S05.E09: A Moorland Holiday (Christmas Special)

[TexasGal]

 

Agree and agree! Diana was horrified to be dumped in the middle of a party--she was expecting, per the telegram, that Lord S. would be alone. This entire plot contrivance relied on her not being told "Lord Sinderby is entertaining" when she showed up at the door, and on her not being announced so that Rose could save the day by pretending to know her. Neither of which seem to ring true, at all.

 

And there were no consequences to Thomas or Mary from it, which was annoying. I get that Sinderby and the butler were assholes, but this stunt was completely out of proportion, and someone should have called them out for it, especially for the degree to which it inconvenienced (and, had it worked, would have exposed) Diana and an innocent young child. I hated how Mary just sighed and told Donk that she'd recruited Thomas to take Sinderby the butler down a peg, and Donk just kind of rolled his eyes, and that was that.

 

Of the many recurring stories that is Downton, I think the "Thomas goes too far but ends up smelling like a rose (or at least has no negative consequences)" story is my second most hated.  Most hated, of course, is that one or the other Bates must be accused of a crime at all times.

 

I loved that Edith was shown meeting the estate manager, being charming and interested in him, and actually carrying off a conversation without being rude.  I'm looking at you, Mary.

 

The last 30/40 minutes, starting with the prayer for Sybil, I was pretty much all sniffles.  I'm such a sucker.

Edited March 2, 2015 by TexasGal

[ScoobieDoobs]

And why did it seem to make Lord S. so jovial with everyone after? Like, "my children and grandchildren will never be fully accepted into the Jewish community... But you did me a solid this time so it's OK." Huh? I also don't give high marks to Rose for being so loving to him after seeing he's clearly a hypocritical dirtbag. She's happy to keep the mistress and the illegitimate baby brother a secret from her husband in exchange for his acceptance? OK, then.

 

 

I just kept thinking -- what the heck was the point of all this?  To show how Rose is a lovely young woman, inside & out?  Er, duh.  We clearly know that.  To give Rose a happy ending & Sinderby will, from now on, be a nice chap & all lovey dovey to her?  Yeah right.  He's a cheating asshole.  And now she knows it.  And she has to keep the secret she now knows, that he has a mistress & an illegitimate son, from his rather nice wife, her mother-in-law. 

 

Sure, it gives Rose leverage against her father-in-law, but it is an unpleasant secret & she has to keep it from her husband.  Not a great way to start a marriage -- hiding a big secret.  She'll probably have a happy marriage anyway, but still, I wasn't completely buying this happily ever after stuff.  Cuz the fact of her not being Jewish is still gonna cause of great deal of conflict with Sinderby.  Didn't think this was well thought out by JF.

 

I am unsure about Matthew Goode.  Don't get me wrong.  I think there's potential.  But his character didn't interact enough with Mary to see what exactly the chemistry is or how he'll fare on the show.  I like him a lot.  After all, what's not to like?  He's charming & adorable & a capable actor & he seems like nice enough guy, with a pleasant presence.  A lot depends on how his character turns out.  I didn't get much of a sense of his character, other than he's observant, likes cars, has some bucks &  has a somewhat cool, rather chilly demeanor & can spar with Miss Sourpuss.  Sounds like a lot, but actually it's not much -- at all.

 

Poor Matthew Goode was definitely poised, a few years ago, to be the next big thing in films & that just didn't happen.  I don't watch The Good Wife, but it sounds like he's not being used to his potential there & it might go the same way here.  Hope not.  He's definitely not gonna be the gay sidekick Charles was or the dim, dull, empty hunk Tony was, but that doesn't guarantee he'll be the "endgame" I see him being referred to as.  

 

Hmmm, Matthew Goode's character & Mary could get hot & heavy & fizzle out quick.  Um, it's happened to me more times than I wanna think about.  Hey, Vi, you weren't the only one who's had an active lovelife, hun.  Altho mine wasn't quite 50 years ago, but what we do have in common is it wasn't completely tracked & set in stone forever by Twitter, Facebook & Instagram -- thank God!

Edited March 2, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[Hanahope]

Added that I was sorry things didn't work out for Isobel and Lord Merton.  I thought they worked well together and its a shame that she didn't feel up to fighting with the sons.  Also, why didn't Lord M just say that they wouldn't see them all that often because they'd do other things, travel, purposely keep their distance, etc.  I must say that while Isobel is still supposed to be "middle class", her wardrobe had certainly improved tremendously.  She must get a nice stipend as the mother of the deceased Downton heir/grandmother of the current heir.

 

And I loved how Dowager C dodged Isobel's question about straying again after the Prince.  I would have been nice if the Princess had at least acknowledged a little bit that Dowager C did her a solid/huge repayment by rescuing her from whatever hovel she was in while in China and giving her a lavish lifestyle again.

[jschoolgirl]

Just have Bates take care of Dickie's sons.

Easy breezy. Problem solved.

[ennui]

I thought it was interesting that Mary knew Thomas was the go-to guy when you want something done. Thomas is a handy guy to have on staff, I'd think. I actually liked his character, for a change, even if he did go too far. As far as Mary knew, Thomas was following her suggestion.

 

I like Mary, even though I gather most don't. I wish she were allowed to smile once in a while, I think people would perceive her differently. As for Henry Talbot, well, some men really like bitchy women. I've seen it countless times in the real world. Not sure where the "cars" story could go, but this is the 1920s, and cars were becoming far more common.

 

I like Matthew Goode, and I hope he gets a major role here. He might be the levity that Mary needs.

Edited March 2, 2015 by ennui

[ScoobieDoobs]

Just have Bates take care of Dickie's sons.

 

Easy breezy. Problem solved.

 

 

A Bates death stare (er, oddly similar to the Angelina Jolie death stare, which is enough to make top film execs lose their jobs) should be enough to finish those 2 off quickly.  And if that doesn't work, maybe a nearby bus (or moving something) Mary or Anna can push 'em both in front of?  Um, as Vi would say -- "Oh, goody!"

Edited March 2, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[ichbin]

As I sit at my table of one of still loving Anna with all my heart (and still caring about Bates, kind of, but I'll get to that in a second), OH MY GOD, SHOW. Victimize her more, why don't you? I literally yelled out "Oh Jesus Fucking Christ!" when she started the story about how her stepfather molested her. Why, Show?

 

The first time I saw Joanne Froggatt on Downton Abbey I remembered her from Bad Girls.  Her character in that could have been a modern day Anna.   I have a feeling casting directors see her as a downtrodden type. 

Edited March 2, 2015 by ichbin

[SunnyBeBe]

I'll just add to the totally ridiculous way they portrayed the police go after a poor woman, like Anna who works for an upscale family just so they can prosecute her for killing a serial rapist!!!!!!! (With no real evidence.)  Please.  And the story the police told about that since Green's death became well known more and more of his victims were coming forward with their story...WHAT?  No way that makes sense.  If you found out the rapist was dead, you would want to let it rest and move on without telling anyone.  There is no point, since others are not in danger and there will be no prosecution. It makes no sense to come forward after the rapist is dead. When I am insulted as a viewer, it really annoys me.  

[photo fox]

Yeah, that was weird. I get that it was engineered so that Diana and her son would show up at the most inconvenient time, but why would Lord S.'s servants allow uninvited/unannounced guests to be escorted right into the middle of a party?

It wasn't said, but I think it can be explained by the fact that they weren't Lord Sinderby's servants, except for the butler. They came with the house. So they A) were probably more lax than usual, and B) wouldn't know who was actually supposed to be coming to the party. There's also the likelihood that they resent Sinderby as a jew and a newcomer to the nobility, and let her in as a show of disrespect. 

 

She didn't, though - she told him to take the butler down a peg. I don't think Mary would ever let go of her aristocratic notions long enough to ask a servant to do anything to a peer. It was Thomas who decided to take Sinderby down with the butler, since he was mad at Sinderby for insulting him.

I thought Thomas was doing it because Sinderby would be embarrassed, but also because he would think the butler was the only person in on his secret, and therefore it was either arranged by him or he'd been gossiping below stairs (which was true). And therefore the butler would get in trouble via Sinderby being embarrassed. Win/win for Thomas! 

 

The shooting scenes kept confusing me.  What was the controversy about people taking other peoples' spots, or something?  Why was this important?  Couldn't they have just "accidentally" shot each other and saved us all the trouble?

I'm with the camp that thinks this is really none of Mary's business, but even if it were, she didn't accomplish anything. What's the point of making someone uncomfortable when there's nothing they can do to remedy the situation? And why on earth was she so upset on Atticus's behalf, anyway? He didn't seem to care one whit.

[ShadowFacts]

I'm really not that happy if Rose's superpower is being a fixer for the indiscretions and hypocrisies of aristocratic men.  I think she helped out in the caper a couple seasons ago where an embarrassing letter to one of her friends from a duke or prince got into a blackmailer's hands.  Now this with her terrible father-in-law.  I wish there would have been a different way to neutralize him without Rose having to have a painful secret to keep from her own husband, and hope that her very nice mother-in-law never is hurt. 

 

I also wish that Baxter had not been complicit in the scheme to bring down the butler.  It was played as if she was only doing what Mary wanted, but given her prior troubles and how she promised Cora she would be clean as a whistle. . . it just is something I'd rather not have seen her do.  Mary set the thing in motion, which resulted in Thomas being insulted by Sinderby, which then escalated into some really ugly stuff.  Talk about a breach of etiquette.  She rags on another guest for an inadvertent inconvenience which Atticus didn't even care about, but she has the audacity to induce Thomas to cause unpleasantness in her host's household.  Bad form. 

[Crs97]

Mary was being incredibly rude.  She is not the host, she is a guest herself.  None of her beeswax.

 

Henry was glad that Mary informed him of what was going on. If it hadn't been for her, they would have thought of him as a pushy inconvenience the entire time. A kind of Richard Carlisle type who doesn't care who he inconveniences so long as he gets his way.

That being said, Mary did acknowledge that it wasn't any of her business to Henry, she just wanted to let him know. I'd personally want to know if my hosts thought that my presence was a nuisance.

 

 

When she was upset on Atticus's behalf, Atticus told her she could say something to Henry.  That's when Tom made the crack about her being the epitome of unselfishness and she gave him the eye roll.  At least she owns it.

 

I didn't particularly like the exchange, but she did mutter a relatively innocuous comment and then tell Henry not to worry about it.  He was the one who pressed, and she somewhat apologized for even mentioning it after she could tell he felt badly about the outcome.

 

A few times I saw some looks that could make Tom/Mary shippers happy.  When she is singing, they flash to Tom's face.  Is he just upset because it's his last Christmas?  He has an interesting look on his face as he is watching her.  I also noticed that when Edith said she would miss him, he responded that he would miss everyone.  I don't think he has been answering so broadly with Mary.  Just a heads up that Julian may not have shut that door next season if Henry doesn't work out.

[Llywela]

That castle was great.  Did people (meaning nobility) really "rent out" castles in those days?  I guess maybe so if they needed extra cash for the taxes.

Yes, they did. Think back to Jane Austen - the trigger for the entire plot in Pride & Prejudice is that the largest house in the neighbourhood has been let after lying empty for years. Properties were rented out for all kinds of reasons - not just to make a bit of cash to pay taxes or regain lost fortunes, but also simply because a lot of titled families married into one another and ended up with a whole portfolio of properties - they could only live in one at a time, and always had their favourites, so letting the others out was a way of both making money and ensuring that the property was aired out from time to time rather than being shut up in dustsheets to moulder. Plus, it gave noble families the opportunity to move around and meet the right sort in other parts of the country, which helped with the whole marriage market scenario.

The first time I saw Joanne Froggatt on Downton Abbey I remembered her from Bad Girls.  Her character in that could have been a modern day Anna.   I have a feeling casting directors see her as a downtrodden type. 

I can go back further than that - I remember her from her first TV role on Coronation Street...and she was pretty downtrodden there, too, as a street kid who gave a baby up for adoption and then took it back (shades of Edith) only to see it die anyway.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Llywela

[madam magpie]

It's 1924. It doesn't surprise me at all that the police don't care that Anna was raped or that Greene was a serial rapist, that Anna's stepfather molested her, that her mother would do nothing and Anna would say nothing because of their position and finances, or that the police would go after her hard. They probably think she and the other women led Greene on. What does surprise me is that her husband has a modern viewpoint and doesn't blame Anna at all (though it's Bates, so not really) and that Scotland freakin Yard cares about the death of a random valet.

Edited March 2, 2015 by madam magpie

[ZoloftBlob]

I personally could have done without the Spratt and Denker stupidity. Does the show really need more staff in a different house bitching at each other. The petty shit between Thomas and the Sinderby butler at least made some sense... the weird shit over the broth was just ridiculous. I genuinely don't even remember WHY someone was making broth for Violet or why it was so fucking fantastic or why we wasted so much time on the lady's maid not knowing how to make broth.

[morakot]

I wonder if the Drewes came to the tenants' party and how an interaction between Marigold and her other family went.

[Malaprop cocktail]

the weird shit over the broth was just ridiculous. I genuinely don't even remember WHY someone was making broth for Violet or why it was so fucking fantastic or why we wasted so much time on the lady's maid not knowing how to make broth.

 

It really was bizarre that that made it out of the writers' (writer's, from what people are saying about Fellowes?) room. The whole thing depended on everyone, but especially Denker, making really odd decisions.

 

It started when Violet was showing Isobel some broth bowl that her nanny (?) used to serve broth from when Violet was sick. And she said the broth really hit the spot, and then Spratt said that Denker should make Violet a bowl of broth some time. And instead of Denker saying "Oh, I'm afraid I'm useless at making broth, but my other qualifications as lady's maid more than make up for that minor deficiency, and I'd be delighted to go to Mrs. Patmore's kitchen on a moment's notice to fetch you some broth whenever you like," like a normal person would say, she tried to learn to make broth and then tried to pretend that she was making broth and so on just so they could get into this bizarre and inconsequential pissing match.

 

Why wouldn't she 'fess up? OF ALL THE REASONS Violet would be inclined to fire Denker, I doubt "can't make broth" is one to worry about.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Malaprop cocktail

[CatWarmer]

 

why has no one spoken to Bates about "taking care" of Lord Merton's sons?

Or better yet, Barrow.

 

Maybe Violet will eat a bowl of the broth and keel over. Because If I were Maggie Smith, I would do anything to get out of that story line.

 

I was amused by the blatant rip-off from Upstairs Downstairs vis-a-vis the butler marrying a staff member and starting a boarding house. But I think Mr. Hudson and Mrs. Bridges will probably be much happier than Mr. Carson and Mrs. Hughes. Hudson will be much better fed, and Mrs. Bridges probably won't think of her husband as a booby. Or feel the need to be eternally grateful for being rescued from future poverty.  Plus Hudson and Mrs. Bridges had a long term understanding.

 

The costumes were stunning. Talking of costumes, I didn't know how anyone could have identified Anna in the line up considering all the women practically had their hats pulled down over their faces. "Yes, that's the nose and chin I saw."

[JudyObscure]

When she was upset on Atticus's behalf, Atticus told her she could say something to Henry.  That's when Tom made the crack about her being the epitome of unselfishness and she gave him the eye roll.  At least she owns it.

Mary will always own her rudeness because she thinks it's way cool.  In Julian Fellowes's 16 year-old world of romance; girl sees cute boy she likes, girl says something mean to him in a totally bored voice to get his attention,  boy instantly becomes interested because she talked to him and she's pretty, boy shows off his cool car to her, girl is, like, really impressed.

 

The Anna & Bates story is more like an endless spiral of "The Gift of the Magi."  Only instead of the wife sells her hair to buy her husband a watch chain while he sells his watch to buy her a comb, it's --  Bates goes off to kill Greene because he raped Anna, only he changes his mind, while Anna is so worried that he did it that Mrs. Hughes and Mary burn tickets that could get him off and then Anna goes to jail so he confesses to a crime he didn't do, busily committing perjury while Anna's about to get out anyway. 

 

  It was still a beautiful Christmas special -- The clothes, the castle, the dogs, the train, the Christmas tree, the children, Mary's maroon coat in the prison, Donk and Edith, Rose and Atticus, Mosely and Baxter,  Hughes and Carson, Violet and Isabelle.

[proserpina65]

That castle was great.  Did people (meaning nobility) really "rent out" castles in those days?  I guess maybe so if they needed extra cash for the taxes.

 

It was rather smashing.  They used Alnwick Castle in Northumberland as a stand in for Brancaster Castle, for both exteriors and some interior shots as well.  Having seen many, many photos of it (though never having visited there personally, unfortunately), I recognized it almost immediately.  Here's some info from the Alnwick Castle website:

 

"The cast and crew spent two busy weeks at the castle in July and August 2014, filming extensively in the spectacular State Rooms, as well as in the castle's grounds and at the semi-ruined Hulne Abbey in the Duke of Northumberland's parklands in Alnwick."

 

 

[FineWashables]

 

 

Just have Bates take care of Dickie's sons.

Easy breezy. Problem solved.

Why not have Thomas do it?  He's got more flair for revenge than Bates -- Bates is a one-trick pony.  All he knows how to do is murder.  And I'm so sick of Bates being under suspicion or in jail.  No more of that, please.  Plus, isn't it weird that Scotland Yard has an infinite amount of resources to throw at the murder of a servant?

 

I'm in the camp of those who think Mary was incredibly rude telling an invited guest that he shouldn't be there.  If the family couldn't make room for him, they should have offered an alternative date for his visit.  It's absolutely none of Mary's business.  Only with Lady Mary could this be considered a cute meet.

 

I don't understand why the Dowager Countess pretended to like the broth.  She obviously did not -- her excuse that she was too full to do it justice is patently silly.  Seems to me that both of her servants are out of control, which makes no sense given her sense of how things must be done.  Her lady's maid is awful, and I'd have thought she would have jumped at the chance to humble her.  Don't get it.

 

I do completely agree with Isabelle Crowley turning Lord Merton down because his sons are awful.  I'm assuming that because they're peers (or royalty?  Sorry for my American ignorance.) it wouldn't be appropriate to disown them, since there needs to be heirs to the property and the title.  Again, I don't know much about how these inheritances go, but it would seem that cutting someone off is really a big deal for the whole family dynasty.

 

Loved how Rose won Lord Sinderby over.  Loved the proposal and engagement of Carson and Mrs Hughes.  Loved that Prince Kuryagin is gone -- I couldn't help thinking that he looked like he smelled really bad, and I can't imagine the Dowager Countess being swept away by that at any age.  Love that the Dowager Countess apparently has some past flings in her life.  

 

 

[Tetraneutron]

I do laugh that Mary is the only one of the upstairs people who is still in the dark about Marigold. Maybe she too will one day put it together. That or Edith will have to tell her when Georgie starts talking abut how he's fallen in love and wants to marry Marigold.

I think she knows. Near the end, Robert was holding Sybbie and asked her what Marigold should call him. And she said "Donk" her word for grandfather. And then the camera goes to Mary across the room, and her head turns around. She's figured it out.

I think their relationship has evolved and softened since season 1 when they were sabotaging each other, and I believe Edith could tell Mary about Marigold for example without too much fear that Mary would blab.

The fear isn't Mary would blab. She'd never do that. The fear is she'd look down on Edith, which she totally would. I think it's ridiculous how much mental real estate Edith gives over to what her sister thinks of her.

Like I think everyone here, the broth subplot was the dumbest thing ever but Spratt is probably the most realistic servant. He cares about keeping his job and he does it by sucking up to his boss and bullying his colleagues. We've all worked with a Spratt. It's probably more realistic that the undying loyalty the Crawleys get.

As for Mary and Talbot, I wonder if Fellowes has any ideas to make the plot interesting. As it stands they're both single, wealthy, aristocrats who are into each other. Where's the storyline in that?

[moonb]

The broth storyline was one of the weirdest and most absurd things I've ever seen on a tv drama, and yet still more compelling than Bates/Anna and their endless cycle of gloom and prison.

I liked Mary and Edith together, and some tiny hints that maybe they're growing up. I'm another one who thought the Sybil remembrance was touching - just the sort of thing a family with a loss like that might be going through at Christmastime. I'm of the "wait and see" on Henry Talbot; Matthew Goode was in The Imitation Game as a ladies' man-type and he looked completely different to me here.

I wish Isobel had a storyline apart from Violet, though I love them together. I could see her irritating Lord Merton's sons away from him the way she tried to get the prostitutes in season 2 or 3 to "better themselves." But yes, she doesn't care enough for the man himself to bother with his jackass sons, and neither does he, apparently.

Love Mrs Hughes, as always. And yes, I'm hanging in there for the evolution of 1920s fashion and settings.

Edited March 2, 2015 by moonb

[Crs97]

I hated the broth subplot because as much as I dislike Spratt, I cannot stand Denker.  Any airtime is a waste, especially having to watch Denker gloat and preen that her lie didn't get her fired.

[Constantinople]

I personally could have done without the Spratt and Denker stupidity. Does the show really need more staff in a different house bitching at each other. The petty shit between Thomas and the Sinderby butler at least made some sense... the weird shit over the broth was just ridiculous. I genuinely don't even remember WHY someone was making broth for Violet or why it was so fucking fantastic or why we wasted so much time on the lady's maid not knowing how to make broth.

What puzzles me most is that I feel I was supposed to take Denker's side over Spratt, rhymes with prat.

But I'll choose Spratt the shit stirrer over someone who's willing to set-up the temporary footman as a mark in exchange for free drinks, and then gets so drunk that Baxter ends filling in for her.

[magdalene]

A couple of seasons ago it amused me when it was revealed that not only the downstairs folks but also the upstairs people all know that Thomas is gay and were just oh well and shrugging it off. Now it amuses me that they all know that scheming and getting away with it are his super power and are not above taking advantage of it.   

One day - if the family can still afford to have one then - Thomas may well be their butler.

[ShadowFacts]

Denker is unpleasant and what she did to the temp footman was low.  Sprat also has sunk low, like when he let Molesley get burned while serving food, to make him look inept.  He's still on my shit list for that one.

[Rhetorica]

I wonder if the Drewes came to the tenants' party and how an interaction between Marigold and her other family went.

Ooh, I never thought of that! That could have been better than Sinderby's love child.

[Constantinople]

I don't understand why Atticus is taking a job in New York, and why Lord Sinderby doesn't appear to care.

As Stowell described Lord Sinderby, "His Lordship, with a title that's not ten minutes old." Given his 10 minute old title, Lord Sinderby's peerage (wealth) almost certainly derived from business or finance rather than agriculture.

I'd think Lord Sinderby would want Atticus around to help run the family business interests.

[Capricasix]

I didn't realize till I checked IMDB that Alun Armstrong was the castle butler and Jane Lapotaire was the princess--double Nicholas Nickleby!

.

Alun Armstrong also played Harry Percy senior in The Hollow Crown - Henry IV, and his son Joe played his son Harry (Hotspur); part of that series was also filmed at Alnwick Castle.

[JudyObscure]

What puzzles me most is that I feel I was supposed to take Denker's side over Spratt, rhymes with prat.

But I'll choose Spratt the shit stirrer over someone who's willing to set-up the temporary footman as a mark in exchange for free drinks, and then gets so drunk that Baxter ends filling in for her.

 

I know, right?  Denker is the most inconsistent character I've ever seen. Is she an underhanded, drunken hustler, or is she a sad, older lady trying hard to keep her new position as lady's maid?  At least we know where we stand with Spratt.

[AZChristian]

Regarding the distant cousin who is the estate manager at the borrowed castle (sorry, I can't remember his name and haven't scrolled back up to find it).

 

He may be a poor distant relation, but so was Matthew . . . and the entail hasn't been made illegal in 1924, if I remember what I've read.

 

I think it would be a hoot if he inherits, becomes filthy rich, marries Edith, adopts Marigold . . . and then Mary's race car driver runs off with someone else, leaving her in the dust.

[bmoore4026]

There was a wedding in the S5 finale - Rose and Atticus. You saw that last week. This episode was the Christmas special, not the season finale.

 

Thanks for clearing that up.  I missed episode eight because of The Oscars and my PBS affiliates rerun their shows at ungodly hours.

[kassa]

Every time I see the little girl playing Sybbie I think she's going to grow up and be Cynthia on Call the Midwife.

[avecsans]

I for one was glad that Isobel kicked Lord Merton to the curb. Even though I liked them together, he went on my list as soon as he failed to adequately stand up for Isobel to his heinous sons. She is much better off without that conflict in her life. And she can spend her time with Violet, which makes for some of my favorite scenes.

Speaking of Isobel, I wish she would go back to being a do-gooder like she was at first. She used to get under Donk's skin on a regular basis and that was very enjoyable.

I am wondering why Donk went to an off-brand doctor instead of going to Dr. Clarkson? Are there still hard feelings between them because of Sybil, or am I reading too much into it? And yes, it's perfectly understandable that Donk would have an ulcer. After all, a life full of skeet shooting, traveling and being waited on hand and foot must be very stressful.

Mrs. Hughes could do so much better than that pompous anachronism Mr. Carson. It was a pity proposal. I wonder if the "not right in the head" sister who just came into existence will make an appearance next season?

Edited March 3, 2015 by avecsans

[DeepRunner]

From the top, this was an episode that was closing out stories and wishes for fans, the Christmas Special seemed to have LOTS of mistletoe moments (a metaphor for LUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUV being in the air) mixed-in with some comical and comeuppance stuff:

 

* Carson and Mrs. Hughes--I guess this is what passes for "will they or won't they?" in the 1920's. After what can safely be called a s-l-o-w burn, it was a nice outcome, handled well with just the right amount of feeling (from Carson) and humor (from Sgt. Elsie)

 

* The Snotty Butler Beatdown--Stowell and Spratt. What Thomas did to Stowell and Lord Sinderby was incredibly dark-hearted; because Thomas is Fellowes's downstairs pet, he was not forced to account. It would have been good to see an act of sheer (career-crushing) vengeance toward Thomas. Stowell and Sinderby did deserve to be taken down a notch or two. The Queen Bee regretted enlisting Thomas. As far as Spratt goes, it was good to see Violet side with Denker in The Battle of the Broth. And it was great to see Denker throw the towel at Spratt

 

* Lord Sinderby's Lover--Meh...Fellowes could have come up with something else to humble Sinderby

 

* The Countess and The Princess--Now we know what really happened, although Violet implied she had strayed at other times

 

* The Sons of Dickie Merton, or Isobel Crawley, The Goodbye Girl--As nice as the Carson and Mrs. Hughes resolution was, this split felt forced. Don't think we've seen the last of Dickie

 

* Everybody Knows About Edith--PaPa knows. MaMa knows. Granny knows. Rosamund knows. The Drewes know. Branson knows. (His story about a lot of Marigolds was good and deft. Branson has grown on me as a character).Everyone knows...except Mary. My bet for S6 is that Mary will find out.

 

* Edith Meets The Agent--Another Mistletoe Moment. It will be interesting to see how this proceeds

 

* Mary Meets The Man Who Revs Engines--Interesting that they are introducing an interesting (race cars) love interest, should it progress that far, someone not as boring as Gillingham (who made the better choice) and Chahles. I will be curious to see how well he revs Mary's engine in S6, although, to be fair, she has been taken out for a spin, so to speak

 

* Drunk Robert--THAT was funny to see

 

* Everyone Can Call Him "Donk"--Let's see if Marigold does it in S6

 

* Molesley and Baxter--More mistletoe, more marriages? Seems E-V-E-R-Y-O-N-E downstairs is doing it. Which brings us to the couple that started the Downstairs Nuptials Mania...

 

* Anna and Bates--It took them most of the show to provide a slipshod ending to the "Did Anyone REALLY Kill Green?" storyline. Witness who was sure in the previous episode not so sure now. Bates on the lam on the Emerald Isle. Molesley and Baxter doing Anna Bates Investigates Redux. Anna being released from the front door of prison, only to want to go through the back door of the Abbey, to get things back to normal. The ending, when Bates came back, and they left to go to the cottage together, was interesting, as the door closed. Did it close on the episode? On the season? Or did it close on the Bates story (and I mean more than Green)?

 

All in all, a pretty good episode. Not the best, and there were moments (including those above) where it seemed like Fellowes was rushing through things to have the season end. But still, pretty good.

[ennui]

I also wish that Baxter had not been complicit in the scheme to bring down the butler.  It was played as if she was only doing what Mary wanted, but given her prior troubles and how she promised Cora she would be clean as a whistle.

Baxter has observed that Bates was accused of murder, did time, Anna's accused of murder, gets arrested, Bates confesses and skips to Ireland, and yet the Crawleys hire a lawyer for them and keep their jobs open for whenever they return. Baxter probably feels safe.

Apparently, Henry's hot wheels is a Bentley.

It's not clear to me, was Henry Talbot invited or did he just drop in? If he showed up unexpectedly, that would explain Mary's rudeness.

Edited March 3, 2015 by ennui

[Jodithgrace]

The thing that amused me about the broth brouhaha, was the notion that any Lady's maid would actually invade the kitchen, which is the sacrosanct territory of the cook and kitchen help, to make broth. No doubt, she would just waltz down and order some from the cook, who most likely had a stock pot perpetually on the back burner, and brought it up for her Lady. Perhaps the Lady, having no idea what goes into making broth, thought that her maid just whipped it up from the contents of her mending bag, And perhaps said maid didn't enlighten her. But the idea that all, or any, lady's maids could prepare a restorative broth is just absurd. Even if there was a kitchenette to which the maid had access, she was hardly going to be boiling bones and chopping vegetables. 

 

But I must say, the broth entries in the recap had me laughing our loud! 

Edited March 3, 2015 by Jodithgrace

[ZoloftBlob]

It's not clear to me, was Henry Talbot invited or did he just drop in? If he showed up unexpectedly, that would explain Mary's rudeness.

 

I *think* he was casually invited by another guest, a sort of unexpected guest but he personally had no idea that numbers were restricted - the friend invited him without telling that.

 

Is he supposed to be titled? Because I thought some of Mary's pique was that he didn't know the proper way things were done and also she didn't seem to know him as a fellow aristocrat.

[msblossom]

Finally watched the Season finale. Such a great finale, really great way to end the season. I loved seeing Robert being human and caring toward Edith, Cora, and Tom. Oh, but I'll miss Tom and Sybbie. I do think they'll be back next season, just maybe at the end.

Why can't Tom fall in love with Mary or Edith? I like his scenes with Edith very much. And for once this season they allowed Edith to look beautiful. I loved the red velvet dress she wore on Christmas Eve with the matching 20's cord thing across her forehead and around her head while Mary had a simple black dress and tiny barrette in her hair and still looked pretty but plain compared to Edith who was stunning.

I cried during the scene with Robert and Edith. I cried during the scene with Tom, Mary and Edith in the nursery. I cried during the scene with Robert and Tom and I cried during the scene when Robert toasted Tom and his voice cracked. I didn't cry when Carson proposed to Mrs. Hughes, though I was touched and happy for them both.

I don't like the Denker and butler storyline. That was a waste of time. I'm tired of Bates and Anna -- please let this be the end of it or them. Someone suggested they go to NYC with Atticus and Rose -- I second that! Although I want A & R to stay; I like the Sinderbys and I want more of Schrimpie.

+10 for the Dowager Countess and Cousin Isobel staying together. Is Schrimpie too old for Cousin Isobel? They'd make a good pair.

My heart beats for Mosely -- what a dear, kind man!

I'm neutral on the love interests for Mary and Edith.

[helenamonster]

 I was a little afraid that he was going to find Mary's birth control when he was going through drawers in the cottage.

 

I thought this, too. When it comes to Anna and Bates, it can always, always, get worse.

 

Speaking of Hogwarts, someone up-thread said one of the locations used in this episode was also used in Hogwarts?  Which one?

 

Alnwick Castle, which served as the castle that the Crawleys and Sinderbys stayed at, "played" the exterior of Hogwarts in the first two Potter films.

 

 

 

Is Bates really that much taller than Anna?  Hmmm......

 

According to IMDb, Brendan Coyle is six foot, and Jo Froggatt is five-two. As a five-oner with both a six-foot stepbrother and a six-foot best friend (who enjoys picking me up the way Bates did Anna whenever we haven't seen each other for awhile), I can confirm that the height difference is just as significant as it looks.

 

I think what pissed me off most regarding the story Anna told about her stepfather (besides the fact that this show, and television in general, has a rape fetish it needs to shake with a quickness) is that it was clearly pulled out of fucking nowhere and definitely was not a part of Anna's backstory when the character was conceived (out of all the downstairs characters, her backstory was always the least defined). The thing is, those who experience sexual assault as children or adolescents are more likely than those who haven't to be victims of sexual assault in adulthood. If this had been something that had been part of Anna's story from the beginning, it actually could have added a compelling element to it. They could have explored her lack of agency in both situations, being constantly restricted by society from reporting the attack, feeling guilty as she wondered what it was about her that kept attracting this kind of trauma. Rape stories don't have to be terrible. This one actually could have been something spectacular. They've got a more-than-capable actress playing Anna, and it would be exploring a very relevant social issue in a time period that is foreign to most of us. Fellowes actually had so much to work with but he pissed it all away on the Green murder plot, which still (!) doesn't seem to have an end in sight.

[Blackie]

I am with those who were taken aback by Mary being turned on my a fast car,....weird.

 

Also I agree that although Mrs Hughes and Mr Carson make a nice and practical couple, I have never got a romantic vibe from them, so even though it would be very reassuring for Mrs Hughes to be married for her future security, when she said "I thought you'd never ask" it came off slightly more gold-digger then romantic to me.

 

The broth storyline was a good sideline but hardly original, I guess except for the part that the Dowager let it go on knowing that Denker would fail. She was able to teach both of them a lesson  with one stone...she knows Denker is a bragging liar and Spratt is a whining tattle tail.  Now they can just both settle down and get along.

 

I can't stop thinking that Mary's new hairdo must be a nightmare for Anna or whoever to look after.  Sure it is not as much hair to wash and dry, but to get it that ironed perfectly straight must take a lot of upkeep.

 

Bates'...blech! 

[FineWashables]

 

I think she knows. Near the end, Robert was holding Sybbie and asked her what Marigold should call him. And she said "Donk" her word for grandfather. And then the camera goes to Mary across the room, and her head turns around. She's figured it out.

ITA.  While Mary has never been even a little nice to Edith, I wonder if her own recent fling with Tony and the difficulty of getting birth control might make her sympathetic.  It would be a welcome twist.

[ennui]

Is he supposed to be titled? Because I thought some of Mary's pique was that he didn't know the proper way things were done and also she didn't seem to know him as a fellow aristocrat.

I'm probably wrong, but my impression is that Henry is a commoner with a lot of money. Which would fit in with the theme of a crumbling, archaic system. People who don't know the rules.

Edited March 3, 2015 by ennui

[peggy06]

Totally different situation: Isobel, Tom and Mary remembering their spouses and the romantic love they shared. If it was just Tom and Mary, it would've made sense. Isn't bringing up Matthew insensitive considering Edith was also there and the father of her child also died? Mary's just damned if she does and damned if she doesn't.

 

I don't mean to be short, but the Sybil memorial was one of my favorite scenes of the whole episode. Sybil was Mary and Edith's sister, and Tom's wife. What was Matthew to Tom and Edith other than a friend? Given the almost familial relationship where Tom has become like Mary and Edith's brother, it was such a lovely remembrance of a young woman who they all loved deeply.

 

It doesn't diminish it just because Matthew wasn't included.

Not only that, but wasn't it Tom's suggestion? 

[majormama]

I liked the scene in the nursery until Mary started her prayer with, "Dear Sybil, wherever you are." How many places might she be? I mean, I don't see Mary as particularly devout whatever her official religion is. Maybe not atheist/agnostic so much as too practical to bother with philosophy. But other than Friends' Phoebe, does anyone think of their departed loved ones anywhere other than a version of Heaven? (Or if they're atheist, simply ceasing to exist.) Took me right out of the moment. 

 

I couldn't figure out why Lady Violet would add to the feud between her servants by asking Denker to make broth in the first place, and then pretending (I think) to like it. She doesn't want to lose Spratt, so it seemed odd for her to pile on. Is Spratt supposed to be high functioning ASD? He's incredibly good at the details of his job as long as nothing varies the routine, then he loses it.

[helenamonster]

I liked the scene in the nursery until Mary started her prayer with, "Dear Sybil, wherever you are." How many places might she be? I mean, I don't see Mary as particularly devout whatever her official religion is. Maybe not atheist/agnostic so much as too practical to bother with philosophy. But other than Friends' Phoebe, does anyone think of their departed loved ones anywhere other than a version of Heaven? (Or if they're atheist, simply ceasing to exist.) Took me right out of the moment. 

 

I understand and agree with your point regarding the beliefs of the characters, but don't forget that Lavinia swooped down to mess with the Ouija board back during the S2 CS. Sybil could be lurking anywhere in that house.

[3 is enough]

 

The actress who plays Marigold continues to be worrisomely limp.  "George" is a tiny boy but always showing at least some personality... but that kid just stares out with the creepiest dead-doll eyes I ever did see. Not a flinch in any scene, including the grown woman screaming and lunging at her at the Drewe's.

So glad I am not the only one who thinks this! She is the same size as George and Sybbie even though she is supposed to be younger.  In the nursery she is still in a crib while her cousins are in beds.  I know it is difficult to find very young actors and actresses, but surely they could have found someone a little more lively.  She reminds me of a child with developmental delays.  Can someone tell me how old the children are supposed to be?  I am a bit lost as to the timeline.  Thanks.

Edited March 3, 2015 by 3 is enough

[Crs97]

This has been a nitpick both last and this season:

 

For all of the angst about having an heir, Robert has barely acknowledged poor George's existence.  

[beeble]

Of course Mary was a bitch this episode. Her maid was wrongly imprisoned for murder. You'd be mad too if you had to break in another maid.

 

I will hand over the title to my house if Julian Fellowes would create a flashback episode of the Princess/Countess teen-age fight.

[ZoloftBlob]

I understand and agree with your point regarding the beliefs of the characters, but don't forget that Lavinia swooped down to mess with the Ouija board back during the S2 CS. Sybil could be lurking anywhere in that house.

 

No no no :)

 

Haven't we previously established that Sybil, and Matthew, and Gregson were all turned into Twilight like vampires by William Mason?

 

More seriously, the wording was a bit odd but I was more amused by the obvious lip syncing in Mary's carols.