Episode Discussion: TFGH

[Katy M]

35 minutes ago, blondiek237 said:

I can say I am the Pope, and if those in my life buy into my delusions, then they are as delusional as I am.  I am not the Pope and nothing will change that no matter how many people call me that.

And I agree with that.  But, I thought I was the only one that still felt that way.  I think legally, Franco can think he is whoever he is and there's nothing anybody can do about that.

[lala2]

Yes, Franco can believe he's Drew all he wants, but he's not Drew and he never will be. Kim shouldn't have fed into his delusions. She should have continued to call him Franco, and she definitely shouldn't have slept with him as "Drew."

Franco never should have been released from the hospital. He should have been placed in the psych ward. As his wife, Liz has the authority and power to authorize the procedure be done on him. At that point, "Drew" should have had no say in what happened to Franco's body. Franco never intended to remain Drew. He would have wanted to return to himself. 

If the procedure failed, then I think Franco probably should have been released. He's not a danger to himself or anyone else, and it would be unfair, IMO, to keep him locked up because an unlawful experiment was done on him, and it was successful. 

At this point, I fully support Liz committing him.  He's ruining Franco's life, and that's not right. 

Edited September 18, 2019 by lala2

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, Captanne said:

To my mind, that is professionally corrupt and really colors my opinion of the series in general.

Welcome to this fakakta show.

[sacrebleu]

Franco is in the same position as Drew was-- when he was Jake. I liken his condition to someone with amnesia. He does not 'feel' like the person he has been told that he is, he decides to behave like a different person.

Kim is totally in the wrong to have any kind of relationship with Franco-as-Drew, in the same way that Liz was wrong to continue her relationship with Jake once she believed he was Jason. 

As for having him committed-- we're in bizarro soap-twist territory. He knows he isnt Drew, but he has Drew's memories. 

side note: I couldnt help but notice that Sasha pulled the same crap on Michael that Sonny and Carly always do-- she verbally chastises herself for her own wrong-doing, so Michael can't. She fits right in with the Corinthi.  

[NutmegsDad]

17 hours ago, statsgirl said:

As I watched Cassandra flick her blonde hair, I thought "she could be the new Helena".

Calling it: Cassandra IS Helena, with the memory procedure perfected.

[Benji]

18 minutes ago, NutmegsDad said:

Calling it: Cassandra IS Helena, with the memory procedure perfected.

Yes !  I was thinking this to myself last night. Helena's body is dead, but she arranged to have her memories implanted into Cassandra so she could live on. But who would have done it ? Not Andre ? Must have been Dr. Cabot ? 

[makelemons]

2 hours ago, lala2 said:

The speed with which this story is moving also has me wondering if Franco is going to get his memories back soon. I really think he must because AFAIC, all the beats in this story have played out. What other story is there to tell? Maybe it's just me, but this story has moved very quickly. 

This is the confusing part... with as slow as everything else usually moves on this show.... why is this so fast??

But i'm not so sure its to give Bob his Serial Killer memories back as the next step.....in one of the interviews RoHo gave as part of this story he said  he was bored being a family man and wanted to work with others on the canvas.  if he gets his memories back... then he just goes back to Liz and the kids...  there might be some fall out consequences from his banging Kim.. but Liz will forgive him like she always does.... so then what??

[lala2]

6 hours ago, sacrebleu said:

Franco is in the same position as Drew was-- when he was Jake. I liken his condition to someone with amnesia. He does not 'feel' like the person he has been told that he is, he decides to behave like a different person.

I don't see Franco and Drew as being in similar positions. The difference btw them is Drew was a complete blank slate when he was Jake Doe. I completely understand why he chose to go w/Hayden. He was lied to and manipulated into thinking she was his wife and that they had a life together. He loved Elizabeth, but once his identity was "revealed," he tried to make it work w/his "wife." That was the right and honorable thing to do.  

Franco, on the other hand, is not a blank slate. He has all of Drew's memories, so it is much harder to just walk away from them simply b/c his face has changed. If you just imagine waking up in a different body but w/your same mind . . . . I think many ppl would see that they wouldn't just immediately believe what they're being told or accept that they were another person. If you remembered your family, friends, etc., you'd want to reach out to them . . . I think. It's a strange situation. 

Edited September 18, 2019 by lala2

[lala2]

8 minutes ago, makelemons said:

This is the confusing part... with as slow as everything else usually moves on this show.... why is this so fast??

But i'm not so sure its to give Bob his Serial Killer memories back as the next step.....in one of the interviews RoHo gave as part of this story he said  he was bored being a family man and wanted to work with others on the canvas.  if he gets his memories back... then he just goes back to Liz and the kids...  there might be some fall out consequences from his banging Kim.. but Liz will forgive him like she always does.... so then what??

Hmmmm . . . I read that interview, and I didn't read it as him saying he's bored w/Franco. It's just become routine for him.  This is an opportunity for him to do something new and interesting. I can understand that. I kind of feel many of the actors probably feel the same way. I remember Tyler Christopher really enjoying his "evil" stint. For me, that was the most interesting Nikolas had been in ages, but I digress. 

Regardless of what Roger wants, I'm not sure how interesting his Drew can be at this point. This story moved really fast. This Drew is not conflicted in any way, shape, or form.  He has no interest in Franco's life. He doesn't want to stay in PC. Kim and Drew have already declared their love, so what could possibly be their obstacle? Liz? I guess Liz could try to commit Franco and have the procedure done, but then what?! Frim is not a "root for" pairing, IMO.  I will admit that I am biased. I love Franco and Friz. I see chemistry btw Franco and Kim, but the story moved too fast for me. I don't want to see them together. Kim is a horrible person and an even worse friend. Franco's body is being used against his will, and that's troubling to me.

Honestly, if some major time had passed, like 6 months or so, and effort was made to return Franco's memories but failed, I'd probably be fine w/Frim but that's not what has happened. It's all happened w/in the span of a couple of weeks. 

For me, there is no "Drew" or Frim story at this point. Friz is still the "root for" pairing, and I want to see them overcome what's happened to him. They can keep Friz together and still have Franco interacting w/other characters, etc. If Kim is pregnant, that's enough angst for Friz. Heck, Franco gets his memories back. He and Liz sleep together, and boom . . . both women are pregnant at the same time. That, to me, would be more interesting than playing out this Drew stuff any longer. It was good, but the writers ruined the story AFAIC. 

[Mrs. Stanwyck]

I know why he didn't (because it would limit story potential) but one of the only things I appreciated about Franco was his stand against procreating.  I thought it made sense and if that was his position, why wouldn't he get a vasectomy?  From a character perspective, it makes no sense that he didn't do that.  Not having a child was something he felt strongly about (and it ended his relationship with Nina) and if he had the vasectomy then it is never an issue going forward.

[GHScorpiosRule]

53 minutes ago, makelemons said:

This is the confusing part... with as slow as everything else usually moves on this show.... why is this so fast??

But i'm not so sure its to give Bob his Serial Killer memories back as the next step.....in one of the interviews RoHo gave as part of this story he said  he was bored being a family man and wanted to work with others on the canvas.  if he gets his memories back... then he just goes back to Liz and the kids...  there might be some fall out consequences from his banging Kim.. but Liz will forgive him like she always does.... so then what??

1. Because it's Roger Howarth.

2. Gee...doesn't that sound familiar? A certain someone was tired of playing the nice brother and wanted a change. And the viewers have had to suffer because of this for over 20 years.

Bored, routine, complacent...blah, blah, blah.

[RedRockRosie]

3 hours ago, NutmegsDad said:

Calling it: Cassandra IS Helena, with the memory procedure perfected.

Or....or just maybe  Cassandra is still a hexenbeast.😱 (Yes, I watched Grimm.) Or maybe she's a hexenbeast version of Cassandra as Helena!🤪

Seriously I can easily believe that this show would go there, that Cassandra IS Helena, with the memory procedure perfected, but I would so miss Constance Towers' Helena.☹️

[tvgoddess]

I don't like Franco/Drew with Kim. I don't like Franco with Elizabeth. I just fucking don't like Franco, period. And he's on practically every single fucking day. All this discussion (while interesting and intelligent on an ethical/medical level) just makes me angry and bitter. So I am not watching, or I'm watching very small clips of the limited things I choose to seek out (which these days, isn't much).

I'd like a GoFundMe to send RoHo and MB on a very, very very long vacation. You can throw a few others in as well, but start with those two.

[Captanne]

I never liked the look of the Franco actor when he was on the other soap and was saddened to see he was brought over in the same boat with the rest of that cast.  (TBH, I don't like the actor Franco, either, and although I was fascinated by the serial killer story*, that smarmy stoner did nothing for me and I wish we could change that stupid name).

So the whole plot line -- other than the serial killer part -- is utterly lost on me in both iterations.

*This belongs in the UO thread but I love Jason and Sam so I was really into the whole serial killer thing.  /shh don't tell

[luna1122]

17 hours ago, lala2 said:

Kim is disgusting for what she did. She has taken advantage of a brain damaged, mentally impaired man. She is a selfish person and a horrible friend. We all know if Cameron had rec'd the transfer, she wouldn't be bedding him, but she can't control herself around her friend's husband?!?! 

Do we know that? I think Kim would fuck anybody who called himself Drew and said she was pretty. Including a minor.

I hate this stupid storyline. I used to love Kim but they've destroyed her.

[ffwbe]

I really hope Kim’s not treating patients right now but she sounded full on delusional today

[YaddaYadda]

Kim is crazy and Elizabeth's slap was terrible and telegraphed and not hard enough to slap the nuts out of nutcase.

Edited September 18, 2019 by YaddaYadda

[Bringonthedrama]

1 minute ago, luna1122 said:

I hate this stupid storyline. I used to love Kim but they've destroyed her.

GH hit a new/insane low today, with Kim telling Elizabeth she could no more get Franco back than she could get Oscar back. Aside from the lame slap, Becky Herbst really rocked her scenes today. I liked her incredulous reaction to Kim calling her delusional after insisting "Drew is in love with me."  I thought it was interesting (in a sad way) that Kim gave no thought to Julian until Elizabeth brought him up. Those last two to three scenes show that Kim is in serious need of a psych hospital stat. Good for Elizabeth for surprising Kim/shutting down her attempted call.

Cam, you are a sweet and adorable son, brother and friend. However,  Joss or maybe Grandma Laura needs to make the point to you that you, your brothers and your mother were a family before Franco came along. You do NOT need him to make the family complete, blech.

[AuxArx]

Since when can a prisoner call direct to someone on the outside?  That's what I got from today's show...

[ffwbe]

12 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

I thought it was interesting (in a sad way) that Kim gave no thought to Julian until Elizabeth brought him up.

It’s sad but pretty consistent. She didn’t consider Julian the times the kissed the real Drew or was trying to get him to make an Oscar replacement with her. A lot of people think that Julian is going to use the grief to excuse everything and stay with her since Drew’s attempted rape didn’t seem to faze him but I can’t see how their relationship isn’t forever tainted after this. She always appears to treat Julian as a complete afterthought and there’s definitely some delusion on Julian’s part regarding his place in her life. 

[Hater]

This entire show is a joke. I never liked Kim. Don’t care about Tamara but they’ve decided to make her character the heavy in every single storyline so far. Maybe this show needs to spread the wealth and let some of the pristine characters screw up. Franco is being protected all so Frank and Roger can have fun for a bit then Friz gets slapped together. I cannot with Liz and this lame ass “fighting for Franco.” Let her do something soapy with another man while Franco is with Kim.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Hater

[rur]

19 minutes ago, AuxArx said:

Since when can a prisoner call direct to someone on the outside?  That's what I got from today's show...

. . . and since when are conversations between visitors and inmates at a penitentiary NOT recorded? Elsewhere in TVland, prisoners know they have to speak in code because everyone knows they're being surveilled.

Edited September 18, 2019 by rur

[Pingaponga]

14 hours ago, statsgirl said:

It is a real thing. In children's hospitals and maybe in large general ones, there are teachers so that children who are away from school for long periods of time due to illness don't lose out on their education. 

I've only met people who do it part time though. Still, I'm not going to quibble. Anything that gets more focus on the hospital and away from the "coffee importer" works for me.

My cousin does it as a full-time job. She teaches high school students in a large regional hospital. She really enjoys it, as difficult as it sometimes is.

I think what the Franco/Drew-Kim thing boils down to is that if Kim were to get pregnant with his baby, the baby would not be a full-brother to Oscar, or a biological Quartermain. Because Franco/Drew does not have Drew's DNA.  What the baby would have as a father is someone who had Drew's memories, but not Drew's DNA.

(Which is NOT to say that half-siblings aren't real siblings, they totally are - based on your emotions and relationships. If you want to call the brother with whom you share only one parent your brother and not your half-brother, go right ahead, I'm not going to stop you, and in fact I would think it's awesome and likely a sign of a strong emotional bond, which is fantastic. If you think he's an idiot and want to refer to him as a half-brother, that's fine too. My husband's step-siblings are never going to be referred to as his step-sister/step-brother, but his father's wife's kids. The wife is never going to be his step-mother. We all get to choose how we define the people around us. Point is...families are complicated. Franco may have Drew's memories, but he doesn't have Drew's DNA.)

And in no way to I endorse Kim getting pregnant. Not at all.

Regarding Josslyn and Cam, do kids really start talking about university applications in Grade 11? I'm very confused about what grade they are in. They referred to their Junior year a while back, but today Joss referred to kids talking about university applications. In Canada (at least in my province), no one discusses applications until Grade 12.

[Linny]

Liz's slap definitely should've been ten times harder today. Kim's character is completely obliterated now. She avoided any accountability for the damage to Liz's marriage (not just the sex, but encouraging Franco to relive Drew's memories and completely cut Liz out of the equation) and she ditched Julian via letter, thus avoiding any fallout for her actions with him. So she's selfish AND a coward AND totally callous, on top of being delusional enough to believe she and "Drew" will live happily ever after (of the myriad of obstacles facing them, chief among them is Franco's marriage to Liz, which is still valid no matter what he calls himself). What do they do with this character who's burning bridges left and right without a single backwards glance? None of this feels good.

The only thing I have to root for here is for Franco to come back (words I never thought I'd say, yet here we are) and for Kim to reap the destruction she's sewn, mainly with Julian. He's given her SO MANY chances, but no amount of grief or confused and conflicting emotions can excuse what Kim's done.

[Katy M]

3 minutes ago, Pingaponga said:

Regarding Josslyn and Cam, do kids really start talking about university applications in Grade 11? I'm very confused about what grade they are in. They referred to their Junior year a while back, but today Joss referred to kids talking about university applications. In Canada (at least in my province), no one discusses applications until Grade 12.

I don't think you fill out apps until grade 12, because you wouldn't have enough info, but I remember I went on 2 campus visits during my spring break of 11th grade and another one over that summer.  So, I may have physically had the applications, but waited to fill them out?  So long ago.  I hate being old:)

[tvgoddess]

57 minutes ago, Pingaponga said:

Regarding Josslyn and Cam, do kids really start talking about university applications in Grade 11? I'm very confused about what grade they are in. They referred to their Junior year a while back, but today Joss referred to kids talking about university applications. In Canada (at least in my province), no one discusses applications until Grade 12.

You might start talking about them, but not completing them and sending them in until 12th grade. But junior year you can take the PSAT and ACT, so you would have some scores and grades to work with to start picking out colleges/universities. It's all moot anyway, we know they're going to PSU if they're going anywhere.

52 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I don't think you fill out apps until grade 12, because you wouldn't have enough info, but I remember I went on 2 campus visits during my spring break of 11th grade and another one over that summer.  So, I may have physically had the applications, but waited to fill them out?  So long ago.  I hate being old:)

Same. College shopping with Mom, I called it. And what a miserable trip it was, because she was horrible. I guess we flew out to Arizona, although I have absolutely no memory of it. But I vividly remember the campuses of both UofA and ASU. And Maryland, ugh.

[Katy M]

7 minutes ago, tvgoddess said:

You might start talking about them, but not completing them and sending them in until 12th grade. But junior year you can take the PSAT and ACT, so you would have some scores and grades to work with to start picking out colleges/universities. It's all moot anyway, we know they're going to PSU if they're going anywhere.

IIRC, I took the SATs spring of my junior year so that I would have time to retake fall of senior year if necessary.

[Hater]

They have got to do something with Kim.  She really should go, but since FV loves Tamara she won't go anywhere.

I am just perplexed. They had a clean slate with this character and turned her into a complete mess and a villain. 

GH does not do short term, they do long term.

Oh well FV will probably give Kim a tumor and all be forgiven. See Roger and Franco.   But even I think Franco/Roger had more of a fanbase than Kim/Tamara has now.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Hater

[YaddaYadda]

1 hour ago, Linny said:

Liz's slap definitely should've been ten times harder today. Kim's character is completely obliterated now. She avoided any accountability for the damage to Liz's marriage (not just the sex, but encouraging Franco to relive Drew's memories and completely cut Liz out of the equation) and she ditched Julian via letter, thus avoiding any fallout for her actions with him. So she's selfish AND a coward AND totally callous, on top of being delusional enough to believe she and "Drew" will live happily ever after (of the myriad of obstacles facing them, chief among them is Franco's marriage to Liz, which is still valid no matter what he calls himself). What do they do with this character who's burning bridges left and right without a single backwards glance? None of this feels good.

She didn't even give Julian the courtesy of calling him by his real name when she dumped him via whatever she said in that letter.

[lala2]

2 hours ago, luna1122 said:

Do we know that? I think Kim would fuck anybody who called himself Drew and said she was pretty. Including a minor.

I hate this stupid storyline. I used to love Kim but they've destroyed her.

Haha! Sadly, I agree w/you. She probably would, which might make for a more interesting story. Kim has shown she has no boundaries so I wouldn't be shocked if she slept w/Cameron simply b/c he started spewing some Drew memories! She will go to any low it seems. 

As far as Liz fighting for Franco is concerned - I have not seen today's scenes yet (and I am biased b/c I like both Franco and the Friz relationship), but I am happy she's fighting for him. I don't see that as a bad thing. She married the man. I should hope she would fight for him in this situation. I mean . . . . someone has to.

What has been done to him is criminal, and Kim is completely disregarding him to live out her fantasies. Franco's body has been overtaken and is being used against his will. It's simply not right. I'm not saying Liz has to fight forever, but I want to see her try her best to get back HER relationship and the man who loved her. 

[Hater]

Kim is no different than Liz or Sam.

Sam was only with Drew for his Jason memories and Liz lied to Jake Doe for months because she needed her "time" with Jason.

Same difference.

And this is another reason why I do not care about Liz and  her poor poor husband. I find the couple repulsive actually. Friz fans screaming rape about this when Franco is a sexual predator tumor or not and the Jake Doe/Liz thing just rings hollow.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Hater

[lala2]

4 minutes ago, Hater said:

Kim is no different than Liz or Sam.

Sam was only with Drew for his Jason memories and Liz lied to Jake Doe for months because she needed her "time" with Jason.

Same difference.

And this is another reason why I do not care about Liz and  her poor poor husband. I find the couple repulsive actually. Friz fans screaming rape about this when Franco is a sexual predator tumor or not and the Jake Doe/Liz thing just rings hollow.

Hey . . . I get it! Haha! As a Franco fan, I recognize how funny it is for me to be complaining about his body being violated.  I do understand. That said, I still think it's wrong. It was wrong for Franco to put Sam in bed and make her think he had raped her, and it is wrong - IMO at least - for Kim to sleep w/someone knowing he would never sleep w/her if he was in his right mind.  

I also thought Liz was wrong to stay w/"Jake" when she knew he was actually "Jason."  The Sam situation was a bit more complicated, IMO. It didn't help that the writing changed, but in all, I don't like characters' bodies being violated.

I'm not sure why the writers took Kim down this road, but they already had her almost raping Drew a few months ago so who knows what their ultimate plan is w/her. 

[ffwbe]

Sadly I think the plan for Kim is to find out she’s pregnant around the time Franco gets his memories back. Maybe a WTD with Franco and Julian. That’ll give her a storyline at least for the foreseeable future 

[ForeverPluto]

2 hours ago, Pingaponga said:

I think what the Franco/Drew-Kim thing boils down to is that if Kim were to get pregnant with his baby, the baby would not be a full-brother to Oscar, or a biological Quartermain. Because Franco/Drew does not have Drew's DNA.  What the baby would have as a father is someone who had Drew's memories, but not Drew's DNA.

Exactly!!! If she were to become pregnant, this baby would have Franco's DNA. Interesting because like Oscar, Franco also had a tumor although in Franco's case, it wasn't malignant, no? Even still, this tumor caused a lot of very sick behavior which contributed to Franco's crimes. (i.e. the tumor made him do it, lol!) I can remember that for this very reason, Franco was so against having a biological child with Nina for fear that this tumor might be genetic or that Franco somehow would pass "evil" down to his son/daughter. If Kim does become pregnant, it should be fascinating to see how this plays out.

[ciarra]

Please can I never see RoHo's scrawny chest and random tufts of chest hair ever again?  He needs to be like TB and have a death grip clutch on that sheet up against her chest.

[Gam2]

Not to change the subject (which truly bores me to death at this point) but I mentioned a few days ago that I wish Laura would get a new hairdo. Cassandra’s would look great on Laura!

[ulkis]

9 hours ago, lala2 said:

At this point, I fully support Liz committing him.  He's ruining Franco's life, and that's not right. 

Here we disagree. I think it's not right Franco's not in prison.

Unfortunately for me, I agree Franco will be himself soon. Liz found out about the sex immediately.

2 hours ago, Hater said:

They have got to do something with Kim.  She really should go, but since FV loves Tamara she won't go anywhere.

I am not so sure about that. I don't get why people think FV likes TB that much.

[Hater]

4 minutes ago, ulkis said:

Here we disagree. I think it's not right Franco's not in prison.

Unfortunately for me, I agree Franco will be himself soon. Liz found out about the sex immediately.

I am not so sure about that. I don't get why people think FV likes TB that much.

She's his "professional crush" well whatever I hope he let's her go.  Character is a big giant failure and they've made her the bad guy for all but 3 months she's been on.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Hater

[ulkis]

In other news, Lulu asking Maxie if she were horrified that Lulu had sex was stupid. Lulu would never think Maxie would think that.

Maybe wardrobe does hate Maxie. That shirt made Maxie's shoulders look huge.

1 minute ago, Hater said:

She's his "professional crush" well whatever I hope he let's her go.  Character is a big giant failure and they've made her the bad guy for all but 3 months she's been on.

Yeah, I read that but one line from FV means crap. He gave her Julian. imo that says how much he favors her. 

[Bringonthedrama]

1 hour ago, Hater said:

Kim is no different than Liz or Sam.

Sam was only with Drew for his Jason memories and Liz lied to Jake Doe for months because she needed her "time" with Jason.

Same difference.

Strongly disagree. Kim never thought of Franco as a personal friend and certainly not as a potential boyfriend; she only engaged in one-on-one conversations with him and hung on his every word once he started spouting he's Drew and wanting to know about Oscar and talking about the memories of Drew's feelings for her. 

Elizabeth and Jake Doe had not-just-friends/romantic moments well before she was told "Jake is Jason." He started out flirting with her while he was her patient, and they got closer from there. It's true that she wanted her "time with Jason" when they had sex, but their relationship did not start out with him claiming to be Jason. 

Sam considered Jake Doe a friend once she got to know him, had moments of him reminding her of Jason, and there was a possibility of attraction (like she didn't react in repulsion or discomfort when he said she would look "smokin' hot" in whatever article of clothing they were talking about).

[TeeVee329]

Tamara Braun has to be leaving, right?  There's no other explanation for how they had Kim react today. 

And what's sad is that, if she's not, Kim will get a teaspoon of whitewash compared to the gallons they dumped on us re: Franco over the years.

Gawd I hate this show.

Edited September 18, 2019 by TeeVee329

[Hater]

34 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

Strongly disagree. Kim never thought of Franco as a personal friend and certainly not as a potential boyfriend; she only engaged in one-on-one conversations with him and hung on his every word once he started spouting he's Drew and wanting to know about Oscar and talking about the memories of Drew's feelings for her. 

Elizabeth and Jake Doe had not-just-friends/romantic moments well before she was told "Jake is Jason." He started out flirting with her while he was her patient, and they got closer from there. It's true that she wanted her "time with Jason" when they had sex, but their relationship did not start out with him claiming to be Jason. 

Sam considered Jake Doe a friend once she got to know him, had moments of him reminding her of Jason, and there was a possibility of attraction (like she didn't react in repulsion or discomfort when he said she would look "smokin' hot" in whatever article of clothing they were talking about).

Liz lied to the man about who he truly was at the time just like Kim is doing now. I don't care if Jake Doe liked Liz before that once she knew who he was, she was actively lying.  Just like Kim is keeping this fantasy going without pushing Franco away and telling him their relationship is a lie.  Once Liz knew who Jake Doe was and decided to go on with the relationship, she kept up the lie as well. For me this is karma for her.  I don't care for Liz either way, but she did almost the same exact shit to someone else (Sam) four years ago.   We can split hairs all day about Jake Doe, the premise was essentially the same.

Sam is like Kim in that any man can be named "Jason" and she'd believe and be happy.

Both women are not much different from Kim other than having larger fanbases to back them up.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Hater

[Katy M]

2 minutes ago, Hater said:

iz lied to the man about who he truly was at the time just like Kim is doing now. I don't care if Jake Doe liked Liz before that once she knew who he was, she was actively lying.

Absolutely.  I was fine with her not blabbing it to the whole world at the Nurses' Ball.  That would have been equally ill-conceived, but she should have sat him down and told him when they got back home.

[TeeVee329]

4 minutes ago, Hater said:

Liz lied to the man about who he truly was at the time just like Kim is doing now

What made Liz look so bad, IMO, is the amount of time she wrestled with the knowledge.  She found out Jake Doe was really Jason and slept with him, like, two or three hours later.  So while I think Kim is ultiamtely grosser - it's the previous attempt to rape the real Drew that really ramps up the icky - Liz also did something quite morally heinous.

Edited September 19, 2019 by TeeVee329

[Hater]

18 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

What made Liz look so bad, IMO, is the amount of time she wrestled with the knowledge.  She found out Jake Doe was really Jason and slept with him, like, two or three hours later.  So while I think Kim is ultiamtely grosser - it's the previous attempt to rape the real Drew that really ramps up the icky - Liz also did something quite morally heinous.

I agree Kim definitely looks worse because Kim is just gross.  Liz still lied to "Jason" and continued on with her fantasy and eventually was found out.  Liz would have never said anything if Sam had not figured out the lie (of course this was all for naught in that Billy Miller never really was Jason).

I think a lot of the dialogue today was similar to what Sam told Liz four years ago about keeping the "Jason" secret.

Edit:  Liz was fine with letting Jake and Danny think their father was "dead." lol.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Hater

[Bringonthedrama]

9 minutes ago, Hater said:

Liz lied to the man about who he truly was at the time just like Kim is doing now.

Your first statement was "Kim is no different than Liz or Sam." That is not correct IMO. Kim has been lying to/withholding from Julian that she has 'feelings for' and has been kissing Franco, as well as indulging Franco's delusions to his face about who he really is - including the fact that he is NOT Oscar's father. Kim is living a fantasy/delusion that she is getting another chance to be with her "first love"/ her late son's father. My point was that yes, Elizabeth was wrong to lie back then but she's not just like Kim - she wasn't disregarding her own committed relationship, she was invested in this guy beforehand, and at the time they had sex she genuinely believed he was her son Jake's biological father because Jason is Jake's biological father. 

5 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

What made Liz look so bad, IMO, is the amount of time she wrestled with the knowledge.  She found out Jake Doe was really Jason and slept with him, like, two or three hours later.  So while I think Kim is ultiamtely grosser - it's the previous attempt to rape the real Drew that really ramps up the icky - Liz also did something quite morally heinous.

I agree with this. 

[statsgirl]

9 hours ago, NutmegsDad said:

Calling it: Cassandra IS Helena, with the memory procedure perfected.

As much as I love the idea, if she were Helena, she would know where the document is and wouldn't need Laura's help.

1 hour ago, Gam2 said:

Not to change the subject (which truly bores me to death at this point) but I mentioned a few days ago that I wish Laura would get a new hairdo. Cassandra’s would look great on Laura!

I dunno. I was at a meeting last year and every woman over 40 had Cassandra's long bob. I agree that they should do something about Laura's hair but not that look. Nina already has it, and so do Willow and Molly.

4 hours ago, Pingaponga said:

Regarding Josslyn and Cam, do kids really start talking about university applications in Grade 11? I'm very confused about what grade they are in. They referred to their Junior year a while back, but today Joss referred to kids talking about university applications. In Canada (at least in my province), no one discusses applications until Grade 12.

We started talking about universities in the second last year but applications only in the last year. (I say second last year because I'm old enough to have been in grade 13.)

3 hours ago, tvgoddess said:

It's all moot anyway, we know they're going to PSU if they're going anywhere.

Especially Joss. No way the scion of the Corinthos family is going off the show to university.

11 hours ago, Captanne said:

For me, it doesn't matter what memories Franco now has or who he thinks he is or who he wants to be.  He is a patient who underwent a strange and dangerous mind-altering experiment against his will.  He is now suffering mental delusions because of it.  He should be under a doctor's care and there are ALL KINDS of laws that can declare him non compos mentis.  It's the procedure and the results that cause that situation.  [snip]

 Metaphysically speaking, the writers are revealing a fundamental misunderstanding of the duty of care in a bargain with "love in the afternoon" being more interesting and getting more people to buy Zimbalta and Swiffer Wet Jets.  To my mind, that is professionally corrupt and really colors my opinion of the series in general.

I was at my Ethical Standards class today (which is why I missed today's episode) so this is all very salient. 

Kim has no duty of care to FrankenDrew because she is not his doctor. She would be wrong if she tried to act as his doctor in any way.

The GH doctors have a duty to offer care to FrankenDrew but unless he is a danger to himself or others (and breaking Liz's heart doesn't count), they cannot force treatment on him.  Liz may be able to go to court and stop him from doing any legal decisions but she can't make him undergo Andre's treatment or stop him from sleeping with Kim.

11 hours ago, Katy M said:

I thought the rules were you can be whoever you  want as long as you're not hurting anyone.  Physically or financially.  Hurting feelings doesn't count.

You can't take the identity of another person. That's identity theft.

He can call himself Drew Caine but he can't be the Drew Caine who was Jason's twin and joined the SEALs and was Oscar's father.

3 hours ago, Hater said:

Oh well FV will probably give Kim a tumor and all be forgiven. See Roger and Franco.   But even I think Franco/Roger had more of a fanbase than Kim/Tamara has now.

They don't even need a tumor -- it's going to be a psychosis from grief at Oscar's death with a side note of losing Drew in the plane crash.

[Hater]

18 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

Your first statement was "Kim is no different than Liz or Sam." That is not correct IMO. Kim has been lying to/withholding from Julian that she has 'feelings for' and has been kissing Franco, as well as indulging Franco's delusions to his face about who he really is - including the fact that he is NOT Oscar's father. Kim is living a fantasy/delusion that she is getting another chance to be with her "first love"/ her late son's father. My point was that yes, Elizabeth was wrong to lie back then but she's not just like Kim - she wasn't disregarding her own committed relationship, she was invested in this guy beforehand, and at the time they had sex she genuinely believed he was her son Jake's biological father because Jason is Jake's biological father. 

I don't think it's whether it's correct or not it's my opinion.  Kim appears grosser for me like @TeeVee329 said because of almost raping real Drew.  Kim may be disregarding Julian but Liz completely disregarded "Jason's" entire life and the fact that his two kids thought he was dead and she was fine with keeping that lie as long as she had Jake Doe.  That's not in any way better for me. It might be even worse because they were children.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Hater

[seasons]

That last 30 seconds or so of today S episode was awesome! It's not often these shows surprise me anymore, but Liz and the attendants busting up the lovebirds and their childish plans to "get to the airport and go anywhere" ( paraphrasing ) was freaking great. That look on Liz's face was priceless. Payback is a bitch, kim! 

[dubbel zout]

2 hours ago, lala2 said:

I also thought Liz was wrong to stay w/"Jake" when she knew he was actually "Jason."

Did anyone not? That situation was disgusting.

"I should be thinking of Oscar!" No, you shouldn't Joss. Life goes on. If you can't accept this, you need to talk to a therapist, pronto.

1 hour ago, ForeverPluto said:

If Kim does become pregnant, it should be fascinating to see how this plays out.

Ugh, not for me. I find this whole story line absolutely repellent.

How self-involved is Sonny that Jason has to remind him about his (probably not) special-needs child needing the time and energy that Sonny would give to Dev to adopt him? Good grief.

"I need another set of eyes on this." "Let me guess: Spinelli." The way Sonny said that was so hilariously petulant. He wants Jason all to himself!

8 minutes ago, seasons said:

That last 30 seconds or so of today S episode was awesome!

It was excellent soap, for a change.