Sweet Fellowship: Duggars and Friends (aka the Bates Family and Other Featured Families Thread)

[Churchhoney]

As far as I can tell, the Gothard cult and all other very repressive traditions, including not just cults but repressive societies and families, actively discourage any and all "real conversation" between any two people and in any and all situations.

The habit inculcated from the beginning is to swallow what you've been given from on high, repeatedly regurgitate it and follow its commands....while refraining entirely from recognizing or acknowledging any of your own honest feelings and perceptions -- and as much as possible stop yourself from even acknowledging that your mind generates such things....and refraining from formulating any honest or analytical thoughts of any kind.

Since you're literally ordered not to have honest thoughts and feelings and perceptions of your own, of course you're also vigorously restrained from exchanging your thoughts and feeling with anybody else....Restrained by rules that outsiders find odd and scratch their heads over.

Repressive religions, societies and families exist for the people who rule them. Allowing anything honest to bubble up in the brains of the ruled opens the door a crack to potential revolution. And allowing the ruled to exchange ideas and responses with others flings that door wide open. 

The entire point of most of the rules and restrictions is to keep that from happening. 

We keep talking as if these people as individuals matter in some way to their parents and whoever their cult leaders are, if they're in cults. But in fact -- just as with the Duggars and their 19! 19! 19! 19! 19! kids and 200! 200! 200! GRANDBABIES!!!! --- the people matter only when the rulers tot them up so they can brag to themselves (and sometimes to others) about how many people are in THEIR thrall. 

Until the empire's hold weakens, nobody in these crowds of peons will ever be allowed longer courtship periods.

Luckily, though, while religious cults and dictatorial governments can last for centuries, these individual family cults don't usually have that kind of staying power.

The traditions weaken when there's no longer anybody who grasps the real personal benefits to him or her of maintaining them (not the "God wants you to do this!" phony "benefits" they lie about to the children)....or when there's no longer anybody who controls the food supplies of enough of the group to enforce it. So probably a fair number of the grandchildren of these original jerks will be able to go on dates and have actual conversations. And so on....

Edited January 23, 2019 by Churchhoney

[Lisa418722]

1 hour ago, Barb23 said:

I read this thought on another Duggar site.  The poster was commenting on the preparation of Carlin Bates engagement to Evan.  Evan was shown getting help and ideas of what Carlin would like from Erin & Kelly on the Bates show. The poster made a good point that if Evan would have known Carlin longer & better, he would have known her likes & dislikes & wouldn't have had to depend so much on Erin & Kelly to get that info. (I didn't see the episode so not sure how much info they gave him.)

It's not just Carlin & Evan either. This thought applies to most, if not all, of the couples who have the 3 month courtship followed by the 3 month engagement.  I was thinking something along the same lines that depending on how the total 6 month courting & engagement falls on the calendar,  they may not even have celebrated their birthdays together before getting married.  Good grief.   Maybe this is why  they have to have date nights after they marry - to get to talk & learn about one another privately. 

I read an article by some Christian writer (I don't remember who it was) a few years ago and they were talking about the difference in Marrying to Date or Dating to Marry.  Most of us are more likely to date to marry; you get the know the person before marriage. Have birthdays, go through all the seasons of the year (no, I'm not adding "of life" to that sentence).  When you Marry to Date, you just want to hurry up and married, have sex, spend time alone, whatever, but then you don't know what kind of person you married because you didn't spend a birthday, or go to a funeral, or a trip with them.  These families push getting married so much, I always wonder how much do the brides and grooms know about themselves, much less the person they marry.

[Normades]

10 minutes ago, Lisa418722 said:

I read an article by some Christian writer (I don't remember who it was) a few years ago and they were talking about the difference in Marrying to Date or Dating to Marry.  Most of us are more likely to date to marry; you get the know the person before marriage. Have birthdays, go through all the seasons of the year (no, I'm not adding "of life" to that sentence).  When you Marry to Date, you just want to hurry up and married, have sex, spend time alone, whatever, but then you don't know what kind of person you married because you didn't spend a birthday, or go to a funeral, or a trip with them.  These families push getting married so much, I always wonder how much do the brides and grooms know about themselves, much less the person they marry.

They act like they're doing these kids a favor by keeping pieces of their heart and other such BS, but in reality it's just more control.  Years ago I worked with a girl who was about 20 who was raised a JW.  They were very strict about purity, etc.  This girl just wanted to kiss a boy and have a little fun, but she ended up marrying the first idiot who asked to fulfill her needs.  Sadly, this guy was abusive.  Poor thing started showing up at work with black eyes and bruises!!  If only she had been allowed to really date and maybe even engage in some physical affection, she may not have ended up with this garbage just so she could finally have sex.  Human beings have needs!!  Of course, these people think women don't have any needs or desires at all.  This purity culture is so damaging to women.  

[floridamom]

It's their definition of purity that's the problem, I think.

[queenanne]

5 hours ago, Lisa418722 said:

I read an article by some Christian writer (I don't remember who it was) a few years ago and they were talking about the difference in Marrying to Date or Dating to Marry.  Most of us are more likely to date to marry; you get the know the person before marriage. Have birthdays, go through all the seasons of the year (no, I'm not adding "of life" to that sentence).  When you Marry to Date, you just want to hurry up and married, have sex, spend time alone, whatever, but then you don't know what kind of person you married because you didn't spend a birthday, or go to a funeral, or a trip with them.  These families push getting married so much, I always wonder how much do the brides and grooms know about themselves, much less the person they marry.

The quote I always liked was "never get married to someone until you've seen them through at least one bad head cold."

[Lunera]

New info about Caleb Williams. He impregnated a minor.

It sucks they keep bringing Jana into this.

https://radaronline.com/exclusives/2018/12/jana-duggar-ex-boyfriend-caleb-williams-mughost-sexual-abuse-arrest/

 

"The alleged victim’s mother said in a statement that her daughter “was feeling terrible for two weeks and we ended up taking her into the ER in Lincoln to make sure it wasn’t her gall bladder,” Radar reports. “Come to find out [the alleged victim] was pregnant. She told me she had been having sex with Williams since she was 14 and he was 21,” the statement reads."

https://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/caleb-williams-accused-of-getting-alleged-assault-victim-pregnant/

[BitterApple]

Jesus God Almighty. What a scumbag. 

[Absolom]

1 hour ago, Lunera said:

It sucks they keep bringing Jana into this.

Especially since they were pushing the original rumor about Jana with him.  They're sick just trying to get clicks.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Absolom

[Jynnan tonnix]

58 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Especially since they were pushing the original rumor about Jana with him.  They're sick just trying to get clicks.

With dicks.

Unfortunately, the lowest common denominator when it comes to this sort of "journalism".

[queenanne]

He's repulsive. That poor child...

[Albanyguy]

1 hour ago, queenanne said:

He's repulsive. That poor child...

And unfortunately, she will probably bear the full burden of blame within their community: she defrauded him, she tempted him, she led him into Satan's snare, yadda, yadda, yadda. Meanwhile he (or more likely a family member acting as his spokesman) will announce that Jesus has forgiven him and therefore no one else has the right to condemn or criticize him.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Albanyguy

[BitterApple]

3 minutes ago, Albanyguy said:

And unfortunately, she will probably bear the full burden of blame within their community: she defrauded him, she tempted him, she led him into Saran's snare, yadda, yadda, yadda. Meanwhile he will announce that Jesus has forgiven him and therefore no one else has the right to condemn or criticize him.

I wonder what happened with the baby? These people don't believe in abortion, so I wonder if the girl kept it or placed it for adoption. Given the culture of victim-shaming, I imagine it would be hard to raise a child a) as a single teen mother and b) as the product of rape.

[Ohiopirate02]

47 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I wonder what happened with the baby? These people don't believe in abortion, so I wonder if the girl kept it or placed it for adoption. Given the culture of victim-shaming, I imagine it would be hard to raise a child a) as a single teen mother and b) as the product of rape.

I hope her parents don't encourage her to marry him.  I don't know what state they live in,  but many states allow 14 year olds to marry with parental permission.   

[Scarlett45]

4 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I hope her parents don't encourage her to marry him.  I don't know what state they live in,  but many states allow 14 year olds to marry with parental permission.   

I don’t think the girl is 14, she is likely 16 or 17 now. She said she was 14 when the rapes began, and he was 21. He is now 23, so depending on bdays she’s 2yrs older as well. 

But I can see her parents encouraging marriage, and him using that to enter a plea deal “look my victim loves me!! Don’t throw me in jail.”

[Temperance]

I doubt her parents would want her to marry him. If marriage is what they wanted, I doubt they would have pressed charges and the case would have gotten as far as it has. We don't know that that the parents are as fundie as the Duggars; a lot of people flirt with joining cults or they could go to a more ordinary church and know Caleb from there. Jill R, for example, is very, very fundie, but seems to go to a more mainstream church in WV judging from pictures and things that have been said. 

Edited January 26, 2019 by Temperance

[Scarlett45]

27 minutes ago, Temperance said:

I doubt her parents would want her to marry him. If marriage is what they wanted, I doubt they would have pressed charges and the case would have gotten as far as it has. We don't know that that the parents are as fundie as the Duggars; a lot of people flirt with joining cults or they could go to a more ordinary church and know Caleb from there. Jill R, for example, is very, very fundie, but seems to go to a more mainstream church in WV judging from pictures and things that have been said. 

It could be that a mandated reporter reported the crime when she gave birth. But yes that makes sense. 

[Temperance]

14 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

It could be that a mandated reporter reported the crime when she gave birth. But yes that makes sense. 

It could be you're right, but the InTouch article makes that seem unlikely. It actually says the mother of the victim went and filed several restraining order against Caleb Williams to stay away from her child. It seems the mother doesn't want to cover for Caleb. 

If they had tried to cover for Caleb, it seems likely that the daughter would have revised her story so that abuse didn't start so young. It happened over several years and she could revised the statement to say it started around the time she got pregnant.

[Scarlett45]

3 minutes ago, Temperance said:

It could be you're right, but the InTouch article makes that seem unlikely. It actually says the mother of the victim went and filed several restraining order against Caleb Williams to stay away from her child. It seems the mother doesn't want to cover for Caleb. 

If they had tried to cover for Caleb, it seems likely that the daughter would have revised her story so that abuse didn't start so young. It happened over several years and she could revised the statement to say it started around the time she got pregnant.

Ah I didn’t know that. Good this girl’s parents are protecting her from that scumbag. 

[Lunera]

4 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I wonder what happened with the baby? These people don't believe in abortion, so I wonder if the girl kept it or placed it for adoption. Given the culture of victim-shaming, I imagine it would be hard to raise a child a) as a single teen mother and b) as the product of rape.

She might still be pregnant, her mother filed the protection order in July. He wasn't arrested until November. I'm actually surprised the mother filed charges and didn't force the girl to marry him.

I saw a documentary about child marriages in the US and a lot of them started out this way. Pregnant teen girls forced to marry their long time abusers to avoid shame on the family.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Lunera

[Scarlett45]

7 minutes ago, Lunera said:

She might still be pregnant, her mother filed the protection order in July. He wasn't arrested until November. I'm actually surprised the mother filed charges and didn't force the girl to marry him.

I saw a documentary about child marriages in the US and a lot of them started out this way. Pregnant teen girls forced to marry their long time abusers to avoid shame on the family.

He might not have been arrested until the baby was born and the dna test was solid evidence of his crime. 

[galaxychaser]

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

He might not have been arrested until the baby was born and the dna test was solid evidence of his crime. 

Like the nurse who raped the girl in a coma.

[Scarlett45]

5 minutes ago, galaxychaser said:

Like the nurse who raped the girl in a coma.

Yes. My Sib Group is enraged about this story and we are following it. 

 

But i do wonder why are these rapists SO STUPID as to not use a condom in a world where we have dna tests. Do they WANT to get caught after she gives birth?!!

[galaxychaser]

4 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Yes. My Sib Group is enraged about this story and we are following it. 

 

But i do wonder why are these rapists SO STUPID as to not use a condom in a world where we have dna tests. Do they WANT to get caught after she gives birth?!!

I was thinking the same thing. And the guy is also a Christian rapper, married, 4 kids... 

Maybe he thought she couldn’t get pregnant? 

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, galaxychaser said:

I was thinking the same thing. And the guy is also a Christian rapper, married, 4 kids... 

Maybe he thought she couldn’t get pregnant? 

Taking this to small talk. 

[ChiCricket]

On 1/25/2019 at 7:06 PM, BitterApple said:

Jesus God Almighty. What a scumbag. 

OT, but I just recently read that the word scumbag was originally a slang term for a condom. (that's all I can think of when I see the word now) 😂

Edited January 27, 2019 by ChiCricket

[Catfin]

I want to know if Timmy made it back to Spokane for Moody airplane school.

[louannems]

14 minutes ago, Catfin said:

I want to know if Timmy made it back to Spokane for Moody airplane school.

He did- he flew back alone, without the whole Rod ensemble.  Shortly after returning, JillR post that Timothy and her had a three hour talk by phone.  Ridiculous!  That poor boy works and attends classes and doesn't he need to study, eat and sleep?

[PikaScrewChu]

I've been MIA on Bateseseseses stuff. Have they explained why Carlin and Zoolander are waiting so long to get married? Meanwhile Tori and Bobby had to get married ASAP.

I thought Carlin would have been stomping down the aisle as fast as she humanly could.

[Sew Sumi]

I'm pretty sure that Carlin said that she wants a spring wedding. 

[Absolom]

The longer the engagement, the more attention she gets.

[galaxychaser]

2 hours ago, louannems said:

He did- he flew back alone, without the whole Rod ensemble.  Shortly after returning, JillR post that Timothy and her had a three hour talk by phone.  Ridiculous!  That poor boy works and attends classes and doesn't he need to study, eat and sleep?

ALL he needs IS mommas LOVE to live nothing ELSE matters!

[Sew Sumi]

2 minutes ago, galaxychaser said:

ALL he needs IS mommas LOVE to live nothing ELSE matters!

Jill, is that you? 😂

[galaxychaser]

no this IS not JILL lol

[Catfin]

Thanks @louannems . Hope he stays there through the summer maintaining distance and gaining perspective. 

[awaken]

4 hours ago, louannems said:

He did- he flew back alone, without the whole Rod ensemble.  Shortly after returning, JillR post that Timothy and her had a three hour talk by phone.  Ridiculous!  That poor boy works and attends classes and doesn't he need to study, eat and sleep?

Omg, what on earth could they possibly talk about for three hours, esp when they just saw each other?  

[Ohiopirate02]

25 minutes ago, awaken said:

Omg, what on earth could they possibly talk about for three hours, esp when they just saw each other?  

Im sure Tim got a word or two in every half hour or so.  Jill probably had to fill Tim on her every waking hour since he has left.

[doodlebug]

4 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Im sure Tim got a word or two in every half hour or so.  Jill probably had to fill Tim on her every waking hour since he has left.

I have a feeling it was 3 hours of Tim telling Jill what an amazing mother she is, how beautiful, how godly with Jill intermittently encouraging him to keep the compliments coming.

[PikaScrewChu]

2 hours ago, Absolom said:

The longer the engagement, the more attention she gets.

I saw that Carlin is having a wedding with very sinful dancing. I'm betting she's trying to out-do her sisters at this point, it's kind of hard to throw something really over the top in 3 months. I fully expect this wedding to have EVERYTHING.

[drafan]

On 1/26/2019 at 10:47 AM, BitterApple said:

I wonder what happened with the baby? These people don't believe in abortion, so I wonder if the girl kept it or placed it for adoption.

Wouldn't this be the time for Jessa and Ben to make their move?....didn't they tease in THs about adopting slews of kids?

Oh yeah, right. Just like all the twins she's given birth to.....

[Sew Sumi]

2 hours ago, PikaScrewChu said:

I saw that Carlin is having a wedding with very sinful dancing. I'm betting she's trying to out-do her sisters at this point, it's kind of hard to throw something really over the top in 3 months. I fully expect this wedding to have EVERYTHING.

Actually, Carlin wanted the dancing for the engagement. There was a scene with Evan's mother teaching him. I doubt there will be dancing at the actual reception. 

[galaxychaser]

8 hours ago, awaken said:

Omg, what on earth could they possibly talk about for three hours, esp when they just saw each other?  

Jesus, loose girls and mama.

[GeeGolly]

8 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Actually, Carlin wanted the dancing for the engagement. There was a scene with Evan's mother teaching him. I doubt there will be dancing at the actual reception. 

I recently saw a post from Carlin, she's planning a father/daughter dance at her wedding reception.

[Sew Sumi]

8 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I recently saw a post from Carlin, she's planning a father/daughter dance at her wedding reception.

Oh, I missed that! But that still doesn't explain Evan getting dancing lessons from his Mama.

[Temperance]

Chelsy Bontrager Maxwell had the baby on Saturday. It's a boy and his name is Axton John Maxwell. She was planning on a homebirth, but ended up needing a hospital. After all these fundies, I would never plan on a homebirth, things seem to go wrong too easily. Chelsy was 26 when she got married and will turn 28 tomorrow. (She shares a birthday with a close friend.)

[galaxychaser]

Axton Maxwell doesn’t sound good at all. 

Congrats to them !

[Temperance]

Chelsy had posted the birth announcement on her own blog. She described the birth as "traumatic" and said she had labor for 24 hours at home.  She then went to a hospital. Today in Sarah's write up, when Chelsy told the family how her labor went she kept sweet, and was grateful she didn't need a c-section. I'm grateful someone in the comments pointed c-sections can save lives. Of course  both the Maxwells and Bontagers are fully quiverfull.

Someone pointed out on FJ that Steve apparently loves meaningful names with strong Christian or biblical connections. Chelsy and John just picked Axton, because they liked it. 

[GeeGolly]

Read the name and instantly thought, Bang, bang Maxwell's silver hammer Axe came down upon her head.

[queenanne]

On 1/28/2019 at 3:23 PM, galaxychaser said:

Axton Maxwell doesn’t sound good at all. 

Congrats to them !

Yeah, Anton would have been better but too late now, I suppose!

[Portia]

6 minutes ago, queenanne said:

Yeah, Anton would have been better but too late now, I suppose!

As in Anton LaVey, founder of the Church of Satan? I think not!  haha

[PradaKitty]

That’s what I thought of right away!