S01.E05: Dangerous Bonds

[luckyroll3]

When he said "thot" I was thinking he meant "thought". Like she's just a thought. Well...damn. I feel old.

The only reason I even know what the term means is because a frakking teenager told me.  We can all be old together!

[ZaldamoWilder]

I just assume this kind of "error" is built in for people like me who would have no idea what the BX is. ;)

 

 

sorry, I know the board's moved on by now.  You're fine photo fox, no, built ins to exclude anybody ;) more like the phoenetically lazy way people in the same part of the country to talk to each other.  Sort of like the way I'd expect one Californian to say to another I'm from the bay, as opposed to I'm from the San Francisco Bay area.  I just meant that people tend not to speak in whole and proper geogrpahical markers if they're talking to others from the same city/state.  BX is short for the Bronx, but I think the thing we were lightweight debating was how a legit native would refer to it.  I have two friends in New Orleans who would cringe to hear it actually pronounced <- that way.  Since I'm already at full ramble I may as well tell you about the other boroughs nicknames - some of these make sense, some really just don't:  Manhattan is Money Makin'   Staten Island is Shaolin, Queens is nothing because nothing nice rhymes with Queens lol.  I kid.  Queens is Queensboro (creative huh?).  The Bronx, the only borough that has the inexplicable distinction of beginning with a the, is the Boogie Down and Brooklyn, the largest by population, has no nickname because it's the shit.   Lol, sorry.  Brooklyn is known as BK or Crooklyn.    I've drifted far enough off topic to be Tom Hanks.  byebye!

The only reason I even know what the term means is because a frakking teenager told me.  We can all be old together!

 

mom of a 15 year old raises her hand.  That's where I heard it.  I'll be rocking on the sunporch in case you need me.

[Congo]

I thought Lucious said "thought" as well. I had to look up what "thot" meant when the Twitter was talking about it. Now get off my lawn.

[Jade Foxx]

 

I'm getting old. I didn't get "drip drop " until I saw the fake rain. That's when I finally went, oohhhh, making it rain".

Well okay. I'm an original B-girl, but did not get the drip drop/making it rain" connection AT ALL.

 

I was thinking something more literal, like drip drop from one's private parts, and couldn't figure out how that was supposed to be good thing...

 

I too have a case of the olds.

 

*shakes cane*

[mtlchick]

I stand corrected from what I said earlier; the years are started to blend a bit too much for me. 

 

 

"your girlfriend has a girlfriend.  It's Trigonometry"  Relaughing.

 

I actually said "Did he say what I think---yes he did."  Hilarious way of putting it.

[Grace19]

I know that Jamal was written sympathetic and I like him but he was getting boring till now. this episode shows that he doesn't think things through before acting sometimes. Hakeem has never given him a reason to believe he would send his friends after him, to what rob him? he has his fathers support and doesn't need the money; to mess up his recording session? just last week Hakeem visited him and was the one to tell him to write about his neighbors disturbing him, though he was joking about it. its funny that Hakeem was the one that first told him that their parents are trying to pit them against each other and Jamal reassured him that they wont let them. so it doesn't make sense that Jamal would just suspect him without at least asking him. maybe Jamal is a little jealous of luscious love for Hakeem, because those things he said to Hakeem came from some where. for me this episode made Jamal more interesting than the ,'' my dad hates me because I'm gay'', angle.

in my opinion non of the brothers deserve to run the empire for now, they are all flawed. I think this show is trying to show that non of them can do it, but together the brothers can run the company.

I predict that Jamal might end up going darker just like his dad, Andre might grow to care about his family and Hakeem might grow up, become more independent of his father and make a name for himself. I hope the boys would just band together and kick their parents to the curb. as much as I enjoy the characters of Cookie and Luscious , they are both terrible parents and are not good for any of their kids until they learn to love and appreciate them equally.

oh I love Hakeem and Tiana's relationship, its hilarious. I wish that they can become some kind of partners/power couple, they can be good for each other.

[JAYJAY1979]

Watched last nights episode... WOW!

 

The lesson for the day is to verify before taking action.

 

Another layer was added to Anika tonight with meeting her parents.  Even in that brief scene between her and her mother developed Anika while I think Cookie and her sister Tasha had a good rapport as well tonight.

 

Can't wait for Courtney Love to step up to Cookie!

 

Lastly, I can't believe Andre and his wife set it up to have Hakeem's friends rob Jamal.  Even his wife had hesitation for a second about Jamal being hurt, which added an extra layer to her character.

 

Sometimes little scenes and actions such as those can develop a character beyond a character trope.

 

Can't wait for next week.

[Raja]

 

 

Can't wait for Courtney Love to step up to Cookie!

 

 

I was saying to myself that's somebody doing Deborah Harry

[rozen]

I think the awareness expected from Jamal is a little too high. We've seen the evil puppetmasters trying to orchestrate his and Hakeem's downfall, but until Cookie arrived on the scene, it appears he was living a relatively tranquil existence. If Cookie hadn't arrived to be his champion, I expect all of Andre's machinations would be focused on Hakeem, and Jamal would continue to drift happily in the no. 3 spot. He's only become a target very, very recently. There's no reason for him to re-think Hakeem's boys pulling a gun on him right when he's trying to drop a big single. Which was not helped by Hakeem being too much a self-centered ass to take any responsibility for his crew's actions. And what was his first reaction after finding out the news? Call Andre to make sure his single drops first. Not one care about the engineer his idiots shot.

 

I don't know that Cookie would have given Hakeem the benefit of the doubt. I can absolutely seeing her conducing Broom-Beatdown round 2 and maybe believing him after he's on the ground pleading his innocence.

 

I have no idea how Tiana's bisexuality could be a secret if she's making out in public whenever the feeling strikes her. There would have been a million Porsha-like characters sending clips to MTO and Bossip way before now. At least she has Hakeem's back in public, which is more than he deserves. 

 

I find it a little unrealistic that Lucious would leave a rose with no context when he watched his wife deal on behalf of a Big Bad who uses them as his signature. That, and he is totally a character that would have had someone break into her apartment and fill it with 1000x rose vases. Poor Annika. Maybe she'll get pregnant, and Lucious will finally pay attention to her. That seems to be the only thing that matters to him. Interesting that her father's first insult was to call Lucious a thug. Unscrupulous business practices are pretty much the domain of white dudes, Dr. Fancypants.

 

Seems like Cookie's hit was inevitable, if Frank whatever was as dangerous as they were insinuating he was. If it was unexpected, and her relative was thorough, she may have nipped a problem right in the bud. It probably won't turn out that way, though. Funny, she should just tell Lucious, he'd probably have the whole lot of them wiped out without blinking. When she got locked him, he probably had actually start doing some of his own dirty work. He's probably much more dangerous than what she remembers of him before prison. 

[luckyroll3]

Well okay. I'm an original B-girl, but did not get the drip drop/making it rain" connection AT ALL.

 

I was thinking something more literal, like drip drop from one's private parts, and couldn't figure out how that was supposed to be good thing...

That's what I thought it was in reference to, as well, Jade Fox.  He said, "she make that thang go drip drop".  I just assumed *thang* was his...thang.

Or maybe it's her thang?  Shit, I don't know.

[Syndicate]

Still a fan of the show, but yeah... I'm going to need some more motivaton for all of these characters. I get everyone having an agenda, but I still need to like these people though. Last night, I started to dislike the folks I did like. Less plot more character. I know its only 13 eps, but I dont need to be shoked for 42 mins. That's what got Scandal in the mess its in. Until next week.

I often see Scandal being brought up as some kind of an example of a show that started out good but turned into some hot mess over time.  I've actually never seen Scandal, but I'll assume that the show now being a mess is simply a case of mileage varying.  Scandal must be doing SOMETHING right though.  It seems to hold on to substantial ratings and has yet to be cancelled.

[2AT]

sorry, I know the board's moved on by now. You're fine photo fox, no, built ins to exclude anybody ;) more like the phoenetically lazy way people in the same part of the country to talk to each other. Sort of like the way I'd expect one Californian to say to another I'm from the bay, as opposed to I'm from the San Francisco Bay area. I just meant that people tend not to speak in whole and proper geogrpahical markers if they're talking to others from the same city/state. BX is short for the Bronx, but I think the thing we were lightweight debating was how a legit native would refer to it. I have two friends in New Orleans who would cringe to hear it actually pronounced <- that way. Since I'm already at full ramble I may as well tell you about the other boroughs nicknames - some of these make sense, some really just don't: Manhattan is Money Makin' Staten Island is Shaolin, Queens is nothing because nothing nice rhymes with Queens lol. I kid. Queens is Queensboro (creative huh?). The Bronx, the only borough that has the inexplicable distinction of beginning with a the, is the Boogie Down and Brooklyn, the largest by population, has no nickname because it's the shit. Lol, sorry. Brooklyn is known as BK or Crooklyn. I've drifted far enough off topic to be Tom Hanks. byebye!

mom of a 15 year old raises her hand. That's where I heard it. I'll be rocking on the sunporch in case you need me.

Queens does have a nickname. Crazy Ass Queens

Edited February 5, 2015 by 2AT

[BestestAuntEver]

That's what I thought it was in reference to, as well, Jade Fox. He said, "she make that thang go drip drop". I just assumed *thang* was his...thang.

Or maybe it's her thang? Shit, I don't know.

I think it could be eithers drip dropin... thus the rain.

Hell, with needing a cane and yelling at kids to get off my lawn who knows.

Maybe I should go to twitter or ask my daughter?

[Mozelle]

Well okay. I'm an original B-girl, but did not get the drip drop/making it rain" connection AT ALL.

 

I was thinking something more literal, like drip drop from one's private parts, and couldn't figure out how that was supposed to be good thing...

 

I too have a case of the olds.

 

*shakes cane*

 

I--look, I thought the same thing. I really believed that Hakeem was rapping about sex and how the chick could make him...get to the point of release.

[Jade Foxx]

 

Maybe I should go to twitter or ask my daughter?

 

BestestAuntEver PLEASE GET BACK TO US, THAAANKS

[BestestAuntEver]

SMH, I've put way to much energy into this. Drip drop is a double entendre.

They are using pole/private d dancing to talk about sex and fluids.

My daughter wants to know what type of indepth conversations I'm having about this song, with who and why. On top of thinking I'm an old clueless idiot.

Edited February 6, 2015 by BestestAuntEver

[wanderingstar]

So, Lucious left a happy anniversary rose at Cookie's doorstep. Did he forget they're divorced?

[gik910]

 

Still hating Rhonda because I think she's seriously lacking in morals and probably a soul as well.

 

Here is the thing- aside from Cookie (who is a revelation), Rhonda is kind of my favorite.  If her lacking a soul is what makes her so fantastic, I'm down.  From what we know of her- she seems to genuinely love her husband, she takes care of his needs, they seem to have a very active sex life (an open marriage is not for everyone- but if it works for them, rock the hell on you kinksters), she appears to have a handle on her own career (which I don't think is associated with Empire at all), and is super practical.  She is trying to help her husband succeed in inheriting what they both believe is rightfully his (because he is the eldest son, they one with the head for money, etc).  The competition Lucious set up between his own children is ridiculous, but hell if I can't down with a woman who has her hubby's back- by whatever means necessary.  What is so different between her and Cookie really?  Cookie was dealing to get her man what he needed- and she also just had a man murdered.  Rhonda has taken some video, signed off on an idea to send some truly moronic hangers-on over to another studio, and encouraged competition between 2 boys who were already being encouraged (by their parents) to compete.  

[Rick Kitchen]

We really, really need some Rhonda back story.

[maraleia]

One thing I noticed is they do a better job depicting NYC even though they shoot the entire show here in Chicago than The Good Wife does depicting Chicago when they shoot in NYC.

Loved last night's episode and how fleshed out they made Jamal. It's so much better than the usual tropes that get thrown at LGBT characters.

[Congo]

We really, really need some Rhonda back story.

Fox's sub-website The Lyon's Den has an "interview" with Andre and Rhonda. She heads a clothing line that has collaborated with Empire Records for certain things. It also hints that she comes from a lower class Southern background who has fought very hard to get where she is today.

Edited February 6, 2015 by Congo

[GreekGeek]

She'd probably talk to the two guys and ask them how they found out about the watch.

 

A lot has been said already about how the Jamal/Hakeem fight seemed to come out of nowhere, and I agree. I kept waiting for them to stop yelling and punching and realize who else knew about the expensive watch: Andre.

 

I see from next week's previews that Lucious appears to be getting some kind of experimental treatment. It seems he wants two mutually exclusive things from Dr. Calhoun: 1) to be moved to the head of the line for any promising ALS treatments in the works; 2) to be given a phony clean bill of health. This isn't going to end well for the good doc.

[marceline]

Here is the thing- aside from Cookie (who is a revelation), Rhonda is kind of my favorite.  If her lacking a soul is what makes her so fantastic, I'm down.  From what we know of her- she seems to genuinely love her husband, she takes care of his needs, they seem to have a very active sex life (an open marriage is not for everyone- but if it works for them, rock the hell on you kinksters), she appears to have a handle on her own career (which I don't think is associated with Empire at all), and is super practical.  She is trying to help her husband succeed in inheriting what they both believe is rightfully his (because he is the eldest son, they one with the head for money, etc).  The competition Lucious set up between his own children is ridiculous, but hell if I can't down with a woman who has her hubby's back- by whatever means necessary.  What is so different between her and Cookie really?  Cookie was dealing to get her man what he needed- and she also just had a man murdered.  Rhonda has taken some video, signed off on an idea to send some truly moronic hangers-on over to another studio, and encouraged competition between 2 boys who were already being encouraged (by their parents) to compete.  

 

I'm right there with you. At this point the only people qualified to take over Empire are Cookie and Rhonda. I said a few eps ago that Rhonda/Andre are probably the healthiest relationship on this show. They're honest with each other. It seems like she's the only one to know about his bipolar disorder. On a show where everyone is lying and using and killing, Rhonda's an angel.

[Milz]

I think the awareness expected from Jamal is a little too high. We've seen the evil puppetmasters trying to orchestrate his and Hakeem's downfall, but until Cookie arrived on the scene, it appears he was living a relatively tranquil existence. If Cookie hadn't arrived to be his champion, I expect all of Andre's machinations would be focused on Hakeem, and Jamal would continue to drift happily in the no. 3 spot. He's only become a target very, very recently. There's no reason for him to re-think Hakeem's boys pulling a gun on him right when he's trying to drop a big single. Which was not helped by Hakeem being too much a self-centered ass to take any responsibility for his crew's actions. And what was his first reaction after finding out the news? Call Andre to make sure his single drops first. Not one care about the engineer his idiots shot.

 

 

Exactly.

 

So, Lucious left a happy anniversary rose at Cookie's doorstep. Did he forget they're divorced?

 

I think he also forgot he was the one who didn't have the balz to tell Cookie their marriage was over face-to-face and sent little Jamal to do it for him.

[blixie]

Eee Shanesia Davis-Williams, my Marissa/Gary heart grew two sizes! Glad to see a lot of Tasha Smith as Cookie's sister (btw, am I the only one who thinks she looks like Tyra Ferrell?).

 

Poor paranoid Cookie, lays down a hit when Lucious was just tryin to tell her he still LOVES her! I mean I think he has real feelings for Annika, but truth? He needed her daddy for that IPO, and I think he's mostly using her while he sets up the people he really cares about to take over, his children and Cookie.

 

Such a fantastically soapy episode, that Cookie owned once again. I died when she told Tianna. "I don't judge girl, but yous a freak." Hahahaha.

 

I was super sad about Jamal and Hakeem's fight, I just adore Hakeem, he could so easily come across as a punk, but all three boys are just so desperate for Lucious unequivocal approval and unconditional love. I hate what Dre did, but it's clear that his whole family bonds over music, the creation of it, and since he never had the aptitude he was always outside that circle of connection, so I also understand why he's lashing out and undermining his brothers. And he clearly felt super guilty for almost getting Jamal killed.

 

While I feel bad for Hakeem being set up, and yes Jamal should know (or quickly figure out this has Dre all over it) he wasn't behind it, at the same time, does it really matter you have boys in your crew would rob/kill you and your brother for freaking WATCH. Jamal did you a favor son. Still I hope they mend fences and realize this is Dre, 

Edited February 6, 2015 by blixie

[luckyroll3]

SMH, I've put way to much energy into this. Drip drop is a double entendre.

They are using pole/private d dancing to talk about sex and fluids.

My daughter wants to know what type of indepth conversations I'm having about this song, with who and why. On top of thinking I'm an old clueless idiot.

Thanks for taking one for the team!

[Neurochick]

One thing I noticed is they do a better job depicting NYC even though they shoot the entire show here in Chicago than The Good Wife does depicting Chicago when they shoot in NYC.

 

 

Two questions I have. Why don't they just film in NYC (still have the tax breaks here)?  If they have to film in Chicago, why don't they just set the show in Chicago?

[pembroke]

No head offices major music labels are located in Chicago. There may be divisions there, but NYC is where everything really happens. NYC also is a great location to have the feature awards shows, fashion shows, etc. 

 

Chicago offered EMPIRE and other TV series great tax incentives to film there. 

[kdm07]

Just caught up with this episode. A few thoughts:

 

- I legit LOL'd when we were shown Tiana's girlfriend because I knew exactly what it meant. Hakeem is a means to an end for this girl and he had absolutely no leg to stand on after being caught with Naomi Campbell. Anything that brings Hakeem down a peg or two is always a plus for me.

- Lucious & Anika are like watching a car crash happen. It will not end well.

- The robbery was hilarious and I honestly couldn't take it seriously. It reminded me of Jamal's big singing in the street moment and I'm sure the show isn't looking to make me laugh with either of those scenes. It did drive a wedge between Jamal & Hakeem (which I was hoping wouldn't happen because I like their relationship) so there's that.

- Cookie continues to crack me up (and her assistant Porscha too). Her comments on the studio and to the taxi driver had me rolling. Her first misstep and it's a big one which is going to have all kinds of repercussions.

- Lucious is cruel. The way he pits his sons against each other is disgusting and I can't wait for his comeuppance (although some would say a fatal disease is karma in itself). Also, he needs to make up his mind. He either lets Cookie go and stays with Anika or he leaves Anika and gets back together with Cookie (which I personally don't want to happen).

Edited February 6, 2015 by kdm07

[marceline]

SMH, I've put way to much energy into this. Drip drop is a double entendre.

They are using pole/private d dancing to talk about sex and fluids.

My daughter wants to know what type of indepth conversations I'm having about this song, with who and why. On top of thinking I'm an old clueless idiot.

You explain to your daughter that Mama's having grown-up conversations with some brilliant and insightful people and she should mind her own business. LMAO! 

[Raja]

I find it odd that Cookie got out of jail for testifying against the killer of a Fed from when she was originally arrested.  Did no one offer her a deal before?  If they did, what made her decide that to wait ~20 years instead of 10 or 5?  If they didn't, why 20 years later?

 

I was expecting more of a jailhouse snitch situation where she learned something from a cellmate.

More than that I have an out for Cookie, assuming Philly police doesn't find out about the murder.She needs one of those attorneys out of work since Law & Order went off the air. She did 17 years and the US Attorney did not comply with discovery. How else could a murder of a federal agent being part of a drug case be hidden. Did she confess to save legal fees needed to jump start the empire?

Edited February 6, 2015 by Raja

[DollEyes]

 Another great one. More fast-paced than last week's episode, but still compelling. All shows tell the audience whom to root for/against and while it sometimes bugs me, I'm down with it here. Lucius was not only up to his old tricks, he even invented a couple of new ones, whether it was getting Anthony Hamilton to perform for his proposal to Anika or his coercing Anika's father Dr. Calhoun to fake Lucius' diagnosis so that Lucius' IPO deal would succeed in order to make Anika a billionaire when Lucius dies, or so he claims. That Dr. Calhoun loves Anika and would do anything for her is admirable, but not when it included trusting Lucius or giving him any semblance of power over the family. Lucius has already cheated on Anika several times, therefore if Lucius is willing to betray her one way, then he will in others. Dr. Calhoun's agreeing to Lucius' terms also shows a lack of faith in Anika. Despite her naivete' with Titan's people which almost got her killed in last week's episode, Anika is a strong and smart woman who can take care of herself without any man's help, especially from Lucius and/or her father. If Anika leans what her father has done and why he did it, chances are she'll be pissed, not proud. I don't know what's worse-Lucius' and Dr. Calhoun's assumption that Anika wants to be a billionaire in the first place or that she can't do it without them. Between his infidelity and his scheme with Dr. Calhoun, Lucius has proven that he's no more worthy of Anika than he was of Cookie. Then there was Lucius' pressuring Andre to get Hakeem's video finished just to punish Jamal despite it being over budget and his advice to Hakeem about how to handle Tianna and her girlfriend by calling it "trigonometry." Knowing Hakeem's taste in women, "trick-onometry" is more like it. Of course, there's Lucius' never-ending dance with Cookie, from his initial refusal to give her a seat on the label's Board of Directors to his unannounced visits to her place. Even Lucius' giving Cookie a rose on their anniversary lead to trouble. In fairness, Lucius didn't know what Cookie had done, but when it comes to Cookie, Lucius sends more mixed signals than a teen pop star.

 

  Re Hakeem, if character is measured by the company one keeps, then Hakeem's screwed and not in the good way. Hakeem's posse are just a bunch of liars, thugs and scrubs-and untalented ones, at that. I wouldn't call them "full of shit" because shit is useful sometimes. Tianna is the one huge exception to the rule because she was a star before Hakeem and she'll be one after him. Tianna's bisexuality is a surprise but to her credit, instead of being ashamed of it, she took Cookie's advice and is not only embracing it, she put Hakeem on blast for his hypocrisy, since he's got a sidepiece of his own, plus as a previous poster said, Tianna's relationship with India is way more "normal" than Hakeem and Camilla's will ever be. The only time I felt bad for Hakeem was during the fight between him and Jamal. Hakeem's not my favorite, but he doesn't deserve to be set up by Andre. Jamal's attacking Hakeem was wrong, but at least it was based on an honest mistake, not a dishonest one.

 

  Speaking of dishonest, that leads me to Andre and Rhonda. As they proved again this week, dishonesty is the least of their sins. They may be honest with each other, but they bullshit everybody else and this time it was Hakeem and Jamal who got caught in the crossfire, figuratively and literally. Andre and Rhonda's arranging the attack on Jamal's recording session was bad enough, but framing Hakeem for it, causing the rift between Hakeem and Jamal and almost getting Jamal killed was, like Andre and Rhonda's marriage, too fucked-up on too many levels. Andre probably already knew that two members of Hakeem's crew have criminal records including violent crimes, so Andre should have known or guessed that they were packing. What did Andre think that they were gonna use-water pistols? It's a good thing Jamal's producer was more strapped than they were. Any producer who calls their spot "Ghetto-Ass Studios" and owns at least one sawed-off shotgun is no joke. Andre and Rhonda may not have technically killed anyone yet, but I wouldn't put it past them. Karma will/shoul make a Happy Meal out of Andre & Rhonda way sooner than later, I predict.

Edited February 7, 2015 by DollEyes

[40Love]

Seems like Cookie's hit was inevitable, if Frank whatever was as dangerous as they were insinuating he was. If it was unexpected, and her relative was thorough, she may have nipped a problem right in the bud. 

 

Right, because even though the Grand Jury is secret I don't think they would be able to keep Cookie's identity secret. Don't the accused have a legal right to know who their accuser is. That killer would eventually know Cookie was testifying against him and that would instantly put a target on her back... and no doubt a target on the backs of family and friends. 

 

There were a lot of good moments in the episode for me... but my favorite was the studio owner brandishing his shot gun and asking if it should be a stand-off or a massacre! LOL! I don't know it was just the way he said "It's your choice!". Heh!

 

Interesting that her father's first insult was to call Lucious a thug. Unscrupulous business practices are pretty much the domain of white dudes, Dr. Fancypants.

 

Yeah, exactly. If Lucius is a thug for suggesting such an unsavory act. What does it make Dr. Fancypants for agreeing to do it (without very much coercion)??

Edited February 6, 2015 by 40Love

[DocTerv]

I totter off my Hoveround and, after spending a few moments looking for my bifocals, say thanks to everyone who kindly translates for the olds. Because I'm LOVIN' this show and would happily watch Cookie and Porscha ride around in a car for hours just commenting on random topics. I didn't get the "makin' it rain" (I do know that one!) connection with drip, drop, drippity, drop but rather thought "you should get some penicillin for that young man".

[kdm07]

Re Hakeem, if character is measured by the company one keeps, then Hakeem's screwed and not in the good way.Hakeem's posse are just a bunch of liars, thugs and scrubs-and untalented ones, at that. I wouldn't call them "full of shit" because shit is useful sometimes.

Quoting for emphasis. Hilarious stuff DollEyes and 100% true.

[Jazzy24]

Jamal is at least smart not to wear his expensive watch or anything in that enviroment.

[blixie]

 

Hakeem's posse are just a bunch of liars, thugs and scrubs-and untalented ones, at that.

I think the core three seem like good people, including the androgynous member played by Raven Simone's girlfriend. I was honestly a little confused where the more hard core banger types came from, since I didn't recall them hanging with Hakeem, before this episode, but it's possible they've been floating in the background and didn't register.

 

But to the point, Hakee is not discriminating about those who surround him, I totally agree which is why I liked Jamal punching him, I think he wants him to grow up and own up. At the same time it was still a dick move since he knows Hakeem is too stupid to put something like this in motion on purpose, but he still thinks Hakeem DID do it? C'mon Jamal, think on it a bit kid, it'll click that it doesn't add up.

Edited February 6, 2015 by blixie

[Grace19]

if my brother accuses me of sending thugs after him to rob or hurt me I would be so mad that at that moment I wouldn't think of anything else. Just as someone previously said. Jamal is written sympathetic so people are always ready to defend him, from the pov of the characters and not as the audience, Hakeem is Self-centered some times but there is no reason as far as we've seen for Jamal to believe his brother would do that to him, we've been shown that Hakeem love his dad and brother and respects them, he listens to them. I know how it feels when someone close to you accuses you of doing something horrible without giving you the benefit of doubt. its not a good feeling. And whats up with the things Jamal said to his brother about being dumb and just his dad's boy, where did that come from? was that the anger talking or have he always resented his brother?

[Rick Kitchen]

 

The robbery was hilarious and I honestly couldn't take it seriously. It reminded me of Jamal's big singing in the street moment and I'm sure the show isn't looking to make me laugh with either of those scenes. It did drive a wedge between Jamal & Hakeem (which I was hoping wouldn't happen because I like their relationship) so there's that.

 

Actually I took that as actually being intended to be funny to show just what sort of posers Hakeem's posse is,

[tmelange]

Speaking of Andre, I found the interactions between him and Lucious particularly revealing in this episode. I got the impression that Lucious knows exactly how to push Andre's buttons. It's not that Lucious doesn't value Andre or know what he's good for -- after all, Andre is the company's CFO, sits on the board and is handling the IPO, and Andre made a comment to Rhonda that Lucious freaks out if he leaves the office these days. Lucious simply knows that Andre feels inadequate, so when he wants to get him to do something, he uses the "I don't know what you're good for," line. He manipulates him, which was why that scene when Andre comes back to Lucious to say he's found a way to allocate the money for Hakeem's video and Lucious motions him over to his side so Andre can sit next to him was so telling of their relationship. Lucious has Andre and Hakeem on a string, but Andre is crazy and is more likely to do something unpredictable.

 

Meanwhile, I agree with the poster up thread that Hakeem has an air of naivete about him. He seems easily hurt and oblivious. His response to being told that some of his friends tried to rob his brother and shot one of his musicians is, "Why are you still trying to cut a single when I'm about to blow up with an album?" lol

[jsbt]

I think the core three seem like good people, including the androgynous member played by Raven Simone's girlfriend. I was honestly a little confused where the more hard core banger types came from, since I didn't recall them hanging with Hakeem, before this episode, but it's possible they've been floating in the background and didn't register.

 

I think that dude who looks like bootleg DJ Qualls is stealth trouble, though.

Edited February 6, 2015 by jsbt

[Ohwell]

I was confused because there was the producer in the ghetto ass studio with a bald head and green shirt, and I could have sworn there was another guy (a friend of his?) with a bald head and green shirt.  They looked like twins.

[fivestone]

Had he talked to his mother about it, she probably would have set him straight.  I mean Hakeem's a poser, a spoiled brat; I could never see him setting up Jamal and I have a feeling Cookie would know that.  She'd probably talk to the two guys and ask them how they found out about the watch.  

 

I have a feeling that Annika probably worked for Empire, and that's probably how she met Lucious.  Lucious saw Annika, knew he had to change his image and felt that Annika was the perfect person for that.  He still loves Cookie, but she's too rough around the edges for the life that Lucious wants.  

 

I never can get why people think that being "boogie" is a bad thing.  I mean even if a person is "ghetto" they'd want their children to do better, have more than they did.  I love Cookie, but I've known women like her and they're exhausting.  

 

I think because there is a middle-of-the-road option that gets overlooked. There's a stratum between 'hoodrat' and 'boojie'. Boojie is not just having finer things, it's doing better and looking down disdainfully on those who don't. I want my kids to grow up to be self-sufficient, kind, empathetic people - not self-sufficient,haughty, and showy.

[blixie]

 

I think because there is a middle-of-the-road option that gets overlooked. There's a stratum between 'hoodrat' and 'boojie'.

 

I agree, but I'm LOL because perhaps the middle way is BOOGIE. It's like Kendrick being half way between Slick Rick and Common (kidding Common is not that bougie)! Man I loved Slick Rick.

 

[Happytobehere]

Cookie is A Boss and I am loving it and her.

Noticed hat Rhonda expressed concern over Jamal's well-being but Andre didn't care. Maybe the roles they are playing are actually MacBeth and Lady Macbethh with the one you thought was the evil one LM is actually the more humane of the two.

Luscious so set Cookie up to take the fall, possibly in exchange for the record company, hence the jab from Judd Nelson about how things really should be named for Cookie.

[Soup333]

Speaking of Andre, I found the interactions between him and Lucious particularly revealing in this episode. I got the impression that Lucious knows exactly how to push Andre's buttons. It's not that Lucious doesn't value Andre or know what he's good for -- after all, Andre is the company's CFO, sits on the board and is handling the IPO, and Andre made a comment to Rhonda that Lucious freaks out if he leaves the office these days. Lucious simply knows that Andre feels inadequate, so when he wants to get him to do something, he uses the "I don't know what you're good for," line. He manipulates him, which was why that scene when Andre comes back to Lucious to say he's found a way to allocate the money for Hakeem's video and Lucious motions him over to his side so Andre can sit next to him was so telling of their relationship. Lucious has Andre and Hakeem on a string, but Andre is crazy and is more likely to do something unpredictable.

 

 

I agree completely. With Hakeem, who Lucious has said is just like Cookie, Lucious is much more the spoiling parent. Yes, he did take those tickets away from him, but he freaking tripled his video budget once baby boy gave his little spiel about stepping up. I think all three sons have their parent's ambition and quick tempers.

 

I don't think Andre and Rhonda have a healthy relationship at all. That thought blows my mind actually. And I don't buy ALL of Andre's concern when he heard that there was a shooting at Jamal's studio. Yes, he probably was surprised that it went down like that on some level (and he was on the phone with Hakeem, so he had to show some concern) but what did he think was going to happen really? They were going to go in there and ask for the watch? Come on. He seems more than a little unstable to me and out of all of the sons I actually pity him the most. He'll never have the relationship with is parents that he should have had (can't say that he wants because I don't know what the hell). He'll never measure up to Lucious and Cookie is way more concerned with her relationships with her younger sons. 

[Rae Spellman]

 

And I don't buy ALL of Andre's concern when he heard that there was a shooting at Jamal's studio.

 

Well he should have been concerned. For himself! Is Jamal so small time that the studio shooting won't get media coverage? Surely Hakeem's crew shooting up Jamal's crew isn't good press for Empire. And, Lucious might not be okay with Dre endangering Jamal's life. 

 

 

 

[aradia22]

I love this show. I've been watching almost all the musical shows that have been coming out recently from Glee to Smash to Nashville. Genre isn't too important to me. Judging Empire against the rest, I think they do the best job of integrating music into the show. Nashville is probably the closest match in terms of melodrama and the way they use music but Empire just does such a better job. It's so smooth. Why did it take so long to make one of these shows about the music business actually about the music business? I'm sure it's going to go off the rails but I'm enjoying it for now.

 

Taraji P. Henson is killing it. I don't care that deeply about any other character but she's enough. Jamal has moments but I don't actually care about his journey/motivations too much. 

 

The kids in the flashbacks are adorable. Speaking of that, I feel like Andre is the weakest of the three brothers right now. I don't know if the little Andre that hid his father's gun would have grown up into this Andre. He has the craziest relationship with his wife and he's more of a plot device than anything else. I mean, he's a gorgeous plot device but still a plot device. I hope they bring some more humanity to his character. Also, dare I say that a show that would make a Mama Rose joke was talking about a famous Phantom when he showed up at Cookie's door with the rose?

 

I feel like they're jerking us around a bit with the Cookie/Luscious thing. It's not a slow build. They clearly have chemistry but they keep going back and forth with the will they/won't they of whether they'll get back together. It's not even like stuff happens to pull them apart. It's just like the writers forgot about the progress of last week but they like to keep teasing us. 

 

I was sure Eva (shout out to my Awkward. fans) was bad news as soon as she showed up.

[DollEyes]

  Re Jamal, his gamble is already paying off, if "Keep Your Money (Dollar Bill)" is any indication. Hakeem's song is good, but Jamal's song is better because it's natural, raw and deep. Hakeem's song is a nice club banger, but Jamal's has style and substance. The music came from the streets; the lyrics from the heart. Besides his song, Jamal also deserves props for standing up to the punks from Hakeem's crew who tried to jack his recording session. By getting in their faces when one of them pointed a gun in his face, Jamal showed that "gay" and "coward" aren't mutually exclusive. Jamal's only mistakes were believing that Hakeem was responsible for the attack and hitting him. Jamal should have given Hakeem the benefit of the doubt and shouldn't have punched him. The only bright sides to Jamal's actions on that score are that they prove that he's human, not "perfect." Looks like Lucius' cruelty has influenced Jamal more than Jamal thought or wants to admit, unfortunately for him. However, Jamal and Hakeem's fight wasn't all their fault. They were just pawns in Andre & Rhonda's latest scheme to control Empire. If/when Jamal and Hakeem find out about what Andre and Rhonda did to them, I predict that they will give Andre & Rhonda the payback they richly deserve. if Lucius and Cookie find out, there will/should be Hell to pay. As much as Lucius hates Jamal's being gay and as much as I hate Lucius, even I don't think that Lucius wants Jamal dead.  As for Cookie, to say that her wrath on anyone who hurt Jamal would be frightening would be an understatement.

 

 

I think the core three [in Hakeem's crew] seem like good people including the androgynous member played by Raven Symone's girlfriend. I was honestly more confused about where the more hard core banger types came from, since I didn't recall them hanging with Hakeem, before this episode, but it's possible they've been floating in the background and didn't register.

 

   Re the main three, they're not that great IMO if they're hanging out with no-account assholes like the ones who raided Jamal's recording session.  However, I do agree that the latter are probably just lurkers until now.

 

 Once again, Cookie never ceases to amaze. For one thing, her ability to multi-task (Managing Tianna, doing damage control, collabos on Jamal's song, testifying in court and ordering a hit) is breathtaking, to say the least. Her biggest mistake was the hit. However, despite that, I don't consider Cookie to be a murderer because at least she not only didn't mean to kill Frank's henchman, she actually tried to stop it, unlike Lucius, who killed Bunkie in cold blood. That last moment was a shocker if ever I saw one. When it happened, I thought, "Oh, Cookie-what have you done now?" which is my usual response to what Cookie does, but this time, I'm not only worried about her, I'm afraid that Frank will find out about what happened and target the boys, especially Jamal, as payback.

[ParadoxLost]

I feel like they're jerking us around a bit with the Cookie/Luscious thing. It's not a slow build. They clearly have chemistry but they keep going back and forth with the will they/won't they of whether they'll get back together. It's not even like stuff happens to pull them apart. It's just like the writers forgot about the progress of last week but they like to keep teasing us. 

 

I have a different take on this.  I don't think the focus is whether Cookie and Lucious will get back together.  With his health in decline, Lucious is entirely focused on the IPO and how he secures his legacy.  Its why he is focused on Hakeem's music.  Its why he asked boo boo kitty to marry him.  Cookie is a reminder of who he used to be and the façade he is trying to present to the world slips when he spends too much time alone with her.  They don't progress because Lucious, more than anything, wants to maintain the façade because of the 'Empire' and the ALS; so he pretends that everything is all in the past every time they part.  I suspect that the more drawn to Cookie that Lucious becomes, the more its going to feel like they are backsliding every week because Lucious is fighting it.  He's choosing the business over Cookie.  I imagine that he's been doing that since Cookie went to jail, only she's out now and he can't just not visit.

 

A lot has been said about Taraji and her portrayal of Cookie which is fabulous.  But Terrence Howard is pretty great as well.  He slips into an entirely different character every time Lucious and Cookie are alone for any length of time but its seamless.