S07.E18: Rumble On The Runway

[StevieRocks]

I kind of understand why Bethenny is battering her with the dress caper because Ramona seems to thinks that her actions are above reproach.  She never has really admitted that she took the dresses with the intent of not returning them.  For all of her protestations - the assistant said she could have the dress and she emailed Bethenny's office to find out where she should send the second dress - Bethenny soundly refuted those protests - and the next thing she said was that she would pay Bethenny.   I loved the look on her face when Bethenny said $545.  JMO but I think the only way to deal with Ramona's shady behavior is to put her on blast - regardless of whether it's Bethenny or anyone else. 

Amen to this. So happy that someone finally refused to back down to Moaner's nutty, twitchy, dismissive excuses. She looks like an amped-up mental patient who is struggling desperately to respond in a coherent manner, and finally just collapses into a tirade of silly, insincere apologies and excuses designed to dodge the conversation. You're not smart, Moaner; in fact, you appear to struggle just to string together an intelligible sentence, Twitchy. 

[islandgal140]

B was not going to let Ramona start with her insincere apologies, ass kissing, and dismissal. But I will say, it really seemed like Bethenny was harping on the dress thing out of nowhere. That happened months ago, right? Back when B still had a talk show? So it just seemed weird that she's bringing it up now - and over and over and over.

 

It did happen months ago and at the time B did hand wave the incident away like she didn't care and wouldn't make a big deal out of it. Normally, I would harp on B for bringing it up now but since it is Ramona we are talking about? I say use every lil bit of ammo you can gather from the four corners of the upper east side and 

 

 

For far Too long (7 damn seasons to be exact) Ramona has run roughshod, unchecked, unfettered on this damn show like a crazed, manic, medicated ferret and I was sick of it. Some have remarked that she is an easy target. Maybe, but no one has hit a bulleye's with her... until last night! Until last night she has always been able to use her rather pedestrian bag of tricks to slither out of every situation - the glib profuse apologies, the compliments, the admission to being human and making mistakes, the siddling up to you and being sweet and nice. It was nice to see all that shit fall flat. 

 

 

 

 I had to laugh when Ramona tried so hard to portray Mario as asking her to please join him in fully retreating from life, and just sitting around at home alone together, letting the clock run out.  She is so utterly shit-filled!

 

Ramona made him sound like Greta Garbo: "I vant to be alone."

[ghoulina]

I thought Bethenny was very supportive of Sonja. She and Heather, being in business, were right to be concerned about certain things. Of course, if Sonja didn't want their input, why invite them? Both Heather and Bethenny asked about target audiences and other brands -- it's fashion/business 101.

 

I agree. I didn't see anything wrong with their questions. Were they just supposed to sit there and nod and smile and give Sonja air time? Or did she genuinely want their help/opinions? In any case, I didn't think their behavior was in any way mean, rude, disrespectful. If anything, I'd say Sonja was the disrespectful one - showing up late, and then barking at Heather about how to talk to the models, when B was the one suggesting a different approach. 

[ivygirl]

As others have noted, it's Marketing 101 to know, understand, and be able to answer to the positioning of your product. It's part of your market research, and it HELPS you define how you stand apart (even if you're describing who you're standing among).

If they didn't want to get into brand names, they could've said something like, "I don't want to limit Sonja Morgan International House of Phashion, Inc., LLC, TM's brand, but I'd say we belong among the designs that appeal to the well-traveled urban woman who has an eye for classic lines and thoughtful detail, who will invest in well-made pieces that take her where she wants to go." Or whatever. The informed listener would then at least have a SENSE of what they're going for and their perceived "competition." It's certainly better than just saying "Oh, there's no parallel." Sorry, unless you're designing dresses that look like toaster waffles, that's probably not true.

I thought everyone--except Ramona, and maybe Sonja--looked really beautiful in last night's ep. And Sonjal looked like modern-day Madonna to me on WWHL. 

Edited August 5, 2015 by ivygirl

[MMLEsq]

Editing some quoted posts down for brevity...

 

...I kept on looking at the woman behind them [Ramona & Bethenny] and wondered what she was thinking.

I would imagine anyone that's come to a Sonja Morgan fashion show came in fully expecting some HW drama and was probably thrilled to have a "front row" seat to the main event -- the main event being Ramona and Bethenny, not Sonja's clothes.

 

...To me Sonja had restrictions when it came to money. It is not a good idea to put that theme out there on camera. For what she invested it came off well.  Who knows maybe next year we will see Sonja teaming up with a manufacturer. 

I have always assumed (perhaps wrongly, given a lot of the comments that I've seen here) that Sonja hasn't invested any money in this fashion line.  Instead, I've always assumed that these people came to her, wanted to license her name and get exposure on the RHoNY, and in exchange Sonja gets a cut of the profits and a storyline for the show (and "redemption" because a project is finally working out for her).  I've always assumed that she's had very little input on the line itself...maybe they ran the clothes by her, but I seriously doubt she's taking pen/pencil to paper and sketched out actual designs.  I've always assumed that they gave Sonja information on a "need to know basis" and that's why she always seems clueless whenever anyone asks her specific questions.  And, I've always assumed that, while she's the "figurehead" of the brand, she is definitely not in charge and the people that are seem annoyed whenever she tries to exert any kind of authority over anything.  (Example:  the guy at the fashion show who got yelled at for not showing her the second looks....  he looked like he wanted to say an awful lot, but was biting his tongue because they had to keep up the charade that Sonja actually has a say in any of this because of the Bravo cameras.)  I could be completely wrong, but that's always what I've assumed.

 

...Sonja is a mess. Did she even know why she was in the conference room? Clearly, someone told Heather and Bethenny they were there to look at clothes, not models. Sonja didn't even seem worried that Heather and Bethenny had no clue why they were there. The fashion show was a mess. I knew that models are recycled for different looks at fashion shows, but the transitions are almost always seamless. Sonja appeared to need like 20 minutes between the first set of clothing and the second set. What a mess. The clothes did look nice and simple. I found it telling that no buyers showed up. On another note, that guy on Sonja's team that does not seem to answer anything directly creeps me out. I think the collection is selling online because they couldn't find any buyers.

Exactly!  I think Sonja's not worried because she's not really all that involved in the day-to-day stuff...she's just there to agree to have her name slapped on this line and to get some of the profits.  As I alluded above, I think Sonja's team doesn't answer questions because they really don't care for or need Sonja's input.  They're putting up with her, for the the most part.

 

...If you ask me the Countess has done her line the right way, it looks good, it's affordable, and she is actually wearing all of her items on the show and in her TH's which is the best advertisement there is because she looks great in them.  ...

I agree -- LuAnn pretty much always gets it right when it comes to how she looks (Kristen too).  Plus, if I recall correctly, LuAnn's clothes are more moderately priced, which is probably more realistic for the RHoNY audience.  And, as an aside, do lots of people really buy $1,200+ dress online?  Wouldn't most people want to see how it looks first?    

 

...Sonja -- you had me worried during your "non-meetings", but you pulled it off. I thought the models looked gorgeous and I loved the clothes -- seems like all the HW's did too. Congratulations Lady Morgan.

Carole & Heather -- I love your friendship so much. I'm so glad we finally were able to be a part of a real conversation. I'm going to be very sad if you don't return next season.
...

LuAnn -- I'm worried for you. You have become very insignificant the last few episodes.

Kristen -- So happy to see your nail polish on display. You are beautiful, dress flawlessly, and I hope you return.

Ramona -- I am sick of you. Way to spend the episode complimenting yourself, admiring your new boobs, and being the general asshole you are. Yeah, Mario is dying alright -- with his younger girlfriend. Your ugly is seeping out -- you look horrible! BYE GIRL --!!! ...

I feel the "meetings" were just opportunities for the team to get some Bravo exposure.  It didn't really matter why Sonja was there, so in their minds if they changed the agenda for the meeting (looking at clothes vs. looking at models), it didn't really matter because their main goal was merely to get exposure on the show, not to actually conduct any real business at the meetings.  That, or they wouldn't even bother to tell Sonja what the meeting was about and she just assumed she would see clothes.  Again, not to beat a dead horse, but other than pitching a fit about chignons and being somewhat dismissive towards models, have we ever seen anything that indicates that Sonja had any real input into the line?

 

I also love Carole and Heather and will be disappointed if Heather doesn't return.  Actually, even though the cast is somewhat large, I actually hope that they ALL return next season.  I think with the whole "be cool, don't be all...uncool," LuAnn has probably secured her position for next season.  And, even though Kristen doesn't bring a lot of drama, I enjoy her scenes, so I hope she's back as well.  Ramona can be very frustrating to watch -- I can't even imagine what's it like being her friend -- but I can't really imagine the show without her as well.  There's nothing like watching someone who pretty much has no filter....you truly never know what might come out of Ramona's mouth.  

 

...I do have to say that I am surprised that Sonja actually got this up and running, and so I have to give her credit for that.  This is the furthest that Sonja has ever gotten with any of her business plans.  Do I think she will be successful?  Only time will tell.  I think that she and her "team" had only a certain small amount (in fashion industry terms) of garments made, and are waiting to see how things do on her website.  

 

Heather's questions were valid, and it seemed like Sonja and her team either did not understand or didn't want to answer the questions.  Department store placement is a big thing.  Are you going to be alongside the major designers (Kors, Lauren, DKNY, etc.) or are you going to be in the back of the department with the store brands?  

 

I think Sonja, for the most part, with her business ideas, envisions the end result, without knowing or caring about all the steps it takes to get there.  She seems to picture in her mind all the women of the UES walking around in her fashions, but doesn't think about how long or how hard most designers worked to achieve that. 

 

I think that this fashion show was, hopefully, a wake up call for Sonja.  She had a few melt downs, ("no one is wearing a chignon!!!!"), and she was sweating it a bit~~I think that was a good thing for her!!

I've repeated myself over and over, but once again I give very little credit to Sonja for getting any of this up and running.  But, I think despite the airs she sometimes tends to put on, she seems like a kind and decent (although somewhat kooky) person and I hope this works out for her!

[HunterHunted]

Obviously Sonja's women's wear is going to be in the women's section,  I am curious why Heather would think they have a choice which designers they are displayed next to- I just don't think a small new fashion line would be thinking about that-I think they be delighted to be picked up.  Stores merchandise to sell product not appease the designers sense of worth.  To me Heather was asking the question to see who Sonja thought her line was on par.  Nothing to be gained from the question.

The buyers will want to know where to place the clothing. If it goes in the junior or misses (adult women) sections. Additionally, they would want to know if it is ready to wear, bridge, or diffusion. Ralph Lauren is a good example. He has the following labels: Collection, Black Label, Polo Ralph Lauren, RLX, Lauren Ralph Lauren, Denim & Supply and Golf and Tennis sportswear. Most people never see Collection or Black Label because they only pop up in Saks, Neimans, and Ralph Lauren stores. These are their ready to wear clothing lines. Polo, RLX, and Lauren Ralph Lauren will be found in most misses departments at Macy's and like stores. Denim & Supply would likely would be found in the juniors in most of those same stores.

Sonja as a designer needs to be able to articulate if her clothing should be hanging with the ready to wear and if it should it be next to Ralph Lauren and Michael Kors or Prada or Alexander McQueen or Elie Tahari or Donna Karan or Elizabeth and James or Dries Van Noten. It's not an arbitrary or BS housewife question. It's a question that a real designer with a vision should be able to answer. If they were to stick her clothing next to McQueen, Dries Van Noten, Rick Owens, Comme de Garcons, and the like, the stores would find that they made a huge mistake because Sonja's clothing is much more conventional, not nearly as avant garde, and unlikely to sell in that section. A person who wants to buy Comme de Garcons isn't buying Sonja's knock off Michael Kors clothing.

[Eliz]

In response to people criticizing Bethenny for bringing up the stolen dresses because it's an old issue, I'd point out two things:

(1) When it came up at the beginning of the season, it was clear that Bethenny was annoyed by it, but she was letting it go so as not to start out her return to the show with a fight about something. But now that she has a reason to let Ramona have it, she might as well bring this up too. Especially because

(2) It's a perfect thing to call Ramona out on, because it can't be squirmed out of. There are actual physical objects at issue, and actual cash money. Unlike 95% of housewives disputes, it is zero percent based on "I heard from someone else you said this thing, and I question your motives in saying it and Girl Code blah blah." There's nobody else involved, there's no argument to interpret and reinterpret, there's no spin. She either has the dresses or she doesn't.

In my opinion, Bethenny calling Ramona's bluff on writing a check, and Ramona picking up her purse then putting it down again when she hears the amount is a great moment in the annals of Real Housewives justice.

[ButterQueen]

It's really frustrating that Ramona could not see anything in wrong in what she said. Bethenny even conceded that maybe she does go for more successful men, but it's just not something you say TO the person's face. 

 

 

And I'm still in debt after filling my closet with She by Sheree. Sorry, everyone!

Ok Ok, I'll spring for Ramona's book. ; )

[Eliz]

I especially loved the part when Ramona offered to pay and Bethenny took her up on the offer. BTW Bethenny said that one dress was 500 and the other one was 45 hundred meaning 4500 , did I hear that correctly?

 

I would love to know if Ramona has effectively pay for both dresses, all Ramona has to do it is say it and show the check.

I heard $500 and $485 for the prices of the two dresses.

[Aunt Kiki]

I loved Bethenny's smackdown of Ramona. I think her anger came from an accumulation of things. On the surface, the dress issue doesn't seem that serious. Like, Bethenny is incredibly wealthy, why is she so upset about two dresses she can afford to buy ten times over? However, Ramona has a history of being flippant and disrespectful and I think Bethenny had enough. If I lent you two dresses that you don't wish to return, pay for them. They were not gifts. Ramona lied and said one of the dresses flew out of her vehicle...like wtf? She's incredibly selfish. I think the 'new beginnings' part set Bethenny off because Ramona has not changed and will never changed. I loled at how sweaty Ramona got. Hot seat indeed.

 

Sonja is a mess. Did she even know why she was in the conference room? Clearly, someone told Heather and Bethenny they were there to look at clothes, not models. Sonja didn't even seem worried that Heather and Bethenny had no clue why they were there. The fashion show was a mess. I knew that models are recycled for different looks at fashion shows, but the transitions are almost always seamless. Sonja appeared to need like 20 minutes between the first set of clothing and the second set. What a mess. The clothes did look nice and simple. I found it telling that no buyers showed up. On another note, that guy on Sonja's team that does not seem to answer anything directly creeps me out. I think the collection is selling online because they couldn't find any buyers.

Quite possibly the reason why Bethenny is harping on dressgate is because 1) the dress from the talk show wardrobe was not Bethenny's property, it was the property of the production company and 2) the dress that Ramona had on that had wine spilled on it was cleaned and returned to her (wonder if John's store did the cleaning, lol).  Many production companies supply the wardrobe, and will sell pieces (Mel B bought some of the dresses that were supplied for her and resold them for charity).  I don't know about the second dress, but I'd be steamed about Ramona not returning the dress just on principle.  If in fact the dress was the property of the production company, Bethenny might have been on the hook to pay for it.

 

Ramona's past dress pilfering aside, it's the principle of the thing - you return what doesn't belong to you.  It's especially galling given Ramona can afford it and if memory serves me, she pooh poohed the incident and supposedly didn't like the dress - yet she was photographed in it at a later date - before it flew out of the cab.   She had to know that Bethenny wasn't going to let it drop yet continued to deny, deny, half admit, half apologize, etc.

 

It's like wealthy people (who are not drug addicts or alcoholics)  that are caught shoplifting when they easily can afford to buy the items - and then deny that they did anything wrong. 

 

Bethenny hit the daily double.  She took the beyotch down, and avenged Ramona's smackdown of Bethenny on the bridge a few years ago.  I think the second item was unintended but satisfying all the same.

[Primetimer]

Not even a runaway boob can stop Sonja from finally launching her international luxury lifestyle brand.

Read the story

[abbottrabbit]

I too was confused about the models. If Sonja picked them, why was the first girl the "wrong shape"?

 

 

Giving her the benefit of the doubt and assuming that she did pick them and it wasn't just "here are the randos who showed up to Bravo's open call and/or wandered in confused off the street," she probably picked them from their headshots and their comp cards, and didn't figure out from their measurements that they would have "Versace bodies," or whatever that noise she said was.

The first girl, for example, had a face that I think would be perfect if you're looking for a model for your "Ralph Lauren cut" designer imposters aspirational international lifestyle line. But she was kind of a surfboard, and apparently Sexy J Sonja girls need a bit of T & A (in addition to a smoky eye and an updo, natch).

 

I found the Bethenny and Ramona fight tedious. Team Bethenny, if I must, but Team "After 18 Episodes, Why Are We Watching A Fight About Two Things That Were Never Shown On Screen?" really.

 

(ETA -- I initially got denied permission to reply, and when I was finally able to it had scrapped the formatting, so sorry for not crediting whoever it was I quoted above)

Edited August 5, 2015 by abbottrabbit

[Aunt Kiki]

In response to people criticizing Bethenny for bringing up the stolen dresses because it's an old issue, I'd point out two things:

(1) When it came up at the beginning of the season, it was clear that Bethenny was annoyed by it, but she was letting it go so as not to start out her return to the show with a fight about something. But now that she has a reason to let Ramona have it, she might as well bring this up too. Especially because

(2) It's a perfect thing to call Ramona out on, because it can't be squirmed out of. There are actual physical objects at issue, and actual cash money. Unlike 95% of housewives disputes, it is zero percent based on "I heard from someone else you said this thing, and I question your motives in saying it and Girl Code blah blah." There's nobody else involved, there's no argument to interpret and reinterpret, there's no spin. She either has the dresses or she doesn't.

In my opinion, Bethenny calling Ramona's bluff on writing a check, and Ramona picking up her purse then putting it down again when she hears the amount is a great moment in the annals of Real Housewives justice.

Great point about Ramona snatching up her purse and then putting it down when she heard the cost.  I also liked the exchange about moving seats, which I can't quote but felt that Bethenny shut her down.  Note also that Luann was making a big attempt to keep a conversation going rather than listening in.  Smart move for her, otherwise Ramona would have tried to deflect on her.

 

I probably misheard the amount of the second dress - I was so fascinated by the exchange that I thought I heard $45 for the second dress.  Whatever the amount, I wonder whether Ramona finally put her hand in her pocket and wrote a check to Dress for Success.

 

I had the same problem with the error, abbottrabbit.

[zoeysmom]

Did Sonja ask them to ask these questions?  Sorry, but those type of questions are asked before you have the clothes manufactured so you can modify the designs as needed.  At this point, the clothes were made, she was picking out models and the show was set to go.  When my friends put on fashion and/or art shows and wanted support, what they meant is for me to help talk them from the ledge when the stress ramps up or help getting things together.  Asking about marketing stuff when she is trying to put the show together isn't all that helpful or supportive.

Exactly.  Another thing Bethenny worked out of  her home with her brand and still did at the time of her divorce and oh yes, her branding summit occurred at a hotel in a conference room.  So maybe Bethenny, need not be so snarky about Sonja's choice of headquarters locale.

[sasha206]

Sonja is looking rough on wwhl

 

I thought so too.

 

I think the make-up artist contoured her too much. Made her nose look even more pointy and long than it is.

[zoeysmom]

http://www.vulture.com/2015/08/real-housewives-of-new-york-city-recap-season-7-episode-18.html

 

Vuture comments.  He liked the clothes.

[Booger666]

Regarding the timing of Bethenney going after Ramona, this is where I think B leaving out details of her life does her a disservice. I don't follow B outside of the show, but some here have mentioned she broke up with her boyfriend during this season. When B went off on Ramona I wondered if this scene was around the time of the breakup and she was on edge. Does anyone know the real timing? I'm not saying B's points didn't have merit. Just that sometimes personal issues can come into play and small arguments can become big blow ups and I wonder if that happened here. Some additional context would have been helpful.

[njbchlover]

Go Beth! She called Ramona on her bs. I loved it. And didn't let her get away with "ok, ok, crucify me."

Very interesting that Beth knows Mario's side piece.

Eta: Has Beth knowing Mario's mistresses been out there? I had never heard of that.

 

 

Bethenny didn't just say she knew the mistress but that she "personally" knew her! LOL

 

 

Yes, caught that.

So, Ramona's business partner dated the other woman and Beth "personally" knows her.

It's all very Melrose Place.

 

I guess New York isn't all that big, LOL!!  Mario doesn't seem to have wandered too far out of his own playground!!   ;-)

[zoeysmom]

I know nothing about fashion branding/merchadising, but I think that when a buyer purchases garments from a designer, there is much thought that goes into where it is placed on the store floor. Like if I had a juniors' clothing line that I intended to market as accessible and youthful to teens, I would want it next to Jessica Simpson or Guess merchandise because I would want those customers, if that makes sense. With Sonja's line, if Macy's did purchase it, they wouldn't place $500 dresses right next to a Cable & Gauge or a Style & Co display since those customers are less likely to reach for it. I think Heather was trying to get a feel for the brand by asking where it would be placed.

Again I don' think a brand new designer has a say or choice in the decision by the retailer for placement.  The retailer has purchased the clothes-it is their decision.  They could keep it in the backroom and never bring it out and later ship it to an outlet store.  Heather didn't ask who she would like to be beside.  That would have elicited a better response-getting a feel for who Sonja likes or thinks of her clothes.

[ButterQueen]

Loved Carole's story of the TSA incident.......lotion!!!! Whose is this??? LOL

[WireWrap]

Again I don' think a brand new designer has a say or choice in the decision by the retailer for placement.  The retailer has purchased the clothes-it is their decision.  They could keep it in the backroom and never bring it out and later ship it to an outlet store.  Heather didn't ask who she would like to be beside.  That would have elicited a better response-getting a feel for who Sonja likes or thinks of her clothes.

Isn't that what Heather asked though? IMO asking who do you see your line next to/along side in a store is asking what you, Sonja/team, wants.

Edited August 5, 2015 by WireWrap

[Aunt Kiki]

Isn't that what Heather asked though? IMO asking who do you see your line next to/along side in a store is asking what you, Sonja/team, wants.

I could be off base here, but when Rachael Zoe launched her line in the last season of her Bravo show, she did work with the retailers for placement, going so far as to having her retail space designed.  The comparison may be apples and oranges, given that RZ was 100% invested in the project both financially and emotionally.

[zoeysmom]

Isn't that what Heather asked though? IMO asking who do you see your line next to/along side in a store is asking what you, Sonja/team, wants.

No.  One is asking for a wish the other is making the person commit to where you think your clothes belong.  If I wish something, then it is usually not subject to criticism. Had Sonja said, " My dream would be to have the collection in every window of every department store."  Then she answered the question of what she wished for.   Kind of like saying I want to marry a King and live happily ever after.   If I say, "I SEE my brand next to Michael Kors Resort," then the gate is opened, especially in this group, to give a long list of why I am wrong to SEE my clothing line there. 

 

It is apparent that something went wrong prior to the meeting and the clothes didn't arrive or sketches or photographs.  I guess it was one of those fourth wall things where time, schedules could not be delayed because of missing garb.

[zoeysmom]

I could be off base here, but when Rachael Zoe launched her line in the last season of her Bravo show, she did work with the retailers for placement, going so far as to having her retail space designed.  The comparison may be apples and oranges, given that RZ was 100% invested in the project both financially and emotionally.

Sonja has a 24 piece line so it would really not compare to Rachel Zoe.  Sonja line is teeny tiny.

[Wendy]

It took all season but Bethenny finally found a target that fans would love her for dumping on. Sorry Ramona. She does deserve it.

 

 

 

Ramona put herself in that position when she decided to open her big fat mouth to talk about thing that are none of her business so Ramona should thank herself that she is being railed by the coals by Bethenny.

[Aunt Kiki]

I agree Bethenny has been supportive, above and beyond so.  And Heather also - Heather has been at this circus with Sonja since the toaster oven days so I am amazed she is even still giving this her attention.  The designer/brand should be able to say where they are positioning themselves.  If Sonja has a marketing background, she should know this very basic thing.  This is a question that every buyer will ask, where are you positioning yourself, where in the store will you hang?  If they do not have an answer to this it is no mystery why no one is picking them up.  You have to have this nailed down or no one will "get" your brand.

I agree - Bethenny and Heather have been supportive of Sonja even though both have had multiple moments of either frustration, pity, or outright anger at her and the decisions that she makes.  Both B and H tightly controlled their brands and probably made a lot of mistakes, but learned from them.   And Sonja ain't listening.  She seems to be more enamored that these two successful businesswomen are sitting with her at her meetings.  Sad.

 

Bethenny and Kristin put their $$ where their mouths  and bought something from Sonja.  I wonder about the others.

[WireWrap]

No.  One is asking for a wish the other is making the person commit to where you think your clothes belong.  If I wish something, then it is usually not subject to criticism. Had Sonja said, " My dream would be to have the collection in every window of every department store."  Then she answered the question of what she wished for.   Kind of like saying I want to marry a King and live happily ever after.   If I say, "I SEE my brand next to Michael Kors Resort," then the gate is opened, especially in this group, to give a long list of why I am wrong to SEE my clothing line there. 

 

It is apparent that something went wrong prior to the meeting and the clothes didn't arrive or sketches or photographs.  I guess it was one of those fourth wall things where time, schedules could not be delayed because of missing garb.

Apparently Sonja already knew, prior to the meeting, the clothes would not be there as she said that she knew she would be asked to see the clothes. I don't think Sonja has a clue about the clothing line and is nothing more than the public figurehead for the line for a small % of the profits.

 

I see no real difference between asking where want your clothes to be in a store and inserting the word "wish", where do you wish to see your line in the store. Especially since this was a follow up question about what kind of clothing line it is as neither Heather or Bethenny had a clue because they had not seen the clothes themselves. IMO, they were trying to understand what types/designs the clothes fell into because the initial answer to the direct question was non descriptive. Seriously, could Sonja have been more clueless about her own "designs"? LOL

[PhilMarlowe2]

I don't like Sonja very much but I will hand it to her that I think she looks way better now than she did in her 20's. Whatever her secret to aging is (and maybe it's just good genetics), it's working!

[HunterHunted]

No. One is asking for a wish the other is making the person commit to where you think your clothes belong. If I wish something, then it is usually not subject to criticism. Had Sonja said, " My dream would be to have the collection in every window of every department store." Then she answered the question of what she wished for. Kind of like saying I want to marry a King and live happily ever after. If I say, "I SEE my brand next to Michael Kors Resort," then the gate is opened, especially in this group, to give a long list of why I am wrong to SEE my clothing line there.

It is apparent that something went wrong prior to the meeting and the clothes didn't arrive or sketches or photographs. I guess it was one of those fourth wall things where time, schedules could not be delayed because of missing garb.

These were not amorphous ephemeral questions. Every couple of months, the blogs I read have demographic surveys to understand their readers. That is what Heather was getting at. She asked both who is your woman and who do you imagine your clothes hanging next to. It was to get an understanding of the Sonja Morgan woman. What are the demographics of a Sonja Morgan woman? College degree? What is her salary? Married? Single? Kids? Does she buy all designer? Or does she mix and match high and low? What kind of car does she drive? How old is she? 21- 30? 30-40? Over 40? And honestly, that all helps with model casting. If a model doesn't fit with how you've articulated your brand and woman, you don't cast her. For example, Dolce and Gabana have gone with this modern Sophia Loren look and every girl they cast fits within their stated identity.

Edited August 5, 2015 by HunterHunted

[Former Nun]

Sonja as a designer needs to be able to articulate if her clothing should be hanging with the ready to wear and if it should it be next to Ralph Lauren and Michael Kors or Prada or Alexander McQueen or Elie Tahari or Donna Karan or Elizabeth and James or Dries Van Noten.

 

 

This is fabulous information, HunterHunted.   If I were a shopper (those days are gone) and had the supposed income of these "housewives," I assume I'd understand it too.  I'd know what department I wanted to seek out depending on the type of clothing I want, need, or love.

[candall]

The thing to be gained from those questions was some sense of "What are the clothes like?"

 

Both Heather and Bethanny were invited to provide some input on the CLOTHES.  Then they arrive and, instead, they're supposed to help pick models.  How can you even begin to choose which models have the right look for the line, when you've never seen the clothes???

 

As Bethanny said, it was not a good use of their time.  I give them both credit for sticking around and trying to suss out comparable lines via desired placement so they'd at least have a little context to help them with model selection.

******

I thought Bethanny picked a strategic moment for a Ramona confrontation.  Since no one knew how long the intermission was going to be, Ramona was estopped from getting up and flouncing away and just maybe she wouldn't stand up and start screeching at the top of her lungs to drown out the person addressing her, which is a technique she's successfully employed in the past.

 

It did seem to be reaching a little to go back to the dresses, but again, no one expected a 20 or 30 minute break.  It's understandable that Sonja wasn't focusing on the guests when she brushed off the lull with "There's a bar so what's the problem?"   The problem being that no one knew they had time to get up and have a cocktail.

 

 

(Sidenote:  My best friend decided to pop by my house when I was out of town and take my one really good bottle of champagne to impress her hot date--champagne from my mother to christen my new house, presented shortly before she died.  Even after explaining all the layers of significance, I've never heard anything from BFF other than her original "Enh, no big deal.  Get over it."  Insult to injury. Like Bethanny, I'm still chafed.  Just a heartfelt apology would cut the sting, instead of center-of-the-universe attitude.)

[sasha206]

Thanks for the pics. However, I'm such a skeptic that I don't put it past Sonja to have hired a professional photographer and staged her own unauthorized private photo shoot wearing designer clothes. I know folks who have done that, though mainly for their own vanity.

 

Not to mention it's the perfect man bait.  They just loooooooove to be able to tell the world they are dating a model (or former model).

[walnutqueen]

I think every one of these "ladies" should hold Ramona's feet to the fire every single time she misbehaves, deflects or lies until she gets it through her thick skull that she is a horrible person who needs to change.  She is not the center of the Universe, but will never know it until it stops revolving around her, just because no one dares to engage the cray cray.

[SCS]

 

a crazed, manic, medicated ferret

LOL, brilliant. And also the perfect title for Ramona's chapter, should there ever be an unauthorized book a la "The Real Story of the Real Housewives".

[SnarkKitty]

Heather won't ever win with Sonja. If she tries to point out the obvious, that she needs to understand the clothes before she can effectively give advice on the models, it will look like she is trying to take over and make Sonja look stupid. Sonja isn't really looking for help. She is looking for someone to come in and tell her that she is awesome and she is all over it. It will be interesting, because I imagine that Heather will take the brunt of Sonja's criticism, even though Beth will be right with Heather and agreeing with her on something that Heather knows a lot about. 

 

Ha! Boy did you call it. To where even BETHENNY says "It was me, not her" but that barely slows down the Sonja blame game, she just slightly shifts the focus of what insults her to make it about Heather. This freaking "Heather is the devil" thing they've got going is ridiculous and jumps the shark with this episode.

[ZaldamoWilder]

PTV clearly, I haven't learned my lesson.  I keep trying to post stuff at 10:03, the exact moment of caffeine kick-in, when dammit, I shouldn't.  Got it now.

 

Jmho. El em en oh pee

 

^ still giggling!

 

Beth said on Twitter that this was literally her favorite scene ever.

She also slapped back at Dorinda on Twitter when she said that Beth needed to let the dress deal go. Something about how everyone makes a mistake. Beth didn't appreciate it.

 

They must have some existing beef.  During the twitter episode of London Calling, Dorinda was introducing Trini, host of What Not to Wear, London and B tweeted Trini, host of shouldn'tve worn that.  I said everybody stop! drop! and roll!, girl what'd Trini do to you?

 

It was a good RHONYC night. Bethenny got Ramona to-gether. Ramona got gathered, collated, read, re-read, ghostwritten, edited and then dumped in the clearance bin. That was a long time coming and I was starved for it so thank you Bethenny. 

 

Kudoz to Sonja for pulling off her line. Her fashions look very wearable but basic, derivative and done before. I don't know if it justifies her price point though but shit Calvin Klein and Kors have been doing it for years. Her backers are sketchy as hell though. How are they not able to answer simple questions? Her models were gorgeous with meat on their bones and lovely hair.

 

All this time I thought Elie Taharie was a woman. LOL!

 

That waiter was super cute.

 

Sonja looks very odd on WWHL. It is not just the bad bronzer and eye makeup either. Something about her face, her nose in particular, is giving me Grandpa Munster vibes, especially in profile.

 

Excuse me, you dropped this.  {{hands islandgal back her mic}}

 

That didn't make sense at all.  Did she not realize that Mario's picture is online with women half her age?  Did she think everyone would believe that it was all her decision to be single? 

 

Good luck to her in finding a new man.  As much as she is a snob about not wanting to date a bartender, men are much worse.  60 year old woman are not on their radar if they are rich and successful.  And rich and successful is what she is looking for. 

 

What actually makes me stabby is that she not only doesn't realize how rare this is but a) if a dude 15 years younger than you are (and you are 60) is making a point to introduce himself to you, give him the time of day please because 45 is a good and grown ass man and if he isn't, you shall find out soon enough.  and b) I can attest to spying at least two age compatible very handsome gentlemen at that skinny girl party.  One was in the back exactly where Beth's assistant said he was, wearing a grey and silver/white striped tie.  I thought if she doesn't notice this dude, she's not trying to.  Naturally I can't confirm their status but if she thinks single billionaires are gonna start pouring out of the woodwork (looking for her) she needs to have a a real come to Jesus about dating life in nyc.   Melania Trump's got her beat by 15 years and look who she "landed".

 

Even though Ramona behaves so badly all the time, I can't help but think they (producers) were planning this Bethenny - Ramona confrontation all season. Ramona continued her shit-stirring, elitist, twitchy non-apologetic apologies in almost every episode. Does anyone remember an episode in which she didn't say or do something outrageous?

 

Somebody already beat me to it.  I was going to reference the time she apologized to Luann about being such a shitheel to her about the Count.  That was one thing out of 90 though.  Odds on favorites are Old Habits to place and You're Still an Asshole to win it.

 

Am I the only one who doesn't know the difference between an Armani figure and a Versace body?

 

Nope.  But so now The Google said Armani is about tailored classic looks, whereas Versace is a much flashier, glamorous House.  Donatella Versace was reportedly pissed at Giorgio Armani for repeating what he said was a quote Gianni Versace made to him once:  "I dress sluts and you dress church ladies"
I'm not sure what exactly that has to with body shape but, if it's true, it illustrates what Sonja might've been trying to say about her ideal model being what the runway considers voluptuous.  Kate Upton versus Kate Moss.  Pure guesswork.

 

Query - since the fashion show was in a completely different location, can Sonja really say she was a part of "Fashion Week?"

 

Given her characterization of a close association with John John and Madonna, I gotta go with:  {{fingersnap}} she'd just missed it.

 

I have always assumed (perhaps wrongly, given a lot of the comments that I've seen here) that Sonja hasn't invested any money in this fashion line.  Instead, I've always assumed that these people came to her, wanted to license her name and get exposure on the RHoNY, and in exchange Sonja gets a cut of the profits and a storyline for the show (and "redemption" because a project is finally working out for her).  I've always assumed that she's had very little input on the line itself...maybe they ran the clothes by her, but I seriously doubt she's taking pen/pencil to paper and sketched out actual designs.  I've always assumed that they gave Sonja information on a "need to know basis" and that's why she always seems clueless whenever anyone asks her specific questions.  And, I've always assumed that, while she's the "figurehead" of the brand, she is definitely not in charge and the people that are seem annoyed whenever she tries to exert any kind of authority over anything.  (Example:  the guy at the fashion show who got yelled at for not showing her the second looks....  he looked like he wanted to say an awful lot, but was biting his tongue because they had to keep up the charade that Sonja actually has a say in any of this because of the Bravo cameras.)  I could be completely wrong, but that's always what I've assumed.

 

I've repeated myself over and over, but once again I give very little credit to Sonja for getting any of this up and running.  But, I think despite the airs she sometimes tends to put on, she seems like a kind and decent (although somewhat kooky) person and I hope this works out for her!

 

This.  How would Queen Elizabeth know what English law is when she doesn't run the country?  That dude she was hollerin at was about to go into thrombosis lol! He used every superpower available not to anoint her with the truth. 

 

If Sonja wanted Beth and Heather there to talk her down off the ledge, first of all, say that.  Second of all, there would've been no need to have her other "executives" there for a back-patting conference.  The moral support angle just doesn't work for me because the reason you'd have two women who've spearheaded their own companies by establishing and constantly promoting their brand in the room is to give you pointers on spearheading your own company.  Otherwise, it makes more sense to invite your psychic whosiwhatsee to be your cheerleader.  We have it on good authority that her townhouse windows have been opened for 5 of the last 10 ninety plus degree days nyc has had.  So how much sense should we really be trying to make out of it?  Ah Sonja, bless her heart.

 

Ramona, darling I'm here for each and every time (though I fear there won't be any more) that Bethenney performs surgery on that ass.  You're vile, clueless, insincere, disloyal and a straight up liar and even with all that, we were waiting in our living rooms with kleenex and haagen dazs to see you through this *difficult time*.   p.s. when you say Mario likes to sit home and watch tv, if by tv, you mean another woman's vahzjeen, yeah the guy's a real couch potato.  Bitch.

[SnarkKitty]

 

Heather won't ever win with Sonja. If she tries to point out the obvious, that she needs to understand the clothes before she can effectively give advice on the models, it will look like she is trying to take over and make Sonja look stupid. Sonja isn't really looking for help. She is looking for someone to come in and tell her that she is awesome and she is all over it. It will be interesting, because I imagine that Heather will take the brunt of Sonja's criticism, even though Beth will be right with Heather and agreeing with her on something that Heather knows a lot about.

 

Carried from First Look: MotorCityMom65 - Ha! Boy did you call it. To where even BETHENNY says "It was me, not her" but that barely slows down the Sonja blame game, she just slightly shifts the focus of what insults her to make it about Heather. This freaking "Heather is the devil" thing they've got going is ridiculous and jumps the shark with this episode.

 

Did anyone else catch Bethenny saying she thought they were to see Sonja's clothing line at that model meeting with Heather, as did Heather? Sounds like both Heather and Bethenny were told it was something other than what it was. I also noticed that Sonja got mad at Heather for what Bethenny said and refused to back off Heather even when Bethenny admitted she said it not Heather. Why do I get the feeling that Sonja was trying to make Heather look bad on purpose and hoped Bethenny would help her do it?!?

 

Yup.

[Aunt Kiki]

I think every one of these "ladies" should hold Ramona's feet to the fire every single time she misbehaves, deflects or lies until she gets it through her thick skull that she is a horrible person who needs to change.  She is not the center of the Universe, but will never know it until it stops revolving around her, just because no one dares to engage the cray cray.

Excellent idea!  And it must be a united front unless the other ladies grow brass balls like the ones Bethenny has.  Poor Kristin got drawn and quartered because everyone watched and no one stepped in.  Luann got her ass handed to her.  Heather gave it a helluva try but realized she wasn't getting anywhere.  In all honesty I've never encountered a person like Ramona who fit IslandGal140's description to a tee - a crazed, manic, medicated ferret. I know I sound like a broken record, but - poor Avery.

[Rahul]

I don't like seeing someone get badgered, but if anyone had it coming....

 

Even before that scene, Bethenny's lines were all zingers for me, very Season 3 Bethenny. She's at her best genuinely pissed off (i.e., from something that affects her real life) and at a fashion show, it seems. This time instead of LuAnn being read for filth, it was Ramona.

 

This episode just solidified why Bethenny is so desperately needed for the RHONYC franchise. Ramona is a compulsive liar. Are we really supposed to believe the dress she forgot to return to the costume department of Bethenny's talk show flew out of her back seat? The only thing I've ever had fly out of my car was an empty plastic bag.

 

IMHO, Bethenny is the MVP this season for her verbal dressing down of Ramona alone, but I might be biased since B's commentary has slayed me in every season she has appeared. Bethenny is the only one who has been successfully able to take Ramona to task for her heinous behavior.

 

I think it is fairly obvious why Heather and Bethenny were there-production needed the women for camera time.  You could be the most confident person in the world and with this group of women criticism is almost a given.

 

Once again Sonja duped others into sitting in on a business meeting in order to get camera time. Sonja knew full well there would be no dresses on display given the paltry size of that rented conference room, so it was actually quite gracious of Bethenny and Heather to stay for the duration of the model casting session. I probably would have walked out and said, "You don't need me for this. My talents would be best served elsewhere."

 

Has anyone tried to go to Sonja's website? I did and it said temporarily unavailable. I then looked it up on google just in case and Google said that the website may have been hacked. Weird.

I found some pics on reality tea though. Nice outfits but I did see some construction issues to nit pick. For example, one of the snakeskin print outfits didn't match the print at the seams correctly. Some of the tops had awkward boob darts.

 

What are boob darts? That sounds like a dangerous game one might play when sufficiently soused.

 

It occurred to me that Sonja's fashion line might be outrageously priced to serve as a deterrent because there is little to no actual inventory to sell. If the entire line was produced just so she could have a story line this season, then Sonja must secretly be praying no one calls her bluff and places an order for merchandise that has not been manufactured.

 

BTW Bethenny said that one dress was 500 and the other one was 45 hundred meaning 4500 , did I hear that correctly?

 

Closed captioning puts the dress values at $500 and $485.

[FamilyVan]

Again I don' think a brand new designer has a say or choice in the decision by the retailer for placement.  The retailer has purchased the clothes-it is their decision.  They could keep it in the backroom and never bring it out and later ship it to an outlet store.  Heather didn't ask who she would like to be beside.  That would have elicited a better response-getting a feel for who Sonja likes or thinks of her clothes.

 

 

But they are not buying it to hang in the back room, they buy it intending to put it on the floor and sell it, and yes it is up to the designer/manufacturer to position their item and let the buyer know where they belong.  "Where will your clothing line hang in the department" is an industry term, it does not mean you are choosing the exact spot on the floor where it goes, this term is used in housewares and shoes that do not literally go on a hanger.  It means are you moderate, better, bridge, etc.  You say we are better sportswear they will know what you mean and yes the store decides where in the store exactly better sportswear is, but you have to tell them what you intend your category is.

[imjagain]

The thing to be gained from those questions was some sense of "What are the clothes like?"

Both Heather and Bethanny were invited to provide some input on the CLOTHES. Then they arrive and, instead, they're supposed to help pick models. How can you even begin to choose which models have the right look for the line, when you've never seen the clothes???

As Bethanny said, it was not a good use of their time. I give them both credit for sticking around and trying to suss out comparable lines via desired placement so they'd at least have a little context to help them with model selection.

******

I thought Bethanny picked a strategic moment for a Ramona confrontation. Since no one knew how long the intermission was going to be, Ramona was estopped from getting up and flouncing away and just maybe she wouldn't stand up and start screeching at the top of her lungs to drown out the person addressing her, which is a technique she's successfully employed in the past.

It did seem to be reaching a little to go back to the dresses, but again, no one expected a 20 or 30 minute break. It's understandable that Sonja wasn't focusing on the guests when she brushed off the lull with "There's a bar so what's the problem?" The problem being that no one knew they had time to get up and have a cocktail.

(Sidenote: My best friend decided to pop by my house when I was out of town and take my one really good bottle of champagne to impress her hot date--champagne from my mother to christen my new house, presented shortly before she died. Even after explaining all the layers of significance, I've never heard anything from BFF other than her original "Enh, no big deal. Get over it." Insult to injury. Like Bethanny, I'm still chafed. Just a heartfelt apology would cut the sting, instead of center-of-the-universe attitude.)

You just blew my mind. Who the hell does that? Wow! I thought things like that only happen in "real housewives world".

How completely inconsiderate. Are you 2 still friends?

Sorry about your mother.

[JAYJAY1979]

I think what heather was asking during the meeting was not to indicate that the designers had control over where their clothes would go...but was more a question of what type of customer they were aiming for. Women's clothing has different groupings especially in a store like Nordstrom.

Were the clothes aimed at juniors, women...are they classic pieces, more contemporary.. high end (dolce and gabanna, chanel), bridge ,or more affordable (like a Liz clairborne or Ralph lauren).

I got what heather was going for, but I think she didn't ask it in the right way.

[TV Diva Queen]

I heard $500 and $485 for the prices of the two dresses.

I heard $500 and $4500.  Bethany said, give me a check, I'll donate to Dress for Success.

[HunterHunted]

I think what heather was asking during the meeting was not to indicate that the designers had control over where their clothes would go...but was more a question of what type of customer they were aiming for. Women's clothing has different groupings especially in a store like Nordstrom.

Were the clothes aimed at juniors, women...are they classic pieces, more contemporary.. high end (dolce and gabanna, chanel), bridge ,or more affordable (like a Liz clairborne or Ralph lauren).

I got what heather was going for, but I think she didn't ask it in the right way.

I think Heather asked it exactly the right way because she was speaking with folks who allegedly had experience in the industry, including Sonja who has a degree from the Fashion Institute of Technology in fashion marketing and/or merchandising.

BTW not criticizing anything you said. I just think that Sonja and her folks are largely frauds.

Edited August 5, 2015 by HunterHunted

[KFC]

Beth and Heather are supposed to be the smart ones of this franchise. But they went and wasted their time, even though there were plenty of red flags. Yet here we are talking about them. Guess they're smart.

 

I mean, with Sonja, you're pretty much guaranteed to look like the victor in comparison, with very little verbal labor involved...

[ryebread]

Bethenny is the only one who has been successfully able to take Ramona to task for her heinous behavior.

 

Except when Ramona was so rotten to her on the Brooklyn Bridge in the early years. But Beth is making up for it in spades this season, yeah buddy.

 

What are boob darts? That sounds like a dangerous game one might play when sufficiently soused.

 

LOL.  These things, for an example.  See the straight lines on the side of the bust and from hip to bust? Those are darts.  It's a method seamstresses use to fit the fabric over curves.  Men's clothes can have darts, too.

[Rahul]

These things, for an example.  See the straight lines on the side of the bust and from hip to bust? Those are darts.  It's a method seamstresses use to fit the fabric over curves.  Men's clothes can have darts, too.

Thanks for the illustrated edification. Is that an industry term? :)

My knowledge of fashion is minimal at best.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Ramona put herself in that position when she decided to open her big fat mouth to talk about thing that are none of her business so Ramona should thank herself that she is being railed by the coals by Bethenny.

'

I did say in my post that you quoted that Bethenny's anger at Ramona is deserved.

[Freckledbruh]

Thanks for the illustrated edification. Is that an industry term? :)

My knowledge of fashion is minimal at best.

Well, they don't call them "boob darts" but it was early in the morning and I didn't feel like saying "darts near the bust line."  Either way, some of them looked misplaced which will make the wearer look like she is channeling Madonna circa 1992 with the cone boobs.

 

Once again Sonja duped others into sitting in on a business meeting in order to get camera time. Sonja knew full well there would be no dresses on display given the paltry size of that rented conference room, so it was actually quite gracious of Bethenny and Heather to stay for the duration of the model casting session. I probably would have walked out and said, "You don't need me for this. My talents would be best served elsewhere."

Meh.  It is a TV show and these ladies are supposed to film different scenes together.  Carol didn't get roasted over the coals when she invited the ladies to her place for lunch and only had M&Ms to serve.  

[Duke2801]

I've repeated myself over and over, but once again I give very little credit to Sonja for getting any of this up and running.  But, I think despite the airs she sometimes tends to put on, she seems like a kind and decent (although somewhat kooky) person and I hope this works out for her!

 

 

I thought this once upon a time myself.  Until I started learning more and more about her shady "movie production company" and the reasons that she now has to pay out MILLIONS of dollars.  Definitely some good links and information in the Sonja thread. 

 

But no, no.  Sonja is not a good and decent person.  At least according to how I judge people.