S11.E08: Week 7

[truthaboutluv]

YMMV but Nick always waves his hand all over the place when he's talking. It's part of his awkwardness in my opinion and I don't mean that in a negative way. Just that he has a bit of an awkward, twitchy thing in his movements. So I don't think the hand gestures were some huge attempt for the cameras to catch the ring. I honestly only noticed the ring once.

Edited July 1, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[maryshelley]

 

For someone who demands so much honestly and calls people out in front of each other in the name of honesty, and wants people to put it all out there to her...well she sure seems eager to keep her secret about sleeping with Nick under wraps.

I agree, LadyJaney. Based on the previews showing that she felt guilty about having slept with Nick while she was still interested in other guys, and the fact that she ends up telling at least some of them something about it, I was expecting her to make a decision that she needed to come clean with all of the guys just so that she wouldn't be keeping secrets from them. But clearly that's not how it goes down. I was also, ahem, expecting it to happen this week.

 

As an aside, I do want to say that I really admire the fact that Kaitlyn has not once apologized for having sex. She clearly believes that as an adult she has every right to make that decision and it's not one she should be ashamed of. She always makes a distinction that she feels bad that it happened while she was building relationships with other guys. I find it horrifying the number of comments I've seen (all from women) saying that she's a "whore." 

 

I was very interested to see how Chris Harrison's blog would spin the changes to the timeline. He said:

 

Clearly this season has been different from any other season we’ve ever had. Kaitlyn definitely has handled things in her own way... it’s clear that with a different Bachelorette, we needed a different way to go about things.

and: 

 

With all these complications and changes, it was really important for us to tailor this experience to Kaitlyn and her needs. We thought four hometown dates seemed a little premature, and she agreed. It’s the first time we’ve made such a drastic change, but we really think it’s going to make a difference for Kaitlyn and her guys.

Four hometown dates seemed a little premature? Does that mean that most of the relationships had not developed to the point where the guys were wanting to take her home to meet their families, or that the producers were concerned that it would come out that Kaitlyn had had a telltale tryst with Nick, and the remaining guys would not feel like they wanted to introduce her to their families, unless they'd had "alone time" in which to convince themselves that she was serious about a marriage? It's all very confusing!

Edited July 1, 2015 by maryshelley

[gator12]

I'm reading many posts here about how Kaitlyn slept with Shawn not once but twice.   I am so confused.  This really happened?!  Why does Kaitlyn admit openly to the viewers and to the producers that she slept with Nick and it was a mistake, but she hasn't copped to giving Shawn a test drive or two?  Or is it just mere speculation based on how possessive, needy, annoying, clingy, etc. Shawn is? 

 

Busted Gosling, lack of confidence is not becoming.  I'm sure if he left the show now and he went back to being a personal trainer, he would have all sorts of attractive women in Lululemon workout gear falling all over him at the gym.

 

Hard to believe, but I'm actually pulling for Nick now if it comes down to Nick and Shawn. 

 

Always fun to speculate about who could make a good bachelor.  I think Ben Z definitely.  No to Cupcake - I wouldn't watch.  Definitely not boring Joe when he likely gets booted next week.

Isn't he a personal trainer in name only since he quit his real job to go on this show and his now looking for employment? 

[anony mouse]

As an aside, I do want to say that I really admire the fact that Kaitlyn has not once apologized for having sex. She clearly believes that as an adult she has every right to make that decision and it's not one she should be ashamed of. She always makes a distinction that she feels bad that it happened while she was building relationships with other guys. I find it horrifying the number of comments I've seen (all from women) saying that she's a "whore."

What would you call a person who has sex with multiple partners within days of one another, broadcast on national television?

Just me, but Bachelor or Bachelorette, I'd call that person a whore.

[chocolatine]

A bit random, but I have to say that Kaitlyn's driving really impresses me.  She's driving in new places, including in the UK where they drive on the left which can be difficult to get used to, and she's doing a good job.  Thumbs up!

 

And she's driving stick! I was impressed too.

[truthaboutluv]

I think during Chris' season in one of those bio things, Kaitlyn revealed moving to Germany or some European country for a boyfriend and I think she lived there for two years. So my guess is she probably learned to drive stick while there and get used to driving on the opposite side of the road.

[chocolatine]

I think during Chris' season in one of those bio things, Kaitlyn revealed moving to Germany or some European country for a boyfriend and I think she lived there for two years. So my guess is she probably learned to drive stick while there and get used to driving on the opposite side of the road.

 

We drive on the same side of the road in Germany as in the US! All of continental Europe does.

[Padma]

What would you call a person who has sex with multiple partners within days of one another, broadcast on national television?

Just me, but Bachelor or Bachelorette, I'd call that person a whore.

Not to mention her attitude toward what she's doing which is anything BUT open and honest.

[truthaboutluv]

We drive on the same side of the road in Germany as in the US! All of continental Europe does.

 

My mistake. I blame The Amazing Race where I've seen so many team driving drama once they hit the European countries, that I just started thinking they all drove on the opposite side. Of course now that I think about it most of the stress usually comes from having to drive a stick.

[Scout Finch]

A bit random, but I have to say that Kaitlyn's driving really impresses me.  She's driving in new places, including in the UK where they drive on the left which can be difficult to get used to, and she's doing a good job.  Thumbs up!

 

I took a solo trip to the UK and Ireland in 1997 and ended up renting a car just so I could get to the Cliffs of Moher, which were a couple of hours from where I was staying. I did okay but had to really focus whenever I had to turn onto a new road but I rocked the traffic circles! It happened to be the day U2's Pop album was released but since I couldn't get the CD player in the car to work, I had to wait until I got to the Cliffs to listen to it with my Walkman. It was a sunny day, and I sat on a cliff top, looking out over the ocean while listening to the entire album. 

 

I thought it was strange that Kaitlyn and Chris had their backs to the ocean, which is where all the scenery is. However, I guess this way crew members didn't have to worry about accidentally backing up too far!

Edited July 1, 2015 by Scout Finch

[Palomar]

As an aside, I do want to say that I really admire the fact that Kaitlyn has not once apologized for having sex.

 

Well, actually the only one she has told so far was Chris Harrison and the cameraman filming her comments. She has pretty much said she made a mess of things and that it was a mistake  We shall see if she apologizes to whatever guys she tells about Nick that are left.  I imagine she will dump the remaining two who aren't FS-worthy without telling them. 

 

Personally I think she made a mess of the season and can't see it ending well, but we shall see.

[Bugs Meany]

As an aside, I do want to say that I really admire the fact that Kaitlyn has not once apologized for having sex.

She has, only it was the 21st century non-apology apology ("I'm not sorry for what I said, but I'm sorry if people were offended"). She said, in the last episode, she doesn't feel "guilty for [some euphemism]," but for how it might affect the other guys. And the teary line they've played several times, "You make one mistake and you feel like the worst person in the world." It's all the same.

ETA: She also called it a "stupid f---ing mistake" (ha) and said, "I feel bad" and "I feel awful."

This not-apologizing-for-having-sex business is true only to the extent that she hasn't literally used the word "apologize."

Edited July 1, 2015 by Bugs Meany

[MakeMeLaugh]

I don't get why the previous Bachelorettes are all rushing to Kaitlyn's defense in the media, like she's just so courageous, while Kaitlyn follows up this week all boo hooey about making a mistake and regretting it, to the camera over and over and over and to Chris Harrison. But don't apologize--stay proud, I guess.

I wonder if the hometowns are being cut to two because the show doesn't want the nonfinalists' families to entertain her and then watch the show and figure out she had been "reassuring" only Nick and Shawn, assuming they are the finalists, and didn't really give a crap about their sons.

Edited July 1, 2015 by MakeMeLaugh

[JenE4]

Kaitlyn kept crashing into the curb. Granted, I would do worse driving a stick on the opposite side of the road. But this goes to show how desperate we are to find something positive about her: gushing that she's a fabulous driver because she ONLY crashed into the curb X times. By the same token, she must be There for the Right Reasons because ONLY 8 guys (Tony, Ian, Kupah, Clint, Joshua, Shawn, Ben H, and Chris...am I forgetting anyone?) either flat out said or implied that she might NOT be There for the Right Reasons. ;-)

[maryshelley]

 

Well, actually the only one she has told so far was Chris Harrison and the cameraman filming her comments.

It was either in her comments on the balcony or in a talking head interview that she clearly said that she wasn't sorry she had sex with Nick, but just regretted the timing of it while she was getting to know the other men. I wasn't referring to something she said to someone else. She has also said in the media that she's 30 years old and she gets to make those decisions for herself.

 

I think it's hypocritical that people would think it's okay for her to sleep with several men in a row if it were within the structure of the Fleiss & Co. fantasy suites dates, but if she decides to sleep with someone on her own timeline, she's a whore. Andi did "fiancee type stuff" with several of the contestants in a row during the fantasy suite dates and didn't get this kind of criticism. 

 

 

What would you call a person who has sex with multiple partners within days of one another, broadcast on national television?

I would call her a sexually active adult with a high libido.

Edited July 1, 2015 by maryshelley

[MakeMeLaugh]

....

 

I think it's hypocritical that people would think it's okay for her to sleep with several men in a row if it were within the structure of the Fleiss & Co. fantasy suites dates, but if she decides to sleep with someone on her own timeline, she's a whore....

Personally I think the fantasy suites dates are creepy and really hate that episode (probably why I dislike this season where she thinks she is in fantasy suite land all the time). But that's me. If Show thinks we need to know all about shagging and wants to make it a central part of the series, I'll be watching something else next season.

[CaughtOnTape]

Just wanted to point out that her trysts were not broadcast on national television.  Moaning of one of them was.  It's not like a sex tape was broadcast and in fact no one has any concrete proof that she slept with Shawn, it's just conjecture.  So branding her as a whore is a TEENSY BIT premature.

[jb0495]

I've always thought it would be interesting if the show DID end once the Bachelor or ette had a "one" in mind. Then show sort of the aftermath, maybe propose that the couple actually GET married soon, like on ATFR. I remember JP & Ashley in Fiji saying as they walked along the beach "want to get married now?" and on Brad & Emily's ATFR it was actually supposed to be their wedding as a "surprise" to the audience I always thought that would be been really cool. 

[MakeMeLaugh]

Or just rotate in the runner up, Britt obviously in this case, and send the happy couple on their way. And only have a week in production like DWTS before airing the episode.

[kira28]

Kaitlynn is kind of an asshole. She's not funny. And as noted upthread all of the guys look tense and miserable whenever she's around. She's such a downer. Shawn was upset and instead of comforting him she was cold and somewhat cruel to him. I mean, if she slept with him and told him he was the one and then proceeds to ignore him, choose Jared for the one on one dates, give him group roses, have an overnight date with Nick, no wonder Shawn (I always want to type Cody for some reason) is so insecure if he really does love her.  I'm sure he expected her to go through the motions with the other guys but not to flat out ignore him, act coldly toward him and seem more excited to see some of the other men than him.  Wasn't Joe the one who said she came on this season because he saw Kaitlyn on Chris's show and wanted to meet her because he really liked her (or was that Jonathan I get those two confused?) Because if it was him he sure  got over having any interest in her after meeting her!  No one seems very into Kaitlyn except for Shawn.  Nick is totally faking it. Their chemistry seemed off when he was talking to her. They just don't seem into eachother anymore.  JMO. The rest of the guys seem over Kaitlyn. She's not very interesting and I can't imagine dating her. you would have to worry about her cheating on you all the time and or her yelling at you or being upset over everything you do. She's no fun. Just seems joyless and self centered.

[CaughtOnTape]

Kaitlynn is kind of an asshole. She's not funny. And as noted upthread all of the guys look tense and miserable whenever she's around. She's such a downer. Shawn was upset and instead of comforting him she was cold and somewhat cruel to him. I mean, if she slept with him and told him he was the one and then proceeds to ignore him, choose Jared for the one on one dates, give him group roses, have an overnight date with Nick, no wonder Shawn (I always want to type Cody for some reason) is so insecure if he really does love her.  I'm sure he expected her to go through the motions with the other guys but not to flat out ignore him, act coldly toward him and seem more excited to see some of the other men than him.  Wasn't Joe the one who said she came on this season because he saw Kaitlyn on Chris's show and wanted to meet her because he really liked her (or was that Jonathan I get those two confused?) Because if it was him he sure  got over having any interest in her after meeting her!  No one seems very into Kaitlyn except for Shawn.  Nick is totally faking it. Their chemistry seemed off when he was talking to her. They just don't seem into eachother anymore.  JMO. The rest of the guys seem over Kaitlyn. She's not very interesting and I can't imagine dating her. you would have to worry about her cheating on you all the time and or her yelling at you or being upset over everything you do. She's no fun. Just seems joyless and self centered.

 

Unless someone's making an ass out of themselves for her benefit or hitting someone else....then she's the life of the party because that stuff is SOOOOOOOO funny!  *rolls eyes*

[MakeMeLaugh]

I am not a Kaitlyn fan but I think she is getting a terrible edit (of course not being a Kaitlyn fan I have fun imagining WHY she is getting such a bad edit and what she did to piss Show off so much :) ). She could have been kind and comforting to Shawn six ways to Sunday but we didn't get shown that. So I have to take Show with a big grain of salt. And vodka.

[Alison]

Everyone has varying degrees of comfort with their own sexuality, different libidos and different ideas on casual sex, but calling Kaitlyn a whore is simply offensive. She's a 30-year-old woman who's trying to gauge her feelings, and sex is a big part of feelings/relationships, even if they're formed on TV.

 

Kaitlyn's behavior obviously doesn't gel with the majority of you, which is fine - everyone's entitled to their opinion - but [snip] She is not a whore, nor is she a slut. Like MaryShelley said, Kaitlyn is a sexually active adult with a high libido. She's not doing anything that countless other people do on a regular basis.

Edited July 4, 2015 by Rhondinella
lecturing others

[saber5055]

My mistake. I blame The Amazing Race where I've seen so many team driving drama once they hit the European countries, that I just started thinking they all drove on the opposite side. Of course now that I think about it most of the stress usually comes from having to drive a stick.

 

 

It's only in British Commonwealth countries where one drives on the left. All other countries drive on the right, as in the United States, Canada, Mexico ... yada yada.

 

Not being able to drive a stick ... oh, my. If one wants to impress a girlfriend by having a European sports car, one has to be able to drive a manual. Also, if someone wants to be a carjacker, better learn that skill as well. It's not all that hard to learn. So I am not impressed by Kaitlyn's motoring skills in the least.

What would you call a person who has sex with multiple partners within days of one another, broadcast on national television?

I would call her a sexually active adult with a high libido.

 

 

 

It's that "broadcast on national television" part that makes her something very different than an "adult with a high libido."

[Padma]

Everyone has varying degrees of comfort with their own sexuality, different libidos and different ideas on casual sex, but calling Kaitlyn a whore is simply offensive. She's a 30-year-old woman who's trying to gauge her feelings, and sex is a big part of feelings/relationships, even if they're formed on TV.

 

Kaitlyn's behavior obviously doesn't gel with the majority of you, which is fine - everyone's entitled to their opinion - but let's cool it with the name-calling, please. She is not a whore, nor is she a slut. Like MaryShelley said, Kaitlyn is a sexually active adult with a high libido. She's not doing anything that countless other people do on a regular basis.

I don't want to label her with a derogatory word, but I think few women are supposedly dating 8 other men, telling them what a great connection she has with each of them, and (secretly) having sex with a couple of them, but not letting the other men know about it.

 

Yes, leading people on is the name of this show, but having sex (secretly) isn't. It's not her loose morals that bothers me the most, or even how she can tell Shawn she loves him and he's the "one" then (secretly) have sex with Nick that bothers me the most. It's how comfortable she is with lying about her level of commitment and how completely lacking in empathy she is toward anyone else--whether its Nick and Shawn or Ben H (whom she completely disrespected in his own room) or all the others. 

 

It's not her morals that's the worst thing about Kaitlyn or even how boringly self-absorbed she is. (Seriously, does she ever talk about anything that doesn't directly involve something about HER?)  What bothers me the most is how incredibly stupid she is to act like this on this show! She's been a contestant before and clearly learned absolutely nothing from the experience.  And although she went through it herself with Chris' "nap" she doesn't seem to realize how insulting her behavior is to the other guys in the house who are -trying- to keep up the effort of exploring a relationship.

 

"You make your bed, you lie in it." I will say this old saying seems well suited to Kaitlyn.

[Alapaki]

It was either in her comments on the balcony or in a talking head interview that she clearly said that she wasn't sorry she had sex with Nick, but just regretted the timing of it while she was getting to know the other men. I wasn't referring to something she said to someone else. She has also said in the media that she's 30 years old and she gets to make those decisions for herself.

 

 

This week Kaitlyn said, almost literally, "I don't regret doing it, I just regret getting caught".  That's probably a lot more honest than most people, although I'm not entirely sure she understood what she was admitting with those comments.

 

She really should have the maturity to understand that oftentimes you can't separate an action from its consequences.  But that just seems to be dawning on her as this season was taping.

 

I am not a Kaitlyn fan but I think she is getting a terrible edit (of course not being a Kaitlyn fan I have fun imagining WHY she is getting such a bad edit and what she did to piss Show off so much :) ). She could have been kind and comforting to Shawn six ways to Sunday but we didn't get shown that. So I have to take Show with a big grain of salt. And vodka.

 

 

I think TPTB's turning on Kaitlyn was motivated by much more than Shawn's hissy-fits.  If it was all about Shawn, they'd simply shame him they way they did with Britt last season.  I tend to agree with those upthread who've speculated that by the time they got to Ireland the show was facing a "mutiny" by several of the remaining contestants.  

 

Something caused them to reconfigure the entire final quarter of the season.  If it was something they were happy about, they'd have highlighted it and made it a theme of the season.  The fact that everything is so veiled suggests to me that Kaitlyn did something out of line.  

 

And I don't necessarily think that the mere fact of sleeping around (If that's what happened) would be enough to turn things.  It may be that she wasn't discrete enough about it as far as the other guys.

 

Shawn was upset and instead of comforting him she was cold and somewhat cruel to him. I mean, if she slept with him and told him he was the one and then proceeds to ignore him, choose Jared for the one on one dates, give him group roses, have an overnight date with Nick, no wonder Shawn (I always want to type Cody for some reason) is so insecure if he really does love her.  I'm sure he expected her to go through the motions with the other guys but not to flat out ignore him, act coldly toward him and seem more excited to see some of the other men than him.

 

 

I don't want to defend Shawn, because I think fundamentally he's acted like a whiny-ass-titty-baby.  But, I agree that the fact that taping wasn't concluded and Kaitlyn still had to "go through the motions" with the other dates didn't prevent Kaitlyn from focusing on Shawn when they were together.  From what I understand, in past seasons when the Lead had made up their mind early on it was fairly obvious to everyone based on how they interacted when they were together (and that was before the show allowed for off-camera "intimacy").  In those instances the challenge for TPTB is to edit around the obvious connection (but if you watched those seasons having been spoiled, or re-watched after seeing the FRC, you could certainly see the signs).  

 

TPTB won't penalize a Lead for making their choice too obvious, because they're more invested in selling the fraud that the "journey" actually works than they are creating suspense over who gets picked.  What they will not abide, apparently, is any indication that either the Lead of the contestants aren't that into it.

[CaughtOnTape]

I don't want to label her with a derogatory word, but I think few women are supposedly dating 8 other men, telling them what a great connection she has with each of them, and (secretly) having sex with a couple of them, but not letting the other men know about it.

 

[snip] I think this is happening far more than you think it is.  And I KNOW men are doing it on the regular.  Telling someone you have a great connection with them does not equal whoreish behavior last time i checked.  And she's not "secretly" having sex with anyone (you make it sound like she's running to Nick's room every spare second she gets).  It's being broadcast on national television, as a few people have pointed out.  She's just not telling the other men she's involved with RIGHT THIS SECOND.....which all seems to get blown to shit next episode....so there's that.

 

She's not a whore. 

Edited July 4, 2015 by Rhondinella
"um"

[Alison]

I don't want to label her with a derogatory word, but I think few women are supposedly dating 8 other men, telling them what a great connection she has with each of them, and (secretly) having sex with a couple of them, but not letting the other men know about it.

 

Not to air my personal life, but there was a time where I was dating two guys (who eventually knew about each other), and was having "off-camera time" with both of them. This is not abnormal, and I'd say is probably how the majority of young people go about dating at first, then eventually settling into a serious, possibly monogamous relationship. Obviously Kaitlyn's situation is markedly different, being on TV and all, but what she's doing is very much the norm. It's sad that in 2015, a show like The Bachelorette is trying to put us back in 1955.

[ElectricCityy]

If I were a contestant on this show and I found out the lead was sleeping with people before the fantasy suite, people that were not ME, I'd bolt. Why stay? They've made their decision. I don't think Kaitlyn is a "whore" for sleeping with a guy while she's dating 8 other men. I do think it's shitty that the other men have to continue to pursue her under the impression that they have a chance with her, completely oblivious to what is actually going on. Had they known about the Nick sex, or even Kaitlyn telling Shawn he was one I think most of them would've wanted to be spared the humiliation. But they signed up for this so they have to deal with Kaitlyn making them look like fools.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I don't want to label her with a derogatory word, but I think few women are supposedly dating 8 other men, telling them what a great connection she has with each of them, and (secretly) having sex with a couple of them, but not letting the other men know about it.

 

This is the actual premise of the show you're watching.  This is like me watching Project Runway and being upset that the designs are being criticized, or watching Survivor and being upset that people are being voted off of an island.

[Ketzel]

I am not a Kaitlyn fan but I think she is getting a terrible edit (of course not being a Kaitlyn fan I have fun imagining WHY she is getting such a bad edit and what she did to piss Show off so much :) ). She could have been kind and comforting to Shawn six ways to Sunday but we didn't get shown that. So I have to take Show with a big grain of salt. And vodka.

If you insist on taking the show with salt, I recommend tequila and a lime. :)

[leighdear]

Just because she's sleeping with guys, getting free travel, free clothes, free food & wine and everything else doesn't mean she's a whore.  it just means she's "building her brand".  Whatever that may be. 

[Mu Shu]

I wonder if they will even have a Men tell All segment.     Even if  the producers don't like her, they'll still try to protect their brand, won't they?    I got the feeling that CH doesn't much like her, and he's been really checked out this season.

 

It couldn't have been better with Britt, though.    It  would have sucked as much, but in a different way.   If they do have Men tell All,  it will be worth all this depressing crapfest  to see some of these guys locked and loaded, which we likely wouldn't get with Britt.   Kaitlyn, you got a cool 250k.   At this point, you're being paid to take the piss.   Stop sniveling and pull your big girl draws up.     

 

I'm sorry, but I don't buy that she's "figuring out her emotions" or whatever.   She's a paid actress.   She's overpaid, because she can't play her role even for one episode.     I couldn't care less who she has sex with,  her demeanor is the problem.   Sneaky, surly, and really self centered.   Also, is she really a dancer?   She looks so frail and brittle, like she has early onset osteoporosis.    I seem to remember her on the Bachelor as being slim, but with curvy hips and boobs. 

 

Oh well, it was worth it for Cupcake's Tony award winning, chewing scenery, projecting all the way to the cheap seats in Schenectady Mesnicking on the freaking cliffs of Moher.       He deserves something, maybe  he can be the next Bachelor's dental consultant? 

[this-one-is-mine]

I find it so odd that Chris Harrison came to Kaitlyn and basically said "we have to rewrite the rules because you're such a skank. It's only fair that all the men get to bang you." Felt gross and sexist.

[shok]

I wonder if they will even have a Men tell All segment.     Even if  the producers don't like her, they'll still try to protect their brand, won't they?    I got the feeling that CH doesn't much like her, and he's been really checked out this season.

 

[snip]

 

Protect their brand? What brand? If it attracts eyeballs on a Monday night, they'll twist their story lines and bury their leads in a heartbeat. They made Ashley look like a moony lovestruck ninny when Bentley bolted the show. They made Jillian's pick Ed look like a lying idiot and even blatantly implied he was a terrible lover and couldn't get it up. They made Courtney look like a conniving witch and Flapjack a blundering dolt. They made Juan Pablo look like an ass and succeeded in editing a version of him that resulted in him being the most hated bachelor ever. I could go on and on picking someone out from every single season of this show. They're now doing the same thing to Kaitlyn this season but it certainly isn't unique and isn't the first time they have thrown people under the bus.

 

Fleiss and his minions like Chris Harrison don't care about how the person looks on tv or how their reputation is maligned after their editing monkeys get through with them. Some blame can be placed on the contestants who willingly put themselves forward to be made fools of just to get their fifteen minutes of reality show fame but I'm very sure not a single one of them thought going into it that the producers with whom they had built up good relationships during their original shows would so easily and happily stab them in the back just to get some usable footage for a hokey tv show.  My disdain is reserved solely for Fleiss and not for the suckers who allowed themselves to get caught up in the Bachelor/ette cesspool, dumb as they might be.

Edited July 4, 2015 by Rhondinella
criticizing posters

[Lone Wolf]

LOL at how these guys are being left behind like castaways - Bromance Guy on an island while K. sails away, and Dr. Cupcake on the Cliffs of Moher while she "gets to ze choppah!" (reference every movie Arnold ever made) and flies away. Thank God the sound chick was there to keep him from jumping.

 

Speaking of which, how OTT was Dr. C's heart-rending despair over being rejected? I haven't seen acting that bad since...well, since Kaitlyn was "crying" under her Irish wool scarf about having to make the decision to leave him about 90 seconds prior.  Buck up, Buddy - you're a shoe-in for BIP, if not the next Bach.

 

As for the rest of it, pon.der.ous. Impulsively schtup some guy, and then mope around about it for 2 hours. Other than when you aren't, because you're making out/having fun with other guys, but then be sure you get back to the mopin'.  Oy gevalt...I guess the point is we're all supposed to identify and sympathize with Our Heroine's conflicted angst, but I'm kind of an actions-have-consequences guy, so she gets nothin' from me.  

[C76]

LOL at how these guys are being left behind like castaways - Bromance Guy on an island while K. sails away, and Dr. Cupcake on the Cliffs of Moher while she "gets to ze choppah!" (reference every movie Arnold ever made) and flies away. Thank God the sound chick was there to keep him from jumping.

 

Speaking of which, how OTT was Dr. C's heart-rending despair over being rejected? I haven't seen acting that bad since...well, since Kaitlyn was "crying" under her Irish wool scarf about having to make the decision to leave him about 90 seconds prior.  Buck up, Buddy - you're a shoe-in for BIP, if not the next Bach.

 

As for the rest of it, pon.der.ous. Impulsively schtup some guy, and then mope around about it for 2 hours. Other than when you aren't, because you're making out/having fun with other guys, but then be sure you get back to the mopin'.  Oy gevalt...I guess the point is we're all supposed to identify and sympathize with Our Heroine's conflicted angst, but I'm kind of an actions-have-consequences guy, so she gets nothin' from me.  

Thanks to UnREAL, when I watched, I couldn't help but wonder what sort of shenanigans the producers pulled to get him to react that way. At the same time, I imagine that being on The Bachelor(ette) is stressful and annoying as hell in the first place.

 

Also, the circumstances surrounding Kaitlyn's rejection turned me off. You're going to dump someone, so you take them out on a date--a picnic in of the world's loveliest natural settings? Geez. Maybe this show does that sort of thing all the time. I can't remember. Nevertheless, I thought it was sickening. 

 

Couldn't she have just had a chat with Cupcake in a back room somewhere?

 

Speaking of what I do and don't remember about this show (I've skipped certain seasons), I can't get over the number of times this season that I've said,"Do these people not remember which show they're on?" I don't think it was wise for Kaitlyn to have been intimate with Nick. (FWIW, I'd feel the same if the genders were reversed.) That said, if you're going to have concerns about your partner not being monogamous, this ain't the place for you!

[Padma]

Not to air my personal life, but there was a time where I was dating two guys (who eventually knew about each other), and was having "off-camera time" with both of them. This is not abnormal, and I'd say is probably how the majority of young people go about dating at first, then eventually settling into a serious, possibly monogamous relationship. Obviously Kaitlyn's situation is markedly different, being on TV and all, but what she's doing is very much the norm. It's sad that in 2015, a show like The Bachelorette is trying to put us back in 1955.

Would you feel the same way if it had been Juan Pablo or Chris doing the same thing? Not challenging your opinion (we disagree, but there's no "right answer" imo, just opinions on this) but I'm curious if you have the same standard for both men and women.

 

Because I really felt JP got raked over the coals for much less than Kaitlyn's done, yet so many defend her who hated him.

 

As for me, I don't think being honest with men who are interested in you is "putting us back in 1955". It's not about who or how many you're sleeping with but the circumstances. (And what I think was a "quickie" in Ben's room while he was in the shower...is it 1955 to have some manners and consideration? I also think Shawn is lacking there, btw, not just Kaitlyn).

[tess17]

Sleeping with multiple people while not in a monogamous relationship and not being up front with the other guys is questionable behavior in my book. It is not how I would act or how I would want to be treated. call it "slut shaming" if you want but I find it to be shameful behavior for a man or a woman. If I were her parents, I would be embarrassed to see this on television. I don't care if it's 1955 or 2025.

I think this behavior is also impeding her from finding the " real connection" that she is supposedly looking for.

[kazza]

It really just seems to me that she's bought into the complete fantasy world of hot! guys! wanting! you! all the time! Add alcohol 24/7, and I'm not surprised we're seeing what we're seeing.

 

In past seasons, when a Bachelor/ette was having a hard time, they would bring in a friend or a trusted advisor to act as a sounding board. Heck, even Chris Harrison has been MIA.

 

I agree it seems something is up. Either she picked her F1 way early and they're editing the story to the nines or else they've decided to go completely rogue. 

[Beebee111]

 

[snip]

 

[snip] The term 'whore' is derogatory and even those who have sex for money should have the dignity of being called commercial sex workers.

 

Aside from that, I do think there are legitimate criticisms or concerns about Kaitlyn's behavior (and that similar concerns have been leveled against male leads) that are not sexist - but rather about "what is the decent and kind way to treat others"  and is Kaitlyn doing that?

 

Although as an adult Kaitlyn is entitled to have all the sex she wants with whomever she wants, I think adults have the responsibility to be open and honest with sexual partners for both sexual health safety and moral reasons.

 

First, there is no such thing as 100% safe sex - condoms break and don't protect from all STDS so there are always risks when you have multiple partners. Second, sex has a strong emotional component for both men and women. Is it it fair to have sex with someone knowing they have different expectations from you about what it means? Is it fair to keep information from a dating partner who cares for you deeply emotionally (see Shawn in this case) while you (see Kaitlyn) are having secret sex' with other people (i.e., Nick). YMMV. 

 

I think the slut-shaming bit comes in where the producers have most likely hidden (edited out)  this type of behavior from male leads whereas in Kaitlyn's (a woman's case) they are highlighting it. Of course, for all I know this could all be fake and Kaitlyn and Nick received a 'bonus' for pretending to do it on camera - so I try not to take it too seriously.

 

 

This is not abnormal, and I'd say is probably how the majority of young people go about dating at first, then eventually settling into a serious, possibly monogamous relationship.

 

Definitely not abnormal. I will say though, that teens/young adults who have multiple partners may grossly overestimate the extent to which "others are doing it too." There's research that shows men over-estimate sexual partners, while women often underestimate when asked. Not surprising given different societal standards for men and women.

Edited July 4, 2015 by Rhondinella
critiquing other posters

[Fannysue]

Thanks to UnREAL, when I watched, I couldn't help but wonder what sort of shenanigans the producers pulled to get him to react that way.

 

Maybe they told him his cat or dog or mother died!

[Temperance]

I'm confused by the whole timeline events versus the normal course of the show. Normally they do hometown dates, but then normally  they get to six people and two eliminated and get to four and then hometown dates. According to Bachelorette website in the cast section, there are five men left on the show. (Nick, Shawn, Jared, Joe, and Ben H) so it would seem that there is one too many guys to hometown even with the two hour format. While I realize there has been a lot of drama this season, I'm not convinced a lot of what goes on in terms of editing is simply TPTB trying to mess the format to make interesting, different and trying to mix it up and see if the audience sticks. 

[NikSac]

I can't believe I almost forgot to mention my favorite awkward moment of the show. I can't remember exactly who Kaitlyn was talking to (one of the Bens maybe?), but they were talking about how "something" had happened and you could see Kaitlyn frantically trying to figure out if they were referring to the Shawn situation or the Nick situation while she fumbled over her words. I laughed so hard watching her scramble to basically ask "what do you think happened?" rather than "I've done a couple of things, which one did you mean?"  I thought for sure she was going to accidentally confess to the wrong thing that the guy didn't already suspect.

 

Sorry to quote myself, but I see that ABC too enjoyed this moment.  They posted a clip of it - it was with Ben H.  Starts at around 1:05: http://abc.go.com/shows/the-bachelorette/video/VDKA0_3s5bl0sg.

[Armchair Critic]

I don't see much about Katelyn that makes me think she would be good stepmother material to Shawn's child, wonder if he even thought about that?

[truthaboutluv]

Shawn has a child? I can't recall him ever mentioning that. I thought only JJ had a kid.

[JenE4]

A couple weeks ago, Shawn was showing pictures of his niece and/or nephew. At first I thought he was showing pictures of his own child, too, so that might be what Armchair is thinking of.

[JudyObscure]

If I were her parents, I would be embarrassed to see this on television. I don't care if it's 1955 or 2025.

 

That alone would have kept me from inviting Nick into my bedroom.   I did lots of things when I was young that would have mortified my parents,  but, mercifully, they never had to know about it, much less  all their friends, coworkers and neighbors.  

 

1955 wasn't so bad, only 5% of children were born to single mothers.

[anony mouse]

The way I see it, there's two big things I have a problem with Kaitlyn, and it has nothing to do with her gender or being salty Britt wasn't picked.

With the fantasy suites, it's nebulous whether people actually sleep together or not. I still find it distasteful, but for the most part, contestants are discreet. I've never gotten the sense its a free for all to sleep with each person. Sure, it may happen, but it's also possible that the participants take the time to talk without cameras. At any rate, that's a far cry from wrapping your legs around someone in a public street on camera and then blatantly taking him back to your room, complete with "oops, I forgot to turn my mike off!" Nick is getting equal blame from me in that situation, as is any bachelor who's exhibiting like that for the cameras. Gender has nothing to do with it.

The second big issue is this whole relationship ethics scenario. Sure, sleep with as many men (or women) as you want, but don't do it under false pretenses. That was my beef with Andi last year. Own your choices and be honest in your words and actions. It's one thing to sleep with multiple partners, but it's another to tell each one "you're the one." Again, not a gender issue - I hold men and women to the same standards.

Considering I slammed Andi for some of the same things, this has nothing to do with the producers picking Britt. I simply find Kaitlyn's actions to be lacking in class and ethics, and if she were a man doing the same things, I would still be calling him out.

[Alison]

Would you feel the same way if it had been Juan Pablo or Chris doing the same thing? Not challenging your opinion (we disagree, but there's no "right answer" imo, just opinions on this) but I'm curious if you have the same standard for both men and women.

 

Because I really felt JP got raked over the coals for much less than Kaitlyn's done, yet so many defend her who hated him.

 

As for me, I don't think being honest with men who are interested in you is "putting us back in 1955". It's not about who or how many you're sleeping with but the circumstances. (And what I think was a "quickie" in Ben's room while he was in the shower...is it 1955 to have some manners and consideration? I also think Shawn is lacking there, btw, not just Kaitlyn).

Of course. Both men and women have a right to have sex with whoever they want. When men do it, it's laughed off as them being cads, players, etc., but women are immediately slapped with much more derogatory terms - slut, whore, skank. (This is also my first season of the Bachelor or the Bachelorette, so I have no past knowledge about what others have done.)

My "putting us back in 1955" comment was not about being honest with your partners - that's a given, regardless of the year. It was directed at the attitudes of the producers, the media and even some people on here who have said some truly vile things about a grown woman being sexual. The fact that Kaitlyn had to go on a goodwill media tour of sorts after the episode aired where she slept with Nick is ridiculous.