B&B: What's Up Today at Forrester Creations? - Daily Chat

[nasir jones]

I could do without Caroline's "What kind of woman do you think I am?" screeching.  We've seen what kind of woman you are and family members aren't beyond your moral code.  She has every right to talk about not consenting.  The other stuff... just leave that alone.

[tricknasty]

Wait a minute. What’s going on here? Is it the same day or the following day? I find it hard to believe Brooke and Ridge stayed up all night talking. I also find it hard to believe that Caroline and Thomas took an hour nap and woke up sober.

Edited September 2, 2015 by tricknasty

[Joimiaroxeu]

What is JMW trying to hide with that mess on her head? It is so ridiculous, IMO of course.

 

I see where this thing with Caroline and Thomas might go. It's the "just because you can't remember what happened that doesn't mean it was rape" angle. And some victim-blaming is queued up too because Caroline took non-prescribed tranquilizers and then drank a lot of wine. AFAIC, Thomas is shady and he knows he took advantage of her. I hope she tells Ridge but she probably won't because she feels guilty. Ridge will likely find out because Thomas decides put out a self-serving spin on what happened.

Is it the same day or the following day?

I think it might be several hours later the same day. It was probably early evening when Thomas got to Caroline’s hotel suite. But on the other hand, Ridge and Brooke may have in fact stayed up all night talking because it’s so important for her to be all up in his business.

[Whitley Trillbert]

Lindsay is getting some amazing material and she's doing a great job with it, but in the process, Thomas, a character I've never really liked to begin with, has been further ruined. He's creepy and took advantage. yes she shouldn't have mixed pills and alcohol,. but Thomas not knowing she took pills, ISN'T a defense.

 

 

Like father, like son...

Ridge did the same thing to Brooke a few years back. Brad Bell's love for recycling stories is obviously as strong as ever.

[SweePea59]

Good point, this was the equivalent of boinkberries. LG has been spectacular these last few days. As for Brooke as she harasses Ridge, I'd just like to ask, "What's it ta you?"

Well, when TKRidge telephoned Caroline for whatever reason after he broke up with her, he did it in front of Brooke with Brooke right there in the room listening to whatever the hell he was going to say to Caroline. Very disrespectful to Caroline, even though she'll never know. So apparently he does feel that it's Brooke's business. More so even than Caroline's.

 

Is that a product from Jabot Cosmetics?

Heavens no. It's from the revived Brass n' Sassy line, Newman Enterprise's "we can do that too" cosmetics brand.

Brilliant!

[Foghorn Leghorn]

LG is doing a great job with the acting but please take the decibels down a notch!  Screeching is a great word!  I can't stop looking at her white nails though.  I would love to see her with her natural hair color to go with the black eyebrows!  

 

TK's voice drives me crazy and not in a good way.  I feel like he needs to gargle or cough up phlegm and please act like the person who grew up in wealth and style instead of this bohemian look.  Take a shower, shave your face and style that hair.  He needs a makeover pronto!

 

Steffy's hair saga continues, maybe she has a bet on or something, this has got to be a joke!  What right does she have to barge into Ivy's house demanding Wyatt destroy all copies of the videos NOW!  GMAFB!

[NinjaPenguins]

Thomas makes me ill. His actions make me ill. This is just too uncomfortable for me to watch. I'd rather watch Liam squint his way through a Bob Hope movie marathon. Or slides from Rick's honeymoon. Or a test pattern.

[Bill C.]

Linsey Godfrey rocked in today's episode, but as I put it on Twitter: Thomas and Caroline now are Ridge and Brooke circa spring 2006--complete with meds, if memory serves.  And that realization that they're going to that particular well again--and this time with a more openly aware-of-what's-happening male partner in Thomas (I couldn't help thinking that his entire attempt to explain/justify the whole thing to Caroline smacked far too much of spin control, and I'm not sure if that was to benefit Thomas or us because it really didn't work)--bugs the hell out of me.

[LittleIggy]

Thomas is disgusting. Caroline was clearly drunk and emotionally devastated. He took advantage of her altered mental state. So what if he didn't know about the pills. I'd call him a pig, but I would be insulting some very smart animals.

As for Wyatt, he better not do what Steffy wants. If Ivy hasn't made a thousand copies of that video, she is nuts.

[KerleyQ]

I see where this thing with Caroline and Thomas might go. It's the "just because you can't remember what happened that doesn't mean it was rape" angle. And some victim-blaming is queued up too because Caroline took non-prescribed tranquilizers and then drank a lot of wine. AFAIC, Thomas is shady and he knows he took advantage of her. I hope she tells Ridge but she probably won't because she feels guilty. Ridge will likely find out because Thomas decides put out a self-serving spin on what happened.

 

This just makes me think that the real reason Ron Carlivati was fired from GH was because he had been going behind ABC's back and submitting script ideas to B&B.  This shit is right out of his twisted playbook. 

 

The really disturbing part of all of this is that this is basically a creepier version of how Rick and Maya got together - he was devastated over Caroline/Ridge, he went to the cabin and tied one on, and she followed up to make sure to cushion his fall with her naked body.  If this is their lead up to a Caroline/Thomas pairing, I may be done.  

[Kitty Redstone]

LG is so very good, especially when contrasted with JMW, who inexplicably gets worse with practice.  I felt so bad for Caroline, desperately trying to understand what happened all while idiot Thomas blathered on how beautiful it was.  Gross and creepy.

 

Steffie's attempts at manipulation were about as subtle as a hammer.  And yes, what the hell is up with that nest on her head!  There really are no words for it.  Ditto for KKL, who looks terrible with that limp, corn yellow hair.

 

This article was posted on the GH board.  It goes a long way to explaining the repetitive dialog on this show.  They can just recycle yesterday's lines tomorrow and the next day to avoid paying writers for something new everyday.

Edited September 3, 2015 by Kitty Redstone

[KerleyQ]

Thomas and his "we made love" - what a fucking creeper.  

 

And Steffy, give me a thousand breaks with that "you need to do the right thing!" ranting at Wyatt.  Yes, we all recall how into "doing the right thing" you were when you were desperately trying to keep Hope and Liam away from each other.  Or when you came home for a visit and dangled your support of an FC takeover in front of Liam if he'd just dump his girlfriend and hop into your bed.  Oh, wait, you mean "the right thing" for you.  

[404notfound]

I could do without Caroline's "What kind of woman do you think I am?" screeching.  We've seen what kind of woman you are and family members aren't beyond your moral code.  She has every right to talk about not consenting.  The other stuff... just leave that alone.

I am 100% certain that you favorite character is the living embodiment of virtue, chosen by the creator of universe himself. 

Edited September 3, 2015 by sweetautumn

[slayer2]

Nobody ever wants Thomas. If they do, it's because they want something from him because of who he is, but nobody ever wants him for him. Amber deflowered him when he was 15, but only because she was trying to make Rick jealous. Gabriella married him because otherwise she was going to get deported. I think Daisy was slightly interested but not sure what happened. Caroline didn't want him. Hope didn't want him. Brooke didn't want him, it was the boinkberries. Loser.

True, poor Thomas. If they go this "Thomas is a rapist" route I'll fucking lose it. According to Caroline, Caroline is NEVER fucking responsible for anything she does. Sure blame Thomas that you took drugs and and then texted Thomas an address broke out a bottle of wine and downed it. Fuck off Caroline. Seriously. And this "I'm not that kinda girl, crap" Bethe please, you're the same girl who showed up in your underwear at Rick's when he was full-fledged relationship mode with Maya and full-on hurled your vagina at him. Time to take some fucking responsibility for the shitty choices you make in life. Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for you, asshole.

On the note of rape, No. I see the line getting wider and wider. A girl voluntarily without anyone's knowledge takes two anxiety pills then of her own suggestion and volition, downs a bottle of wine with a guy then sleeps with him and it's rape? The insinuation is disgusting IMO.

I'm as feminist as they come but part of feminism is holding yourself accountable for the choices you voluntarily make. Nobody gave Caroline the pills, she fucking took them herself, nobody gave Caroline the wine, she fucking ordered it herself. Where is the line here to be drawn about rape? It isn't rape simply because a woman is unhappy with her bad decision and to that end it isn't non-consensual if they are both of age and the man doesn't know she's been a pill-head before they started drinking (at her behest). This is garbage.

Rape is abhorrent, there is no word to describe it. But on a lesser level what is also disgusting is false accusations of rape. Protecting women doesn't automatically negate the rights of men. Caroline is an adult, she made her choices, she and she alone was privy to all the details regarding that choice, that she expects Thomas to have some x-ray vision and see into her stomach of pills is complete and utter garbage IMO, garbage.

ETA Dayzee did love Thomas but he disappointed her by following his sociopathic grandmother instead of doing what was right. This would be a good time to being Dayzee back because this Melanie Layton "I'm so perfect" crap that Caroline is pulling is really grating on me.

Edited September 3, 2015 by slayer2

[Sayla Vee]

The Age Question:  Only Brad Bell knows for sure how old these characters are supposed to be, but if you go by the story lines, Brooke, and Ridge, too, are damned old.  Last time Hope's age came up, she was saying she was 22.  Since her big sister was married (maybe at age 18?) to Hope's daddy, this would make Bridget at least 40.  Rick is older than Bridget, but I don't remember by how much; maybe 42.  Brooke graduated from college with a degree in chemistry before going to work at FC, so that makes her at the very least 22 having Rick, for a grand total of 64 years old.  And that makes the baby she just lost truly a miracle from Above.

 

Loved Ridge and Caroline together.  I literally smiled while watching them.  But no more.  What Ridge did to Caroline today was more cruel than anything anyone should do, never mind to someone you love.  Then to compound it, he lets hours go by, calls her and is surprised to hear she's crying.  What a piece of crud.  I can never enjoy them together again.

 

Too many people have too much hair.  Yes, Steffy has way more hair than she or anyone else should have, but so does her father.  At least Steffy's looks clean.  I love the acting job TK is doing, but just hate his appearance.  Sorry to say that because he's still prettier than I am, but don't like the house he lives in, his clothes, his scruff, his hair, his manners.

 

Lord knows, I don't want to get into a discussion of Hope vs Steffy ever again, but I think people are either blaming the actress way too much or giving her way too much credit.  Not sure which because Liam is supposed to be the prize and he's just not (even though I like SC the actor).  Yes, indeed, Steffy did interfere in the relationship between Hope and Liam, but the one segment that really had me staring at my TV slack-jawed was the one where Ridge and Taylor are standing over their unconscious daughter, and Hope is in the hallway outside the room in a bikini bra exhorting Liam to go in and tell Steffy it's over between them and that he has chosen Hope.  She even stopped by daily while Steffy was on bed rest in her own home to make sure Liam understood that he had to do this.  I know that's how the writers set it up, but I thought this was the worst way possible that it could be written.  All the other crap, no matter who did what, was just part of prolonging the crappy triangle.  One girl was just as bad as the other.  

 

Still not bothered by the new Thomas.  I think the young man who plays him is good looking, and I think he will develop more chemistry with his fellow cast mates as he gets to know them.  I'm not sure he has even been on my screen yet for as much as 25 minutes, so I'm still going to give him some time.  My biggest problem with him is the stupid dialogue and story lines they are putting him in, and I hope that gets better.  

 

In fact, I hope the story lines get better for each and every actor, even Nicole.  Well maybe not Nicole.

[SweePea59]

At this moment in time, it seems like Thomas is upset too and did not think that he was doing anything wrong. Let's see how today's episode play out. But although he is a creepy creeper who creeps, at this moment in time, it seems his only mistake was bad judgement about being with Caroline the moment she broke up with his dad. (It squicks me out just to type that.) I do wish that we the viewers had seen more of their beautiful love-making than just that first willing kiss. Seeing more would not have prevented me from understanding Caroline's point of view, but it would help with seeing Thomas' point of view. Maybe there's a flashback to come?

[404notfound]

Bravo! Bravo! Someone should make phone calls to President Obama and Congress, ask them to draft new law saying, It is ok to take advantage of a woman in vulnerable situation; It is ok to proceed having sex with a woman who was clearly not in condition, who repeated over  and over that she's in love with another man. 

 

Oh btw, If you truly care about someone and consider her as a friend, Wouldn't you tell her to stop drinking immediately ?  Wouldn't you pour her a cup of coffee, listened to her, respected her or call doctors to check on her?  Of course, it is totally ok for you to make a move on a weeping, devastated and emotionally unstable woman who spends the entire time talking about how much she loves someone else? But it is not ok for victim take take medication to release pain and anxiety? Oh for god's sake, we live in 21st century not 18 century. 

 

Not sure how many of you watched Buffy the Vampire Slayer.  Cordelia was Buffy's archenemy in high school, but even Buffy would never really wish bad things happen to her.  I may not like a character on tv or someone in real life, but I never wish they go through something like Caroline did. And then saying she deserve it.  I wouldn't sink that low.

Edited September 3, 2015 by sweetautumn

[Joimiaroxeu]

And if she's drunk and/or on any measure of medication/drugs, she loses her right to have consensual sex and becomes open season for any guy willing to take advantage of her weakened state, especially if he has enough moral depravity not to think he's doing anything wrong. I really don't care about Caroline's past; at that particular moment in time I think she had the right not to have some guy throw his penis into her without her being fully aware of what was happening. I hate storylines like this because generally what it leads to is more victim-blaming and people trying to define situations when it might be acceptable to take advantage of someone sexually. (And frankly, the genders could be reversed and I'd feel the same way. AFAIC, this isn't a "feminism" issue.)

[404notfound]

That's why I think Ridge deserve a slap across the face by Caroline today.  If he told Caroline the truth, none of this would happen. Doesn't he understand this cruel to be kind tactic will backfire on him?   

[Bill C.]

To be fair (after a fashion), "be cruel to be kind" is a grimly running gag with this show going way back.  And it being Ridge just makes it...not even worse.  Just typical.  Guy breaks up with girl--or vice versa--"for their own good," or "because I love them too much to stay with them--they want something I can't give them," then they get talked into a possible reversal of that decision by their closest confidant...which of course occurs after the person they broke up with has gotten into some sort of situation involving somebody else.  This isn't exactly what happened with Ridge and Brooke a few years back, but it's close enough that I'm still not crazy about it.

[NinjaPenguins]

Come on, people, lighten up! What's Thomas supposed to do when presented with an empty vagina? He's a man, and men have needs. That's just biology.

There's Caroline, with her inhibitions lowered and vulnerable due to a sudden and unexpected break-up...why not just put on a T-shirt that says "take me now!" She let him in. It's like when you unknowingly allow a vampire to cross your threshold; when you're left a bloodless husk, that's on you.

Caroline was also speaking the language of love. To be fair, it's a very complex, nuanced language, so allow me to translate. You're welcome.

"I don't know how NOT to love him (your dad)!" actually means "Person I do not love, have unprotected sexytimes with me while I'm a hot mess." There's probably a Rosetta Stone program for those who don't speak Love. Order it.

Now, let's talk about true love and healthy relationships. With my years of not being married and the scrapbook detailing my last romance gathering dust on a shelf, I'm something of an expert. It's tempting to comfort the distraught object of your affections with kind words, compassionate advice, and putting your own desires aside. Resist. Use the situation to your own sexual advantage instead. Your crush might be angry or hurt at first, but they'll eventually look back on your history of badmouthing their current partner and insinuating yourself into their personal space and workplace and probably not file a restraining order.

You go, Thomas. Preferably straight to hell.

Edited September 3, 2015 by NinjaPenguins

[tessaray]

At this moment in time, it seems like Thomas is upset too and did not think that he was doing anything wrong. Let's see how today's episode play out. But although he is a creepy creeper who creeps, at this moment in time, it seems his only mistake was bad judgement about being with Caroline the moment she broke up with his dad. (It squicks me out just to type that.) I do wish that we the viewers had seen more of their beautiful love-making than just that first willing kiss. Seeing more would not have prevented me from understanding Caroline's point of view, but it would help with seeing Thomas' point of view. Maybe there's a flashback to come?

 

When she was lying on the bed, I didn't see a willing kiss, just a passive, no resistance, completely out of it Caroline being kissed by a Thomas who was just drunk enough to shed any compunctions about taking advantage of his ex/colleague/potential stepmother.  But hey, she didn't say no, right?  

[404notfound]

When she was lying on the bed, I didn't see a willing kiss, just a passive, no resistance, completely out of it Caroline being kissed by a Thomas who was just drunk enough to shed any compunctions about taking advantage of his ex/colleague/potential stepmother.  But hey, she didn't say no, right?  

She repeat three times that he's a good friend through her foggy mind before end up unconscious. He probably took it as an invitation to kiss her.   

[Cupid Stunt]

Nobody ever wants Thomas.  If they do, it's because they want something from him because of who he is, but nobody ever wants him for him.  Amber deflowered him when he was 15, but only because she was trying to make Rick jealous.  Gabriella married him because otherwise she was going to get deported.  I think Daisy was slightly interested but not sure what happened.  Caroline didn't want him.  Hope didn't want him.  Brooke didn't want him, it was the boinkberries.  Loser.

 

Nobody wants Thomas because Thomas cannot differentiate common courtesy or friendship from romantic intent, and how could he? His parents were apart more often than they were together -- His mother returned from the dead a few times, while his father cannot spell marital fidelity much less act upon the words. Thomas was sexually abused by Amber. His one somewhat developed and mutual relationship with Gabriella was demolished and annulled by Stephanie and family; Gabby was bought off and disappeared. His Dayzee relationship ended similarly.

 

After that, any attention a chosen female made to Thomas turned into an obsession to MAKE THE WOMAN HIS in spite of of any deferment of pleasure or impediment they might have to being pressured to have the same feelz as Thomas. He doesn't listen to discouraging words. He has no personal, sexual or emotional boundaries, obviously. He is well known to act with revenge and violence, and does not take no for an answer.

 

It doesn't surprise me that Thomas ignored Caroline's repeated declarations of love for Ridge while he insinuated himself into her drunken sorrow and raped her. Thomas didn't care as long as his panty-sniffing fantasy was consummated in his symbol of Luv Fuck and Everything.

 

Unfortunately, Caroline is a devastated, weeping pile (Who wouldn't after having been raped/taken advantage of/whatever you want to call it by your lover's son?) and won't try to stop impregnation and Morning After Thomas' seed.

Edited September 3, 2015 by Cupid Stunt

[CountryGirl]

I was absolutely sickened by yesterday's episode.

 

Starting with Steffy's harassment of Wyatt (and yes, I'll call it harassment considering she is his boss) and the absolute expectation that he do her bidding because why, exactly? It was uncomfortable to watch. Steffy needs to call Ivy's bluff and just go to the police herself. But instead she wants Wyatt to do her dirty work for her when he owes her nothing, certainly not his loyalty. 

 

Moving on to Caroline and Thomas...OMG...what is with this show's fixation on rape and IMO it was rape even if Thomas thought she was "into him." I don't give a good goddamn what he thought. His perception of events isn't what matters - it's her's. How many frat boys have thought the drunk girls they cajole up into their rooms want it only to learn they didn't, even if they didn't say "no" or weren't passed out or there wasn't a struggle. How Thomas could think Caroline wanted this when she was clearly crying over his father is about as idiotic as Nick thinking a distraught, feeling like she couldn't breathe Brooke wanted to boink on a dirty foundry floor moments after seeing Ridge "die." That was rape and so is this.

 

And now she'll presumably have a rape baby cementing her to this psycho for life.

 

 

Why I continue to watch this pile of steaming dog poo, I will never know.

 

 

 

[photo fox]

To be clear, I think Thomas is skeevy as hell and I don't think Caroline did anything wrong. And his reaction when she was clearly so horrified and he wanted to talk about how "beautiful" it was the next day was truly disgusting. Like, if you really did honestly think she was up for it, when you realized that she wasn't, maybe a smidgen of "omg, what did I do?" might be in order. So that looks really bad.

I'm just not ready to brand him with a scarlet "R" at this point, which doesn't mean I won't be in the future.

[Cupid Stunt]

Hi, sweetautumn!

 

[404notfound]

Hi, sweetautumn!

 

Thanks for the welcome :)

[politichick]

I would love it if someone, like Ridge, found out about how Thomas took advantage of Caroline. He is fucking disgusting as hell.

[Cool Breeze]

 

How many frat boys have thought the drunk girls they cajole up into their rooms want it only to learn they didn't, even if they didn't say "no" or weren't passed out or there wasn't a struggle.

 

I'm confused.  If a woman doesn't physically or verbally resist, it's still a sexual assault?  Caroline didn't resist in any way and Thomas had just as much to drink as she did.  His judgment was just as impaired as hers.  (She did take pills, however, which, according to the show, would have made her even more loopy.)  And we did see Caroline kiss Thomas.  Not passionately, she didn't throw her arms around him, but she definitely kissed him back.  Am I supposed to unsee that?

 

And, by the way, they may not have even had sex.  Thomas has been down this road before.  With Brooke, he said they did it when they actually hadn't, so I anticipate the same thing happening here.  Not before Caroline confesses to Ridge, Ridge punches Thomas and I take an extended break from this crap.

 

ETA, slayer2, you crushed it.

Edited September 3, 2015 by Cool Breeze

[Waldo13]

Once again Brooke affirmed, to me, that she just has to be the turd in the punch bowel. Do what I say not what I do is Brooke's montra.

B&B just loves revisionist history. First with the Ivy video and now with Thomas trying to convince Caroline that the sex was mutual. Thomas never asked Caroline if it was ok to show his affection as the flashback recounted. Caroline didn't remember anything so with Thomas still try to convince her that it was mutual?

As far as I'm concerned, Thomas forced himself on Caroline and took advantage of the situation. IMO that is undeniably rape. There are a lot of men who think that a woman that is incapacitated to the point of incoherence and she doesn't or can't say no is fair game. Unfortunately, charges are no brought because it he said she said. It the ones who video the rape who get prosecuted even when it shows the woman was too incapacitated to say no.

In a way I have to agree with Liam (did I actually say that) because it's making Ivy into someone she's not. I think that Wyatt realizes this also. If I was Ivy, I would tell everyone that the video and all the copies were deleted but still have a copy in a safe place just in case. The press release is out, so it would look very funny if Ivy was suddenly fired. I also find getting Ivy out of the country very disconcerting. After all it's California Freedon not Monti Carlo Freedom.

As an aside, B&B spent money on that stupid montage of Rick and Maya in Copenhagen, why can't they spend money on updating the opening credits?

Edited September 3, 2015 by Waldo13

[404notfound]

Caroline's drunk and on medication, even in this state, she said loud and clear that Thomas is a great friend and she didn't make any move on him. Of course, Thomas didn't listen and made a move on her (He may not be sober but he's still more conscious than Caroline) When a girl saying that to a guy, shouldn't he respect her and back off? 

 

As you can see, Caroline's vision got blurry and blurry to the point she could barely see Thomas anymore. Then Thomas proceeded to kiss her. Caroline barely moved her lips and responded. She already passed out by then.  

 

As for not fighting back, How could you expect Caroline or other woman to fight back when she was in no condition to do so?

 

"His judgment was just as impaired as hers." Again, the blaming victim part of game started lol.

 

Just because it is not necessary a rape didn't make it better. In fact, take advantage of a woman in such a weakened state and out of consciousness is even worse than rape.  Because she was powerless, helpless and in no way to defend herself. 

 

Oh I forgot to mention I am aware of what Ridge did to Brooke even though I didn't watch B&B until last year.  The only thing that make me feel slightly better was TK's didn't play Ridge at the time.  If his Ridge took advantage of Caroline or any other woman like Thomas on Yesterday, my reaction would still be the same.           

Edited September 3, 2015 by sweetautumn

[tessaray]

I'm confused.  If a woman doesn't physically or verbally resist, it's still a sexual assault?  Caroline didn't resist in any way and Thomas had just as much to drink as she did.  His judgment was just as impaired as hers.  (She did take pills, however, which, according to the show, would have made her even more loopy.)  And we did see Caroline kiss Thomas.  Not passionately, she didn't throw her arms around him, but she definitely kissed him back.  Am I supposed to unsee that?

 

-- content deleted -- because having sex with someone who can't legally consent is rape. 

 

And even if it wasn't, a normal person doesn't have sex with someone who is crying over someone else, who is so out of it they can barely move and who has shut them down recently when they tried to make advances.  That's just revolting.    

 

ETA:  I was in and out of the kitchen when I was watching, so I didn't see Caroline return the kiss. But that doesn't change my opinion on Thomas' creepy behavior.

 

ETA:  And one more thing... I would have much preferred that Caroline had a couple of glasses of wine and when Thomas put the moves on her, have her say "Why the hell not?" - it would have still been soapy when Ridge fessed up on why he dumped her.   And we wouldn't have this nasty blame the victim discussion.

Edited September 3, 2015 by tessaray

[Cupid Stunt]

Try on California's Penal Code ...

 

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/PEN/3/1/9/1/s261

[CountryGirl]

I'm confused.  If a woman doesn't physically or verbally resist, it's still a sexual assault?  Caroline didn't resist in any way and Thomas had just as much to drink as she did.  His judgment was just as impaired as hers.  (She did take pills, however, which, according to the show, would have made her even more loopy.)  And we did see Caroline kiss Thomas.  Not passionately, she didn't throw her arms around him, but she definitely kissed him back.  Am I supposed to unsee that?

 

And, by the way, they may not have even had sex.  Thomas has been down this road before.  With Brooke, he said they did it when they actually hadn't, so I anticipate the same thing happening here.  Not before Caroline confesses to Ridge, Ridge punches Thomas and I take an extended break from this crap.

 

ETA, slayer2, you crushed it.

So a woman has to resist in some way in order for it to be rape? 

 

Seriously?

 

So, women who are held at gun or knife point should scratch and kick and/or call out "no" in order for it to be rape?

 

Or women for whom their culture dictates subservience to men in all things - apparently, they cannot be raped either.

 

Or women, like my BFF, who, was invited to a co-worker's home and, was led to believe co-worker's wife (another co-worker) would be home as well before accepting, was confronted with the ugly truth when said co-worker attempted to rape her. She froze in terror, unable to speak or scream. Thankfully, co-worker's wife did arrive home, preventing what would have happened - oh what would have happened? That's right. Rape.

 

Or even following the resistance "logic," women, like Caroline, whose physical incapacity render them incapable of resistance? Well, too bad, so sad, she drowned her sorrows in a bottle of pills and booze and so, well, she got what she deserved? And what the hell does Caroline's past have to do with what happened? That is victim-blaming and slut-shaming at its finest.

 

 

And don't get me started on the barely-returned kiss equaling consent to everything else. So, every guy I've kissed should have considered that fait accompli to sleeping with them? No, because unlike Thomas, they understood that a kiss is sometimes just a kiss. 

 

Right before or certainly right after said "kiss," we saw Caroline lose consciousness. So how in God's name did Thomas think that equaled consent? But then again this is the same man who fantasized about locking the door to a still convalescing Caroline's apartment so he could put the moves on her. 

 

I cannot stress enough that Thomas being drunk and thinking she consented is besides the point as his voluntary intoxication is not a valid defense for rape or an assault with the attempt to commit rape.

 

I think I need to step away from this thread for a while because honestly, I'm pretty fucking disgusted right now.

Edited September 3, 2015 by CountryGirl

[Oly]

I can't comment on the rape aspect because I was so disgusted and had already read comments on here so I turned the channel to CNN--and I also am sure my opinion is affected by my all around loathing of Thomas and his recent and constant slithering around and carping about his ancient old dad--have not seen today's episode yet but I doubt it will change my mind about the repugnant son who just had to do this one way or another and took the first opportunity and will find a way to justify or spin the circumstances. I also agree that Caroline's past (which I was not around to see) is not remotely part of this, she is a victim any way you look at it IMO ---sigh.

Edited September 3, 2015 by Oly

[politichick]

Thomas is a predator, plain and simple. She looked passed out or nearly there to me when he planted his disgusting lips on her. Also, he clearly wasn't that drunk since he still got it up. He also undressed her. He's the worst. Why does everyone have to be in some sort of triangle all of the time? He's been preying on poor Caroline from the moment he arrived and it's gross. How can we express our rage to the idiots in charge?

[sugarbaker design]

I try to keep in mind that what we're talking about is a fictional narrative, an awfully written, horribly produced, atrociously acted fictional narrative.  I'm a peace loving, non-violent person but when it comes to Steffi Forrester, I'm a murderous thug.  I would not only condone a B&B character to kill her, I would encourage it.  I would never do this in real life.  

 

So I take any posts about what happened with Caroline and Thomas with a grain of salt. I take the topic of rape very seriously, just not when it is presented on the B&B.

Edited September 3, 2015 by sugarbaker design

[404notfound]

LoL I take the topic of rape very seriously regardless of real world and fictional television series. Rape, violence or murder is big No No for me. Someone would say what about cheating? My answer would be I don't condone cheating. I still believe Ridge and Caroline should be honest about their feelings for each other and told Rick/Katie sooner.  

 

What sadden more is there is no real friendship on B&B.  Caroline for example, needs a big brother/sister figure or confident in her life. Unfortunately, Liam, Wyatt, Ivy and Carter were all busy.  The only available person is someone who try to get into her pants.  With friend like that, who need enemy?   

Edited September 3, 2015 by sweetautumn

[NinjaPenguins]

I'm with you on the disgust, CountryGirl. I could cry reading some of this stuff.

Popular culture doesn't need to feed into the real-world rape culture. That B&B chooses to is pretty damn gross. If they want to be edgy, they need to have Caroline hitting the Plan B pronto. But of course they won't. We wimmins just love us some babies, no matter how they get all up in us.

Brad Bell, you are a caveman and a pig.

[Gudzilla]

I'm a peace loving, non-violent person but when it comes to Steffi Forrester, I'm a murderous thug.  I would not only condone a B&B character to kill her, I would encourage it.  I would never do this in real life.  

I love this comment too much. :D

[Joimiaroxeu]

Wow, I loved both Ivy and Steffy's dresses today. They looked fab in those bright primary colors.

 

Dear JMW: please stop it with the hair. Just stop.

 

OMG, Brooke is such a busybody. She was brimming with glee when she told Thomas that Caroline and his father had broken up. At the very least she could make sure her gossip is current before she goes spreading it around. Ridge is already trying to get back with Caroline. (Don't do it, Caroline! The Forrester men are poison!)

 

Ditto comments upthread, none of this would've happened if Ridge had been fully open with Caroline instead of using ambiguous language that could be easily misinterpreted. I really wish she'd tell him what happened with Thomas so he would know what kind of consequences his vagueness helped to cause. Plus, maybe he'll put a beatdown on his d-bag son.

[404notfound]

I hope not. Caridge is one of the few things that I enjoy about B&B. They remind me of dynamite couples that I watched in the past like Duke/Anna, Danny/Michelle and Roman/Diana. Sometimes I even wonder if Caridge story could even be better under talented soap writers of the 80 and 90s...  My wish for them is to get through tough times, grow closer, get married, have children and then move off to New York or Milan.      

Edited September 3, 2015 by sweetautumn

[catalogrrr]

Prof. Catalogrrr is having to listening to this dreck and he pipes up, "haven't the writers heard that vasectomies can be reversed?" I replied, "Sure, but he Ridge got his vasectomy in France." He says, "Well, if it's a French vasectomy, then never mind."

Hahaha

[Sayla Vee]

Caridge is one of the few things that I enjoy about B&B.  My wish for them is to get through tough times, grow closer, get married, have children and then move off to New York or Milan.      

 

I could co-sign every word of this, but only if Caroline tells Ridge exactly what happened.  And Ridge is just as honest with Caroline.  All of this occurred because he wasn't honest with her in the first place, and if she doesn't tell him about Thomas, it will come back to bite her in the buttocks.  I think so, anyway.  Ridge needs to take responsibility for his stupid actions with regard to Caroline.  He needs to know how much he hurt her, and what it led to.  Ridge, Thomas and Caroline also need to work this out in whatever way it takes.  If Ridge and Caroline can't be honest with each other, then they're just like every other soap couple and might as well break up sooner rather than later.  I hate dragged-out story lines, triangles, quads.  Come up with some new plots.

[RedRockRosie]

LG continues to bring it.

 

Wondering if there might be maybe 5 minutes of original ( ie: non-repetitive) dialogue on this 18+ minutes of show.

 

How can Steph even hold her head up with all that hair??

 

 

 

(eta: accidently hit post before I was ready cause my cat just barfed up 3 giant hairballs! Impressive.)

Edited September 3, 2015 by RedRockRosie

[apbr]

Can Steffy and Liam get any more self-centered?  Of course the only reason Ivy and Wyatt are doing this is because they were both rejected by Steffy and Liam.  Having one of them reject you would put anyone over the edge.  Give me a break!

Edited September 4, 2015 by apbr

[grisgris]

How can Steph even hold her head up with all that hair??

 

(eta: accidently hit post before I was ready cause my cat just barfed up 3 giant hairballs! Impressive.)

 

Now that's an original idea -- have Steffy die from hairball ingestion.

[Bill C.]

And no doubt one of those hairballs and some dye will find its way to Steffy's head.

 

As for today's episode: if Stephanie was still around, or maybe Taylor, they'd have been the one busybodying it with Thomas about Ridge's breakup with Caroline.  So it falls to Brooke, goofy as it was.  (OTOH, KKL's hair versus JMW's hair.  Less is more, Stef.  On the other other hand, look at Taylor for the last few years.)  I'm not happy I apparently called the whole Caroline shebang thus far, though now there has to be that one last thing for it to truly fall into pattern...and we've got a couple of weeks before that would/could happen.

 

The whole mess with the Quad of Doom and TEH VIDEO?  Tuned it all out, except for Liam's bit to Ivy about how her obsession with "defending Aly's name" is changing her.  Okay, and Ivy's blue dress.

[404notfound]

Simplicity Isn't Simple. Medium length hair with light makeup would work great on Steffy.  

 

Not sure about shebang, I thought the black top and tight blue jeans looks good on Caroline, especially when she pounced on Ridge.  Did LG wear them for the occasion? It is still hard to believe the jumping on part is 100% improvised.  It is not a move many actors would feel comfortable with. she must gets a little too intimate with TK. 

 

The Ivy/Steffy part is getting tedious already. How many times do they have to repeat the same dialogue?

Edited September 4, 2015 by sweetautumn