S03.E10: Maveth

[Al Herkimer]

I think there's a strong possibility that since burning up the body he was in didn't do the trick, the ultimate defeat of this ancient Inhuman will involve some "exorcism" type procedure and that they will use that as a way to bring the Ward character back.  I know, he had mortal wounds, but I think they could work around that somehow.  I agree with the comparison to Sylar, but I think they hired the actor on as a full-time "good guy" co-lead (before they decided to make Ward a traitor) and they're loathe to cut him loose.

[Al Herkimer]

This would also give Coulson the possibility of a redemptive "do-over" as he has the chance to kill Ward again, but decides to take him into custody instead... bringing Ward into season 3.

[Fogh]

I think there's a strong possibility that since burning up the body he was in didn't do the trick, the ultimate defeat of this ancient Inhuman will involve some "exorcism" type procedure and that they will use that as a way to bring the Ward character back.  I know, he had mortal wounds, but I think they could work around that somehow.  I agree with the comparison to Sylar, but I think they hired the actor on as a full-time "good guy" co-lead (before they decided to make Ward a traitor) and they're loathe to cut him loose.

 

The showrunners knew Ward was HYDRA when they hired Brett. They said in a recent podcast that Ward being HYDRA was foreshadowed as early as the pilot. They didn't say what in the pilot was meant as foreshadowing though.

[xqueenfrostine]

As for Coulson and Rosalind. You know, I don't think the interpretation needs to be that Rosalind's death was the impetus for Coulson to hunt down Ward *because he loved her so much*. I think, rather, it was Coulson's realization that Ward wasn't going to stop playing this sick game of his. Coulson finally understood that Ward was taking great pleasure in making SHIELD suffer in the worst ways possible. And I don't think it was just about Coulson suffering in that moment, but more about what Ward was capable of doing next, and after that, and after that. And everyone else who would have to suffer.

 

So it doesn't have to be read as Coulson's pain entirely, it can also be read as (in addition to) the pain he wanted to make sure wouldn't happen to anyone else anymore. 

 

I don't think they presented it on the show that way though,  For the past two episodes, we didn't have Reasonable Coulson.  We had Mad With Vengeance In His Heart Coulson.  Add in the ridiculous soft focus pillow talk visions of Rosalind, and I don't see how we can see Coulson's change of heart as his just finally realizing Ward Had To Be Stopped.  Pillow Talk Visions are generally reserved for people who are grieving a loved one.  I don't think they would have taken up time in this episode for those visions with Rosalind if that wasn't Coulson's primary motivation.

[dwmarch]

I realize that Maveth is pronounced with a short "a" sound (or more of an umlauted a), but in my head I hear someone with a lisp trying to say Mavis. So now that Ward's dead, that's how I'm going to refer to Zombie!Ward in my head canon. "I am...Mavith."

 

I keep hearing it in Butt-Head's voice. "Settle down, Maveth."

 

That said, I like seeing our Inhumans at work.  Sad we didn't get a few more.  Also kind of sad that that's all Lash really does is kill inhumans.  Would have like it if we saw some hope there that while he might not be good, he was a bit less one-dimensional. 

 

Well, since Hydra probably didn't gather the cuddly Inhumans to be the big daddy Inhuman's army, Andrew actually ended up helping the good guys. I thought it was a bit of shame that none of them realized that.

 

Looks like I got what I asked for. Kung Fu Grip Coulson literally Crushed. Ward's. Soul. Complete with Mic...I mean Hand Drop! But, then again, Ward is now VoldeWard. Be careful what you wish for, etc.

Happy I called it in "Closure ". Off to play the lottery now.

 

I thought Coulson was breaking his heart because, you know. And I am happy I called the Will reveal all the way back in the 4,722 Hours thread. See you at the lotto terminal!

[Amelie06]

I'm not giving Coulson the thumbs up for murdering Ward. I don't care that Ward is dead. He was an irredeemable crazy-pants. I just can't get down with crushing someone to death. That is up close and creepy. He could have shot Ward in the damn head and been done with all of it. But he had to pretend Ward to be the good guy and that Ward wasn't going to keep pushing it. Then man was lying prone on the ground, and looked to already be dying. Crushing a man's organs with your robotic hand is a super weird way to kill someone. And, I'd imagine painful for the victim. I know Ward was literally the worst, I just think this doesn't say anything great about Coulson. He has engaged in more purposeful acts of wanton murder than any of the Avengers.

 

I'm bummed that Will died. I figured he was dead since his only other episode, but I still had hope. He was an interesting character and was very strong to have survived for so long by himself. Also, I can't help but feel that the poor man deserved better after all he had been through.

 

Zombie Ward will be somewhat interesting if he can let us know more about this ancient civilization.

[KirkB]

Right after Tripp died Jemma didn't have much of an issue with the idea of killing Inhumans, so on some level I'm not sure she'd be that opposed to Lash killing the ones Hydra had, especially since I'm sure they weren't planning on doing nice things to them anyway. But like it or not she probably wouldn't have made it back to the others if she hadn't let Andrew out. Besides, technically Lash is less of an threat than Hydra or BPE (Blue Planet Evil) since he doesn't seem inclined to kill anyone who isn't Inhuman.

 

Simmons only saw Daisy and Mac first, so I think she was looking for Fitz and Will. Then when she saw Fitz and the expression on his face, she suspected Will wasn't with them but I think part of her was still hopeful until she peered into the box.

 

Did they actually use the name Maveth in the episode and I missed it?

 

I still don't understand how Zombie Ward made it back to Earth. Coulson and Fitz came through the portal, got into the box with Daisy and Mac, they took off and May blew up the castle. Did the Inhuman manage to get into Ward, stand him up, get to the rapidly closing portal before it shut, and out of the castle before it went boom? And how did he find Malick?

[sinkwriter]

 

Add in the ridiculous soft focus pillow talk visions of Rosalind, and I don't see how we can see Coulson's change of heart as his just finally realizing Ward Had To Be Stopped.  Pillow Talk Visions are generally reserved for people who are grieving a loved one.

 

I saw those visions as part of a concussion from hitting his head when he "landed" on the blue planet. I don't believe she's some "could have been" soulmate.

 

Right after Tripp died Jemma didn't have much of an issue with the idea of killing Inhumans, so on some level I'm not sure she'd be that opposed to Lash killing the ones Hydra had, especially since I'm sure they weren't planning on doing nice things to them anyway. But like it or not she probably wouldn't have made it back to the others if she hadn't let Andrew out.

 

All great points. But I do think there's a difference between the idea of killing Inhumans and actually being responsible for many, many deaths because she chose to save herself by letting Lash out. The realization of that seemed to hit her when May informed the group of what happened. Jemma knows it was her choices that opened that door, literally and figuratively.

[OtterMommy]

If the portal was closing with seconds to go as Coulson/Fitz went through it, how did the worm/Goa'uld/whatever crawl from "IT"s body to Ward's body and then manage to re-animate it -- AND -- make it to the portal -- AND -- survive the collapse of the castle -- AND -- race far down the road so that he could block the road in front of Malick's car.  What ..... is "IT" part the Flash too ?

 

ETA:  I like the nickname Zombie Ward.

 

I agree.  I really enjoyed this episode, although it wasn't as "surprising" as I'd hope, but that last set of events was definitely a head scratcher.  I'm hoping an explanation is presented in May and it's not just one of those things that you have to accept because the show says it is so.

[VCRTracking]

Joey getting excited about melting the bullets was adorable.

[blackwing]

So Ward isn't dead, he's possessed by that thing.  If the thing leaves his body, I'm sure the show will find a way to bring back "real" Ward.  Nobody ever really stays dead for long in the comic book world.

 

But I'm wondering if Mark DaCaca is dead.  Lincoln fried him.  Why did Daisy stop him from finishing him off?  It would have taken a mere 10 more seconds.  I don't get why DaCaca didn't telekinetically blast Daisy directly.  Why raise a gun to shoot bullets when you are a powerful telekinetic?

[OtterMommy]

Overall a good episode, but I seemed to focus on two relationship points.  I admit these are minor in the grand scheme of things, but--what can I say?--they are what jumped out on me.

 

I was a little weirded out by Coulson's dreams with Ros.  I guess that it is that I never really bought them as a couple--maybe as a casual fling, but definitely not an emotional (beyond general compassion) connection.  My first thought was that he was dream cheating on the Cellist from Portland....what was her name?  I remember she was played by Amy Acker.

 

I was also a little heartbroken by the hug Simmons gave Fitz...it seemed to me that he became her consolation prize and I really, really wanted him to be her choice.  Mournful sigh...

 

I don't know what I think about Zombie Will.  I'm not a fan of the undead in general, and I really don't like when a show makes one character into another character.  But, that being said, he definitely looked creepy standing there in the road.

 

I enjoyed the other characters and their interplay with each other, although Daisy was a little too--and this is actually the first time I've used this term--Special Snowflake tonight.  I sometimes feel like the show has allowed her character to get bigger than either it or she can handle.

[mommalib]

I don't think they presented it on the show that way though,  For the past two episodes, we didn't have Reasonable Coulson.  We had Mad With Vengeance In His Heart Coulson.  Add in the ridiculous soft focus pillow talk visions of Rosalind, and I don't see how we can see Coulson's change of heart as his just finally realizing Ward Had To Be Stopped.  Pillow Talk Visions are generally reserved for people who are grieving a loved one.  I don't think they would have taken up time in this episode for those visions with Rosalind if that wasn't Coulson's primary motivation.

It's a little of both Rosalind and the realization of the never ending war with Ward with the possibility of Ward hurting more people that motivated Coulson. But yes Rosalind was the primary motivation.

Overall a good episode, but I seemed to focus on two relationship points.  I admit these are minor in the grand scheme of things, but--what can I say?--they are what jumped out on me.

 

I was a little weirded out by Coulson's dreams with Ros.  I guess that it is that I never really bought them as a couple--maybe as a casual fling, but definitely not an emotional (beyond general compassion) connection.  My first thought was that he was dream cheating on the Cellist from Portland....what was her name?  I remember she was played by Amy Acker.

 

I was also a little heartbroken by the hug Simmons gave Fitz...it seemed to me that he became her consolation prize and I really, really wanted him to be her choice.  Mournful sigh...

 

I don't know what I think about Zombie Will.  I'm not a fan of the undead in general, and I really don't like when a show makes one character into another character.  But, that being said, he definitely looked creepy standing there in the road.

 

I enjoyed the other characters and their interplay with each other, although Daisy was a little too--and this is actually the first time I've used this term--Special Snowflake tonight.  I sometimes feel like the show has allowed her character to get bigger than either it or she can handle.

For Coulson I think Rosalind represents what he could possible have. But the job he has and the life he lives doesn't leave much room for romance. Rosalind was his chance and it was blown away literally.

[Fogh]

Simmons only saw Daisy and Mac first, so I think she was looking for Fitz and Will. Then when she saw Fitz and the expression on his face, she suspected Will wasn't with them but I think part of her was still hopeful until she peered into the box.

 

She was looking for Fitz and Will. When she saw Fitz she was surprised he was there. The eye-movement gave it away. She really thought none of them made it back. Then she was filled with a mix of relief and sadness which was great to see.

 

I was also a little heartbroken by the hug Simmons gave Fitz...it seemed to me that he became her consolation prize and I really, really wanted him to be her choice.  Mournful sigh...

 

 

Their story isn't over yet so we'll see how it pans out in 3 months.. argh 3 months.. so many days!

Edited December 9, 2015 by Fogh

[APSimpson]

Well, awkward. Didn't think it would come to this with my man Ward getting his chest crushed in by Coulson's rubber hand. Ouch. But hey, it's not like Ward didn't deserve all of this, but he ain't dead yet. Now we have four-hours-in-the-makeup-chair Ward to look forward to! Move over, Worf!

 

I think Fitz was the star of this episode; he held things together on the planet but too bad Will turned out to be a body snatcher. De Caestecker has a great scream, right up there with Harrison Ford.

 

Was it me or did Lincoln look like an extra keyboardist from Depeche Mode? Maybe it was the turtle neck.

 

The characters love to wear black. I get it, they're spies and agents and stuff, but why no yellow lycra outfits? They always had stuff like that in the comics.

 

Okay, silliness aside, it was a solid mid-finale, but I'm also left a bit bittersweet. Ward's transformation will be interesting, to say the least, but will his personality be intact? Will he be a voiceless zombie? Ward always talks about "adapting." I wonder how his character will adapt to this change. Part of me still has hope they can extract something of the human Ward, but why? There's nobody left that cares about him, really. Should be interesting to see what they do.

[Rocket]

Well Daisy who will be known sooner or later as Quake is a major power superhero. So any hope of her not being central died with that especially as I expect they hope to put her in a movie or two. I like it but your milage may vary. Also in the comics Quake is a super SHEILD agent ends up as director. 

 

I liked it. Congrats to those who predicted a possessed Ward return. 

 

Will need a explanation on the portal, way I do it is the being did not have the knowledge to find the location the portal should be but did have the power to reopen it before the nexus of location changed. 

 

HYDRA needs a breather or a secret training base or two, the current crop of troops don't seam that well trained in making parameters and guarding them.  I understand with all the loses HYDRA is scraping the bottom of the barrel. Would like it better if they had mentioned by passing sensors and taking out some guards for their secret entrance way. But hey crew of mostly ex cons might be that swift. 

[Ariah]

As far as mid-seasons finale go, this was... predictable. Really, we've predicted most options here, on this boards. And some of our ideas were much more interesting and logical!

 

But, to the point. It wasn't a bad episode, but it surely was not a ground-breaking one. Those who died, were either already dead or remained un-dead, so... no great loss. Main cast remains intact, but shaken. I'm not holding my breath till spring, I can wait in patience. It's better for my heart and liver, that's for sure. I appreciate that.

 

I liked that Jemma used her skills to free herself. Her freeing Andrew/Lash was a decision I would have made as well. Yes, it turned out to be lethal to innocents, yes, it may haunt her. But at that time, in that moment, it was the only decision she could have made.

 

Coulson... Oh, Coulson. You should have shot Ward in the head once you saw Fitz and Will in the distance. The Maveth crossing is on you.

(But you were a badass, I give you that)

 

Ward... I'd like to be able to say that you died with dignity and that your final moments were fine. But you went out like you lived most of the time - snarking at people who did nothing bad to you, jabbing weak puns. You shouldn't have gotten that "wailing music of sorrow" in your final moments. Still... We cannot say "rest in peace". Now your decomposing corpse (I guess that's what was happening to Will as well) will try to take over the world. But first, it needs a car. And a change of clothes.

As Maveth retained Wills' memories (was it lying in the cot dreaming of Jemma?), the creature now inhabiting Ward could be a shifty one at best. Will Ward's corpse try to flirt with Jemma? Maveth seemed pretty shippy on the Planet Blue,  mentioning that Simmons loves Fitz.
 

(Imagine: the evilest evil that ever eviled will spend its days drawing flowers and hearts around Jemma and Leo's pictures and thinking of a special scenario it can come up with to put these two together. "Put them in a container and drop them to the bottom of the sea", says inner!Ward. "It'll work as a charm!" "Shut up, Ward!" says Maveth, scribbling Jemma FitzSimmons on a piece of paper.)

 

 

Fitz on the planet was my favourite part (no woder, as Fitz is my favourite part always). I hope either Bobbi or Hunter teach him some self-defense moves, because even science nerds should know how to throw a punch and not get kicked around. True, Mav!Will was much heavier than him and couldn't feel pain, so on the whole Fitz did pretty good. Still, some basic self-defense wouldn't hurt. Maybe next half-season.

Also, one can always count on a Scottish engineer to talk ugly truths and some of the lines Fitz placed on Ward were golden. Topped with "Grow up, Ward" after Grand decided to tease about the linked beds. Silly Ward. Like that's the most important thing ever.

 

The flare shot to finish Mav!Will? Nicely done. Too bad it's going to be really tricky to explain to Jemma. I'm thinking some details will be left out... But once Maveth in Ward appears and starts spilling the beans... Oh boy. It's not going to be pretty.

 

But count me in as one of those who wanted Jemma to chose by herself and not by default. What is worse, Fitz will now feel guilty and - probably - unworthy. Which will give Ian good material to act and some great scenes, but also frustrate me to no ends.

 

Side note: that kiss between Lincoln and Daisy? No build-up. The guy just left her to possibly die in the rubble, orders be damned. And now he's kissing her because what? Reasons? (And I like Lincoln, really. But this scene just made me roll eyes so hard I sprained a muscle)

[Minneapple]

Well ding dong the Ward is dead. Although I knew he wouldn't really be, you know, Dead dead. So in his place we have Zombie Illyria Ward! Let's hope he talks less than Old Ward.

Love Director Mack. And Daisy being his partner. Also Daisy and Lincoln being cute upon their reunion, Fitz and Simmons' hug, May and Coulson's hug, Fitz's Look at Coulson. Joey geeking out over being bulletproof. Pretty much everything.

Good quotes:

Coulson: I'll be damned. Tatooine.

Lincoln: Good. I wouldn't want anyone knowing what I'm thinking now.

Joey: You mean that you're not a hero? You're freaking out, want to be anywhere but here?

Lincoln: We're all feeling that.

May: I'm not.

Hah! I love May.

Fitz: Hydra. Cut off one head, blah blah blah blah.

[Jeezaloo]

Zombie Illyria Ward!

Zombie Illyria GOA'ULD Ward! Cuz of the lil wormy bits up in his skull. Squirmin and such.

[Bats27]

It was a decent finale (Coulson killing Ward was hardcore, and I say that as someone who really liked Ward as a villain). But, I felt that too many important/interesting things happened offscreen:

-Remember how HYDRA was using the ACTU to stockpile Inhumans as weapons (and apparently succeeding)? Doesn't matter because Lash just kills them all OFFSCREEN, with just a couple of lines from May explaining it.

-So Will DID die protecting Simmons (called that btw), OFFSCREEN.

-Bobbi takes out like a dozen HYDEA goosn, OFFSCREEN.

-The Inhuman god-thing possessing Ward's body (which is a cool idea btw), and escapes, OFFSCREEN. They'd better have a really good explanation for how he escaped btw. 

-Etc.

 

For a "momentous" mid-season finale, this trend was disappointing.  Not BAD certainly, but not great either, just ok.  Oh and this episode REALLY didn't do anything to sell me on "killing Rosalind was the right move."  The whole "vengeance Coulson was even more pronounced here, and I hate that a cool character was blatantly fridged just for that.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I know Coulson wanted to end Ward (and I was totally fine with that) but I was yelling at my tv, "LESS STARING, MORE KILLING AND RUNNING!" Just kill the guy as quickly as possible and haul ass to the portal, damn it! Having this long staredown before actually killing him was such a waste of time that I thought Fitz was going to dive into the portal a millisecond before it closed and then Mac and the Power Rangers would have to spend 5B trying to get Coulson back out of the alien place.

 

I totally love Joey!

 

I keep hearing it in Butt-Head's voice. "Settle down, Maveth."

Ha, now that's what I'm going to hear in my head every time I see zombie Ward in 3B.

 

Did they actually use the name Maveth in the episode and I missed it?

Gideon and Simmons discussed Maveth while she was tied up.

[benteen]

He could have left his hand over guilt about killing someone in cold blood (though Ward deserved it).  I do recall seeing a movie where a character stabbed a man in revenge and then wiped his hand on the man's shirt because he had blood on it.  I think he wanted to get every trace of him off of him.  That's kind of what I saw Coulson doing.

 

While I would have liked to have seen Will get off the planet, the character wasn't that interesting that to have a longer role on Shield.  Poor Will though, he never got off of that planet.  At least he had Simmons with him the last few months of his life.

[jmonique]

I've met Brett Ward. He's a sweet guy, but he's not so great an actor that he really needs to be given a chance to chew the scenery as Zombie Ward. Put a bullet in his brain in the first 10 minutes of the next episode, burn the body and let Maveth jump ship into Lincoln...

 

Because so far, Lincoln is a bore. And the special effects for his powers looked really cheap last night. I'd rather have Deathlok back and working with the team, then Lincoln just there for SkDaisy to eventually nail.

[marceline]

I'm loving all the different references to Ward. It shows just how much of a trope this is.

 

Zombie Ward, Sylar Ward, Illyria Ward, etc... I hate the fact that he's still around. I grew Ward Bored a long time ago. I liked the fact Coulson killed him but hated how long he took to do it. I would've preferred a nice quick brutal death a la Jessica Jones. No longing looks or silent recriminations. Just take out the trash and get to the portal.

 

I felt for Jemma when May informed than that Andrew killed all the other inhumans. I didn't expect that and I doubt she did either. Everyone's going to have to come to terms with the fact that Andrew is gone and Lash is calling the shots even when he isn't in hedgehog form.

 

Poor Will. Like Sam Beckett, he never returned home.

Edited December 9, 2015 by marceline

[DeLurker]

But I'm wondering if Mark DaCaca is dead.  Lincoln fried him.  Why did Daisy stop him from finishing him off?  It would have taken a mere 10 more seconds.  I don't get why DaCaca didn't telekinetically blast Daisy directly.  Why raise a gun to shoot bullets when you are a powerful telekinetic?

I was thinking what a waste not to have more combat when you hire Mark D.  I love his cheesey suit-wearing self and he's awesome in fight scenes.

 

I was worried about Mack staying at the portal by himself - was thinking he would die and I would be very sad.  And then I saw him and there was much rejoicing.

 

ETA:  I guess Ward is only Mostly Dead.

Edited December 9, 2015 by DeLurker

[Raja]

I'm not giving Coulson the thumbs up for murdering Ward. I don't care that Ward is dead. He was an irredeemable crazy-pants. I just can't get down with crushing someone to death. That is up close and creepy. He could have shot Ward in the damn head and been done with all of it. But he had to pretend Ward to be the good guy and that Ward wasn't going to keep pushing it. Then man was lying prone on the ground, and looked to already be dying. Crushing a man's organs with your robotic hand is a super weird way to kill someone. And, I'd imagine painful for the victim. I know Ward was literally the worst, I just think this doesn't say anything great about Coulson. He has engaged in more purposeful acts of wanton murder than any of the Avengers.

The murder method seems to be the thing this year for Marvel judging from Captain America The Civil War trailer 

It seems similar to The Winter Soldier/Bucky's method of dealing with armored fighting suis

 

 

 

I'm not sure that's going to happen very quickly. Honestly, I don't think it's Fitz shooting Not!Will that will upset Jemma and distract her. It's her own actions - the look on her face when she realized all those Inhumans died because she let Lash out of his containment box seemed to indicate to me that she's going to be feeling that responsibility pretty heavily. 

I was watching on our smaller screen but they did flash on two of the names on the ATCU pods. I am thinking it was  Rodriguez and Gray may have survived Lash's killing spree given and the missile strike like Ward/whatever he is now

the casting announcement of YoYo Rodriguez joining the show.

[Bishop]

I was happy with the finale, but didn't like that Will was dead.

 

I was suspicious of Will once Fitz found him because Will would have had more of a reaction to seeing Fitz, and there would have been a lot more questions, imo.  Will didn't even ask about Jemma, which sent up a huge red flag for me.  So at least I sort of suspected from the very beginning that he was the "Dark One."  I'm just sorry to say goodbye to the character.  I took Jemma's reaction to Fitz at the end to be the acceptance that Will is dead when she hugged Fitz, but she was not unhappy to see Fitz at all.  I would be upset too to know the guy who risked his life to send me home died doing so, but she also has to love that Fitz literally went to another planet to get the guy back.  I don't see any issues between Jemma and Fitz over this, but then again, what exactly was the purpose of Will if he was simply going to die?  More Fitz/Simmons angst?

 

I'm meh about Ward's death.  He certainly had to die because the character had no layers or nuance.  He was just evil and a sociopath at this point.  I would have preferred if Ward had some of those layers, but since he didn't, I'm not sorry to see him go.  At least we are going to have the actor around (which is fine) as he plays the new alien leader.

 

I did enjoy Joey's "I'm so cool.  I actually have super powers" reactions to everything he was doing.  I like Lincoln, and I like the juxtaposition of the nerdy Joey against the cynical Lincoln.  I just think that combo works for the inhumans,  I'm wondering now that Andrew is loose - and just killed a crap load of inhumans - if he's going to go after Lincoln again.  I would like to see more Lincoln and May.  The opposites of the two characters in personality is a nice dynamic, and I've liked all their scenes together.  So putting Andrew between them might be interesting from a character standpoint.  

 

Mack was awesome.  

Edited December 9, 2015 by Bishop

[shrewd.buddha]

So Fitz kills and incinerates Simmons' Space Boyfriend ... but not really.. since he was dead anyway.

And Coulson finishes off Ward ... but not really.. since we still have Zombie Ward to deal with. 

 

We honestly had no idea that Coulson was killing Ward with his robot hand ... because a robot hand should have no effect on how hard you can push down -- crushing things in your grip, yes, but not pushing...

 

It also bugged me how quickly Coulson killed the other two Hydra agents, who really had no time to react to Coulson even being there, much less raise their weapons. Was it any less cold-blooded than how Coulson killed Ward? If Coulson had just shot all three dead at the same time would it be more justified? 

Also -- Ward's speechifiying at the end was just nonsense. 

And since Zombie Ward made it back from Plant Blue Filter, that means Shield left behind the stones needed to access the portal -- which means Hydra could have continued to try to bring back The Great Evil as often as they wanted -- not that it matters now .... we all knew The Great Evil was coming back to Earth, because that's how SHIELD rolls. 

 

Andrew should have been put in amber hibernation a long time ago -- that was what was supposed to slow down his permanent transformation to Hedgehog killer ... but he wasn't because .. plot trumps logic.. 

 

And besides animating the dead, what great power does this Inhuman god-like being have, anyway? 

Edited December 9, 2015 by shrewd.buddha

[Julie23]

Ward is dead! Long live Ward. sigh. Someone there in AOS land really likes Brett Dalton. Why can't we just be rid of him once and for al? But no, somehow he jumped through the thinny and is possessed by Croatoan (sorry, wrong show).

Up to that last scene, I​ really liked this episode. Suspense, humor, action. Maybe not enough action, but still pretty good suspense. I was so worried Fitz was going to be killed.

Mack: "Are we supposed to follow her or...?" made me laugh out loud. . 

[KirkB]

And besides animating the dead, what great power does this Inhuman god-like being have, anyway?

 

 

Good question. As I see it. three possibilities.

 

1) We haven't actually seen what if can do yet. 

2) It's going to be a while before it's back to full strength.

3) Hydra just THOUGHT it was a god-like being and it's really not that special.

Edited December 9, 2015 by KirkB

[FurryFury]

If anyone here has watched/read Fullmental Alchemist, I'm starting to wonder if the whole thing with Ward/Maveth is not going to go down the same way as Kimbley/Pride - by which I mean, an irredeemably evil villain, already "fused" with an even bigger evil guy, going out in a blaze of glory by helping the heroes defeat the creature from the inside. It was a really cool moment. Anyway, I kinda hope that we'll see the original recipe Ward at least once again because dammit, he was so fun. Most of the characters of the show tend to feel dull to me, and only the villains really stand out - Ward, Garrett, Cal (Cal, oh how I miss you!)

 

Still don't really care about Fitz. I know I'm alone in that, so sue me.

 

Bummed Will died. He had potential, and such a great backstory with the sole survivor stuff. Lots of "fish out of the water" potential there (why the hell did they make Lincoln not grow up in Afterlife? He could have been a much more unique character, not this generic dud).

 

Mack's da boss. I think he's one of my favorite characters of the show right now.

 

I'm weirdly missing the focus on Skye/Daisy. Maybe because FitzSimmons bores me so much. I hope to learn more about Inhumans, Maveth and that planet soon. Nice to see Malick is still kicking, he would be a good source of info.

[OtterMommy]

As far as mid-seasons finale go, this was... predictable. Really, we've predicted most options here, on this boards. And some of our ideas were much more interesting and logical!

 

(snip)

 

Side note: that kiss between Lincoln and Daisy? No build-up. The guy just left her to possibly die in the rubble, orders be damned. And now he's kissing her because what? Reasons? (And I like Lincoln, really. But this scene just made me roll eyes so hard I sprained a muscle)

 

Re Jemma:  I don't think it will be a big deal.  Once Fitz explains to her that the "real" Will died when she left and the zombie worm had taken over his body, she'll understand.  Remember, this is a woman who released Lash who, while maybe not knowing, at least considered the possibility that he would kill the other inhumans (at least that is what I got from her hesitation when he asked her to release him).  Jemma understands that, sometimes, death is really the only option.

 

Lincoln and Daisy, ugh....Not that I dislike either of them especially (although I wish Daisy was a little toned down at times and Lincoln had a bit more personality), but I don't need any more romantic relationships in this show.  We have Fitz and Simmons, which is great.  We have Bobbi and Hunter, which is entertaining, even if it gets old.  We have May and Andrew/Lash, which hits the heartache buttons.  We don't need another pairing.

[Fogh]

But count me in as one of those who wanted Jemma to chose by herself and not by default. What is worse, Fitz will now feel guilty and - probably - unworthy. Which will give Ian good material to act and some great scenes, but also frustrate me to no ends.

 

Side note: that kiss between Lincoln and Daisy? No build-up. The guy just left her to possibly die in the rubble, orders be damned. And now he's kissing her because what? Reasons? (And I like Lincoln, really. But this scene just made me roll eyes so hard I sprained a muscle)

 

I laughed out loud at your side note - totally agree.

 

As for FitzSimmons, I actually thought of a scenario based on Fitz feeling maybe not unworthy but a consolation price. It's in their thread. Maybe gimme your thoughts? :)

[Primetimer]

The Inhuman Squad gets its first workout, and a certain nameless blue planet returns.

Read the story

[fuzzysneakers]

Get a new villain. Quit holding on to Ward in any incarnation. Just move on!

 

Agreed.

On a side note FiveByFive, when I read your post, all I could think of was Mean Girls "Stop trying to make Fetch happen", lol.

[kennyab]

It also bugged me how quickly Coulson killed the other two Hydra agents, who really had no time to react to Coulson even being there, much less raise their weapons. Was it any less cold-blooded than how Coulson killed Ward? If Coulson had just shot all three dead at the same time would it be more justified? 

 

Andrew should have been put in amber hibernation a long time ago -- that was what was supposed to slow down his permanent transformation to Hedgehog killer ... but he wasn't because .. plot trumps logic..

 

Coulson's essentially in a combat situation on an alien planet. I have no problem with him taking down Hydra goons like that.

 

SHIELD and Roz thought that Andrew was being placed in hibernation, but Malick wanted him to join Hydra as Lash. They specifically didn't want him in stasis.

[Ariah]

On a rewatch (yes, don't judge me too harshly) I looked for things signifying Will is no longer human:

- the head/neck movement he does when answering Ward's question how long he had been on the planet "Seems like forever"

- the "I can leave" phrase instead of "I can go home" which would have been more natural

- asking Fitz about Hydra and gathering intel on how are things back on Earth

- chosing knife over gun to kill the Hydra goons. The knife is something more familiar to an ancient inhuman

- and the great reveal preceded by a knowledge info-dump.

 

Now, I don't know why the Inhuman was sleeping in Will's bed. Perhaps each time it jumps host, it mergest with the persona to an extent? And as such the Mav!Will still felt for Jemma, liked his cave and would have been looking through selfies if he had a phone. 

When Fitz found him, he was initially too surpised to act (seeing all these new people around, so many choices) but then he realized it's his ticked back to Earth, so he played along. When he asked Fitz if Ward was the one to figure out how the portal works, he was assessing who he needs alive - when Fitz admited he was the one to get the portal working, Mav!Will decided to keep him close and lose Hydra goons, who were a tad upredictable.

I kind of think Mav!Will liked Fitz, but once the secret was out, he had to kill him.

 

Now I wonder if Mav!Ward will keep part of his magnetic personality.

[BRWombat]

All those attempts at naming the planet, and "Bluto" never occurred to you?

[tv echo]

Hi Will!  Bye Will!  What was the point of Will anyway, if he wasn't going to make it back through the portal and/or become the new host of the Ancient Inhuman?  I wonder if they originally planned to have Will be the new host and kill off Ward permanently (replacing one hunk with another), but someone higher up wanted to keep Brett Dalton so they switched the host to Ward and killed off Will?

 

When did Roz become Coulson's Big Love?  All those flashback memories or hallucinations of them in bed and then Roz going all Trinity on him ("Get up!") - just no.

 

I still can't believe that Coulson defeated Ward in hand-to-hand combat.  I find that more unbelievable than the existence of all the Inhumans put together.  I will never buy Coulson as a badass fighter.  Have we ever seen Coulson even working out or training?

 

The portal's closing, but Coulson takes the time to pause for a LONG time looking at Ward's body and then SLOWLY walking toward Fitz.  That was the slowest rapidly-closing portal ever.

 

Coulson just gets more annoying every season.

 

But I liked the rest of the SHIELD team in this episode.  Jemma and Fitz are quickly becoming my favorite characters on the show.

Edited December 9, 2015 by tv echo

[marcee]

I think another point that should be made is that if Coulson was "in his right mind" and not bent on revenge, he might've left Ward lying there, alive. Had he left Ward alive, but trapped on that planet, the Evil!Alien wouldn't have immediately had another body to jump into and wouldn't have made it back through the portal in time and they'd both be stuck there. See? Revenge is bad.

[sinkwriter]

I suppose Evil!Alien could have jumped into the bodies of any of the Hydra agents that came along on the mission. But then we wouldn't care one way or another because Red Shirt Hydra agents have no name or personality. Evil!Alien had to escape somehow, so it was either going to be via Will's body or by killing Ward, Coulson or Fitz.

 

Actually, you'd think an ancient being would have had time to learn better stealth - way to accidentally reveal yourself as Not!Will by yammering on to Fitz about civilizations Will wouldn't know about.

Side note: I've really grown to love Hunter. He was cracking me up, with his hand waving to show where they were on the heat sensor screen and his "Just so you all know, if a monster comes through that portal, I'll probably run." LOL. I thought he was going to be a pointless addition to the show, once upon a time, but I really like him now.

[emma675]

I thought it was a good finale. I was actually surprised at how sad I was when it was revealed that Will had died right after Jemma went back through the portal. Poor guy, he struggled for so long, got a little bit of hope and then was mowed down by the very thing he had been running from for so long. Just brutal. I kind of picked up that Will wasn't really Will when he did that weird little head tilt when Fitz first found him, but I kept hoping I was wrong. Poor Will, poor Fitz and poor Jemma. They all got the short end of the stick.

 

And Ward needed to die, but I was a little surprised by how up close and vicious his death was. Phil crossed over into a scary place to do that. 

 

 

I keep hearing it in Butt-Head's voice. "Settle down, Maveth."

This cracked me up! And I love that Zombie Ward did the same little weird head tilt as Zombie Will did. Nice continuity. 

[mommalib]

Hi Will!  Bye Will!  What was the point of Will anyway, if he wasn't going to make it back through the portal and/or become the new host of the Ancient Inhuman?  I wonder if they originally planned to have Will be the new host and kill off Ward permanently (replacing one hunk with another), but someone higher up wanted to keep Brett Dalton so they switched the host to Ward and killed off Will?

 

When did Roz become Coulson's Big Love?  All those flashback memories or hallucinations of them in bed and then Roz going all Trinity on him ("Get up!") - just no.

 

I still can't believe that Coulson defeated Ward in hand-to-hand combat.  I find that more unbelievable than the existence of all the Inhumans put together.  I will never buy Coulson as a badass fighter.  Have we ever seen Coulson even working out or training?

 

The portal's closing, but Coulson takes the time to pause for a LONG time looking at Ward's body and then SLOWLY walking toward Fitz.  That was the slowest rapidly-closing portal ever.

 

Coulson just gets more annoying every season.

 

But I liked the rest of the SHIELD team in this episode.  Jemma and Fitz are quickly becoming my favorite characters on the show.

Coulson is awesome and he was badass in this episode.

[Tiger]

Good question. As I see it. three possibilities.

 

1) We haven't actually seen what if can do yet. 

2) It's going to be a while before it's back to full strength.

3) Hydra just THOUGHT it was a god-like being and it's really not that special.

This episode had a lot of 'blatantly conserving budget', that I kept expecting a big display of power from the Creature.

Maybe they're stashing cash to make the Civil War adjacent episodes as splashy as possible?

they're Maybe they

[DeLurker]

 

- chosing knife over gun to kill the Hydra goons. The knife is something more familiar to an ancient inhuman

I assumed this was on the basis of keeping the kills quiet so as not to alert Evil Ward and the Hydra red Shirts.

 

But a heaping helping of Handwavium is always required...which I am ok with.

[Tarasme]

 "I am...Mavith."

With a weird "Young Frankestein" lisp to go with... "May-vith! May-vith!"

 

I thought the ep was a nice denouement from last week's kills and peril. Though tPtB attempted to raise the tension factor for Phil and Fitz- mostly by dragging out the never ending minute that the portal was open/closing, I never really thought either of them would get trapped on darkplanet.

 

The "that damned body jumping Inhuman had better not be in Coulson or Fitz" thought did cross my mind. I'm oddly glad that it was Ward... And please don't judge that I found bruised bloody clearly dead Ward even hotter than smarmy alive arm porn Ward. Man that camera scan up from him holding Coulson's death dealing hand of destiny was all kinds of yummy.

 

Don't judge!

 

Yay to a great big ensemble mission. It was both serious and fun and a nice little win for SHIELD. Sort of a win. Well... right now, they think it's a win anyway.

 

Special points to Mack, Bobbi, Hunter... "Are we supposed to follow her?" And Hunter's waiving to show they're them on infrared. Ha!

 

I, like a few posting above, liked the juxtaposition of Lincoln and Joey. I don't care that much one way or another about Lincoln and Daisy or, really, just Lincoln period but I'm willing to keep him around as a functioning "girlfriend" to our heroine.

 

After all the angsty peril, Jemma and Fitz need to go on vacation. Preferably someplace where their curse will cause little collateral damage.

 

More shameless StarWars plugs by the Man (otherwise known as Disney/ ABC). You'd think there was a movie coming out or something.

 

Not sure how I feel about Will. I'm not a fan of killing a character immediately after he or she builds a rapport/ affair/ close friendship with a main character (AHEMROZ) and I don't like it with relation to Jemma and Will. It's cheap. Now, if Will had died BEFORE "he" met Jemma- if Jemma actually had a relationship it Mavith, *that* would be interesting. I wonder if Mavith is a trustworthy narrator...

 

I'm looking forward to knowing more about Mavith the Inhuman and the darkplanet and it's civilization and the whole "they had their chance..." nonsense. Seems clear that Mavith has access to its host's knowledge- at least in part. This puts Jemma and Fitz squarely in the crosshairs of the antagonist- again. I'm kinda tired of those two being in peril. But then, maybe Ward's Coulson hate will trump whatever manipulation could occur because of Jemma & Will.

 

Poor Melinda and poor me. Poor Melinda because of Andrew angst, poor me because even though May was present, she was barely there.  

 

Good times. Around Feb 1 I'm gonna start having withdrawals. Here's hoping they can take March and April's eps and integrate them nicely with May's CA:CW premiere.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Tarasme

[Minneapple]

While I would have liked to have seen Will get off the planet, the character wasn't that interesting that to have a longer role on Shield.  Poor Will though, he never got off of that planet.  At least he had Simmons with him the last few months of his life.

 

Yeah. I started thinking about it, what it would be like if Will got off the planet, and I was like, "oh great...this storyline could be really tedious and it's not like I'm that invested in Will that I would care about him acclimating to Earth in 2015 and being in a love triangle with Fitz and Simmons." And then Will was evil and died, so I guess it doesn't matter. 

 

And Coulson and his revenging -- well, I don't care because his revenging led to WARD'S DEATH. Okay, sort of death. 

 

And besides animating the dead, what great power does this Inhuman god-like being have, anyway?

 

Also, how powerful can he be if he needs a Giant Army of Inhumans? Or maybe he doesn't need a Giant Army of Inhumans and that was just Malick being crazy.

[KirkB]

Coulson meets the creature.

 

I am...Maveth.

Mavis?

No, Maveth.

That's what I said. Mavis.

No. You're not listening, human. Maveth. May-veth.

Oh. Sorry. Ward had a bit of a lisp.

I hate this planet.

[Crim]

Thank you, tumblr! I totally forgot this episode aired, but then I saw a rant about Ward being dead. Spoiling the entire episode was exactly what I needed to watch it, especially to actually finish it: it was still tremendously boring, but at least I knew there will be a sweet payoff at the end. Ward's higher purpose speech didn't just make no sense, it was also badly delivered. Was it supposed to come off as earnest? But wait, I don't have to waste one more thought on it because Ward is dead.

 

"Grow up, Ward" was the best line of the episode. Good fuckin' riddance!

 

Ward was Sylar-ed awhile ago, but he will never be as awesome as Illyria. I hoped he'd stay on that planet for at least the next 2 or 3 story lines or, even better, seasons. Since we now know the Inhuman retains (some of) the host's memories, Ward is not dead enough, damn it! I will check the forums to see if he is benched for awhile. If he is not, it's been a pleasure, but my time with the show ends here.

[Bats27]

I seem to be in the minority here, but I really liked Ward as a villain (sorry, but I just find him really entertaining).  Actually, I find him to be one of the better MCU villains honestly.  And I quite like Brett Dalton.  So I'm more than happy that they found a way to keep him around for at least a little longer.