Sweet Fellowship: Duggars and Friends (aka the Bates Family and Other Featured Families Thread)

[Natalie68]

7 hours ago, Mollie said:

I think that printing a homeschool graduation certificate on a computer printer and paying $150,000 is enough to get anyone admitted to that program.

Exactly.  When its a private school and the cost is that high, they will admit anyone.  That anyone may have to get remedial coursework done but a place like Moody isn't turning away a potential 150 large.

[Natalie68]

3 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

So I guess there's a scenario where they collect 25 to 60-thousand dollars from a lot of kids who flunk out after a year or two? .... I can see that might happen, but I still don't see how it would help the school at all to get that money--

It's not that much money, so wouldn't you use most of it up trying and failing to train those kids? So why would a very high dropout rate help them? ...

Yes, this happens in the armed forces. Because that's government money and the idea is to spend as much as it takes to get the best force that it takes .....

But I'm really struggling to understand why a private institution would do that.... What they'd have to gain.....I don't see how they could gain money for it. And it seems to me it'd just hurt their reputation, hurt their ability to train the actual qualified people, and maybe even hurt their reputation in their own Christian community. 

Anyway, maybe I just completely misread you. I thought you were saying that the school would take anybody because they could make an easy $150,000 off of it. But maybe you weren't saying that at all? 

 

My guess is they can accept these students but they need to have the basic prereq's done prior to actually starting any of the core coursework (for example, our bio dept may accept you as a pre major but until you can pass the core classes with a C or better major gpa, you are never progressing to full major and will most likely be kicked out).  So Tim needs to take basic math before he can actually start this program and get to the meat of it.  The school can make $ off of these kids that may never complete it.  The kids would be screwed because they would most likely have to take out loans for the tuition but whether or not these kids graduate is up to the kid and their preparedness.  It may actually benefit the school because someone flunks out after spending 60K.  The school has the $, doesn't need to further your training, and someone else comes in.  The only one out of $ is the kid who will owe for a long time.  Like all private schools, it is about the $.  Think Trump University.  It didn't teach much of anything, people didn't finish it, but they still had to pay whatever is owed on the school loan.  Until they sued and won.

*I am not implying Moody teaches you nothing but private schools NEEDS $.  How they get it really doesn't matter.  Be it graduate or flunkie

Edited June 28, 2018 by Natalie68

[farmgal4]

2 hours ago, Absolom said:

The "higher level math" that Tim needs to master to complete his coursework is geometry and that is offered as part of the curriculum.  By next spring he needs to be able to tackle college algebra I.  This tells me that Timothy's math "education" has been dreadfully neglected.  I'm going to be surprised if he actually passes the first year.

I’ll be surprised if he’s there for an entire year.  For one, I’m doubtful that he can handle/pass the classes and two, I don’t how he can afford it.

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, Natalie68 said:

Exactly.  When its a private school and the cost is that high, they will admit anyone.  That anyone may have to get remedial coursework done but a place like Moody isn't turning away a potential 150 large.

Okay, I'm completely confused here.

As I understand it, they only get the $150,000 if the kid attends for ALL FIVE YEARS (or at least four and a half years plus however many days he attended in that final semester before he dropped out in despair...)....

And if you went far enough to pay in the entire $150,000 you'd have gotten four and a half years plus part of that final semester of training. And that training requires having a bunch of airplanes on site and maintained to FAA standards and insured and with many of them maintained up to FAA standards -- because some students fly them -- so there are certified aviation mechanics on site, and they're pretty expensive, too.

If the kid stayed long enough to pay the full amount, I don't see that the school would have much money left over to use for other purposes than educating that kid!

According to the College Board the average cost of four years of tuition at private colleges is $133,920.  (which would make a five-year cost $167,400). .... So this is a somewhat below-average tuition cost, according to those numbers). Yet all the equipment and stuff they use is very very pricey -- definitely more so than in some other programs.

So... I'm really missing why would be such a great irresistible deal for a school to bring in a bunch of kids they're sure will fail (i.e., -- taking HUGE advantage of these sucker kids)  just so they can get a somewhat below-national-average amount of tuition from them to pay for a pricey program.

What is it about tuition economics that would make this true?

Is the assumption that ALL schools rake in a substantial profit from whatever tuitions they charge? 

$150,000 over five years isn't all that much money, seems to me. I don't see that it would be worth stringing along tons of hopeful-but-academically-doomed Timothys in an equipment-heavy program just to get that $30,000 per annum. I guess I'd hope they aren't cruel and cynical enough to keep on doing that, even if they could skim some bucks from it. ... But I don't even see that these amounts would allow them to skim much -- if at all, really. 

7 minutes ago, farmgal4 said:

I’ll be surprised if he’s there for an entire year.  For one, I’m doubtful that he can handle/pass the classes and two, I don’t how he can afford it.

Well, according to this, tuition and fees for a semester of this program hover between 8000 and 12,000..... They might be able to grift that much ... 

https://www.moody.edu/siteassets/content/ug-spokane/tuition-and-fees/2016-2017-flight-cost-estimate.pdf

Edited June 28, 2018 by Churchhoney

[Natalie68]

Just now, Churchhoney said:

Okay, I'm completely confused here.

As I understand it, they only get the $150,000 if the kid attends for ALL FIVE YEARS (or at least four and a half years plus however many days he attended in that final semester before he dropped out in despair...)....

And if you went far enough to pay in the entire $150,000 you'd have gotten four and a half years plus part of that final semester of training. And that training requires having a bunch of airplanes on site and maintained to FAA standards and insured and with many of them maintained up to FAA standards -- because some students fly them -- so there are certified aviation mechanics on site, and they're pretty expensive, too.

If the kid stayed long enough to pay the full amount, I don't see that the school would have much money left over to use for other purposes than educating that kid!

According to the College Board the average cost of four years of tuition at private colleges is $133,920.  (which would make a five-year cost $167,400). .... So this is a somewhat below-average tuition cost, according to those numbers). Yet all the equipment and stuff they use is very very pricey -- definitely more so than in some other programs.

So... I'm really missing why would be such a great irresistible deal for a school to bring in a bunch of kids they're sure will fail (i.e., -- taking HUGE advantage of these sucker kids)  just so they can get a somewhat below-national-average amount of tuition from them to pay for a pricey program.

What is it about tuition economics that would make this true?

Is the assumption that ALL schools rake in a substantial profit from whatever tuitions they charge? 

$150,000 over five years isn't all that much money, seems to me. I don't see that it would be worth stringing along tons of hopeful-but-academically-doomed Timothys in an equipment-heavy program just to get that $30,000 per annum. I guess I'd hope they aren't cruel and cynical enough to keep on doing that. 

I am guessing the 5 years is 150K yet you pay yearly (or by semester/quarter).  They wouldn't make someone pay 150K just to start.  30K/year is a lot when that doesn't include food/housing and your parents need love offerings for food (and if his family earns 30K/year on the books I would be surprised).  They want qualified students for sure so they aren't wasting their time/resources but they aren't going to turn away potential tuition so they just make these kids take remedial courses so they CAN finish.  Some will, some won't but the ones that won't did have to pay for their time there.  If your parents have to beg for a 20K car they certainly cannot afford this school and most really academically strong students would probably go to a school (or military) that gives them financial aid.  It sounds like this may be the only place that would accept this kid before meeting academic standards.  Private online schools have had a lot of issues with really high tuition and predatory lending to cover tuition.

[Normades]

9 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

So... I'm really missing why would be such a great irresistible deal for a school to bring in a bunch of kids they're sure will fail (i.e., -- taking HUGE advantage of these sucker kids)  just so they can get a somewhat below-national-average amount of tuition from them to pay for a pricey program.

My opinion is that if they have a class of 20 for example, and let's say half of them are well prepared and will probably complete the program.  The other half have been poorly educated and have little chance of success.  They will still have to have the class, pay for the teacher, and pay for the equipment for the first 10.  Why wouldn't you accept tuition for a few years from the others and let them drop at their own rate?  They are warm bodies, paying tuition.  Maybe some of them will surprise the administration and make it, but either way, I see it as a win-win situation.  Money will be paid for resources they would have had to expend anyway.  I don't think the number of students dropping will really matter to them either because they are working with such a specialized group.  The concerns of potential students seems to be more about the right kind of bible/christian than graduation rates.  YMMV

[Churchhoney]

6 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

I am guessing the 5 years is 150K yet you pay yearly (or by semester/quarter).  They wouldn't make someone pay 150K just to start.  30K/year is a lot when that doesn't include food/housing and your parents need love offerings for food (and if his family earns 30K/year on the books I would be surprised).  They want qualified students for sure so they aren't wasting their time/resources but they aren't going to turn away potential tuition so they just make these kids take remedial courses so they CAN finish.  Some will, some won't but the ones that won't did have to pay for their time there.  If your parents have to beg for a 20K car they certainly cannot afford this school and most really academically strong students would probably go to a school (or military) that gives them financial aid.  It sounds like this may be the only place that would accept this kid before meeting academic standards.  Private online schools have had a lot of issues with really high tuition and predatory lending to cover tuition.

Yep, I agree that the Rodriguezes don't have money and can afford next to nothing! 

This isn't an online school or a school with a high tuition, though. It's an offline school with a tuition that's below the national average. So it's not quite this scenario.

I think we just differ about our basic ideas about what this school might be doing.

My guess is that because this school wants conservative Christian aviation people, they're well accustomed to accepting kids who show some promise but who don't meet some basic standards -- mostly math -- because they've been homeschooled by mommy and her online courses. They don't have a lot of other choices because of the particular beliefs they want their grades to hold. But my guess is also that they may know from their 50-year-plus experience that they can bring a lot of these kids up to standards, and that they aspire to because they really want to keep that missionary aviation pipeline full. Whereas I think your guess is that they're more likely to operate like a diploma mill that tries to rake in as many kids and bucks as they can, even if they make only about two bucks a kid, and that they don't care what happens to those kids, at their school or afterwards.

Could go either way, obviously! 

[Natalie68]

4 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Yep, I agree that the Rodriguezes don't have money and can afford next to nothing! 

This isn't an online school or a school with a high tuition, though. It's an offline school with a tuition that's below the national average. So it's not quite this scenario.

I think we just differ about our basic ideas about what this school might be doing.

My guess is that because this school wants conservative Christian aviation people, they're well accustomed to accepting kids who show some promise but who don't meet some basic standards -- mostly math -- because they've been homeschooled by mommy and her online courses. They don't have a lot of other choices because of the particular beliefs they want their grades to hold. But my guess is also that they may know from their 50-year-plus experience that they can bring a lot of these kids up to standards, and that they aspire to because they really want to keep that missionary aviation pipeline full. Whereas I think your guess is that they're more likely to operate like a diploma mill that tries to rake in as many kids and bucks as they can, even if they make only about two bucks a kid, and that they don't care what happens to those kids, at their school or afterwards.

Could go either way, obviously! 

True!  I think ultimately people of such limited means with no financial aid packages should stick to public schools.  Get the general ed or prep courses at a junior college and transfer to a public 4 year (or whatever).  The kid shouldn't be stuck with a loan of well over 150K (once you figure out non tuition costs plus the interest) that they cannot pay for.  Plus you cannot get rid of these types of loans via bankruptcy.  I knew a guy who went to a private school to get his nursing degree, didn't make much money when out, got behind on loan payments and his license was pulled until he got caught up.  So I knew him as our linen delivery guy.

[doodlebug]

3 minutes ago, Normades said:

My opinion is that if they have a class of 20 for example, and let's say half of them are well prepared and will probably complete the program.  The other half have been poorly educated and have little chance of success.  They will still have to have the class, pay for the teacher, and pay for the equipment for the first 10.  Why wouldn't you accept tuition for a few years from the others and let them drop at their own rate?  They are warm bodies, paying tuition.  Maybe some of them will surprise the administration and make it, but either way, I see it as a win-win situation.  Money will be paid for resources they would have had to expend anyway.  I don't think the number of students dropping will really matter to them either because they are working with such a specialized group.  The concerns of potential students seems to be more about the right kind of bible/christian than graduation rates.  YMMV

Yep, there is also the fact that this particular school deals with a lot of kids who were homeschooled for religious, not academic, reasons and there is no way for them to be assured of the quality of their application pool.  They've been around long enough to have a pretty good idea of how many kids they need to admit in order to graduate X number of them.  Some kids are cannon fodder at any school. 

I attended a major state university (you might even say THE state university) and there were plenty of kids in my freshman class who started out in premed (there was an 'adjusting to college' weekly class everyone took and we were divided as to our aspirations).  And, yet, at least half those kids, presumably pretty good students to be thinking of med school in the first place, quit or switched majors by the end of their first year.  Of those who started wanting to go to med school, maybe a quarter of us crossed the finish line and made it.  All colleges have a pyramidal setup and they expect to lose some along the way.

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

 

According to the College Board the average cost of four years of tuition at private colleges is $133,920.  (which would make a five-year cost $167,400). .... So this is a somewhat below-average tuition cost, according to those numbers). Yet all the equipment and stuff they use is very very pricey -- definitely more so than in some other programs.

So... I'm really missing why would be such a great irresistible deal for a school to bring in a bunch of kids they're sure will fail (i.e., -- taking HUGE advantage of these sucker kids)  just so they can get a somewhat below-national-average amount of tuition from them to pay for a pricey program.

What is it about tuition economics that would make this true?

Is the assumption that ALL schools rake in a substantial profit from whatever tuitions they charge? 

 

 

While the program is intensively equipment/specialized instruction heavy; it is only in the last couple of years.  Presuming that they charge $30,000 a year every year rather than increasing tuition through the years as the kid progresses; they are going to be getting more than they are putting out on kids in the first 2-3 years and, then, by the time the remaining kids are ready for the really expensive stuff; Moody has collected far more than they've spent on the lower classmen and can use a portion of any surplus to support the more expensive stuff.  I'd be willing to bet that maybe 3/4 of the kids who start out in the aviation program, which has higher tuition that the other offerings, end up leaving either due to finances or academics or just a change of heart; leaving the school with a lot of kids paying top dollar who are never going to use the pricey parts of the programs.

Places like Moody often don't attract the quality of faculty that other schools do and I expect they use a fair amount of teaching staff who wouldn't be employable at other colleges and universities.  But other colleges and universities probably pay much better/ have better benefits than Moody. I suspect there is a litmus test for faculty involving their profession of faith in the 'right' kind of Christianity, which is going to severely limit the pool of prospective teaching staff and also probably convince someone with the 'right' beliefs that it is God's will that they take a lesser salary at Moody.  Same thing with the rest of the auxiliary staff.

Say 10 kids start at Moody and half will finish the aviation program.  The first year, the school collects $300,000 but it must cost a lot less than that for the pure bookwork/no hands on curriculum.  Maybe only half, leaving $150,000 surplus for that year.  Maybe a third drop out and there's only $100,000 extra the second year.  That is still a $250,000 cushion to help defray any extra costs incurred in the last couple years by the 5 who actually finish.  $50,000, even amortized over 2-3 years, should pay for a whole lot of flight instruction when added to the $60-90,000 each of the ones who finish are already paying.

Edited June 28, 2018 by doodlebug

[Normades]

2 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

convince someone with the 'right' beliefs that it is God's will that they take a lesser salary

I suspect Jilly thinks she can convince the tuition department that it's god's will that Timothy complete his education when they run out of money because they are so godly and so blessed.  I think she'll be surprised at their reaction. 

[BitterApple]

31 minutes ago, Normades said:

I suspect Jilly thinks she can convince the tuition department that it's god's will that Timothy complete his education when they run out of money because they are so godly and so blessed.  I think she'll be surprised at their reaction. 

I think there's two possibilites. One, they're winging it and hoping to scrape together enough love offerings for Tim to attend school. Or two, he's already been given grants/scholarships and Jilly Rod is conveniently forgetting to mention them just like she conveniently forgot to mention that new car. I don't put anything past that scammer. 

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

While the program is intensively equipment/specialized instruction heavy; it is only in the last couple of years.  Presuming that they charge $30,000 a year every year rather than increasing tuition through the years as the kid progresses; they are going to be getting more than they are putting out on kids in the first 2-3 years and, then, by the time the remaining kids are ready for the really expensive stuff; Moody has collected far more than they've spent on the lower classmen and can use a portion of any surplus to support the more expensive stuff.  I'd be willing to bet that maybe 3/4 of the kids who start out in the aviation program, which has higher tuition that the other offerings, end up leaving either due to finances or academics or just a change of heart; leaving the school with a lot of kids paying top dollar who are never going to use the pricey parts of the programs.

Places like Moody often don't attract the quality of faculty that other schools do and I expect they use a fair amount of teaching staff who wouldn't be employable at other colleges and universities.  But other colleges and universities probably pay much better/ have better benefits than Moody. I suspect there is a litmus test for faculty involving their profession of faith in the 'right' kind of Christianity, which is going to severely limit the pool of prospective teaching staff and also probably convince someone with the 'right' beliefs that it is God's will that they take a lesser salary at Moody.  Same thing with the rest of the auxiliary staff.

Say 10 kids start at Moody and half will finish the aviation program.  The first year, the school collects $300,000 but it must cost a lot less than that for the pure bookwork/no hands on curriculum.  Maybe only half, leaving $150,000 surplus for that year.  Maybe a third drop out and there's only $100,000 extra the second year.  That is still a $250,000 cushion to help defray any extra costs incurred in the last couple years by the 5 who actually finish.  $50,000, even amortized over 2-3 years, should pay for a whole lot of flight instruction when added to the $60-90,000 each of the ones who finish are already paying.

That makes mathematical sense. However, your initial presumption is inaccurate, according to the school's documents.  (one of which I linked to up above.) 

The tuition actually varies widely from semester to semester, figured directly according to what courses are taught each semester (the curriculum is apparently standardized.) So the tuition for some early semesters is only around $7,000 or so, and in other semesters it's a lot higher.

So in fact they aren't getting any of these cushions. They're charging the kids for the courses they take each semester. 

https://www.moody.edu/siteassets/content/ug-spokane/tuition-and-fees/2016-2017-flight-cost-estimate.pdf

Why are we all so eager to prove that this school is run by a bunch of crooks who take advantage of aspiring little boys? 

[Fuzzysox]

Couldn't Tim go take flying lessons from JD? I don't think it would cost an arm and a leg and he would still be able to be a pilot for going to rescue the heathens.

[Normades]

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

That makes mathematical sense. However, your initial presumption is inaccurate, according to the school's documents.  (one of which I linked to up above.) 

The tuition actually varies widely from semester to semester, figured directly according to what courses are taught each semester (the curriculum is apparently standardized.) So the tuition for some early semesters is only around $7,000 or so, and in other semesters it's a lot higher.

So in fact they aren't getting any of these cushions. They're charging the kids for the courses they take each semester. 

https://www.moody.edu/siteassets/content/ug-spokane/tuition-and-fees/2016-2017-flight-cost-estimate.pdf

Why are we all so eager to prove that this school is run by a bunch of crooks who take advantage of aspiring little boys? 

I don't know that anyone is eager to prove anything about the school. Speaking only for myself, I'm voicing my concerns and opinions about the possibility of Timothy getting a good education and being able to complete the entire course, graduating with a degree. I think, the program is suspect and Timothy would be better served going to a local school or at least starting there to feel things out.  I wasn't eager to prove anything about Plexus either but it pinged my radar as something that takes advantage of people and this school does too. I hope I'm wrong and they help him realize all his dreams, unfortunately I don't think it's likely.

[queenanne]

I don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong with the Moody education, and also don't think they're doing anything outside of what several thousand other private colleges across the United States are doing in terms of charging exorbitant tuition.  Moody proper, which website aggregates the aviation program states that its Chicago presence has been in existence since 1886.  I'm also a bit surprised that everyone seems to think that every "Christian" college is a joke like Crown or the equivalent of a "for-profit" university.  Some are quite well established.  I'm not in love with the "16 credits of general education and 48 of religious education", but primarily for years, as far as I know, Moody turned out next-to-solely future generations of ministers; so that doesn't really surprise me either as a statistic.  And they do have accreditation, even if it's only the CHEA.  

[sleepysuzy]

4 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Yep, there is also the fact that this particular school deals with a lot of kids who were homeschooled for religious, not academic, reasons and there is no way for them to be assured of the quality of their application pool.  They've been around long enough to have a pretty good idea of how many kids they need to admit in order to graduate X number of them.  Some kids are cannon fodder at any school. 

I attended a major state university (you might even say THE state university) and there were plenty of kids in my freshman class who started out in premed (there was an 'adjusting to college' weekly class everyone took and we were divided as to our aspirations).  And, yet, at least half those kids, presumably pretty good students to be thinking of med school in the first place, quit or switched majors by the end of their first year.  Of those who started wanting to go to med school, maybe a quarter of us crossed the finish line and made it.  All colleges have a pyramidal setup and they expect to lose some along the way.

I did grad school at a big state university, and the freshman dropout rate was around 25%. Admissions standards were very low, too. I think the ACT requirement was 17. I taught English 101 and had students who couldn't write coherent sentences. This was back before colleges were doing so many remedial classes.

I think the structure of the tuition at Moody shows that they are not trying to reel in suckers. The rates being lower during the beginning, when students are doing more gen ed courses, bodes well. Hopefully they have a strong academic support program as well.

I work in a field that has both professional and doctrinal standards,  and it is incredibly hard to find job candidates who meet both sets of criteria. It is much easier to find prospects who hold the desired set of beliefs and provide training and education, as Moody seems to do for their aviation program. 

[Mollie]

4 hours ago, doodlebug said:

While the program is intensively equipment/specialized instruction heavy; it is only in the last couple of years.  Presuming that they charge $30,000 a year every year rather than increasing tuition through the years as the kid progresses; they are going to be getting more than they are putting out on kids in the first 2-3 years and, then, by the time the remaining kids are ready for the really expensive stuff; Moody has collected far more than they've spent on the lower classmen and can use a portion of any surplus to support the more expensive stuff.  I'd be willing to bet that maybe 3/4 of the kids who start out in the aviation program, which has higher tuition that the other offerings, end up leaving either due to finances or academics or just a change of heart; leaving the school with a lot of kids paying top dollar who are never going to use the pricey parts of the programs.

Places like Moody often don't attract the quality of faculty that other schools do and I expect they use a fair amount of teaching staff who wouldn't be employable at other colleges and universities.  But other colleges and universities probably pay much better/ have better benefits than Moody. I suspect there is a litmus test for faculty involving their profession of faith in the 'right' kind of Christianity, which is going to severely limit the pool of prospective teaching staff and also probably convince someone with the 'right' beliefs that it is God's will that they take a lesser salary at Moody.  Same thing with the rest of the auxiliary staff.

Say 10 kids start at Moody and half will finish the aviation program.  The first year, the school collects $300,000 but it must cost a lot less than that for the pure bookwork/no hands on curriculum.  Maybe only half, leaving $150,000 surplus for that year.  Maybe a third drop out and there's only $100,000 extra the second year.  That is still a $250,000 cushion to help defray any extra costs incurred in the last couple years by the 5 who actually finish.  $50,000, even amortized over 2-3 years, should pay for a whole lot of flight instruction when added to the $60-90,000 each of the ones who finish are already paying.

Moody closed down all other degree programs offered on the Seattle campus after this year's graduation ceremony in May.  Only the aviation program is still active. This was due to financial reasons, so the institution definitely struggles to stay afloat. 

The aviation school has much lower admission standards than most universities.  For example, high school students applying to enter the University of Arkansas must have a minimum GPA of 3.0 and the average GPA for accepted students is 3.68.  The Moody Aviation College only requires a GPA of 2.0.  The University of Arkansas requires a minimum ACT score of 20 or higher, or the SAT equivalent. The average ACT score for accepted students is 26.  Moody Aviation has no minimum test score requirements.  This is a real indication that Moody will take practically anyone who adheres to its kind of Christianity and can pay the tuition. 

The first year of study at Moody Aviation is for Bible courses and one class in algebra.  I imagine that these courses are fairly easy. During the second and third year, the student takes geometry, physics, just a few Bible courses and 24 courses in aircraft maintenance.  At the end of year three, the student must pass the written, oral and practical exams in the General, Airframe and Powerplant sections of FAA training.  Students who don't pass this test cannot continue with years four and five at Moody Aviation.  They have to drop out. The school can't guarantee that anyone will pass that test, just like a law school can't guarantee that a student will pass the state Bar exam.

[BradandJanet]

4 hours ago, Normades said:

My opinion is that if they have a class of 20 for example, and let's say half of them are well prepared and will probably complete the program.  The other half have been poorly educated and have little chance of success.  They will still have to have the class, pay for the teacher, and pay for the equipment for the first 10.  Why wouldn't you accept tuition for a few years from the others and let them drop at their own rate?  They are warm bodies, paying tuition.  Maybe some of them will surprise the administration and make it, but either way, I see it as a win-win situation.  Money will be paid for resources they would have had to expend anyway.  I don't think the number of students dropping will really matter to them either because they are working with such a specialized group.  The concerns of potential students seems to be more about the right kind of bible/christian than graduation rates.  YMMV

This sounds about right. Most colleges will take some "iffy" students. Sometimes they surprise everyone, especially if they are well mentored. However, legitimate schools see an ethical problem in keeping a student who makes no progress. Still, most schools have them because they bring in income and the parents push hard.

[DragonFaerie]

I feel so bad for Timothy that he has to have remedial classes in math.  Perhaps he will start to realize that mom's homeschooling wasn't all it was cracked up to be.  I hope that when he gets into classes, that he will blossom and enjoy school, eating food, and not sharing an RV sized space with 14 other people.  

I am curious that in Jill's blog she said that Timothy would be working full-time.  How does he already have a job lined up? Does he have a work job lined up at the school like some of my friends had? or through the Church that they found?

I have 4 nieces and nephews - oddly enough all of them are 14.  This past school year - 7th grade, all 4 of them had algebra 1.  Next year they move to geometry.  3 live in TN and 1 in rural Ohio, so if Timothy had been able to attend a real school in West Virginia, he might have been able to pass those math prereqs.  Way to go Jill.

[Nysha]

I'm in Idaho & our public schools are generally in the bottom 5 for the nation, so take my experience as such, but I work as an Academic Assistant/Tutor at a state college. At my college, a LOT of incoming freshmen have to take remedial math classes. Christian homeschoolers almost always do because most of their education is through workbooks and by Junior High School they're pretty much expected to know how to read the instructions and do the worksheet. Since Moody Institute takes homeschoolers, they probably are used to them needing remedial classes and adjust accordingly. 

Even if Timothy isn't taking out a student loan, there's a good chance he's getting Pell Grants and low-income scholarships. Jill wrote that he will have a full-time job while going to school. The school advises first-year students to live in "affordable apartments and houses owned by our partners in ministry", so I'm guessing his wages will cover that.

[Zella]

49 minutes ago, Nysha said:

I'm in Idaho & our public schools are generally in the bottom 5 for the nation, so take my experience as such, but I work as an Academic Assistant/Tutor at a state college. At my college, a LOT of incoming freshmen have to take remedial math classes. Christian homeschoolers almost always do because most of their education is through workbooks and by Junior High School they're pretty much expected to know how to read the instructions and do the worksheet. 

I was homeschooled and met a lot of fellow homeschoolers from Christian backgrounds at the Christian college I attended, and this is something I've noticed too with many of them. I was an English major, and so were most of my fellow homeschoolers I befriended. They were all very bright and were good writers and voracious readers, but they had great difficulty in standard high school math. It was compounded by being able to get out of doing math in their homeschool and/or not having anyone in the house who could help them with the material. (That was my problem too.)

I didn't have to take remedial math, but that's because I had to go for tutoring before I took the ACT. I was very behind (knew basic algebra and a smidge of basic geometry but was quite innocent of all other math knowledge), and we covered a lot of material I am sure I should have learned in high school. Ended up placing in Algebra on the test and actually pulled out an A in the class at a local community college, but that was because I had to spend hours on the homework, had a very patient professor, and was not shy about asking her for help when I didn't understand the material. 

At the college I attended, humanities students could take something that wasn't College Algebra to fulfill their gen ed math requirement, and as a transfer student, that made me so angry. Every one of my homeschool friends who struggled with math took that instead of algebra and still had considerable trouble with it. We're all still friends and that was a few years ago, but I'm still bitter that they didn't have to take algebra. LOL 

Edited June 29, 2018 by Zella

[doodlebug]

5 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

That makes mathematical sense. However, your initial presumption is inaccurate, according to the school's documents.  (one of which I linked to up above.) 

The tuition actually varies widely from semester to semester, figured directly according to what courses are taught each semester (the curriculum is apparently standardized.) So the tuition for some early semesters is only around $7,000 or so, and in other semesters it's a lot higher.

So in fact they aren't getting any of these cushions. They're charging the kids for the courses they take each semester. 

https://www.moody.edu/siteassets/content/ug-spokane/tuition-and-fees/2016-2017-flight-cost-estimate.pdf

Why are we all so eager to prove that this school is run by a bunch of crooks who take advantage of aspiring little boys? 

I don’t think the school is run by a bunch of crooks, but I also think they have set tuition at a level that allows them to keep the doors open whether we can figure out how they do it or not. It doesn’t really matter what the tuition is compared to other schools, Moody has been around for decades now, they know how to manage their finances.  Maybe there are some wealthy fundies  out there anf they’ve created a huge endowment.

Ido think, however, that one of the reasons they can keep afloat is that their faculty isn’t compensated as well as that at secular schools.

Edited June 29, 2018 by doodlebug

[MichaelaRae]

Even the secular schools, the faculty aren't that well compensated. I have several friends who teach at the university level, private and state schools. Most of them are adjunct professors, which pays a LOT less then a tenured professor, often lets them get away with not providing real benefits compared to full-time staff (another huge cost savings) , and lets the university get out of any kind of full-time, tenured professorship aspect. It's actually become a huge issue in higher education. They're saving lots of money compared to how much they were spending on professors before while still increasing tuition constantly. Trust me, the margin they are making per student at Moody or anywhere else is just fine - even if the kid flunks out after one semester. That's one semester of profit they got that they wouldn't have gotten if they didn't let him in at all.

[Zella]

10 minutes ago, MichaelaRae said:

Even the secular schools, the faculty aren't that well compensated. I have several friends who teach at the university level, private and state schools. Most of them are adjunct professors, which pays a LOT less then a tenured professor, often lets them get away with not providing real benefits compared to full-time staff (another huge cost savings) , and lets the university get out of any kind of full-time, tenured professorship aspect. It's actually become a huge issue in higher education. They're saving lots of money compared to how much they were spending on professors before while still increasing tuition constantly. Trust me, the margin they are making per student at Moody or anywhere else is just fine - even if the kid flunks out after one semester. That's one semester of profit they got that they wouldn't have gotten if they didn't let him in at all.

Yep! I worked as a teaching assistant when I was in grad school at a state university. A lot of the people in my department were adjuncts, though they weren't formally called that, and they were all extremely qualified folks with Ph.Ds and sometimes decades of teaching experience who were holding out for tenured positions. They had none of the benefits of being a professor, were on limited contracts that would not be renewed after a set number of years, and juggled multiple part-time jobs to make ends meet. They were constantly looking for other jobs that just weren't there and stressed out, worrying about what to do next. Watching them struggle to pay their bills was a big reason why I decided not to enter the Ph.D. program. 

Edited June 29, 2018 by Zella

[Love2dance]

14 hours ago, Normades said:

 Even if this school completely on the level, I'm not sure he will be able to hang in there -- socially or educationally.  Guys at that age can be brutal.  They really tend to rib each other and even haze from time to time.  I worry that Timothy will not be able to handle it.

If Tim could survive growing up with his parents, he can handle anything.

[Jeeves]

8 hours ago, Nysha said:

Even if Timothy isn't taking out a student loan, there's a good chance he's getting Pell Grants and low-income scholarships. Jill wrote that he will have a full-time job while going to school. The school advises first-year students to live in "affordable apartments and houses owned by our partners in ministry", so I'm guessing his wages will cover that.

Working full-time. Now that would be a first for a member of that drifting grifting family.

[Nysha]

6 hours ago, Love2dance said:

If Tim could survive growing up with his parents, he can handle anything.

I think he has a 50/50 chance of being another Derick Dillard given how wacky his parents are. We'll find out when/if he ever gets on social media.

However, my hope is that he is successful in Spokane and in his chosen career. Jill & David may be more wacko socially than JB & Michelle, but in this instance, they're totally outshining anything the Duggar parents have done. They've not only allowed Timothy the right to dream big for his future, but they're supporting him in accomplishing his dream. Yes, they've chosen his new church and they're dragging the whole family to drop him off at college, but they're still letting him go. 

[Jeeves]

Let's go with the idea that this is Tim's dream. Because of course Jill is already basking in the reflected glory that her oldest son is going to be a fundie missionary aviation rock star.

I wonder if she'd be so thrilled if he wanted to be a mechanic working on cars and trucks. Which, BTW, is not a bad gig. Certified auto/truck mechanics are in demand and can make a good living. But, they aren't fundie rockstars. 

So I inevitably wonder how much of this is Tim's idea and how much his doting mother steered him in that direction. But if the kid actually holds down a full time job and gets to live away from his nutjob parents without having some kind of breakdown? That would be great. I wish him well. 

Edited June 29, 2018 by Jeeves

[Normades]

11 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

Let's go with the idea that this is Tim's dream. Because of course Jill is already basking in the reflected glory that her oldest son is going to be a fundie missionary aviation rock star.

I wonder if she'd be so thrilled if he wanted to be a mechanic working on cars and trucks. Which, BTW, is not a bad gig. Certified auto/truck mechanics are in demand and can make a good living. But, they aren't fundie rockstars. 

So I inevitably wonder how much of this is Tim's idea and how much his doting mother steered him in that direction. But if the kid actually holds down a full time job and gets to live away from his nutjob parents without having some kind of breakdown? That would be great. I wish him well. 

Yes, don't forget everything is all about Jilly.  Her kids are just an extension of her and are there to bring glory unto her.  It reminds me of Saturday Night Fever where the older brother had gone into the priesthood, but was now questioning his decision.  John Travolta says something to his parents along the lines of "now you're mad because you lost the glory of the get into heaven free card now that your son is leaving the priesthood."  I totally believe this is something Jilly steered her kid into.  She's mirroring the Duggars and wants the pilot son like them.  Having him be a missionary one ups them, so that's great for her.  To me, her kids haven't been given enough agency to really make decisions about what they truly want.  Unfortunately they are probably too far gone to ever really make those decisions.  I do, however, want to see Timothy be successful and am rooting for him.  I hope getting some distance between them will help, but I'm not optimistic. 

[Fuzzysox]

11 hours ago, Nysha said:

The school advises first-year students to live in "affordable apartments and houses owned by our partners in ministry", so I'm guessing his wages will cover that.

I smell a great business opportunity for Boob and JD. Boob provides the student housing and JD makes money giving flying lessons if he is eligible. 

[BitterApple]

Is Tim really going to be working full time or is Jill just saying that hoping her groupies feel bad and send money? The reason I ask is because juggling a 40/50 hr a week job plus a full course load is extremely hard for people who are academically up to par. We're talking about a kid who's math skills are junior high level at best. There just aren't enough hours in the day to accommodate the studying he's going to need to do to keep up.

[Albanyguy]

5 minutes ago, Fuzzysox said:

I smell a great business opportunity for Boob and JD. Boob provides the student housing and JD makes money giving flying lessons if he is eligible. 

"Duggar University"!!! Michelle could teach courses in Bankruptcy Law, Jana could teach Landscaping, Jill could train and certify midwives...the possibilities are endless!

[Libby96]

7 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Is Tim really going to be working full time or is Jill just saying that hoping her groupies feel bad and send money? The reason I ask is because juggling a 40/50 hr a week job plus a full course load is extremely hard for people who are academically up to par. We're talking about a kid who's math skills are junior high level at best. There just aren't enough hours in the day to accommodate the studying he's going to need to do to keep up.

I hope for his sake he is not working a full time job!  Certainly part time to pay for food/housing is understandable, but trying to work full time along with a full class load as an incoming freshman would be very difficult.  I know there are people who juggle this, and I hugely admire that, but I think poor Timothy has a better chance of success if he's just working 20 hours a week or so.

[LilJen]

I agree with someone upthread that the only reason the ENTIRE family is going with Tim is to grift. It's the Thank You, God, for Timothy's Tuition Tour. They'll stop in every Podunk town between WV and WA that has an IFB church and beg. Wanna bet they pay his first semester's tuition in wads of small cash?

[Absolom]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

Is Tim really going to be working full time or is Jill just saying that hoping her groupies feel bad and send money? The reason I ask is because juggling a 40/50 hr a week job plus a full course load is extremely hard for people who are academically up to par.

I think Jill said Timothy was going to be working full time the first year when he was supposedly doing the first year online and at home.  Maybe she has repeated that after admitting he had to do the first year in residence and I missed it. 

[doodlebug]

7 minutes ago, Absolom said:

I think Jill said Timothy was going to be working full time the first year when he was supposedly doing the first year online and at home.  Maybe she has repeated that after admitting he had to do the first year in residence and I missed it. 

In her blog post, she mentioned the full time job when talking about him doing class online the first year.  She doesn't specifically mention a job when she later said he had to move to Spokane, but, if he couldn't afford to take online classes without working, I don't know how he's going to be able to survive living in another city and attending classes on site.  Then again, knowing Jill, she might charge him room and board at home.  Lady Clairol and Mary Kay don't grow on trees.

It sounds like his job at home is mowing lawns, doing basic landscaping; so he probably would have to invest in some rather expensive equipment if he was to continue doing yardwork in Spokane.

[queenanne]

1 hour ago, LilJen said:

I agree with someone upthread that the only reason the ENTIRE family is going with Tim is to grift. It's the Thank You, God, for Timothy's Tuition Tour. They'll stop in every Podunk town between WV and WA that has an IFB church and beg. Wanna bet they pay his first semester's tuition in wads of small cash?

Oh, I hope they’re not that dumb, because my school in the 90s assuredly wanted your tuition paid before you stepped foot on campus, and in fact I had to get the dean of students to intercede in order that they didn’t give my housing away; and this was literally a situation where once I got the  last weeks check from my summer job, I would have had the balance paid.  The dean in fact had to step in yet again and compel the bursar to let me start class; and you better believe I was not the only person standing in the bursars line that week either.

[Normades]

Well, who knows what Jilly thinks full time work is. She might think 5 hours a week is full time since she would have no frame of reference!

Also, if he wants to do landscaping in Spokane, wouldn't that leave him jobless in the winter? I have no idea about snow. I'm a lifetime Flor-idiot.

[Lunera]

Marjorie's little brother is here. I'm guessing the Jacksons were going to skip out on the most boring wedding of the year, anyway. 

Edited June 29, 2018 by Lunera

[dargosmydaddy]

4 minutes ago, Lunera said:

Marjorie's little brother is here. I'm guessing the Jackson's were going to skip out on the most boring wedding of the year, anyway. 

Just think, if she had married Josiah, little Grant could have a niece/ nephew playmate or two by now...

[BitterApple]

Sweet baby, but wow, I didn't even know Marge's mother was pregnant. What are they up to now? Six kids? 

[Lunera]

21 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Sweet baby, but wow, I didn't even know Marge's mother was pregnant. What are they up to now? Six kids? 

It's her 6th baby and probably their last. I wonder if it was a surprise baby or if they were really hoping for a boy. Both her parents are already in their 40s.

Edited June 30, 2018 by Lunera

[sixlets]

On 6/28/2018 at 3:03 PM, Churchhoney said:

Yep, I agree that the Rodriguezes don't have money and can afford next to nothing! 

This isn't an online school or a school with a high tuition, though. It's an offline school with a tuition that's below the national average. So it's not quite this scenario.

I think we just differ about our basic ideas about what this school might be doing.

My guess is that because this school wants conservative Christian aviation people, they're well accustomed to accepting kids who show some promise but who don't meet some basic standards -- mostly math -- because they've been homeschooled by mommy and her online courses. They don't have a lot of other choices because of the particular beliefs they want their grades to hold. But my guess is also that they may know from their 50-year-plus experience that they can bring a lot of these kids up to standards, and that they aspire to because they really want to keep that missionary aviation pipeline full. Whereas I think your guess is that they're more likely to operate like a diploma mill that tries to rake in as many kids and bucks as they can, even if they make only about two bucks a kid, and that they don't care what happens to those kids, at their school or afterwards.

Could go either way, obviously! 

2

This is a big part of what makes these types of schools predatory.  They will accept a student like Timothy knowing said student will have to take some basic courses in the beginning.  School says they will give them a chance.  Student gets all excited about being accepted to college.  School then takes the money from the student.  That amount of money is outrageous to just pick up some missing math classes.  Timothy could take a similar class at a community college for less than half of what he is paying Moody.  Many students will do community college for pre-reqs that will transfer to another institution just because it's so much cheaper.  Once schools, like Moody, have your money, they don't give two hoots about whether you finish your degree or not.  

I did come across this little gem from 2015.  It sounds like the Rod family fits right in.

[ginger90]

Grab a bottle, light something up, it’s longer than I thought!!

 

New blog post by Jill. (I did not include all of the Bible quotes)

 

Rodrigues Children updates / pictures along with update on Janessa’s brain progress. June 2018

Posted on June 30, 2018 by Rodrigues Family

It has been a busy last few weeks!  We thought we’d take a moment to update you on God’s faithfulness and Goodness in our lives and in the lives of our PRECIOUS 13 children!  We are blessed, we are blessed, every day when we live, we are blessed!  When we wake up in the morning or we lay our heads to rest, we are blessed, we are blessed!!   Please also enjoy the powerful verses taken STRAIGHT from the Bible.  May they encourage and teach you the principles and truths that we should all LIVE by according to God’s Holy Word!                        -Dave and Jill and 13 children

 

**UPDATE ONE:

On the road again! I spoke at a Ladies’ Mtg in Kentucky, and then we headed to Ohio to an old fashioned Camp Mtg to sing.  There is JOY in serving Jesus!  

 

Later………It was a GREAT weekend at Bible Baptist Tabernacle in Cambellsville, Kentucky.  Thank you for your love and hospitality to our family, dear church!!  Then, we headed to Ohio for an old fashioned TENT revival. 

 

Even Later……….Camp Meeting week went great! Just OLD Fashioned, convicting of sin preaching is SO refreshing!  

 

In June – in Virginia (we were in that area due to going to the Homeschool Convention)…….

What a busy weekend it was fitting in Timothy’s graduation and then on Sunday singing at 2 different churches!!  What GREAT people we have met the last few days! 

 

Well, I just HAVE to say what a TREMENDOUS blessing I received when we had Caleb and Katie Garraway and their 3 beautiful children to our house for lunch on a lovely  Saturday in June. Then, Sunday night the family sang and Caleb preached at our church.

WOW! What a blessing! Their singing was gorgeous and Caleb’s preaching refreshes me EVERY time I hear it! 

In a world where it seems everyone (including Christians) are only 10 steps behind the world and it’s ways, it is SO incredibly encouraging to see a family that is choosing (with a passion) the OLD PATHS! The paths of truth and righteousness according to God’s Holy Word- the Bible. 

We have known Caleb and Katie since they were teens and we LOVE them and DEEPLY appreciate their desire to see TRUE revival in the modern day church!

 

***UPDATE TWO (all about Janessa):

I JUST turn my light off and tiptoe to bed. My body is crying out for SLEEP!  I fall into a blissful sleep for a total of 20 minutes and then hear Janessa begin to cry. Wearily, I rise, turn back on the light, and take care of my precious baby girl.   My sleep is sporadic and limited.

 

However, as I lovingly gaze at Janessa’s face and gently stroke her soft head and tenderly kiss her smooth face and cute nose, tears pool in my eyes. I am blessed BEYOND measure to have gone through many sleepless nights 13 times!  Every sacrifice made for my precious babies, brings me joy and fulfillment!

Mamas, cherish the moments, soon you’ll be apart. Cling to the memories, clasp them to your heart. Time is fleeting and while it slips through my fingers like sand, I am tucking away each precious moment forever in the inner recesses of my heart – to someday pull back out to sweetly remember. 

 

**FUNNY Story about Janessa.  LOL

I was carefully changing Janessa’s dirty diaper, when she started passing more gas.

“Oh no”, I murmured to the girls. “I hope she doesn’t have to go more!”

As the words exited my mouth, Janessa let out a HUGE grunt and her soft, nursing stools LET LOOSE! The yellow, liquid poop squirted straight on my face, hair and blouse – splattering all over me. I look like I had been decorated with yellow, seedy mustard.

My girls began laughing while they exclaimed, “Mama, we are so sorry!”

I have 13 children, but this was a first. LOL. I think this picture depicts what Janessa was doing inside….laughing. Loving every moment…I THINK. LOL.  Jill

 

Janessa is getting bigger!! So, it is back to working out for me! Got my RUN in for today! Yeah!  I enjoyed doing it with Nurie, Timothy and Gabriel.  #plexusinspiresme

 

This MIRACLE continues to unfold in front of our very eyes!  Janessa continues to defy the odds. With all her brain issues, we are THRILLED at every step of progress! She continues to (thus far) stay right on target with development!  God is TOO good to us! We give Him thanks! Kaylee (thank God) continues to capture these precious moments on camera. 

 

Thank you to a dear friend of ours for making these adorable onesies for Janessa! She always looks SO cute in them. You are a sweetheart!  We love you and your family!  Jill, Janessa and Family 

 

We sure do LOVE this little girl!  God, THANK YOU for your blessings to us! We are so undeserving and abundantly filled with joy!!  

 

I seriously cannot believe that on June 11th, Janessa turned 2 months old.  She is the LOVE of ALL of our lives and she CONTINUES to amaze us all!  We love you, pumpkin! 

 

Janessa had her Pediatric Neurologist Doctor appointment and again, we are amazed at her progress.  Sometimes I worry about her and wonder if my imagination sees signs of her differences. But honestly, she acts no different (at this stage in her development) than her other 12 siblings.  I continue to rejoice at God’s Goodness to us! I am trusting Him along this unknown journey of our precious Janessa and life in general.

Thank you for your continued prayers for Janessa to defy the obstacles of her brain deformities. Maybe I should not call it that though, because she is fashioned JUST the way God made her!  People have led NORMAL lives with Janessa’s same diagnosis. That is our prayer for her. 

 

***UPDATE THREE:

Our precious 13 children. (This included individual pictures of each child, not including them here.)

 

***UPDATE FOUR:

Birthdays……………

GabrieI:   I simply cannot believe that it was 12 years ago today I gave birth to my baby boy- Gabriel.  He is the sweetest, kindest, most cheerful boy you have ever met! Mama LOVES you, Gabriel!  You are such a healthy, vibrant boy! You bring Mama (and our family) MUCH joy!  HAPPY BIRTHDAY! 

 

David:   Happy 46th Birthday to my wonderful husband- David! I decided to make him chili (one of his favorites) and cupcakes for his special day!  We all enjoyed going around the table and expressing our gratitude for what a great husband / dad he is! 

 

Renee:     Renee turned sweet 16!

 

Somehow my Mother’s heart has a constant, dull ache. How is it that just 2 weeks ago I had ALL 13 children in our home and now one has already flown the nest?

 

 

How is it that my girls almost died the other day (due to the car accident our 2 oldest girls were in)? How is it that life is SO fragile and we never know what a moment may hold?

How is it that our ENTIRE GOAL for raising our children is to send then out like arrows to hit the mark of passionate Christian living….whatever that may be according to their personal calling of God upon their lives. YET, when you send forth that child (arrow) you deeply MISS their presence in your quiver?

Oh, how is it that life seems to be so deeply mixed with joys, yet sorrow.

It makes me want to snuggle them more. Visit with them. Teach them. Love them. And…..cherish every moment with them, for I never know when it may be my last. 

HAPPY 16TH, Renee! You are an IMMENSE joy in our home! Your sweet, compassionate, servant’s heart is SUCH a blessing to us all!

Our Love To You Always, Mama (and Daddy too)  

 

P.S. Instead of worldly, sensual “Prom”, our children (when they turn 16) get to dress up, pick a friend to come with them, and we take them out to a nice restaurant for a delicious dinner. Thank you for coming with Renee, Lilly Schaible!

 

**UPDATE FIVE:  (Pro-Life ALL the way)

(I’m not including what she wrote, and a letter she received and posted)

 

**UPDATE SIX:

Renee competed at the Homeschool Convention Music Competition in Richmond, VA.  She played the “Orange Blossom Special”. (Kaylee accompanied her on the mandolin). 

 

SOOO proud of this girl! She spent a year learning the song she played in the competition and spent countless hours perfecting it…..even to the point of her shoulder aching! 

“I LOVED seeing what HIGH scores you received from the judges, honey! WOW! You BLEW it away today, Renee!”    With Love, Mama and All (Kaylee, thank you for accompanying her on your mandolin and doing a TREMENDOUS job!) 

 

***UPDATE SEVEN:

Some quality family time. (Followed by a bunch of pictures, not including them, lol)

 

Serving Jesus Until the Trumpet Sounds or We Draw Our Last Breath,

David and Jill Rodrigues and our 13 Treasures from God

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2018 by ginger90

[doodlebug]

Went down the rabbit hole and read the blog post.  WTF?  Some observations:

-Jill says they are no longer a family of 13 kids, that one has flown the nest.  But, as we know, the current cross country trip is so they can ALL go to Spokane and drop Timothy off at Bible College.  And, there he is, in picture after picture.  Jill is drinking so much Plexus, she can't count to 13 anymore.

-Kaylee has remarkable healing ability, she looks very good, or at least as good as any teen with 90's hair and makeup wearing frumpwear can look.  You can't even tell her eye was completely swollen shut a couple weeks ago.

-Gabriel, the birthday boy, is probably the most unfortunate looking child in a family full of homely kids.  Now he's 12, I hope braces are coming soon.  He looks like his father, poor child

-Janessa is a really cute baby when Jill isn't putting stupid bows on her head.

Edited July 2, 2018 by doodlebug

[queenanne]

Do you suppose Jill RUNS (!?) in long prairie skirts? 

or do you think she'd consider it adequate to get by with some OLD board shorts belonging to a male?

Those are some really unfortunate pictures of her scrawny offspring.  The keyboard picture nicely shows off Nurie's great big lollipop head.  How can anyone seeing them together, think those are normal weighted, adequately nourished children??

[Fuzzysox]

So in many, many words, Jill told us that instead of being invited to the Duggar wedding they went singing to sooo many churches with her hoard of children.

The girls are the unfortunate looking ones. Good haircuts and some modern clothes would make them look better.  The boys aren't as bad. 

Edited July 2, 2018 by Fuzzysox

[queenanne]

I think the boys come off worse because they all look like skeletons draped in denim from the waist down.  It's possible that if I saw the Rod girls' legs I'd be equally appalled, but you don't see bones poking out of their arms that I could notice.

[ginger90]

Procrastinating here, so.......not sure if they’ll post in order, but conveniently, Jill has them numbered.