Episode Discussion: TFGH

[Ambrosefolly]

I might be one of the few people that didn't think Silas was terrible.

Edited April 7, 2018 by Ambrosefolly

[dubbel zout]

Silas had his problems, but current Franco is much worse. Franco should have stayed James Franco's vanity project and dead.

[nilyank]

They should have made him Valentin. 

[lala2]

2 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

It is mainly RoHo that they are keeping, an yes I do think FV would hold onto an actor if he or she were a big enough name. 

I guess. We can just agree to disagree. I still think they could have gotten rid of "Franco" and just brought Roger on as someone different if Franco was so detrimental to the show. But that's JMO. We'll never actually know the true story anyway. 

 

1 hour ago, Perkie said:

Well sure, what else is she going to do, bad mouth him ?  "He doesn't shower, never washes his hair, always eats in scenes...."

She seemed genuine, but who knows? Again . . . a lot of this stuff we're discussing involves pure speculation.

We don't know what the actors think about their characters or their stories. Even if they praise a story we enjoy, we'll never actually know if they're being sincere. At the end of the day, what the actors think doesn't matter IMO. The only thing that matters is the viewer's personal enjoyment of the story (or not). I have no idea how long ABC plans to keep airing GH, so I just enjoy the stories I do until they're over and FF the ones I don't. 

[TeeVee329]

1 hour ago, lala2 said:

I guess. We can just agree to disagree. I still think they could have gotten rid of "Franco" and just brought Roger on as someone different if Franco was so detrimental to the show. But that's JMO. We'll never actually know the true story anyway. 

I think it's important to remember that it wasn't like Frank and Ron were all, "You know, this Silas character isn't working, let's just get rid of him and come up with something better for you, Mikey."  That axing was forced on them by the network at the last minute when they tried to off Ric in that story, right before Ron got fired.  And only when Frank got back a modicum of control did he bump into his buddy at the dry cleaners or whatever and hire him back.  So I don't know if firing an actor and then rehiring him or her back as a new character is a typical card they can play.

Edited April 8, 2018 by TeeVee329

[Oracle42]

2 hours ago, nilyank said:

They should have made him Valentin. 

That would have been so much better. SO. MUCH. BETTER.

[nilyank]

I mean as Valentin, RH could still be a questionable sketchy character and they would have given a cute poppet to act as her father. RH plays well opposite young children. Now keeping Charlotte away from Lulu and killing Nikolas should have prevented him hooking up with certain women. However if he started the show as Valentin from the very beginning, we could speak a year at least of him and Nikolas fighting each other for the Cassadine legacy and having him have the knowledge of Jake Doe being Jason and not Nikolas then Liz.

[P3pp3rb1rd]

I am quite simply hating RoHo in his hypnotherapy scenes. I think he is trying to make Jon Lindstrom break into a smile. RoHo's childish acting tics shouldn't be used in such a mean manner on another actor who is trying to do a professional job and stay in character.

[rur]

I don't think of some of those things as tics, since I think of tics as things the actors might be unaware they're doing. He pulls a lot of crap intentionally. And that's why I have no respect for him and would like him off the show. A professional just doesn't do that. 

[ulkis]

17 minutes ago, rur said:

I don't think of some of those things as tics, since I think of tics as things the actors might be unaware they're doing. He pulls a lot of crap intentionally. And that's why I have no respect for him and would like him off the show. A professional just doesn't do that. 

I'm not a RoHo fan, but I think FV tells him to do a lot of that crap. That scene where Franco was eating an orange and gave some to Liz, FV told him to eat the orange on screen.

[TeeVee329]

Oh Frank, why!  I mean, I know why, Roger Howarth die-hards eat that shit up, but still, get a new bit.

[dubbel zout]

Frank loves to grind things down to the nub. “Ted,” anyone? Even I’m tired of that now.

[TeeVee329]

Frank also aided and abetted Ron during the Chuckles/Twinkle era of OLTL. #bonedeepshudder

[dubbel zout]

He doesn't understand that just because something is a running joke/theme doesn't mean it has to be mentioned all the time.

[TeeVee329]

Wow, you mean Franco isn't to-the-bone evil and actually had a plausible reason for pushing Drew down the stairs, whoever would have guessed when this storyline began six billion years ago! #somanyeyerolls

I mean...there was some good acting today and some good writing tackling this tough subject, but I can't help seeing this whole enterprise as the show being, "Well now you can't hate Franco, he's a child abuse survivor" and it's like, "Well...".

And then we had Michael being all judge-y about Brad's past misdeeds, which is somewhat valid (I had forgotten until today about Brad grossly trying to blackmail Michael into sex, fuckin' Ron*) but also bullshitty considering, you know, the forgiveness he's bestowed on the likes of Sonny and Carly.

I'm also gonna need Britt to break out of prison and snatch Nelle for trying to bogart her bestie.

* Although wait, wasn't there a scene where Brad apologized to Michael, which Michael accepted?

Edited April 9, 2018 by TeeVee329

[lala2]

So, I know many here may not agree, but I really loved the Franco/Jim scenes. I happen to be home from work today and caught the episode. It was really good, IMO.

We finally know for sure what happened to Franco as a child. I thought the scenes were really well done. I really believed Franco when he told Jim he was not going to hurt him, but was going to kill him.  GE and RoHo did a really good job in those scenes. The FBs were effective. I also thought the scenes w/Elizabeth, Scott, Drew, and Jordan were good. I was not surprised to see Drew at the end. I was happy he showed up. 

I also happen to love and adore Brad, which may not be popular here either. LOL! I just loved how Nelle stood up for him. Yes, Brad did some bad things in the past, but he has long since moved past those things and shouldn't be defined by them. I thought everything Nelle said to Michael was accurate. Michael is so judgmental and annoying. I love Sonny, but he's done awful things too, and I don't see Michael warning ppl away from him! Michael . . . just shut up when it comes to Brad! I must say I also loved Nelle's attitude re: the family. Too bad, they did this gas lighting crap w/her. She could be a good character if they just stopped this whatever she has going w/Carly.  No one wins against CarSon so what's the point? 

Anyway, great episode for me! I will definitely rewatch it, esp. for the Franco/Jim showdown. 

 

ETA: TeeVee, you are correct. Brad did apologize to Michael, and Michael was fine w/Brad. That rant came out of nowhere and was completely unnecessary. As a huge Brad fan, I will be very upset if they only brought him out of the closet (no pun intended) to dirty him up! 

Oh, and the acting was good in those Franco scenes. Glad you could at least enjoy the good acting since I know you're not too keen on the character :)

Edited April 9, 2018 by lala2

[ulkis]

Man, the Soup would have had a field day with that. At least some of it.

Nelle and Brad are friends now?

Whose idea was it to style Nelle and Joss' hair similiarly? 

[seasons]

That was a very real and powerful scene between RH and GE today. Very well done by both actors and well-written. Intense. 

Edited April 9, 2018 by seasons

[Linny]

I snorted out loud when Nelle said she feels like she never sees Lucas. You ain't the only one, honey. I'm sure this instant friendship between Nelle and Brad will lead to baby mix-up shenanigans, which is obnoxious, but I liked her sticking up for Brad today. Pious Michael can take his objections and shove them up his ass, since the very people Michael's closest to have done waaaay worse things than Brad.

I miss the Joss from last year who hated Sonny and gave Carly hell. Now she's just Carly's protégé in messing with everyone else's lives. She needs to can it with the "Nelle is meant for you, Michael!" talk. 

I'm conflicted with the Franco stuff, because making him a victim of sexual abuse doesn't absolve him from the damage he perpetrated on Michael and Sam. Those are actions he committed without facing repercussions and without providing adequate contrition for his behavior, IMO, and I'm not just going to forget and forgive that due to Franco's abuse by Jim. That being said, I did enjoy the acting in the Franco/Harvey showdown, and I thought the writing hit the exact right tone in portraying the sinister way Jim lured Bobby in with gifts before hurting him. It was as creepy and uncomfortable as it needed to be without crossing the line into lurid, and I commend the show for that.

[linsav]

20 minutes ago, Linny said:

I'm conflicted with the Franco stuff, because making him a victim of sexual abuse doesn't absolve him from the damage he perpetrated on Michael and Sam. Those are actions he committed without facing repercussions and without providing adequate contrition for his behavior, IMO, and I'm not just going to forget and forgive that due to Franco's abuse by Jim. That being said, I did enjoy the acting in the Franco/Harvey showdown, and I thought the writing hit the exact right tone in portraying the sinister way Jim lured Bobby in with gifts before hurting him. It was as creepy and uncomfortable as it needed to be without crossing the line into lurid, and I commend the show for that.

Todd Manning was sexually, physically and mentally abused by him adoptive father and that was not used to excuse Todd's actions when it came out later on.  Todd himself would not let it be used as an excuse and this just feels like it is being used as an excuse with Franco.  They have tried everything to get him to be as popular as Todd Manning was and still have failed. At this point in time I could give a rats a$$ about what happened to Franco because he has been shoved down our throats for waaaay too long.  He was tolerable with Nina and he was acting like a adult.   Plus I hate the fact that Drew has to be in the middle of all this ish.

Edited April 9, 2018 by linsav

[TeeVee329]

29 minutes ago, Linny said:

I snorted out loud when Nelle said she feels like she never sees Lucas. You ain't the only one, honey. I'm sure this instant friendship between Nelle and Brad will lead to baby mix-up shenanigans, which is obnoxious, but I liked her sticking up for Brad today.

Yeah, Shelly Altman, you're being super progressive and groundbreaking with your gay adoption storyline when you're making meta jokes about how one half of the couple is never seen. #eyeroll

And of course, this new bond with Brad and Nelle is all about setting up future baby swaps, and to give Brad an outlet to update us on the adoption, given we don't get to see him have conversations with his husband GRRRR!

Also, does this mean Brad has no relationship with mother-in-law Bobbie?  That doesn't sound right.

Edited April 9, 2018 by TeeVee329

[ulkis]

Oh, and I think BH and BM have chemistry.

[YaddaYadda]

I find that storylines like the one they are doing with Franco are emotional blackmail.

[Sake614]

26 minutes ago, linsav said:

Todd Manning was sexually, physically and mentally abused by him adoptive father

Todd was not sexually abused by Peter Manning.  If you’re referring to the whole ‘Todd hs DID’ story, I’m still not convinced any of it was real but rather just another attempt to get himself out of trouble with Blair. Peter was certainly emotionally abusive and possibly physically as well. But there was never any mention that I remember of sexual abuse.

[lala2]

3 minutes ago, Sake614 said:

Todd was not sexually abused by Peter Manning.  If you’re referring to the whole ‘Todd hs DID’ story, I’m still not convinced any of it was real but rather just another attempt to get himself out of trouble with Blair. Peter was certainly emotionally abusive and possibly physically as well. But there was never any mention that I remember of sexual abuse.

Didn't Todd catch a plane and hint to his mentor (whose name is escaping me right now) that he wasn't lying about the sexual abuse? I remember thinking at the end that he had been sexually abused after all. In any event, Peter Manning was a complete monster. 

But back to Franco - as a Franco fan, I think one could feel bad that Franco was raped repeatedly as a child by that pervert Jim Harvey AND still think he's an awful man for terrorizing PC, Sam, etc. or think he hasn't fully taken responsibility for his actions. Those two thoughts aren't mutually exclusive. Who knows where this story is leading though? It could be over, or the writers could have more fallout planned.  Since this is one of the only stories capturing my interest, I'm hoping to see more fallout for Franco b/c of these revelations, but we shall see. 

[HeatLifer]

27 minutes ago, ulkis said:

Oh, and I think BH and BM have chemistry.

They always did. BM has chemistry with KeMo and LW, too. He just lacked it with the male characters other than DT.

Also, please message me when this compete bullshit with Franco is off my screen. 

[Darklazr]

Yes, BH and BM have amazing chemistry and it still pisses me off that Elizabeth/Nicholas/Lake was sacrificed for another round of JaSam.  Blech.

Remember Jake Doe's comment that he memorized Elizabeth's entire face?!  Swooooooooooooon!

Todd's adoptive father beat the physically and mentally abusive.  I don't care about the new retcon that Franco was sexually assaulted crap.   Bye, Franco!  Die, Franco!  Dieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

I wish Elizabeth and Scotty had story that did not entail propping Franco.  Elizabeth and Jason should be working together to figure out what happened to Jake on CI and having father and son bond.  Elizabeth should be the main focus of Jake, Cam and Aiden's art and not some serial killing rapist that is needed by FV.  

Carly is a dumbass.  Her first thought should have been Nelle and not acting like let's hope he's still dead Morgan is alive.

Love Brad and hate that Lucas is not on the show.

We all know Nelle's plans are going to backfire.

There is ZERO chemistry between CarSon!

GE is doing stellar work, it's too bad that he wasn't cast as Dr. Jeff Webber.

[truthaboutluv]

5 hours ago, ulkis said:

Oh, and I think BH and BM have chemistry.

IMO, Billy Miller has had great chemistry with all of his onscreen love interests and I'm including his time on Y&R in that as well. It's why I'm willing to see where things go with Drew and Kim because whatever flaws he may have in his performances, I cannot say I have ever thought he lacked chemistry in his onscreen romances.

I also think it's what's making Burton and KeMo's Jasam "redux" seem off and a bit lacking because I think Kelly's chemistry and onscreen connection with Billy Miller has sort of overshadowed the original JaSam love story. YMMV

Edited April 10, 2018 by truthaboutluv

[P3pp3rb1rd]

3 hours ago, Linny said:

I'm conflicted with the Franco stuff, because making him a victim of sexual abuse doesn't absolve him from the damage he perpetrated on Michael and Sam. Those are actions he committed without facing repercussions and without providing adequate contrition for his behavior, IMO, and I'm not just going to forget and forgive that due to Franco's abuse by Jim. That being said, I did enjoy the acting in the Franco/Harvey showdown, and I thought the writing hit the exact right tone in portraying the sinister way Jim lured Bobby in with gifts before hurting him. It was as creepy and uncomfortable as it needed to be without crossing the line into lurid, and I commend the show for that.

I FF through the Franco/Harvey showdown completely out of disgust for being held hostage and expected to view it with my eyelids taped open by the writers. TOO LITTLE TOO LATE, writers! The Show wasted our time and patience too long with the Franco character, and I wasn't in the mood to take more of it.

GH can't rehabilitate RoHo's Franco, especially when the character is ready to execute Harvey summarily instead of turning him over to the police. The whole showdown painted Franco's arrogance and unwilling cooperation with society and societal norms. He's never paid for most if not all of his crimes, nor has he shown remorse. When the tumor excuse didn't wash, the show adopted the ridiculous strategy of retconning a sexual abuse story that was supposed to excuse Franco's sociopathic adult behavior. If it did provide an excuse, wouldn't society need to readmit a lot of sociopaths and serial killers with the same sad background story? Defense lawyers would have a field day!

[Hater]

The Franco stuff is just so nauseating and it's beyond overkill.  Give it up already. Although like some of have said this just seems like more emmy bait than anything else for Roho.  I haven't watched a lick of this outside of the stuff when he was trapped with Drew and Drew's stuff last week.  

Every recent sexual assault/molestation story is somehow linked to Franco in some way at this point.  

Edited April 10, 2018 by Hater

[TVbitch]

Did Joss have work done between Friday and today. Jesus God, she looked 10 years older and had pageant hair and makeup. Way overdone for a teenager. 

[dubbel zout]

Shut up, Joss. Ugh, she's as obnoxious about wanting Michael and Nelle together as Molly used to be about various couples.

LOL that what Sonny takes away from everything Carly told him about the phone calls and stuff is that Jason and Dante knew before Sonny did.

I liked Nelle defending Brad to Michael, but of course it's setting up the inevitable baby swap, however that works out.

Drew shooting Greg Evigan seemed a bit OOC. What happened to clocking someone?

[Cheyanne11]

4 hours ago, ulkis said:

Oh, and I think BH and BM have chemistry.

They always did.  And Billy is fantastic with the kid who plays Jake.  Miles better than SBu is with him.

[Hater]

9 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

Did Joss have work done between Friday and today. Jesus God, she looked 10 years older and had pageant hair and makeup. Way overdone for a teenager. 

The actress wears her make up off screen like that.  She always looks 10 years older on instagram.

[LillyB]

Joss, I think that Michael is old enough to know what he wants and that it isn't Nelle, so stay away from your brother's love life. He doesn't need a 14 year old telling him how to conduct his love life.

[Hater]

8 minutes ago, Cheyanne11 said:

They always did.  And Billy is fantastic with the kid who plays Jake.  Miles better than SBu is with him.

I feel like romance and playing family is what Billy excels at.  He even tries his best with that Danny actor and it's like pulling teeth getting anything out of that kid.  I just don't get any warmth from Burton in scenes with his "kids."   This time around at least.

[ciarra]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

Drew shooting Greg Evigan seemed a bit OOC. What happened to clocking someone?

ITA.  And shooting an unarmed guy in the back?  That's more of a SWSNBN thing to do, not a freakin' Navy SEAL.

Even bigger crime was shooting BJ before he strangled Franco to death.

[Oracle42]

6 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

Also, please message me when this compete bullshit with Franco is off my screen. 

That's why I lurve you.

 

But don't you wanna see whether I get Woobie!Franco Bingo?

 

On 1/26/2018 at 2:04 PM, Oracle42 said:

I'm going with -  he has DID because his mom's boyfriend molested him, and all of his SERIAL KILLING was done by his alter Danco. Also, My Two Dads pushed Drew down the stairs to convince Franco not to tell - so poor, poor Franco expressed his bad touch pain by serial murdering random innocent people, orchestrating the rape of another young boy and pretend raping Jason's wife because he was obsessed with Jason. Also, TUMORS!

[ByaNose]

Why does the actress who plays Joss looks so much older? All of the sudden she looks different. It's almost like the Kelly scenes were taped last week while last weeks shows were taped months ago. I can't put my finger on it. She's a teenager after all so maybe she is just maturing faster without SORAS being involved. LOL!!!!!

Edited April 10, 2018 by ByaNose

[ulkis]

I think the Joss actress looked older than her age even before the pageant make-up . . . maybe it's her height and the depth of her voice.

Edited April 10, 2018 by ulkis

[P3pp3rb1rd]

Didn't Carly remember that the earthquake inspector was coming over to check the house construction and was delayed just a bit? She really overreacted when Sonny walked into the room.

Michael should have been firmer with Joss when she freely gave her relationship advice to reunite Michael and Nell. She's taking after her mom Carly in being a busy-body.

[30 Helens]

As a viewer who only knows Roger Hogarth from his work on GH (never saw OLTL), I like him and I’m glad he’s on the show. But I do wish he could have stayed Todd Manning or been given a different character.  Franco as a character has always been problematic and the writers have not helped matters any by trying to short-cut the redemption arcs.  IMO, they missed a big opportunity when the big Tumor Of Culpability was revealed.  At that time, Franco could have been horrified by the fact that he was driven to do things that were beyond his control.  He could have done some real soul searching and expressed genuine remorse.  Instead, he basically shrugged and said “Not my fault. Tumor did it.”  So unless and until the writers make Franco take responsibility for his actions, or at least feel bad about them, I don’t see how the character can ever be redeemed, no matter how many excuses they hand him.

 

In other matters, I agree that Joss and Oscar are boring.  Kiki is boring. As are Michael, Molly and TJ.  The entire younger set is nice and kind and lacking in personality.  Remember when Liz first appeared and was a cigarette smoking, school ditching semi-delinquent? And teenage Brenda, who was self-centered and conniving? Even Kiki, when she was introduced, was a poker-playing scam artist.  I’m not saying there isn’t room for characters who are good hearted, but some of them need to have more of an edge if there is to be any chance of interesting drama amongst the younger set.  And Nelle doesn’t count.  She’s just an idiot.

[RedheadZombie]

13 hours ago, Linny said:

I snorted out loud when Nelle said she feels like she never sees Lucas. You ain't the only one, honey. I'm sure this instant friendship between Nelle and Brad will lead to baby mix-up shenanigans, which is obnoxious, but I liked her sticking up for Brad today. Pious Michael can take his objections and shove them up his ass, since the very people Michael's closest to have done waaaay worse things than Brad.

I miss the Joss from last year who hated Sonny and gave Carly hell. Now she's just Carly's protégé in messing with everyone else's lives. She needs to can it with the "Nelle is meant for you, Michael!" talk. 

I'm conflicted with the Franco stuff, because making him a victim of sexual abuse doesn't absolve him from the damage he perpetrated on Michael and Sam. Those are actions he committed without facing repercussions and without providing adequate contrition for his behavior, IMO, and I'm not just going to forget and forgive that due to Franco's abuse by Jim. That being said, I did enjoy the acting in the Franco/Harvey showdown, and I thought the writing hit the exact right tone in portraying the sinister way Jim lured Bobby in with gifts before hurting him. It was as creepy and uncomfortable as it needed to be without crossing the line into lurid, and I commend the show for that.

I'm increasingly curious how this particular part of the swap happens.  This insta-friendship is for a reason, and I wonder if Nelle will deliberately give Brad the baby.  Brad may even knowingly take the baby considering he played into all of Britt's machinations.  There has to be a reason that it's constantly Brad in the adoption SL instead of the better actor and more popular character of Lucas.

[Perkie]

8 hours ago, ciarra said:

Even bigger crime was shooting BJ before he strangled Franco to death.

This!  Also Carly not clocking Sonny with the baseball bat when he came in.  

 

6 hours ago, P3pp3rb1rd said:

Didn't Carly remember that the earthquake inspector was coming over to check the house construction and was delayed just a bit?

Wasnt there a second text to Bobbie, that said he didn't show up after all and Bobbie said she would reschedule for another day?  

[Asp Burger]

With regard to having Howarth play Valentin, Valentin as written actually bothers me more than Franco. I don't know what it was with Jelly, but they had a habit of shooting their own new characters in the foot. Either they brought them on in some permanently damaging way, or they gave them needlessly overcomplicated and confusing back stories that never stopped coming out, or both. Valentin. being a little of A and a little of B, was a total Jelly-roll.

Now the very able and charismatic James Patrick Stuart is stuck playing a guy who's moved into the role of "resident Cassadine" and is presented as a morally gray character who's a plausible romantic leading man and sings Billy Joel ballads. We're supposed to sympathize with him when he's strong-armed by hypochondriac drug queenpins or having traumatic memories of his time as a stuttering unloved hunchback in the WSB basement. But it's impossible to forget that he got everything he presently has by murdering Nikolas onscreen. Nikolas was not always a prize himself, but he had been on the show for 20 years and was obviously the sympathetic one in that particular conflict. And, yes, other characters on the show bring the murder up from time to time, but there's something weirdly weightless about it, considering how significant it was. Nina and Valentin have this "Not that again" attitude whenever it comes up. There's no real redress for it. Now it's even worse, because Laura and Spencer are off canvas, so it's just Lulu, and she has to co-parent with the asshole.

It's problematic, and it's something I wish Van Etten would dig Valentin out of somehow. Even if Nikolas were to be recast and return, I don't think it would help Valentin, because it would be a "no thanks to him" situation. Unless they were secretly collaborating for some reason.  

[BlancheDevoreaux]

2 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

I'm increasingly curious how this particular part of the swap happens.  This insta-friendship is for a reason, and I wonder if Nelle will deliberately give Brad the baby.  Brad may even knowingly take the baby considering he played into all of Britt's machinations.  There has to be a reason that it's constantly Brad in the adoption SL instead of the better actor and more popular character of Lucas.

I fully believe Nelle is setting up Brad and Lucas. I think that her plan here is to have it seem like the baby was kidnapped leading to her and Michael having to lean on each other which, in her mind will naturally bring them closer together. Then, when it turns out the baby was kidnapped by Brad, who Michael already knows is evil and Lucas, Carly's own brother, that will be the final straw and Michael will ditch his crazy family and go to Nelle.  Naturally, none of that will work out as she has planned and she will end up dead or locked away in the loony bin.

[lala2]

2 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

With regard to having Howarth play Valentin, Valentin as written actually bothers me more than Franco. I don't know what it was with Jelly, but they had a habit of shooting their own new characters in the foot. Either they brought them on in some permanently damaging way, or they gave them needlessly overcomplicated and confusing back stories that never stopped coming out, or both. Valentin. being a little of A and a little of B, was a total Jelly-roll.

We're supposed to sympathize with him when he's strong-armed by hypochondriac drug queenpins or having traumatic memories of his time as a stuttering unloved hunchback in the WSB basement. But it's impossible to forget that he got everything he presently has by murdering Nikolas onscreen. Nikolas was not always a prize himself, but he had been on the show for 20 years and was obviously the sympathetic one in that particular conflict. And, yes, other characters on the show bring the murder up from time to time, but there's something weirdly weightless about it, considering how significant it was. Nina and Valentin have this "Not that again" attitude whenever it comes up. There's no real redress for it. Now it's even worse, because Laura and Spencer are off canvas, so it's just Lulu, and she has to co-parent with the asshole.

Oh, I couldn't agree more w/you. Valentin is much more troublesome for me than Franco. As you said, he murdered Nikolas in cold blood for money, and Lulu and Laura were portrayed as the awful ones for being upset about it! Not to mention - he threatened Spencer, sent Lulu off to be murdered, shot at Laura, set up a bunch of ppl to be murdered, and stole Lulu's last remaining, viable egg and implanted it in someone else! The worst part is no one cares about any of it, and those that do are the "bad guys." Whatever! I just can't w/Valentin! He disgusts me. And his stuttering hunchback back story did nothing for me. 

[dubbel zout]

3 hours ago, Perkie said:

Wasnt there a second text to Bobbie, that said he didn't show up after all and Bobbie said she would reschedule for another day?  

Yes. Carly told Sonny (after tragically not clubbing him to death with the baseball bat) that she'd gone down the Morgan rabbit hole after finding the broken picture. It was the usual awkward soap passage of time.

[LexieLily]

2 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

With regard to having Howarth play Valentin, Valentin as written actually bothers me more than Franco. I don't know what it was with Jelly, but they had a habit of shooting their own new characters in the foot. Either they brought them on in some permanently damaging way, or they gave them needlessly overcomplicated and confusing back stories that never stopped coming out, or both. Valentin. being a little of A and a little of B, was a total Jelly-roll.

Now the very able and charismatic James Patrick Stuart is stuck playing a guy who's moved into the role of "resident Cassadine" and is presented as a morally gray character who's a plausible romantic leading man and sings Billy Joel ballads. We're supposed to sympathize with him when he's strong-armed by hypochondriac drug queenpins or having traumatic memories of his time as a stuttering unloved hunchback in the WSB basement. But it's impossible to forget that he got everything he presently has by murdering Nikolas onscreen. Nikolas was not always a prize himself, but he had been on the show for 20 years and was obviously the sympathetic one in that particular conflict. And, yes, other characters on the show bring the murder up from time to time, but there's something weirdly weightless about it, considering how significant it was. Nina and Valentin have this "Not that again" attitude whenever it comes up. There's no real redress for it. Now it's even worse, because Laura and Spencer are off canvas, so it's just Lulu, and she has to co-parent with the asshole.

It's problematic, and it's something I wish Van Etten would dig Valentin out of somehow. Even if Nikolas were to be recast and return, I don't think it would help Valentin, because it would be a "no thanks to him" situation. Unless they were secretly collaborating for some reason.  

 

31 minutes ago, lala2 said:

Oh, I couldn't agree more w/you. Valentin is much more troublesome for me than Franco. As you said, he murdered Nikolas in cold blood for money, and Lulu and Laura were portrayed as the awful ones for being upset about it! Not to mention - he threatened Spencer, sent Lulu off to be murdered, shot at Laura, set up a bunch of ppl to be murdered, and stole Lulu's last remaining, viable egg and implanted it in someone else! The worst part is no one cares about any of it, and those that do are the "bad guys." Whatever! I just can't w/Valentin! He disgusts me. And his stuttering hunchback back story did nothing for me. 

And I couldn't agree more with both of you, and that isn't even getting into the only reason Lulu has to co-parent with that asshole is that he blackmailed her into shared custody by successfully bribing Ava into recanting her statement about Nikolas' death - AFTER the first custody trial gave him AND Nina sole custody of the child. (Yes, Lulu acted badly at first when she first learned of Charlotte but don't pretend that first custody trial wasn't shady as hell and rigged in Valentin's favor.) I'm also not forgetting that the first time shared holidays came up in regards to shared custody, Valentin and Nina immediately demanded both Christmas Eve and Christmas Day and acted affronted and appalled that Lulu dared to ask for Thanksgiving. The writers can say whatever they want to say is happening off-screen but I find it very hard to believe Valentin/Nina aren't purposefully making it difficult for Lulu to spend time with Charlotte any more than she is legally allowed.

I'm not looking forward to the hypocrisy of Nina railing on Valentin for having played part in Nathan's death when she couldn't care less that he murdered Lulu's brother, Charlotte's uncle.

[HeatLifer]

12 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

That's why I lurve you

 

<3

I just can't do it anymore. How we've gotten to a point where longtime characters like Sam and Robin have been victimized and their torturers are "excused", "redeemed", and even defended by the writers makes my stomach churn.

Edited April 10, 2018 by HeatLifer