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Give The Devil His Due: Lucifer In The Media

Lisin

By Lisin
in Lucifer [V]

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rainsmom

rainsmom

1 minute ago, Mabinogia said:

The main thing I got out of that article is the show runners had no idea what they were doing and were making it up as they went along. Shame, really, but probably best it got cancelled since they clearly didn't know what they were doing other than putting the Devil in "clever" situations while thinking they were cleverly twisting tropes on their ear. 

The other thing I got, though, was that the network was never going to let it be what would have made it an amazing show: the network neutered Lucifer and insisted that it be a light procedural, when the best elements were the DEVIL and the other supernaturals in LA. All the really cool ways they could have gone, they would never have been allowed to go.

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CheshireCat
CheshireCat

Netflix picked up Lucifer https://tvline.com/2018/06/15/lucifer-netflix-season-4-renewed-returning/

Featherhat
Featherhat

Hey, don't just blame fangirls, by which I guess you mean "Deckerstar" shippers. This show failed in about 50 other ways as well this season. I didn't like the romance but I also thought the rest of t

rainsmom
rainsmom

I don't want them to go risqué. I do want them to un-neuter Lucifer, and let him be the DEVIL. He's boring as a lovesick, neutered puppy. Let the characters be realistic unto themselves -- go DARKER,

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CheshireCat

CheshireCat

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

The main thing I got out of that article is the show runners had no idea what they were doing and were making it up as they went along. Shame, really, but probably best it got cancelled since they clearly didn't know what they were doing other than putting the Devil in "clever" situations while thinking they were cleverly twisting tropes on their ear. 

I will never understand how anyone can write like that. You can't tell a story if you don't know what story you want to tell. Some can live without it but I don't think Lucifer was one of those show. There were just too many things that could have happened: Lucifer could have become human and mortal due to Chloe, Lucifer could have become human and vulnerable around Chloe but retained his immortality otherwise, Lucifer could have decided that he wanted to go back to Hell, Lucifer could have decided that he wanted to stay the devil but also stay on earth, Lucifer could have found some way to divide his time between Hell and earth, Lucifer could have found a way to make up with his father and is able to go to Heaven and Hell. And then there are Chloe, Amenadiel, Father, Maze and Linda. They all have a strong influence on Lucifer, so I think they needed to determine where these characters are supposed to go (Maze and Chloe especially).

So yeah, if you have a show with a complex set-up like this one it's bound to become a mess if you make it up as you go along.

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Pindrop

Pindrop

6 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

The two worst things about the show. Oye. I loved Maze's relationship with both Linda and Chloe, as I felt it grounded her a lot. And I found one love triangle cringeworthy while the other was ludicrous. Maybe a little network interference isn't such a bad thing sometimes. 

The main thing I got out of that article is the show runners had no idea what they were doing and were making it up as they went along. Shame, really, but probably best it got cancelled since they clearly didn't know what they were doing other than putting the Devil in "clever" situations while thinking they were cleverly twisting tropes on their ear. 

Maybe they were subverting the "subverting tropes" trope. 

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Happy Harpy

Happy Harpy

8 hours ago, rainsmom said:

The other thing I got, though, was that the network was never going to let it be what would have made it an amazing show: the network neutered Lucifer and insisted that it be a light procedural, when the best elements were the DEVIL and the other supernaturals in LA. All the really cool ways they could have gone, they would never have been allowed to go.

It's a matter of opinions. I'm rarely interested in 100% supernatural shows. I liked both aspects of Lucifer, and I loved the human characters as much as the supernatural ones. The procedural gave a solid ground for the supernatural characters to interact; the rich character development in general avoided the biggest trap of the procedural genre, i.e. ending up generic and soulless (I'm looking at you, CBS). The strength of Lucifer in the first two seasons was how it balanced both parts of its nature and entwined them to create a unique cocktail and to me, it made it an amazing show.

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Pindrop

Pindrop

(edited)
3 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

It's a matter of opinions. I'm rarely interested in 100% supernatural shows. I liked both aspects of Lucifer, and I loved the human characters as much as the supernatural ones. The procedural gave a solid ground for the supernatural characters to interact; the rich character development in general avoided the biggest trap of the procedural genre, i.e. ending up generic and soulless (I'm looking at you, CBS). The strength of Lucifer in the first two seasons was how it balanced both parts of its nature and entwined them to create a unique cocktail and to me, it made it an amazing show.

I agree. I take the example of iZombie, which attempted to move away from the weekly procedural towards a larger over-arcing story and as a result, both the procedural and long-form elements felt underdeveloped, superficial and tonally  inconsistent. iZombie has become notably worse over this season.

The problem with Lucifer was pantsing rather than planning, resulting in all the issues we have discussed, and which was exacerbated by lengthening the season and adding even more rudderless flip-flopping episodes involving known characters acting like aliens in order to drag us limping towards the next contrived and banal plot point.

Edited by Pindrop
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rainsmom

rainsmom

48 minutes ago, Delphi said:

What exactly did the crew do wrong? Did I miss an article?

No article. My opinion. They wrote 22 sucky episodes out of a season of 24. Or, perhaps more fairly, 2 excellent episodes, and handful of reasonably entertaining ones, and the rest a suckfest.

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Mabinogia

Mabinogia

If they can make the show go on without Lauren German I'm in. If she's still there, I probably won't bother, unless I hear that they completely changed the premise back to the Devil lives on Earth and less The Devil loves a boring human.

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Ria

Ria

2 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

If they can make the show go on without Lauren German I'm in. If she's still there, I probably won't bother, unless I hear that they completely changed the premise back to the Devil lives on Earth and less The Devil loves a boring human.

Exactly. I cannot watch another season of Lucifer mooning over Chloe. Or a season of Chloe deciding if she can love the Devil. The romances all need to go.

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GaT

GaT

2 hours ago, Ria said:

Exactly. I cannot watch another season of Lucifer mooning over Chloe. Or a season of Chloe deciding if she can love the Devil.

Or another season of Lucifer & his daddy issues.

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CheshireCat

CheshireCat

3 hours ago, GaT said:

Or another season of Lucifer & his daddy issues.

Considering that Lucifer realized that getting back the wings and retrieving his devil face wasn't Dad's doing, I would hope that they'd move forward in a potential fourth season. Lucifer exploring who he is (if he controls the wings and his devil face, did he want to become the Devil? Is that who he is after all because he likes to punish people (which I think we learned in previous seasons that he does) and why did the wings keep coming back? Why did he want them to?) might be a nice idea.

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ketose

ketose

(edited)

Surprising that they picked up a DC comic character.

Does this mean cursing and nudity? I think that would really add to the, uh, authenticity of the character.

Edited by ketose
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Unclejosh

Unclejosh

Great news!  I hope they will be able to make it a little more adult even if not outright R, then can still make it basic cable level of cursing and partial nudity and graphic violence as needed.

The shorter season allows for tighter scripting and without network interference and insistence on procedural format hopefully they can delve into the mythology a little more. I don't mind some procedural elements but it isn't as required for a binge show now that it won't be weekly.

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Loandbehold

Loandbehold

5 minutes ago, MostlyC said:

/jaw drops to the floor.

Me, I'm gobsmacked. So, apparently 10 episodes. Hopefully this makes for a much tighter season w/ less filler. One wish fulfilled. Other wishes include making Ella competent once more, Luci being devilish and not mawkish, Maze being demony towards those who deserve it and not to her friends. Amendadude, Linda, and Dan being connected to the main arc.

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Happy Harpy

Happy Harpy

2 minutes ago, ketose said:

Surprising that they picked up a DC comic character.

Does this mean cursing and nudity? I think that would really add to the, uh, authenticity of the character.

Chloe and Lucifer are going to have some R-rated sex, LOL.

Not sure, though. The shows Netflix directly produces lately are more family-oriented (biggest success is Stranger Things, quite tame from what I heard? second best is Lost In Space and it's definitely family).

10 episodes will definitely ditch the fillers.

I'll watch if the producers announce "we un-dumbed the female characters, no more love triangles, sorry about that".

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CheshireCat

CheshireCat

6 minutes ago, ApathyMonger said:

Hooray!

I hope this doesn't encourage other showrunners to end their seasons on cliffhangers when they might get cancelled though.

Don't most of them do that already anyway?

 

I don't think Lucifer would have been picked up without the fan support. I'm not saying that it was picked up because of it, just that it probably played a role.

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ketose

ketose

5 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

Chloe and Lucifer are going to have some R-rated sex, LOL.

Not sure, though. The shows Netflix directly produces lately are more family-oriented (biggest success is Stranger Things, quite tame from what I heard? second best is Lost In Space and it's definitely family).

Tell that to GLOW.

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Happy Harpy

Happy Harpy

2 minutes ago, CheshireCat said:

I don't think Lucifer would have been picked up without the fan support. I'm not saying that it was picked up because of it, just that it probably played a role.

Probably a bigger deal with WB with several ramifications. But sci-fi fans and shippers are the most loyal/enduring audiences and it might have factored a bit in the decision.

Just now, ketose said:

Tell that to GLOW.

To what?

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ketose

ketose

16 minutes ago, ApathyMonger said:

Hooray!

I hope this doesn't encourage other showrunners to end their seasons on cliffhangers when they might get cancelled though.

A cliffhanger didn't help Kevin (Probably) Saves the World.

 

1 minute ago, Happy Harpy said:

To what?

GLOW is a Netflix series with some nudity and pretty adult humor. There's also Dear White People, which isn't exactly family fare.

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Delphi

Delphi

12 minutes ago, ketose said:

A cliffhanger didn't help Kevin (Probably) Saves the World.

 

GLOW is a Netflix series with some nudity and pretty adult humor. There's also Dear White People, which isn't exactly family fare.

 Dear white people is so good too.  I use it for woke lessons for stupid friends. 

 

I think fan reaction defintely played  a part in the pick up.   Maybe not as vocal as veronica mars fandom but the Twitter community really showed Netflix and other streaming services that there was a huge audience,  especially internationally. 

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Happy Harpy

Happy Harpy

7 minutes ago, ketose said:

GLOW is a Netflix series with some nudity and pretty adult humor. There's also Dear White People, which isn't exactly family fare.

Oh, I see. But it's not Sense 8 level, right?

I don't know what they'll do for Lucifer but if they're smart, they won't veer off too much away from Lucifer as it was on FOX -well, seasons 1 and 2, because they still need an audience and the best is to keep the one the show already has. Not that I won't welcome a little more risqué stuff, but I thought that Lucifer was at its best when playing around the network limits.

Maybe they can change the procedural network format to a big case or two over the season. It would allow more in deep writing (mind, off the gutter!).

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rainsmom

rainsmom

I don't want them to go risqué. I do want them to un-neuter Lucifer, and let him be the DEVIL. He's boring as a lovesick, neutered puppy. Let the characters be realistic unto themselves -- go DARKER, not necessarily more sexy.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

I'm shocked Netflix picked it up. Hopefully they have time to write a better season. I wouldn't mind it going a little more adult or darker. It was quite tame being a show about the Devil and crime. Gotham was on earlier and that show went batshit crazy with their gruesome deaths. 

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katmax

katmax

Cast reactions to getting season 4 on netflix. News spread pretty quickly. Twitter has gone nuts.

https://deadline.com/2018/06/lucifer-tom-ellis-aimee-garcia-lesley-brandt-react-show-resurrection-netflix-1202411697/

Now I've got no excuses, and will have to sign up to netflix. Hopefully the show will now be free of the restrictions fox imposed on it and will be free to explore the more supernatural aspects of the story and not be chained into a procedural story every episode. We might finally get the series for at least 1 season that the show runners wanted to make from the start. If we only get one short season (10 epiosdes) I hope they make it kick-ass and every episode count.

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kassygreene

kassygreene

10 minutes ago, katmax said:

Cast reactions to getting season 4 on netflix. News spread pretty quickly. Twitter has gone nuts.

https://deadline.com/2018/06/lucifer-tom-ellis-aimee-garcia-lesley-brandt-react-show-resurrection-netflix-1202411697/

Now I've got no excuses, and will have to sign up to netflix. Hopefully the show will now be free of the restrictions fox imposed on it and will be free to explore the more supernatural aspects of the story and not be chained into a procedural story every episode. We might finally get the series for at least 1 season that the show runners wanted to make from the start. If we only get one short season (10 epiosdes) I hope they make it kick-ass and every episode count.

But look at the pluses - now you can watch the rest of the DC Comics series.

And The Crown.  

And Fawlty Towers.

And Transporter: The Series.

And SlowTV.

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rainsmom

rainsmom

I'll be interested to see what they do with the writing staff. Snarkiness aside, Netflix and its ilk get the best writers, because they don't stifle creativity. The networks, including FOX... don't. 

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Gigi43

Gigi43

Wow. I know cast members have been hopeful on Instagram but I thought that was purely wishful thinking for their own employment and to make fans happy. I didn't think there was a shot it would come back. Especially on Netflix since Hulu had an exclusive deal when it was on Fox and it's in the DC 'verse.

 

I'd love to see the show revert to season 1 and 2 quality without the restraints of network censors, but, I don't know how hopeful I am. They might look at season 3 and look at that fans stayed through that inote address of looking at what made viewers drop off. Also if the cast is cut  (I don't know? I'm not hopeful for Amenadiel to pop back to Earth and Dan getting a real story without Charlotte. ) But I would like to see everyone -everyone - try to function with the truth out in the open. And as I've said before, Trixie wondering what tookind her parents so long to catch on. I'll give it a chance since I have netflix and I can't say there are other shows I am too hyped about. 

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katmax

katmax

I went to the Melbourne convention panels where Lauren and Lesley-Ann talked about their time on Lucifer.  The halls where the talks were given were big and mostly full on both days. There was a lot they filmed that fox forced them to drop out. Mostly darker scenes of the type that fans have been wanting for ages.  They also filmed at Trixie-Maze apology scene but didn't have time to fit it in (42 minutes per episode) at the end of the season. Netflix should allow longer episodes with the show runners being able to add in the darker and mythology type stories they have been wanting to tell since season 1. 

Fox added extra episodes in seasons 2 and 3. It might seem generous and a good idea but it upset badly the story-telling balance of both seasons and their insistence on procedural stories stopped a lot of exploration in new directions.  I'm confident that on netflix we will have less episodes but a better overall season.

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Pindrop

Pindrop

WOW, I did not expect that given the last season. If we get back to season 1 and 2 quality, then I am happy; but if we continue with season 3 quality I will soon turn it off. 

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retrograde

retrograde

Holy shit, I genuinely didn't think this would get picked up due to ratings. Netflix really is best case scenario, too -- less bloated seasons, fewer network content restrictions and less reliance on the police procedural stuff. What a nice surprise! 

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Sile

Sile

Dammit.... I have Amazon Prime, but not Netflix.

Meanwhile, you may direct all thanks for the pickup my way.  My DVR hadn't picked up some of the episodes this season, so my continuity was all messed up in a season without a lot of stand alones.  So, I had a bunch of unwatched eps while I was waiting for repeats to fill in my gaps.  When it got cancelled I went ahead and deleted all of them because, what was the point?  Argggh, I now have some work to do, apparently.  And I hate watching stuff On Demand without the ability to ff through adverts or to not being able to catch back up when I go back to see something I thought I missed.

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