the producers absolutely chose him.  And from everything I've read, it was primarily in response to the "No minorities have ever been chosen as lead" screaming of some groups.  There is no actual "Bachelor Nation" to blame it on, because it doesn't exist as a decision making body.  It's just fans that never get to nominate or vote for any lead.  Informal polls online or on TV are meaningless.  They know it and we know it.  THEY put him in, not us. 

[saber5055]

Everyone has morals, unless they are a sociopath.  But people have a variety of beliefs in what they feel is right or wrong.

Most people with high moral standards don't sign up to be on TB or TB-ette!

Edited January 5, 2016 by saber5055

[Bugs Meany]

I saw that "I worry I'm unlovable" thing differently--not looking for pity, but as being painfully honest.... I liked him for having the humility to say it, because I think he's really wondered about that. I thought it was refreshing to be that vulnerable, rather than just go with the way others want to see him on the show--handsome, nice, everyone's dream guy.

 

That's a very cup-half-full interpretation. I like Ben, but I thought his "unlovable" speech was a blatant Bachelor audition. He was never into Kaitlyn, and didn't even do a great job of faking it. I grabbed 4 pretty incriminating 4 seconds of video:

 

Kaitlyn: Do you think I’m wife material?

Ben: Um.... [turns away] [long pause] [can’t think of a good answer] Yeah.

 

(Here's another good one: “I will definitely miss...um [pause] Kaitlyn.")

 

Ben's a smart guy. He knew that once he'd reached the top 3, he was in position to be the next Bachelor. All he needed was a hook--a theme that Chris Harrison could keep addressing throughout the season--and he came up with worrying that he's "unlovable."

 

It worked, but I think he's regretting his angle. Last night he looked pretty uncomfortable having to stick to some BS he said several months ago. And I'm sure he had to apologize to his parents. If he actually grew up worrying he was unlovable, of course they would take that personally.

[yorklee2]

Because the one and only time they let Bachelor Nation decide and we also chose someone we barely knew because he looked good in the background was Juan Pablo. And that was a DISASTER for production. Yes, Ben is another polite, bland guy in a very long list of polite, bland guys. But production has been doing this for 20 seasons. They know they need a polite, bland guy that they can mold to just stand quietly in the background and let the crazy broads do their thing. Also, these polite, bland guys are "nice" and unoffending to Bachelor Nation, so even if he didn't get your motors running like some other wild mustang, you'll at least say, oh, he's a nice boy, I hope he finds a nice girl. And they will have a handful of nice girls--one for him to choose and one or two to be contenders for the spin-off. But, again, the nice love story is just the backdrop to showcase the crazy. It was definitely apparent by the look on Ben's face that the producers "made him" keep the crazy girls at the end. He looked visibly pained when Lace confronted him about not looking at her. Anyone with a stronger personality, such as Juan Pablo, probably would have kicked her out the door. But malleable, nice guy Ben is going to follow the rules because producer X said he had to keep her.

Thanks JenE4 for the response. I didn't know Juan Pablo was viewer picked. I watched the first season many years ago (geez I'm getting old) but not been a religious viewer so I've missed many seasons. Your explanation made so much sense though. I suppose you can't please everyone and no matter who they pick someone will not be happy. I'm learning that even if your not totally thrilled with the lead the contestants never fail to be entertaining and it's always fun to guess who the next lead will be.

I think Ben is great though. I really warmed up to him more after they announced him as the bachelor since we got to see more about him then the whole time he was on Kaitlyn's season..

Edited January 6, 2016 by yorklee2

[Wings]

Everyone has morals, unless they are a sociopath.  But people have a variety of beliefs in what they feel is right or wrong.  A lot of "small town" Midwestern/southern people use the term "morals" to mean Christian or religious.  That's not what having morals means.

 

 

I agree, you said it better than I did earlier.  Thundering applause!   You don't have to live in the Midwest or south to attribute morals  to Christianity.  They live everywhere.  And they tend to be very vocal.  

[Ms Blue Jay]

I think that the Canadian (looked it up - Jami), and Amber, are half black, right?  Sorry, I'm guessing.  And then there's Jubilee of course.  And Caila, not sure what her background is.  A few minorities in there.

 

As a Canadian I was really cringing when she got introduced.  She made us look pretty stupid.  But then the contestants got much worse after that so we'll see.

 

Looking at these pictures, Lauren "R. R." who got kicked off seems really beautiful.

 

http://abc.go.com/shows/the-bachelor/cast

 

Who's the one who the editors kept throwing in shots of throwing a football through her legs, catching a football on a beach, etc.?  That girl embarrassed the hell out of me.  I can catch a football?  That's your selling point?  This is probably my Canadianness showing

Edited January 5, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[Wings]

Most people with high moral standards don't sign up to be on TB or TB-ette!

 

That is not true at all!  Think of all the people who have been on this show who are highly functioning, smart people with a good emotional and social compass.  JP Rosenbaum and his wife Ashley to name my favorites.  And there are many more.  

[Wings]

 

I didn't know Juan Pablo was viewer picked.

 

 

He wasn't.  They blamed it on the viewers because a number of screaming women thought he was sexy.  No one voted or gave any direct feedback.  

[Superpole2000]

The unlovable angle is obviously ridiculous. Ben was a football quarterback. Matt Saracen is the only timid quarterback I have ever heard of, and he was fictional. Ben is 6'4, which is a height that typically affords a guy a lot of confidence. Most importantly, you probably don't lead a season of The Bachelor and think, "I wonder if anyone could love me." Probably quite the opposite.

 

I enjoyed Ben greeting/referring to his father on the phone as Big Guy. I don't know any guy out there who calls their dad "Big Guy," so that made me laugh. it seemed so incredibly unnatural, as if he said it and immediately thought, "Well that didn't come out right."

[Lemons]

 You don't have to live in the Midwest or south to attribute morals  to Christianity.  They live everywhere.  And they tend to be very vocal.  

 

That's true but I especially cringe when I hear them attribute their moral superiority to their "small home town" values, kind of like Ben did more than a few times in his speeches. 

 

And then there was one idiot contestant whose first sentence to Ben was something about how she was so happy that they shared the same values and morals because that is sooo important to her.   Like they had been on a number of dates and shared personal information.

[Jodio]

The unlovable angle is obviously ridiculous. Ben was a football quarterback. Matt Saracen is the only timid quarterback I have ever heard of, and he was fictional. Ben is 6'4, which is a height that typically affords a guy a lot of confidence. Most importantly, you probably don't lead a season of The Bachelor and think, "I wonder if anyone could love me." Probably quite the opposite.

I immediately thought this: handsome, educated, sporty, tall man who grew up in an intact family with loving parents. Why would he feel unlovable? He can't have herpes, since the show screens for that. The only other possibility is that he has a micropenis. Not that I've ever had any experience with this EXACT scenario. ;-)   

[Madding crowd]

Ben is good looking enough and I love tall men with deep voices, so there is that. He is from a small town, but besides that I don't think we know much about how religious he is or isn't. The show seems to equate small town with "family values", but that could mean anything from just having a family to sit down together at dinner to going to church on Sunday. So far, Ben has not talked about religion at all.

 

Also, FWIW, I keep reading about how Sean talked about religion all the time on the show, and it is simply not true. He didn't mention it even once. He did say he wasn't going to have sex in the fantasy suite, but that was it. I didn't find Sean attractive but I thought he seemed like a smart, nice guy and I think Ben is probably the same. Let's face it-shows like this want All American types to be their star. Katlyn and Juan Pablo were the opposite types and they got nothing but bad press. So, I'm OK with Ben as long he seems reasonably intelligent which so far he does. 

[saber5055]

That is not true at all!  Think of all the people who have been on this show who are highly functioning, smart people with a good emotional and social compass.  JP Rosenbaum and his wife Ashley to name my favorites.  And there are many more.

 

Well, okay, I give you that, Wings. You are correct. It just seems that there are fewer and fewer JPs and Ashleys on each season, and more and more sex in the ocean, skinny dipping and back stabbing fame whoring. All that sort of makes me forget there ever were any honest or real people on this show. Plus, it's been a while since the Ashley/JP season. I do believe "back in the day" contestants took this show more seriously. It appears very few do today, it's turned into pretty much of a circus IMO.

[Mu Shu]

Mandi's audition video is really good. I love this woman. We didn't get to see her wit because production made her examine his teeth and wear that stupid hat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9ileBSUf7M

That was pretty funny. For some reason, the rando reading "huge penis" was extra hilarious. She looks very good on that light, and holy boobs.

[CindyBee]

Well, okay, I give you that, Wings. You are correct. It just seems that there are fewer and fewer JPs and Ashleys on each season, and more and more sex in the ocean, skinny dipping and back stabbing fame whoring. All that sort of makes me forget there ever were any honest or real people on this show. Plus, it's been a while since the Ashley/JP season. I do believe "back in the day" contestants took this show more seriously. It appears very few do today, it's turned into pretty much of a circus IMO.

 

I think social media, especially Twitter and Instagram have changed things in the last few seasons.   That the word is out if you come on and make a "name" for yourself then you can join the bachelor/ette rejects shilling useless products and that boring 9/5 to job that you don't like can be ditched for the glamorous world of teeth whiting products, sunglasses, etc.  Plus don't forget that chance to spend a month at some resort in Mexico on ABC's dime come summer time and the filming of Bachelor in Paradise.   I thought there were quite of few girls last night that we very aware of camera time and had no interest in Ben at all.

Edited January 5, 2016 by CindyBee

[MMLEsq]

I've never watched any season of The Bachelor or The Bachelorette***, so I have nothing in the way to add regarding comparisons of Ben to former Bachelors, etc.

 

I can't even really pinpoint why I decided to watch this season, although years of hearing Howard Stern and Robin obsess over it on Tuesday mornings might have finally worn me down.  I figured, if nothing else, it's probably worth watching just to be able to appreciate the snark here (I'm guessing there's a lot to snark on).

 

So with that background (basically coming into this with no preconceived opinions), my impressions were (1) Ben seemed sweet and likable and I'm going to take at face value his declarations that he's sincere in his desire to find a wife on the show; (2) I couldn't stand Lace or Mandi; and (3) I can barely remember any other names, so I don't really have a favorite at this point.  I remember Jubilee and Caila, and Becca and Amber (only because they were talked about so much), the twins were Emily and Hayley(?), I know there's a bunch of Laurens, and a Laura (I think).  I remember the Russian (Shushanna?) and I remember that there was a Samantha because she made some sort of comment that she didn't care if he called her Sam or Samantha, etc., as long as she got a rose.  Oh, and there was a Jo Jo, right?  Hmmm...maybe I absorbed more than I thought.  For some reason, I remember one of the Laurens having the nickname L.B. (is that right?) -- I think maybe she's the one I initially liked the best.

 

I'm guessing that no network would really want one of their anchors on the Bachelor anyway, it's not the greatest showcase. 

*** As I mentioned above, I've never watched either version of the show before...not even the season of The Bachelorette where one of my former co-workers was one of the guys on the show.  (Help me out here:  are they referred to as contestants? suitors? bachelors? or just the guys/men/boys/etc.?)  We were both attorneys at the same huge law firm in NY (one of the those international firms with 100s and 100s of attorneys).  He and I happened to be in the same dept. although I really didn't know him.  I have to say the partners at the firm....pretty much without exception....seemed to be pretty embarrassed that he was on the show (even though I doubt the show ever identified the firm, although it probably wouldn't have been too difficult for viewers to figure it out with a little bit of Googling, etc.).  Anyway, they let him have a leave of absence to do the show, but afterwards the general opinion of him was that he was kind of an idiot and no one really took him seriously at the firm after that.  It didn't help that -- apparently (as I was told, since I didn't watch myself) -- he came off very stalker-y on the show.  If I remember correctly, he left the firm within a year of being on the show.  

[C76]

 

*** As I mentioned above, I've never watched either version of the show before...not even the season of The Bachelorette where one of my former co-workers was one of the guys on the show.  (Help me out here:  are they referred to as contestants? suitors? bachelors? or just the guys/men/boys/etc.?)  We were both attorneys at the same huge law firm in NY (one of the those international firms with 100s and 100s of attorneys).  He and I happened to be in the same dept. although I really didn't know him.  I have to say the partners at the firm....pretty much without exception....seemed to be pretty embarrassed that he was on the show (even though I doubt the show ever identified the firm, although it probably wouldn't have been too difficult for viewers to figure it out with a little bit of Googling, etc.).  Anyway, they let him have a leave of absence to do the show, but afterwards the general opinion of him was that he was kind of an idiot and no one really took him seriously at the firm after that.  It didn't help that -- apparently (as I was told, since I didn't watch myself) -- he came off very stalker-y on the show.  If I remember correctly, he left the firm within a year of being on the show.  

 

That's one thing I've wondered about--how being on The Bachelor(ette) impacts the contestants in the real world. I was watching last night's episode with my mother, and every time they showed one of the women's occupations, I started squawking (*insert Captain Picard meme*),"But she's a...lawyer/real estate rep/accountant/[insert respectable job here]." The potential impact on my professional life would be enough to keep me far, far away from this franchise.

[MMLEsq]

That's one thing I've wondered about--how being on The Bachelor(ette) impacts the contestants in the real world. I was watching last night's episode with my mother, and every time they showed one of the women's occupations, I started squawking (*insert Captain Picard meme*),"But she's a...lawyer/real estate rep/accountant/[insert respectable job here]." The potential impact on my professional life would be enough to keep me far, far away from this franchise.

I had to look him up just now, because I couldn't remember his name on my own, but the guy I was referring to was Stu Lupoten (who -- according to Google -- was referred to as "Stalker Stu" on Season 3 of The Bachelorette).  It looks like he's not even a lawyer any more (not a big surprise), although I'm curious whether being on the show derailed his legal career or if he was not that motivated to be an attorney in the first place (that's my guess).  Anyone already at a big NYC firm is not going to view taking time off to be on a reality dating TV show to be a good move, law profession-wise.

 

As an aside, my sister, who's a doctor, was once asked to be on The Maury Povich Show to be an expert on something and she was like, "Hell, no!"  

 

Sorry that this got so far off topic...  back on topic:  I can't imagine anyone wanting to go to a dentist that came off as weird as Mandi, unless it was a go-in-once-just-to-gawk kind of thing.  (Although I thought the same thing about the dentist on Big Brother this summer, but he eventually won me over....sort of.)  And, speaking of professions, is "Chicken Enthusiast" related to her (can't remember her name) profession (sells eggs, breeds chickens, etc.?) or is she actually unemployed?  

Edited January 5, 2016 by MMLEsq

[WhoInvitedHer]

Ben is a snooze.

Lots of doppelgängers: the girl from six feet under, Heather Graham, (not roller girl .heather, busted flowers in the attic heather), drunk Teri Hatcher, and the girl who looks like Amber. Oh, and the Paris Hilton twins. Actually, maybe Nikki Hilton twins.

Don't horses tend to just poop where they stand, or are the little ones toilet trained?

 

Ha, I agree with all of these. 

 

So Ben is religious? Well, that means I can watch safely without developing a crush on him myself. He's a cutie and seems very nice but yeah, he's not overflowing with charisma or anything. (Where is Arie?!?!?!)

 

Not one of these girls stood out to me as being either particularly beautiful (i.e. Britt, Ashley I.) or particularly charming or interesting (i.e. Sharleen, Clare from JP's season). I thought Lauren R. was the prettiest, but she was eliminated -- I guess she should have told Ben her name! I was surprised the redhead was eliminated too, she was pretty and seemed relatively smart and normal. 

 

Olivia is striking in a certain way but I don't think she's a great beauty. I agree that something about her comes across as calculated. Lauren B. the flight attendant seems more natural and genuine. I also like JoJo a lot and I think she'll go far. Calling those three for my final three. Rachel is pretty too but I didn't spot much of her in the previews. The twins actually seem pretty cool, although I agree that they're not particularly pretty. 

 

Jubilee is pretty and likable and seems to make it pretty far as well, which makes me wonder if she might positioned by the producers to be the next Bachette? 

 

On the negatives: Amanda's voice made me want to die. I've come to the conclusion after living in Europe that this affected baby voice thing is a uniquely American atrocity, and I wish these women would realize that it is just not cute. And Lace is just...ugh. She is obviously a producer plant and sure she's pretty, but not THAT pretty. 

 

I'm curious about Becca -- she and Ben actually seem like they'd make a good match to me, but they weren't showing much of her in the previews. Is that to throw us off? I liked her in Chris's season and hope I don't have to change my mind. 

[JenE4]

He wasn't. They blamed it on the viewers because a number of screaming women thought he was sexy. No one voted or gave any direct feedback.

Yes, the screaming women went wild on TMTA. However, after that they did post polls online (for the first time) and had people vote on who they wanted in. Juan Pablo won by a huge margin. Then throughout the show, Harrison kept saying how Bachelor Nation demanded Juan Pablo. Of course they could have put someone else in, but they obviously did that to see who viewers wanted to see. Production did the same thing with Britt and Kaitlyn. They were at a deadlock on who to go with, so they opened it up to social media feedback. Viewers were pretty evenly split, too, so they brought them both on. Those were seriously the only two times I saw them open up a vote to Bachelor Nation. I have no doubt they scour social media to see who gets people talking. But when you think about it, every other season in recent history had a go-to nice guy or gal that they decided on themselves. It was only those two off seasons with no clear "nice person" to choose that they asked Bachelor Nation to choose for them.

[leighdear]

Small Towns could also mean a very limited population with a lot of inbreeding.  How moral is that?   And small towns can have just as many nasty secrets as big towns, but the isolation  keeps them hidden.  It's all crap.  No matter the town size, there are good people and bad people.  

[violet and green]

Geez, he's dull.  I mean, God bless his little cotton socks and all that, but he's so damn bland, and he's kicked off Red Velvet who was my favorite, the Chicken Enthusiast, and the Cowgirl with the little horse already, so I can't even look forward to a few shots of interesting pets! On the plus side, no discernible chest, so it looks like there won't be a slew of random catch-ups with him staring moodily into the distance with his shirt off - or maybe they're saving that for next episode.

 

I think I am too old for this season. Really, I think he is way too young for this role. It brings the mean age of the women down and there is just so much talk of Instagram stalking I can stand, so much of the squeaky voices, and kill me quickly before someone else talks about their boring 'small-town' values and makes me feel like more of a total whore, but I guess I will chug through it as usual.

 

It's always about the women, anyway. So I guess things will pick up as we get to know them (bring back Red Velvet!), and he at least showed some natural facial responses when Lace was scolding him for not looking at her enough, after he gave her the rose, so maybe I'll warm to him. I guess. 

[Wings]

Fucking Mike Fleiss.  If he would have shaken up the format, enough to keep me pinned to the screen I would not have a $236 charge to zappos, $18.54 to etsy and $142 to sundance.  What are we supposed to do while this is airing, I would like to know?  Spider solitaire goes just so far.  

[Soobs]

I thought wanting a girl with "small town values" was code for wanting someone who doesn't embarrass herself on national TV but what do I know, I'm just a disgusting, hollow, city person, lol.

 

I really don't expect much from this show but having twins on and presenting them as the ultimate male fantasy as if they are one person, was gross. At least have them get out of the limo separately, jeez.

 

Ben's okay, boring but definitely sexier when he's talking, than the photos of him depict. The Captain America type isn't really my thing though.

[Stinamaia]

That's a very cup-half-full interpretation. I like Ben, but I thought his "unlovable" speech was a blatant Bachelor audition. He was never into Kaitlyn, and didn't even do a great job of faking it. I grabbed 4 pretty incriminating 4 seconds of video:

(Here's another good one: “I will definitely miss...um [pause] Kaitlyn.")

Ben is not a good liar! And wasn't he the roommate who had to go take a shower while Shawn and Kaitlyn -- uh -- hooked up? It was so cheeky how Kaitlyn asked the question.. It was more like she was teasing him.

On Kimmel he mentioned that he watched the bachette with his family and their church group. On come on! Not at your place with some buddies and beer?! He is coming across as timid and uptight, to me thus far. Not saying I don't like him, just getting some red flags, that is all.

Morals imply religious, to me. As an atheist I have a strong sense of right and wrong but I do not use the word morals. For me this show is about a compelling, confident lead finding love. JP Rosenbaum (not a lead) is a fabulous man and not caught up in "morals." He is just a good guy and very witty! That is what I hope to see.

I'm an atheist living in a small town (and not the only one here) so I always smile when small towns are given that 1950s image. It certainly hasn't been true at least since methamohetamines ravaged rural American and probably not before that either. At any rate, I agree that I would more often uses the words "ethics" or "values" rather than morals. Morals can be a loaded word that often has something to do with sexuality than with honesty etc.

The only comment Ben made on a dress was Jubilee's long sleeved gown. Interesting.

I thought he also told Lace her dress was beautiful. Edited January 6, 2016 by Stinamaia

[DEL901]

Sorry, I tried to quote and it got lost... to the person wondering if Ben is religious:  he's given a number of interviews where he's said that he has a very strong faith and he's hoping the girl he chooses feels the same way because it would be easier for raising a family.

Edited January 6, 2016 by DEL901

[Kimmature]

The twin thing just pisses me off.  I've got multiple birth kids, and I hate the 'let's have sex with siblings' thing.  Ben's apparently the next thing to asexual, so why even go there?  

 

Cute mini-horse...chicken lady should have brought her pets along.  Enough of the women were almost fainting at the sight of the horse (who presumably pooped everywhere off-camera)...the chickens might have livened things up a bit. 

 

At least it looks like they're going abroad this year- I guess that Ben doesn't have any travel restrictions on him.   If he is sane, nice, a great catch, etc- why is he on the show?  He's not unlikable onscreen, but there must be some reason why he's choosing to make a fool of himself on TV. 

 

He seems like a decent kind of guy, so I'm just left wondering why he's even on the show.  The last few Bachelors have been pretty obvious about being attention whores, but there doesn't seem to be much reason why Ben hasn't found a less public area to 'find love' in.  

[nlkm9]

one thing that struck me (Im another old one, been watching this since season 1!!) is that every season, they flashback to how the bach or bachette got their heart broken on the previous season.....they just skated right over kaitlyn, barely mentioned her, and I think it was another way that the powers that be show how displeased they were with kaitlyn....I was actually surprised to see her on the aftershow, but thats another story all together...anyone else notice the lack of flashbacks??

[Alapaki]

Did I hear Amanda correctly that she has a 2 year old, and that she also got divorced two years ago?

 

I hope she sticks around long enough to spill those beans, because there's got to be a story there.

[nlkm9]

cannot stand her baby voice.. (amanda). it made me flashback to Trista...

[Merneith]

To hell with Bachelors. Why can't we have a show about finding homes for lonely little horsies?

[yorklee2]

Everyone has morals, unless they are a sociopath. But people have a variety of beliefs in what they feel is right or wrong. A lot of "small town" Midwestern/southern people use the term "morals" to mean Christian or religious. That's not what having morals means.

Yes you are right. Let me rephrase it then. I like that Ben doesn't try to hide his religious beliefs. No one in this country should be afraid of stating their beliefs (be it Christian, Jewish, atheist etc.) because they are afraid of offending someone. Personally I identify with Ben in that regard because I am a Christian (from the south) but that is by no means the only reason I like him. We as viewers can chose to like or dislike a contestant based on anything. Be it the color of their hair, their voice, their smile, religion or lack thereof. Take your pick. But as one viewer stated (and I agree with) as long as it's not too overdone there shouldn't be a problem with it. Many people have differing opinions on this board. As it should be. I was simply stating that what the poster didn't like about Ben, I did. Nothing more, nothing less.

Now can we get back to the snarking...lol

Edited January 6, 2016 by yorklee2

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

It's Raining Ben. Hallelujah?
The Bachelor is back for its TWENTIETH season, featuring possibly the milquetoastiest of bland Bachelors yet, Ben Higgins. Is the premiere worth using up two of your remaining life-hours on?

[Madding crowd]

When I was talking about Ben and religion, I meant what was shown on TV. I don't read interviews with the contestants. I don't see why it should be a problem for anyone to know that a person is a Christian if they don't talk about it on TV. I'm a Christian myself and I don't feel it needs to be hidden, but it shouldn't be part of a dating show, which it isn't (and wasn't when Sean was on either). Andi was Jewish and her religion was never really talked about because who cares?

[Kimmature]

 Andi was Jewish and her religion was never really talked about because who cares?

More like Andi's history wasn't talked about because it didn't fit the narrative of the show.  Even aside from her religion- remember her intro about her being a law and order type prosecutor?  No mention that she walked out on a trial and (apparently) gave up her law license to be the Bachelorette, and hasn't made any attempt to get it back.  It's like Kaitlyn being Canadian- Chris Soules couldn't travel to Canada because of his DUI conviction, so her being Canadian wasn't worth mentioning.  

 

The show doesn't talk about things that they don't want to talk about- there's a reason that we never see any of the leads discussing actually important issues like religion and politics, because the producers don't want to alienate any of their viewing audience.  We're a bit snarky on these forums, but there are apparently a great deal of viewers out there who think that the show is really about 'true love'. Being even culturally Jewish or Christian does actually 'matter' to a lot of couples when they're trying to make a life together. 

[Fable]

I might actually watch this season.  Ben is cute in an "aw shucks" sort of way, and in most cases, it seems like he can string together words in a way to pull off a complete sentence.  Also I like the idea (producer driven or not) that someone might actually focus on something other than lip locking to decide if there is a connection.   

[yorklee2]

I might actually watch this season.  Ben is cute in an "aw shucks" sort of way, and in most cases, it seems like he can string together words in a way to pull off a complete sentence.  Also I like the idea (producer driven or not) that someone might actually focus on something other than lip locking to decide if there is a connection.   

Couldn't agree more. Less can be more in my opinion.

[Padma]

I'm not religious, but I'm not sure how I'd feel if we actually saw these people talking about religion (whether Jewish, Christian, Muslim, atheist, etc.).

 

On the one hand, it might come across as proselytizing or sanctimonious. But on the other, if people are -truly- looking for a life partner, maybe their spiritual beliefs don't need to match or maybe (depending on the couple) they do. In any case, perhaps it would actually be interesting to see how those "values" issues are explored in a real life kind of conversation..

 

Then again, this is "The Bachelor" so it will never happen. If any of these people ever discuss their values, life goal, formative experiences etc. for the most part, we will never get to see it. (That's why travel porn is so important to make up for the lack in real interactions).

 

I wouldn't have thought of Ben as particularly observant if he hadn't mentioned watching the show with his church group. Other than that, I don't think he's really brought it up (maybe in Kaitlyn's season all the men went to church on Sunday but one and that -wasn't- Ben? I vaguely remember something like that but it could be from a different season.)

 

I didn't have much impression of Sean Lowe's religious beliefs during his season either. It was only after the show was over, finding out about the views he and his minister-father shared, that I formed a clearer picture of him as a (too controlling for my taste) husband. Until I see otherwise, I'll continue thinking Ben is just a nice guy who values his religion and church friends and isn't interested in imposing his beliefs on others.

 

(And during Kaitlyn's season there was someone here--maybe even a former TWOPer, if memory serves--who knew Ben quite well and thought he was a great guy. Till I see otherwise, I'm going with that. :) ).

 

ETA: Re: Sean Lowe. I had forgotten about the moronic "born again virgin" thing. So far no hint of that from Ben. A good thing.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Padma

[Andromeda]

ETA.  I am glad I didn't know Desiree said Jesus lover in her bio.

 

Me, too. I like Desiree, and think she got a bad rap on her season.

 

Everyone has morals, unless they are a sociopath.  But people have a variety of beliefs in what they feel is right or wrong.  A lot of "small town" Midwestern/southern people use the term "morals" to mean Christian or religious.  That's not what having morals means.

Well said. I'm agnostic and quite moral (well, I haven't committed any crimes). And I'm one of those who can't imagine sleeping with all three fantasy suite finalists, so there's that. So I don't equate being religious with being moral, but I do agree a lot of people use it as code on these shows, probably so as not to turn people like me completely off. It was heavy-handed enough in Sean's season. (Or, maybe it just felt that way to me because of the chastity thing.)

 

That's true but I especially cringe when I hear them attribute their moral superiority to their "small home town" values, kind of like Ben did more than a few times in his speeches. 

 

And then there was one idiot contestant whose first sentence to Ben was something about how she was so happy that they shared the same values and morals because that is sooo important to her.   Like they had been on a number of dates and shared personal information.

That was the one with her giga-boobs hanging out (or at least the camera angle made it look that way!). I got a good chuckle out of it. I agree about the moral superiority thing -- I live in a small city, in the 'burbs. I guess that's just too wild and crazy to be "moral."

 

I am so glad Miss Gluten Free is gone. That bread looks so so good. I am glad Ben saw that these gluten nazis are fucking nuts. Hey you can't eat gluten, keep it to yourself and have a great life, don't try to convert everyone else. That is one of my huge pet peeves. Her entrance was ridiculous and I love Ben for given her the gluten-free heave ho

She was nuts. That bread looked delish. Plus, she's misinformed. Gluten is only a problem for two types of people -- those with celiac disease, and those who have an actual gluten allergy. Everyone else can enjoy wheat and not have to eat replacements. "Gluten-free" is a fad for the mainstream, which will pass, along with center-part hair and leggings, I hope! (Is anyone still drinking wheat grass?)

 

This is what I took away from this first episode.  Cecily Strong has been stunt cast as Lace "Girl you wish you didn't strike up a conversation with at a party" from SNL Weekend Update.

YES!! Thank you! I knew she reminded me of someone! Edited January 6, 2016 by Andromeda

[poopchute]

Did I hear Amanda correctly that she has a 2 year old, and that she also got divorced two years ago?

I hope she sticks around long enough to spill those beans, because there's got to be a story there.

Yes!! I asked about this in another thread! I am really interested to know what happened there.

[ByTor]

I got about 90 seconds into the dentist's audition video and couldn't take any more. Her little "I'm so wacky and quirky!!!" grins every time she did some unfunny thing was way too annoying. She likely saw how popular Ashley S was and decided to follow suit.

I think Lace looks like Jami Gertz.

[bosawks]

To hell with Bachelors. Why can't we have a show about finding homes for lonely little horsies?

 

Sigh, I really miss "Rock of Love"............

[Lamb18]

Olivia is a broadcaster in Austin, TX. (or was a broadcaster). Not a huge market like New York or LA, but not exactly in the middle of nowhere.  Also Chicken Enthusiast has a regular job - it was in her bio. The show or she decided to go with Chicken Enthusiast as her label instead of what her profession is.

[JenE4]

To hell with Bachelors. Why can't we have a show about finding homes for lonely little horsies?

You need to watch this season of Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. One of the storylines is about buying miniature horses.

[Superpole2000]

I really don't expect much from this show but having twins on and presenting them as the ultimate male fantasy as if they are one person, was gross. At least have them get out of the limo separately, jeez.

The twins are doing it to themselves, though. The twins willfully signed up for this show knowing that they would be treated this way. They agreed to get out of the limo together and have conversations with Ben together. They are 100% doing this just to be on TV (this is not the first reality show in which they have taken part).

[truthaboutluv]

Olivia is a broadcaster in Austin, TX. (or was a broadcaster). Not a huge market like New York or LA, but not exactly in the middle of nowhere.

From what I've read online, she's from Austin but was actually working at a station in Virginia.

[Wings]

I thought wanting a girl with "small town values" was code for wanting someone who doesn't embarrass herself on national TV but what do I know, I'm just a disgusting, hollow, city person, lol.

 

I really don't expect much from this show but having twins on and presenting them as the ultimate male fantasy as if they are one person, was gross. At least have them get out of the limo separately, jeez.

 

Ben's okay, boring but definitely sexier when he's talking, than the photos of him depict. The Captain America type isn't really my thing though.

 

Small town values is probably about things like not,  lots of make-up, expensive shoes, high maintenance in general, partying Botox, fancy tastes in food and trappings.   I tend to groan when I hear that.  From Detroit, lived in NYC, and Boston and I would be considered as having "small town" sensibilities.  Down to earth would be a better phrase.  

[Ms Blue Jay]

But the bigger the city... the more you walk around and have a pedestrian lifestyle and go sightseeing to museums, and seeing people of diverse backgrounds.  When I go back to the suburbs it's all SUVs and shopping malls, big box stores and literally almost nothing else.  Anyways...   I guess none of the towns I've grown up in can be considered "small" if they were all over 200K population so I probably don't know what small town values really means.