Caitlyn Jenner: Call Me Caitlyn

[DangerousMinds]

Long article written by Linda Thompson on living/loving with Bruce.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/linda-thompson/bruce-jenner-linda-thompson_b_7080918.htmlI'm having a hard time figuring out why this matters and why it matters now, when Bruce's interview has come out so positive in the press and now this jerk of a child is going to make it all negative so the press/tabloids have things to attack and twist the good Bruce did into something else. Does it matter how long they supported him? Bruce has said it was hard for Khloe to come around, Kim's said out right it was not easy. Kanye helped her come around, Kourt was worried for Mason Kylie has also said something similar. Bruce said they were all worried about him. I doubt any of the kids (who he actually raised these past 25 years which wasn't Burt) would be jumping up and down for joy when they were told, it would take time to process. I don't see any of them acting like they were all along supporting him, but supporting and loving him now. That's what matters not how long it took to get there. This comment was just so unnecessary.

I don't blame Burt for being angry and bitter at some of the reactions. This is his dad. I was very impressed with the Linda Thompson article; I found it very insightful and well-written.

Edited April 26, 2015 by DangerousMinds

[Jellybeans]

I am fine with Bruce deciding to be a woman. But truth be told, if my son came to me and told me he was changing his gender I would be very upset- I would be like Cher, wondering where her daughter went.

I am happy for Bruce and happy I do not have to deal with it.

[Almost 3000]

I don't think anyone should be judged on their reaction to something like this (even the Kardashians!). I know I wouldn't take it in stride if my dad or my husband told me he was a woman.

Yes, it can take awhile to process and all the layers and pieces still aren't there for Bruce or his family. Many years ago I dated someone for four years and after three he told me he liked to cross dress. At first it wasn't a big deal but it was the layers and pieces that just kept being added to dressing until it was seemingly just about that and the boyfriend I knew was lost to me. I guess what I'm trying to say is supporting someone that is going through this that is also a parent, spouse or significant other is tough because there is a deep sense of loss.

[ByTor]

I don't blame Burt for being angry and bitter at some of the reactions. This is his dad.

I don't either.  We have no way of knowing what was said behind the scenes.

[GaT]

This is insane, how can they get away with this?

http://www.gossipcop.com/bruce-jenner-vagina-photo-fake-gender-reassignment-surgery-picture-mediatakeout/

[ms.o]

Regarding Burt- if it was a situation where a person was bashing, insulting, or rude to parent but later act like everything was awesome? I would probably react same way. Doesn't meant its right/mature, but I could understand the Twitter rant.

[Artsda]

We don't know if they were being rude to the parent, if Kylie or Kendall or Khloe were rude and reacted bashing him. Even if they did, it's their business. It's their father-daughter relationship with Bruce and if Bruce and them can move on and get over it then that's between them. He knows how hard it must be for them because they live in the public eye unlike Burt. 

 

Burt wanting to put people on "blast" and call out Bruce's own family members that he loves on twitter is not and should not be what this is about. He turned all the good and positive into all this and more because of his cryptic cry for attention tweet that wasn't necessary when all the tweets from the rest of the family has been in support of Bruce:

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/burt-jenner-hypocritical-supporters-bruce-jenner-2015264

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/bruce-jenner-oldest-son-calls-bandwagon-supporters-article-1.2199900

http://www.cosmopolitan.com/entertainment/news/a39629/bruce-jenners-slams-mystery-phony-supporters-of-his-dad/

 

If Kylie's tweet is directed back at him, then all that tweet did is now make his sister dislike and have issues with him instead of coming together he's helping tear apart and force Kylie to not want people like him in her life. I doubt children at war is what Bruce needs on his plate now.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Artsda

[MarysWetBar]

I kind of doubt Kylie wanted Burt and the other Jenner kids in her life anyway. They can't do anything for her. She's rather Kardashian through and through..even if her last name is Jenner. But agree totally that this is the last thing Bruce wants to be dealing with. Spats between his kids.

Edited April 27, 2015 by MarysWetBar

[ms.o]

I agree that this is the last thing Bruce needs and all these family comments can be all around attention seeking idiocracy. My intent with previous post was to say that IF that was the situation, then I could understand Burts anger. Not that it's right or ok, just me being social worky :)

I get so pissed at Facebook passive-aggressive crap with my family. I can't imagine being famous and dealing with this shit in media. I think Bruce is brave, but I do hate the drama for him being played out like this

Edited April 27, 2015 by ms.o

[maraleia]

I am fine with Bruce deciding to be a woman. But truth be told, if my son came to me and told me he was changing his gender I would be very upset- I would be like Cher, wondering where her daughter went.

I am happy for Bruce and happy I do not have to deal with it.

I totally understand why it might be hard for you if your kid told you he or she was transgender. Everyone's journey is different.

 

Just an FYI though that per GLAAD's trans 101 resource guide quoted below one doesn't decide to become the other gender. It's something that is always with the person from birth as Jenner noted in his interview. Babies just can't verbalize it. I hope this helps. Thanks!

 

 

Gender identity is someone's internal, personal sense of being a man or a woman (or as someone outside of that gender binary). For transgender people, the sex they were assigned at birth and their own internal gender identity do not match.

[iwasish]

I kind of doubt Kylie wanted Burt and the other Jenner kids in her life anyway. They can't do anything for her. She's rather Kardashian through and through..even if her last name is Jenner. But agree totally that this is the last thing Bruce wants to be dealing with. Spats between his kids.

The kids have been spatting forever. There's no love lost there. Right now they all want to look good in the press. 

[ByTor]

Just an FYI though that per GLAAD's trans 101 resource guide quoted below one doesn't decide to become the other gender.

Not to get too of topic, and sorry if it sounds like I'm being nitpicky, but I think GLAAD is playing with words.  They may identify as the other gender, but the decision lies in changing physical appearance to match their identity.  In other words, one does not CHOOSE identity, it is what it is, but one can choose what he/she wishes to look like.

Edited April 27, 2015 by ByTor

[Timetoread]

I think Bruce Jenner is one of the most self-absorbed people I have ever seen in my life.  He spent his entire life thinking only of himself and if something better or more interesting came along, he followed that and left everything - including his own children - behind.  I don't give him points because he found an interest in parenting with his last two kids, while he neglected the previous four.  I am glad his older kids have forgiven him FOR THEIR SAKES so that they don't ruin their whole lives being upset by his actions. 

 

As for the transitioning.  I don't know how I feel about it.  It's not something I know a lot about.  I do understand that there are a lot of young people who do not feel comfortable in their own skin and I find that troubling.  I also abhor people who commit violence and direct hatred at other people for ANY reason - we don't have any right to victimize somebody else because we disagree with the choices they make in life.  I do kind of side-eye it a bit though -as though all there is to being a woman is clothes and makeup.  There is a lot more to this female body than that.  I am a woman in a dress or in pants or naked. My long hair and daintiness don't make me a woman.  My boobs don't make me a woman, the reason I have them in the first place is what does.  I just feel that while I get that they struggle with self identity,  I don't think he or any original male, can transition into a woman - they can simply buy woman parts and play dress up.

 

I've never liked Bruce the man, but it will be good if this extreme measure at this point in his life brings him peace - although I don't much care if it doesn't.  However if this move makes life easier on some of the other kids and adults who go through this and brings them protection and a deeper acceptance of self whether they go all the way or not, then I guess I have no choice but to support it - even if I don't totally understand it.  That said, I'd rather call a soldier a hero than a celebrity who has never sacrificed himself for anybody in his entire life.

[Shangrilala]

As for the transitioning.  I don't know how I feel about it.  It's not something I know a lot about.  I do understand that there are a lot of young people who do not feel comfortable in their own skin and I find that troubling.  I also abhor people who commit violence and direct hatred at other people for ANY reason - we don't have any right to victimize somebody else because we disagree with the choices they make in life.  I do kind of side-eye it a bit though -as though all there is to being a woman is clothes and makeup.  There is a lot more to this female body than that.  I am a woman in a dress or in pants or naked. My long hair and daintiness don't make me a woman.  My boobs don't make me a woman, the reason I have them in the first place is what does.  I just feel that while I get that they struggle with self identity,  I don't think he or any original male, can transition into a woman - they can simply buy woman parts and play dress up.

 

 

 

You can take your argument and logic and reverse the roles.  Just because Bruce has the male anatomy, does that automatically define him as a male?  I think Bruce actually did a decent job of addressing that.  From what I understood, from his perspective he has always been a woman, but had a male anatomy so had to live the life of a man.  However, his heart and his "soul" was female.  His explanation to his kids, that she's always been there, she's not new, because "she's me" (or some such thing) also clarifies this a little bit.  

 

This is actually a bit of an eye-opener for me.  I always assumed that when somebody transitioned, it meant that they literally changed from Man to woman or vice versa.   They became a new person.  I didn't ever view it that they were always that person just stuck in the wrong body.

[Timetoread]

From what I understood, from his perspective he has always been a woman, but had a male anatomy so had to live the life of a man.  However, his heart and his "soul" was female.

 

I hear you, but it is not our heart and soul that determines our gender, it is very specifically our anatomy.  Bruce's wondering and imagining couldn't be based on physical facts.  The desire to wear a dress is not the definition of being female.  Having ovaries and a vagina that bleeds, accepts male parts, grows humans and expels them and breasts that produce food - that's being a female.   The physical pain that accompanies all of that - that's being a female.  Playing dress up - that's being feminine, but it does not make one a female.

 

I guess my point is that I truly understand psychological dismorphism but one cannot EVER be what one is not.  Bruce may be an effeminate man, but he will NEVER be a woman.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Timetoread

[OnceSane]

I hear you, but it is not our heart and soul that determines our gender, it is very specifically our anatomy.  Bruce's wondering and imagining couldn't be based on physical facts.  The desire to wear a dress is not the definition of being female.  Having ovaries and a vagina that bleeds, accepts male parts, grows humans and expels them and breasts that produce food - that's being a female.   The physical pain that accompanies all of that - that's being a female.  Playing dress up - that's being feminine, but it does not make one a female.

 

I guess my point is that I truly understand psychological dismorphism but one cannot EVER be what one is not.  Bruce may be an effeminate man, but he will NEVER be a woman.

By your definition, are lesbians, women who don't/can't have children or cannot/do not breastfeed, and women born without ovaries not really women? It just seems like your definition of a woman (or female) is narrow.

[Timetoread]

By your definition, are lesbians, women who don't/can't have children or cannot/do not breastfeed, and women born without ovaries not really women? It just seems like your definition of a woman (or female) is narrow.

 

No.  I am a woman who doesn't, and it is looking more and more like can't, have children and thus won't be breastfeeding.  My mother when she was alive had a double mastectomy AND a hysterectomy.  But I, and she, and others like us are female by gender.  Lesbians are females.  Sexuality is not the same as gender.  We didn't decide to be female or emotionally FEEL female, we were born with lady parts - whether they got put to use or not.  Bruce and those born with male parts are MALES - that is their gender.   What I don't understand is where the insult in that is.  Gender is not a qualifier, it just is.  I understand that some people are born hermaphrodites or missing certain organs - that is another matter altogether and definitely cause for confusion.  I just find myself puzzled and a bit skeptical that a boob job and a pretty dress makes a man a woman - that our gender is defined by state of mind.  It seems more like a psychological aberration more than a physical thing.   I'm not judging and it has no bearing on my esteem for any person.   I'm just asking questions about an issue that I haven't yet been able to wrap my head around because I don't get it and it is the watercooler hot topic.

[OnceSane]

Thank you for clarifying. It can be a difficult subject to discuss and ask questions about. I do believe that some people were born in the body of the wrong gender; and these days it is becoming more accepted when they do something about it, though we do have a long way to go as a society.

[Darknight]

I think Bruce Jenner is one of the most self-absorbed people I have ever seen in my life. He spent his entire life thinking only of himself and if something better or more interesting came along, he followed that and left everything - including his own children - behind. I don't give him points because he found an interest in parenting with his last two kids, while he neglected the previous four. I am glad his older kids have forgiven him FOR THEIR SAKES so that they don't ruin their whole lives being upset by his actions.

As for the transitioning. I don't know how I feel about it. It's not something I know a lot about. I do understand that there are a lot of young people who do not feel comfortable in their own skin and I find that troubling. I also abhor people who commit violence and direct hatred at other people for ANY reason - we don't have any right to victimize somebody else because we disagree with the choices they make in life. I do kind of side-eye it a bit though -as though all there is to being a woman is clothes and makeup. There is a lot more to this female body than that. I am a woman in a dress or in pants or naked. My long hair and daintiness don't make me a woman. My boobs don't make me a woman, the reason I have them in the first place is what does. I just feel that while I get that they struggle with self identity, I don't think he or any original male, can transition into a woman - they can simply buy woman parts and play dress up.

I've never liked Bruce the man, but it will be good if this extreme measure at this point in his life brings him peace - although I don't much care if it doesn't. However if this move makes life easier on some of the other kids and adults who go through this and brings them protection and a deeper acceptance of self whether they go all the way or not, then I guess I have no choice but to support it - even if I don't totally understand it. That said, I'd rather call a soldier a hero than a celebrity who has never sacrificed himself for anybody in his entire life.

Sounds just like Kris. I can't only put the blame on Bruce for not raising his kids. Kris is more of a friend and money maker than a mother.

[wrestlesflamingos]

This is insane, how can they get away with this?

They get away with it a few ways - they earn enough money from clicks before the story is debunked, the target declines to pursue legal remedies, and the lack of assets of these tabloids.

One of the ways we can stop it is to not post the links and generate more clicks. It's the tiniest step but its the power we have.

[wrestlesflamingos]

No.  I am a woman who doesn't, and it is looking more and more like can't, have children and thus won't be breastfeeding.  My mother when she was alive had a double mastectomy AND a hysterectomy.  But I, and she, and others like us are female by gender.  Lesbians are females.  Sexuality is not the same as gender.  We didn't decide to be female or emotionally FEEL female, we were born with lady parts - whether they got put to use or not.  Bruce and those born with male parts are MALES - that is their gender.   What I don't understand is where the insult in that is.  Gender is not a qualifier, it just is.  I understand that some people are born hermaphrodites or missing certain organs - that is another matter altogether and definitely cause for confusion.  I just find myself puzzled and a bit skeptical that a boob job and a pretty dress makes a man a woman - that our gender is defined by state of mind.  It seems more like a psychological aberration more than a physical thing.   I'm not judging and it has no bearing on my esteem for any person.   I'm just asking questions about an issue that I haven't yet been able to wrap my head around because I don't get it and it is the watercooler hot topic.

I didn't narrow down the post in the interest of sensitivity to the ongoing discussion. I'd like to throw a few points out there about human anatomy and genes:

1. Almost every human has some amount of chimera in the genetic code. These are slices of DNA that are different from our known physical characteristics. Here's more about chimera:

Soft Article: http://io9.com/5911357/theres-a-good-chance-youre-a-human-chimera

Hard Science: http://www.academia.edu/202539/Which_Half_Is_Mommy_Tetragametic_Chimerism_and_Trans-Subjectivity

What this means is that a woman, someone who is born with a vagina, bleeds, has ovaries can be more genetically male than female. Each woman reading this probably has a Y chromosome somewhere in their body in an active cell that creates copies.

It also means that the person born with a bleeding vagina, as described above, will test genetically as male. This is very rare but happens. DNA/RNA replication is not perfect, mutations occur on almost every branch of the genetic code. Some of those mutations present as physical features.

2. Empathizing with someone transgender is very difficult because cis people do not have the same kind of inner and outer conflict that trans people do. I'm cis, I've always felt 100% female. I cannot understand feeling otherwise. It's like trying to explain a foggy day to a blind person. They may feel the humidity, or even conceptualize the idea, but it will never be close to the experience of fog.

3. Grieving change is a very human thing. Cher raised her son unknowingly as a girl. However, she didn't lose her daughter, she never actually had a daughter. That kind of cognitive dissonance is very difficult to work through.

4. As little as 10 years ago, it was popular to believe being gay was a choice. We've learned from genetic research and behavior observation of animals that same sex pairings are quite common and genetically motivated. While we don't fully understand the trans person today, we probably will in the future.

5. The amount of psychological screening to qualify for surgery or hormone therapy is very intense. I find it very hard to believe that anyone would go through the very long ordeal of seeking out help for the issue, convincing educated professionals trained to diagnose this issue, just to wear feminine clothes. To me, it seems as difficult as a very thin person trying to get bariatric surgery.

Edited April 28, 2015 by wrestlesflamingos
removed srs

[Artsda]

Interesting. 

 

Brody, Brandon, Burt and Kim want Bruce to not rush a reality show.

http://www.tmz.com/2015/04/27/bruce-jenner-reality-tv-kim-kardashian-docuseries-transgender-diane-sawyer/

 

In a truly weird turn, Bruce Jenner's sons, along with Kim Kardashian, are warning him to slow down on revealing too much of his journey on reality TV.

Sources connected with Bruce's brood tell us, Kim and the boys think Bruce was spectacular on the Diane Sawyer special and won over millions of people in the process.

They say they're worried Bruce's upcoming docuseries might "de-class" what he's accomplished. We're told they also urged Bruce not to do other interviews and finish the process in private.

We're told some of the kids have gone to their dad to express their concern, but the ship has sailed. Bruce believes the docuseries will educate people and create empathy, so he's committed.

We're also told Bruce's kids won't appear on his show.

[iwasish]

Interesting.  Brody, Brandon, Burt and Kim want Bruce to not rush a reality show.http://www.tmz.com/2015/04/27/bruce-jenner-reality-tv-kim-kardashian-docuseries-transgender-diane-sawyer/

I get the boys concern. But Kim... She doesn't want the competition and I still think she's not really on board with his journey, she's not deep enough to understand it despite Kanye's sweet little words of wisdom. I think she looks at Bruce's situation with the same disgust she looks at her fat brother.

[Artsda]

I don't know about that. Kim herself more than anyone doesn't need competition from a 6 episode short series. She seems damned in this case either way If she chose to appear on it or if she tries to get Bruce to slow down on it. 

 

She knows PR and press and she could see all the good Bruce did and wants him to go with that instead of over saturating, something she knows a lot about. I do think she loves Bruce and knows him more than his biological kids.

 

Speaking of which, Burt's tweet has now been deleted. Wonder who made him do that,  I'm guessing Bruce. Too late if Burt's already in-fighting with Kylie and if she's done with him.

 

Bruce Jenner threatens to sue over dress photos

http://pagesix.com/2015/04/27/bruce-jenner-threatens-to-sue-over-dress-photos/

 

 

 

A spokesman for Jenner, 65, told Page Six, “Both Daily News and CNN pulled the photos sold to them by X17 once they found out they were illegally obtained. The agency no longer is selling those photos [since] they confirmed they were shot illegally.”
Under California law, photographers can be found liable for invasion of privacy for using telephoto lenses to capture images of people engaged in “personal or familial activity.”

Jenner’s attorney Marty Singer said, “The photos were clearly unlawfully taken from a very long distance using an enhancement device. Bruce Jenner is going to enforce his right to privacy.”

 

Bruce's attorney is still the family (non-divorce) one. 

Edited April 28, 2015 by Artsda

[iwasish]

I don't know about that. Kim herself more than anyone doesn't need competition from a 6 episode short series. She seems damned in this case either way If she chose to appear on it or if she tries to get Bruce to slow down on it. 

 

She knows PR and press and she could see all the good Bruce did and wants him to go with that instead of over saturating, something she knows a lot about. I do think she loves Bruce and knows him more than his biological kids.

 

Speaking of which, Burt's tweet has now been deleted. Wonder who made him do that,  I'm guessing Bruce. Too late if Burt's already in-fighting with Kylie and if she's done with him.

 

Bruce Jenner threatens to sue over dress photos

http://pagesix.com/2015/04/27/bruce-jenner-threatens-to-sue-over-dress-photos/

 

 

Bruce's attorney is still the family (non-divorce) one.

I think competition is the wrong word. I think her concern is that Bruce's show ( if it truly is done in a serious thoughtful manner) will emphasis the shallow, phoniness of the Kardashians shows and the family itself. She can't compete with real ness. Cause there's nothing real about her, from her fake tits to her fake ass to her fake fertility issues. She's happy to support Bruce cause it makes her look good, but she wants him to go away now.

[Joe Jitsu913]

I think competition is the wrong word. I think her concern is that Bruce's show ( if it truly is done in a serious thoughtful manner) will emphasis the shallow, phoniness of the Kardashians shows and the family itself. She can't compete with real ness. Cause there's nothing real about her, from her fake tits to her fake ass to her fake fertility issues. She's happy to support Bruce cause it makes her look good, but she wants him to go away now.

I also think Kim (and the rest of the klan ) are paranoid about something. Paranoid that Bruce will become more famous or that he may reveal something that they don't want the public to know. They're playing nice for now, but I wonder if Bruce has something on Kris or Kim that they don't want anyone to know...perhaps the truth about Khloe's biological father?

[choclatechip45]

I think Brandon, Brody and Kim are all pr savy in their own ways and realize this E show is a bad idea. It was brought up at work and everyone thought the E show was going to ruin the goodwill Bruce gained by doing the Diane Sawyer interview.

[RealityCowgirl]

E!'s involvement should be a major red flag. A GLAAD rep said on CNN that one of its leadership team would consult on the project, so maybe it won't be a complete train wreck. But, yeah, its involvement is pretty scary. Maybe they'll surprise us?

ETA second "its" = E! Because E! =\= GLAAD in the credibility department here. Or, probably, anywhere. E! sucks.

Edited April 29, 2015 by RealityCowgirl

[xls]

I hear you, but it is not our heart and soul that determines our gender, it is very specifically our anatomy.  Bruce's wondering and imagining couldn't be based on physical facts.  The desire to wear a dress is not the definition of being female.  Having ovaries and a vagina that bleeds, accepts male parts, grows humans and expels them and breasts that produce food - that's being a female.   The physical pain that accompanies all of that - that's being a female.  Playing dress up - that's being feminine, but it does not make one a female.

 

I guess my point is that I truly understand psychological dismorphism but one cannot EVER be what one is not.  Bruce may be an effeminate man, but he will NEVER be a woman.

ITA! i  don't care what anyone does, its their business, but no amount of surgery can change that fact you were born a man or woman I will call you a woman if you want, you can use the same public restroom as me, won't bother me a bit, but the pregnant man was not BORN a man so it doesn't count as a pregnant man. Sorry if that's an unpopular OP.

[iwasish]

I think Brandon, Brody and Kim are all pr savy in their own ways and realize this E show is a bad idea. It was brought up at work and everyone thought the E show was going to ruin the goodwill Bruce gained by doing the Diane Sawyer interview.

Watching Bruce try to learn to golf with boobs isn't what I had in mind. If his show is going to be going on shopping  sprees with his daughters and getting  mani/pedis and taking selfies like one of the girls, I wont be watching, nor taking his journey seriously.

 

Why did he go the implant route, if just taking female hormones in the past developed his chest? Perhaps he wanted quicker results?

[howmanywords]

What I had read yesterday about the upcoming special was that it would be more serious than anything but they made sure to include some things that would add humor to it and that's when the subject how he's managing to golf with new boobs was brought up.

[What In The]

Bruce, no matter what he might try to say, is NOT a woman. He was born a male and still is. He can wear dresses, skirts, heels, or whatever he wants but he will mever be a woman.

[iwasish]

What I had read yesterday about the upcoming special was that it would be more serious than anything but they made sure to include some things that would add humor to it and that's when the subject how he's managing to golf with new boobs was brought up.

He's golfing already? Didn't he just get the implants with in the last couple months? Not having them, I don't know the time frame for various physical activities to be allowed.

[OnceSane]

My Google Fu says 6-8 weeks before strenuous exercise, so it might be okay.

[DangerousMinds]

Sex and gender are two separate things.

[Artsda]

Bruce is on the new People cover - http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2015/news/150511/bruce-jenner-0-768.jpg

 

And of course thanks to Burt they ran with his tweet. Article - http://www.people.com/article/bruce-jenner-transition-kardashian-jenner-family-divide?xid=socialflow_twitter_peoplemag

 

Good that People pointed out everyone showed support, except for one family member that posted resentment. 

 

 

 

Following the broadcast of his 20/20 interview with Diane Sawyer in which he revealed his intent to transition, every one of his family members – including Kris – extended their support to Bruce, be it by Tweet, Instagram or Today show interview.

However, one member of the family appeared to resent the sudden influx of support. "Having a hard time not putting a few people on blast who were not supporters beforehand, but want to act like they were all along," Bruce's son Burt Jenner, 36, wrote in a now deleted Tweet that appeared to be directed squarely at the Kardashians.

[nexxie]

Who could blame Burt for wanting to put Kris "on blast" if she married Bruce knowing he was transitioning, and then talked him out of it - and also played a part in keeping him away from his older children? Looks like she's only on board now to save face. I also think of how she was seen on the show treating Bruce like a second class citizen - and say, "Blast away, Burt!"

[xls]

So if he's always had the soul of a woman all his life and claims he's straight, why has he only dated and marry women? Doesn't that make him a lesbian? Or was he straight in his male years and he'll be straight in his female years, too?

 If he's straight after reassignment then he will have to date men.

[Watermelon]

So if he's always had the soul of a woman all his life and claims he's straight, why has he only dated and marry women? Doesn't that make him a lesbian? Or was he straight in his male years and he'll be straight in his female years, too?

 If he's straight after reassignment then he will have to date men.

You're getting lost in semantics. In his interview he said he's still solely attracted to women. Maybe when he fully transitions he'll call himself a lesbian.

[Artsda]

Who could blame Burt for wanting to put Kris "on blast" if she married Bruce knowing he was transitioning, and then talked him out of it - and also played a part in keeping him away from his older children? Looks like she's only on board now to save face. I also think of how she was seen on the show treating Bruce like a second class citizen - and say, "Blast away, Burt!"

 

Burt's an adult responsible for his own actions, and his tweet (which he had to delete either because he realized what he did or because someone made him) put a dark cloud on a positive moment for his dad where everyone was positive over him and he was getting accolades. Burt gave People and the billion other tabloids this resentment and trashy spin when Bruce had come out of the interview great.  It doesn't matter who is on board or how long they have been, what matters is they support him now. It's also not even just Kris his tweet put a spin on but "people" multiple. Which ended up with Kylie being a supposed "people" target.

 

Is there a set time for how long someone should take to get on board with this? Especially say a teenager like Kylie?  Burt's dictating that people who weren't on board, can't later support? People can't take time to take in the information and later come around. 

 

Burt's tweet was selfish and about him, not about his father or caring about his family. 

 

I think Bruce's role and relationship with the 10 kids are so different that all of them reacting differently is understandably. The 4 older bio kids he didn't raise, he wasn't really a part of their lives compared to someone like Kylie or Khloe or Rob. They lived with him almost all of their lives, They grew up with him as their father and it's a different relationship where it could be harder for them to come on board ASAP compared to others like Burt. Who have a "hey big guy" friend type relationship as opposed to a parental one.

 

Also Kris isn't to blame for Bruce not seeing his children. That's on Bruce, Bruce found the time to go to all the 5 girls + Rob's sports events, carpool, cheerleading, graduations and like Brandon said he didn't go to theirs. Brandon didn't say what kind of woman keeps a dad from their graduation, he said what kind of dad doesn't go to their kids graduation. Bruce not seeing the bio-4 for years? On Bruce, Kris is no saint, and is  responsible for a lot, but Bruce is a big boy who if he wanted to be in his older kids lives he could have. It's not all on evil Kris who wouldn't let Bruce out to see his kids.  I think  Brandon and Brody especially (since all the Bruce resentment Brody had) knows and understands it's a lot on Bruce. Heck Bruce and Robert Sr. had a great co-parenting relationship, yet Bruce couldn't or wouldn't speak to his ex's to really be apart of his kids lives for years. It could be due to what Bruce's ex-wives knew about him, but what ever the reason those are choices Bruce made.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Artsda

[choclatechip45]

Yeah I would except Burt's tweet from a teenager not a grown adult.

[GaT]

Yeah I would except Burt's tweet from a teenager not a grown adult.

If Blac Chyna & Kylie can fight on Twitter, why not Burt?

[choclatechip45]

If Blac Chyna & Kylie can fight on Twitter, why not Burt?

Honestly I thought Blac Chyna fighting with a 17 year old was pathetic. I'm not a Kylie fan and I don't like using age as an excuse but I did a lot of stupid stuff when I was her age so I don't judge Kylie that harshly. Burt can do whatever he wants obviously, but he's making himself look bad.

Edited May 1, 2015 by choclatechip45

[iwasish]

To be fair to Burt, we don't know exactly what Kylies issues with Bruce were or if they still exist or how they manifested themselves towards Bruce. For all we know she only posted words of support because she felt pressured to by other family members to present a united front, a common theme with in this family, not because she truly supports him. Burt may be privy to lots of stuff we are not. Clearly he loves his dad, he was angry, he acted hastily perhaps. He then deleted the tweet. It's a tough emotional time for all of them and they have a lot of other family drama and baggage that they've dragged around due to poor choices by the adults in their lives. If Kylie deserves a pass for some of her stupid stuff, I'll give Burt the courtesy of a heat of the moment pass too.

If anything, the whole family should learn to stay the fuck off social media. For every nice tweet of support there will be plenty of nasty criticisms. Why torture yourself?

Edited May 1, 2015 by iwasish

[choclatechip45]

 

To be fair to Burt, we don't know exactly what Kylies issues with Bruce were or if they still exist or how they manifested themselves towards Bruce. For all we know she only posted words of support because she felt pressured to by other family members to present a united front, a common theme with in this family, not because she truly supports him. Burt may be privy to lots of stuff we are not. Clearly he loves his dad, he was angry, he acted hastily perhaps. He then deleted the tweet. It's a tough emotional time for all of them and they have a lot of other family drama and baggage that they've dragged around due to poor choices by the adults in their lives. If Kylie deserves a pass for some of her stupid stuff, I'll give Burt the courtesy of a heat of the moment pass too.

That is true none of us know how long Burt and his sister have known about Bruce or their mom told them and they have had some time to adjust to the news. Just like we don't know Kylie and  Kendall found out. Kris seems like the type to ignore any signs I think what Bruce said about Kim's comment feeling like she couldn't really talk about seeing Bruce in a dress really speaks volumes how that household handled issues.  If Burt found out a few years ago while Kylie found a year ago its unfair to compare the two in my opinion.

[Artsda]

 

To be fair to Burt, we don't know exactly what Kylies issues with Bruce were or if they still exist or how they manifested themselves towards Bruce. For all we know she only posted words of support because she felt pressured to by other family members to present a united front, a common theme with in this family, not because she truly supports him. Burt may be privy

 

Does it really matter though? She was there with Bruce to support and to watch the special, she could have skipped it. She out right said in her tweet it's been hard for her. She's a teenage girl who lives like an adult, who  grew up with cameras all around her and who Bruce raised everyday of her life. I can't imagine how confusing it would be under normal circumstances at her age, much less having to live it out so publicly. If she didn't handle it well, I can't fault her for that.

 

It's not up to Burt to attack his teenage sister or put her on blast publicly on twitter. That just makes him look worse (if it's directed at her). 

 

He shouldn't have said anything at all or if he has an issue with Kylie, take it up with Kylie in private and act like a big brother in this type of situation. If that's how he behaves I wouldn't blame Kendall and Kylie to want nothing to do with Burt as a sibling/brother (if Kylie's response back is directed at him).

 

It always looked like they're closer to Rob/Scott and with comments like Burt's, it's not really a stretch as to why they'd be estranged. 

[iwasish]

That is true none of us know how long Burt and his sister have known about Bruce or their mom told them and they have had some time to adjust to the news. Just like we don't know Kylie and Kendall found out. Kris seems like the type to ignore any signs I think what Bruce said about Kim's comment feeling like she couldn't really talk about seeing Bruce in a dress really speaks volumes how that household handled issues. If Burt found out a few years ago while Kylie found a year ago its unfair to compare the two in my opinion.

Burt may also feel that Kylie and Kendall got Bruce's undivided and uninterrupted attention and devotion for the bulk of their lives, he and his sister and other brothers got short shrift. His thinking might be if he and Casey, Brandon and Brody, despite Bruce's neglect, have embraced and supported him, then Kylie, having gotten so much more of Bruce, should have been unquestionably in his corner.

[DangerousMinds]

So if he's always had the soul of a woman all his life and claims he's straight, why has he only dated and marry women? Doesn't that make him a lesbian? Or was he straight in his male years and he'll be straight in his female years, too?

 If he's straight after reassignment then he will have to date men.

Or bisexual, pansexual, intersexual. lots of categories! I think he explained that he isn't feeling "sexual" at all right now, so it is just all semantics.

[Artsda]

 

Burt may also feel that Kylie and Kendall got Bruce's undivided and uninterrupted attention and devotion for the bulk of their lives, he and his sister and other brothers got short shrift. His thinking might be if he and Casey, Brandon and Brody, despite Bruce's neglect, have embraced and supported him, then Kylie, having gotten so much more of Bruce, should have been unquestionably in his corner.

 

Burt can think that, but it could also be the complete opposite way. Where as it's so much harder to deal with and come to terms with because Bruce was there undivided and for them for their entire lives. They know him more, they lived with him, they had him as "daddy" at their school events and picking them up at school everyday. It might be a lot easier for someone like Burt and his sister since Bruce wasn't around, they don't have 25 years of that parental figure like Khloe does or 17 years like Kylie does. Burt's also not a teenager going through this news and transition about her dad in the public eye.

 

There's no set or proper way to really to handle news like this. Especially if you're a teenager and figuring this out with your dad.

[Fostersmom]

I know sentiment is Burt was talking about Kris or Kylie, but I assumed it was Kim he was talking about. Kim has been the judge and jury of that entire family for years now, see her poor brother Rob, or Khloe, Kourtney, and Scott. She's said plenty of shit about Bruce on TV and god only knows what she's said to his face or to others that we haven't heard about. But now she's giving him fashion tips and is all on board? Doubtful.