S01.E09: Pimento

[SoSueMe]

As much as I hate Chuck now, you've gotta hand it to Michael McKean for bringing it. Everyone assumes Jonathan Banks's "I broke my boy" episode will get submitted for Emmy consideration in the supporting actor category, but McKean's "I know you! You're Slippin' Jimmy!" rant from tonight might deserve to be in the mix too.

I know, right? Who wouda thunk it? One half of Lenny and Squiggy doing that caliber of work.

[SoSueMe]

Well, I think I am rapidly using up my "likes" (I guess there is an allotment?) but I must say the posters on this thread really have great insight and I seriously "like" all the posts I've read. Even the ones sympathetic to Chuck and Howard have given me good food for thought. I don't know what I'm hoping for in the finale but I'm sure I won't be disappointed. (Maybe a little more heartbroken, though.)

Edited March 31, 2015 by SoSueMe

[Schweedie]

The way I see it, Jimmy has Slippin' Jimmy inside of him, and could go that way--but the other side of him, the decent, hard-working side of him, only needs encouragement in order to flower and predominate. Encouragement that sadly he's never going to get. 

 

Chuck seems to think that ending up as Lawyer Slippin' Jimmy is Jimmy's predestined fate. It is his fate, but it was never predestined.

 

Excellent summary of the situation as I see it.

 

One thing I noticed that kind of broke my heart a little at the end - even now, when Jimmy's sole purpose for going over was to confront Chuck about his lies and tell him he's done, and after Chuck himself has begun to realise his illness is in his head? Jimmy still left his phone in the mailbox before going in.

[Fisher King]

BTW... is Vince Gilligan getting too much credit for this show? Peter Gould has actually written more episodes this season and they are both running the writer's room. But VG is often the sole showrunner cited when this show gets praised.

 

I personally don't mind VG getting a lot of praise since this team is together because of him.  I think Thomas Schnauz wrote and directed this episode.

[duVerre]

The worst moment of all, for me, in terms of heartbreak, was when Chuck assured Jimmy that he would "badger" Howard to hire him someday. Jimmy replies:  "I'm so lucky to have you looking out for me."

 

A lesser actor would have delivered that line with anger and sarcasm, spread on thick. Odenkirk hinted at those things, but his voice was also full of sorrow that they, the McGill brothers, have been playing this charade for all these years. It seemed like he was hearing himself--knowing that he might have said the exact same words, even a week before, and believed them completely. It was as though he was at a vantage point where he could see the whole tragedy of the situation, the pointlessness of it and the waste.

 

He moves out of that, of course, as the scene keeps going. Telling Chuck to exercise the nuclear option if he really wanted the brothers to work together was perfect -- fast and merciless, from a strategic point of view.  He had him cornered, like a liar on the witness stand. Great lawyering. 

 

 

[editorgrrl]

Loved the pimento sandwich bit. The Masters golf tournament is coming within a fortnight and they are world-famous for offering them to their patrons in a green wrapper (they don't have fans or crowds, doncha know) at a most reasonable price, along with coke-colas. I think the price is now all the way up to $4 for that pairing. I'm trying to discern the deeper meaning of VG's choice of "Pimento" for the ep title, though. Any ideas?

Pimento was in the story & ends in "o." There's nothing deeper to it. On the "Better Call Saul" Insider podcast for last week's episode, the writer said he wanted it to be called "Spoliation" (a word he learned from his lawyer sister), but it didn't fit the "o" pattern—so it had to be "Rico."

 

Edited to add that my very first pimento cheese spread experience was a fail. Kraft brand has the following ingredients: Philadelphia brand cream cheese, sugar, and pimento. It was way too sweet for me. 

Edited March 31, 2015 by editorgrrl

[ghoulina]

One thing I noticed that kind of broke my heart a little at the end - even now, when Jimmy's sole purpose for going over was to confront Chuck about his lies and tell him he's done, and after Chuck himself has begun to realise his illness is in his head? Jimmy still left his phone in the mailbox before going in.

 

Plus, he had to have picked up all that ice and meat and everything after he already knew what had happened. He could have completely left Chuck in the lurch. But he gave him enough to get by for a minute whilst figuring something else out. Jimmy is a much better brother than Chuck deserves.

 

 

He moves out of that, of course, as the scene keeps going. Telling Chuck to exercise the nuclear option if he really wanted the brothers to work together was perfect -- fast and merciless, from a strategic point of view.  He had him cornered, like a liar on the witness stand. Great lawyering.

 

Exactly! The way that entire scene played out between the two of them just proved what a great lawyer Jimmy in fact is!

[Latverian Diplomat]

Chuck has a point and I certainly can see his esoteric, philosophical view of the law, but my heart breaks for Jimmy. 

Yeah, I misread Chuck's reaction to Jimmy's degree. I had the impression that he thought "this is useless, Jimmy, sorry you wasted your time". Instead he thought "it offends me that this degree makes you just as much a lawyer in the eyes of the law as I am". And Chuck has probably crossed swords with many dishonest and incompetent lawyers over the years, and has contempt for them. He didn't want such a person as a brother.

 

As harsh as that may be, the real problem is Chuck's years (I think?) of sabotage and deceit since Jimmy passed the bar. If they had tonight's argument when Jimmy first told Chuck he passed the bar, it would have been ugly, but they might have patched things up eventually.

 

Let's not forget, that Chuck was there for Jimmy when he hit bottom, and vice versa. The tragedy of Chuck's reaction to Jimmy's lawyer status is the genuine brotherhood it destroyed.

 

 

I think I'm more disappointed in Kim, who  was Jimmy's declared friend.   Chuck was his mainstay, but Chuck was never truly his brother.   

 

She (and Howard, apparently) were trying to protect Chuck and Jimmy's relationship from the fallout. 

 

Chuck is a very rich lawyer.  I highly doubt his hands are pristine. 

 

Chuck is a clearly a genius and highly regarded. I imagine he has an excellent ethical track record. Unfortunately, that very purity is why he didn't want Jimmy to be a lawyer, and that caused him to betray Jimmy on a personal level. That's the irony. 

 

Isn't there another law firm in town Jimmy could work with? HHM must have some competition.

 

I would say that Chuck has a piece of this case too, and Chuck loves HHM (he never wanted to cash out his partnership, remember). And if Jimmy hadn't found out about the call, he probably could have talked Jimmy into taking the deal. He was clearly going to try to do that, he had the "I'll work on Howard" promise loaded and ready to go. 

 

Was Nacho buying meth precursors?

I don't think so. Those are available in cheap, OTC cold medicines, and you need a lot. I think these were prescription drugs. My two (wildly uninformed) guesses would be oxycontin or viagra. 

 

I'm a firm believer that some of the smartest people in the world never get their break, Jimmy is clearly as smart or smarter than Chuck, to pass the bar is huge, much less pass the bar having studied at Samoa whatever. The stupidest people in the world can go to Harvard. Abraham Lincoln practiced law and never went to law school. Just like Mike illustrates every day, never judge a pimiento cheese sammich! (Hate pimiento cheese, blech) 

Smart is a complicated concept. Chuck is clearly a legal genius, I don't think you can take that away from him. To me, the real tragedy is that Chuck and Jimmy's strengths compliment each other well, and they make a great team. Part of Jimmy's pain is how evident that was as the Sandpiper case came together, and how thrilled Jimmy was by it, only to find out it didn't move Chuck's opinion at all. 

[Pike Ludwell]

A very good episode. Enjoyed it a lot.

Edited March 31, 2015 by riverclown

[DrLar]

IDK how good a course from American Samoa is, but it was good enough to pass the bar, so what's the big deal? Because Chuck went to College since he was 18 or something? I don't know who paid for that one, but at least Jimmy was working his arse off on the mailroom while paying for his degree.

[Blakeston]

The way I see it, Jimmy has Slippin' Jimmy inside of him, and could go that way--but the other side of him, the decent, hard-working side of him, only needs encouragement in order to flower and predominate. Encouragement that sadly he's never going to get. 

 

Chuck seems to think that ending up as Lawyer Slippin' Jimmy is Jimmy's predestined fate. It is his fate, but it was never predestined. It could have gone the other way, with love and mentoring. A curve ball that breaks bad could also have broken good.

 

This is brilliantly written, and it sums up how I feel - except I think that Slippin' Jimmy was always going to be part of who Jimmy McGill is.

 

With encouragement, he could have become a respected attorney, who does wonderful things for his clients, and would outright refuse to be an accomplice to Walter White's crimes. But I don't think he would ever have been an ethical lawyer. Even at his best, he had no qualms about breaking the rules.

[ghoulina]

But Chuck was not being mean. he was realistic,

 

I feel that no matter how "slippin" Jimmy has been, he passed the bar - and to tell him, "You're not a real lawyer!" is mean. That didn't sound anything to me like a wise lawyer who was worried Jimmy's old ways would resurface. It just sounded like a petulant older brother being greedy, territorial, and lashing out. 

[Fisher King]

The opening theme this episode was Jimmy's face on a pack of Saul matches in a bathroom urinal.  Quite fitting since it felt like Chuck indeed pissed all over Jimmy's efforts. We can argue ethics and experience all day long but that's exactly what Chuck did.

 

And instead of Chuck having the balls to be completely honest with his brother, he deceives Jimmy by using Hamlin to do the dirty work.

[axlmadonna]

So, as I'm reading this, I see this targeted ad nestled between the posts... for "The Hammer", Houston's own Saul Goodman! Lol

 

 

 

**If it is against the rules to post an ad, I apologize and will remove it immediately. I just thought it was humorous and apropos.**

[ShadowFacts]

 

And getting a law degree by correspondence course from American Samoa?? - cmon folks - this is dubious at best.

 

Accredited, and he passed the bar.  Sure, it's supposed to sound bad and easy to crap on, it makes it a lot easier for 'respectable' firms to never consider him than if he had gone to the U of NM.  But any statements about how easy it is to pass the bar, well I'd be skeptical of anyone who said it was easy, in any state.  Someone with a photographic memory and flawless reasoning ability might be able to do very well on it and still be a poor fit in any firm if they didn't have numerous other qualities.  The reverse is true, someone who struggles with tricky multiple choice questions could be a real star litigator, or negotiator, or fill in the blank.

 

 

I don't think Chuck screwed over Jimmy. I think he was being realistic, and this hit on personal issues within Jimmy as to wanting to be respectable, and so Jimmy feels screwed over. But Chuck was not being mean. he was realistic, although some of Chuck's personal issues may also have been at play.

 

I think he screwed Jimmy over in the biggest way possible.  He was being extremely petty and duplicitous--over a span of years-- and deliberately hurtful in saying Jimmy was not a real lawyer.

[shapeshifter]

Pimento was in the story & ends on "o." There's nothing deeper to it....

IDK. The pimento sandwich is to a gun as Jimmy's law degree is to Chuck's?

[Lingo]

I knew Hamlin didn't hate on Jimmy.  I just knew it.  Patrick Fabian never played that.  He took the cake, after all.

 

To me, him taking the cake shows that he's still an insensitive douche. If you just crush a guy's hopes and dreams with a fake smile plastered over your face (even if you're doing it on behalf of his cowardly brother), you don't then swipe the guy's cake too.  I still think Hamlin's a dick, just maybe not as big of one as he seemed before.

 

Heck, ask the skateboard twins what they think about Jimmy McGill, Esq.

 

Those idiot twins would eventually have stumbled onto the path of someone as dangerous as Tuco with or without Jimmy.  They're lucky he stuck his neck out to save their lives.  Hopefully they learned something from that.

[Spartan Girl]

Maybe Mike's first job for Jimmy/Saul should be offing Chuck.

[bmoore4026]

Jimmy showed real restraint not punching his brother dead in the mouth or forcing him to lick a plug socket for what he did.  Instead, he took the high road.  That shows that, for all the things he's done and is going to do, he does have some semblance of justice to him.  That's what makes him so likable.

 

But it did make that opening scene all the more sad.  Chuck was so wrapped up in the case that he forgot his "allergy" and Jimmy was proud of him for that.  And the both of them wiggling their bare toes in the grass, like they were little kids again, was sweet.  But all of that is gone now.  Because Chuck grew up and resented Jimmy doing things the easy way.  Without Jimmy, though, Chuck has no one.  No one at all.  Is this the last we'll see of Chuck?

 

Calling Howard a douche is an insult to douches everywhere.  That is all.

 

That just leaves Kim.  What will become of her and Jimmy?

 

I like that Mike doesn't suffer fools lightly.  Whether they're some punk-ass wanna-be hitman or a neebish drug supplier, you don't fool with Mike.  God, I hope his daughter and granddaughter will be OK.

[revbfc]

Wow, I really like Kim, and I love her friendship with Jimmy. Hopefully we'll get at least one Kim-centric episode next season, because that character has a lot going on under the surface.

Oh, Chuck! How I agree and dislike you in equal measures. We know "Slippin' Jimmy" is still alive and well in your brother. We know that huckster side has helped fuel his greatest legal accomplishments. We also know that Jimmy is a genuine workhorse. He didn't go UAS because it was easy, he went there because they accepted him. He put in the time, he put in the effort, and he passed the bar. Sorry, Chuck, but your brother is a real lawyer, and since UAS is accredited, he went to a real school. No, you don't have to hire him to your firm, but do rejoice in that your brother has taken it upon himself to be his own man. Use all the tough love and reveal all your ugliness if you must, but NEVER takes sides against the family.

[editorgrrl]

I can't imagine a partnership agreement that would let a multi million dollar class action walk away.  I just don't think it's hinged on doing some Westlaw research billed to Chuck's number.  It's Chuck's work that ties him to the case.

 

I'm on the fence whether Chuck invited the document dump.  Having been a civil defense lawyer for longer than my gut could tolerate, it's common to document dump.  On a Friday, at 6:01 p.m. (or whatever is common closing time), even when the documents were prepared on a Tuesday.  (I clearly take this show too personally and need to migrate back to reality TV for my own sanity and so I don't get banned. Mea culpa.)

 

You have nothing to apologize for. The main rule here is "don't be a dick," and you're nothing of the sort. I love this kind of insider insight, so please don't go changing.

[Ohwell]

Chuck was right about a couple if things:  1) Jimmy is like a chimp with a machine gun when it comes to working on cases, and 2) there will always be a bit of Slippin' Jimmy in him.  However, Chuck was wrong in seeing those as negative qualities.  If I'm hiring a lawyer, those things are exactly what I want in someone.  So yeah, Chuck can go fuck himself.  Tin foil bastard.

 

I'm still on the fence about Kim.  I like that she went to Hamlin on Jimmy's behalf, and I wouldn't expect her to leave her job in protest.  I think on the whole that she is a good friend.  It's a difficult position she's in because while she is a friend, I don't think she loves him at all.  She didn't want to be partners with him because I think she thinks of him the same way Chuck does--a chimp with a machine gun.  The difference is that, unlike Chuck, she can appreciate his hard work.  She just doesn't want to get "dirty" with him; she'd rather stay in the "prestigious" environment of HHM.   I still think that she sees Jimmy as some schmuck that she pityfucks on occasion because she can't do any better. 

 

I  loved Mike's takedown of the mouthy gun guy, and the other dude hauling his big ass away.  It was also nice to see Nacho again.

[Mindymoo]

This episode left me in rage tears, something I never would have expected. I wanted Jimmy to go all Michael Corleone, kiss Chuck on the cheek, and say "I knew it was you the whole time. You broke my heart." But since he used no movie references in this fight with Chuck, you just knew how hurt and heartbroken he was. I am glad that Hamlin was straightforward with Kim, and found it touching and sad that Kim didn't have the heart to tell Jimmy the truth. I still don't like Hamlin, but I think he's less of a douche now if he's been doing Chuck's bidding for all of this time to keep Jimmy's thoughts of his brother pure. The whole final ten minutes were such a gut punch.

[Chaos Theory]

Chuck always viewed himself as a man of worth and Jimmy as a screw up and reliant on him. The sudden change in their dynamic must be awful for him. Suddenly Jimmy is succeeding and Chuck is reliant on him. Jimmy getting that partnership in the firm that belonged to Chuck would have been an unbearable affront to Chuck. He could never let that happen.

There was a mention upthread about Jimmys moment of clarity and what it was. I don't think it was that Chuck is right about him, because he is not. The moment of clarity is that is brother thinks so little of him.....and always has.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[shapeshifter]

Chuck always viewed himself as a man of worth and Jimmy as a screw up and reliant on him. The sudden change in their dynamic must be awful for him. Suddenly Jimmy is succeeding and Chuck is realiant on him. Jimmy getting that partnership in the firm that belonged to Chuck would have been an unbearable affront to Chuck. He could never let that happen.

There was a mention unthread about Jimmys moment of clarity and what it was. I don't think it was that Chuck is right about him, because he is not, the moment of clarity is that is brother thinks so little of him.....and always has.

I love this post for clarity and insight.

My family dynamics aren't a lot different than those of Chuck and Jimmy. We're just not quite so far over on the continuum between Hamlet and Father Knows Best.

Edited March 31, 2015 by shapeshifter

[henripootel]

We're just not quite so far over on the continuum between Hamlet and Father Knows Best.

 

I prefer Henry V.  Jimmy's right to rage at Chuck's 'judgement' here;

 

"How he comes o'er us with our wilder days,

Not measuring what use we made of them."

 

How Jimmy arrived where he is isn't material - you might as well judge Chuck by the pizza delivery job he had in high school, saying he'll always be the Pizza Guy Chuck.  Chuck's concern for the law is just Ivy League pretension and ego, if Jimmy turns out to be bad at law, Chuck could help him out.  Instead he betrayed his brother, apparently for years, for nothing.  Eat a bag of dicks, Chuck, you're a pretty shit person and Jimmy's worth 10 of you. 

Edited March 31, 2015 by henripootel

[ghoulina]

To me, him taking the cake shows that he's still an insensitive douche. If you just crush a guy's hopes and dreams with a fake smile plastered over your face (even if you're doing it on behalf of his cowardly brother), you don't then swipe the guy's cake too.  I still think Hamlin's a dick, just maybe not as big of one as he seemed before.

 

Not to mention, why did he even have to break the bad news ON that day? When they were celebrating? Maybe give him a day or two to enjoy his success before knocking the wind out of him. I agree, I still think he's a douche, just not King Douche. 

[ItsHelloPattiagain]

 

The EW review I just posted in the media thread has some comments from the writers about Chuck being, in some ways, jealous of Jimmy.

You, Chuck, are a mega douchy DICK.

 

Chuck is SUCH a dick that he already KNEW he was going to betray his brother when he went to the law office. Did you see the welcome all his co-workers gave him? He had the power to get Jimmy in on the case - I'm sure of that - instead he sold his brother out - the guy that helped him by getting him out of his crazy electromagnetic mindset and line his suit with foil (did I mention Chuck is a dick of mega dickly proportions?)

 

And of course Chuck is jealous of Jimmy! Jimmy's a big screw up. He will ALWAYS be Slipping Jimmy in his mind and how dare Jimmy try and "pretend" to be a lawyer (kinda funny how Chuck is talking about the law like he's so incredibly ethical and honorable by stealing his brother's mega-case). 

 

And of course, it's a "tale of two brothers - Dos Hermanos" (lol just popped into my head while watching)

[Primetimer]

Saul Goodman's supervillain origin story comes into clearer focus with a heartbreaking betrayal by someone close to Jimmy.

Read the story

[Ronin Jackson]

I personally don't mind VG getting a lot of praise since this team is together because of him.  I think Thomas Schnauz wrote and directed this episode.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think VG deserves heaps of praise... but I do think Peter Gould has been an equal partner in BCS. Schnauz did write/direct this episode. PG is writing/directing the finale. VG co wrote the pilot with PG and directed it... to date that's been the his only writing/directing credit in the series, while PG wrote two episodes and co-wrote one. Of course in the writers room VG obviously has his hands in the creative process throughout the series... My main point (which I could have made better initially) is that PG should get noticed more, not that VG is getting too much notice.

[Umbelina]

But maybe he turned into Saul because of what Chuck did. Maybe Saul came about because no one would give Jimmy a chance. Yes, he had a past. So do many people. But people CAN change. Maybe if Chuck had been a truly supportive and encouraging brother, Jimmy would have stayed on the straight and narrow (mostly, he is a lawyer after all) and been a damn fine, serious lawyer.

    <snip>

 

Yes, this is the moment Jimmy finally gives up the fight to turn his life around, gave up that dream, and turned into Saul.  Over and over again we've watched Jimmy try to do the right thing, only to be smacked down.  The Kettlemen's did it too.  Chuck is the one who really put the nail in Jimmy's life coffin though.  The hatred pouring forth from Chuck was palpable.  I think Chuck's entire ego is tied up with being a lawyer, and in being "the good brother."  He had to keep Jimmy down, and he did.  He did it in a cowardly, destructive way, forcing Hamlin to take the heat for it, pretending to care about Jimmy, all the while undermining him.  Yeah, Chuck, you are SO much more moral than Jimmy, sure you are.  You dick.

 

    Chuck always viewed himself as a man of worth and Jimmy as a screw up and reliant on him. The sudden change in their dynamic must be awful for him. Suddenly Jimmy is succeeding and Chuck is realiant on him. Jimmy getting that partnership in the firm that belonged to Chuck would have been an unbearable affront to Chuck. He could never let that happen.

    There was a mention unthread about Jimmys moment of clarity and what it was. I don't think it was that Chuck is right about him, because he is not, the moment of clarity is that is brother thinks so little of him.....and always has.

 

It was really sickening to realize that Chuck, all along, has been undermining Jimmy's efforts to change, to make something of himself, and to walk the straight and narrow and become a good man, to be like what he THOUGHT his brother was, to make that shitbag proud of him.

We've seen Jimmy be a good man.  Chuck has been a sanctimonious, bitter, jealous, entitled coward.

 

I'm one of the people who saw this coming, but not coming this hard and this cruelly.  Many of us thought it might be Chuck's death that would propel Jimmy into finally caving in to the pressures of the world not wanting him to become a good man, and an "honest" lawyer.  Last week it was obvious to me that Chuck would sell out Jimmy, and that would do it, either the code, or just giving the lawsuit to HMM for the obvious legal needs in a case that big.  Quite a few of us guessed that Chuck was the one who blocked Jimmy being hired at HMM too.

 

BUT, I didn't expect this!  I didn't expect this level of venomous hate and ego!  I knew it would be powerful, but I underestimated the writers, and I know better than that.  They all deserve awards for this, the actors, the writers, and the directors.  Once again I was completely blown away by how raw, how real, how well plotted, and how emotional the payoff of this long arc has been.

 

Icing on the cake was Jimmy showing his skills, and figuring it all out for himself.  I'm so glad Kim didn't tell him, because that?  Showed just how skilled Jimmy really is.  He was able to put aside his hero-worship and love, even for his idolized older brother, and see through to the truth and logic of it all.  On top of that, he had Chuck on a sort of witness stand, and decimated him with the "Quit!" gambit.  He forced that confession, even though the blood left on the floor after excising it was all Jimmy's.

 

Just Bravo to all of them.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Umbelina

[Blakeston]

Regarding Chuck's criticisms of Jimmy, I guess I'm somewhere in the middle.

 

It would have been perfectly valid if Chuck had been upfront all along and said, "I'm proud of you, but I can't offer you a job here. If another applicant had come along, with a law degree from the University of American Samoa, and it took them three tries to pass the bar, they wouldn't get hired here. It would just be nepotism if I hired you."

 

And now that Chuck knows about the billboard stunt, it would be fine for him to say, "This retirement home case sounds promising, but I don't think it's a good idea for you to work at HHM. From past experience, I can easily picture you doing something unethical that could have huge ramifications for the firm itself."

 

The problem with what Chuck said was that he went way too far with it, and he wasn't honest from the beginning. And that it was tainted by snobbery.

[Chaos Theory]

Regarding Chuck's criticisms of Jimmy, I guess I'm somewhere in the middle.

It would have been perfectly valid if Chuck had been upfront all along and said, "I'm proud of you, but I can't offer you a job here. If another applicant had come along, with a law degree from the University of American Samoa, and it took them three tries to pass the bar, they wouldn't get hired here. It would just be nepotism if I hired you."

And now that Chuck knows about the billboard stunt, it would be fine for him to say, "This retirement home case sounds promising, but I don't think it's a good idea for you to work at HHM. From past experience, I can easily picture you doing something unethical that could have huge ramifications for the firm itself."

The problem with what Chuck said was that he went way too far with it, and he wasn't honest from the beginning. And that it was tainted by snobbery.

If he had done any of those things I'd be fine with him. He could have even recommended him to a lesser "starter" firm. But he did none of those things. He backstabbed Jimmy.

[axlmadonna]

Jimmy was so happy when he thought he was earning his brothers respect but Chuck would only ever see him as Slippin Jimmy.

 

 

 

Isn't that what he really is? He never put Slippin Jimmy to rest. What he did with the Kettlemans is proof of that...

 

 

If I remember correctly, he went looking for the Kettlemans with the intent of bringing them in for legitimate justice. He called Kim and reported their whereabouts before he confronted them, then did his level best to convince them to turn themselves in, and even when they initially offered him bribe money, he refused it and attempted several times to get them to give it to him as a legitimate and above-board retainer for his services as an attorney. It wasn't until Mrs. Kettleman said, in no uncertain terms, that they would NEVER hire him as an attorney and that all he could hope for was the bribe. Yes, taking the bribe after all that was not ethical, but a case could also be made that it was payment for the legal advice he gave them... i.e., the story for why they were out "camping" on their property when everyone thought they were missing. As far as I can tell, not once did he "Slippin' Jimmy" them... he did everything he could to avoid that. And then he returned the money he took, in order to make sure that the deal they got would be legit.

 

Chimp with a machine gun works to describe Jimmy perfectly. In episode 1 look at how his scheme with the skateboard twins went sideways.

 

There's no question that he reverted to his former nature with the skateboard twins scheme. He wanted those Kettleman's legit business, but he used shady tactics to get it when his powers of persuasion failed him. However, I don't think that this in any way adds up to his being a "chimp with a machine gun". I find that characterization to be defamatory and without merit. Jimmy has never shown himself to be reckless, incoherent, imbecilic, or clueless (maybe a bit naive, but he's still new to this profession). Furthermore, aside from the skateboard incident (and perhaps his resigned acceptance of the bribe money), he hasn't even shown professional poor judgment. In what way is he a "chimp with a machine gun"?

 

1) He gave a well-articulated, fiery defense of those kids who... um... defiled the funeral home.

 

2) When Mike was his client, he did exactly what was expected of him, and got the desired result... including making a strong case for Mike against the officer whose notebook Mike stole.

 

3) He got those Kettlemans to accept the best possible deal, and made sure all the money was there, even though it meant giving up the money they had given him, even when Kim & Her Presitigious Law Firm were unable to do so (how well did those fancy law degrees work out for THEM?).

 

4) He went to exceptional lengths to vindicate Nacho, whom he had previously given the proper legal advice to NOT assault, and when Nacho threatened to do so anyway, Jimmy put himself at risk to do the proper, legal thing and warn the Kettlemans that they were in danger.

 

5) He chose to follow law in a legitimate fashion... going into elder law, which is perfect for him... and always does his absolute best for them, no matter how inane their needs. He doesn't overcharge them, treats them with respect, and does exactly what is required of him on their behalf. He even noticed, through his own sharp observation, that they were being screwed by the nursing home... a thing that "genius" Chuck himself admitted that he overlooked when he was doing the paperwork that Jimmy left at his house. And Jimmy wasn't the one trying to make this a multi-million dollar suit so that he could enrich himself personally... he was genuinely trying to right a wrong on behalf of his clients.

 

So, I ask again... how does any of this add up to his being a "chimp with a machine gun"?? Chuck made that comment, following it up with the notion that Jimmy was incompetent to be a proper lawyer. I say that the above is more than enough evidence to disprove that theory.

 

He was damn lucky that he was able to talk Tuco into only breaking their legs.

 

That wasn't luck, that was his amazing negotiating skills. Just another thing that actually makes him an excellent lawyer, and is an innate talent, rather than something you get from Harvard book-learnin'.

 

The bribe and the billboard stunt could have easily ended in disaster.

 

Again, the bribe was not his goal. He took it when they offered him no other option. And, if I recall correctly, wasn't the billboard thing a coincidence rather than a stunt? I don't remember it ever having been established that he orchestrated that event... he just happened to be filming a commercial with his billboard in the background when the guy fell. And then he risked his life and limb to rescue the guy.

 

Also, hiring Mike to break into the Kettlemans house and steal the money could have ended in disaster. Mike didn't run off to Nassau with the loot, but he could have.

 

Fair enough, it was certainly shady to have Mike break into the Kettleman's home to retrieve the money. However, he did this in an effort to SAVE the Kettlemans, not for any personal gain. In fact, he lost money on that deal.

 

I love chimps, but they have no business having the power of a machine gun put in their hands. I love Jimmy, but he has no business having the power of a law degree.

 

I couldn't disagree more. See above.

 

**ETA: Jimmy also knows his stuff, with regard to legal concepts (e.g. "spoliation"), is familiar enough with legal procedures to write out his own cease and desist order (or whatever that was) in the bathroom of the nursing home, and understood perfectly what was at stake during the showdown with the nursing home's smug attorney. But, sure... he's a chimp with a machine gun.**

Edited March 31, 2015 by axlmadonna

[paigow]

ETA:  My Godfather description was not exactly right.  But, the scene in BCS was most definitely an homage, in my opinion.

Godfather 2 quote from IMDB that is almost exactly what Jimmy said.

 

Michael: "I know it was you, Fredo. You broke my heart. You broke my heart!"

[ShadowFacts]

 

We've seen Jimmy be a good man.  Chuck has been a sanctimonious, bitter, jealous, entitled coward.

 

Amen to that.  And to have Jimmy  be humiliated the way he was in that conference room, that to me is unforgivable.  How craven.

 

 

It would have been perfectly valid if Chuck had been upfront all along and said, "I'm proud of you, but I can't offer you a job here. If another applicant had come along, with a law degree from the University of American Samoa, and it took them three tries to pass the bar, they wouldn't get hired here. It would just be nepotism if I hired you."

 

I'm not sure that given Chuck's secret motivations that I agree it would have been perfectly valid, but it would have been better.  Nepotism by a founding partner would not have raised an eyebrow, and if Jimmy had been a total screw-up, he could have been terminated.  It's the gutless way that Chuck betrayed his brother that really sticks in my craw.  He's worried about possible unethical behavior from Jimmy?  What's so ethical about Chuck's total dishonesty regarding not hiring him?  What's so ethical about watching Jimmy running himself ragged trying to build his own practice and than schlepping supplies to him, making sure he's not committed, didn't he even give him some of his public defender fee?  I'll add hypocrisy to Chuck's curriculum vitae. 

 

axlmadonna, I'd give your post a dozen likes if I could.

[SoSueMe]

To @Umbelina

Your 1:59 post was a perfect analysis.

[TVFan17]

I was already not feeling the Chuck storyline for the duration of this season, and I was hoping it was going somewhere soon.  I didn't find him endearing or likeable and I was hoping I would, eventually.  

 

I must say I was surprised that the Chuck storyline went there.  I hadn't thought of him as possibly working against/sabotaging his own brother -- a brother who cares about him, defends him and genuinely wants to help him.  Maybe I should have seen it coming, but that kind of surprised me.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Sherry67

[editorgrrl]

 I recall correctly, wasn't the billboard thing a coincidence rather than a stunt? I don't remember it ever having been established that he orchestrated that event... he just happened to be filming a commercial with his billboard in the background when the guy fell. And then he risked his life and limb to rescue the guy.

 

I agree 100% that Jimmy's a "real lawyer" vs. a "chimp with a machine gun."

 

However, the billboard stunt in season 1, episode 4, "Hero," was no coincidence. When Jimmy pulled the dangling man to safety, he grunted to Jimmy, "Took you long enough." I would even swear in court that I saw Jimmy slip him some cash when they shook hands.

 

But a good attorney (like Dick DeGuerin, who represents Robert Durst) could easily argue that "took you long enough" is a perfectly normal utterance in that situation. And my interpretation of what I saw could easily be discredited under cross examination.

[Umbelina]

Oh, and yes, definite props to Michael McKean, because I just realized I really hate you.  It's not often an actor makes me feel hatred for more than a character, that a portrayal is so believable that I, on some level, detest everything about you as well.

 

I'm not saying it well, but damn, guy.  Now that I've had about 17 hours to think about it?  Seriously well done.

 

Yes, Jimmy set up the billboard fall, because he was angry at Hamlin for blocking him from his dream of working along side his brother and being a "good" lawyer. 

Edited March 31, 2015 by Umbelina

[axlmadonna]

Thanks, ShadowFacts!

 

I'm not sure that given Chuck's secret motivations that I agree it would have been perfectly valid, but it would have been better.  Nepotism by a founding partner would not have raised an eyebrow, and if Jimmy had been a total screw-up, he could have been terminated.

 

This is exactly the way I feel about it... I'll bet clients would rather have an attorney who is as hard-working and professionally savvy as Jimmy, especially after he's had the chance to prove himself in the courtroom and build his reputation, than one who only sees me for the number of dollar signs I represent to his bottom line (which is the way I see Howard, and probably Chuck as well). I doubt that most clients ask where an attorney got their degree, and if he worked for HHM, they would just assume he had gotten it at a good school. And, as you mentioned, if he turned out to be a screw-up, he could have been fired or demoted. Hell, they could easily have just let him work his way up from the mailroom... as a paralegal for starters, maybe a throwaway case or two, then moving up as he proved himself to be reliable and competent. What Chuck (or Cowardly Lyin', as I've taken to calling him) did was the worst possible way to handle the situation.

 

editorgrrl, you make an interesting point. At the time, I had taken his comment as simply an ungrateful response to having been rescued, but I can see how it could easily be interpreted to mean that the incident was premeditated. I still stand by the rest of my examples, though, and agree with those who have so eloquently stated that Jimmy's transition to Saul might have been prevented by his having been encouraged and supported by his brother rather than sabotaged and betrayed.

 

ETA: Umbelina, is there any evidence that he set it up, other than the remark made by the guy who fell? I still feel as though that comment could be construed either way, and I don't remember there being any other definitive or overt proof that it was.

Edited March 31, 2015 by axlmadonna

[iMonrey]

 

Hopefully the season will end on a high note, some way that Jimmy can turn the tables on HHM and Chuck in the end.

 

Presumably Jimmy can still have Chuck committed to a mental hospital and gain control over his finances. With Chuck's power of attorney he can force HHM to buy him out - they alluded to this in the episode where Chuck was in the hospital. So depending on how far Jimmy wants to go with this, yeah - he could bring them all down.

 

I loved the part with Mike but the two different stories make me feel like I'm watching two different shows.

[Blakeston]

If he had done any of those things I'd be fine with him. He could have even recommended him to a lesser "starter" firm. But he did none of those things. He backstabbed Jimmy.

That's why I ended my post saying that Chuck handled it wrong.

[Kristen]

First of all, Mike being such a boss that he only brought his lunch to that job is just the awesomest.

Secondly, I was willing to give Chuck the benefit of the doubt last week when it was suggested that he was behind Hamlin turning Jimmy down. Like, maybe a guy like Jimmy starting out at such a big firm wasn't the best idea, and Chuck didn't have the heart to tell him that. The fact that it took Chuck so long to finally come out with the truth might even be evidence (however small) that he didn't want to hurt Jimmy, but the fact that he was leading him on like that? Wow. Even if this was to be the only season of BCS, and we didn't get more time to see how he changes, that moment is pretty much exactly when Jimmy McGill became Saul Goodman. Man.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Kristen

[editorgrrl]

I loved the part with Mike but the two different stories make me feel like I'm watching two different shows.

 

But shapeshifter had an interesting idea above:

[Mike's] pimento sandwich is to a gun as Jimmy's law degree is to Chuck's?

 

And what Mike told "Pryce" about some cops being bad guys and some criminals being good guys absolutely applies to Slippin' Jimmy. Chuck McGill is a lawyer, but he's not a good guy. And Howard Hamlin isn't nearly the baddie we (the viewers) had assumed him to be.

 

Mike being such a boss that he only brought his lunch to that job is just the awesomest.

Mike knew he didn't need a gun because he did all that research on Nacho. Just like Jimmy, Mike's a hard worker. 

[ShadowFacts]

Mike said he didn't have a gun, but I think he did. Regardless of the research he did, I don't see him going into a situation like that unprotected.  He has dealt with all manner of criminals for years, and he may think Nacho wouldn't want to call attention to his side deals, but he had no way to be sure something wouldn't go wrong.

 

Back to Chuck's betrayal, the fact that he hid behind Hamlin so long is some evidence that he was not only a coward, but that he knew it was the wrong thing to do.  If it was valid, why not just own it?  Because it wasn't.

[axlmadonna]

Mike said he didn't have a gun, but I think he did.

 

I stay spoiler and speculation-free (as much as possible... I only read the episode threads), so throughout that whole scene I kept thinking that it was going to turn out to be a setup... that the loudmouth guy was trying to get Mike to admit he had a gun, and what kind, because he was some kind of informant. I thought the other guy (the big guy) was going to end up getting nicked, and Mike would be fine because he was smart enough to keep things on the downlow. The scene we got was way better, though.

[attica]

As a decided non-fan of pimento cheese, I was disappointed in Mike's choice of lunch. So many other delicious cheeses to choose. Not as disappointed as I was in Chuck, but still.

[LotusFlower]

And, if I recall correctly, wasn't the billboard thing a coincidence rather than a stunt? I don't remember it ever having been established that he orchestrated that event... he just happened to be filming a commercial with his billboard in the background when the guy fell. And then he risked his life and limb to rescue the guy.

No. It was a stunt, set up in advance - no question.

[ketose]

Mike's badass self was on display for the fans of BB and probably BCS watchers who might not understand why Mike is awesome. 

 

I think Howard was starting to lose faith in Chuck with the class action. I'm sure he had no problem when Chuck told him Jimmy wasn't HHM material after graduating from correspondence law school. However, no one in their right mind wouldn't offer a partnership to a guy who made $20 million in rain. I think Howard snapped at Kim because he had absolutely no way to explain the decision as him without looking like an asshole. Of course, he put her in a tough legal position because she couldn't tell Jimmy the truth.

 

Also, as a technical matter, is Chuck such a big dick that he couldn't eat himself as a dick?