S01.E05: Dangerous Bonds

[Mrs OldManBalls]

 

Anyhow, I loved the "Day in the Life of Cookie". She and Jack Bauer would make a great team.

 

I would watch the hell out of that. 

[aradia22]

 

Jamal's only mistakes were believing that Hakeem was responsible for the attack and hitting him. Jamal should have given Hakeem the benefit of the doubt and shouldn't have punched him.

I don't blame Jamal because Hakeem has that fictional character syndrome where you don't clear up issues. Instead of proving that he didn't send those guys he instead responded with something to the effect of "I don't need to worry about you" which provoked Jamal and didn't make him seem any less guilty. Those moments are always fun. There's always that pause where a character could say something to clear up the whole mess but then what would the writers do... not prolong a storyline because people refuse to just have an honest conversation? That's crazy talk.

 

I suspect that the more drawn to Cookie that Lucious becomes, the more its going to feel like they are backsliding every week because Lucious is fighting it.  He's choosing the business over Cookie.

I think that's a good interpretation but I wish they'd make that more apparent because right now it just seems inconsistent. To me, it's more like Terrence and Taraji's chemistry is so strong that they're overplaying it. I want to see obstacles that push them apart or him struggling more with his attraction to her/attraction to the life/relationship they used to have.

 

Also, am I alone in thinking Taraji is so much prettier than Boo Boo Kitty?

[biakbiak]

"I don't need to worry about you" which provoked Jamal and didn't make him seem any less guilty

Hakeem also physically provoked Jamal by shoving him before Jamal punched him.

[Pogojoco]

As soon as I saw the rose, I knew it was from Lucius. Just because he was all wistful about their anniversary in the previous scenes. Of course, Cookie didn't watch the previous scenes and lost her mind.  

 

TaRhonda Jones will be the break out star of this show. You can't teach that kind of timing and any time she's on screen, I'm wondering what she's going to do. She pulls the camera to her. Portia is just the best. 

 

Taraji is a really fantastic actor. She and Howard are both really good in this and the chemistry is great. They just seem to know each other.  So I'm grateful to the show as a showcase for Henson- cause she's playing the hell out of Cookie. 

 

I also found the studio owner chasing everyone out with a shot gun to be pretty great. He was just not having it. 

 

 

Also, am I alone in thinking Taraji is so much prettier than Boo Boo Kitty?

No.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Pogojoco

[blixie]

 

he instead responded with something to the effect of "I don't need to worry about you" which provoked Jamal and didn't make him seem any less guilty.

 

Well first he looked surprised and hurt at the accusation and said "how could you think I would do that to you, you're my brother" that was fairly heartfelt, but yes still doesn't really unequivocally establish that he did not do it, but I think it's consistent with him being easily hurt and lashing out which is why he shifted immediately into posturing about their professional rivalry which only made him look more guilty.

[Jipijapa]

Do we know the proper spelling of Portia/Porsche/Porsha's name, by the way?  (Please let it be "Porsche")

[CofCinci]

Do we know the proper spelling of Portia/Porsche/Porsha's name, by the way?  (Please let it be "Porsche")

Fox.com uses Porsha.

[Ohwell]

Also, am I alone in thinking Taraji is so much prettier than Boo Boo Kitty?

I don't think Cookie is necessarily prettier than BBK, but I think Cookie looks more feminine.  Maybe it's the short hair, but at certain camera angles, BBK looks manly because she has such a strong jaw line.  The short hair does no favors, IMO. 

[wanderingstar]

I also found the studio owner chasing everyone out with a shot gun to be pretty great. He was just not having it.

 

I liked him and found myself hoping we'd see more of his character. Maybe Jamal will record another song there?

[Raja]

Do we know the proper spelling of Portia/Porsche/Porsha's name, by the way?  (Please let it be "Porsche")

Considering her social security number I am sure she has used all three spellings  and more

Edited February 8, 2015 by Raja

[Pogojoco]

I liked him and found myself hoping we'd see more of his character. Maybe Jamal will record another song there?

"We can call this a standoff or we can make this a multiple homicide. You pick." 

 

And he also used the term "The Boogie Down." 

Edited February 8, 2015 by Pogojoco

[appledumpling]

 

Cookie Monster!

 

Love this "term of endearment" it so fitting.

[SnarkKitty]

Since I'm already at full ramble I may as well tell you about the other boroughs nicknames - some of these make sense, some really just don't:  Manhattan is Money Makin'   Staten Island is Shaolin, Queens is nothing because nothing nice rhymes with Queens lol.  I kid.  Queens is Queensboro (creative huh?).  The Bronx, the only borough that has the inexplicable distinction of beginning with a the, is the Boogie Down and Brooklyn, the largest by population, has no nickname because it's the shit.   Lol, sorry.  Brooklyn is known as BK or Crooklyn.    I've drifted far enough off topic to be Tom Hanks.  byebye!

 

I always thought Queens' nickname was "Damn, I gotta go all the way out there?" (I kid!).  Wu-Tang Clan ain't nothin to fuck wit! Sorry. Just a Money Makin' being ig'nant.

 

I, too believed Drip Drop perhaps required a hand towel (if not a trip to the free clinic!) based on the context.

 

One thing I noticed is they do a better job depicting NYC even though they shoot the entire show here in Chicago than The Good Wife does depicting Chicago when they shoot in NYC.

 

See, I always watch and think they do a TERRIBLE job of depicting NYC. I haven't seen a street scene yet that looks authentic, yellow cab withstanding. Not the Bronx, not wherever that GAS is supposed to be, the block the loft is on, Empire's offices, nothing. 

 

Eee Shanesia Davis-Williams, my Marissa/Gary heart grew two sizes! Glad to see a lot of Tasha Smith as Cookie's sister (btw, am I the only one who thinks she looks like Tyra Ferrell?).

 

Nope. It's a thing.

[blixie]

 

Nope. It's a thing.

 

Oh good I'm not crazy! I was so bummed when she dropped out of working, and was frustrated she was never given the chance to shine as a lead actress. When I saw Tasha in Jump the Broom it took me at least 10 minutes to dismiss the feeling it had to be Tyra. I'm extremely fond of Tasha too so I hope her role expands on Empire, Cookie needs  a support system beyond the hilarious Porsha.

[Happytobehere]

 

I don't think Andre and Rhonda have a healthy relationship at all. That thought blows my mind actually. And I don't buy ALL of Andre's concern when he heard that there was a shooting at Jamal's studio. Yes, he probably was surprised that it went down like that on some level (and he was on the phone with Hakeem, so he had to show some concern) but what did he think was going to happen really? They were going to go in there and ask for the watch? Come on. He seems more than a little unstable to me and out of all of the sons I actually pity him the most. He'll never have the relationship with is parents that he should have had (can't say that he wants because I don't know what the hell). He'll never measure up to Lucious and Cookie is way more concerned with her relationships with her younger sons.

I partially agree with your assessment, but I don't think Cookie is less interested in Andre, remember the look on her face and how fiercely she hugged Andre when she first saw him. Not only was the hug not reciprocated, something I'm sure Cookie noticed, Andre immediately revealed the truth of who and what he had become. So unlike Luscious, Cookie actually sees Andre. Cookie also stated that she never wanted to force Andre to accept her as a mother if he did not feel that way in his heart. Aside from this, is the fact that Andre was what, 8-10 years old when Cookie went away, but he consciously decided to never see or contact her while she was in jail. So for at least 18 years, if you factor in the trial time, Andre decided that he was better off without a mother. While I don't blame him for how he felt, you then can't say that Cookie isn't interested in him, like she is interested in Jamal and Hakeem. I think she loves Andre, but just as is the case with Hakeem, she knows her love is not returned. Aside from the gay angle and Luscious's abuse of Jamal, Cookie for lack of a better word favors Jamal because he clearly loves her. If either of the other boys responded to Cookie the way Jamal has, I have no doubt, she would love them back with the same fierceness she displays toward Jamal.

[dirtypop90]

I partially agree with your assessment, but I don't think Cookie is less interested in Andre, remember the look on her face and how fiercely she hugged Andre when she first saw him. Not only was the hug not reciprocated, something I'm sure Cookie noticed, Andre immediately revealed the truth of who and what he had become. So unlike Luscious, Cookie actually sees Andre. Cookie also stated that she never wanted to force Andre to accept her as a mother if he did not feel that way in his heart. Aside from this, is the fact that Andre was what, 8-10 years old when Cookie went away, but he consciously decided to never see or contact her while she was in jail. So for at least 18 years, if you factor in the trial time, Andre decided that he was better off without a mother. While I don't blame him for how he felt, you then can't say that Cookie isn't interested in him, like she is interested in Jamal and Hakeem. I think she loves Andre, but just as is the case with Hakeem, she knows her love is not returned. Aside from the gay angle and Luscious's abuse of Jamal, Cookie for lack of a better word favors Jamal because he clearly loves her. If either of the other boys responded to Cookie the way Jamal has, I have no doubt, she would love them back with the same fierceness she displays toward Jamal.

 

I disagree because Cookie also makes more effort with Hakeem than Andre, and Hakeem has been openly hostile towards her. Andre at least hugged her and went in for the hug. Hakeem won't let Cookie touch him and verbally disrespects her. Not to mention Cookie went to see Hakeem and Jamal after she got out, but Andre had to go see her. She didn't even bother with him.  It's glaring to me when we constantly hear her saying she wants to make things right with her boys and speaking about how much time she missed with them, but we have never actually seen Cookie attempt to bond with Andre like she has Hakeem or Jamal. not even once. nor are we given any explanation as to why she hasn't tried to fix things with andre.

Edited February 9, 2015 by dirtypop90

[tmelange]

I think Cookie's relationship with Andre has more to do with his repudiation of her than Cookie favoring the other boys over him. Andre was old enough to know that both his mom and dad were involved in illegal activities, yet when Cookie takes the fall, Andre doesn't bother to maintain a relationship with her. In their first interaction, Cookie says she understands that he didn't want to be associated with her while he was "making something of himself." It also seems that she knows that he only comes to her when he wants something, as she mentioned in this week's episode. On top of that, Cookie seems to have that old-school mom mentality that looks askance on her black boy marrying a white girl (the opposite of her). And to top it off, Andre went back and told his wife what his mom said about her, showing that he has no loyalty towards his mom at all.

 

Add to that the number of times Andre acted so...weird. In the elevator when Kid FoFo was going off on Cookie, Andre didn't do anything to defend her or even walk out of the elevator with her in solidarity. Likewise, when Cookie was crying over Bunkie, Andre didn't make a move to comfort her. He acts like a stranger, yet he's the one who has the most direct memory of her. He should be able to realize that his father is as guilty as his mom, and she was the one who was punished to enable the men in the family to move forward. I'm not surprised Cookie is a little standoffish toward him. Has he even invited her over to his house for dinner?

 

I think Cookie's relationship with Jamal is on another level not only because he maintained a relationship with her while in prison but also because she feels he needs her protection. Nothing kicks most mothers' protective instincts into gear than people saying a child is not good enough or deficient. Jamal is also the only one who hugs her and treats her compassionately. That scene in this episode when Cookie makes it back to the studio and she hugs Jamal -- Andre would never do that. Whenever I see my mom, I at least kiss her cheek in greeting. Have we ever seen Andre treat Cookie like his mom?

 

Hakeem is a whole different story. He was taken from Cookie when he was a baby. It's not unusual for a mom to be particularly obsessive about a baby taken out of her arms when he was an infant. It's different when you're separated from children that you can at least explain your absence to as compared to an infant.

Edited February 9, 2015 by tmelange

[aradia22]

 

I disagree because Cookie also makes more effort with Hakeem than Andre, and Hakeem has been openly hostile towards her. Andre at least hugged her and went in for the hug. Hakeem won't let Cookie touch him and verbally disrespects her.

I agree with what others have said and I'll also point out that Andre has come back, at least a little. She has to do more with Hakeem because he's completely rejecting her whereas Andre has an albeit distant relationship and does reach out when he needs help. The bridge is already built there. I don't know how they're going to play it, or how many seasons Empire will ultimately get but I hope everything doesn't get destroyed. I think it could be fascinating to see everyone acting as a cohesive family unit and the tensions within the family that way. I thought we'd get more of that at first but everyone seems to kind of be splitting into their own plotlines. Basically, whenever Lucious makes them all get together for a meeting or a celebration? That's what I'd like to see more of... not necessarily now, but eventually. 

[photo fox]

On top of that, Cookie seems to have that old-school mom mentality that looks askance on her black boy marrying a white girl (the opposite of her). And to top it off, Andre went back and told his wife what his mom said about her, showing that he has no loyalty towards his mom at all.

I'm with him there. When you're married, your primary loyalty belongs to your spouse, not your parent, IMO. Especially given how vocal Cookie is with her thoughts, I can see why Andre would give Rhonda a heads-up as to what she could expect when she met his mother.

[luckyroll3]

 

Oh good I'm not crazy! I was so bummed when she dropped out of working, and was frustrated she was never given the chance to shine as a lead actress. When I saw Tasha in Jump the Broom it took me at least 10 minutes to dismiss the feeling it had to be Tyra. I'm extremely fond of Tasha too so I hope her role expands on Empire, Cookie needs  a support system beyond the hilarious Porsha.

What's even more interesting to me is that Tasha is a twin, if I'm remembering correctly.  So there's 3 of them out there!  I love Tasha's role as Cookie's sister.  Hopefully they'll have her character move to the city so that she has more onscreen time.

[tmelange]

Andre could have given his wife a heads up without telling her exactly what Cookie said. Relaying exact words was unnecessary, and Rhonda hardly needed a warning anyway. Her position seems pretty secure. A guy can be loyal to his wife without tattling on his mother. Marriage doesn't mean you have to relay every private conversation word-for-word. The fact that he went that route tells Cookie exactly what to expect from him, so he can't complain if she treats him the way he set them up to be.

[blixie]

 

but also because she feels he needs her protection.

Yeah I think there is sense from Cookie that Jamal/Hakeem need her, and their needs center around what she knows best: the music business (especially the creative side). I also think she's handling Dre more or less right, from her perspective he's accomplished and "set" he's married, he is on the board at Empire, and she knows he made a choice to not visit her, in situations like this reunions of adult children with wayward parents who were absentee for whatever reason, it's best to let the child set the pace of re-engagement. Like I said I can see her thinking he has his wife and that it's not her place to go meddling up in his life after all these years vs. Jamal whom kept a relationship with her  while in prison, who wants her help, and Hakeem who is her baby who she barely knows, and she can't help reaching out to. Still we haven't seen her up in Hakeem's  business since she told him she couldn't force things, again that's good sense giving him the space he needs to come to her. And when Andre has come to her she's done what she could, but it's true that neither she nor Lucious really understands him. I like this whole family, even Lucious who is kind of a scumbag,  has his endearing or vulnerable moments with Cookie/BBK.

[Syndicate]

I agree with what others have said and I'll also point out that Andre has come back, at least a little. She has to do more with Hakeem because he's completely rejecting her whereas Andre has an albeit distant relationship and does reach out when he needs help. The bridge is already built there. I don't know how they're going to play it, or how many seasons Empire will ultimately get but I hope everything doesn't get destroyed. I think it could be fascinating to see everyone acting as a cohesive family unit and the tensions within the family that way. I thought we'd get more of that at first but everyone seems to kind of be splitting into their own plotlines. Basically, whenever Lucious makes them all get together for a meeting or a celebration? That's what I'd like to see more of... not necessarily now, but eventually. 

Oh I'm absolutely convinced that the best way to make these characters, as well as the show itself, work, is to bring a better focus on family/business dynamics.  It's why I'm so hoping that they decide to bring on Wesley Snipes and several others to form a new secondary family to battle the Lyons.  I think this would turn the show into pure gold more than it is already.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Syndicate

[Milz]

Oh I'm absolutely convinced that the best way to make these characters, as well as the show itself, work, is to bring a better focus on family/business dynamics.  It's why I'm so hoping that they decide to bring on Wesley Snipes and several others to form a new secondary family to battle the Lyons.  I think this would turn the show into pure gold more than it is already.

 

I thought Wesley Snipes was still in jail for tax evasion?

[Syndicate]

I thought Wesley Snipes was still in jail for tax evasion?

Nope!  Released and probably very eager to get back into the biz.  This show had apparently considered him for the role of Lucious, but Terrence Howard won out.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Syndicate

[tmelange]

I think Wesley Snipes got out of jail...last year? Of course, adding Wesley might just take the cray over the top. I don't know if he and Terrence can be on the same set without the crazy overtaking the show.

[Milz]

Good to know he's out of jail.

[Raja]

Nope!  Released and probably very ready to get back into the biz.  This show had apparently considered him for the role of Lucious, but Terrence Howard won out.

Wesley Snipes was one of the newest batch of Expendables. Stallone and company broke him out of prison to open the movie

[dirtypop90]

I think Cookie's relationship with Andre has more to do with his repudiation of her than Cookie favoring the other boys over him. Andre was old enough to know that both his mom and dad were involved in illegal activities, yet when Cookie takes the fall, Andre doesn't bother to maintain a relationship with her. In their first interaction, Cookie says she understands that he didn't want to be associated with her while he was "making something of himself." It also seems that she knows that he only comes to her when he wants something, as she mentioned in this week's episode. On top of that, Cookie seems to have that old-school mom mentality that looks askance on her black boy marrying a white girl (the opposite of her). And to top it off, Andre went back and told his wife what his mom said about her, showing that he has no loyalty towards his mom at all.

 

Add to that the number of times Andre acted so...weird. In the elevator when Kid FoFo was going off on Cookie, Andre didn't do anything to defend her or even walk out of the elevator with her in solidarity. Likewise, when Cookie was crying over Bunkie, Andre didn't make a move to comfort her. He acts like a stranger, yet he's the one who has the most direct memory of her. He should be able to realize that his father is as guilty as his mom, and she was the one who was punished to enable the men in the family to move forward. I'm not surprised Cookie is a little standoffish toward him. Has he even invited her over to his house for dinner?

 

 

 

I completely disagree with all of this. I know everyone loves Cookie, but Cookie is the one who messed up and is the reason she was separated from her kids. So she should be trying to reach out to him, inviting him over for dinner to try to form a relationship with him etc. Andre isn't the one who was sent away for selling drugs that was Cookie. She chose to partake in illegal activities that ended with her being put away and not involved in her kids lives for 17 years so she should be the one taking the initiative to repair those relationships. It's not on Andre.

 

I don't see why Cookie would be standoffish towards Andre. Cookie is the one responsible for the state of their relationship because she took the huge risk 17 years ago and decided helping Lucious becoming a rap star was more important than keeping her hands clean

[Syndicate]

I completely disagree with all of this. I know everyone loves Cookie, but Cookie is the one who messed up and is the reason she was separated from her kids. So she should be trying to reach out to him, inviting him over for dinner to try to form a relationship with him etc. Andre isn't the one who was sent away for selling drugs that was Cookie. She chose to partake in illegal activities that ended with her being put away and not involved in her kids lives for 17 years so she should be the one taking the initiative to repair those relationships. It's not on Andre.

 

I don't see why Cookie would be standoffish towards Andre. Cookie is the one responsible for the state of their relationship because she took the huge risk 17 years ago and decided helping Lucious becoming a rap star was more important than keeping her hands clean

I agree!  I think Cookie should be placed in scenes having private time with Andre.  Just her and her first born.  Dinner, walking together in the park, working out together at some uppity gym.  Anything!  That being said, I think Cookie and Andre not connecting is quite deliberate for storyline purposes, so that when, and I do mean WHEN, something dire happens on Andre's behalf, Cookie will have to take a really good look at herself and she probably won't like what she sees.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Syndicate

[Jazzy24]

I completely disagree with all of this. I know everyone loves Cookie, but Cookie is the one who messed up and is the reason she was separated from her kids. So she should be trying to reach out to him, inviting him over for dinner to try to form a relationship with him etc. Andre isn't the one who was sent away for selling drugs that was Cookie. She chose to partake in illegal activities that ended with her being put away and not involved in her kids lives for 17 years so she should be the one taking the initiative to repair those relationships. It's not on Andre.

I don't see why Cookie would be standoffish towards Andre. Cookie is the one responsible for the state of their relationship because she took the huge risk 17 years ago and decided helping Lucious becoming a rap star was more important than keeping her hands clean

I don't think she did what she did all for Lucious.

Cookie did what she did for her kids. She sold the drugs for the money to make it where the father of her kids would make it big so her children wouldn't have to know the life she and Lucious lived.

In the first episode she told Hakeem that she did everything for him and his brothers and I believe her, Cookie does love her kids.

Edited February 10, 2015 by Jazzy24

[JBC344]

I don't disagree that Cookie has to take the responsibility for her current relationships with her children.  The flip side of that is Andre is an adult at some point he is going to have to confront his real feelings about his mother being sent away and how that has impacted them. 

 

In addition to that there is an interesting dichotomy in that Luscious and the boys would not have the life that they do without Cookie's efforts.  I'm sure there will be a point in the story when the boys find out that their Empire and their rich lives where started from their mother's efforts. 

 

It is like your parents being in the mob, you can't as an adult complain about what they do when you are living off of their spoils. 

[tmelange]

Andre already knows that it was Cookie and her 400k of drug money that enabled his lifestyle. He's the one who told her to use that info as leverage to get Lucious to let her manage Jamal. Andre also was the only one who knew that Cookie got out of jail, seemingly the day it happened, so he must have been keeping an eye on her status. He seemingly forgives his father for all the illegality of his past (and is willing to cover for him over a recent murder) but doesn't seem too interested in cutting his mom the same slack. He comes off as very calculating and manipulative. Nothing about his interactions with Cookie have seemed authentic, so I'm not surprised that their relationship is distant. While it is Cookie's fault that she wasn't there for her kids, Andre's position vis a vis his age and knowledge makes it hypercritical for him to blame her while reaping the benefits of the fruit from the poisonous tree.

Edited February 10, 2015 by tmelange

[dirtypop90]

I still disagree. Andre may not think the money was worth it. Andre isn't like Hakeem and Jamal. He could've still become who he is (went off to school and become CFO of a company) without cookie and lucious's drug money.

 

And Andre isn't complaining about Cookie or blaming her for anything. He's just living his life as he's been doing. He's shown no hostility towards her.

 

My point is simply if Cookie wants to be in Andre's life, it's on her to take the initiative to mend fences, because she is responsible for their relationship being like it is. Cookie's the one going around town talking about her missing her boys growing up and wanting to fix things, but only working on trying to fix things with two of her sons. I just find it odd that people put that responsibility on andre. Your parent gets out of jail after 17 years for dealing drugs and it's your job to reach out to them and try to form a relationship? that's crazy to me.

 

And Andre is only 28, he was in elementary when she went in. How many fond memories of him and Cookie can he have? He's lived his life longer without her than with her.

Edited February 10, 2015 by dirtypop90

[JBC344]

I still disagree. Andre may not think the money was worth it. Andre isn't like Hakeem and Jamal. He could've still become who he is (went off to school and become CFO of a company) without cookie and lucious's drug money.

 

And Andre isn't complaining about Cookie or blaming her for anything. He's just living his life as he's been doing. He's shown no hostility towards her.

 

My point is simply if Cookie wants to be in Andre's life, it's on her to take the initiative to mend fences, because she is responsible for their relationship being like it is. Cookie's the one going around town talking about her missing her boys growing up and wanting to fix things, but only working on trying to fix things with two of her sons. I just find it odd that people put that responsibility on andre. Your parent gets out of jail after 17 years for dealing drugs and it's your job to reach out to them and try to form a relationship? that's crazy to me.

 

And Andre is only 28, he was in elementary when she went in. How many fond memories of him and Cookie can he have? He's lived his life longer without her than with her.

I don't think that Andre owes Cookie for his life but let's face it Andre and the rest of his family were put into a much better place because of Cookie's money.  I'm sure that Andre went to the finest private schools and had the best tutors in order to be put in a position that he can obtain acceptance to Wharton (I believe this is where Andre went) and become as successful as he is.  Also Andre didn't become CFO for some company he became CFO of Empire. 

 

Again I don't think Andre owes Cookie for his life growing up, but now that he is an adult and has all the information he can't pretend that his mother efforts have nothing to do with him when he is the CFO of a company that was planned and executed before he was ten years old.

[izabella]

Andre is interesting.  He craves his father's approval, and Lucious easily manipulates him with it.  He's authentic with his wife - they are partners in crime in their own way, like his parents were in theirs.  I'm not sure what he thinks of Cookie, but I think there's a part of him that doesn't respect her.  He does foolish things sometimes, which is bound to catch up with him at some point.  Cookie to the rescue, thus earning Andre's respect and gratitude?   

[dirtypop90]

I don't think that Andre owes Cookie for his life but let's face it Andre and the rest of his family were put into a much better place because of Cookie's money.  I'm sure that Andre went to the finest private schools and had the best tutors in order to be put in a position that he can obtain acceptance to Wharton (I believe this is where Andre went) and become as successful as he is.  Also Andre didn't become CFO for some company he became CFO of Empire. 

 

Again I don't think Andre owes Cookie for his life growing up, but now that he is an adult and has all the information he can't pretend that his mother efforts have nothing to do with him when he is the CFO of a company that was planned and executed before he was ten years old.

 

But Andre could've made it to Penn and Wharton without all of that. I was raised by a single mother making 30k and made it. And Andre with his education doesn't need Empire. He could be the CFO of another company.

 

Cookie birthed Andre and raised him for 8 or so years, and she deserves respect for that. But Andre doesn't owe Cookie anymore than he gives her. IMO If Cookie wants a relationship with him, it's on her to take the first step. I'm not saying she has to kiss his butt like she does Jamal, but hell make a little effort to bond with him. Cooke has made ZERO effort with Andre.

[Rae Spellman]

 

If Cookie wants a relationship with him, it's on her to take the first step. I'm not saying she has to kiss his butt like she does Jamal, but hell make a little effort to bond with him. Cooke has made ZERO effort with Andre.

 

Is it really possible for anyone who isn't Rhonda to have a relationship with Andre? Andre doesn't seem to have much of a relationship with either of his brothers. Andre's relationship with his father seems to be all business. As far as we know Andre doesn't even have friends. 

 

 

 

Cookie did what she did for her kids. She sold the drugs for the money to make it where the father of her kids would make it big so her children wouldn't have to know the life she and Lucious lived.

 

Cookie may believe it. But, I don't. 

 

I grew up in the inner city, taught in inner city schools for a couple of years, and am a social worker now. I've been acquainted with a drug dealer or two. And, I still never believe it when someone suggests that selling drugs was the only or best option that someone had. Or that someone was selling drugs for their family.

 

In some ways selling drugs provided the Lyon sons with a better life. In other ways, not so much. Cookie's children have two killers for parents. One of Cookie's son's lives was endangered by her other son. Apparently, Hakeem hangs out with gun carrying thugs.

Edited February 10, 2015 by RaeSpellman

[dirtypop90]

Is it really possible for anyone who isn't Rhonda to have a relationship with Andre? Andre doesn't seem to have much of a relationship with either of his brothers. Andre's relationship with his father seems to be all business. As far as we know Andre doesn't even have friends. 

 

 

Andre and Lucious's business-like relationship is clearly because of Lucious. Andre has had Lucious's back since he was a youngin. Lucious is the one who cares little for him.

 

As far as Andre with his brothers, I'll give you that.  But Jamal doesn't have friends either.

 

Once again, I'm just asking for the writers to show Cookie reaching out to Andre once. If she tries and fails so be it. It's just that Cookie not even making one attempt doesn't make sense to me.

[jsbt]

I think both Cookie and Andre are a little afraid of each other. In a very different way from the way Hakeem is afraid of her. I think Andre also deeply resents her abandonment, leaving him there to play wingman for Lucious as a kid. Cookie also represents Andre's past and the life he has tried to shed, and Andre represents someone Cookie doesn't know, doesn't fully understand and has, in her mind at least, probably risen above her in some ways.

[Timetoread]

I completely disagree with all of this. I know everyone loves Cookie, but Cookie is the one who messed up and is the reason she was separated from her kids. So she should be trying to reach out to him, inviting him over for dinner to try to form a relationship with him etc. Andre isn't the one who was sent away for selling drugs that was Cookie. She chose to partake in illegal activities that ended with her being put away and not involved in her kids lives for 17 years so she should be the one taking the initiative to repair those relationships. It's not on Andre.

 

I don't see why Cookie would be standoffish towards Andre. Cookie is the one responsible for the state of their relationship because she took the huge risk 17 years ago and decided helping Lucious becoming a rap star was more important than keeping her hands clean

 

Honestly I don't see Cookie being standoffish with Andre at all.  For what it is worth, Andre isn't any different with Cookie than anybody else.  In the first episode Jamal jumped on him for not coming through when Jamal and Mike invited him for dinner.  He didn't even call to let them know he wasn't coming.   Andre is ACTIVELY resentful of Hakeem and not at all close with his father.   His own father does not know that he is bipolar.  Andre seems to be one of those people who sees every single person as a chess piece to be played.  Even with Cookie, he asked her "Mom, how much do you love me?"  He is a manipulator.  That said, I don't think he harbors resentment against Cookie.  She was simply of no use to him in prison.  Now she's a good foil for his father when things don't go his way.  I'm willing to bet that it will be Cookie who figures out how to get to Andre's soft underbelly.  He is her first born and she knows him, even though he doesn't know that to be true.  She probably will not be completely surprised to learn that he is bipolar.

 

Andre already knows that it was Cookie and her 400k of drug money that enabled his lifestyle. He's the one who told her to use that info as leverage to get Lucious to let her manage Jamal. Andre also was the only one who knew that Cookie got out of jail, seemingly the day it happened, so he must have been keeping an eye on her status. He seemingly forgives his father for all the illegality of his past (and is willing to cover for him over a recent murder) but doesn't seem too interested in cutting his mom the same slack. He comes off as very calculating and manipulative. Nothing about his interactions with Cookie have seemed authentic, so I'm not surprised that their relationship is distant. While it is Cookie's fault that she wasn't there for her kids, Andre's position vis a vis his age and knowledge makes it hypercritical for him to blame her while reaping the benefits of the fruit from the poisonous tree.

 

Andre knows that Lucius is every bit as dirty or worse than Cookie.  He's already figured out that his dad killed Bunkie and threw him a lifeline.  I don't think it's a matter of cutting her slack, he just never had a use for her until now.  As she grabs more and more power, he is coming to her more and more for what she can do for him.  Andre's only interest is in Andre - he covers Lucius because Lucius has something he wants/needs.  Honestly I don't see him crying many tears at Lucius' funeral.

[Ohwell]

And, I still never believe it when someone suggests that selling drugs was the only or best option that someone had. Or that someone was selling drugs for their family.

I don't buy that excuse at all because I know too many people who grew up in poor families, started with nothing and have had to work their butts off to get where they are today.  Their parents did not sell drugs, they just kept working hard and instilling in their children to work hard. 

 

Cookie and Lucious sold drugs for themselves.  Just like Walter White in Breaking Bad.

[jhlipton]

Annika's dad folded pretty damn quick. "I could lose my license and my hospitals... eh, ain't no big deal!"

I think "India" (what's up with white girls taking "ethnic" names? I swear there's at least one white girl named "Ebony"!) is supposed to be a super-model. That's why she was at Rhonda's shoot. (And Tianna would have been super-dumb to be messing about with her in public like that, if she actually gave a damn.)

Cookie is so much prettier than Annika it's not even funny.

 

=========================================================

 

ETA:  Is Tianna (pop star dating a model) based a bit on Taylor Swift (http://www.vogue.com/9287379/taylor-swift-karlie-kloss-best-friends-march-2015-cover/)

Edited February 15, 2015 by jhlipton

[Demig]

Ok, those two are in Love!

[darkestboy]

I liked this episode. Shame about the lack of Michael and Becky though but everything else was awesome.

Both Cookie and Andre acted out recklessly and caused needless damage though, Cookie even more so.

Did the show really have to link that awful site when outing Tiana though? Ugh big time with that one.

I did love Tiana refusing to take shit from Hakeem when he was mad about her having a gilfriend.

Lucious not having a problem with Tiana being bisexual wasn't a surprise in the slightest. Neither was his scam with Anika's father too.

Great studio sessions with Jamal (minus the shooting parts though) but a little sad he didn't give Hakeem the benefit of the doubt though, 8/10