NFL Thread

[FuriousStyles]

Peyton could have his Papa Murphy pizza laced with HGH up the kazoo but his " aw shucks " genial persona makes his fans shrug off any allegations.

His fans will do that just as any fan of any athlete would most likely do. But I dont think people who are neutral about Peyton or who generally like him would give him a pass. If it were ever proven that Peyton took PED's (and then lied about it) he'd get ripped to shreds like everyone else. Now would the sports media rip him? I dont know. When this story first hit I already heard excuses being made about his 4 neck surgeries, and him *possibly* taking the drugs just as a way to recover and not for a competitive advantage. Whatever.

I think the main reason that story didnt get a lot of traction is because I think the guy who said he had knowledge of whatever nefarious dealings by Manning admitted right away he made the whole thing up? But I think if there was any truth to it, the AP, Deadspin, TMZ, and every other publication would most certainly find something and they might still.

[ganesh]

Manning is a big enough national name that if he really did do something illegal, mainstream news would run with the story and he'd be in a lot of it. 

[DrSpaceman73]

One final time, the NFL NEVER asked for Brady's cell phone or even for possession of his cell phone. They asked him to print off any texts between those who might be involved, not anything personal, and turn them over to the NFL. They even told him they would trust him to do so, he could do it himself. He refused.

And he also destroyed evidence. Plus this is something everyone glosses over and I have never seen asked. Did he tell the NFL issue during the investigation he destroyed his cell phone? It doesn't seem he did, because it was not in the initial report. That came out much later. I can't imagine that being just left out of the report if they knew it. There were extensive conversations it seems about the content of his cell phone and it doesn't seem he told them what talking about this before the report came out that he had destroyed it, the day before he was to testify. Destroying potential evidence by anyone accused would at the very least legally land you in trouble.

And there are two separate parts to the Brady/NE allegations, the legal part and the public perception portion. He handled the legal part great. Hired the best lawyers, denial, gave as little information as possible, let everyone else handle it in the courts, had Kraft battling for him from a league owner standpoint, let the underlings handling the balls do most of the testimony, basically take the fall for you, have their lives turned over instead of yours. To most non-Pats fans, though, that also screws you in the public perception portion of it. Taking the attitude of "you/the NFL can't prove it" doesn't prove you didn't do it or had knowledge of it. And continuously denying any relevance of any evidence brought up doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Legally, sure, he won out, so far. Publically, it's a different story. THough honestly I doubt he or the Pats, outside NE, and no one in NE would ever care what he did as long as they keep winning, care what anyone thinks publically. It's the one thing he and Goodell have in common. They don't care what any of us think. It's why for many fans this is such a nauseating story. Pick the lesser of two soulless evils to root for. 99% of the fight by Brady he left to others. He made a crafted statement that was released, took a few easy questions of no significance, other than that let others fight for him over it. Including his dad. I don't care what his dad says. what is any dad going to so in that situation? I do know Peyton's dad has never once publically had to or been asked to defend him in any way, and he has actual knowledge of the NFL, rather than just selling insurance in California.

Edited January 24, 2016 by DrSpaceman73

[caracas1914]

One final time, the NFL NEVER asked for Brady's cell phone or even for possession of his cell phone. .

If we're going by the NFL, they never actually provided evidence that the majority of the balls were deflated to a significant degree or that the weather didn't play into it , etc. Their report was torn apart by outside experts.

I have no qualms admitting Brady treated the whole thing with barely veiled contempt and, yes, arrogance, but the way the NFL handled the whole thing I can't blame him for that. The whole thing got out of hand because Goodell decided that this was the line in the sand he was going to stake his authority on and Brady said " fuck no."

If people think Brady is guilty as sin, that's one thing, but I honestly can't blame him from stonewalling what he though was a joke investigation.

The problem was the NFL overreached. Even folks who are not Brady/NE advocates realized that Brady had to fight legally when the report/fine came out, the NFL gave him literally no choice.

If say, Goodell had slapped a one game suspension or a monetary fine to Brady on the grounds he did not cooperate fully with an ongoing NFL investigation, which is clear by refusing to turn over his cell phone records, that at least would have been based on something everyone could see. Brady/NE might have reluctantly swallowed the fine but instead we have the situation where everyone came out losing.

Edited January 24, 2016 by caracas1914

[ganesh]

"Torn apart" is generous. Shredding of any credibility would work for me too. 

 

I wouldn't even say Brady stonewalled. He, or any private citizen, is under no obligation to prove themselves. Public opinion was largely based on not liking Brady, and yeah, he didn't do himself any favors. There's no lawyer worth their license who would advise him to turn over his phone or provide any information in text messages. You get a court order to subpoena his phone records. You pick out the suspicious numbers/times and argue for a court order for Brady to legally turn over the relevant data. Then, if he doesn't do it, he goes to jail. That's how it works in this country. 

 

The NFL fined and docked the Pats draft picks. Kraft was like, "ok, we accept that. let's move on." Then they specifically suspended Brady. You have to fight that. Otherwise, you're letting the NFL arbitrarily penalize any player for anything. Which, again, is the union's fault for letting that in the CBA. 

[Clark Kent]

If we're going by the NFL, they never actually provided evidence that the majority of the balls were deflated to a significant degree or that the weather didn't play into it , etc. Their report was torn apart by outside experts.

 

"Torn apart" is a kind term, considering the devastating New York Times article yesterday, stating that scientists from MIT, University of Chicago, Carnegie Mellon, University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, Boston College, and Bowdoin all agree that the Patriots didn't deflate the footballs.  (The MIT researcher has a very compelling youtube video regarding what he believes actually happened.)  I feel like anyone who still believes the "science" put forth in the Wells report after looking at what those (actual) scientists have to say is in climate-change-denier territory.

In my view, it makes the whole ordeal looks even more absurd; the NFL is intent on asking the 2nd Circuit to enforce the collective bargaining agreement, which would allow the NFL to punish Brady for acts that several scientists at leading universities are now on record as saying didn't happen.  It makes me think it will be an easy 'affirm' of the trial court decision by the appellate court.  But who knows.

[Calvada]

With my team out, I'm reduced to rooting for former Wisconsin Badgers.  Three of them on the teams left, I believe.  Punter Brad Nortman on Panthers, but I can't root for a punter.  So it's between James White (Patriots) and Owen Daniels (Broncos) and James got his SB ring last year, so I'm rooting for Owen, and by default, the Broncos.  I'm not really thrilled with that, but what can I do?  It's my standard rule once the Packers are out of it.

 

And please, can we have more penalties and challenges?  It's our last dose of Ed Hochuli this season, after all.  ​(Calvada says sarcastically)  You know Ed is pissed that the weather is not warmer, so he could be in short sleeves.​

Edited January 24, 2016 by Calvada

[ganesh]

#TABLETGATE!!!!

[Rick Kitchen]

I love that when Derek Wolfe does something, the Denver crowd does wolf howls.

[MargeGunderson]

I'm a Patriots fan but I picked Denver to win in the football pool (I'm a realist above all). I don't know how to feel about the game!

[ganesh]

I'm surprised at how well the Pats defense is playing. They are keeping this within one score and came up with big stops. I think that Pats' fourth down call was out of desperation though. The OL is just a tuna melt at this point. They've been duct tape and chicken wire for most of the season and the clock is near to striking midnight. Still one score though.

[Bastet]

YES!!

 

Great job by the Denver defense all game (although they gave me a freakin' heart attack giving up that TD on fourth and the game).

Edited January 24, 2016 by Bastet

[mojoween]

Mother fuck. Well now it doesn't matter what happens next, I will not root against Peyton.

TAKE THAT MEDIA! Didn't give the Broncos a chance, did you.

[Jx223]

Denver's defense did a great job of pressuring Tom Brady throughout this game. They were bothering him all throughout the game and disrupting the Patriot's offense. They had a big impact and deserve a lot of credit for Denver winning. They have been terrific in general this year.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Jx223

[FuriousStyles]

THANK GOD. Fitting this game would come down to the wire on a miracle pitch and catch from Brady to Gronk, but Denver's D held up. I was hoping that missed extra point would come back to haunt them and it did!

I couldnt be more happy because no matter what I can just sit back and enjoy the last two games of the season. I like all the major players (Peyton, Cam, Carson, Larry Fitz) and would be happy to see any of them win a SB.

YES! YES! YES! WOOHHHOOO.

[ebk57]

Fuckity fuck fuck fuck.

 

That is all

[Calvada]

I think the Patriots and their fans are deflated.

 

C'mon, you were all thinking it!

 

[Bastet]

Watching Brady spend so much time on his ass was pure joy for me.  I'm giddy.

[AimingforYoko]

The Patriots are like vampires, you have to put a stake through their effing heart.

Very happy for Peyton, but the perverse side of me wanted to see Goodell hand the Lombardi to Kraft and Brady.

[merylinkid]

Peyton deserves one more chance.   Brady will be back.

 

At least now we don't have to wonder what will happen if Goodell has to hand the Lombardi Trophy to Belichek and Brady this year.   That is one happy man.   

[crimsongrl]

OMAHA!

I'm watching the Super Bowl this year!

[basiltherat]

... to the tune of the Nationwide jingle ...

Suck upon THAT, Bel-li-check !

As Pretty Boy Brady comforts Baby Huey Gronk, let us rejoice in the fact that GOOD has triumphed over EVUL !

[ebk57]

The Patriots are like vampires, you have to put a stake through their effing heart.

Very happy for Peyton, but the perverse side of me wanted to see Goodell hand the Lombardi to Kraft and Brady.

 

I'm no fan of the Patriots (although I do admit to hating Peyton Manning), but that is what I've wanted to see all season.  And now that won't happen.  Fuck.

[ganesh]

I thought the Pats should have kicked to go 15-20 because their defense was playing really well. Take the points where you can if your offense is struggling. Then you don't have to go for 2. But you can't guarantee that Denver wouldn't have gotten at least another FG. As it was the Pats defense got the 3 and out and preserved the field position.

 

It came down to a 2 point conversion on the last play of the game after 2 of the best plays ever by Gronk. You can't ask for much more. I think Simms said that this defense might have been the best Brady's ever faced. I think the Giants defense in the undefeated season might have been better, but that would be it. 

 

I know Manning "deserves" to go out on top, but deserve doesn't have anything to do with it. He earned this win though. 

Edited January 24, 2016 by ganesh

[Ohwell]

Well now I can enjoy the SB now that Tom Baby and the Patriots aren't going to be in it.

[bmasters9]

Well now I can enjoy the SB now that Tom Baby and the Patriots aren't going to be in it.

My thoughts exactly! I'll definitely be in on 50 no matter who does it in this NFC Final (although I'd love for Carolina to do it)!

[xaxat]

When the game ended, I think those photographers got to Manning almost as fast as Miller was getting to Brady.

 

I know Miller was (kind of) joking when he said he only needed a second to get to Brady, but it's not bragging if you can back it up. And he really did.

[AimingforYoko]

Miller's a FA, isn't he? He's going to get Rakim'd (Paid in Full).

[Bastet]

Yikes.  If this keeps up, Arizona better hope they have a second half like Seattle did last week (only, you know, with one more TD), and that Carolina has a second half like last week, too.

 

I don't dislike Carolina, and I think much of the pearl-clutching about Cam Newton is some racist shit, but I just can't get excited about them for some reason.  Plus I love Carson Palmer and Larry Fitzgerald, so I'm rooting for Arizona.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Bastet

[ganesh]

I was rooting for the Pats, but I've got nothing against Manning. I don't have hate in sports because I think that's just a waste of energy. This game didn't have many flags at all, and the officials weren't a factor. 

I remember a long time ago where they were trying to set up Marino/Montana as a big rivalry. That never happened. We got a real rivalry between HOF QBs for a decade with Brady and Manning. 

[cattykit]

The two scariest things in the Patriots-Broncos game:  the Denver defense and Annabel Bowlen's face.

Edited January 25, 2016 by cattykit

[redfish]

I'm perverse, but I'm glad that Brady/Patriots lost. Success/Failure has never made Brady become a better person, not that I'm expecting him to. Athletic ability and good personality does not always go together but it would be nice for a change for an athlete not to be a jerk. But I've always thought he was kind of a dick, especially when he dumped his pregnant at the time girlfriend for the hot model.

 

Also anything that prevents Belichick to be happy is good.

Edited January 25, 2016 by redfish

[topanga]

What happened to the Tuck Rule? I'm not a fan of this rule at all, but Carson Palmer clearly pump faked, pulled the ball back in, and then the Panther defender knocked it from his hands. Isn't that what exactly what happened to Tom Brady in the AFC championship game? 

 

That being said, the Panthers look great and the Cardinals look terrible. Just like the first 1/2 of the Panthers-Seahawks game last week. 

Edited January 25, 2016 by topanga

[rallymantis]

I did say, when the missed PAT...uh...missed..."If they lose by one point, I will never stop laughing."

Eh...more or less, right?  Odds on SG taking a separate flight?

[stealinghome]

What a dumpster fire of an AFC title game. The NFC title game may well determine the Super Bowl champion, because both the Broncos and Patriots looked uninspiring for much of the day. If the Broncos don't play much, much better on O, they're gonna get stomped by the NFC champs, and same would have gone for the Pats.

 

As a Pats fan, what a frustrating game. Belichick picks the worst times in the world to lose his damn mind and drop his "take the points, always" conservative mentality...in a low-scoring, grind it out game, you kick the field goal every.single.time. Every.single.time. And Gostowski...no words. Ugh. I knew they were going to lose that game the second he missed that PAT. That's just how things roll for the Pats at Mile High. (Also: commence second-guessing tanking the last quarter of the season and losing home field advantage...now.) Not taking anything away from Denver, because their D was insane and scary today, but it's frustrating to feel like for all that they played so crappy, the Pats still ought to have won that game, or at least taken it to OT.

 

In the offseason, more than anything else, the Pats have GOT to get O-line help. They need to release Kline and Cannon asap--I really don't know why the coaches have love affairs going with those two guys, because they are reliably turnstiles who are going to get our aging QB killed soon. And in the game, why don't you put Andrews in at C and kick Stork out to G just to see if changing it up helps? Did Andrews run over BB's dog or something?

[mojoween]

I believe after the Tuck Rule game the rule was changed so it no longer applies.

[magdalene]

I don't like either Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. And Manning played like what - only a few games  - this season. I don't think he deserves to win the Superbowl sitting on the side lines most of the season while other players did the work getting to the post season.  At least Tom Brady worked hard all season long.  That said my heart is not bleeding for Brady, surely he has enough Superbowl victories.

 

I guess I will be rooting for the team the Broncos are playing against.

[AimingforYoko]

Does anybody want the ball?

[BitterApple]

As a Pats fan I wish I could bitch slap the O-line for standing around like a bunch of freaking statues while Brady was getting clobbered. I don't know what Belichick was thinking going for it twice on fourth down when we hadn't done jack offensively the entire day.

Anyhoo, congrats to Denver on the win, but I'm predicting a Seahwaks-style blowout when they play Cam and the Panthers in the Super Bowl.

[twoods]

I guess we know which Carson Palmer showed up tonight. Brutal. Forcing that throw when they can only be down by two scores going into the half?

Great game for the Broncos, but their defense probably wanted to clobber the offense. They stop the Pats twice on fourth down and can't even muster a first down. The Broncos are sure to lose badly to the Panthers, but at least it's the first SB in a while that I didn't hate one of the teams. Would love to see Manning go out on top, but the Panthers are too good.

[merylinkid]

Friend who does not follow sports at all has been asking me for weeks who is playing in the Super Bowl.   I've been explaining the playoffs to her as patiently as I could.  Today I told her we would know tonight.   She asked me who the choices were.  I told her.   She asked me which matchup I wanted.   I actually don't care.  Any combination would make me happy.   Good storylines, good players.  Okay I can't stand Richardson, the Panther's owner, but that's how hard I have to look to find someone not to like.   

 

I did pick the Cards to go for the NFC because of sentiment.   But that's the only reason I want them to win.   Which does not look to likely at this point.  Having both #1 seeds play is fine too.   

[stealinghome]

If not the Pats, I really wanted Fitzgerald to get a ring because he's been such a class act his whole career, but, well....

Carson Palmer is brutal.

[pennben]

As a Bears fan, I'm all in with Carolina.  I want Ron Rivera to get a ring as a coach (and screw Lovie for letting him go).  I want Peanut Tillman to get a ring (such a fantastic guy, I wish he weren't injured earlier this year). I want Greg Olsen to get a ring (such a great guy and it broke my heart when he was traded). 

 

I want Cam to do well this game and next so we can see what ridiculous letters will be written against him.  He's grown on me as he has grown up and I think he has been fantastic this year. 

[FuriousStyles]

Soooo....Panthers are this year's SB champs? I just hope Peyton and Co. can keep things competitive this time and not get embarassed.  But I don't even see them accomplishing that with the way the Panthers and Cam in particular are playing.  

 

Carson is surely showing his true colors tonight, but even Fitz has dropped a couple too.  The Cards are simply just getting beat by a better team.

Edited January 25, 2016 by FuriousStyles

[benteen]

Congrats to Denver.  Their D was ferocious although they were fortunate the Pats missed that extra point earlier.  I'm happy that Peyton will get one more shot.

 

I wouldn't underestimate Denver and anything can happen in the NFL.  But Carolina is looking damn good right now.

[twoods]

The Arizona play calling is ridiculous. There is plenty of time left- no need to have Palmer force things. Sigh...

With the way Cam is running around without a care for his safety, I hope he doesn't get hurt.

Edited January 25, 2016 by twoods

[AimingforYoko]

Cam Newton is what Colin Kaepernick was supposed to be.

[BitterApple]

Well, this one's over. I'm not even bothering with the last five minutes. Congrats to the Panthers on a decisive and well-deserved win.

[AimingforYoko]

Just pull him, Bruce. This is embarrassing.

[xaxat]

"Sorry you fell out of the stands dude, but I am not giving up this football!"