Sweet Fellowship: Duggars and Friends (aka the Bates Family and Other Featured Families Thread)

[galaxychaser]

Pasta costs $1 a box.  At least feed kids that.  Or peanut butter sandwiches.  So sad.  Heck veggie soup won't cost much to cook at home. 

[OpieTaylor]

Jill is clearly jealous of all the young fundy women getting married these days, so she decided to become a bride again.

[MunichNark]

7 hours ago, Fuzzysox said:

Pictures don't lie. A good one of how skinny the kids are and their skink bus home might open someone's eyes.

Right. Do cps have a website? I will do it. These kids need help

[dreamingtree]

Ok, I looked back a few pages, and I can't find the coconut video,  Can someone link it?

I thought that the Rods had a house now, but are they back to living in the RV?

And, I readily confess that the Zuppa Toscana at my local OG makes my mouth water. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

20 minutes ago, dreamingtree said:

Ok, I looked back a few pages, and I can't find the coconut video,  Can someone link it?

I thought that the Rods had a house now, but are they back to living in the RV?

And, I readily confess that the Zuppa Toscana at my local OG makes my mouth water. 

Just go to YouTube and type Rodrigues Family Coconut.

Chimpy was so proud of the coconut being "free" because they found it.

Thought of them as Irma knocked coconuts off the trees in Florida.  Maybe we'll be treated to a video of the Rodriguii going scrumping for coconuts.

[dreamingtree]

So David R could be the Coconut Thief, and we could have 1 nut thieves, David Waller (aka Pecan Thief), and David R ( coconut thief

[Arwen Evenstar]

3 minutes ago, dreamingtree said:

So David R could be the Coconut Thief, and we could have 1 nut thieves, David Waller (aka Pecan Thief), and David R ( coconut thief

Yessssss! He and his starving kids can fill their Bible Bee bags with coconuts!

I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts deedley Dee...see them all a standing in a row...

[tabloidlover]

Now it's Nuri who is fasting.  From Jill's FB:
 

Quote

 

I am just SOOO thankful for all 8 of my girls. My oldest 4 girls (Nurie-18 yrs., Kaylee-16 yrs, Renee-15 yrs., and Tessie-10 yrs.) are SUCH a blessing in our home. I could NEVER do what I do without their cheerful help. :) Can I share something SUPER sweet with you?

The other day, I called everyone for dinner. Everyone came, except Nurie. I asked the children where she was, and they replied that she was fasting for that entire day. <3

Later that day, I hugged her and as...ked her why she was fasting. I had some scares with this pregnancy, so she was fasting for our baby to be WELL and she said she was also fasting for the people in Texas, devastated by so much loss from the hurricane. :(
It blessed my heart through and through that she cared SO much for her little sibling and for the people suffering in Texas.

That is just how my children are. There is no hypocrisy. They are just as sweet behind closed doors as in public. Yes, I have a "stubborn" child that has taken every OUNCE of consistency and patience on David's and my part to raise. But even he has developed into a young man that I am pleased with. His goals are godly and he brings me home candy bars and tells me he loves me and that my fall decorations look nice and much more. <3

 

https://www.facebook.com/search/str/david%2Bjill%2Bnoyes%2Brodrigues/stories-keyword/stories-public?esd=eyJlc2lkIjoiUzpfSTEwMDAwNjg1MDg3ODE5MjoxOTMzNTk1NTUzNTQ1NDU1IiwicHNpZCI6eyIxMDAwMDY4NTA4NzgxOTI6MTkzMzU5NTU1MzU0NTQ1NSI6IlV6cGZTVEV3TURBd05qZzFNRGczT0RFNU1qb3hPVE16TlRrMU5UVXpOVFExTkRVMSJ9LCJjcmN0IjoidGV4dCIsImNzaWQiOiI4MjYwYzQ5NDZjZmVkODI0YjNlMzZmYzM3NzAzMWFiMCJ9

[dargosmydaddy]

3 minutes ago, tabloidlover said:

His goals are godly and he brings me home candy bars

I just don't even know what to say about that... is she holding these two traits as equally admirable?

[ChiCricket]

26 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Just go to YouTube and type Rodrigues Family Coconut.

Chimpy was so proud of the coconut being "free" because they found it.

Thought of them as Irma knocked coconuts off the trees in Florida.  Maybe we'll be treated to a video of the Rodriguii going scrumping for coconuts.

The coconut part is at about 7:42 in...not that I just watched it or anything ;-)

    The husband sounds a little like Ray Romano to me. Thankfully, you don't have to see his fugly face in this. The kids do look sickly and skeletal :(

[dreamingtree]

I know everyone is on here calls him chimpy, but to me he looks like the Disney version of Quasimodo from the Hunchback of Notre Dame. 

These 2 are horrible.  How they are raising those kids makes me ill.  Even without the ridiculous and harmful religious rhetoric, but the living conditions are terrible.  Their poor kids.  It is sad when the best thing we could hope for the girls, anyway,  is that someone kindly fundie man will marry them and at least provide them with a stable roof over their heads and 3 squares/day. 

And I hate that she has apparently taught these children that their empty bellies are righteous and godly.  To praise a teenaged very thin girl for fasting is so damaging.  In addition the extreme emphasis on their appearance in some sort of homage to the late 1980's styling is so bizarre.  The crazy is so palpable in this situation that I doubt any famous fundie will take an interest in the girls.  And sadly they are ripe for further exploitation, because the only way these people can continue on in this mess is if they start to offload some of the older kids.   I know it is unlikely that CPS would intervene as they are understaffed and already have so many nightmares to investigate.  But it is unfortunate. 

[Jynnan tonnix]

21 minutes ago, tabloidlover said:

Now it's Nuri who is fasting.  From Jill's FB:
 

https://www.facebook.com/search/str/david%2Bjill%2Bnoyes%2Brodrigues/stories-keyword/stories-public?esd=eyJlc2lkIjoiUzpfSTEwMDAwNjg1MDg3ODE5MjoxOTMzNTk1NTUzNTQ1NDU1IiwicHNpZCI6eyIxMDAwMDY4NTA4NzgxOTI6MTkzMzU5NTU1MzU0NTQ1NSI6IlV6cGZTVEV3TURBd05qZzFNRGczT0RFNU1qb3hPVE16TlRrMU5UVXpOVFExTkRVMSJ9LCJjcmN0IjoidGV4dCIsImNzaWQiOiI4MjYwYzQ5NDZjZmVkODI0YjNlMzZmYzM3NzAzMWFiMCJ9

This is the part that really intrigues me:

Quote

Yes, I have a "stubborn" child that has taken every OUNCE of consistency and patience on David's and my part to raise. But even he has developed into a young man that I am pleased with.

I really wonder what sort of "consistency and patience" they use for "stubborn" kids. And what, exactly, is their definition of "stubborn" to begin with? Was he a truly difficult kid or merely a curious one who had a mind of his own asked the wrong questions? Is his spirit broken, or is he biding his time until he can make an escape? How absolutely closeted do you need to keep kids to ensure that they will grow up in the firm belief that what you have told them is the only truth that matters? These people just boggle my mind! Is it even remotely possible that kids like these could be raised with nothing but love, kindness and patience? I mean, if that's really the only technique they use, I suppose I can't fault them even if I think it's monstrously unfair to keep kids so cloistered, but to have that many kids who ALL toe the same exact line, there's got to be some sort of real fear in their minds of the consequences, be they immediate or in the next world (or both), and raising kids in a spirit of terror is not something I can get behind.

[BradandJanet]

Nurie is very thin and she needs nutrition at her age. I can't believe that stupid Jill is praising her for fasting so Jill can eat for another baby and Chimpy can expand his girth. Also, I bet the Rodriguii aren't sending any money to people in Texas. Jill is spending it on hair products and makeup. Ugh, these people are nuts. 

[louannems]

JillR is singing the praises of To Train Up A Child, the child abuse manuel by the Pearls. She has successfully raised her children because of that book, she says, ignoring the fact she has an RV full of unraised kids.

[Fuzzysox]

1 hour ago, dreamingtree said:

Ok, I looked back a few pages, and I can't find the coconut video,  Can someone link it?

I thought that the Rods had a house now, but are they back to living in the RV?

And, I readily confess that the Zuppa Toscana at my local OG makes my mouth water. 

Jill prayed and prayed for a house. Magically it appeared out of no where. We suspect that it was grifted from some poor old lady that had no family and left that house to her and her brew after seeing how sad they looked living on the skink bus.

After Jill prayed and got her house, for some strange reason, they hit the road on the stink bus because working hard is not for Chimpy and grifting brings in fame and $$$$$.

Jill's parents are having a house built in WV so they are currently living in the house while the family gets crammed on the skink bus so they can travel, take pictures with other fundie families, find a husband for Nurie, sing their hearts out because they do it all for the love of JESUS!!

[Churchhoney]

43 minutes ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

This is the part that really intrigues me:

I really wonder what sort of "consistency and patience" they use for "stubborn" kids. And what, exactly, is their definition of "stubborn" to begin with? Was he a truly difficult kid or merely a curious one who had a mind of his own asked the wrong questions? Is his spirit broken, or is he biding his time until he can make an escape? How absolutely closeted do you need to keep kids to ensure that they will grow up in the firm belief that what you have told them is the only truth that matters? These people just boggle my mind! Is it even remotely possible that kids like these could be raised with nothing but love, kindness and patience? I mean, if that's really the only technique they use, I suppose I can't fault them even if I think it's monstrously unfair to keep kids so cloistered, but to have that many kids who ALL toe the same exact line, there's got to be some sort of real fear in their minds of the consequences, be they immediate or in the next world (or both), and raising kids in a spirit of terror is not something I can get behind.

Nope. Not possible. Children grow up to be individuals who aspire to some form of independent adulthood. Unless something stops them. The most frequent thing that stops them is parents like this.

Note that these are devotees of the Pearls. That, by itself, proves that it's entirely about tyranny and control. They call it love, kindness and patience. But there have been psychopaths who've stored captives in basements while swearing that they were treating them with love, kindness and patience. 

Then we have stuff like this, from survivors of this kind of a homeschooling world -- which is way more widespread among psychologically warped, power-hungry adults who happily cover their creepiness with claims to be godly than most can even imagine, I expect. 

https://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2015/12/14/the-battle-of-peer-dependency-part-1/

So let’s create a problem, then see the entire world through this problem, write some stuff that sounds a little like legit psychology to those who know nothing about psychology, and then write a book on how you overcame this salvation-threatening problem and saved the souls of your children. Mother as the martyr-savior. This is starting to sound all-too familiar.

“Some may think that being peer dependent is not such a bad thing….however, Scripture is clear that it is a very big deal to God. In fact, if is God’s desire for the father to have his children’s hearts, because in the last days, if they don’t, He will smite the earth with a curse.”

The above quote is really important if you want to understand the undercurrent of the homeschool movement.

Gothard and other homeschool leaders loved the scripture in Malachi 4:6 that said “And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.” And upon this verse they built their cults. This verse was used to promote everything from Vision Forum’s “Biblical Patriarchy” and Family Integrated Churches to the pet doctrines of homeschooling and was very likely part of the foundation for the entire homeschooling movement in the 80’s and 90’s. Homeschooling was supposed to turn the father’s hearts toward their children and vice versa. We were told that this was the only way to promote God’s Kingdom on earth, that this was God’s will for families, that it would be the only way to have a strong nation. This verse was used to justify all kind of cult-like family practices, including not allowing peer friendships and individual social lives, as you see throughout Sears’ book.

In reality, it was about control.

“Another factor involved when a father does not have his child’s heart is the principle that whoever has the heart of your child controls him.”

That’s about the most honest statement I’ve seen in any of these books on “keeping your child’s heart”.

“Peer dependency is the loss of your child’s heart. Dressing, talking, and having the same morals is just the beginning. When a father has lost the heart of his child, the child is torn between the direction and wishes of his parents and that of his friends. In the beginning, he may still desire to please his parents. As time goes on, however, the family will experience great turmoil as the peer dependent young persona grows deeper into dependency and rebellion. People who are peer dependent will find themselves beginning to lower the standards that their parents have tried to instill in them. Even young people who have grown up in very godly homes will suffer the consequences and bondage of peer dependency.”

Please tell me that others can see what is happening here, what is actually being said. “Peer dependency is the loss of your child’s heart” and your control over him, per this author. This reads like a manual of how to isolate your kids and ensure that they will never be exposed to anything other than your own teachings; that they will never learn to think for themselves; that they will never question you and your rules.

These are instructions on how to control your children and to rid them of free will and ensure they turn out to be the people you decide they will be.

This is the goal, very clearly stated, of the homechooling movement that I and my friends grew up in. We were raised in cults, even those of us who weren’t part of ATI or Vision Forum or other organized groups. Our families became cults and operated at such. Complete with ultimate authoritarian control, emotional abuse, religious manipulation, isolation from outside influences, censorship, physical abuse, and absolutely no accountability to anyone else. Our parents were taught that this was how to have a strong family and this was how to ensure their kids turned into the robots we were meant to be.

The author goes on to use all the right catch-phrases: “they want to be like the world instead of like Christ; a quest for pleasure, materialism, and self-gratification; comfortable with the things of the world; children and young people act differently when they are with their peers than they do with adults; some Christian groups have outward evidence of the Christian life, but they are inwardly peer dependent.” On and on and on she goes, setting up this danger, this battle, this threat to families and children. THINK OF THE CHILDREN.

“The particular child who was deeply involved in peer dependency was in complete turmoil in his soul. He would argue and fight against the direction of our family but be repentant at night over his bad attitude and hurtful actions. [He] was in such turmoil that he made the whole family miserable.” [emphasis mine]

Raise your hand if, like me, you were told that your stubbornness and rebellion was making your entire family miserable. If you were told that “if you would just submit to God’s will for our family and stop questioning and being ornery and rebellious, then we wouldn’t be having so many problems.”

Raise your hand if your parents followed teachings that made you, in all practicality, the scapegoat.

Dysfunctional doesn’t even begin to describe the consequences of being raised with such toxic teachings. Try for a minute to imagine being a 14-yr-old, struggling with suicidal imaginations, thinking everyone hates you, even God, that you are worthless because that’s what your parents and their religion taught you, stuck in the turmoil that is puberty, and being told that your family’s problems are because you are making everyone miserable by not submitting. Because that was my life at 14.

“For 5 years I didn’t understand that the reason he didn’t want to go in the direction that God was pointing our family was because he had decided in his heart that he wanted to go in the direction of his friends. So I approached my child and asked him, ‘Do I have your heart?’ “

A bit of advice: don’t ask your child that. There is no way to ask that without manipulation and heaping guilt on a child’s head. I knew I supposed to say yes, that that was what God wanted for me. I also knew that my heart was not at all safe with my mother, that I needed to protect myself. But when an influential adult comes to you, the child, crying that she doesn’t have your heart, that you don’t trust her, that all she ever wanted was to have your heart and a relationship with you, that this is what God wants and don’t you want what God wants….what the hell are you supposed to say?! I said what I thought I was supposed to. “Yes, of course, Mom.” It was a lie, and I knew it was a lie, but a 14-yr-old doesn’t have the tools to combat religious and emotional manipulation. A 14-yr-old just wants to make it stop.

Next in Part 2, with the problem clearly defined and laid out, we will get to the good part: what to do about it. Spoiler Alert: It’s all terrible advice.

And so on. 

[Gweilo]

My guess is Nurie was fasting so that her younger siblings would have enough food to eat.

[doodlebug]

3 hours ago, dreamingtree said:

Ok, I looked back a few pages, and I can't find the coconut video,  Can someone link it?

I thought that the Rods had a house now, but are they back to living in the RV?

They do have a house in WVa which looks to be fairly nice despite Jill's folksy/crapsy 70's style décor (wreaths and wooden geese and ruffles everywhere).  They acquired it in some shady fashion after she lamented that they needed a home for their Godly family and David's 'business' printing pamphlets for churches for free.  I think they managed to convince some other believer to give it to them for next to nothing or to give them the cash for it.  Jill's parents have a trailer that they live in on the property while building a house for themselves and they move into the Rodriguii home when the family hops in the bus.

Despite the fact that the house looks to be fairly large and comfortable in photos, they still strike out in the RV for months at a time supposedly to sing and bring Jesus to the masses at various churches.  I suspect they need the 'donations' and free meals they get on these trips so living in the bus wins out over living in an actual home much of the time.

[Churchhoney]

2 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

They do have a house in WVa which looks to be fairly nice despite Jill's folksy/crapsy 70's style décor (wreaths and wooden geese and ruffles everywhere).  They acquired it in some shady fashion after she lamented that they needed a home for their Godly family and David's 'business' printing pamphlets for churches for free.  I think they managed to convince some other believer to give it to them for next to nothing or to give them the cash for it.  Jill's parents have a trailer that they live in on the property while building a house for themselves and they move into the Rodriguii home when the family hops in the bus.

Despite the fact that the house looks to be fairly large and comfortable in photos, they still strike out in the RV for months at a time supposedly to sing and bring Jesus to the masses at various churches.  I suspect they need the 'donations' and free meals they get on these trips so living in the bus wins out over living in an actual home much of the time.

Plus, I still wonder whether they harbor a sneaking suspicion that the neglect and deprivation that makes their children look like concentration-camp inhabitants could be all-too-visible to the neighborhood if they spent all their time in one place. And that staying in one place could give the kids better opportunities to get to know some of the locals, hence decreasing their isolation-- and thus potentially the parents' power over them -- and possibly making it easier for them to either escape or talk. It would surprise me, really, if they don't have both those scenarios lurking in the back of their minds -- and hence have two more reasons, in addition to the money they badly need, to keep the children on the move. 

[doodlebug]

10 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Plus, I still wonder whether they harbor a sneaking suspicion that the neglect and deprivation that makes their children look like concentration-camp inhabitants could be all-too-visible to the neighborhood if they spent all their time in one place. And that staying in one place could give the kids better opportunities to get to know some of the locals, hence decreasing their isolation-- and thus potentially the parents' power over them -- and possibly making it easier for them to either escape or talk. It would surprise me, really, if they don't have both those scenarios lurking in the back of their minds -- and hence have two more reasons, in addition to the money they badly need, to keep the children on the move. 

I don't doubt for a minute that Jill and Chimpy consider social services agencies to be the work of the Devil, trying to separate Godly parents like themselves from their children and forcing the kids into a life of sin and damnation.  I think isolation of the kids both to keep the kids ignorant of other lifestyles and to prevent outsiders from intervening in their brutal parenting methods is a big part of their family 'values'.  I think a whole lot of these fundies homeschool their kids for this reason, too.  Virtually the only contact the Rodriguii kids have with anyone outside their family is at other fundie churches and social events,, and then, only a few hours at a time and a different place every day.  No prolonged contact with anyone else.  They don't really know what they are missing.  

As for Nurie and fasting, I obviously don't have access to her weight and height; but I am fairly certain she is underweight.  In addition, she is being raised in an environment where 'perfection' as defined by her parents is expected of her, especially as the oldest.  She is a set-up for an eating disorder and is the last kid who should be praised for fasting.  To me, all the fasting that these deprived kids seem to be doing is just an indication of the amount of psychological damage that has been done to them.

Edited September 11, 2017 by doodlebug

[Arwen Evenstar]

Maybe Nurie is a more sincere Christian than her idiotic parents. I get that people will sometimes fast if they want to pray about an important or serious matter. Obviously, Nurie didn't expect her parents to broadcast this over SM.

Nurie is painfully thin already, so giving up her dinner was probably a big sacrifice for her to make. Chimpy was probably elated do he could have more food. That poor kid needs her nourishment.  Hopefully, a kind Fundy man will take her away from this nutter Famiky of hers.

[Fuzzysox]

I want to so scream all over Jill's FB page FEED YOUR CHILDREN!!!

[dreamingtree]

12 minutes ago, Fuzzysox said:

I want to so scream all over Jill's FB page FEED YOUR CHILDREN!!!

Go for it.  It is surprising and sad to me, that she doesn't have more people saying that.  Those kids don't look healthy

I don't get this whole 'mission/ministry' thing with them and the RV.  How in world is driving around in an RV and going to churches to preach the word, to people who already believe as you do accomplishing anything?  I mean if they drove their RV into troubled neighborhoods and preached, or brought food to the poor, etc.  But they are literally preaching to the choir, and also who do they think they are to preach to anyone?  Who is so arrogant that they think they have something to say, even though they have no education, no expertise and no skill for the topic at hand.  It just drives me crazy how there are people who just wake up one day and think they have what it takes to be a minister etc.  It reminds me of what Luke Wilson said about Reese Witherspoon'character in Legally Blonde  "Do you think she just woke up one day and decided to go to Harvard Law?"

[ariel]

I still don't get where they are getting the money for gas for the bus.  Those buses don't get very good mileage. Are they getting love donations from gas stations? 

Edited September 11, 2017 by ariel

[Sew Sumi]

1 hour ago, Fuzzysox said:

I want to so scream all over Jill's FB page FEED YOUR CHILDREN!!!

She blocks them. She only wants positive adulations. Jill and Jessa should trade sanctimonious bitch notes. 

Edited September 11, 2017 by Sew Sumi

[Temperance]

2 hours ago, Fuzzysox said:

I want to so scream all over Jill's FB page FEED YOUR CHILDREN!!!

Well this why I said I was hoping they would use the vow renewal to get gift cards for restaurants. It doesn't matter to me whether they got to the NICE one or the not nice one if they brought some of the kids. 

Someone should tell Jill R that at some point she will be too old to have more babies. Then she will want grandchildren, and probably want a lot of them. ( like JB and Michelle Duggar.) Being malnurished at young age sets up possible health problems and yes fertility problems (and pregnancy complications). 

Edited September 11, 2017 by Temperance

[riverblue22]

15 hours ago, dreamingtree said:

 

And, I readily confess that the Zuppa Toscana at my local OG makes my mouth water. 

 

That is the best soup, and the good thing is that there are recipes online and it's a great crockpot recipe.  No need to go to Olive Garden.

[Tabbygirl521]

19 hours ago, dreamingtree said:

So David R could be the Coconut Thief, and we could have 1 nut thieves, David Waller (aka Pecan Thief), and David R ( coconut thief

I wish someone would take THEIR nuts. 

[farmgal4]

They both idolize the Pearls, so that in itself tells me all I need to know about the scumbags.

[Celia Rubenstein]

I thought Christians would go on a fast to develop a better relationship with the lord ... it takes their eyes off worldly things and puts them in touch with their spirituality.  I didn't know it was part of a bargaining process with God - like saying "hey God ... I will skip 3 meals and you let my unborn baby sibling survive and ease up on Texas, okay?"  That is how Jill is making it sound.  

Also, her bragging about Nurie fasting completely flies in the face of the humble, personal nature of Christian fasting. The bible specifically says not to advertise that you are on a fast.  It is supposed to be between just you and God.  The reward is supposed to be developing a better relationship with the lord, not attention or acclaim for your sacrifice. 

[PradaKitty]

The Bates family just seems so much more likeable than the Duggars.  They all seem to be enjoying life and having fulfilling jobs.  They actually seem to all have a work ethic.   The Duggars just...exist. 

[lianau]

15 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

She blocks them. She only wants positive adulations. Jill and Jessa should trade sanctimonious bitch notes. 

maybe since she and her family are suffering and persecuted Christians, somebody should tell her that her kids won't even feed one measly lion .

[ChaChaSlide]

1 minute ago, PradaKitty said:

The Bates family just seems so much more likeable than the Duggars.  They all seem to be enjoying life and having fulfilling jobs.  They actually seem to all have a work ethic.   The Duggars just...exist. 

That's why they're so much worse. The Duggars let their freak flag fly, but the Bates are smart; they're very good at taking PR direction to make themselves come across as this sweet harmless southern family that just happen to have 19 kids and believe in an extremely restrictive patriarchal fundamentalist cult. ATI/IBLP can't be that bad if likeable folks like the Bates are into it, right? 

 

I remember the original Bates, the Bates they want you to forget. The using the ER as a "free" clinic Bates. The mom can't name all of her children in order of birth Bates. The dad on the ATI board and turned a blind eye to Bill Gothard sexually abusing girls Bates. The shameless pro-slavery support even though Kelly Jo has two black sisters Bates.

 

Glimmers of the old Bates still shine through today: the full court press for Zach to marry anybody but adopted Whitney (because Gothard says the adopted infant inherits the sins of the bio family) but when he married her anyways she suddenly dumps her adoptive parents to initiate contact with her biological parents, who abused and neglected her. Grandma Kelly Jo being so sweet with her grandbabies in a way she isn't with her children who are just a couple years older. The lack of support or even encouraging words for Michael and Brandon, because they can't double back from years of teaching that the larger the quiver, the more blessed you are, so their firstborn child battling infertility must be the opposite of blessed.

 

The Duggars poison is blatant and apparent to anyone with two eyes, even before Joshuapocolypse, but the Bates has done such a great job beautifying their poison that folks think their harmless and get sucked into their web. They're much more dangerous than the Duggars imo. 

[MargeGunderson]

The Puritans used to fast for thanksgiving, mercy, atonement, etc. Not exactly a model of success, that.

[Temperance]

34 minutes ago, ChaChaSlide said:

That's why they're so much worse. The Duggars let their freak flag fly, but the Bates are smart; they're very good at taking PR direction to make themselves come across as this sweet harmless southern family that just happen to have 19 kids and believe in an extremely restrictive patriarchal fundamentalist cult. ATI/IBLP can't be that bad if likeable folks like the Bates are into it, right? 

 

I remember the original Bates, the Bates they want you to forget. The using the ER as a "free" clinic Bates. The mom can't name all of her children in order of birth Bates. The dad on the ATI board and turned a blind eye to Bill Gothard sexually abusing girls Bates. The shameless pro-slavery support even though Kelly Jo has two black sisters Bates.

 

Glimmers of the old Bates still shine through today: the full court press for Zach to marry anybody but adopted Whitney (because Gothard says the adopted infant inherits the sins of the bio family) but when he married her anyways she suddenly dumps her adoptive parents to initiate contact with her biological parents, who abused and neglected her. Grandma Kelly Jo being so sweet with her grandbabies in a way she isn't with her children who are just a couple years older. The lack of support or even encouraging words for Michael and Brandon, because they can't double back from years of teaching that the larger the quiver, the more blessed you are, so their firstborn child battling infertility must be the opposite of blessed.

 

The Duggars poison is blatant and apparent to anyone with two eyes, even before Joshuapocolypse, but the Bates has done such a great job beautifying their poison that folks think their harmless and get sucked into their web. They're much more dangerous than the Duggars imo. 

Thank you for posting this! I've been thinking a lot about all of this. Everyone keeps saying the Bates are different, but it's some of them cut their hair and some of them don't. 

As for the highlighted section, I've been thinking about that. Not specifically Gothardism, but Libby Anne had several posts last week about Fundamentalism and the confederacy. A friend posted it on facebook and I felt it was worth reading.  I never heard of Nathan Bedford Forest before the Bates.

It's hard to say if the Duggars are much better, but some of their son-in-laws seem better informed about these issues. 

[Lunera]

Also Ben's family is trash. His mother was for the Muslim ban and his sister posted a picture of the confederate flag saying that it represents southern heritage not racism. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

10 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Also, her bragging about Nurie fasting completely flies in the face of the humble, personal nature of Christian fasting. The bible specifically says not to advertise that you are on a fast.  It is supposed to be between just you and God.  The reward is supposed to be developing a better relationship with the lord, not attention or acclaim for your sacrifice. 

Thank you. That's exactly the sentiment I was trying to communicate when JRod blathered that all over the interwebz, only you did a better job of communicating it.

@GeeGolly has found in you a most godly woman!

[Jynnan tonnix]

16 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

9aI thought Christians would go on a fast to develop a better relationship with the lord ... it takes their eyes off worldly things and puts them in touch with their spirituality.  I didn't know it was part of a bargaining process with God - like saying "hey God ... I will skip 3 meals and you let my unborn baby sibling survive and ease up on Texas, okay?"  That is how Jill is making it sound.  

Also, her bragging about Nurie fasting completely flies in the face of the humble, personal nature of Christian fasting. The bible specifically says not to advertise that you are on a fast.  It is supposed to be between just you and God.  The reward is supposed to be developing a better relationship with the lord, not attention or acclaim for your sacrifice. 

To be fair, Nurie hasn't said a word. Does she ever? For all we know, she might really be a humble person. Though,as someone mentioned, she (and all the kids, really) look like walking billboards for eating disorders. When you are that controlled to start with, are pressured to look a certain way, with slimness as a priority, and have the idea of fasting as a way to attain some sort of spiritual perfection piled on top of it, that's pretty much a perfect recipe for anorexia.

[ms.o]

On ‎9‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 2:28 AM, MunichNark said:

Right. Do cps have a website? I will do it. These kids need help

Each state has their own hotline number, but not every state will accept out-of-state hotlines. I don't know of any that actually let you hotline over a website though.   Unless the call is accepted and is actually assigned to a worker and who does the digging, then FB and pics will not be a part of the record.  It can be mentioned in the hotline call though.

Jill and Chimpy have no idea what it means to be humble.  Blows my mind

Edited September 12, 2017 by ms.o

[Celia Rubenstein]

4 hours ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

To be fair, Nurie hasn't said a word. Does she ever? For all we know, she might really be a humble person. 

Jill's bragging about Nurie is definitely all on Jill, I agree. But what Jill reports Nurie as saying about the reasons she is fasting are of concern all by themselves. 

According to Jill:

Quote

I had some scares with this pregnancy, so she was fasting for our baby to be WELL and she said she was also fasting for the people in Texas, devastated by so much loss from the hurricane. :(

Nurie's apparent belief that if she suffers it will be of benefit to others is straight-up martyrdom.  She is of course not responsible for her own religious education.  She may well have been taught that she can secure benefits for others with her suffering.  

But there is something about the way that having enough food is clearly an issue in this family coupled with the fact that Nurie's instrument of personal suffering is denying herself food that makes me wonder if her motives are as purely humble as they seem.

I can't really fault her for it.  I suspect she is not only starved for food, but also attention and praise. And for an identity independent of her family.  I'm certainly not saying I doubt her sincere concern for her unborn sibling or the people of Texas.  I actually feel a little bad questioning her motives, to be honest.  I would like to think she is simply acting on a questionable religious theory, improperly trying to secure some kind of quid-pro-quo deal with God.  But I don't know.

It actually still kind of feels like martyrdom even if helping Texans and Baby #13 is her motivation.  What would lead a girl her age to feel that her skipping a few meals would be of that much significance to God?  There is an arrogance in that. 

I realize I may not be very popular around here today for saying something a bit unkind about one of the poor Rodriguii kids.  Everyone knows how bad they have it. Perhaps if I note that the way those kids view their place in the universe and their relationship with God is the result of the doing and teaching of their parents, I will escape censure, lol.  But there are all kinds of questionable thinking going on with this fasting business that goes on in their family and I just do not have one good thing to say about ANY of it! 

[queenanne]

46 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Jill's bragging about Nurie is definitely all on Jill, I agree. But what Jill reports Nurie as saying about the reasons she is fasting are of concern all by themselves. 

According to Jill:

Nurie's apparent belief that if she suffers it will be of benefit to others is straight-up martyrdom.  She is of course not responsible for her own religious education.  She may well have been taught that she can secure benefits for others with her suffering.  

But there is something about the way that having enough food is clearly an issue in this family coupled with the fact that Nurie's instrument of personal suffering is denying herself food that makes me wonder if her motives are as purely humble as they seem.

I can't really fault her for it.  I suspect she is not only starved for food, but also attention and praise. And for an identity independent of her family.  I'm certainly not saying I doubt her sincere concern for her unborn sibling or the people of Texas.  I actually feel a little bad questioning her motives, to be honest.  I would like to think she is simply acting on a questionable religious theory, improperly trying to secure some kind of quid-pro-quo deal with God.  But I don't know.

It actually still kind of feels like martyrdom even if helping Texans and Baby #13 is her motivation.  What would lead a girl her age to feel that her skipping a few meals would be of that much significance to God?  There is an arrogance in that. 

I realize I may not be very popular around here today for saying something a bit unkind about one of the poor Rodriguii kids.  Everyone knows how bad they have it. Perhaps if I note that the way those kids view their place in the universe and their relationship with God is the result of the doing and teaching of their parents, I will escape censure, lol.  But there are all kinds of questionable thinking going on with this fasting business that goes on in their family and I just do not have one good thing to say about ANY of it! 

She's not fasting as a cover for anorexia, I guarantee it like I know my own name.  Some branches of pseudo Christian thought actually conflate fasting with a more intense form of prayer, probably because of that verse that twins them.  She's also clearly seen her mother praise her skeletal blond brother for fasting first.  

https://soundfaith.com/sermons/107866-the-power-of-prayer-with-fasting

Edited September 12, 2017 by queenanne

[kokapetl]

Just wear a hair shirt. 

[Celia Rubenstein]

30 minutes ago, queenanne said:

She's not fasting as a cover for anorexia, I guarantee it like I know my own name. 

I don't think it's likely any of the Rodriguii kids are anorexic.  I think they are simply malnourished.  There are just too many of them for their parents to feed adequately.

 

Quote

Some branches of pseudo Christian thought actually conflate fasting with a more intense form of prayer, probably because of that verse that twins them.

That is my understanding as well, yet the way Jill made it sound, it didn't come across like that.  Did she mention prayer or getting closer to God at all, or just that selfless little Nurie is going without food in order to keep God from inflicting another SEVERE miscarriage on her mother? 

Yeah, I'm sure God was sitting up there ready to pull the plug on Jill's pregnancy when one of the angels rushed in and told him to hold off, Nurie was skipping dinner!  And God was like, " oh, okay then! I was *this* close! "

 

Quote

She's also clearly seen her mother praise her skeletal blond brother for fasting first.  

I believe he is the one that Jill refers to as her problem child ... funny, he got so much praise for starving himself.  Apparently that is the way to get Mommy's attention in this family. 

9 minutes ago, Kokapetl said:

Just wear a hair shirt. 

Do they make hair shirts in Plexus pink? 

[bythelake]

On 9/10/2017 at 7:39 PM, Churchhoney said:

Nope. Not possible. Children grow up to be individuals who aspire to some form of independent adulthood. Unless something stops them. The most frequent thing that stops them is parents like this.

Note that these are devotees of the Pearls. That, by itself, proves that it's entirely about tyranny and control. They call it love, kindness and patience. But there have been psychopaths who've stored captives in basements while swearing that they were treating them with love, kindness and patience. 

Then we have stuff like this, from survivors of this kind of a homeschooling world -- which is way more widespread among psychologically warped, power-hungry adults who happily cover their creepiness with claims to be godly than most can even imagine, I expect. 

https://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2015/12/14/the-battle-of-peer-dependency-part-1/

So let’s create a problem, then see the entire world through this problem, write some stuff that sounds a little like legit psychology to those who know nothing about psychology, and then write a book on how you overcame this salvation-threatening problem and saved the souls of your children. Mother as the martyr-savior. This is starting to sound all-too familiar.

“Some may think that being peer dependent is not such a bad thing….however, Scripture is clear that it is a very big deal to God. In fact, if is God’s desire for the father to have his children’s hearts, because in the last days, if they don’t, He will smite the earth with a curse.”

The above quote is really important if you want to understand the undercurrent of the homeschool movement.

Gothard and other homeschool leaders loved the scripture in Malachi 4:6 that said “And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.” And upon this verse they built their cults. This verse was used to promote everything from Vision Forum’s “Biblical Patriarchy” and Family Integrated Churches to the pet doctrines of homeschooling and was very likely part of the foundation for the entire homeschooling movement in the 80’s and 90’s. Homeschooling was supposed to turn the father’s hearts toward their children and vice versa. We were told that this was the only way to promote God’s Kingdom on earth, that this was God’s will for families, that it would be the only way to have a strong nation. This verse was used to justify all kind of cult-like family practices, including not allowing peer friendships and individual social lives, as you see throughout Sears’ book.

In reality, it was about control.

“Another factor involved when a father does not have his child’s heart is the principle that whoever has the heart of your child controls him.”

That’s about the most honest statement I’ve seen in any of these books on “keeping your child’s heart”.

“Peer dependency is the loss of your child’s heart. Dressing, talking, and having the same morals is just the beginning. When a father has lost the heart of his child, the child is torn between the direction and wishes of his parents and that of his friends. In the beginning, he may still desire to please his parents. As time goes on, however, the family will experience great turmoil as the peer dependent young persona grows deeper into dependency and rebellion. People who are peer dependent will find themselves beginning to lower the standards that their parents have tried to instill in them. Even young people who have grown up in very godly homes will suffer the consequences and bondage of peer dependency.”

Please tell me that others can see what is happening here, what is actually being said. “Peer dependency is the loss of your child’s heart” and your control over him, per this author. This reads like a manual of how to isolate your kids and ensure that they will never be exposed to anything other than your own teachings; that they will never learn to think for themselves; that they will never question you and your rules.

These are instructions on how to control your children and to rid them of free will and ensure they turn out to be the people you decide they will be.

This is the goal, very clearly stated, of the homechooling movement that I and my friends grew up in. We were raised in cults, even those of us who weren’t part of ATI or Vision Forum or other organized groups. Our families became cults and operated at such. Complete with ultimate authoritarian control, emotional abuse, religious manipulation, isolation from outside influences, censorship, physical abuse, and absolutely no accountability to anyone else. Our parents were taught that this was how to have a strong family and this was how to ensure their kids turned into the robots we were meant to be.

The author goes on to use all the right catch-phrases: “they want to be like the world instead of like Christ; a quest for pleasure, materialism, and self-gratification; comfortable with the things of the world; children and young people act differently when they are with their peers than they do with adults; some Christian groups have outward evidence of the Christian life, but they are inwardly peer dependent.” On and on and on she goes, setting up this danger, this battle, this threat to families and children. THINK OF THE CHILDREN.

“The particular child who was deeply involved in peer dependency was in complete turmoil in his soul. He would argue and fight against the direction of our family but be repentant at night over his bad attitude and hurtful actions. [He] was in such turmoil that he made the whole family miserable.” [emphasis mine]

Raise your hand if, like me, you were told that your stubbornness and rebellion was making your entire family miserable. If you were told that “if you would just submit to God’s will for our family and stop questioning and being ornery and rebellious, then we wouldn’t be having so many problems.”

Raise your hand if your parents followed teachings that made you, in all practicality, the scapegoat.

Dysfunctional doesn’t even begin to describe the consequences of being raised with such toxic teachings. Try for a minute to imagine being a 14-yr-old, struggling with suicidal imaginations, thinking everyone hates you, even God, that you are worthless because that’s what your parents and their religion taught you, stuck in the turmoil that is puberty, and being told that your family’s problems are because you are making everyone miserable by not submitting. Because that was my life at 14.

“For 5 years I didn’t understand that the reason he didn’t want to go in the direction that God was pointing our family was because he had decided in his heart that he wanted to go in the direction of his friends. So I approached my child and asked him, ‘Do I have your heart?’ “

A bit of advice: don’t ask your child that. There is no way to ask that without manipulation and heaping guilt on a child’s head. I knew I supposed to say yes, that that was what God wanted for me. I also knew that my heart was not at all safe with my mother, that I needed to protect myself. But when an influential adult comes to you, the child, crying that she doesn’t have your heart, that you don’t trust her, that all she ever wanted was to have your heart and a relationship with you, that this is what God wants and don’t you want what God wants….what the hell are you supposed to say?! I said what I thought I was supposed to. “Yes, of course, Mom.” It was a lie, and I knew it was a lie, but a 14-yr-old doesn’t have the tools to combat religious and emotional manipulation. A 14-yr-old just wants to make it stop.

Next in Part 2, with the problem clearly defined and laid out, we will get to the good part: what to do about it. Spoiler Alert: It’s all terrible advice.

And so on. 

So 19 beautiful lives have been ruined by their narcissistic father who looks upon himself as the king of the hill. He preaches the gospel of fear until every one of them is afraid to do anything. Instead of encouraging, and nourishing their aspirations, he has continually emotionally beat them down and brainwashed them. Instead of independent adults, he and his adoring wife have raised a passel of ignorant, dull, lazy and emotionally stunted adults. He tells them that they don't need friends, and they swallow all the crap he feeds them. He does not want them to leave and cleave. He's got them right where he wants them, under his thumb. It's very sad to think what they could have become.

[Westiepeach]

1 hour ago, bythelake said:

So 19 beautiful lives have been ruined by their narcissistic father who looks upon himself as the king of the hill. He preaches the gospel of fear until every one of them is afraid to do anything. Instead of encouraging, and nourishing their aspirations, he has continually emotionally beat them down and brainwashed them. Instead of independent adults, he and his adoring wife have raised a passel of ignorant, dull, lazy and emotionally stunted adults. He tells them that they don't need friends, and they swallow all the crap he feeds them. He does not want them to leave and cleave. He's got them right where he wants them, under his thumb. It's very sad to think what they could have become.

Word.

[RedBaron]

On 9/11/2017 at 8:38 AM, PradaKitty said:

The Bates family just seems so much more likeable than the Duggars.  They all seem to be enjoying life and having fulfilling jobs.  They actually seem to all have a work ethic.   The Duggars just...exist. 

Totally agree with this.  The Bates parents actually encourage the kids to go to college (even if it is Clown College ) and there is so much more joy and genuine affection in that family.  The Duggars are too cult like and they all seem dead inside except for maybe Jinger.

Edited September 13, 2017 by RedBaron

[GeeGolly]

I agree the Bates try to paint a prettier picture, however I believe they're giving their kids, more importantly their daughters, a better chance at life. I also believe their children are loved. I do feel that Kelly woke up a little to how their life style was limiting her children and adapted their ways a bit.

Gil was and still is, fully involved with Gothard - there is no excuse for that.

[MunichNark]

If you are feeling nauseous but can't seem to recycle that food, or if you feel particularly debonair and in want of some entertainment, then check out the latest Jilly post with her kissing photos.

Warning - you CANNOT unsee this one.

[louannems]

So gross to post that!  Jill has lost more weight even though she's pregnant.  And David comes home with expensive yellow roses and treats and a movie for "them", meaning, of course, not for the huge brood of drooling kids looking on. 

[doodlebug]

22 minutes ago, louannems said:

So gross to post that!  Jill has lost more weight even though she's pregnant.  And David comes home with expensive yellow roses and treats and a movie for "them", meaning, of course, not for the huge brood of drooling kids looking on. 

Well, Jill has repeatedly told us that she is a mommy martyr who suffers severely with morning sickness when she's pregnant.  Of course, it won't keep her from hoarding all the snacks David bought just for them to eat after the kids went to bed.  They really are the worst sort of human beings.