B&B: What's Up Today at Forrester Creations? - Daily Chat

[KerleyQ]

Some have speculated that no sex actually occurred and creepy Thomas undressed Caroline and pretended the next day that they'd done the deed (in an attempt to close the door on her relationship with his dad). But it seems highly unlikely to me that Caroline would believe him telling her they'd had sex if she couldn't, um, feel/gauge the effects herself, unless she simply went on the basis that they were naked in bed together. (Admittedly, it's quite a strong basis but two drunk people could conceivably undress and pass out in bed without actually doing anything sexual.)

 

 

In the real world, yes.  But soaps don't usually remotely pay lip service to those aspects of sex.  It's not messy in soap land, you don't wake up in the morning feeling any of the after effects (unless, of course, it was your first time with your one twu wuv, then you wake up all sunshine and roses).  There have been a lot of stories about soap characters who are led to believe they had sex with someone when they really didn't.  And they always ignore the reality of those telltale signs that you either did or didn't in order to push the story along.  Just like when a character is being held locked up (in a panic room, cage, basement, whatever), you don't see that their clothes and the floor around them are covered in urine and crap from them being shackled to one place for days or weeks.  That kind of stuff just doesn't exist in soap land.  

[tessaray]

 

* That is, assuming it's not already ruined because Thomas seems to have been convicted in the court of public opinion before the full facts are established. Frankly, after reading the posts on here, I'm hard-pressed to see how the show could acquit him in the eyes of those who've already found him guilty. Would it even suffice to play flashbacks of the sexual encounter with Caroline clearly reciprocating in what Thomas termed "beautiful love-making"? He really is a monster if that's what he calls raping an unconscious, unreceptive woman!

 

What I saw was a woman almost completely passed out.  Unless I see a flashback with Caroline using his name (because she was so out of it, she could be thinking it was Ridge even if her body was responding)  pretty much my answer is NO. The most charitable view of Thomas IMO is that he was drunk enough to fool himself that her not saying no was a yes.  And I think that is common enough today, with even women trying to give the guy a pass on the rape aspect.

 

But even when I tried to do that myself, it felt wrong. Unless Caroline said flat out that she wanted him (and I kind of wish they would have gone that way) every other indication on screen was that she didn't.  And being as out of it as Caroline was (and as we clearly saw) the pills were irrelevant re: Thomas' culpability.  He can't use what he saw her drinking as a gauge.  It doesn't matter.  She was in the processing of passing out. 

 

Even before Thomas had more than a couple of glasses of wine, he was slowly moving in on her.  She trusted him.  If I had had a teen watching the show with me, I would have pointed out that her trust (and naivete) that they were friends, enabled him to use that to get in her personal space. First when he hugged her - and that wasn't a friendly shoulder that I saw her crying on, it was him realizing that he just might get what he wanted from her - and then later as he slowly went from spot to spot on the bed.  If she had been aware enough to tell him to back off, he probably would have just treated it as a misunderstanding.  It was that bit by bit getting physical with her that told me he knew what he was doing.  (And he's been doing it ever since they started working together but she was sober then.) 

 

If it helps with the "but she didn't say no", were the little Duggar girls not molested just because they were asleep?  Sexual assault is about the perpetrator doing what they want to another person without full consent.       

[Bill C.]

Which is indeed the big stumbling block, tessaray: there's not really any way Thomas comes out of this looking good at all unless they did indeed give us a flashback where Caroline actually, consciously (if drunkenly), acknowledged that she's sleeping with him.  And with Wednesday's episode, that would be an epic kneejerk reversal and the worst thing they could possibly do...unfortunately, this butts up against my previous comment that while the show's tried to show Thomas's realization that he fucked up it or he is somehow flubbing the execution.  I'm hoping TPTB, for good or ill, just stick with the course they plotted; trying to correct it in any way probably would make things worse.

[Aymery]

What I saw was a woman almost completely passed out.  Unless I see a flashback with Caroline using his name (because she was so out of it, she could be thinking it was Ridge even if her body was responding)  pretty much my answer is NO. The most charitable view of Thomas IMO is that he was drunk enough to fool himself that her not saying no was a yes.  And I think that is common enough today, with even women trying to give the guy a pass on the rape aspect.

 

But even when I tried to do that myself, it felt wrong. Unless Caroline said flat out that she wanted him (and I kind of wish they would have gone that way) every other indication on screen was that she didn't.  And being as out of it as Caroline was (and as we clearly saw) the pills were irrelevant re: Thomas' culpability.  He can't use what he saw her drinking as a gauge.  It doesn't matter.  She was in the processing of passing out. 

 

Even before Thomas had more than a couple of glasses of wine, he was slowly moving in on her.  She trusted him.  If I had had a teen watching the show with me, I would have pointed out that her trust (and naivete) that they were friends, enabled him to use that to get in her personal space. First when he hugged her - and that wasn't a friendly shoulder that I saw her crying on, it was him realizing that he just might get what he wanted from her - and then later as he slowly went from spot to spot on the bed.  If she had been aware enough to tell him to back off, he probably would have just treated it as a misunderstanding.  It was that bit by bit getting physical with her that told me he knew what he was doing.  (And he's been doing it ever since they started working together but she was sober then.) 

 

If it helps with the "but she didn't say no", were the little Duggar girls not molested just because they were asleep?  Sexual assault is about the perpetrator doing what they want to another person without full consent.       

Let me clarify: my argument is not that "she didn't say no". If no indication of consent is given, it is the same as non-consent. If Thomas forced himself on her while she was unconscious, there is no question that it's rape.

 

The thing is, we weren't shown what actually happened. (And I suspect that is intentional on the show's part.) Yes, we saw Caroline seeming like she was almost out of it. But was that really the limit of her consciousness? After that she was passed out and didn't wake again until the next morning? Thomas was the one to undress her and force himself on her? Or did she perhaps revive (unlikely though it seems) and kiss him back, express desire for him/sex, and remain conscious and actively participate in the alleged love-making, but simply forget the next morning due to the drugs in her system - which Thomas wasn't aware of?

 

Thomas seems to believe, fervently, that they "made love" and it was "beautiful" - those are not terms you'd use to describe raping an unconscious woman unless you are a sociopath. It's entirely possible that he is a sexual predator trying to cover up what actually happened. Right now it does look like there's a big chance of that. And I will completely accept that if it comes to pass and be calling for Thomas to face consequences. But as of now it's not been established that Thomas is a liar. It could have genuinely been two drunk people being attracted to each other and having sex.

 

I guess we'll only know for sure if Caroline's memory comes back to her - assuming there is a memory. Obviously there wouldn't if she had blacked out. I'm reading the spoilers for next week and it's ... strange, to say the least.

Caroline opens up to Thomas. Um, what? She believes him to be her rapist. Why would she open up to him?

I'm assuming something happens in between for things to reach that point - i.e. Caroline remembers what happened that night.

[tessaray]

Yeah, this show and its weird gaps.  I suppose if the point is to get people talking, they succeeded. But Thomas' behavior these last few weeks has been so creepy, I can't believe they can walk him back from this.  Because even if Caroline magically revived and consented, he still used a break-up of just hours to get a woman who was in pain and an emotional wreck in bed.  Still gross no matter how you spin it.

 

Not to mention Aly and the rock/no rock on the video. I'm not even sure what that's about.  It's so stupid.  

[Bill C.]

For B&B, however, Caroline ending up in bed with another man several hours after a breakup is...I'll be charitable and say "not unexpected."  (Circumstances aside, of course.)

Edited September 5, 2015 by Bill C.

[RuntheTable]

You touched on an important aspect of this tessaray, Thomas's behavior since his return from Paris. For viewers, this is really all we have to work with since we were not shown the actual events after that initial kiss. The first interaction Thomas had with Caroline and his father was fraught with unpleasant comments and innuendo about Ridge's age. He has been consistently negative in his remarks about Ridge to Caroline, always stressing how Ridge is selfish, and can't stay true to one woman. Every time they are alone together, whether working or not, Thomas is always looking at Caroline with longing, and is trying to lounge into her space. Then there was that disturbing fantasy he had when he locked the apartment door and blocked Caroline's injured body up against the couch. Add in his lack of concern over Caroline's reaction when she discovered they had been intimate, and his history of lying about sexual exploits; it paints Thomas in a less than favorable light. I also consider Caroline's behavior up until that night. She has been consistently hands off with Thomas, and I haven't seen anything to indicate her desire to revisit their earlier relationship. Additionally, Caroline has repeatedly told Thomas of her love for his father. The one knock I have is allowing herself to become Thomas's confidante and he hers. 

 

Also, for me at least, is the fact that Thomas knew Caroline was in a lot of emotional pain. How did he think having sex would help her? I mean, he had sat there listening to her pour her heart out over Ridge's actions, and how hurt she was, and he somehow translated that into her wanting to have sex? I don't know, for me that just does not compute. She allowed him to come to her room as someone she thought was a friend, and I truly feel Thomas, at the very least, is guilty of violating that trust. 

Edited September 5, 2015 by RuntheTable

[Cupid Stunt]

For B&B, however, Caroline ending up in bed with another man several hours after a breakup is...I'll be charitable and say "not unexpected."  (Circumstances aside, of course.)

 

 

[Oly]

****deleting last night's ranty post because it was just more of the same about Thomas and my new disgust for him which has pretty much eclipsed my hatred for Steffy and Rick---I sound like a broken record---trying to reform....maybe. Taking my rants over to Y&R for a little Victor hatred, I have been neglecting him.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Oly

[Joimiaroxeu]

Because even if Caroline magically revived and consented, he still used a break-up of just hours to get a woman who was in pain and an emotional wreck in bed.

Yep.

 

Soaps have this twisted thing they call "grief sex". Two people who, for example, have just watched their beloveds blow up in an airplane decide that's the moment they need to have sex with each other. Sex helps them forget the pain or some crap. However, I don't think that's what happened here, or at least that's not what the audience has been shown so far.

 

Sexual assault is about the perpetrator doing what they want to another person without full consent.

Full stop. And that needs be consent from a person who's legally of age to give it.

 

I read an interesting comment elsewhere about what might have made for better soap than this rapey crap with Thomas. Caroline and Rick  both have partners with whom they can't (or probably can't) have biological children. For whatever reason, Maya and Ridge are both out of town. Rick and Caroline have drinks for old time's sake and eventually the conversation leads to the having children issue. While commiserating their fates, they get drunk and end up sleeping together. In the meantime, Ridge finds out the vasectomy can't be reversed. Then Caroline learns she's pregnant and unless a miracle's afoot, it's probably Rick's baby. Lots of dramaz ensue between the two couples as Rick and Caroline realize they do want the child but of course Maya and Ridge feel completely betrayed. Meanwhile, Thomas is at Forever 21 shopping for blouses.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Joimiaroxeu

[godfreydaniels]

This whole Ivy turned bad girl blackmailing stuff is lame. They already had the baddest of bad in Quinn, and now they've seemingly turned her normal?? Why the switch? Don't see how it drives the story line.

[DollEyes]

  Thomas Forrester, you smug, selfish, stupid, borderline sociopathic asshole. To paraphrase Little Shop Of Horrors, "I knew you sat at your pathetic little desk and dreamed about [Caroline], but I never knew the lengths to which you'd go-the depths to which you'd sink!" You've done some messed-up shit before, but what you did to Caroline wasn't just an all-time low, it was subterranean. IMO, there's one word that best describes what you did to Caroline: rape. R.A.P.E. You took the worst kind of advantage of a woman who at the time was going through one of the worst times in her life. So what if Caroline was drunk/stoned? She was still in a bad place, with or without the substance abuse. As for your not knowing about the pills, like the saying goes, "Ignorance is no excuse." Caroline needed a friend, not a fuck buddy. A true friend would have tried to get Caroline sober and stayed sober himself. A true friend would have put Caroline's needs above their own and a true friend sure as Hell wouldn't have violated Caroline's body, her feelings nor her trust like you did.

 

  At that point, calling Caroline a "hot mess" was an understatement. She was already utterly and completely devastated and what you did to her only made things even worse. When you got to Caroline's hotel room, she was already on a bender and by the time you kissed her, she was almost unconscious. Caroline wasn't in the right frame of mind for anything you did to her.  What's more, I don't believe for a second that your raping Caroline is some kind of "karmic justice" for her past sins. Caroline's no saint by a long shot, but she didn't deserve to be raped for it. Caroline's past mistakes became irrelevant to me the morning after, when she woke up with you without remembering what happened nor why. Ever since you slithered back to town, Caroline has not only never given you any indication that she wanted you back, you knew from the start that she & Ridge were together now, not that you cared.  Rape is not "karma"; it's rape. If anyone's responsible for what happened to Caroline, it's you and your dear Old Dad Ridge. If Ridge hadn't unceremoniously dumped Caroline without telling her why, breaking her heart in the process, she probably wouldn't have been in that room in the first place. If it wasn't for you being Ridge's son & the whole "he said, she said" thing, Caroline might have put your sorry, rapist ass on lockdown by now. Worst of all, this is going to lead to the inevitable "WTD?" storyline, in which if/when the truth comes out, Ridge will not only hate you, which he should, he'll blame Caroline, which he shouldn't.  As far as I'm concerned, two people were to blame for what happened that night, but Caroline wasn't one of them.

Edited September 9, 2015 by DollEyes

[CountryGirl]

DollEyes

 

[CountryGirl]

You touched on an important aspect of this tessaray, Thomas's behavior since his return from Paris. For viewers, this is really all we have to work with since we were not shown the actual events after that initial kiss. The first interaction Thomas had with Caroline and his father was fraught with unpleasant comments and innuendo about Ridge's age. He has been consistently negative in his remarks about Ridge to Caroline, always stressing how Ridge is selfish, and can't stay true to one woman. Every time they are alone together, whether working or not, Thomas is always looking at Caroline with longing, and is trying to lounge into her space. Then there was that disturbing fantasy he had when he locked the apartment door and blocked Caroline's injured body up against the couch. Add in his lack of concern over Caroline's reaction when she discovered they had been intimate, and his history of lying about sexual exploits; it paints Thomas in a less than favorable light. I also consider Caroline's behavior up until that night. She has been consistently hands off with Thomas, and I haven't seen anything to indicate her desire to revisit their earlier relationship. Additionally, Caroline has repeatedly told Thomas of her love for his father. The one knock I have is allowing herself to become Thomas's confidante and he hers. 

 

Also, for me at least, is the fact that Thomas knew Caroline was in a lot of emotional pain. How did he think having sex would help her? I mean, he had sat there listening to her pour her heart out over Ridge's actions, and how hurt she was, and he somehow translated that into her wanting to have sex? I don't know, for me that just does not compute. She allowed him to come to her room as someone she thought was a friend, and I truly feel Thomas, at the very least, is guilty of violating that trust. 

This exactly. So we didn't see what happened after the "kiss," but everything we have seen since Thomas has returned leads me to believe that he did, in fact, rape Caroline. Since the moment he returned, he has been one-track mind where Caroline has concerned and doing everything in his power to keep her in his orbit.

 

Running down his own father at every opportunity. Being her confidante and shoulder to cry on. His constant fixation on her, mentally undressing her and taking her to bed with his eyes despite the fact that a blind man in a snowstorm could sense her love for Ridge and that she sees Thomas as a friend, the brother she never had perhaps.

 

Most of all (and I've touched on this before) those fantasy scenes of him locking the door so that he could trap a still recovering Caroline in his embrace. Who fantasizes like that? The fact that now, when he should be horrified that, if in fact, he truly believed it was consensual (and who knows. maybe in his warped brain, it was), and he truly cared about Caroline as the friend she believes him to be should, he is recalling those events with not pain, anguish, worry, concern, but rather a savoring of it, almost as if the very thought of what went down is turning him on again.

 

Nothing about his actions show the slightest bit of concern for Caroline - only smug satisfaction that he got the girl after all and he also got to stick it to dear old Dad.

 

Of course, all of this will be swept under the rug because Caroline, as most victims do, will blame herself. Ridge might blame Thomas more but I guarantee he will pass some blame to Caroline. The court of public opinion (Brooke, Rick, et al) will no doubt label her once a cheater, always a cheater (although technically, she was broken up from Ridge) but they'll use her past to victim blame, slut shame, and point fingers that well, if she'll cheat with you, she'll cheat on you.

[Gam2]

This story line has done it for me. I will never watch this program again. They've finally hit bottom. Who writes this crap in this day and age?

[hypnotoad]

 

Most of all (and I've touched on this before) those fantasy scenes of him locking the door so that he could trap a still recovering Caroline in his embrace. Who fantasizes like that?

 

Yeah the entire storyline is just gross.

 

I really don't understand soap writers obsession with rape or rapey type stories. If Caroline was upset and she called Thomas to commiserate and one thing led to another. I could accept that. If she said something like 'help me not feel anymore.' And then later she could say 'we were on a break!'

 

In our scenario, she was drunk and on pills and out of it or close enough to it (however each person saw it) and Thomas slept with her anyway - it's just icky. His fantasies have been gross and he is disgusting too. I'm not even sure how he can be a viable character from here. Seriously.

 

I'm a fan of Ridge/Caroline. I know soap couples have to go through a lot of nonsense but this might be a bridge too far for me. I don't really know if I can keep this show on my DVR the way things are going. I'll keep it there for now but I'm feeling very negative about things after this week.

 

Though I will say LG and TK are killing it.

 

The dude playing Thomas not so much. Personally, I think he has chemistry with Brooke, though I don't think I'd want her with this creeper.

[minirth]

I am literally unable to comment on Brooke without violating the terms of use other than to say she makes me physically ill, as does Thomas.  About him, I will say that his expressions when recalling the incident make him look, at best, creepy as fuck.

 

Ridge dumping Caroline so cruelly was totally, absolutely in character; not for the first time since TK came aboard, but I think it is one of his most significantly in-character moments.  Making decisions for his women and being a douchbag is his thing.

I used to really like Steffi and JMW, but I simply cannot be having with that face and that ridiculous hair and strident voice.  

 

Ivy may have lost her mind, but she's more beautiful than ever.  There is simply no comparison between her classic beauty and the surgical nightmare that JMW has become.

LG knocked it out of the park in every scene.  She conveys hurt and heartbreak so well -- I always find myself absolutely and completely believing every moment of her pain.  Caroline's horror and revulsion with Thomas was top-notch.

[Kitty Redstone]

B&B was on in the background so I wasn't really paying attention.  Was there something other than Wyatt getting a plot point memo that caused Ivy to do a complete turnaround?  Strange, but whatever.  Hopefully it means Ivy isn't going to be ruined.

 

I've never liked Steffy or JWM's take on the character, but no lie, I can't even look at her face.  The proportions are so off.

[404notfound]

Even if Ridge found out, he will blame himself, not Caroline... I had mixed feelings about Ridge's proposal today.  Part of me feel relieved because Ridge realized he was being an ass to her.  Another part of me scream at him: why don't you do it earlier?  Most of all,  I am so happy to see this intimate couple back.

 

Steffy/Ivy interaction is nice. I am glad they patch thing up somewhat, though Steffy's defending Liam/her relationship is a bit over the top.

Edited September 7, 2015 by sweetautumn

[tessaray]

So they tortured us with that stupid video for weeks and now what? All bygones?  Or is Ivy going to be hacked and the video will come to light and used by someone outside the family?  

 

So Caroline will end up pregnant, thinking (or hoping) Ridge is the daddy, with Brooke gloating in the background, knowing that it couldn't be?  Not liking this at all.  

[Pickles]

Is Ridge going to tell Caroline about the vasectomy?

[ByTor]

Is Ridge going to tell Caroline about the vasectomy?

If they want to go for maximum drama, what they should do is have Ridge tell Caroline about the vasectomy with Caroline finding out she is pregnant afterward.  Then there would be the dilemma of should she terminate the pregnancy/but she really wants to be a mom.  I know the show won't go there, though.

Edited September 7, 2015 by ByTor

[slayer2]

Yeah, this show and its weird gaps. I suppose if the point is to get people talking, they succeeded. But Thomas' behavior these last few weeks has been so creepy, I can't believe they can walk him back from this. Because even if Caroline magically revived and consented, he still used a break-up of just hours to get a woman who was in pain and an emotional wreck in bed. Still gross no matter how you spin it.

Not to mention Aly and the rock/no rock on the video. I'm not even sure what that's about. It's so stupid.

However, it is important to note that Caroline did the very same thing though to Rick with booze after a fight with Maya and she was much more shall we say...aggressive. It's no less inconsiderate coming from a woman than a man.

I think you're right in the assumption that it gets people talking and that perhaps that was the intent. Bell is nothing if not someone to dive head first into the murky waters without first checking for alligators.

So they tortured us with that stupid video for weeks and now what? All bygones? Or is Ivy going to be hacked and the video will come to light and used by someone outside the family?

So Caroline will end up pregnant, thinking (or hoping) Ridge is the daddy, with Brooke gloating in the background, knowing that it couldn't be? Not liking this at all.

Answering the first question with a memory... Livy Wedding.

Edited September 7, 2015 by slayer2

[Bill C.]

It can go either way: if Ivy indeed deleted it from the cloud, while there may be a copy floating around in the ether she may not be aware of it.  But then we get to her phone...

 

I'm inclined to give the Ally-specific half of today's episode a pass because, for something like the second or third time that I know of, it was actually about Ally.  (Still not sure why Wyatt had to be the voice of reason, but okay fine.)  Ivy and Steffy both expressing some actual remorse over the whole thing, even if a trifle too late for cases, was nice to see.  It even made JMW's increasingly poofy hair tolerable.  The thing is that the other half was Ridge and Caroline, which...while not being bad in a vacuum of its own merits...was almost literally a giant Acme anvil being raised over their heads.  As tessaray said:

 

So Caroline will end up pregnant, thinking (or hoping) Ridge is the daddy, with Brooke gloating in the background, knowing that it couldn't be?

 

Yuuup.  I was waiting for them to get their freak on (I honestly don't know when the last time they had sex was) in order to fully engage WTD protocol, but it never happened and it was distracting as hell.  Obviously there was no way Caroline was going to come clean about what happened with Thomas, and there was no way Ridge was going to out his vasectomy (which in his case, right now, at least satisfies a certain narrow internal logic), so this has got to happen PDQ.

[Cool Breeze]

I think the baby will, ultimately, be Ridge's.  

 

Before fatherhood is determined, though, (i) Caroline will admit what happened with Thomas; (ii) Ridge, having had a vasectomy, will "know" the child is not his; (iii) Eric will smugly gloat, under the guise of sympathizing and "having been there", that it's tough being cuckolded by your own son; (iv) Ridge and Thomas' relationship will fracture; and (iv) Someone, maybe Quinn, or even Brooke, will switch the results.

 

But, ultimately, despite his vasectomy, this will be a miracle baby for Ridge and Caroline.

 

All not unlike Eric/Brooke/Ridge and Bridget's paternity.

[bubble sparkly]

There's not really any drama if the baby is Ridge's though. Besides, I think they need to start populating the younger generation of Forrestors by having Rick, Thomas and Steffy etc procreate. For that reason, I would guess Thonas will be the father (if the pregnancy is a tick).

I agree with the scenario posted upthread that it would have been much better if the had spent a few months on Rick/Maya and Ridge/Caroline baby drama, then had Rick/Caroline commiserate / hook up resulting in her getting pregnant.

[Bill C.]

The drama is more in the pregnancy itself than the actual child, IMO.  That said--unless I miss my guess the last actual child born on this show was Will, and we've had three or four tock pregnancies since then; if Caroline indeed turns up pregnant, she's having that kid.

 

So the big question is: do/will they indeed tie Caroline forever to Ridge, a la Brooke to Eric?

[Cupid Stunt]

I think the baby will, ultimately, be Ridge's.  

 

Before fatherhood is determined, though, (i) Caroline will admit what happened with Thomas; (ii) Ridge, having had a vasectomy, will "know" the child is not his; (iii) Eric will smugly gloat, under the guise of sympathizing and "having been there", that it's tough being cuckolded by your own son; (iv) Ridge and Thomas' relationship will fracture; and (iv) Someone, maybe Quinn, or even Brooke, will switch the results.

 

But, ultimately, despite his vasectomy, this will be a miracle baby for Ridge and Caroline.

 

All not unlike Eric/Brooke/Ridge and Bridget's paternity.

 

The more things change, the more things stay the same ... This will make for a great matinee Eric will enjoy from the martini bar.

 

Ridge's Super Sperm will break out of its Parisian prison in the Who's The Daddy? Forrester Sweepstakes.

 

Caroline will be a blithering idiot after she confesses the rape happened When they were on a break!

 

Thomas will be fitted in a three-piece suit for his runway design debut, when an enraged Ridge plants a left hook in his smug rapist kisser.

 

Mayhem will ensue ...

[tessaray]

Mayhem better ensue.

[Waldo13]

Ivy had an epiphany today and realized that her problem was that she had pangs of guilt for Ally's ultimate demise by first not paying enough attention to Ally and than sitting in the car videoing instead of rushing to Ally's side. Ivy's character has been redeemed and IMO is most likely due to social media outraged.

In the Jewish culture, Brooke is known as a yenta. A meddlesome busy body that gets up in everybody's business. Brooke is getting enjoyment out of her and Thomas dissing on Ridge and deciding what is best for Caroline.

I'm sorry if I'm going to get a little graphic here but I would imagine that Caroline would know that Thomas has planted his seed even if she didn't remember what happened. There most likely be some tell tail signs. I would imagine that Caroline would be on birth control so a morning after pill would not be in consideration. Now if Caroline, has been with Rick, discounting Ridge's snipping, and has not gotten pregnant, are we to believe that one indiscretion, with Thomas, make her pregnant. Than I would think that Thomas is shooting magic bullets as is Nick, of Y&R, getting the infertile Sage pregnant.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Thomas is shooting magic bullets as is Nick, of Y&R, getting the infertile Sage pregnant.

Nah, Nick ain't shooting nothing magical. That's Adam's baby. ;-)

 

If we're laying bets now, I don't think it'll turn out to be Thomas' kid unless they're going to break up Caroline and Ridge permanently. I don't see Ridge being willing to act as stepfather to his own grandchild. That'd be some weird Maury Show ish, IMO. I do agree with comments upthread though that the show needs to start giving the younger generation some babies. If they're grown enough to run major companies, they're grown enough to have kids. Good luck baby-proofing your cliffside house, Liam.

[catalogrrr]

And, with the click of a mouse, Steffy gets away with ... (Not MUUUURDAAAAAH) manslaughter. I don't buy that it was self-defence. She could have done anything (pushed her away, locked herself in her car) except hit Aly with a tire iron (JMHO).

[LittleIggy]

Ivy and Wyatt are idiots for trusting Bratz and her "I'm a good person" bullshit. That vindictive heifer will turn on them in a heartbeat.

Someone get Brooke a Chairman Mao pantsuit, big brooch, and a buzz cut. She has turned into Stephanie!

[grisgris]

I'm really disappointed that Ivy caved in today. Hopefully, she was bluffing and has multiple copies of the video. Loved how that smug bitch Steffy just stood there with a pissy expression on her face and without a "thank you" or anything to Ivy. One thing I noticed about Steffy is how she rarely smiles. Even at Waffles.

 

Yeah, ITA that Steffy isn't finished with those two yet.

 

So is Brooke trying to work her way back with Ridge? WTH would she care if Ridge wants to have a kid or two with Caroline? I agree that Ridge should attempt to raise RJ before siring another one, but as Caroline pointed out today "He's RIDGE FORRESTER."

 

Ridge's proposal creeped me out. It seemed too deja' vu to when he proposed to Caroline 1.0. Speaking of, why is that just swept under the rug? Has everybody just forgotten that Ridge is marrying his first wife's NIECE?

[hypnotoad]

 

Speaking of, why is that just swept under the rug? Has everybody just forgotten that Ridge is marrying his first wife's NIECE?

 

On a show where Brooke was involved with Ridge, his brother Thorne, his father Eric, his half brother Nick and doing weird flirting with Thomas. Where Ridge was involved in a short romantic thing with Bridget who he raised as his daughter for a time. Where Taylor married Ridge, slept with Thorne, Eric and Rick?

 

Ah nah no character notices or cares!

 

Normally it would bother me, but good chemistry trumps that stuff. I'm weak I know.

[tessaray]

What's funny is that on OLTL, a character got pregnant by her stepson and is still reviled for it, long after the show has been cancelled.  On B&B, all it gets is a yawn. 

[slayer2]

Mvid tidbit: For any Raya fans still lingering on this board, I just saw a vid of Rick and Maya's wedding very beautifully done. Whenever Nick gets to the bit about "It is with immense pleasure..." I always tear up. It comes highly recommended from me.

Mvid tidbit: For any Raya fans still lingering or lurking on this board, I just saw a vid of Rick and Maya's wedding very beautifully done. Whenever Nick gets to the bit about "It is with immense pleasure..." I always tear up. It comes highly recommended from me.

Edited September 8, 2015 by slayer2

[RuntheTable]

Just getting caught up, and damn, just when you are about to pull the plug, the show goes and gives us a gem like yesterday. I watched and re-watched as I plowed my way through half a box of Kleenex, lingering on every look and syllable. I am overjoyed they have reunited Caroline and Ridge; listening to the strange verbiage coming out of Ridge's mouth gave me the feels all over. It is not what he wants but what he needs? Huh? Ridge has always been driven by his wants, or maybe it was Stephanie's, even so, I am not used to him putting someone ahead of himself. And as angry as I am with Thomas right now; I was still wide eyed when Ridge told Thomas he may be a better designer than he was at that age. All the same, there are a few things I am not happy about. Ridge still hasn't told Caroline about his "procedure", and Caroline didn't tell Ridge what happened with her and Thomas. I realize either of those truths would have crushed the moment, but I don't like marriages that start with lies and lingering untruths. Having said that, I am so besotted with this pairing that I may have to relax my normal requirements in order to cheer them on..............let me run back and check my Give A Fuck Meter.................. nope, just as I thought, not one measly fuck to give, so rock on CaRidge! 

 

Oh, I found that I am really fond of Forceful Wyatt. I don't know what will happen now, but I am just so darn happy they have redeemed Ivy that I don't care. I am also happy, over the moon really, that we won't be hearing about videos and !!MURRRRDAAAH!! anymore. Or at least that is my hope. However, something tells me Lt. Baker is going to come back with more questions. Steffy better get to grilling those foot longs to keep him eating and not asking people stuff. because he was looking quite suspicious the other day. Then again, he was looking suspicious the night Brooke rescued Bill after he drank and wrecked his car, but he never came back. So who knows. What I noticed more than anything in those scenes with Steffy and Wyatt is their chemistry. I never really picked up on it before, but for some reason, their straightforward dialog about the video, it's contents and it's repercussions, had so much underlying spark and pizzazz that I was waiting for them to kiss. I have a niggling in the back of my head about these two. Maybe we haven't seen the end of Liam/Ivy after all? Although, if they do break up Wyatt and Ivy, I would much rather her go plow Carter's field than run back to that overdone waffler. 

 

Brooke as a Yenta? Oh, how I love that Waldo13! I have been staying neutral about Brooke and her motives, but I saw the return of the squinty eyed death glare yesterday, so I am sure we are in store for some Brooke bumps. Will she accidentally on purpose spill the beans to a pregnant Caroline? Or will she somehow get Thomas to do her dirty work? Maybe she won't do anything, but she clearly has a bee in her bonnet about Ridge taking Caroline back and promising to start a family with her, and I have never known Brooke to do nothing when she feels threatened. 

 

UGH, the way Thomas was looking at Caroline. She doesn't want you pal. She didn't want you the other night either, but the damage is done. Take your loamy, and somewhat deranged looks, and your creepo mouth and big hair and go somewhere that is not in Caroline's space. 

 

CREEPY!!!!

 

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQCjo1i22J-pNucnZr1t_aGqz1R5ps9D8rTT333e8GjFmA7bmzMRQ

Edited September 8, 2015 by RuntheTable

[KerleyQ]

What's funny is that on OLTL, a character got pregnant by her stepson and is still reviled for it, long after the show has been cancelled.  On B&B, all it gets is a yawn. 

 

I think it's because the circumstances are wildly different.  Kelly (on OLTL) was a straight up sonfucker.  She was fully aware of what she was doing and who she was doing it with.  (And I still think that part of her reasoning was her desperation to get pregnant).  And, to top things off, after God literally dropped a wall on their trifling asses, her husband was forced to choose whether she or his son would live.  This wasn't something Caroline chose to do.  

[DollEyes]

ITA. Kelly chose to cheat on her husband with her stepson and lie about it; Caroline didn't choose to be part of what Thomas did to her.

 

  STFU, Brooke. You have no say in what Ridge does or whom he does it with anymore.

 

  Once again, Steffy does something shitty and gets away with it. If Steffy really felt remorse for what she's done, then she wouldn't have lied to the cops in the first place. As for her claim that she'll mourn Aly's death for the rest of her life, knowing Steffy, it'll probably be for about five minutes-tops.

[tessaray]

Sorry for not being more clear but I didn't mean to compare Caroline to Kelly, especially in the current storyline.  I was comparing the way B&B doesn't even blink when it comes to sharing romantic partners with siblings and parents.  If Caroline had slept with Thomas on purpose, she still would not come in for the amount of hate the other show/character generated.     

 

ETA:  With the Rick/Ridge/Caroline mess, Rick's feeling of betrayal didn't seem to be as much about her falling for his brother, as much as having feelings for Ridge, the man who hurt his mother, messed up his childhood and was their father's favorite son.  This is a strange show in so many ways...

Edited September 8, 2015 by tessaray

[Bill C.]

Today's episode was basically the inevitable "after action report" for yesterday, and as such mostly just there.  Though I do think we finally got a halfway decent "WTF did I do?" moment out of Thomas in it, if counterbalanced by the also-inevitable "Ridge can never find out" declaration from Caroline...and it's just a matter of time before she gets pregnant.

 

OTOH, the fact that they went all in on the Quad of Doom declaring that the video was deleted and they would never speak of it again either was aimed squarely at us viewers or the usual false flag (Steffy used the term "master copy," which is why I'm leaning towards door number two).

[Waldo13]

F... Thomas and the horse he rode in on. Was he watching some other soap opera in justifying what he done to Caroline? Did we see Thomas holding Caroline in his arms until they fell asleep and she was content and at peace? I don't think so. I guess it was wishful thinking or just being delusional but it doesn't matter what he thought at all.

Did you see the look on Liam's face when Steffy told him that Wyatt was the one that got Ivy to delete the video and that it was Wyatt that allowed her to breath again. Than, Liam, in his infinite wisdom, had to call Wyatt and Ivy to make sure that the video was actually deleted after Steffy told him that she and Wyatt witnessed it. Liam, you schmuck, you had to put your two cents in so you would feel like a man and not emasculated by your brother?

Yes Brooke, a vasectomy is reversible and does have a high success rate. The procedure is less complicated if the tube is tied and not cut. As an aside, tubal ligations are also reversal. So Brooke, mind your own business and f... off.

[politichick]

Yeah, Brooke seriously needs to get a freaking life. I haven't seen the episode yet, but absolutely wanted to throw my shoe at her yesterday. Since she won't be getting up at 3 a.m. to feed CarRidge's kid, why the fuck is she worrying about it? She needs to be thinking about her own invisible kid. Poor RJ is never seen and I liked that kid!

[Joimiaroxeu]

Liam, you schmuck, you had to put your two cents in so you would feel like a man and not emasculated by your brother?

It was so silly. He's been largely ineffective throughout this mess but now he had to step up and act like he's the one who finally settled it. My eyes are still rolling.

[tricknasty]

And I have to agree with Waffles *yes hell has frozen over*, but can we never speak of this again? Pretty please? If I had to listen to that same conversation and watch that video again, my remote would be IN my tv and I can't afford a new HDTV.  Speaking of HD, it does Clown Face no favors.

[LittleIggy]

The clip they showed clearly had Thomas kissing a passed out Caroline so his explanation/justification/whatever the eff that was to her was all the more creepy, IMO. "I saw the way you were looking at me." Dude, she was intoxicated. That wasn't desire. It was trying to focus her vision!

[Oly]

yah---thomas is still a creeper and now everything is f-- ed up and vasectomies are reversable and I know that in my own family so yeah---and while Riidge  needs to explain for sure I still think Thomas is the creeper here and am not amused---and for the love of GOD why is Brooke in any part of this UGH UGH UGH---she needs to get a life and not with Ridge or Deacon---

[Anna Yolei]

Sorry for not being more clear but I didn't mean to compare Caroline to Kelly, especially in the current storyline. I was comparing the way B&B doesn't even blink when it comes to sharing romantic partners with siblings and parents. If Caroline had slept with Thomas on purpose, she still would not come in for the amount of hate the other show/character generated.

ETA: With the Rick/Ridge/Caroline mess, Rick's feeling of betrayal didn't seem to be as much about her falling for his brother, as much as having feelings for Ridge, the man who hurt his mother, messed up his childhood and was their father's favorite son. This is a strange show in so many ways...

All of this. I remember when the spoilers came out at The Other Place about a Rick/Phoebe pairing in '06 and we were shocked that TIIC would try this AGAIN after the colossal failure of Ridge and Bridget.

Fast forward to a few months ago, when people were wondering if Zende would get paired with Ivy or Steffy.

Me, I'm still glad we never got Hope/Nick, although I really have to wonder if that could possibly have been any worse than what we did get with Lope for all those years.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Anna Yolei

[bannana]

The clip they showed clearly had Thomas kissing a passed out Caroline so his explanation/justification/whatever the eff that was to her was all the more creepy, IMO. "I saw the way you were looking at me." Dude, she was intoxicated. That wasn't desire. It was trying to focus her vision!

I am seriously wondering whether nothing happened between Thomas and Caroline.  Except that I guess we are expecting her to turn up pregnant, but she could abort, if that were the case.  But she doesn't know about that whole vasectomy thing.  But, there are no scenes other than the kissing one where she is out of it and then waking up. Seems odd to me.  He is kind of demented, didn't he do the same thing to Brooke with the drugging?