Michelle and JimBob aka J'Chelle and Boob

[Salacious Kitty]

11 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I go back and forth on whether JB knew his friend CSA or not. The odds out of all the cops on the force at the time he took Josh to one who was into CSA. It's entirely possible he didn't know. But JB has surrounded him by so many terrible people. Josh tried to blame it on a friend and employee who sexually assulted a minor, the head of their organization sexually harassed women and minors, which no one cared about until he became a liability, Jill's incompetent midwife Theresa who lost her license because a baby died, I can't remember if it was her or another incompetent midwife's husband was an addict or something else. Erin Bates' sister-in-law was arranged to marry a convicted rapist, I'm probably forgetting others. But there's been a lot of shady people around the family so did he really not know about his friend?

It was Teresa's husband who was the pill addict. He lost his medical license because of it. The Fedoskys were tight with JB/Meech. 

But I was thinking the same thing today. JB surrounds himself with sketchy yes men. 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Salacious Kitty

[MsJamieDornan]

1 hour ago, Salacious Kitty said:

JB surrounds himself with sketchy yes men. 

Who else would want to be around him?

[AstridM]

7 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

It was Teresa's husband who was the pill addict. He list his medical license because of it. The Fedoskys were tight with JB/Meech. 

But I was thinking the same thing today. JB surrounds himself with sketchy yes men. 

What about the guy who married Bin and Jessa ? Didn’t he also get accused of something creepy?

[GeeGolly]

42 minutes ago, AstridM said:

What about the guy who married Bin and Jessa ? Didn’t he also get accused of something creepy?

It seems everyone in the Duggar circle is involved in some kind of scandal, big or small, including the Holts and IIRC the guy who wrote some money budget book.

Like attracts like.

[BetyBee]

I think IBLP attracts weak men who need to feel powerful over women and children. They are not healthy minded people.

[Scarlett45]

24 minutes ago, BetyBee said:

I think IBLP attracts weak men who need to feel powerful over women and children. They are not healthy minded people.

That’s what I was thinking. 

[Salacious Kitty]

4 hours ago, AstridM said:

What about the guy who married Bin and Jessa ? Didn’t he also get accused of something creepy?

No, it was the SOS missionary guy (name forgotten, Mike Schadt?) who married Ben and Jessa. Of course, we saw how sketchy his operation was when Jill and Derick went down to work for him.

Edited September 13, 2023 by Salacious Kitty
I think I remembered his name

[ginger90]

4 hours ago, AstridM said:

What about the guy who married Bin and Jessa ? Didn’t he also get accused of something creepy?

Mike Schadt, his stepsister accused him and two of her brothers of sexually molesting her as a child. No clue what came of that.

[BetyBee]

1 hour ago, ginger90 said:

Mike Schadt, his stepsister accused him and two of her brothers of sexually molesting her as a child. No clue what came of that.

Women and children are at such risk in these IBLP homes. It makes me so angry that these people think they are these great Christians!

[Jeeves]

I'm putting this here because it's about JB in general, not limited to Jill. We know that he did Jill a bad turn re taxes and money, and I think he did it to all the kids, so it's more about him than about Jill. The deets about Jill are discussed in the Jill/Derick topic.

I have now found a few clues in Jill's book, that support my belief that JB pulled the same tax trick on all the kids as he did with Jill, i.e., through the CPA, filing income tax returns showing the individual had received $X income, which was never actually paid to that person.

After much dispute and unpleasantness from JB, Jill and Derick finally got a copy of the contract documents that she had signed the day before her wedding. She said this, mentioning what the "Compensation" section of the contract contained:

Quote

It stated that for each half hour episode, Mad Family Inc. would be paid $50,000, and for each one-hour episode $65,000, with the numbers rising to $58,000 and $73,000 if the show hit a fourth season.

Pops later determined somehow that each child would receive 3 percent on their tax return each year. However, even this was a phantom payment, seemingly just reported on paper for tax purposes with no apparent intention to actually pay out this amount. We would later be told that this previously reported income was an investment or inheritance that we could only have access to upon my parents’ death.

    --Duggar, Jill. Counting the Cost (pp. 225-226). Gallery Books. Kindle Edition.

Also, she quoted JB's nasty itemization of what he'd spent on Jill, that he sent them when they were pushing to get copies of the contract and other relevant documents. I found it so distasteful that I skimmed it. But I read it again. Someone has posted a screenshot of it, either in the Jill/Derick topic or the TLC/media one, I don't remember, sorry.

Before he lays out the numbers, JB says:

Quote

Yes, we allotted, at different times, amounts to our children, for tax purposes, because each one of our children were benefiting from having all of their needs met (food, clothing, shelter, utilities, music lessons, education, travel, instruments, vehicles, phones, medical insurance, medical bills, etc.).

    --Duggar, Jill. Counting the Cost (p. 218). Gallery Books. Kindle Edition. 

He's such an arse. I don't care how long and loud he hollers "Jesus!!" He truly worships money and power.

[ozziemom]

9 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

I'm putting this here because it's about JB in general, not limited to Jill. We know that he did Jill a bad turn re taxes and money, and I think he did it to all the kids, so it's more about him than about Jill. The deets about Jill are discussed in the Jill/Derick topic.

I have now found a few clues in Jill's book, that support my belief that JB pulled the same tax trick on all the kids as he did with Jill, i.e., through the CPA, filing income tax returns showing the individual had received $X income, which was never actually paid to that person.

After much dispute and unpleasantness from JB, Jill and Derick finally got a copy of the contract documents that she had signed the day before her wedding. She said this, mentioning what the "Compensation" section of the contract contained:

Also, she quoted JB's nasty itemization of what he'd spent on Jill, that he sent them when they were pushing to get copies of the contract and other relevant documents. I found it so distasteful that I skimmed it. But I read it again. Someone has posted a screenshot of it, either in the Jill/Derick topic or the TLC/media one, I don't remember, sorry.

Before he lays out the numbers, JB says:

He's such an arse. I don't care how long and loud he hollers "Jesus!!" He truly worships money and power.

This confirms what many of us speculated was the reason for all the LLC’s. Moving income around but no cash ever went to anyone but JBoob. Very shifty CPA to assist/facilitate and my guess is tax returns were signed by kids who had no clue. Except to bow down to the patriarch without question. Disgusting. The CPA should be reported to the IRS and state licensing board (not sure what it’s called in Arkansas)

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, ozziemom said:

This confirms what many of us speculated was the reason for all the LLC’s. Moving income around but no cash ever went to anyone but JBoob. Very shifty CPA to assist/facilitate and my guess is tax returns were signed by kids who had no clue. Except to bow down to the patriarch without question. Disgusting. The CPA should be reported to the IRS and state licensing board (not sure what it’s called in Arkansas)

I wish the IRS would also investigate JB but that will probably never happen.

[CalicoKitty]

If I were one of JB's kids still dependent on him for my job and shelter (what a horrible thought), I think I would really start to worry.  The gravy train may be stopping soon, especially if the IRS should decide to look into things.  We're talking taxes of 19 people knowingly being filed incorrectly for years.  No education, no savings, no income except that which is provided by JB (if you toe the line), and possible questions from the IRS.  Even the sons in real estate and construction still have daddy's involvement. What a mess JB has created for his children just to amass property and money.

[satrunrose]

Good lord, Jana could very possibly have 15 years of fraudulent tax filings lurking behind her. On the other hand, if the empire folds, it's only Jill and Derrick, Jinger and Jeremy, Joy and Austin and Justin and Claire who aren't totally screwed, right? Are there any other kids who don't work for Daddy, at least indirectly?

Edited September 15, 2023 by satrunrose

[Jeeves]

Is it any wonder that JB went ballistic when Jill and Derick started pushing for not only the contract documents with TLC but the Mad Family Inc. corporate records, including board of directors' meeting minutes? 

I'm not saying he broke any laws, but it appears the money and tax filings went something like this:

• TLC paid Mad Family, Inc. fees for the show
• Mad Family Inc. reported that it paid specific amounts to each member of the Duggar family, including the kids
• JB's CPA filed tax returns for each kid stating as income the amount of income that Mad Family had paid the kid.
• Except - the kid hadn't actually received any of that money.

Something we don't know: if taxes were due on a kid's reported income per their Form 1040, was it paid? I think it must have been. You don't file a return with the IRS showing income and then fail to pay the tax due on that income. I assume JB must have paid those taxes, probably from Mad Family Inc.'s funds. 

Another thing we don't know: how the income was reported. Earned income, which would trigger FICA taxes? Other income which might not trigger FICA? 

Were the kids "employees" of Mad Family, Inc.? Or independent contractors?

I mean, TBH I know JB has pulled a lot of fancy financial maneuvers, and I don't give f*ck about the details. But I'm finding it darkly amusing that Mr. Bigshot in IBLP, a follower of Bill Gothard whose mantra was "children are a blessing," probably treated his children as independent contractors.

[Natalie68]

On 9/12/2023 at 12:26 PM, Salacious Kitty said:

AFAIK, he was a buddy of JB's. I guess JB felt the guy would give FF a stern IBLP talking to. Coming from someone not directly involved with their insular church might have more of an impact than being talked to by Jim Holt. 

Of course, that guy had his own dirty secrets. 

Wonder if JB and this cop have some things in common.  I have never believed Josh was born a sick mofo.

[Natalie68]

4 hours ago, Jeeves said:

I'm putting this here because it's about JB in general, not limited to Jill. We know that he did Jill a bad turn re taxes and money, and I think he did it to all the kids, so it's more about him than about Jill. The deets about Jill are discussed in the Jill/Derick topic.

I have now found a few clues in Jill's book, that support my belief that JB pulled the same tax trick on all the kids as he did with Jill, i.e., through the CPA, filing income tax returns showing the individual had received $X income, which was never actually paid to that person.

After much dispute and unpleasantness from JB, Jill and Derick finally got a copy of the contract documents that she had signed the day before her wedding. She said this, mentioning what the "Compensation" section of the contract contained:

Also, she quoted JB's nasty itemization of what he'd spent on Jill, that he sent them when they were pushing to get copies of the contract and other relevant documents. I found it so distasteful that I skimmed it. But I read it again. Someone has posted a screenshot of it, either in the Jill/Derick topic or the TLC/media one, I don't remember, sorry.

Before he lays out the numbers, JB says:

He's such an arse. I don't care how long and loud he hollers "Jesus!!" He truly worships money and power.

So basically charging all the kids for all the expenses to raise them from birth to whenever the contract says so.  I am surprised any charges for the kids being birthed weren't tagged on.

[MaryAnneSpier]

Back when Homeland Security went to investigate a Duggar lot, for what we all later learned was due to Josh's CSAM, I assumed the government was there for financial fraud investigations. I've been waiting for news to come out that JB is in trouble for some shady financial doings that to the outside seemed rather sketchy but not out-and-out illegal. Now with Jill's book coming out and making some of the financial stuff public (again, it doesn't seem to be fully illegal...)I wonder if, in a couple of years, he will be prosecuted.

[jacourt]

Can you imagine having that hanging over his hair sprayed head?

[Laura Holt]

1 hour ago, MaryAnneSpier said:

I wonder if, in a couple of years, he will be prosecuted.

To quote my grandmother "From your mouth to God's ear".

[dariafan]

8 hours ago, Jeeves said:

I'm putting this here because it's about JB in general, not limited to Jill. We know that he did Jill a bad turn re taxes and money, and I think he did it to all the kids, so it's more about him than about Jill. The deets about Jill are discussed in the Jill/Derick topic.

I have now found a few clues in Jill's book, that support my belief that JB pulled the same tax trick on all the kids as he did with Jill, i.e., through the CPA, filing income tax returns showing the individual had received $X income, which was never actually paid to that person.

After much dispute and unpleasantness from JB, Jill and Derick finally got a copy of the contract documents that she had signed the day before her wedding. She said this, mentioning what the "Compensation" section of the contract contained:

Also, she quoted JB's nasty itemization of what he'd spent on Jill, that he sent them when they were pushing to get copies of the contract and other relevant documents. I found it so distasteful that I skimmed it. But I read it again. Someone has posted a screenshot of it, either in the Jill/Derick topic or the TLC/media one, I don't remember, sorry.

Before he lays out the numbers, JB says:

He's such an arse. I don't care how long and loud he hollers "Jesus!!" He truly worships money and power.

That is the same excuse Hugh Hefner used when girls next door started filming.  That they were paid in room and board.

[Gemma Violet]

Pickles says Tyler no longer lives with the Duggars; he is now with his grandparents who have filed for guardianship; and the Duggars will not fight it.

[AstridM]

1 hour ago, Gemma Violet said:

Pickles says Tyler no longer lives with the Duggars; he is now with his grandparents who have filed for guardianship; and the Duggars will not fight it.

Wonderful news!!

[Heathen]

1 hour ago, Gemma Violet said:

Pickles says Tyler no longer lives with the Duggars; he is now with his grandparents who have filed for guardianship; and the Duggars will not fight it.

I wonder what prompted that turnabout. 

[sagittarius sue]

2 hours ago, Heathen said:

I wonder what prompted that turnabout. 

Possibly Josh's conviction and Shiny Happy People.

[Tdoc72]

2 hours ago, Heathen said:

I wonder what prompted that turnabout. 

 My guess was that maybe it’s easier for the grandparents to care for him now that’s he’s a little older and would need a different level of care. But who really knows?  I hope he’s happy though and doesn’t miss his similarly aged cousins ( or however they’re related) too much. 

[Panopticon]

One of the rare nice things I have to say about JB and Michelle is that they really treated Tyler as another sibling for their kids. Granted I think the way they treat their bio kids suck, but Tyler always looked quite happy to be there. I hope yet another change in family situation isn’t too hard on him. 

[GeeGolly]

Poor Tyler, this will be at least his 4th change in guardianship through no fault of his own.

Does anyone know if his grandparents live near the Duggars? It would be nice if he could at least maintain contact with his cousins who really became siblings in the last 7 years.

[Gemma Violet]

Pickles said SHP was released on June 2 and Tyler left on June 5.  Could be a coincidence, but who knows.

 

[Gemma Violet]

Someone in the comments said Tyler left because he didn't want to change his name to Jyler. 😊

[Jeeves]

  

15 hours ago, Natalie68 said:

So basically charging all the kids for all the expenses to raise them from birth to whenever the contract says so.  I am surprised any charges for the kids being birthed weren't tagged on.

No kidding!

I do not believe JB has actually invoiced his kids for their care and feeding. He was furious - and I think scared sh*tless - by Jill and Derick insisting on getting copies of the TLC contract and the Mad Family Inc. corporate documents (Jill was a shareholder). In his rage and fear he came up with that stupid "itemized statement" and fired it at her.

It was a d*ck move. And a stupid one. Because now there will be a public memory of him as the guy who billed his kids for their upbringing. Not exactly accurate, but I'm not breaking my heart over any unfairness to him if that does stick to his public persona. 

In his reaction to Jill and Derick challenging his authority, he also enlisted several of his other kids to pile on the Dillards. They sent voicemails and texts "all day long, each one pleading with us to get this resolved." All that was needed was for JB to hand over the documents so "resolving" it was in his hands, not the Dillards'. When the phone onslaught didn't work some of them started visiting - day and night. Jill was willing to sit and hear them out, but when they started coming over and wanting to stay up till midnight talking, when Derick had law school exams, the next day, she "finally told them no." And got pushback! They said "this is way more important than law school!" Oy.

She said that one of the sibs did tell her what was going on. 

Quote

"Pops is telling everyone that if we don’t stand against you both on this, then we’re standing against him. He said none of us can be neutral here, and that this affects all of us. He says we might all be sued as a result of what you’re doing.”

When my sibling left, I cried. It was one thing for Pops to be angry at Derick and me, but how could he justify bringing his other children into it like this? How could he mislead them into thinking they might be sued, when he knew full well it was the Mad Family Inc. corporation we were dealing with, not our siblings? It made me sad for him. It made me scared for them.

          -- Duggar, Jill. Counting the Cost (pp. 221-222). Gallery Books. Kindle Edition. 

JB was also softening up the other sibs. From early 2017, JB had been paying "small, non-negotiable amounts" to the siblings and spouses who were filming. It seemed to Jill that he had brainwashed them into thinking they weren't owed anything and that "the $80,000 payment had been super generous." There were strings attached to those payments, of course - including piling on Jill and Derick. And I'm sure he was keeping the sibs in the dark about those tax returns. Jill says the sibs were "still so terrified of stirring up dissension among the brethren that they went along with most everything."  BTW she never identified any of the sibs involved, not even by gender. 

I can see JB being sh*t scared of his financial maneuverings being exposed. He could have been walking a line just on the right side of the tax laws, and I'm sure that any income taxes due on the "income" shown on his kids' tax returns were paid. Now, the fact that the kids weren't actually paid that "income" is a different matter. I think that in his own head, he believed all that money was his to control and by setting aside certain sums for his kids as a future inheritance (when he and Michelle died) or an "investment" he was managing, he was just being the headship. Or whatever. He invested the money in real estate and other businesses, and seems to have done pretty well. But the money he was using was earned by his entire family being at the beck and call of a TLC crew several weeks a year, from toddlerhood well into their 20's. And none of them saw a dime to call their own.

Since reading the book I've wondered if JB could have avoided a big blowup with Jill and Derick if he hadn't been so all-out arrogant and controlling from the start. What if he'd handed them the contract when they first asked, I think back in 2015 when the question of reimbursement for Izzy's birth costs came up? What if he'd disclosed how he'd handled the money for the kids? I think he might have avoided total war. Now, I don't think the fiddling with Jill's tax returns would have gone down well with Derick even then. But Jill was still deep into her Duggar/IBLP conditioning; she would have been terrified of leaving her umbrella of protection or stirring up dissension among the brethren. I wonder if it's possible that it could have been papered over somehow, with everyone presenting a united front to the public. 

But, that's not JB. He's a controlling, GREEDY, arrogant little domestic dictator. He was so enraged by one of his possessions - his precious people-pleasing Sweet Jilly Muffin - raring up and challenging him, that he did some really stupid things in reaction. I bet it never crossed his tiny mind, back in 2015 or whenever they first asked, to consider a way to share the contractual and financial info with Jill and Derick that would satisfy them and keep things rolling along. I think it was just a gut reaction to a challenge to his total control of everything and he went straight into controlling mode right then, and when they kept on pushing, into outright fight mode.

And about Michelle's midnight trip to deliver the contract? I think she saw that he was risking burning everything down, for no good reason, and maybe in a moment of "weakness" he said oh heck let them have the damn contract. And she ran straight out to the car at midnight in a snowstorm and drove it over before he could take it back. We'll never know, but that's my take on it.

[Heathen]

8 hours ago, sagittarius sue said:

Possibly Josh's conviction and Shiny Happy People.

Josh's conviction was almost two years ago. If that prompted the change, why TF did it take them so long? Shiny Happy People couldn't have come as a big shock, anyway. 

Something else had to be at the source. 

[dariafan]

Why does Jim boob have to be so over reactive ?  As Jill says in her book , he went home one day and smashed his 8 tracks because the music wasn’t pleasing to God.  He couldn’t just toss them ?  Like in shp when he talks about the bonfire to get rid of all worldly things in their house …

[AstridM]

3 hours ago, Gemma Violet said:

Someone in the comments said Tyler left because he didn't want to change his name to Jyler. 😊

Ha! At least he’s out of the cult and hopefully is now attending a real school. 

[GeeGolly]

8 minutes ago, AstridM said:

Ha! At least he’s out of the cult and hopefully is now attending a real school. 

I agree - to a degree.

Tyler was very lucky to be cared for by family members but being shuffled around is hard. And the fact that JB&M aren't fighting to keep him will no doubt have an impact.

Imagine at 15 years old going to high school having been homeschooled for the last 7 years. Imagine living with grandparents after spending the last 7 years surrounded by young folks.

Not saying remaining with the Duggars would be good, but surely leaving is hard.

[Natalie68]

2 hours ago, Jeeves said:

  

No kidding!

I do not believe JB has actually invoiced his kids for their care and feeding. He was furious - and I think scared sh*tless - by Jill and Derick insisting on getting copies of the TLC contract and the Mad Family Inc. corporate documents (Jill was a shareholder). In his rage and fear he came up with that stupid "itemized statement" and fired it at her.

It was a d*ck move. And a stupid one. Because now there will be a public memory of him as the guy who billed his kids for their upbringing. Not exactly accurate, but I'm not breaking my heart over any unfairness to him if that does stick to his public persona. 

In his reaction to Jill and Derick challenging his authority, he also enlisted several of his other kids to pile on the Dillards. They sent voicemails and texts "all day long, each one pleading with us to get this resolved." All that was needed was for JB to hand over the documents so "resolving" it was in his hands, not the Dillards'. When the phone onslaught didn't work some of them started visiting - day and night. Jill was willing to sit and hear them out, but when they started coming over and wanting to stay up till midnight talking, when Derick had law school exams, the next day, she "finally told them no." And got pushback! They said "this is way more important than law school!" Oy.

She said that one of the sibs did tell her what was going on. 

JB was also softening up the other sibs. From early 2017, JB had been paying "small, non-negotiable amounts" to the siblings and spouses who were filming. It seemed to Jill that he had brainwashed them into thinking they weren't owed anything and that "the $80,000 payment had been super generous." There were strings attached to those payments, of course - including piling on Jill and Derick. And I'm sure he was keeping the sibs in the dark about those tax returns. Jill says the sibs were "still so terrified of stirring up dissension among the brethren that they went along with most everything."  BTW she never identified any of the sibs involved, not even by gender. 

I can see JB being sh*t scared of his financial maneuverings being exposed. He could have been walking a line just on the right side of the tax laws, and I'm sure that any income taxes due on the "income" shown on his kids' tax returns were paid. Now, the fact that the kids weren't actually paid that "income" is a different matter. I think that in his own head, he believed all that money was his to control and by setting aside certain sums for his kids as a future inheritance (when he and Michelle died) or an "investment" he was managing, he was just being the headship. Or whatever. He invested the money in real estate and other businesses, and seems to have done pretty well. But the money he was using was earned by his entire family being at the beck and call of a TLC crew several weeks a year, from toddlerhood well into their 20's. And none of them saw a dime to call their own.

Since reading the book I've wondered if JB could have avoided a big blowup with Jill and Derick if he hadn't been so all-out arrogant and controlling from the start. What if he'd handed them the contract when they first asked, I think back in 2015 when the question of reimbursement for Izzy's birth costs came up? What if he'd disclosed how he'd handled the money for the kids? I think he might have avoided total war. Now, I don't think the fiddling with Jill's tax returns would have gone down well with Derick even then. But Jill was still deep into her Duggar/IBLP conditioning; she would have been terrified of leaving her umbrella of protection or stirring up dissension among the brethren. I wonder if it's possible that it could have been papered over somehow, with everyone presenting a united front to the public. 

But, that's not JB. He's a controlling, GREEDY, arrogant little domestic dictator. He was so enraged by one of his possessions - his precious people-pleasing Sweet Jilly Muffin - raring up and challenging him, that he did some really stupid things in reaction. I bet it never crossed his tiny mind, back in 2015 or whenever they first asked, to consider a way to share the contractual and financial info with Jill and Derick that would satisfy them and keep things rolling along. I think it was just a gut reaction to a challenge to his total control of everything and he went straight into controlling mode right then, and when they kept on pushing, into outright fight mode.

And about Michelle's midnight trip to deliver the contract? I think she saw that he was risking burning everything down, for no good reason, and maybe in a moment of "weakness" he said oh heck let them have the damn contract. And she ran straight out to the car at midnight in a snowstorm and drove it over before he could take it back. We'll never know, but that's my take on it.

What I find hilarious is now that the financial shenanigans are out there, possibly there will be some further looksee into Mad Family Inc/JB.  Just wait until the other kids wake up!  Just look what happened with Josh and some of his skeletons coming rattling out of his closet.  The door opened a smidge and now he is a guest of the Feds.  I would like to think Michelle snuck the contract to them and JB had no idea.  I would like to think she isn't a total loser.

1 hour ago, dariafan said:

Why does Jim boob have to be so over reactive ?  As Jill says in her book , he went home one day and smashed his 8 tracks because the music wasn’t pleasing to God.  He couldn’t just toss them ?  Like in shp when he talks about the bonfire to get rid of all worldly things in their house …

Brings up the memory of some of the kids talking about Pop's temper.  WHAT DID THEY SEE???  WHAT DID HE DO?  Besides father a totally gross pedo and other sons who see women as chattle.

[crazycatlady58]

I wonder what J.B.'s blood pressure has been during all of this upheaval?

[GeeGolly]

40 minutes ago, crazycatlady58 said:

I wonder what J.B.'s blood pressure has been during all of this upheaval?

And Michelle's.

[AgathaC]

I kind of wonder about Michelle. I always assumed she was kind of a silent partner steering the ship. But the more I’m hearing (from people who’ve read the book, other comments), I’m wondering just how much she was brainwashed, manipulated and controlled by JB.

That wouldn’t absolve her of failing to protect her children, but it would add a layer.

[Salacious Kitty]

Jill definitely puts the lion's share of the blame for everything on JB. I think she let Meech off pretty easy, even casting her as a heroine in the contract delivery scene. 

[GeeGolly]

8 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Jill definitely puts the lion's share of the blame for everything on JB. I think she let Meech off pretty easy, even casting her as a heroine in the contract delivery scene. 

I think that could be for a few reasons. One is a lot of what Michelle does is behind the scenes and for JB's ears only. Of course when JB is flying off the handle independent of Michelle's 'support' he looks like a solo bad guy. Also, I do think Michelle likes to resolve things to a degree, at least to a low and polite roar. And lastly Jill didn't/doesn't want either of her parents to be angry with her so anything that looks like an olive branch or support is amplified in her mind. She's assuming she knows why Michelle dropped the contract off, when Michelle's reason could be totally different.

No matter how its put, JB&M put Jill through hell though.

[jschoolgirl]

6 hours ago, Jeeves said:

And about Michelle's midnight trip to deliver the contract? I think she saw that he was risking burning everything down, for no good reason, and maybe in a moment of "weakness" he said oh heck let them have the damn contract. And she ran straight out to the car at midnight in a snowstorm and drove it over before he could take it back. We'll never know, but that's my take on it.

I am surprised that he permitted her to even handle it, let alone deliver it.

[MaryAnneSpier]

In regards to Tyler, could it be possible that the Duggars are being carefully eyed by DCFS? If Anna and her 7 kids are staying in the house, and a lot of money is being put toward legal fees and payouts to the elder Duggar offspring, perhaps there's an issue of providing a proper home to that many kids, resulting in Tyler being sent somewhere more suitable as deemed by DCFS. Or maybe just the general discord, tension, and upheaval in the household was too much for Tyler to handle emotionally. 

[GeeGolly]

DCF can't remove kids from their parents because they're poor.

I'm guessing Tyler's family are concerned over all the bullshit going on and requested custody and JB&M aren't fighting it because they don't want more negative publicity.

[Notabug]

Quote

What if he'd handed them the contract when they first asked, I think back in 2015 when the question of reimbursement for Izzy's birth costs came up?

What if, back when Jill and Derick, just starting out in marriage, faced unexpected medical expenses from the birth of their child and, Jill's father, known to be quite secure financially, had simply stepped up, like so many people in similar circumstances do and offered to give them a check to cover their bills?

My parents never had any kind of money, but I know danged well that if I or any of my siblings ever faced a similar circumstance, my mom and dad would've helped as much as they could even if they had to cut back on things for themselves to do it.

Considering how many hundreds of thousands JB has dumped down the sewer that is Josh,  writing a check for 10 grand so that Jill and Derick wouldn't be saddled with that debt so early in their marriage seems like it would've been easy peasy for JB.  Selfish cheapskate.

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

DCF can't remove kids from their parents because they're poor.

I'm guessing Tyler's family are concerned over all the bullshit going on and requested custody and JB&M aren't fighting it because they don't want more negative publicity.

I'd imagine things are a little tough at the TTH these days and, if Tyler has been seeing and speaking to his grandparents all along; he was more than happy to get out of that atmosphere.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Notabug

[YupItsMe]

Maybe it was Tyler’s choice to move?

[Salacious Kitty]

5 minutes ago, YupItsMe said:

Maybe it was Tyler’s choice to move?

Tyler's wishes weren't made known in the petition. However, his mother approved the move, being unemployed with no transportation still unable to care for him herself. His father is listed as "unknown." That's sad.

[AstridM]

2 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Tyler's wishes weren't made known in the petition. However, his mother approved the move, being unemployed with no transportation still unable to care for him herself. His father is listed as "unknown." That's sad.

Doesn’t his mom have custody of another of her kids though?

[Laura Holt]

18 hours ago, jschoolgirl said:

I am surprised that he permitted her to even handle it, let alone deliver it.

TO be honest I am actually surprised Michelle and the girls are even allowed to drive.

[Meow Mix]

2 hours ago, Laura Holt said:

TO be honest I am actually surprised Michelle and the girls are even allowed to drive.

I suspect that's just a matter of convenience.  If they couldn't drive, one of the menfolk would have to drive them to the grocery store and wherever else they needed to go to keep things running.  That would seriously cut into their leisure time.

I can't see Michelle openly defying JB and handing over the contract, but I can definitely see the scenario where she talked him down and got him to agree in a moment of weakness and ran the contract over there before he could change his mind.  I suspect given some of the evidence of his temper that she has had to learn how to manage him.

The biggest thing here is that had he just provided the contract, taken his lumps and given them some money to satisfy them in the short term, maybe none of this would have happened.  I doubt JB has enough self-awareness to see his own part in this mess.