S06.E11: Sorry Not Sorry

[alexa]

I agree. As hard as Barb tries, Jace's behavioral issues are happening in HER care, not Jenelle's. According to Barb, Jenelle barely sees Jace. Naturally it doesn't absolve Jenelle of any responsibility because she's the one who started this mess, but I don't think Barb's home is a healthy environment either. It's basically the lessor of two evils at this point. I think Jace needs serious therapy as he's getting worse with each passing season.

I honestly don't see Jace as doing as badly as is often mentioned here.  We see him rarely and occasionally he has a bad moment that seems similar to any other child his age.  Most of the time he seems very calm, well behaved, and happy (when he is shown playing or having quiet moments at Barb).  I do think most of his issues have come from the transition from Janelle's, as for a while he was going there more often and would then act out when he got back home to Barb's.  That is pretty normal.  

 

I feel like sometimes more is made of the children's bad moments in this show because we see them in random moments.  Even the best of young children have bad moments, and go through phases where they have more than usual.  

[Tatum]

I honestly don't see Jace as doing as badly as is often mentioned here. We see him rarely and occasionally he has a bad moment that seems similar to any other child his age. Most of the time he seems very calm, well behaved, and happy (when he is shown playing or having quiet moments at Barb). I do think most of his issues have come from the transition from Janelle's, as for a while he was going there more often and would then act out when he got back home to Barb's. That is pretty normal.

I feel like sometimes more is made of the children's bad moments in this show because we see them in random moments. Even the best of young children have bad moments, and go through phases where they have more than usual.

I agree with this. Barb is not ideal for a single parent, but that doesn't mean Jace is automatically jail bound or destined to be a serial killer or anything. Sure, Jace may have some issues related to Barb's temper and general lapses in judgment, but I think if Barb raises him into adulthood, he will see her as a flawed but devoted mother who sacrificed her time, money, and personal relationships because she loved him.

Yes, he probably would have flourished more had Jenelle relinquished him to a two parent family that actually wanted to raise a child, but since Jenelle blew that for him, he'll probably realize this is the best outcome that was possible to him.

[alexa]

I agree with this. Barb is not ideal for a single parent, but that doesn't mean Jace is automatically jail bound or destined to be a serial killer or anything. Sure, Jace may have some issues related to Barb's temper and general lapses in judgment, but I think if Barb raises him into adulthood, he will see her as a flawed but devoted mother who sacrificed her time, money, and personal relationships because she loved him.

Yes, he probably would have flourished more had Jenelle relinquished him to a two parent family that actually wanted to raise a child, but since Jenelle blew that for him, he'll probably realize this is the best outcome that was possible to him.

So true, and I am part of a two parent family raising a child, and I am sure at times my son would say I am flawed but devoted :-)  Parenting isn't easy, and I think Barb has done a pretty good job considering the situation.  Plus I love how she has gotten smarter over the years about limiting her and Jace's time with Janelle (to avoid arguments, etc).

[Miss Chevious]

I agree Jace is probably a lot calmer when a.) the cameras aren't rolling and b.) during his normal everyday life with Barb for stretches of time.

Any child would have cause to act up around the transition time going to a different environment, then back again. And understandably, get a little nervous and quiet when having cameras focused on him. Yes I know he's been around a TV crew for several years, but that doesn't make it any easier. Especially if that child isn't a born "ham". Jace seems like he has more of a reticent nature to start with.

Which is why he turns away from conflict. He knows that when Mom and egg donor get together, there's going to be harsh words. No wonder he says he has to go to the bathroom (with an MTV staffer) or goes off and plays with the empty chairs in the restaurant. He can feel the tension. We've seen him try to go his happy place more than once.

I wish Jenelle would finally realize this and straighten up for real. Sadly, it'll won't be happening any time soon if ever. She'll always be chasing after the next guy.

ETA: fix spelling. Darn autocorrect.

Edited September 21, 2015 by Miss Chevious

[lezlers]

Who said that Leah didn't "admit" that she has a drug problem? Because she didn't openly admit it to Corey & Jeremy? Or on TV? I wouldn't want to admit it on TV either. It's clear she went to rehab and you don't go to rehab if you don't at least admit to yourself that you have a problem. Also, there are rehab centers that will deal with BOTH addiction and mental health. So when she says she's going to therapy, she's not necessarily lying.

As far as Jeremy, I think she just came to resent him. I know yinz hate her- but put yourself in her shoes for a minute. You're 22-23 years old and you have 3 kids- all under the age of 5. You have 1 child with special needs. You have everything you need financially but your husband is gone most of the time, leaving you to take care of the kids and getting them where they need to go. All of this while everyone is watching you, judging you. It would be hard. Her drug issue isn't the only thing that changed her. I think it was a mixture of that, her depression, and other mental health issues she may have. Even Jeremy said she was different at the beginning of their marriage, that she had goals.

Like I said in my last post, none of us really know the whole story. She could've been way worse than we saw. Jeremy could've been way worse too. As other have said, there were a lot of red flags when he married her. Did he choose not to see them because he loved her or because he like that she's a "Teen Mom"? Everyone makes mistakes- especially between the ages of 16 and 23. I'm embarassed at some of the things I did at that age, but I didn't have kids. I don't agree with a lot of the things she's done & the way she's handled things. I'm not defending her cheating or her spending habits or her drug problem.

I'm just saying that I'm rooting for her to get the help that she needs to be a better person and a better mother. To me, it's just sad to sit and watch another human being slip further and further down.

 

I think everyone wants her to get better, that's not really the issue.  As far as us not knowing if she's admitted she has a drug problem, all we can go on is what we see on the show and in the media and she not only denies having a drug problem, but she gets PISSED whenever anyone even hints that she might.  To me, that doesn't seem like someone who has admitted to themselves, much less anyone else, that she has a problem.  Also, she drives with her children while high.  No one who admits they have a problem (even just to themselves) would allow themselves to be filmed while doing that.  Also, if she really admitted to herself or someone else that she had a problem, I don't think she would've immediately jumped on to another guy, moving her kids in with him merely weeks after meeting.  If she admitted she had a problem (again, even just to herself) she'd know that she likely doesn't make reasoned decisions and would seek advice before engaging in destructive behaviors.  She also wouldn't put up such a fight with Corey taking the girls for more time.  You're absolutely right that we don't know everything, no one ever knows everything about anyone else, but given the fact that the only information available points strongly towards one conclusion, with zero evidence to the contrary, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume she hasn't, in fact, admitted she has a problem to herself or to others.  

 

A tiny little bit of personal responsibility for any of the things she's done could go a long way in how the public perceives her.  For that, she only has herself to blame.

 

Again, this is my opinion and my opinion only.  

[DangerousMinds]

Who said that Leah didn't "admit" that she has a drug problem? Because she didn't openly admit it to Corey & Jeremy? Or on TV? I wouldn't want to admit it on TV either. It's clear she went to rehab and you don't go to rehab if you don't at least admit to yourself that you have a problem. Also, there are rehab centers that will deal with BOTH addiction and mental health. So when she says she's going to therapy, she's not necessarily lying.

As far as Jeremy, I think she just came to resent him. I know yinz hate her- but put yourself in her shoes for a minute. You're 22-23 years old and you have 3 kids- all under the age of 5. You have 1 child with special needs. You have everything you need financially but your husband is gone most of the time, leaving you to take care of the kids and getting them where they need to go. All of this while everyone is watching you, judging you. It would be hard. Her drug issue isn't the only thing that changed her. I think it was a mixture of that, her depression, and other mental health issues she may have. Even Jeremy said she was different at the beginning of their marriage, that she had goals.

Like I said in my last post, none of us really know the whole story. She could've been way worse than we saw. Jeremy could've been way worse too. As other have said, there were a lot of red flags when he married her. Did he choose not to see them because he loved her or because he like that she's a "Teen Mom"? Everyone makes mistakes- especially between the ages of 16 and 23. I'm embarassed at some of the things I did at that age, but I didn't have kids. I don't agree with a lot of the things she's done & the way she's handled things. I'm not defending her cheating or her spending habits or her drug problem.

I'm just saying that I'm rooting for her to get the help that she needs to be a better person and a better mother. To me, it's just sad to sit and watch another human being slip further and further down.

It's clear to me that Leah is/was being treated as a dual diagnosis patient with both mental health (probably depression/anxiety) and addiction issues. IMO she has been self medicating with prescription (and perhaps other) drugs to ease her anxiety and depression. I agree it is obvious that she went to a rehab for treatment, even if she doesn't outright say that.

[DangerousMinds]

I know that Jenelle makes for great train-wreck TV (and I won't lie, I love it, dude), but she needs to be cut from the show for the sake of Jace. This season they've shown that he's already acting out in school and has started wetting the bed.

 

The only time she claimed to want to see him this episode is for her own needs, and then she didn't pay attention to him anyway. She just needed Barb to complain to about her life because her other "friend" had already put her time in for the episode. When she said, "I wouldn't trade Kaiser for the world" she sounded like she'd trade him for a cigarette.

 

I have 1000x more maternal instincts toward my cat than Jenelle has for either of her children. I hope she or the court end up terminating her parental rights for both children.

I could have sworn I heard her say "return" Kaiser, instead of "trade" Kaiser. I was half-watching and my first thought was "return him to where?"

[WhosThatGirl]

To Janelle, my guess is she only sees Jace when she films. Or, when the season of the show is on and she needs to do a quick photo op because she is "Jace's mom!" and needs to remind viewers or give a social media post. Kaiser was more or less to me anyway, a means to keep Nathan around. I'm pretty sure she wanted a baby because she wanted a ring from him and knew the baby would be the fastest way. However, I think she was hoping Kaiser would have been a girl because then Nathan would still be around for Jace. I think we've pointed out how as soon as Kaiser was born, Nathan sort of didn't press the custody issue for Jace as much as he had before with Janelle and Barb. He didn't need to. He had Kaiser now. It's sad but I don't believe she has a maternal bone in her body. To be honest I think she called Barb for "moral support" because the producers made her so she could have a scene with Jace because she hadn't all episode and the show is realizing that for the most part, she has hardly had any with him. 

Edited September 21, 2015 by WhosThatGirl

[woodscommaelle]

I could have sworn I heard her say "return" Kaiser, instead of "trade" Kaiser. I was half-watching and my first thought was "return him to where?"

Pretty sure you're right. 

[leighroda]

But Jenelle had kaiser for a WHOLE MONTH! (Please read in extreme sarcasm font, as as a parent you don't generally count how long you "had" them)

[missy jo]

I agree with the several PP who's pointed out that of course Jace will act out in general or be uncomfortable around cameras. My concerns are the few facts that we've either seen or have been mentioned: trouble in school (mentioned several times and school conference), wetting the bed (trademark sign of regression, brought up by Barb). Third, and we know this is "abuse," is the fighting and screaming in front of Jace, about Jace. AndI know Barb does her best, but as had been said, she has availability issues, plus has a bad track record with her other kids. I truly hope the best for him.

 

I agree with this quote below, and perhaps if they're excluded from filming, Jenelle will sign away her parental rights. I'd bet every penny I have that she in no way, shape or form wants custody of that boy.

Edited September 21, 2015 by missy jo

[Pepper Mostly]

I am shocked that (then) one year old or nearly one year old Kaiser will just chill in his car seat carrier while the adults talk and eat their frozen yogurt. He is one chill baby. My nine month old would be having none of that. He's super curious and always wants to explore. He loves to interact with people - smile, babble, grab, chew, crawl, cruise, etc. He would have been trying to get attention from Barb & Jenelle, reaching for their yogurt, trying to crawl out of his carrier, etc. No way would he have just hung out in his carrier. He would have been fussing to be free to explore, be held and talked to, etc. Thank goodness Kaiser is so chill. I hate to think of how Jenelle would react to my very active and curious baby. :(

 

 

Talking about Kaiser being chubby and chill baby - I think he gets food as replacement for love from Janelle. Every time he wants to play and interact with her or gets fussy she just gives him bottle (and now solid food) to not be bothered by him and shut him up. Food will always be his comfort.

Kaiser is used to being ignored. He gets a bottle stuffed in his face if he whimpers. I've never seen Janelle or Nipps interact with him, play with him, even talk to him. He's just accustomed to not getting any attention so he doesn't try. Like those babies who are "blanket trained" by those Quiverfull loonies, or those poor babies in Chinese or Russian orphanages.

 

I used to be pretty neutral on Kail---thought she was immature but on the whole interested in improving her life and her son's life. Now I utterly detest her and that man-boy she married. Isaac is a sweetie pie. So cute!

 

Cutest of all is Aubree. I love the little faces she makes. She's adorable.

[BitterApple]

Kaiser is used to being ignored. He gets a bottle stuffed in his face if he whimpers. I've never seen Janelle or Nipps interact with him, play with him, even talk to him. He's just accustomed to not getting any attention so he doesn't try. Like those babies who are "blanket trained" by those Quiverfull loonies, or those poor babies in Chinese or Russian orphanages.

So true. I have teenaged cousins who were adopted from Russia and they literally never made a peep when they were babies. My uncle explained that crying in the orphanage didn't bring them attention so they learned not to bother. Thankfully, they turned out okay, but IMO Kaiser's disposition is the result of parental indifference rather than him being just an unusually mellow baby. Edited September 21, 2015 by BitterApple

[ghoulina]

There's a reason why people say that they're "happily married". If they are happily married, they're not going to cheat. But if someone's needs aren't met, they're going to get those needs fufilled somewhere else. People don't always just go and cheat for the sex either. Some people feel that their significant other just doesn't care about them or even what they do anymore. So they go & try to find that affection elsewhere.

 

The problem is, I don't think anyone is happily married 100% of the time. I love my husband and I think on the whole we have a good marriage, but we have had some valleys along the way. There were times when he was NOT my favorite person. I didn't feel like he was meeting all my needs. But I didn't cheat on him. You talk things through. Find out ways to get your needs met, or alter your expectations. You ride out the bad times. At least, that's what marriage is to me.

 

I think Leah is just an incredibly needy person and I don't think there's any way someone can meet all of her needs. She wants a good provider, but then bitches and moans when they do what they have to do to provide for her. That truck - I'm pretty sure Corey wanted to get that for work. To have a more reliable vehicle. Leah made it seem like he didn't care about his kids. She seems to just want to have her cake and eat it too. Yes, she's young, but when you have children, you need to go ahead and grow up. They're depending on you. 

[ghoulina]

I agree with the several PP who's pointed out that of course Jace will act out in general or be uncomfortable around cameras. My concerns are the few facts that we've either seen or have been mentioned: trouble in school (mentioned several times and school conference), wetting the bed (trademark sign of regression, brought up by Barb). Third, and we know this is "abuse," is the fighting and screaming in front of Jace, about Jace. AndI know Barb does her best, but as had been said, she has availability issues, plus has a bad track record with her other kids. I truly hope the best for him.

 

I don't think you're wrong to be concerned for him. Barb is better than Jenelle, and she cracks me up, but I'm still not entirely convinced she isn't damaging that boy in some ways herself. I just can't forget the moment when he was being mean to Gabriel and she threatened to send him to live elsewhere. I suddenly had a vision of what Jenelle's childhood must look like. Jenelle is an adult now, so she needs to own her shit and make her own choices. But I just hope we won't see the pattern repeating with Jace. I have noticed Barb trying really hard not to fight in front of him lately, so there is hope. 

[lovesnark]

I don't think you're wrong to be concerned for him. Barb is better than Jenelle, and she cracks me up, but I'm still not entirely convinced she isn't damaging that boy in some ways herself. I just can't forget the moment when he was being mean to Gabriel and she threatened to send him to live elsewhere. I suddenly had a vision of what Jenelle's childhood must look like. Jenelle is an adult now, so she needs to own her shit and make her own choices. But I just hope we won't see the pattern repeating with Jace. I have noticed Barb trying really hard not to fight in front of him lately, so there is hope. 

This has been such an improvement to me and makes me think Barb is getting some counseling. Hopefully, Jace is too. And, Barb tried really hard to explain to Jenelle that the behavior problems happen after he's spent the weekend with his egg donor and Nipples and Jenelle starting screaming at her. Jenelle has told us that she's called Barb to come get Jace because they were fighting. Who knows what that kid has witnessed? Fighting, then having them badger him about living with them. I'm 58 and I'd have some behavior problems after being forced to spend a weekend with those idiots.

[heatherchandler]

 

Now Kail wants to go into mass communications?  Is she one of those who becomes a life long student?  She doe NOT have the personality for that type of job.

 

 

 

She doesn't have the face for it either!  She has a face for radio.

 

Janelle was high as FUCK when she was at her attorney's office.  She could barely keep her eyes open.  She probably figured that she would be in jail for a while, might as well get high.  (HIGH HIGH YA BOTH HIGH)

Edited September 21, 2015 by heatherchandler

[leighroda]

This may be an unpopular opinion, but when Kail was reading for the news position, I think she was weirdly awkward considering the time she has spent on camera the last 5-6 yrs. I just think it's odd, im sure scripted news is totally different than what she does, even the parts on teen mom that are scripted are usually voice overs so you can't see her awkwardness. I also found it kinda funny when she was getting feed back how we were pretending she was not currently being filmed... I feel like if it weren't she would have been like "I know how to be on camera".

[missy jo]

She doesn't have the face for it either!  She has a face for radio.

 

 

Heh.

 

This may be an unpopular opinion, but when Kail was reading for the news position, I think she was weirdly awkward considering the time she has spent on camera the last 5-6 yrs. I just think it's odd, im sure scripted news is totally different than what she does, even the parts on teen mom that are scripted are usually voice overs so you can't see her awkwardness.

 

 

Super awkward, and also very defensive and self-conscious about sucking at it. I can't imagine her being picked over worthy competition so it must have been due to the show.

 

Janelle was high as FUCK when she was at her attorney's office.  She could barely keep her eyes open.  She probably figured that she would be in jail for a while, might as well get high.  (HIGH HIGH YA BOTH HIGH)

 

 

That's the most messed up I've seen her since IDK when ...

[lovesnark]

She doesn't have the face for it either!  She has a face for radio.

 

Janelle was high as FUCK when she was at her attorney's office.  She could barely keep her eyes open.  She probably figured that she would be in jail for a while, might as well get high.  (HIGH HIGH YA BOTH HIGH)

She was totally gooned. My guess is she hit the bong really hard and followed it with a double xanax chaser.

[Lemons]

This has been such an improvement to me and makes me think Barb is getting some counseling. Hopefully, Jace is too. And, Barb tried really hard to explain to Jenelle that the behavior problems happen after he's spent the weekend with his egg donor and Nipples and Jenelle starting screaming at her. Jenelle has told us that she's called Barb to come get Jace because they were fighting. Who knows what that kid has witnesed.

This is probably the first time anyone has ever offered Barb some support. Hopefully MTV is paying for it since this is a for profit show.

Even is Barb was perfect and did everything exactly right, Jace would still have issues. He doesn't have a father. He has an unstable mother who is In and out of his life. he has probably witnessed his mother nodding off as a junkie and his mother has a big scary violent boyfriend. This would scar any child.

[anarchyangel84]

Let me try to answer your questions and possibly clear up how many of us feel. Leah made mistakes. She has made a lot of mistakes. Plenty of adolescents do, and plenty of adults make mistakes as well. I agree with you that we are all human and no one is perfect. Not one single person is pure.

With regards to Leah, she chose to be on a television show even after that deer-cam fiasco and her secret about drug use became public knowledge. As for Leah not having to tell us the viewers anything or to keep things private, she sure does have that right to keep things to herself. You made a great point there about her fearing the backlash that would come about from revealing her health and mental struggles. I could understand how that can tear up any individual who is likely going to be shamed or made to feel guilty for having a drug issue. However, she chose to risk that by doing another season of Teen Mom. By doing so, she put her own troubles out there for all to see. I think many people would have respected her and supported her a lot more if she had turned down this season and went about whatever it was she needed to do to get herself in a healthy state of mind. No one knows what Leah's mindset is or was before the season. We can only go by her words and actions on the show and what she is putting out there on her Facebook and Twitter. If she wanted to keep things private, posting on FB and Twitter is not being private and it only opens herself up more to the scrutiny that she is now receiving.

Allow me to point out something else. Leah has spent a lot of time pointing out what her opinions are on Jeremy and Cory's scenes on her social media pages. Those are scenes that she was not involved in. She has no clue what went down because she wasn't there. Yet, she feels she can tell the public what she knows and feels about what Jeremy and Cory are all about in their scenes and claim that they are lying and being dishonest. Leah is also lying and being dishonest in her scenes. So, with that, Leah shouldn't expect the public to not point out what their opinions are of her.

I hope I helped in clarifying this up. :-)

Actually, you splained it perfectly. I understand that people aren't necessarily attacking on her for the mistakes she's made in the past. People are more angry because she's not taking responsibility for the decisions she's made and because she continues to make them over and over again. I don't pay much attention to her on social media so I didn't realize that she was trashing Corey & Jeremy so much. I think they had a small part in their marriages not working, but it mostly was Leah and she definitely has no right to talk any crap on them. I'm still going to root for her to get better, for her & for those kids because they deserve a good Mother. But I don't think she should've done Teen Mom this time. I think she did it because she knew the divorce was coming & she wanted the money.

I also realized that I've been a little hypocritical. I just don't like Jenelle. She's made mistakes though, just like Leah but because I really really don't like her, I've treated the situation differently. I do think that Jenelle is a lot worse than Leah though & I doubt very much my opinion will change on that.

Thank you though, I do understand things a lot better now.

[lovesnark]

Actually, you splained it perfectly. I understand that people aren't necessarily attacking on her for the mistakes she's made in the past. People are more angry because she's not taking responsibility for the decisions she's made and because she continues to make them over and over again. I don't pay much attention to her on social media so I didn't realize that she was trashing Corey & Jeremy so much. I think they had a small part in their marriages not working, but it mostly was Leah and she definitely has no right to talk any crap on them. I'm still going to root for her to get better, for her & for those kids because they deserve a good Mother. But I don't think she should've done Teen Mom this time. I think she did it because she knew the divorce was coming & she wanted the money.

I also realized that I've been a little hypocritical. I just don't like Jenelle. She's made mistakes though, just like Leah but because I really really don't like her, I've treated the situation differently. I do think that Jenelle is a lot worse than Leah though & I doubt very much my opinion will change on that.

Thank you though, I do understand things a lot better now.

I agree with you.  It's clear to me that Leah loves her kids. Hopefully, she'll get  herself together and grow up and be a better mom.  Jenelle doesn't have a maternal bone in her body and doesn't seem capable of loving anything except drama and fighting.

[hatchetgirl]

Why didn't Jenelle show that bruise to her attorney? Creepy nipples certainly had his share of domestic violence, so I just don't get it.

Jenelle was definitely on something in her Attorney's office.

[ElderPrice]

Talking about Kaiser being chubby and chill baby - I think he gets food as replacement for love from Janelle. Every time he wants to play and interact with her or gets fussy she just gives him bottle (and now solid food) to not be bothered by him and shut him up. Food will always be his comfort.

 

Maybe Kaiser is just a fat, content baby. My 9 month old grandson is like that. Chubby and always cheerful. And my grandson also looks cross-eyed. My daughter took him to an ophthalmologist to have it checked and he said that the baby was perfectly fine, that chubby babies tend to have an extra fold of skin  that looks like they're cross-eyed but they're not, he's just a fat baby lol. There's enough to snark over Janelle with without ragging on poor chubby Kaiser.

[ShaNaeNae]

After years of experience in relationship dysfunction, she still suffers from the same fallacy as Leah. He had an erection around me, he wanted sex, therefore he loves me and respects me and wants to be there for me.

 

Don't you mean phallacy?  ;)

 

The whole visual. HeebaJeeba.

Edited September 22, 2015 by ShaNaeNae

[FozzyBear]

I'm at a loss as to what is going on with Joe. His entire attitude the past two episodes has left me wondering what is happening when he gets home at night. I don't mean to imply that I think there is some huge scandal brewing, but he's acting weird and I don't actually think it has much to do with Kali for once. First he thinks he's going to have to pay $5,000 in child support because of what? Where did he get those numbers? And why was he near tears talking to Kali about it? It's not like they've never been to court. And Kali was right. When they try to do things themselves(as Kali dictates) they fight(because she's a crazy bitch). So go to mediation and work it out officially so you don't spend the rest of your weekends sitting on park benches with your ex! I'm still at a loss as to why Kali was in the wrong there and I can't stand her! Now missing Issac's stuff because it will be tense. WTF! When isn't Kali tense? What did you expect? I think it's Vee. I think she's unhappy and regretting the move and hormonal and possibly just loosing her mind a bit whenever Kali's name is mentioned.

On the plus side I did laugh out loud at Kali's incredulous response to being asked to smile THE WHOLE TIME. Oh Kali. You do you, Boo. You do you.

[HeySandyStrange]

 

I'm at a loss as to what is going on with Joe. His entire attitude the past two episodes has left me wondering what is happening when he gets home at night. I don't mean to imply that I think there is some huge scandal brewing, but he's acting weird and I don't actually think it has much to do with Kali for once.

 

With Jo, I think it could be any number of things working together. Kail&Javi's petty shit, I'm sure, isn't helping but he has been going through some huge life events: moving to a new state, buying a home, possibly quitting his job and starting/looking for another, dealing with child support/custody issues, another baby on the way, etc. I'm sure Vee is also stressed about everything at the moment and he is trying to be there for her as well. I don't put all the blame on Kail either, though with her attitude it is very tempting lol. I'm pretty sure Jo has gotten his shit together at this point and time, so I don't think the last few episodes indicate a bigger problem.

[BitterApple]

I think Jo is probably just under a lot of stress. He has a pregnant girlfriend who's hormonal and miserable, and likely resenting the hell out of him and he has a new mortgage hanging over his head. He's likely heard horror stories of guys taking it up the ass in family court and is petrified he won't be able to support Isaac and make ends meet for his own household. Throw in the fact that his ex wants their child living a lifestyle comparable to Prince George and it's no wonder the guy's a basket case.

Edited September 22, 2015 by BitterApple

[WhosThatGirl]

The thing with Kail and Vee is kind of confusing. Wasn't it just last season where she finally agreed to be nice to Vee and they went out to eat and she was all, "wow I was so rude for so long for no apparent reason"? Now she sees Vee and she's back to being rude again. I wonder if it's because Vee's having a baby now and that makes her mad or something. It can't be that the fact that Jo moved and Vee came with. That wasn't Vee's decision. In fact, I think Vee stated she would rather have not moved but she did it because she loves Jo. And also now she's having a baby and I think she would prefer if she was back with her family and friends. I think if Vee is getting upset about Kail, it's probably more then tension and vibe Kail gives off. I wouldn't want to be around someone who is not very nice to me either.

 

Listen On the Leah front, I get why she doesn't want to admit to having a problem on national tv but at the same time, the world already has a vague idea of what's probably going on. Her life is already open to the public and the more speculation happens, the worse the story gets. MTV is also at fault here for still filming while all this happens, they did this with Amber too. They kept filming her and it was very obvious she had a problem going on. 

[whydoiwatchtv]

I watched that exchange with Jo and Kail for the preview and he said how can he take care of his son when he can't even take care of himself. Wtf happened to him? Total reversal of fortune if that's true and would explain his anger and court fears. He got angry, cursed and called her an idiot. She's pretty smug with her houses, cars and trips but seriously Jo seems like he's broke. I feel bad for him if he's having hard times because he came from a good family but he did choose some of it. Never should have agreed to another child right now but it seems much more. They really need to stop airing these people's clusterfucks on tv.

Speaking of clusterfucks ending, is this week the season finale?

Edited September 22, 2015 by whydoiwatchtv

[ChickenFingers]

I'm concerned for Leah. As a recovering alcoholic I understand stubborn denial. Unfortunately for me, or fortunately, I had to face serious legal repercussions to finally see the truth of my addiction.

While Leah has zero obligation to tell the entire planet that she's an addict, my concern is that recovery involves certain behaviors and suggestions. One is to not enter into a relationship until we are a year sober. To ignore what has been found to work it just reminds me of our saying "half measures availed us nothing."

My wish for her is that she is lucky like me and does not end up killing someone or themselves before she sees the depth of her illness.

[ghoulina]

It was posted in the Kail thread that Jo didn't go to the graduation because he didn't even know about it. Kail didn't tell him, and clams he should have just seen a sign at the school telling parents about it.

[Darknight]

I think something happened between Jo and Karl. I hate when Mtv gives these girls a good edit. As for Jace. Babs is the better option than Jenelle. You see how Jenelle ignores kaiser. At least Babs doesn't do drugs drinks has every man in and out of her life. Babs isn't perfect but it's like choosing between two unfortunate situations. Even tho Babs raised Jenelle doesn't mean anything. Jenelle choose to do drugs, get pregnant, married, sign Jace over, be in abusive relationships, party, go to jail. Her mother didn't do those things for her. Jenelle did it to herself. Even kids raised by upper class families can do these things.

[BitterApple]

While Leah has zero obligation to tell the entire planet that she's an addict, my concern is that recovery involves certain behaviors and suggestions. One is to not enter into a relationship until we are a year sober. To ignore what has been found to work it just reminds me of our saying "half measures availed us nothing."

.

I agree. You'd think Leah's first priority would be getting her shit together so she can be a better mom to her girls. But nope, the first thing she does is find a new man and move him into her mother's house. I don't judge anyone who struggles with addiction, but I don't feel bad judging Leah when she continues to make bad choices that hurt her children.

[SPLAIN]

I'm at a loss as to what is going on with Joe. His entire attitude the past two episodes has left me wondering what is happening when he gets home at night. I don't mean to imply that I think there is some huge scandal brewing, but he's acting weird and I don't actually think it has much to do with Kali for once. First he thinks he's going to have to pay $5,000 in child support because of what? Where did he get those numbers? And why was he near tears talking to Kali about it? It's not like they've never been to court. And Kali was right. When they try to do things themselves(as Kali dictates) they fight(because she's a crazy bitch). So go to mediation and work it out officially so you don't spend the rest of your weekends sitting on park benches with your ex! I'm still at a loss as to why Kali was in the wrong there and I can't stand her! Now missing Issac's stuff because it will be tense. WTF! When isn't Kali tense? What did you expect?

 

 

 

I can't figure that mess out.  That whole episode was such a farce as far as Karl, Jo, and Javi's scenes are concerned. First, we haven't heard Jo's side of the story about what went down with either the graduation or the soccer game. We only saw Karl talking on a phone with no speaker. That was unusual. Usually we hear the other person talking on the phone when there is a conversation or there is texting going on where we can view the conversation. Second, there was no information whatsoever, other than Karl, about the graduation. I am not about to take what Karl says as truth. Girl has issues in the truth-telling department. There is definitely way more to this than we are being shown. Karl is going after him for money but claims on Twitter that he is out of a job. Now, to quote Muther Dawn, "That don't make sense." Either he is working or not. If he wasn't, Karl would have been at the courthouse STAT with her claims that Jo is not working and not paying her support. She would not be meeting up with him at the park.

 

I have a feeling Karl told Jo away from the cameras, he needs to pay a portion for Isaac's school. That may be the figure he is throwing out there when mentioning child support. Karl hasn't told him what it is she is wanting but, all he needs to do is to call Isaac's school to find out what his tuition is. With that information, he has probably come to the conclusion that Karl wants him to pay half of that amount. There is also the possibility that Karl is fine with Jo paying a certain amount to her without involving the courts but, Javi has been pressuring her to go to court. Javi has been putting his foot down quite a bit this season. He has likely been telling Karl that Jo should be paying more money. 

 

This whole situation reminds me of how Cory and Miranda felt when Leah and Jermy were going after Cory for more money and accusing him of not being a good father. Cory and Miranda were very upset. Rightly so. I think this is how Jo and Vee are feeling. Karl and Javi have a history of being vile towards Jo. Their credibility is lacking.

 

ETA:

 

It was posted in the Kail thread that Jo didn't go to the graduation because he didn't even know about it. Kail didn't tell him, and clams he should have just seen a sign at the school telling parents about it.

I should have read the Karl thread first. This is so Karl right there. Effing bitch.

Edited September 23, 2015 by SPLAIN

[FozzyBear]

It was posted in the Kail thread that Jo didn't go to the graduation because he didn't even know about it. Kail didn't tell him, and clams he should have just seen a sign at the school telling parents about it.

Ehhhh, he sort of should? I mean it would be nice if she did (she said she texted him a picture of the sign so who knows), but it really isn't Kali's responsibility. Joe moved so he could be more involved so there's nothing stopping him from doing that. If it were me and I'd moved to be closer to my kid I would probably have already introduced myself around the school and looked into what sort of Facebook group or whatever parents join rather than relying on my psychotic ex to dispense info at her will. Look I think Kali is a pain in the ass who could find something to bitch about in Camelot (is it weird between you and Arthur, Lancelot? I think he's jealous I'm not with him anymore. It's a round table? That's so dumb!), but part of being a more involved parent is actually being more involved. I think Joe is having some issues adjusting to being more of an everyday type of dad.

[SPLAIN]

I know that Jenelle makes for great train-wreck TV (and I won't lie, I love it, dude), but she needs to be cut from the show for the sake of Jace. This season they've shown that he's already acting out in school and has started wetting the bed.

I have to ask. How would removing Jenelle from this show, or canceling this show altogether affect Jace? Are you implying he would no longer be around for her to have a story line and be away from her since she wouldn't have an interest in him?

[SPLAIN]

Ehhhh, he sort of should? I mean it would be nice if she did (she said she texted him a picture of the sign so who knows), but it really isn't Kali's responsibility. Joe moved so he could be more involved so there's nothing stopping him from doing that. If it were me and I'd moved to be closer to my kid I would probably have already introduced myself around the school and looked into what sort of Facebook group or whatever parents join rather than relying on my psychotic ex to dispense info at her will. Look I think Kali is a pain in the ass who could find something to bitch about in Camelot (is it weird between you and Arthur, Lancelot? I think he's jealous I'm not with him anymore. It's a round table? That's so dumb!), but part of being a more involved parent is actually being more involved. I think Joe is having some issues adjusting to being more of an everyday type of dad.

This was also a pre-k or kindergarten graduation, correct? Perhaps Jo wasn't aware there are graduations for kids that young. Jo was likely settling in to his new home during that time. I think I heard a conversation about summertime coming up. With the school year coming to an end, Jo likely planned on getting more involved with school at the start of the new year.

Edited September 23, 2015 by SPLAIN

[FozzyBear]

This was also a pre-k or kindergarten graduation, correct? Perhaps Jo wasn't aware there are graduations for kids that young. Jo was likely settling in to his new home during that time. I think I heard a conversation about summertime coming up. With the school year coming to an end, Jo likely planned on getting more involved with school at the start of the new year.

I think preschool graduations are silly and I would not side eye any parent who chose not to take the day off work to attend. I don't actually think it's a big deal if Joe didn't want to go for whatever reason and he does legitimately have a ton of stuff going on right now. I was just saying that it really is his job to find out what's going on at school now that he lives in the same town and can be there. It's not up to Kali to keep him in the loop anymore. He needs to put himself in the loop if he wants more information.

[SPLAIN]

I think preschool graduations are silly and I would not side eye any parent who chose not to take the day off work to attend. I don't actually think it's a big deal if Joe didn't want to go for whatever reason and he does legitimately have a ton of stuff going on right now. I was just saying that it really is his job to find out what's going on at school now that he lives in the same town and can be there. It's not up to Kali to keep him in the loop anymore. He needs to put himself in the loop if he wants more information.

I agree. I wouldn't trust that thing called Isaac's mother to provide me with the proper information. My point is, it was the end of the school year and summer was coming up. Not sure that Jo felt there was much of anything going on at that time that he thought he needed to be aware of. He surely would be more aware of school activities and events now that he has moved closer and is able to pick up and drop off Isaac at school, if Karl is even letting that happen.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I think something happened between Jo and Karl. I hate when Mtv gives these girls a good edit. As for Jace. Babs is the better option than Jenelle. You see how Jenelle ignores kaiser. At least Babs doesn't do drugs drinks has every man in and out of her life. Babs isn't perfect but it's like choosing between two unfortunate situations. Even tho Babs raised Jenelle doesn't mean anything. Jenelle choose to do drugs, get pregnant, married, sign Jace over, be in abusive relationships, party, go to jail. Her mother didn't do those things for her. Jenelle did it to herself. Even kids raised by upper class families can do these things.

Jace's biggest hurdle isn't really Barb, it's Jenelle (and I guess the fact that Barb allows Jenelle so much access to him). I kind of wish Barb had cut her out of their lives so she wouldn't just keep coming back in & out, exposing Jace to all these loser guys, etc. But I understand how difficult that would have been for Barb to do.

When I think about what poor Kaiser is going to face with Jenelle and Nathan raising him (cough, I mean fighting over who is stuck with him, cough), any worries I have for Jace pale in comparison. He's the TM kid I'm most worried about.

As for Jo & Kail, yeah, there's some wonky editing going on there. If Jo looks depressed, well.....he just moved somewhere where he really only knows Kail & Javi. His girlfriend misses her family and friends. He moved into Kail's neighborhood and she moved out. He was probably sweating bullets when she told him she was moving that she was going to buy a house in Pennsylvania or something now that he'd moved to Delaware. He's probably just exhausted from her bullshit and doesn't even have the energy to engage with her anymore since it always ends in her freaking out.

I know lots of guys who are under the impression that child support = baby mama taking all your money/you're gonna get evicted cause all your money will go to baby mama/you're gonna have to get a second job, etc. I think they hear about women who get pregnant by wealthy men (and not so wealthy men) to get child support. They don't hear about the women who get just a few hundred dollars in child support on the news. They hear about Chris Brown paying $16k/mo or something and get worried. I think they just don't understand how it's determined and get scared. Jo just bought a house, moved (moving can be expensive in itself), and is about to have a new baby. He probably doesn't have the money for lawyers right now. He probably thinks he will get stuck paying part of Isaac's tuition or something. It's a shame because I feel like a lawyer could clear this up for him really quickly.

[leighroda]

I'm kinda torn, the not seeing the banner scenario makes a little more sense, how often does Jo even pick up Isaac anyway, Kail seemed pretty adement that she wanted to be the one who has Isaac during the week. Does anyone know what kind of school Isaac goes to? Is it a preschool or private school that has several different age groups? If it were me, I feel like I may not notice a banner, or stop long enough to realize it applies to my child. I don't give him a total pass because he does have some of the responsibility in keeping up with isaacs life, but I can also see Kail being passive aggressive and not being really forthcoming with info. I'm guessing even if she sent the pic of the banner no may have seen a pic from her and assumed it wasn't important... Again he does need to pay attention, but I can also imagine Kail blowing up his phone with non-important info. I wish Jo's mom would come back, I'd love to see her come to one of these things and rip into Kail.

[Maharincess]

I'm going to second with Corey and say that Leah needs more then 30 days. I'm a recovering addict and I have been doing outpatient for over a year now. 30 days is nothing..a year is when your finally out of early recovery.

Too bad Leah doesn't even acknowledge she is an addict.

Congratulations on your recovery.

I agree with your post.

I've said it before but a lot of people seem to think that getting clean is the hardest part of recovery but its not. Getting clean is the easy part, staying clean is the hard part and where the real work of recovery begins. Anybody can get clean in a controlled environment in 30 days but its what you do when you're out of that controlled environment that is the true test.

I just don't see Leah putting in that hard work.

[cheatincheetos]

Jenelle's friend reminds me of Elaine's weird actress roommate on Seinfeld a gazillion years ago. She had that fat lower lip hanging down too low like that. It's all I can see when I look at her. It's distracting and not at all attractive. Not that it's her fault, but still. Distracting.

I wonder if some people don't suffer a severe allergic reaction from having to sit in the room next to her questionable hygiene and  listening to her rants. I know that I would.

 

[Snarky McSnarky]

I think preschool graduations are silly and I would not side eye any parent who chose not to take the day off work to attend. I don't actually think it's a big deal if Joe didn't want to go for whatever reason and he does legitimately have a ton of stuff going on right now. I was just saying that it really is his job to find out what's going on at school now that he lives in the same town and can be there. It's not up to Kali to keep him in the loop anymore. He needs to put himself in the loop if he wants more information.

Did Kail really say she was proud of Isaac's accomplishments in friggin preschool?  What exactly did he accomplish?  Did he create a functional cold fusion apparatus or something?  Or was it that construction paper Christmas tree ornament?  

Edited September 23, 2015 by Bella Roche

[zenme]

cheatincheetos, what in the hell is that picture of?  An allergic reaction?  Or is it Javi post Kail smash?

 

I get that Jo should be responsible enough to figure out what's going on with Isaac and his graduation, and the sign on the door, but really, it's about Isaac.  I say it again, if that were me, I'd make sure my ex knew about my kid's graduation, because while I might not care personally if he makes it, I know that my child would.  It's important enough that I wouldn't want to take a chance of his not being there for my kid.  I just really hope there is more to the story.

[charmed1]

Ehhhh, he sort of should? I mean it would be nice if she did (she said she texted him a picture of the sign so who knows), but it really isn't Kali's responsibility. Joe moved so he could be more involved so there's nothing stopping him from doing that. If it were me and I'd moved to be closer to my kid I would probably have already introduced myself around the school and looked into what sort of Facebook group or whatever parents join rather than relying on my psychotic ex to dispense info at her will. Look I think Kali is a pain in the ass who could find something to bitch about in Camelot (is it weird between you and Arthur, Lancelot? I think he's jealous I'm not with him anymore. It's a round table? That's so dumb!), but part of being a more involved parent is actually being more involved. I think Joe is having some issues adjusting to being more of an everyday type of dad.

I agree. Kail is an all around asshole, but I'm not of the Jo-Hive opinion that any time Jo fucks up, it's because Kail or Vee must've done something to him. He's a grown man who chose to make two children. My ex didn't have primary custody, but he and his ex wife were both on the mailing and email lists for their kid's school. That way, it wasn't her responsibility to inform him of every little ceremony or parent/teacher conference at the school. Jo shouldn't rely on Kail to keep him informed of all Isaac's activities especially given her history of being an asshole. Hell, Javi is the soccer coach. Ask him for the schedule.

[DangerousMinds]

I think Jo is probably just under a lot of stress. He has a pregnant girlfriend who's hormonal and miserable, and likely resenting the hell out of him and he has a new mortgage hanging over his head. He's likely heard horror stories of guys taking it up the ass in family court and is petrified he won't be able to support Isaac and make ends meet for his own household. Throw in the fact that his ex wants their child living a lifestyle comparable to Prince George and it's no wonder the guy's a basket case.

I wonder if Vee has health insurance. One would assume so, especially since she's pregnant, but how is she paying for it? And they will need it for the baby, too. Well, she wanted so much to get pregnant, so there you go.

[MaddyMaeboxerbabe]

I wonder if Vee has health insurance. One would assume so, especially since she's pregnant, but how is she paying for it? And they will need it for the baby, too. Well, she wanted so much to get pregnant, so there you go.

I think Vee is under 26? Her parent (s) insurance would cover her.