S02.E01: It's Time To Move On

[l star]

It also doesn't account for the busted door upstairs or how Sam went over the railing. With all five of them there in Sam's house when the law office wasn't open and Annalise was gone, plus three different instances of violence, I don't think there's any way they could have argued self-defense. At some point someone would say why didn't you all just leave? Which would then move into 'uh, well, we didn't want to leave without the information we were trying to steal...' and they still end up murderers.

 

If Laurel's father is some cartel or crime big bad guy that would actually explain how cold and calculating she can be. It wasn't just taking Mikayla's engagement ring that night; Laurel also suggested that they let Asher in so that he would contaminate the crime scene. She had no qualms about 'suggesting' Frank kill Rebecca and when she disappeared, that's what she assumed happened. That level of cold calculation, even in the heat of the crime, is scary.

 

It's odd how this ep changed my feelings on some characters. Mikayla was kind of a drip last season; this ep I loved her. Wes was boring; now he's infuriating. Asher was the OTT personality behind any humor; now he's basically scared wallpaper who blows off sex with his girlfriend. Connor is still a s*** but I found him more endearing this ep than most of last season. Frank was the inscrutable muscle last season; now he's jittery and jumping at shadows. Bonnie went from the unstable mouse with a bit of a temper to lock your doors psycho. Annalise became desperate in a way that I don't remember from last season. Maybe it's just because she was face-to-face with Eve, forced to see that her kids were breaking down on her and confronted with Bonnie's crazy, but her armor was a less natural fit this year. Outside of Frank and Asher, none of the shifts seemed OOC and I'm willing to wait and see on those two. Given the breakneck speed of the plot, it makes me happy to still recognize changes in the characters too. 

 

I have two major questions- what will Frank do when he finds out it was Bonnie? While they hardly seem like friends, several times last season they seemed to have a pretty solid bond. Though sometimes that seemed like it was because he saw her as the little girl his mom told him he had to watch out for rather than actual affection between them. Second, how long until Annalise has to choose between Wes and Bonnie? Whatever her freaky thing is for Wes, she's got to know that Bonnie will go apeshit on her if she's not careful. Bonnie said she knew too much about Frank for him to screw her over so there's no telling how much dirt she has on Annalise.

 

And yes, I think eventually Annalise and Wes is going to happen and I dread every second of it, buildup included. I do wonder what it is that she'll want from him when she shows up teary eyed at his door to bang him. Whatever it is, hopefully he'll have recognized by now that those teary eyes are a guaranteed sign that your life is about to blow all to hell. Speaking of those teary eyes, do the 5 know that Nate was Annalise's boyfriend? And I wonder how long it will be before they figure out that Eve is her former/current...

 

Okay wild spec time- what if Bonnie had used a plastic bag to kill someone before? She was so calm, and unhurried like she knew what to do and how it would all go. Maybe for whatever reason, Annalise had to keep her close so she tried belittling and breaking her down into submission. Until of course, the crazy broke to the surface once again. People telling her she wasn't a good person and didn't deserve a normal life would be an expected reaction to having smothered someone with a plastic bag. Though again, how could she pass the bar with murder in her history?

Edited September 26, 2015 by l star

[secnarf]

It also doesn't account for the busted door upstairs or how Sam went over the railing. With all five of them there in Sam's house when the law office wasn't open and Annalise was gone, plus three different instances of violence, I don't think there's any way they could have argued self-defense. At some point someone would say why didn't you all just leave? Which would then move into 'uh, well, we didn't want to leave without the information we were trying to steal...' and they still end up murderers.

 

If Laurel's father is some cartel or crime big bad guy that would actually explain how cold and calculating she can be. It wasn't just taking Mikayla's engagement ring that night; Laurel also suggested that they let Asher in so that he would contaminate the crime scene. She had no qualms about 'suggesting' Frank kill Rebecca and when she disappeared, that's what she assumed happened. That level of cold calculation, even in the heat of the crime, is scary.

 

...

 

And yes, I think eventually Annalise and Wes is going to happen and I dread every second of it, buildup included. I do wonder what it is that she'll want from him when she shows up teary eyed at his door to bang him. Whatever it is, hopefully he'll have recognized by now that those teary eyes are a guaranteed sign that your life is about to blow all to hell. Speaking of those teary eyes, do the 5 know that Nate was Annalise's boyfriend? And I wonder how long it will be before they figure out that Eve is her former/current...

 

Okay wild spec time- what if Bonnie had used a plastic bag to kill someone before? She was so calm, and unhurried like she knew what to do and how it would all go. Maybe for whatever reason, Annalise had to keep her close so she tried belittling and breaking her down into submission. Until of course, the crazy broke to the surface once again. People telling her she wasn't a good person and didn't deserve a normal life would be an expected reaction to having smothered someone with a plastic bag. Though again, how could she pass the bar with murder in her history?

They would have had to make up a good story, but if they had actually tried they could have made it work. AK even would have backed them up - even if they didn't know it at the time, they certainly could have cooked something up when Wes went back and they made their plan. Regardless, I'm sure Laurel could have come up with something plausible :P

I find her an absolutely fascinating character because of how cold she is. I really want to learn more about her history.

I am also not liking the AK/Wes build up. It's just creepy. The whole scene with them dancing together at the club was cringe-worthy.

At the very least though, Wes knows about AK and Nate - remember in the first episode he walked in on them together, and then later on was introduced to Sam as her husband?

 

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Bonnie had killed someone before. I suspect she did it as a teenager and AK was her defense lawyer, maybe got her juvie with a sealed record or something similar (or got her off altogether), and now Bonnie is very loyal to her because of that.

[FozzyBear]

They would have had to make up a good story, but if they had actually tried they could have made it work. AK even would have backed them up - even if they didn't know it at the time, they certainly could have cooked something up when Wes went back and they made their plan. Regardless, I'm sure Laurel could have come up with something plausible :P

I find her an absolutely fascinating character because of how cold she is. I really want to learn more about her history.

I am also not liking the AK/Wes build up. It's just creepy. The whole scene with them dancing together at the club was cringe-worthy.

At the very least though, Wes knows about AK and Nate - remember in the first episode he walked in on them together, and then later on was introduced to Sam as her husband?

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Bonnie had killed someone before. I suspect she did it as a teenager and AK was her defense lawyer, maybe got her juvie with a sealed record or something similar (or got her off altogether), and now Bonnie is very loyal to her because of that.

I could see that about Bonnie. It was a bit of a stretch for AK to jump to her for no reason, unless she knew Bonnie was capable of something like that. It might also explain their weird love/hate relationship. Although AK seems to have a love/hate relationship with everyone...

I think they might have been able to sell an accident. They all actually did have perfectly logical reasons to be there. The students work there and it's R's lawyers office. They could have been there working late when Sam came home. He's drunk, confesses to the affair (maybe the murder), threatens R if she doesn't cover for him, they fight, the students try to get her away from him. AK would have covered, but they didn't know that and were scared and in shock. I'm ok with them not telling as a plot line, but I think they could have.

[ShadowSixx]

Here is what happened to Sam before Wes delivered the fatal blow

 

They were all wrong, I know Michaela was there to wait for Annie which Sam let her in the house after being reluctant to do so at first. Then the rest of them showed up and Rebecca was there to steal Sam's property which Sam wanted to get back so tackled Rebecca to the floor. Michaela didn't do anything until Sam came running after Laurel and IDK if Michaela meant to dodge out of the way or out of fear pushed Sam over the railing.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Bye Rebecca! There Are New Freaks In Town On How To Get Away With Murder!
Annalise has at least three new people to manipulate this year!

[Pollock]

Not buying the Connor/Oliver relationship mostly because I can't believe that a sexy manwhore like Connor would be attracted to a nerd type (sorry for the superficiality, but hey). 

We live in a world where this is happening.

Anything is possible. [cue Disney music]

I find Oliver very attractive: intelligent and funny always makes me horny.

 

(ETA : I'm not saying that Christina Hendricks is a whore, just to be clear, but that sexy and nerdy mesh just fine)

Edited September 26, 2015 by Pollock

[ShadowSixx]

Exactly, I don't see anything wrong with the way Oliver looks for Connor not to be attracted to him. Connor really doesn't have a set preference on who he sleeps with judging from season 1, he just sees something in Oliver that he really likes over the other guys he's been with.

 

I'm pretty sure Oliver isn't going to be okay with the Sam death thing if it ever comes to light that they buried the body and covered up murder and Connor lying to him about being a drug addict.

Edited September 26, 2015 by ShadowSixx

[lorikauai]

I totally forgot that Frank killed Lila. I was grateful for the flashback. Bonnie killing Rebecca was believable. She's been shown to be damaged and desperate to please Annelise.

Annelise is insanely manipulative. I feel that getting Nate acquitted is more about the feeling of power she gets from controlling the situation than it is about justice.

I felt like there wasn't enough Asher in this episode. I'm so much less interested in the rest of Annelise's team.

Edited September 26, 2015 by lorikauai

[lulee]

It seemed silly and heavy-handed for Laurel to personally deliver the thumb drive to the attorney. Then she and Bonnie sat in court practically twirling imaginary mustaches.

I got the vibe that brother fancies sister but not necessarily vice versa. Of course that doesn't mean she didn't kill/ help kill their parents. The show was making the brother look suspicious after he returned from a jog after the sunt's murder. But that makes me suspicious.

The only characters I'll rule out for shooting Annie are Wes and Frank. Wes because we saw him run from the scene, probably in pursuit of the killer, but why don't you try to save Annie, Wes? Frank because he wouldn't shoot her - too much distance. If Frank were to kill her, it would be in a rage.

Question: Did Michaela have Rebecca's phone and texted Eggs911 from it? Otherwise Eggs would have said "who is this?" But I don't think that was the reply (although I'm blanking on what it was)

[PrincessTT]

Question: Did Michaela have Rebecca's phone and texted Eggs911 from it? Otherwise Eggs would have said "who is this?" But I don't think that was the reply (although I'm blanking on what it was)

 

I think that Rebecca got hold of Michaela's phone and used it to send the Eggs911 text when she was being held at the house. 

That's why she said Eggs911, it was a way of identifying herself because she wasn't using her own phone, I think. 

[lulee]

I think that Rebecca got hold of Michaela's phone and used it to send the Eggs911 text when she was being held at the house.

That's why she said Eggs911, it was a way of identifying herself because she wasn't using her own phone, I think.

thanks - I forgot that

Still, you'd think Michaela wouldn't be so careless to have the phone popping out of her purse, especially asking Wes to watch the purse.

[darkestboy]

Loved it. That was just pure craziness of the best kind and it's nice to see that the show hasn't lost it's groove either.

 

I liked that they solved the Rebecca thing pretty fast and it certainly has made Bonnie a more darker and interesting character because of it.

 

The who shot Annalise story seems to be connected with the maybe murderous siblings. That should be interesting to see unfold as the season progresses though.

 

I didn't expect Eve and Annalise to be a former couple but it was a nice twist and I liked that Eve worked out that Nate had been framed pretty fast too.

 

Some great stuff with Connor/Oliver and Michaela/Laurel too. The Wes and Asher wasn't as great but still interesting enough.

 

Frank spying on the kids though 8/10

[skotnikov]

All of the certain during this episode I was somehow reminded of "Damages".  Basically it's the same premise (a manipulative attorney and her apprentice) and narrative technique (flashbacks and red herrings), only "Damages" wasn't as trashy and fun as HTGAWM.   

[sjohnson]

Hated Damages because seeing the villain win wasn't entertaining. I know that part of being a hero means being successful at the deed, i.e., winning. (Failure can be heroic, but that isn't the same as being the hero, is it?) The problem is there are a number of producers in Hollywood who hear "heroes are winners" as "winners are heroes," which isn't really the same thing at all. For me that ruined Damages and it's doing a number on this show too I think. When Elementary comes back, I'm not sure I'll care enough to catch up on demand.

[DollEyes]

 

The only characters I'll rule out for shooting Annie are Wes and Frank. Wes, because we saw him run from the scene, probably in pursuit of the killer, but why don't you try to save Annie, Wes? Frank, because he wouldn't shoot her-too much distance. If Frank were to kill Annie, it would be in a rage.

 

  Re the first question, Wes probably went after the shooter because Annalise told him to. As for Frank, I don't think that he's the shooter, either, because when he killed Lila,  he was cold and detached, so he doesn't seem like the type who commits crimes of passion.

Edited September 27, 2015 by DollEyes

[Joimiaroxeu]

So, Annalise's ex (Eve) is defending her other ex (Nate). Yeah - this won't end well.

Especially if they happen to start comparing notes. Eve knows the full score on Annalise but Nate doesn't.

 

I wish we had gotten another shot of Nate stripping.

Yes, please.

[Eolivet]

That was awesome. It struck me until the last scene -- and maybe even despite the last scene -- that Annalise and Wes may be related somehow. But because Annalise has never had a really healthy relationship with a man, she thinks the only way to win him over is to seduce him. Because I always thought she acted almost maternal toward him until that last scene. Their relationship is very strange, but very interesting. She has a soft spot for him, but I can't tell why. I could be totally off, but I wouldn't put it past this show.

 

I actually like that all the "adults" have their little pet students (Annalise with Wes, Frank with Laurel, Bonnie with Asher). I also like that they acknowledge they have their pets. I like it, because it's realistic -- working with a bunch of students, teachers are bound to have favorites. But the reason I'm thinking Annalise is going for something other than romance with Wes because the other two adults have romantic relationships with their pet students. It'd be odd if all three did.

 

I agree with others who thought Eggs 911 was the guy in the bar. Even if he's not Eggs 911, he's Chekov's Bar Guy, I think.

 

It's great to see the show hasn't lost a step from last season, in my eyes. Buckling up for another wild ride!

[dr pepper]

You know what they say: going bi immediately doubles your chances of making a manipulative desperation ploy.

[dr pepper]

I'm sensing that those siblings have something going on between them.

 

I felt it too. i was expecting them to start making out. i was yelling "don't do it!" at the screen.

[dr pepper]

So we know that Annalise won't really die at the end of the season because she's the star,

 

Unless Shonda wants more accolades.

[dr pepper]

I see Annalise continues her inappropriate relationship with Wes. I find that relationship fascinating. Creepy and a little disturbing but fascinating.

 

.

 

Me too. Except for the fascinating part. Did you note that scene where she has his head in her lap and works on his hair the way her mother did with her during the regression scene last season. Yikes!

[possibilities]

I suppose they could kill Annalise if Viola wants to end the show. They could have a limited number of years on her contract, and kill her off, having her appear only in flashbacks for the last cycle.

[dr pepper]

Bonnie said she protected Annalise like Annalise protected her, so I think that implies we'll be seeing flashbacks to whatever Annalise did for Bonnie back in the day.

 

My guess is it involved an abusive ex

[jhlipton]

I was surprised that Annalise is bisexual. However, i have no doubt that she slept with her again to get her to take Nate's case. 

 

At first it seemed like the "All college girls have a lesbian experience" trope, but it was much more manipulative for Anni.

 

I find it odd that all of them wanted to party with their college professor. 

 

Well, these "busy" law schools students are taking the Exact Same Class they took last time, so they obvs love spending time with Anni.

 

 

[Too bad they couldn't get The Band playing in the final scene: Someone "put the load in Anni!"  (Too soon?)]

[pennben]

Well, these "busy" law schools students are taking the Exact Same Class they took last time, so they obvs love spending time with Anni.

 

I assume that they are taking HTGAWM II, an advanced course, not the introductory course they took last year.

[starri]

I assume that they are taking HTGAWM II, an advanced course, not the introductory course they took last year.

Isn't it still their first year?  They'd just started their spring semester when all the drama about Sam's body being found happened, and according to the date, the class where Wes copped the attitude was ten days after Rebecca disappeared.

[truthaboutluv]

Isn't it still their first year?  They'd just started their spring semester when all the drama about Sam's body being found happened, and according to the date, the class where Wes copped the attitude was ten days after Rebecca disappeared.

 

Yeah you're right. All the drama of last season happened in the Fall semester and went into the new year. So theoretically they're on their Spring semester. Maybe Viola's class is a year long one and not just one semester. 

[wanderingstar]

Their relationship is very strange, but very interesting.

 

 

I love their relationship. It's one of my favorite things on the show.

[Eolivet]

I love their relationship. It's one of my favorite things on the show.

 

I had another thought about Annalise and Wes. If she sees him as troubled (in a similar way to how she was troubled when she met Sam), perhaps seducing him is the only way she knows how to "help" him -- as it was how Sam "helped" her. It would tie into the whole idea that she really has no closure or objectivity over Sam or has had a chance to process how unhealthy the relationship was. He was her therapist, and she loved him -- maybe she's trying to recreate that with Wes?

 

What is really interesting to me is that it seems all very one-sided: the maternal and the quasi-romantic feelings are all on Annalise's part. I haven't seen much from Wes to indicate he has any kind of personal feelings for Annalise whatsoever (filial or romantic). So, it could all be projection from Annalise on to Wes. It will be so interesting to what course their relationship of any kind takes (especially given the episode's ending).

[dirtypop90]

I had another thought about Annalise and Wes. If she sees him as troubled (in a similar way to how she was troubled when she met Sam), perhaps seducing him is the only way she knows how to "help" him -- as it was how Sam "helped" her. It would tie into the whole idea that she really has no closure or objectivity over Sam or has had a chance to process how unhealthy the relationship was. He was her therapist, and she loved him -- maybe she's trying to recreate that with Wes?

 

What is really interesting to me is that it seems all very one-sided: the maternal and the quasi-romantic feelings are all on Annalise's part. I haven't seen much from Wes to indicate he has any kind of personal feelings for Annalise whatsoever (filial or romantic). So, it could all be projection from Annalise on to Wes. It will be so interesting to what course their relationship of any kind takes (especially given the episode's ending).

 

yea it's really so hard for me to read because I get nothing from wes. But I don't know if it's supposed to be that way or Alfred's acting. I think he is adorable but he's so far out of viola's league acting wise. she does all of the heavy lifting in their scenes. I either get nothing from him or awkwardness. But it was the same way with wes and rebecca. We've been told repeatedly how much wes loves rebecca, and he's done a number of stupid things for her so it must be true, but I never truly felt anything from wes toward rebecca. Alfred and Katie's scenes were just as awkward, and I never truly felt any passion or even warmth from him in their scenes together, even when he was opening up to her about his mom or when she was comforting him after his nightmares. But maybe wes's character is supposed to be that way and it ties back to his childhood.

[jhlipton]

Yeah you're right. All the drama of last season happened in the Fall semester and went into the new year. So theoretically they're on their Spring semester. Maybe Viola's class is a year long one and not just one semester. 

 

That would work if she was teaching advanced concepts.  But "What to do when a family member is accused" isn't any different from what was taught last seaso... um, semester.  They just decided to go with it and not explain it, which makes it look dumb, in my opinion.

[represent]

 

What is really interesting to me is that it seems all very one-sided: the maternal and the quasi-romantic feelings are all on Annalise's part.

Based on what I've seen so far, I can't say these feelings toward Wes are even genuine. I was watching a recap of season one and it was narrated by the actress who played Rebecca and they have her calling the Keating-5  suckers and free labor. But yeah suckers, just more people, but in this case the "babies," who Annalise can manipulate. If we think about enough we could figure out why she picked each one of them cause we know she did her research and picked them specifically.  

 

Quite frankly, the only genuine moment I've seen from her was with her mother.

 

 

 

I find it odd that all of them wanted to party with their college professor.

I don't think they wanted to party with her. Based on the scene it looked like they didn't even know where they were going. They even asked where they were going and what is this....She called them and they came, that's it. Once they were there, in the club, they're not going to tell Annalise no. Clearly the club was full of young people, it looked like some kind of underground thing....so it wasn't like they were in a place full of "old" ladies like their professor. Therefore, they started dancing and trying to have good time.

Edited September 27, 2015 by represent

[DollEyes]

  My verdict (no pun intended): I loved it. Definitely the best TGIT premiere of the night. Grey's Anatomy & Scandal had some nice moments, but this premiere was consistently good. Most of that is due to brand-new, richly deserved and groundbreaking Emmy winner Viola David, who proved in this episode that her win wasn't a fluke, by a long shot. Just when it seems like Annalise couldn't get anymore suprising, she does, on several levels. For example, when Wes acted out in class, I thought that Annalise was going to rip his heart out, or at least lasers would've shot out of her eyes, but she was civil to him instead. To Wes' credit, he did apologize later and to Annalise's credit, she accepted his apology. Next, it was Annalise's scheme to become the new defense attorney to the Hapstall siblings, who are accused and probably are guilty of the murder of their wealthy parents, a case which is reminiscent of the RL case of the Menendez brothers, who killed their wealthy parents, hence my nickname for them: Raggedy Ann & Andy Menendez. If Ann & Andy are having an affair, Andy killed the aunt & one of them shot Annalise, I wouldn't be surprised. Having Laurel doctor the surveillance footage of the suspect's aunt's visit to a health spa look like their original lawyer did it was downright Machiavellian on Annalise's part.

 

  Next, Annalise's realizing that Bonnie killed Rebecca because Bonnie thought that she killed Lila and Bonnie thought that she was avenging Sam, who, to put it mildly, didn't deserve it. Sam was a world-class asshole who cheated on Annalise-his former patient-with one of  his students, whom he got pregnant and had Frank murder her to cover his own ass, so Sam got what he deserved, as far as I'm concerned. Annalise's being bi was yet another surprise, sort of. When Eve showed up at Annalie's office, I had a feeling that they were more than friends and it's true. Viola Davis & Famke Jannsen have nice chemistry & I hope that FK can come back as much as possible, but ITA that Eve's defending Nate won't end well. Annalise & Wes at the dance club, that was creepy, to say the least. As for them having a sexual relationship, ew! By the name of all that is holy, I'm begging you show-please, please, PLEASE DON'T! GO! THERE!

[represent]

Yeah, the more I think about it this lady is just a great con-artist, she knows all about Wes' mom issues, I know she did her research on all of them.

Taking his head and cradling it in her lap last season. It's maternal/sexual, it's the whole Oedipus Rex Complex theme going on...that's it.

Edited September 27, 2015 by represent

[dirtypop90]

^ See I would hate to think she was playing on his mommy issues, even though I know you are probably right. They didn't have frank drop that line to annalise letting us know they know about his mom's (alleged) suicide for no reason. I get she is a master manipulator and a con artist but her playing wes like that would make me not like her. And I do like annalise as scewed up as she is, likely because I've only see her manipulate grown ups so far, but Wes is a child compared to her. It's so wrong. viola recently described their relationship as being a maternal, demented, mentorship. When she said demented, the warning bells went off.

 

I'm just going to hold on to the idea that she is someone tied to his childhood, even if she isn't his mother, and that's the connection.

Edited September 27, 2015 by dirtypop90

[ShadowSixx]

Do you think Anni is more attentive towards Wes because she thinks that she can easily manipulate him over the others? She manipulates him and then she has Wes manipulate the others Michaela, Connor, and Laurel, cause I don't know if Asher is easily manipulated as they really exclude him from mostly everything. He could end being like Bonnie. Frank gets all the insider information while Bonnie is mostly excluded from all things, probably why they're attracted to each other. I do hope they utilize Asher more.

Edited September 27, 2015 by ShadowSixx

[secnarf]

I'd say Asher is pretty easily manipulated - all one has to do is mention Trotter Lake or whatever it is, and Asher will do what he's told. Also, Connor got him to confirm that Bonnie is his gf pretty easily.

 

Asher being out of the loop is kind of getting old fast. Now that he's feeding information to the prosecutor, he's bound to get pulled into this whole disaster. I'd rather it happen sooner (and quickly) rather than later (and rather than being all drawn out).

[crazyirishlady]

I firmly believe that Anneliese is Wes' bio mom some how.   They way she talks in absolutes when she talks about him makes me feel this way.

[backformore]

This might help you; it's a longer season one recap than the one they played at the beginning of the episode. I made my mother watch it before we sat down to watch the premiere together because I knew it'd keep her from asking questions during the show, haha.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTRLLcacIHQ

Ah, thank you. Like your mom, I need a refresher for shows like this one. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who forgets details from previous seasons.

[pennben]

Wes is a child compared to her. It's so wrong. viola recently described their relationship as being a maternal, demented, mentorship. When she said demented, the warning bells went off.

 

That's probably the best description of the relationship I've heard, if she had added "creepy as hell" it would be the perfect description.

[Chicago Redshirt]

As they pointed out last season they were in Sam's house, uninvited and were trying to steal his thumb drive i.e. his property. Technically they killed Sam while in the commission of a crime, which is murder. Yes, they were defending Rebecca, but Rebecca didn't have the right to be there or to steal Sam's property and they all know enough about the law to know how much trouble they were really in. If a robber walks into a store and tries to steal something and the store owner tries to stop him and is killed during a struggle, the thief is up on first degree murder charges and anyone who helped him break into the store is an accessory. So, no matter how awful Sam was, the kids were in big big trouble.

 

I don't want to go too far off-topic, but of the people present at Sam's death, Rebecca was the only one involved in trying to steal the information from Sam's computer. She, along with Nate, came up with that plan, and none of the Murder 4 knew about it.

 

None of the Murder Four knew what was on thumb drive or what Rebecca was doing with it at the time. Michaela just showed up and was surprised to see Rebecca, and when Sam freaked out at her presence, Rebecca told her to call Wes. Wes brought the other two and he tried to talk Sam into letting everyone just leave peacefully. Then Rebecca had the thumb drive out in an obvious place, which caused Sam to freak out some more. The Murder Four try to assist her, not knowing what Sam was freaking out about. At one point, Wes says to one of the others to get the thumb drive. It's at best unclear why he wanted them to, or why whoever got it did so.

 

Felony-murder doesn't apply to the Murder 4 (IMO) because none of them were participants or accomplices in the original burglary. From their actions as portrayed, it seemed like they were acting in defense of Rebecca. 

[DollEyes]

More thoughts:

 

  Asher's being pressured by the prosecutor for Nate's murder trial could backfire on him in more ways than one. It could not only piss off Annalise, Bonnie wouldn't be too happy about it either and given how protective she is of Annalise, that could prove to be fatal. Wes has definitely done a 180 since last season, most of which has to do with losing Rebecca, hence his attitude in class and constant internet searches. I wasn't a fan of Rebecca nor her relationship with Wes and it should've ended, but not by Bonnie's hand. Wes' relationship with Annalise just keeps getting murkier. One minute she's Wes' professor, the next she's his surrogate mom; one moment she's his co-conspirator, the next, she's his dance partner. Hopefully, Annalise and Wes won't start sleeping together, for their sake, the show's sake & my stomach's sake.

 

 

I firmly believe that Annalise is Wes' bio mom somehow. The way she talks about him in absolutes make me feel this way.

 

  I respectfully disagree because of the scene in the premiere episode when she flirted with Wes in the bathroom. That scene convinced me that while Annalise may act like Wes' mom sometimes, she's not the real thing.

 

    Re Laurel & Michaela, while Michaela was right to be pissed about Laurel stealing her engagement ring in order to keep her quiet about bonfire night, since Laurel returned it and apologized, Michaela should have at least tried to have gotten over it much sooner than she did. Besides, it's not like Michaela's not keeping a secret of her own, aka "Eggs 911." Maybe one of the reasons why Michaela was so upset is because it's a constant reminder of her having one of the worst gaydars ever & getting shot down by another cute guy at the bar didn't help.

 

  Connor & Oliver are adorable. Oliver is clearly a good influence on Connor, otherwise he wouldn't be celibate, taking PrEP nor moving in with him of his own free will. Connor's telling Oliver that seeing him is the best part of his day was sweet. Connor had better not break Oliver's heart.

 

 

Not buying the Connor/Oliver relationship mostly because I can't believe that a sexy manwhore like Connor would be attracted to a nerd type (sorry for the superficiality, but hey).

 

  Again disagreeing. There are many examples onscreen & off of so-called "beautiful" people falling for nerds. Like the saying goes, "Opposites attract." In his own way Oliver is even sexier than Connor IMO because he doesn't need to bang every hot guy he knows to prove it. Connor is starting to realize that there's much more to love than looks & it's about time, as far as I'm concerned.

[April Bloodgate]

Again disagreeing. There are many examples onscreen & off of so-called "beautiful" people falling for nerds. Like the saying goes, "Opposites attract." In his own way Oliver is even sexier than Connor IMO because he doesn't need to bang every hot guy he knows to prove it. Connor is starting to realize that there's much more to love than looks & it's about time, as far as I'm concerned.

I find Oliver very attractive. I think the two of them make a really hot couple.

[dirtypop90]

I also think Conner is attractive. I don't get the whole Oliver is out of his league thing but I don't think Conner is all that. They're close in attractiveness to me.

[ShowStopper]

This premiere was so good. Annalise and Eve? Loved it! And Annalise getting shot?! Crazy!

 

I stumbled across this new podcast called "You're Damn Right". One of the shows they're discussing is HTGAWM(the other two are Empire and Scream Queens if I remember correctly). They're kind of funny and I enjoyed if anyone is curious. I think they start discussing it around 54:40.

http://ashandjohnmultipod.podomatic.com/entry/2015-09-26T13_15_04-07_00

[represent]

 

 

I stumbled across this new podcast called "You're Damn Right". One of the shows they're discussing is HTGAWM(the other two are Empire and Scream Queens if I remember correctly). They're kind of funny and I enjoyed if anyone is curious. I think they start discussing it around 54:40.

http://ashandjohnmul...T13_15_04-07_00

This podcast was hilarious, the guy with his stuffed nose sounded like those characters, Beavis and Butthead. 

 

I cracked up when he gave a shout out to Michaela to call him because he doesn't have much going for him but being a  heterosexual  man, LOL. 

 

And all the WTF's? and WTF is going on? were all hilarious. Yep, you will say that throughout this show. 

 

I particularly liked it when the girl said it in reference to Wes and Anni's relationship, like does she want to mother him or ....

 

Thanks, that was funny.

 

I also agree with the girl that Bonnie is in love with Annalise, and it's interesting because Anni keeps telling Bonnie that every "bad" thing she's done has been in the name of Sam. So yeah, we know it hasn't, it's all about Anni.  I'm just not sure why Anni seems to act like she doesn't know that Bonnie feels this way, yet she clearly acknowledges Eve's feelings. 

Yeah, I'm looking forward to them delving into the backstory for the Anni and Bonnie relationship, what on earth happened? Where did these two find one another? Rather where did Anni find her, cause you know Anni noticed Bonnie's weaknesses and vulnerability long before Bonnie noticed Annalise. 

 

Annalise is a hunter, she looks for prey.

Edited September 29, 2015 by represent

[sjohnson]

I don't want to go too far off-topic, but of the people present at Sam's death, Rebecca was the only one involved in trying to steal the information from Sam's computer. She, along with Nate, came up with that plan, and none of the Murder 4 knew about it.

 

None of the Murder Four knew what was on thumb drive or what Rebecca was doing with it at the time. Michaela just showed up and was surprised to see Rebecca, and when Sam freaked out at her presence, Rebecca told her to call Wes. Wes brought the other two and he tried to talk Sam into letting everyone just leave peacefully. Then Rebecca had the thumb drive out in an obvious place, which caused Sam to freak out some more. The Murder Four try to assist her, not knowing what Sam was freaking out about. At one point, Wes says to one of the others to get the thumb drive. It's at best unclear why he wanted them to, or why whoever got it did so.

 

Felony-murder doesn't apply to the Murder 4 (IMO) because none of them were participants or accomplices in the original burglary. From their actions as portrayed, it seemed like they were acting in defense of Rebecca. 

But they were actively helping Rebecca walk out with Sam's property. They went to the extreme of physically attacking Sam. They didn't just intervene to save Rebecca from physical retribution, then ask Rebecca to explain herself. And they most certainly did not call the police and ask them to investigate. They attacked Sam to help Rebecca escape. (Well, I think Connor didn't but driving everybody else there puts him into it. Personally I believe the law on felon murder really needs a rethink, but that's just me.) I think it's really hard to explain why all four unanimously decided to help Rebecca even as she was accused of theft by Sam, except that it was in the script. The only rational explanation for all four supporting Rebecca's theft is prearrangement, which does indeed count as murder. 

 

Of course, I don't know how far we can really trouble to analyze this show. According to it, Frank whose whole reason for existenc in that house was to be Annalise's dirty tricks man was for some unexplained reason working this time for Sam. Huh? That leaves the entire Lila murder plot with a huge plot hole! Well, the show is what is is, and it will always sacrifice consistent characterization (and its child, logical plotting,) for the sake of sensation. 

[nutty1]

Ah, thank you. Like your mom, I need a refresher for shows like this one. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who forgets details from previous seasons.

 

I also say thanks!! That was a great refresher course in just a few minutes. I like that Rebecca narrated it.

[Chicago Redshirt]

But they were actively helping Rebecca walk out with Sam's property. They went to the extreme of physically attacking Sam. They didn't just intervene to save Rebecca from physical retribution, then ask Rebecca to explain herself. And they most certainly did not call the police and ask them to investigate. They attacked Sam to help Rebecca escape. (Well, I think Connor didn't but driving everybody else there puts him into it. Personally I believe the law on felon murder really needs a rethink, but that's just me.) I think it's really hard to explain why all four unanimously decided to help Rebecca even as she was accused of theft by Sam, except that it was in the script. The only rational explanation for all four supporting Rebecca's theft is prearrangement, which does indeed count as murder. 

 

Don't want to press too much further with this, as it's off-topic to the episode.

 

I don't think we can say any of the Murder 4 were "actively helping Rebecca walk out with Sam's property." We are able to say that at one point Wes yells at someone/the rest of the group to get the thumb drive. We don't know why Wes did so. We don't know why any of the others listened, or to the extent that they listened. It could have been that they wanted to deprive Sam of his property or something else criminal-minded, sure. It could also have been for other reasons that do not show a criminal mindset, such as trying to secure evidence or in an effort to make peace.

We can also not say that they "went to the extreme of attacking Sam." Sam was the initial aggressor. The clip is posted earlier in the thread and you can see at 1:34 in, he tackles both Rebecca and Wes. Even if he had been the initial aggressor there, the way he resumes aggression after regaining consciousness and falling over the railing would IMO make defense of others a perfectly legitimate defense. 

 

I don't think we can hold it against the group that they didn't immediately ask Rebecca to explain herself. They didn't have that much time between when Sam fell over the railing and when Sam started attacking Rebecca again. There's also the element of being in shock after all this happened. What matters is the mindset of the people at the time of their actions. In the case of Wes when it came to the actual killing, I think the only reasonable inference is that he saw his girlfriend being choked by an angry man and he was trying to defend her. As to Connor, Lauren and Michaela, I don't think that any of them were actively trying to help Rebecca steal the thumb drive. Mostly they seemed to be reacting when Sam was attacking/chasing after them, Wes and Rebecca.

 

Driving the others definitely doesn't put Connor as an accomplice to either the burglary or the aftermath. Again, to be guilty of felony murder, you have to have the intent to commit the underlying felony. Connor (and for that matter, the rest of the Murder 4) showed up with no idea that there was a potential burglary situation, let alone wanting to be an accomplice to the burglary. To the extent that "grab it" might indicate that Wes and others were wanting to become accomplices in the burglary, I think that's relatively weak. 

 

I think it's fairly obvious that when you see a grown man go berserk and attack first Rebecca and Wes, you might want to stop his attack. Then when you see him hit Connor, it's even more clear that Sam has gotten out of control. Why has he gone so berserk? One explanation that they might have is that there is incriminating evidence on the flash drive that Sam wants destroyed or contained. 

[Glade]

Good thing Michaela doesn't know about Ana/Eve, since she thinks that any same-sex contact makes someone 100% gay, and interprets her own insane, hysterical homophobic biases as hard evidence for her speculations and likes to label other people for them.