NFL Thread

[DrSpaceman73]

1 hour ago, solarfire said:

There's lots of talk of Brady not retiring and returning to the Pats or some other team.  My question is:

WHY???

What does he have to prove?  That he's not a quarterback who throws a pick-six on the final play of his career? It's going to end some day and however it truly ends, it won't take away not one bit from his goat legacy. In fact, nothing will (sorry, triple negative. lol).

Exactly how many Super Bowls rings, MVP awards, All Pro accolades does he need?

There's something a bit psychotic about still trying to prove something.  Prove what?  He's already proven everybody wrong a million times over.  The pick-six doesn't change that.

Just saying...

 

Only thing left he can prove is he can win without BB.  And BB can (again) prove he can win without Brady. 

I agree with you.  I don't even like the guy but he should really just retire, would be his best move. 

But I don't see that happening.  My guess is he comes back for two more years with the Pats.  Alternative is he leaves to where McDaniels ends up going. 

Tua declared for the draft, no surprise. He will still go high despite his injury.  I wish he would fall to the Colts somehow at 13 but probably doesn't happen. 

Does Brees catch a lot of heat for his mediocre playoff record?  I don't listen to much sports talk anymore so I'm not sure, but for all his great stats he is a .500 playoff QB with one SB appearance and one win.  He is basically like Marino if Marino had won the SB he made it to. 

[solarfire]

5 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Only thing left he can prove is he can win without BB.  And BB can (again) prove he can win without Brady. 

I agree with you.  I don't even like the guy but he should really just retire, would be his best move. 

But I don't see that happening.  My guess is he comes back for two more years with the Pats.  Alternative is he leaves to where McDaniels ends up going. 

That's my guess too, Brady following McDaniels.  But for the most part, this hanging on thing almost never ends well.  It becomes embarrassing and painful to watch.  Like Peyton, who won the SB with the Broncos, they won in spite of him, a broken down warhorse.  Anyway, I'm exhausted and too tired to hate Brady anymore.

[DoctorAtomic]

I say Brady takes a lower pay contract to free up cap space and they sign a high quality WR.

[Irlandesa]

12 hours ago, mojoween said:

Man alive it doesn’t seem like McCarthy even gave the Giants a chance.  Pfffffft.

There's the old adage in the NFL that when you find your man, be it a free agent, coach or GM, you don't let him leave town. It doesn't always play out quite like that but that's what Jerry did. Had the Giants offered him the job after their interview, that's probably where he'd be working next year.

I can see why Dallas is an attractive offer for McCarthy.  It's a guaranteed job.  If he waited to hear back from Cleveland, Carolina or NY as they go through their longer process, he might lose out on this offer AND not get an offer from one of them either.  That'd leave him out of coaching for another year which he definitely did not want.  Jerry was decisive and pretty much signaled that McCarthy was maybe only one of 2 (or maybe 3) candidates he wanted to consider.  He didn't need a second interview or for him to justify why he deserved credit for the success of his teams.  It's good to be unquestionably wanted by your new boss, especially after being fired. 

Plus, it's a stable GM situation.  NY decided to keep their GM.  If the team doesn't turn around next year, he's probably gone and they'll hire a new GM.  New GMs usually want to bring their own coaches which could put the next coach in a precarious position.

 

2 hours ago, xaxat said:

Just a guess, (I don't know the guy) but I think it's because he is extraordinarily competitive. Even for world class athletes. He lives for it.

Hasn't he said that he wants to play until he's 45? That's where he is mentally. I remember Favre's last year.  He was playing for an underperforming Vikings team respective to his previous season.  That year, the Vikings were playing in an open air stadium because their new stadium was being built on the site of their old one. During the season he got injured.  He ended up spending multiple games standing on the sidelines in the freezing cold (as he got older, he handled it far worse than he used to).  It took all that to finally break him.

I think few of these very competitive guys retire because they want nothing more to do with football.  I believe most of the retirements come from no one wanting them on their teams any longer.  Or they retire because football finally beat their bodies into submission.

[mojoween]

SUCH good conversation, but what I really would love right now are details of Mike McCarthy’s pajama party with Jerry Jones.

[merylinkid]

Matt Rhule to the Panthers.   What is going on with the Giants that they can't even get their top choices to an interview?   It's one of the premier jobs in the League.   Ownership is reasonable.   Is it Daniel Jones as the QB of the future?   Coach him up or bring in your own guy.   Is it that Gettleman may be gone?   GMs can be gone at any time.   Something is up.   

[meowmommy]

5 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Motivation matters.
If I want to prove that I can do something for myself (building self-esteem) and no one else that is a positive. 

I have been involuntarily retired for the past two years and aside from the money issue, the biggest frustration for me is that I don't feel useful or valuable any more.  So you take someone like Tom Brady who's been on top of the world for almost 20 years, who has it in his head that with his fitness regime he can stay that way forever, and suddenly face him with evidence that he might be GOAT, but isn't at that level today, he's going to feel the need to prove his value, if only to himself. 

If he'd had a career-ending injury like Joe Theismann, he'd have had to face reality pretty quickly, but when his skills have just slipped a little bit and he doesn't have the same cast of supporting players, it's gotta be harder for him to accept.  The reality is also that a Tom Brady at sub-peak is still better than 80% of the starting QBs in the league, dammit.  

30 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

What is going on with the Giants that they can't even get their top choices to an interview? 

Who's left?  Josh McDaniels?  Or <gulp> Jason Garrett?

[mojoween]

Apparently, who is left, is Joe Judge.  WhoTF is this guy?

[BlackberryJam]

5 hours ago, mojoween said:

SUCH good conversation, but what I really would love right now are details of Mike McCarthy’s pajama party with Jerry Jones.

What makes you think Jerry doesn't sleep in the raw?

[mojoween]

34 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

What makes you think Jerry doesn't sleep in the raw?

Why you gotta ruin it?  There is not enough brain bleach in the WORLD.

[BlackberryJam]

7 minutes ago, mojoween said:

Why you gotta ruin it?  There is not enough brain bleach in the WORLD.

Either that or  a flannel footie pajama onesie with little cowboy hats all over it.

[roamyn]

Well, it looks like the Browns is the only HC job available.

I'd like to see Eric Bienamyi of KC.  I thought he deserved the chance with a team last year.  I also wouldn't mind Urban (he's a friend of the Haslams), but I don't see it with his health issues.

And who the F is Joe Judge?  A line coach?  Didn't they learn from the Browns implosion this year that 3 months of being OC does not a head coach make.  Was the Jason Garrett as OC a requisite?  Because he doesn't have much there.

13 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I think the Browns would be better off if they were able to try and pry Belichick away from the Patriots.  Reportedly Belichick has a good relationship with Haslam.  Offer a few draft picks in compensation to the Patriots and then let Belichick have complete control of the Browns.

We ABSOLUTELY do not want Bellicheck back in Cleveland.  We despise him for all the trashing he did of Bernie.  Plus he sucked as a coach here.

[merylinkid]

2 hours ago, mojoween said:

Apparently, who is left, is Joe Judge.  WhoTF is this guy?

Judge not lest ye be judged.

I like the Browns making a thorough search with ANYONE who will come interview.    I distrust teams who get laser focused on ONE guy to the point of interviewing one token Rooney Rule guy before hiring "their" guy."   You never know who you are missing out on.   considering this is one of the biggest decisions you make about a team you would think they would want to be deliberate about  it.    

[roamyn]

6 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

That was more than a quarter of a century ago.  A lot has changed since then. 

The Browns need an established coach if they expect to win anything.  IMO, anyone with no head coaching experience would be a fool to take the Browns' job.  There is too much turnover at the position for a non-established person to risk taking the job.

 

We Cleveland fans have LOOOONNNNGGG memories!  And Bernie was a beloved kind of hometown boy who wanted to play for Cleveland.

We hate the Yankees for beating us every Oct in the AL Pennant (except '54, thanks Willie Mays) and I wasn't even born in the 50s!

We still hate Denver for the 1980s.  Bo Schlembecher for leaving to go to TTUN in the late 60s.  Every media from the 1960s-- who disparage/ed our great City.  

Heck, we still hate That State Up North for the Toledo "war" 150+ years ago!

[benteen]

I was hoping for Rhule or McCarthy but as a Giants fan, I'm fine with Joe Judge.  It's a big gamble to be sure.  But he's young, well-regarded and coached under both Belichick and Saban for many years.  Maybe the Giants will get lucky, we'll see.  He'll be a CEO type which I prefer. 

I don't want to hear about him being another Belichick coach.  Belichick's most recent coaches have been doing pretty good.  Bill O'Brien saved Penn State and had a winning record there under difficult circumstances, Vrabel made the playoffs with the Titans in year two and even Brian Flores bounced back from a terrible start with the Dolphins to finish strong.  All three of those guys have beaten Belichick in the past year.  That doesn't mean Judge will be as successful as any of those guys but being a one of Belichick's former assistant no longer means he's going to automatically fail as a head coach. 

I'm glad Jason Garrett wasn't hired as head coach but think he would make a good coordinator.

Edited January 7, 2020 by benteen

[Fukui San]

Judge is New England’s Special Teams coach of some time and added WR coach to his duties this year. He was a good Special Teams coach, though the passing game struggled this year for reasons beyond his control. 

His being hired was a surprise, but so was Brian Flores. 

[JTMacc99]

Judge does seem to be a decent risk to take. It's interesting that he was the special teams coordinator as opposed to offense or defense. It probably helped him have the extra bandwidth to work with BB in New England (as is being reported) on things like roster building and other things that are part of the head coaching job. Over on one of the sites I visit, the guys who covers the Giants reported that he got an email from the guy who covers the Patriots that said, "I did not see this one coming. But that’s a no bullshit coach the Giants are getting, and an up-and-comer Belichick thinks highly of."

It is what it is at this point. I do think the Giants liked Rhule, but when the Panthers gave him 7 years, $60 million with incentives to get it to $70 million, the Giants politely declined to match it (which they would have to have done over the phone pre-interview.)

[doodlebug]

3 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

That was more than a quarter of a century ago.  A lot has changed since then. 

The Browns need an established coach if they expect to win anything.  IMO, anyone with no head coaching experience would be a fool to take the Browns' job.  There is too much turnover at the position for a non-established person to risk taking the job.

 

Not long enough for us to want another go-round with Bellicheck.  He was an arrogant puissant back then, just as he is now; except he was a mediocre coach with a mediocre team at the time.  With all his success in NE, they can pretend he's just a loveable curmudgeon. Cleveland has no such illusions and, no matter how palsy walsy he is with the Haslams, most Cleveland fans wouldn't take Bellicheck on a silver platter.  The Browns are upsetting enough without adding that jackhole to the mix.

[Sew Sumi]

I dunno about that one @icemiser69. In Ohio, they certainly know that Harbaugh couldn't beat Ohio State, like ever. That doesn't look so hot on the resume.

Edited January 7, 2020 by Sew Sumi

[doodlebug]

1 minute ago, Sew Sumi said:

I dunno about that one @icemiser69. In Ohio, they certainly know that Harbaugh couldn't beat Ohio State, like ever. That doesn't look so hot on the resume.

I haven't seen anything from Harbaugh that makes me think he is anywhere near qualified to coach in the NFL,  Mediocre coaches are a dime a dozen and the Browns have no problem finding them; they don't need to waste time on Harbaugh.

[Sew Sumi]

Agreed. He'd be a terrible hire.

[mojoween]

But Jim Harbaugh did go to the Super Bowl, did he not?  He had more success in San Fran that he has had in Michigan by far.  And he did whatever it is he did to get Andrew Luck to say at Stanford for another year.  He needs to leave Michigan before he is run out.

[xaxat]

Hey, Jay Z! You wanted to be the voice of social justice for the NFL? What's your opinion on the lack of diversity amongst ownership, management and head coaches?

***crickets***

I feel bad for Eric Bieniemy. He's had multiple interviews over the last two years. Despite his history of being from the Andy Reid coaching tree (Harbaugh, Pederson, Rivera etc.) His role developing one of the most dynamic QBs in the league (Mahomes) NFL ownership has decided to hire fired college coaches (Kingsbury) and wide receiver coaches like Judge.

He's the token African American interview and that must really suck. 

[roamyn]

Khaki Pants is a MI man.  In Ohio, the Buckeyes are a religion.  They wouldn’t take him on golden platter.  Unless u grew up in either of those states, you can’t understand the animosity, or distrust we have for each other.  Desmond Howard is STILL considered a traitor.

I absolutely agree with @xaxat, re:  Bienamyi.  It’s BS he hasn’t gotten his chance yet,

[AimingforYoko]

2 hours ago, xaxat said:

He's the token African American interview and that must really suck. 

I don't agree with Stephen A. too much, but he's dead on here.

 

[mojoween]

If Joe Judge were smart, he would figure a way to get some synergy with Aaron Judge.  Fastest way for him to endear himself to the NY fan base.

[Bastet]

13 hours ago, mojoween said:

Apparently, who is left, is Joe Judge.  WhoTF is this guy?

 

[merylinkid]

Kingsbury was fired from Texas Tech because he was terrible.   Not another college took a flyer on him.   Only Chip Kelly (!!!) was willing to hire him as an assistant.   He actually accepted the job, then 2 weeks later took the Arizona job.   Kingsbury was a terrible hire.   They only took him because of his experience with Kyler Murray.    

A lot of HCs don't have HC experience before they get hired by the NFL.   Otherwise, you just get retreads who don't suck but aren't amazing either.    

Heck if you want a coach with HC experience then Jason Garrett would have been a better choice than Judge.    I'll take Judge thank you very much.

[Lamb18]

Kevin Stefan, OC for Vikings, is interviewing for the Cleveland HC job.

And the Zimmer/Dallas talk was just speculation, thank goodness.

[Danny Franks]

On ‎1‎/‎7‎/‎2020 at 1:59 AM, DrSpaceman73 said:

Only thing left he can prove is he can win without BB.  And BB can (again) prove he can win without Brady. 

I honestly don't think he's going to be able to prove that. He's spent his entire career in an organisation that is modelled on the ideas of one man - Belichick - and going anywhere else will be a huge culture shock for him. Especially if it's to one of the more slipshod organisations in the NFL.

I don't think Brady has the physical talent left to overcome whatever coaching and/or talent deficits a new team will have. The Patriots offense has been geared specifically to his strengths, for years.

He's welcome to try, but I envisage it being an ignominious end to his career.

Belichick winning without Brady, though? I see that happening.

[DoctorAtomic]

4 hours ago, merylinkid said:

A lot of HCs don't have HC experience before they get hired by the NFL.   Otherwise, you just get retreads who don't suck but aren't amazing either.

That's it right there. You get a guy who goes Jeff Fisher for a majority of the time, once and a while you catch a couple of breaks and get into the playoffs. Just enough for fans to keep coming. 

When is the last time you saw a hire where the owner was like, 'this year we're going 1-15, and we're on a 3-5 year plan to be competing for the division title and first round bye.'

Or you get an owner that says 'you know what? I'm sick of all the same guys all the time. I'm going to hire someone out the box.' I think SF did that a while ago with Singletary and it didn't work out so it can't happen ever again ever.

Based on Brady's FB post it doesn't sound to me like he's going anywhere. Even with all the scrutiny as social media invades all our lives, maybe him and Bill actually get along a like each other. You look at a Parcells, he liked to give players the business all the time, but they loved him. 

 

[Fukui San]

Brady's made it clear that he wants to play. What's unclear is if he'll play at a price the Pats would agree to, and/or if the Pats want to pay the salary that Brady would feel he deserves, and/or what another team would outbid the Pats. It's a lot of moving parts.

[xaxat]

3 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

When is the last time you saw a hire where the owner was like, 'this year we're going 1-15, and we're on a 3-5 year plan to be competing for the division title and first round bye.'

Miami, this year. But I understand your point.

[EyewatchTV211]

On 1/7/2020 at 2:20 PM, merylinkid said:

Judge not lest ye be judged.

I like the Browns making a thorough search with ANYONE who will come interview.    I distrust teams who get laser focused on ONE guy to the point of interviewing one token Rooney Rule guy before hiring "their" guy."   You never know who you are missing out on.   considering this is one of the biggest decisions you make about a team you would think they would want to be deliberate about  it.    

This is a good point and actually suggests the Giants went about it in a decent way, whether or not people agree on the person and not being able to predict the future. Many believed that they had a "favorite" or a few favorites. Yet apparently Judge came in and wowed them in the interview, and got the good reference from BB. There's different reports on what happened with the supposed favorite, but doubtful anyone can say that Judge was an obvious backup option all along or another favorite pre-interview. So they had enough of an open mind to really put weight on the interviews instead of just going through the motions and picking the person intended all along. 

Edited January 8, 2020 by VMepicgrl

[meowmommy]

3 hours ago, Fukui San said:

Brady's made it clear that he wants to play. What's unclear is if he'll play at a price the Pats would agree to, and/or if the Pats want to pay the salary that Brady would feel he deserves, and/or what another team would outbid the Pats. It's a lot of moving parts.

Is he really ready to start over, on some crumbling team, with a HC and OC he's never worked with?  Most of the good teams are pretty happy with their current QB.  The bad teams aren't going to be able to protect him the way he's been used to.

Joe Namath in LA, Johnny Unitas in San Diego, Brett Favre in Minnesota/New York.   When you've been with the same team for decades, you should finish there.  Peyton Manning was different because it was the Colts who gave up on him.  And the Broncos defense that completely carried him to a title.

4 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

You look at a Parcells, he liked to give players the business all the time, but they loved him. 

Did they really?  I know they respected him and appreciated his results, but every time I've heard Phil Simms talk about Parcells, it's in tones that suggest PTSD.

 

[DoctorAtomic]

Bledsoe and Martin seemed to love him, and most players stuck around.

[Fukui San]

4 hours ago, meowmommy said:

Is he really ready to start over, on some crumbling team, with a HC and OC he's never worked with?  Most of the good teams are pretty happy with their current QB.  The bad teams aren't going to be able to protect him the way he's been used to.

I think the conversation is going/will go like this:

Bill: We want you back, but at this price. (Salary the size of Jacoby Brissett in Indy)

Brady: No, I'm done taking discounts.

Bill: OK, then you're welcome to look around.

I think there may be teams that can convince themselves that adding Brady at his asking price would be  worth it as they have teams currently being held back by their QB play.  Tampa and Indy are the first teams that come to mind. Good, offensive minded coaches. Some good pieces around the QB. Poor, or limited, QB play.

The Raiders and Chargers have been brought up as places that could use Brady as a ticket selling draw in addition to his qualities as QB. Whether it'd be as good a fit footballwise remains to be seen.

Now, I'm not saying that any of these possibilities would be advisable or good, it's just that Brady wants to keep playing and Belichick may not want Brady to play for him at a premium cost.

The possibility also exists that Kraft would side with Brady and Belichick would go. That also seems inadvisable, but we're in uncharted territory to be sure.

[DoctorAtomic]

See, I think he will take the discount. 

[Fukui San]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

See, I think he will take the discount. 

Time will tell.  When he agreed to the last one-year contract, he insisted that he be a true free agent this offseason with no Franchise Tag possible. So he's not as married to the Patriots' future as we are used to. It's not as if the Patriots' offense was stocked with the talent that would let a QB to shine this season.

[Irlandesa]

9 hours ago, VMepicgrl said:

This is a good point and actually suggests the Giants went about it in a decent way, whether or not people agree on the person and not being able to predict the future.

I don't necessarily agree honing in on one person is always bad when it concerns a coach like Andy Reid, Mike McCarthy or, should they become available in the future, Bill Bellicheck, Mike Tomlin or Sean Payton.  I know only one of those coaches has more than one SB win but they all have evidence of sustained success over long periods of time. 

That's going to say more about their potential than being being wowed in a half day interview.  So interviewing five, ten or fifteen people won't necessarily lead to picking the best coach because the skillset of selling yourself in an interview and actually doing the job is pretty different.

 

[mojoween]

If the Chargers come calling, and Gisele wants to move to California, Brady’s going to be wearing a lightning bolt next season.

[Danny Franks]

I don't think Belichick wants Brady back. He wanted to get rid of him a couple of years ago, and move forward with Garoppolo, but Brady and Kraft made sure that particular struggle went their way.

Belichick doesn't seem to be contemplating retirement, and he knows that he'll have to do without Brady at some point. I think he just wants to pull the trigger on that now, while he's got a great defense in place and can build the offense around a young guy.

Some people have suggested he likes that Stidham guy enough to give him an opportunity, others have suggested he might get Rosen or another young QB in the league who needs to be 'fixed'.

[JTMacc99]

17 hours ago, VMepicgrl said:

Yet apparently Judge came in and wowed them in the interview, and got the good reference from BB. There's different reports on what happened with the supposed favorite, but doubtful anyone can say that Judge was an obvious backup option all along or another favorite pre-interview. So they had enough of an open mind to really put weight on the interviews instead of just going through the motions and picking the person intended all along. 

John Mara said this: "He knows what winning looks like and should look like. His exposure and experience in New England and Alabama have helped shape his philosophy of building a winning program and culture. We are thankful that he has accepted the responsibility to lead our team.”

It's a good thing to hear from the ownership of the Giants. Getting a head coach in there who will from the top down get everyone focused in on winning is pretty much what needs to happen there. 

[DoctorAtomic]

No ping pong tables tho. 

[meowmommy]

6 hours ago, mojoween said:

If the Chargers come calling, and Gisele wants to move to California, Brady’s going to be wearing a lightning bolt next season.

Do the Chargers want to swap out one talented but aging and presumably over the hill QB for another?

And even though we're now going into year 3, I read your comment and thought, does Gisele want to live in San Diego?  I still can't get it in my head that they're in LA, and apparently, neither can anyone in LA.

[JTMacc99]

Brady should go be the back up in Philadelphia. Get a couple months off holding a clipboard, then step in around playoff time.

[basiltherat]

I have always thought that Brady's "hometown discount" was just a smoke screen because Kraft made a deal with him to give him shares of ownership in the team once Brady retired.

[Lamb18]

I just finished watching the Patriots-Titans game. I thought the referees enjoyed calling those delay of game penalties in the 4th quarter. His tone of voice had a bit of glee in it.

[Lamb18]

I'm listening to the Vikings/SF game. So far, so good. Oh good, our defense stepped up and sacked Garuppola. I think Vikings are figuring out how to handle SF. I hope those aren't famous last words.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Lamb18

[Lamb18]

Halftime and it's 14-10, SF. It's not a bad score for being behind but the Vikings offense is not doing well. This may be game that needs to be won by the dense. Maybe it will be better in the second half. Anyhow I'd rather lose in a game like this than a big blowout.