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S04.E03: Female Author


Tara Ariano

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Hannah has a lot of free time but nothing to do with only one class a week, while Elijah makes his mark on the Iowa social scene. Back in New York City, Ray warns Marnie about Desi's intentions before they meet with a record label; Shoshanna has a job interview; and Adam gets mixed up in Jessa's world after an AA meeting.
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Do you think they'd go there?

 

I'm not 100% sure (a girl can dream). But my feeling is that Jessa is mad at Hannah for leaving and Adam was annoyed by her "random decision" to go. And all of them love to push the self-destruction button and have a very passive-aggressive way of dealing with things. Not to mention that all the girls have these strange relationships with each other.

Edited by braziliangirl
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I liked this a lot better than last week's episode, it feels like we're finally going somewhere with the plot (which may or may not last).  The amount of Ray helped a lot, although I'm still annoyed with him sleeping with Marnie.  On the other hand, it was nice seeing Marnie be upfront with Desi, who is super gross.  It's obviously doubtful that she'll actually break things off with him "romantically", but I hope she heard the bullshit he was feeding her for what it was.  

 

Adam and Jessa are interesting together.  I don't know that I really want to see where it's going, but shaking up the pairings of characters spending time together is nice.  

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I agree that mixing up the pairs is a good idea....

Ray was the champion of this episode, with Adam being the runner up. Marnie remains insanely self-involved- I might have misheard but I think she compared herself to Shoshana in the Ray/Shoshana/Marnie triangle, when Shoshana is Clementine in the Marnie/Desi/Clementine triangle. And I think it might be on purpose, but Desi and Marnie's music makes my ears bleed.

Desiree Akhavan is really striking looking. And I'm sure it's meta, but it's pretty hilarious that Hannah has to go go to Iowa to hang out with people of colour, unable to find any in New York City (Donald Glover not withstanding.) I like D August... I actually thought Hannah listing all their faults and then leaving awkwardly before they could counter was pretty funny- well written/acted by all.

Trend jewelry.

Edited by Pogojoco
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Marnie remains insanely self-involved- I might have misheard but I think she compared herself to Shoshana in the Ray/Shoshana/Marnie triangle, when Shoshana is Clementine in the Marnie/Desi/Clementine triangle.

I think the line was something about how Marnie is way worse off in this situation than Shoshanna was in that one. Which was both absurd, but also totally believable that Marnie would think that.

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I loved the Jessa character in season 1, but I feel like they just don't know what to do with her anymore. To me, the peeing on the road seemed out of character for her. Don't get me wrong, I totally think she'd pop a squat behind a bush, in an alley, etc., but not in the middle of a busy street, in broad daylight, with people and cars passing by. It's like, the only way the writers know how to drill home just how much of a rebel Jessa is, is by continually writing her into more and more ridiculous and extreme situations. We get it. She's so anti-establishment, she's a free spirit, she's a feminist, blah blah.  It's not exactly subtle. BUT, I don't think it was in-character. And, it also seemed a bit gratuitous (I am no prude), just to show how much Jessa/the show/Lena/the modern woman pushes the envelope. I would have bought it more if Jessa got in trouble for something like littering, and then made it worse for herself by being lippy and giving the cops attitude. Even badgirl Jessa couldn't have thought that she could piss on a busy street in NYC in BROAD DAYLIGHT and not face some kind of repercussion...

 

Hannah is just the worst. I don't even see anything remotely lovable or redeeming about the character. Her scenes are the ones that interest me the least - except for when they involve Elijah. I like it when characters are flawed and not written as some perfect Mary-Sue type, but I cannot conceive that ANYONE would willingly be friends with Hannah.

Hannah Horvath and Carrie Bradshaw should just be shipped off to some magical TV island for annoying narcissists, where all they do is talk over one another and make what they think are witty observations about life. The Marianna's Trench of philosophical writing.

 

Marnie...well, at least she stood up for herself. Kind of. Man, she's just such an awkward weirdo.

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Hannah Horvath and Carrie Bradshaw should just be shipped off to some magical TV island for annoying narcissists, where all they do is talk over one another and make what they think are witty observations about life.

 

 

Carrie Bradshaw certainly had her awful and selfish moments, but there were many, many times when she demonstrated how devoted she was to her friends. There were also times when she admitted a mistake when someone called her on it. With Hannah it's all about Hannah, all the time, and anyone who criticizes her gets told off. 

 

So Hannah couldn't write when she was working, and she can't write when she's not working. Maybe she ... just can't write?

 

Shosh, I can't even. Ann Taylor Loft is not good enough for her, with her blank resume after barely graduating college? The lady who interviewed her was super nice, too, which is rare in the fashion industry. Would she rather work for a Devil Wears Prada type?

 

Jessa, I have no words. It's really fucked up when Adam seems like a normal person next to you.

 

Desi is such an asshole. I want someone to break his jaw so that it has to be wired shut and he can't spew all that bullshit anymore. Even Marnie deserves better.

 

I love Elijah, but he can't always be Hannah's magic gay friend. Give the guy his own storyline, Dunham!

Edited by chocolatine
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Best line of the episode -- when Elijah decides to "turn the camera outward" for a change. Ha! I remember when a photographer turning the camera inward was avant garde, but I guess in the age of selfies, the reverse is starting to be true.

 

I also loved Hannah's takedown of her fellow writers. Maybe it was a little overprivileged, but still cathartic and true to the character. We'll see if her outburst affects the class's behavior in any way.

 

Shoshanna's cheery refusal of a great job offer during the interview made me cringe so hard for the 22-year-old in all of us. It was such a dumb-bunny move that she'll be lucky if the hiring manager doesn't blog about her and/or spread the story all over town.

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After not knowing what to think last week, I'm glad Eli went to Iowa.  He's doing the things Hannah should be doing.  Interacting with lots of people, working on a creative project, generally taking advantage of what the community is offering him.   Hannah, instead, is showing us yet again that she can't take advantage of opportunities because of her mental or emotional problems.   Instead of using the information from her critique, she turns to personally attack the other students.  Instead of writing, she mopes around and overeats.  I think the problem is that Hannah isn't actually a writer.  She's more of a half arsed chronicler of her own experiences, relying on shocked and titillation rather than on actual writing skills.  The episode last night left the door open for her to give up writing.  Giving up is easy, liberating in Eli's words, because you walk away from any expectations you've set for yourself in that area.  If she doesn't walk away, she's going to have to go through some sort of metamorphosis and start to actually work on her writing and use criticism of her writing as feedback for improving it.  What are the odds that she'll do that?  Slim, probably, since none of the girls in this show actually grow.   Shosh had some potential to grow over the last few episodes, but tanked a great job opportunity at Ann Taylor Loft because she's kind of stupid and naive.   Marne had some potential to grow at the beginning of this episode realizing that she's just his mistress, but by the end she seemed to have backslid a bit.  Maybe there's a little hope for her still.  Jessa is a trainwreck who, as Adam realized, takes people down with her then leaves them.  She seemed to have a moment at the end there when she realized she's largely friendless but that's as likely as not to be her manipulation of Adam, as she's manipulated Hannah in the past.

 

Jessa and Adam are a very bad idea as a couple, the two serious headcases in the show although Adam is more of a functional headcase than Jessa is.  It looks like this is setting up major drama between Hannah, Jessa, and Adam probably building up over Skype and exploding in person.  On another show, I'd suspect that this could be a shock that pushes Hannah out of her warped comfort zone and into writing but since it's Girls, she's probably overeat and then stick something pointy in her ear.

 

That storyline with Marne needs to end asap.  The duo's music isn't as good as the fawning people in that office made it seem.  In terms of relationships, Marne needs to either learn something or crash hard soon.

Edited by terrymct
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Giving up is easy, liberating in Eli's words, because you walk away from any expectations you've set for yourself in that area.  If she doesn't walk away, she's going to have to go through some sort of metamorphosis and start to actually work on her writing and use criticism of her writing as feedback for improving it.  What are the odds that she'll do that?  Slim, probably, since none of the girls in this show actually grow. 

 

 

This is pure speculation on my part, but Hannah will only mature when she accepts that she is not going to be a writer, until she takes the effort to perfect her craft.  Instead, she will just claim that real witers do not go to school...they experience life.  Perhaps she will also tell herself that the other writers were intimidated by her new wave feminism and therefore could not appreciate her genius.  She is the voice of her generation...Godammit.

 

Has the job market improved to such a point that fresh out of college people with no experience can turn down cool jobs?  Is Shosh's parent's still supporting her... because she does not seem pressed to earn some money and NYC is expensive.

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Shoshanna's cheery refusal of a great job offer during the interview made me cringe so hard for the 22-year-old in all of us. It was such a dumb-bunny move that she'll be lucky if the hiring manager doesn't blog about her and/or spread the story all over town.

 

What's funny is that this is not a stretch.  Back in 1998 I worked as a produce in a terribly small news station and we had a college intern and she was really good.  I was telling her "Hey, we are probably going to have an opening soon and you're graduating soon and I think we would certainly offer the job to you if you are interested" and she looked at me and said "Oh no, I can't work anywhere this small. I'm going to be a political correspondent in Washington, DC."  and I just had to nod and be like "Oh, um, oh.  Ok.  Well, good luck" 

 

Sadly this probably happens way more often than we think. 

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Congrats Marnie. I now hate Jessa more than I hate you.

The stolen bike thing is getting a little sit-commy. She had two chains on it and somebody walks up on the porch and cuts those chains, with people milling around? Yeah, I don't think so.

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So Hannah couldn't write when she was working, and she can't write when she's not working. Maybe she ... just can't write?

She may be afraid to write because of the critique she got in class. Her confidence is down.

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Is there a support group for a show you used to hate-watch that starts to improve? I was entertained you guys!

Dammit.

 

Yeah. I went from changing the channel as soon as I heard any of their voices, to hate-watching, to kind of loving this show. Of course, I mainly watch just to see Hannah get humiliated and for Jessa's hi-jinks and snark.

 

Speaking of Hannah-humiliation, what about that exit from the party where she flings one leg over the couch and then has trouble getting the other one over, giving Gary Cooper a full-on display of her, for once, clothed womanhood? This is one time when I'm glad smell-o-vision doesn't exist yet.

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That storyline with Marne needs to end asap.  The duo's music isn't as good as the fawning people in that office made it seem.  In terms of relationships, Marne needs to either learn something or crash hard soon.

 

That group in the music office fawning all over them were only fawning over them b/c they thought they were a musical love couple right?  When they found out they weren't together, they seemed to be less interested, or that was my opinion I guess.

 

I binge-watched this show before the start of this season, and I have to say the first season was so great, but everything since...up to this episode was crap.  I did like Hannah schooling her classmates.  She has class one day a freaking week and does nothing else with her 6 days and probably 22 hours other than question everyone about Adam.  I'm thinking it's one of her classmates messing with her bike.

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I must be a little OCD, because it really bothered me that the cop wrote up a ticket and gave it to Jessa without ever asking for ID, her name, address, etc.  If she hadn't torn it up in front of them, how would anyone know if she never paid it?  I wish they wrote tickets like that IRL.

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 I'm thinking it's one of her classmates messing with her bike.

Yes!  I bet it's that chick with the black pageboy haircut.  Remember, she was the one who told her not to lock it up the first day because this was Iowa?

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I hope that was Adam's moment of clarity and he never crosses the Jessa threshold. It was a joke last season when Hannah popped a squat waiting on the train back from the Hamptons when she had a UTI. Now Jessa just does it. 

 

Hannah wasn't wrong about any of the things she said, yes she was being spiteful after they tore her down in class but I remember thinking in the first scene of the class how each one ticked off a little box of cliches, everyone is their own "token". Hannah is the easiest to tear down because she's the bland quirky white girl. We still do not know if any of them have any inherit talent. 

 

And Marnie sticking up for herself doesn't mean much when she just slept with Ray because he was nice. 

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Geez, what the heck was Desi thinking, touching Marnie constantly while everyone was listening to that God awful song -- it was pretty obvious that Marnie was not enjoying all the PDA. Then to respond, "a lot of people make that mistake" after they assume Marnie and Desi are a romantic couple? What the what?

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If I never hear the phrase "...I have a girlfiend named Clementine" again, it will be too soon.  Desi is a world of no.  Get your life together, Marnie.

 

Shosh made me cringe and laugh at her "just practicing" in the middle of the job interview.  Reality is going to be really hard on her.  Or not.  On this show, she might fall into a random, weird NYC niche that is just perfect for her. 

 

I'm not feeling Jessa and Adam.  I get they both miss Hannah and are a bit bitter about the whole thing (b/c that's who they are), but I hope they don't go there.  Those two are the definition of the Eminem song "Love the Way You Lie".  When a tornado meets a hurricane, indeed.

 

Hannah.  Girl.  Dang.  I love that she can't read a room (or she can and DOES NOT remotely care).  Much of my favorite Hannah moments stem from that place. 

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It was a stupid move that Shosh made at the interview (was it for Ann Taylor Loft, I think the interviewer said?) but having seen my fair share on very entitled inexpereinced college graduates via my work, I don't think that story line is too out there. Not to mention, her parents set her up to live a cozy existence while getting her undergrad degree in a Manhattan apartment. Girl hasn't exactly had to live in any sort of "real world" just yet. If mom or dad are still bank rolling her, then she knows she can afford to be picky.

 

A big fat UGH to Marnie comparing herself to Shosh in the Clementine-Desi-Marnie triangle. No bitch, not at all. Ray was the voice of reason but for the love of god, I wish he would stop sleeping with Marnie. Marnie really needs to find some self awareness after 4 seasons of this damn show.

 

I loved how someone in the writer's group quipped that (paraphrasing) "we have found our group's Lindsay Lohan" referring to Hannah right after she backwards-rolled off the couch.

Edited by MelsW
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I forgot to mention something earlier than was an interesting tidbit. Marne apparently wrote about half of Hannah's papers in college. So, Hannah's been a non-writing writer for years then.

I caught that too. Seems like Hannah's never actually done much writing. I'm actually excited that this season might be about pulling all the threads of Hannah not being a very talented writer into a bow. I've wanted this since S1 because everything about Hannah points to it. She's a writer like I'm a writer. I've actually made my living "writing" at times, but it's been very workman like (press releases, advertising, corporate blogging, that sort of thing). I have never referred to myself as a writer, I'm a professional who writes (and does it well) when my job calls for it. I'm never had any delusions about taking a year off to work on my novel. I think that's Hannah. She likes the idea of being a writer, but she actually somebody who can write well. It's not the same thing.

Why was Sho even interviewing at Anne Taylor? Wasn't she some sort of math or science major? How would she even get that interview? I hate it when this show pulling non-sequiturs in plot development. Which it does all the damn time.

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I thought she was applying to an Anne Taylor Loft store, as a manager. Those are pretty much awful jobs and dead ends so I didn't fault her for using it as a practice interview. Now telling them it was a practice interview...

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I thought she was applying to an Anne Taylor Loft store, as a manager. Those are pretty much awful jobs and dead ends so I didn't fault her for using it as a practice interview. Now telling them it was a practice interview...

I thought that it was something for the website or corporate in someway from the way they were talking about "developing the accessory story". i could be wrong, the whole thing made very little sense to me.

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I believe Shosh was getting her MBA. I have no idea what her undergrad was in but I'm assuming that she's graduating with her MBA and is looking to get into fashion business jobs.  And sadly, even though 90% of my wardrobe comes from LOFT, I'm pretty sure they're not the most coveted corporate fashion job in New York. I think they're seen as very "midwestern/boring" - especially to someone who is Shoshanna's age thinking she's going to take the world by storm. Why work at LOFT if you think you're going to get hired at Kate Spade - I mean, of course I know that it would be stupid to turn it down, especially in the way that Shoshanna did - but if you think like Shoshanna, it makes sense-ish. 

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Marnie really needs to find some self awareness after 4 seasons of this damn show.

 

I really can't believe how far she has fallen since the first season of the show when she moved out of the apartment w/Hannah.  I'm sure this has been stated before but I think she needs the stability of living w/Hannah and vice versa.  I mean the worse thing about her life during the first season was she was w/a guy that she was tired of after being w/him for years.

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As someone who has been involved with unavailable men, I cheered Ray for his talk and Marnie for taking it in. I actually thought it was quite well-written and it showed how much she appreciated it when she suddenly thought, wow, he's right, I AM worth more. I could see why she kissed him, and why after that, she found strength to see through Desi's BS.

 

And I agree with Lena on the BS of men saying it's OK if they hurt you because they never promised they wouldn't.

 

Don't MFA students at Iowa have more than one workshop in a week? or if they don't, aren't they meant to be working on a big project?

 

I thought her takedown of the students was apt and I liked Hannah more than I ever had. But their response shows they won't take it in. That said, the whole grad writing workshop feels fakey- Iowa is one of the BEST workshops in the country, and everyone there woudl be coming in knowing the others admitted were damn good. It's not creative writing 101.

 

Their whole attitude of critiquing the source was fake, fake, fake.

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Seems like Hannah's never actually done much writing. I'm actually excited that this season might be about pulling all the threads of Hannah not being a very talented writer into a bow. I've wanted this since S1 because everything about Hannah points to it.  

 

Beautifully put, and I'm excited at the prospect too.  Maybe this was her creator's intention all along -- the truer answer to Adam's query in the season two finale: "What the fuck is wrong with you."  

 

Hannah has never struck me as a writer: she's a snarker, a red carpet commentator. She has a sharp eye for types and tropes and a sharper tongue.  Those kind of selfie-turned-outward verbal "candids" she spews when feeling provoked are her work.  She's the tweet of her generation. 

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Beautifully put, and I'm excited at the prospect too. Maybe this was her creator's intention all along -- the truer answer to Adam's query in the season two finale: "What the fuck is wrong with you."

Hannah has never struck me as a writer: she's a snarker, a red carpet commentator. She has a sharp eye for types and tropes and a sharper tongue. Those kind of selfie-turned-outward verbal "candids" she spews when feeling provoked are her work. She's the tweet of her generation.

I'm really hoping this has been a long term plan too. A lot of stuff would fit. For instance the one writing situation/job/circumstance that we really saw her excell at was the magazine job. It was really an advertising job and she had a feel for it, but it wasn't "important" writing so she quit. I'm not knocking that kind of writing. It takes a particular talent and skill set, but it's not the tortured, misunderstood genius novelist that Hannah likes to think of herself as. She wants to live that life, but I don't think she's actually that person.

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Agreed, fozzybear, and it did seem that Lena may have been choosing to show her hand when Hannah proved a real natural at the avertorial biz.  Of course some writers also have a knack for other kinds of writing, or other kinds of endeavors altogether.  But where Adam, for example, comes across as a person with something to say -- at least, someone on the road to finding something to say, no matter where that takes him -- Hannah only comments on what's in front of her, and only perceives a sliver of that.  She experiences fragments of popular culture, but she doesn't explore life.  She observes the stuff that's getting consumed by people like her.  

 

I'm not sure Hannah even really wants to live the life of the writer.  That would demand (1) writing, (2) knowing stuff about more than stuff, (3) knowing a bit about how much she doesn't know and (4) wanting to know more.  Hannah learns less often than she writes.  ("Marnie wrote half my papers!", which may or may not be true, but is a hell of a declaration.)  

 

I think Hannah wants to feel like a writer.  Hannah wants to be taken for a writer.  Hannah wants to brand herself as a writer.  Perhaps because she feels that's the label, the logo, that turns weirdo into wizard. 

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Hannah also seems to entirely lack a writers empathy and imagination.

I don't even think she'd make a good journalist. She has no natural curiosity or desire to get people to talk.

And she never listens when they do.

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The stolen bike thing is getting a little sit-commy. She had two chains on it and somebody walks up on the porch and cuts those chains, with people milling around? Yeah, I don't think so.

Word.  I just dropped in to say that someone's been watching too many episodes of Reno 911; Lieutenant Dangle's locked down bike being stolen was a recurring joke during the entire run of that series. Come to think of it, one of the deputies was named Clementine, too.

 

Dun Dun DUN!!

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I thought that it was something for the website or corporate in someway from the way they were talking about "developing the accessory story". i could be wrong, the whole thing made very little sense to me.

I'm pretty sure the position Shosh was interviewing for was assistant buyer- so one of the people who decides on the stuff sold in the Ann Taylor Loft stores based on trends and availability etc etc. Shosh would be in charge of deciding which cardigans they'd sell (or their "cardigan story" for the season) according to the other up talk lady. And apparently the jewelry (hence the bulletin board with all the jewelry.) It was definitely confusing.

 

It's actually the same job Rachel on Friends had at Bloomingdale's.

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I'm pretty sure the position Shosh was interviewing for was assistant buyer- so one of the people who decides on the stuff sold in the Ann Taylor Loft stores based on trends and availability etc etc. Shosh would be in charge of deciding which cardigans they'd sell (or their "cardigan story" for the season) according to the other up talk lady. And apparently the jewelry (hence the bulletin board with all the jewelry.) It was definitely confusing.

It's actually the same job Rachel on Friends had at Bloomingdale's.

That is so damn random.

I could be wrong (I often am), but I thought Sho just got a BA or a BS in science or math. I'm almost positive she just got her undergrad degree since her being younger than the rest of the cast has been mentioned. And I could have sworn the class that almost stopped her from graduating was a bio lab. Why is she interviewing for a position as a buyer? Plus wouldn't being a buyer for a major brand like Anne Taylor be a pretty good job for someone out of school? How would she even get the interview with no retail experience and a degree that doesn't translate? Why was that sceen even there? Oh and do we know who Adam isn't spending every night with? Are we supposed to think he's seeing someone in NYC while Hannah is gone? Also wasn't Clementine supposed to be pregnant at the end of last season? Have we gotten a follow up on that?

Edited by FozzyBear
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Yes she'd have to train. Evoke being any kind of a buyer, unless she has work experience we haven't been told about, she'd e lucky to get a job in a management trainee position.

I predict this is going to turn around and bite her in the butt. She's going to be unemployed for a while.

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