S04.E09: Sketching With Sharks

[yeswedo]

I've moved a few posts that were about Isaac generally and not related to the episode to the just created Judges thread.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

ZANNA: You need a win. The fact that you haven't won a challenge yet is a problem I am weirdly blaming you for.

DMITRY: It's okay. I've been in the top in several challenges and I'm secure in my work despite your obvious attempt to rile me up.

ZANNA: YOU NEED A WIN! Why aren't you winning? What's wrong with you? Why aren't you letting me upset you?

DMITRY: Well, the judges have their own opinions. I can only do my best and then as long as I like my work in my own opinion, I'm satisfied.

ZANNA: Saying your opinion is better than anyone else's is arrogance.

DMITRY: I guess it would be, if I had done that, which I didn't.

ZANNA: You need to beware of that arrogance if you want to win.

DMITRY: I'm not being arrogant, crazy "mentor" lady, I'm explaining that as long as I keep doing good work, I'm okay.

ZANNA: I'm glad we had this talk so that I could help you get that arrogance under control so that you can now win the challenge.

DMITRY: Cool. Great. Bye. You are insane.

Ha, A+! While I was watching, I was prepared for there to be a huge fight between them so I was cracking up that Zanna kept trying to bait him and most of Dmitry's responses were along the lines of, "Uh, okay, Zanna. Oh, you're still here haranguing me?" I loved that he didn't let her get under his skin. I also found it hilarious that Zanna said, "You need a win," as if Dmitry's strategy has been to slide by in the middle of the pack every week (which seems to be some designers' strategy in the past). Zanna, it's not like he's deliberately not trying to win so telling him he needs to win isn't exactly the motivating factor you seem to think it is.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I was only half watching the runway, so I may be misremembering. But I'm pretty sure it was Dmitry's avant garde *thinking* - rather than avant garde *execution * - being rewarded. Maybe Isaac said that?

 

That was Alyssa.

 

Considering Nicole S's last foray into judging reality competitions, I wasn't expecting much, but I was surprised she had some interesting criticism. I thought it was a good point that Fabio might be using the pink in an attempt to inject some femininity into his otherwise androgynous designs

 

That was also Alyssa.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ketzel]

I assumed Helen's dress would be the one on the bottom as soon as her model hit the runway. Then she and the judges started talking to each other and the whole thing zoomed off into WTF? world. Helen earnestly explains that sharks have denticles on their skin so the skin feels smooth when stoked in one direction, and sharp and hard, like a rasp, when stroked in the opposite direction. Her dress was inspired by and reflected that sharp-hard versus smooth contrast. All the judges stared at her knee-length nightgown loaded with huge ruffles in random locations, nodded knowingly and burst into paeans of praise.  I stared at the TV screen and wondered what about ruffles in any way, shape, or form, echoed the denticles on a shark's skin.  Ruffles are raspy? Ruffles are rough-edged? Ruffles are reversible? What could possibly be the connection?

 

I get that Helen probably just babbled whatever, because she was going to sew ruffles on whatever she made. ["I had to swim in the penguin enclosure! Did you know penguins are black and white? My design was inspired by the contrast between black, which recedes, and white, which approaches . . . "]

But what were the judges thinking? I assume they must have flashed-back to that old potato chip commercial: "Oh how clever of Helen. Ruffles have ridges, right?"

Edited January 17, 2015 by Ketzel

[Julia]

I get that Helen probably just babbled whatever, because she was going to sew ruffles on whatever she made. ["I had to swim in the penguin enclosure! Did you know penguins are black and white? My design was inspired by the contrast between black, which recedes, and white, which approaches . . . "]

I thought the same thing, only it's even more bizarre, because the aquarium they were supposed to be getting inspiration from has a coral reef, an anemone forest, and a sea jelly display. There were a ton of things - some of them in bright colors, and some which even glow in the dark - with actual ruffles she could have claimed she was getting inspiration from ("I was struck by the contrast of the shark's sleekness and the ruffles of the...").

The other thing I learned from their website: the moray eels have the same hairstyle as Michelle. That's a moray (sorry, couldn't resist).

Edited January 18, 2015 by Julia

[Sarnia]

So Isaac thinks it's the best runway show they've had this season, and Georgina (I think it was her) says she can't find anything wrong with Helen's dress. I don't know what they are on, but I want some.

I liked Sonjia's look the best. It maybe wasn't much avant-garde (but then, none of them were, except maybe Michelle, which was ugly) but it looked wonderful.

[Surrealist]

ZANNA: You need a win. The fact that you haven't won a challenge yet is a problem I am weirdly blaming you for.

DMITRY: It's okay. I've been in the top in several challenges and I'm secure in my work despite your obvious attempt to rile me up.

ZANNA: YOU NEED A WIN! Why aren't you winning? What's wrong with you? Why aren't you letting me upset you?

DMITRY: Well, the judges have their own opinions. I can only do my best and then as long as I like my work in my own opinion, I'm satisfied.

ZANNA: Saying your opinion is better than anyone else's is arrogance.

DMITRY: I guess it would be, if I had done that, which I didn't.

ZANNA: You need to beware of that arrogance if you want to win.

DMITRY: I'm not being arrogant, crazy "mentor" lady, I'm explaining that as long as I keep doing good work, I'm okay.

ZANNA: I'm glad we had this talk so that I could help you get that arrogance under control so that you can now win the challenge.

DMITRY: Cool. Great. Bye. You are insane.

 

I wanted to like Dmitry's, since a seahorse dress would have been the end-all, be-all, but I found it just okay. I did think its length, however, made it much more complex than any previous floating geometrical garments he'd made before.

 

I'm just glad Dmitry stuck with making his dress, which was inspired by "sea whores."

Edited January 17, 2015 by Surrealist

[nottopbravo]

I was watching in HD, so did anyone else see the huge amount of loose threads hanging off Justin's outfit?  If I remember correctly, they did ding him on construction. 

[izabella]

Yes, that fabric that Justin used was not ideal since he didn't hem anything.  He wanted the volume that he could create with the light chiffon, but it was a stringy mess from when he started cutting and had his break-down.

[ratgirlagogo]

 

Nobody's addressed the most important question in the episode for me: IS SWATCH OKAY? At Mood we didn't see him this episode, and then there was that weird cut to a painting of Swatch, as if in tribute. I was just wondering if Swatch had passed away -- I know he's got to be a pretty old dog at this point, and last episode he was being held up on the counter by one of the Mood folks, and he looked kind of old and tired, poor little guy.

Yes, I forgot about that - that upset me too.  Swatch being the real star of the show for me and everything.

[NikSac]

I was watching in HD, so did anyone else see the huge amount of loose threads hanging off Justin's outfit?  If I remember correctly, they did ding him on construction. 

 

Yes that was really bad!  It was so much that I actually thought it was intentional at first, and I was waiting for him to explain what it represented (swaying seaweed or fine jellyfish tentacles, perhaps?).

[leighdear]

There was a Mood tweet referencing Swatch back on January 9th (and they tweet a LOT, as it's award season).  Since this was shot last fall, I really think that if anything happened to him, or he was MIA, somebody would have put it on social media.

 

It's fun to follow them, and see all the tweets from PR folks we've seen over the years and the current crop...

Edited January 17, 2015 by leighdear

[designing1]

Heck, when the day comes that Swatch goes to The Big Doghouse In the Sky, I'll accept nothing less than an In Memoriam card at the end of PR.

[avecsans]

Dmitry's polite disdain towards Zanna is a thing of beauty. Is there a female equivalent of an empty suit (maybe empty cocktail dress?). Anyway, whatever it is, she's it.

I think of Michelle more as a performance artist who is acting the part of a fashion designer. Nothing she does or says seems sincere. And that affected, constipated way she speaks makes me keep one finger on the mute button at all times.

I almost had to turn it off when I saw that the Pussycat Doll was judging. She is awful. She won Dancing with the Stars (no surprise, because as a dance major and professional dancer she was the ringeriest ringer who ever rang) and she was heinous. She justified a completely unnecessary meltdown because she is an "artist." Ugh.

[lyric]

I often watch this show as aired, so I can't jump the commercials.  This means I've been assaulted with this heinous 'fashion' advertised in Logo(?) ads week over week.  Has anyone seen these, with the lady suggesting to mix up your fashion while wearing a long-sleeved green tie-dyed looking t-shirt with the nightmarish bedazzled tan vest thing?  Oh my god - all of her clothes are genuinely traumatizing.  Perfectly matched with this show they're sponsoring, I guess.

Edited January 17, 2015 by lyric

[Kromm]

Big bag of "What the hell" this week (not that there isn't that most weeks).  Wrong people on top.  Wrong person left.  

I was watching in HD, so did anyone else see the huge amount of loose threads hanging off Justin's outfit?  If I remember correctly, they did ding him on construction. 

If that was the actual reason he was booted, I wish they'd SAID so on air.  Because just from a design perspective, there was much worse (especially Michelle's nightmare, which was somehow a "top look").

Michelle's or Jay's pieces were the most A-G up there. 

And so the issue between what's Avante Garde and what's goddam ugly.  I mean Michelle's might have the most genuine Avante Garde feel to it, but it was grotesque.

Dmitry's polite disdain towards Zanna is a thing of beauty. Is there a female equivalent of an empty suit (maybe empty cocktail dress?). Anyway, whatever it is, she's it.

I think of Michelle more as a performance artist who is acting the part of a fashion designer. Nothing she does or says seems sincere. And that affected, constipated way she speaks makes me keep one finger on the mute button at all times.

Yeah, but to be fair, Dmity IS kind of an asshole (who just occasionally stumbles into designing something interesting).  Zanna being an idiot doesn't change that.

 

As for Michelle?  Lord, I wish it was that.  But my gut says she really IS that insincere and affected, all on her own and it's not some kind of grand social commentary. I mean even just the way she said her age in the birthday thing we saw with her made me want to hit her.

[Bebecat]

Missed this episode as I forgot all about this show...but glad Dmitri won and that Justin is gone, in any case. I saw some of the looks online but have not found "Rate the runway" yet to see the rest. Fabio's was ugly...Michelle (and her design) also ugly. AM has to be going for,worst dressed on a tv show, in the history of TV. And she has beautiful hair, I do not get those gigantic buns she often wears.

[Lnmop]

Overall, the most disturbing thing on this episode was finding out that Alyssa was the "insipiration" for Ariel (aka the Little Mermaid). SAY WHAT??

My grandchildren were here today, and as usual, the girl wanted to watch Ariel. I don't know how ANYBODY can claim to be the inspiration when Every. Damn. Disney Princess looks alike.

[Nidratime]

I thought Helen's dress looked like a bad Bridesmaid's dress (which is a redundant thought). I am baffled by the judges' admiration.

[heebiejeebie]

While I love the take on the conversation between Zanna and Dmitry, it makes me wonder how many times this season has the same thing essentially happened?  Zanna makes an observation about a particular designer only to have a more specific judging prove her absolutely wrong.  She was trying to say Dmitry needed to change to win.  He didn't change even though he politely agreed he wanted and should have a win.  Tim Gunn has been just as bad last two seasons of the original recipe version.

 

I never liked  Coles to a huge degree because I felt there was Nina Garcia type "I will always know more and better than you" arrogance in some of her critiques.  But the plus was that she did have fashion knowledge and sense.  Whereas from what I have seen of Zanna she just wants to be in front a camera no matter what and will let anything fall from her lips as long as it is noise and keeps the camera on her.  I don't doubt for an instant her exchange with Dmitry was in part prompted by her deciding to make a cutting room moment for herself.

[Surrealist]

Yes that was really bad! It was so much that I actually thought it was intentional at first, and I was waiting for him to explain what it represented (swaying seaweed or fine jellyfish tentacles, perhaps?).

And am I insane or was Justin's fabric frayed when he purchased it? Or was another contestant looking at fabric that was fringe, but it looked frayed?

Edited January 18, 2015 by Surrealist

[NikSac]

I wish they had explained the frayed fabric better. Did he pick it on purpose? Run out of time to sew it?  or...?

[wovenloaf]

The top of Alyssa's dress looked like something from the Flintstones... Then the bottom was just a tent, like much of the stuff we've seen her in. Beyond feeling bad for her because of her stylist's poor decisions, I feel so bad for her because she seems so uncomfortable all the time. She sounds out of breath whenever she's standing up. =(

Will Fabio stop making pants and a long jacket anytime soon? Am I wrong in feeling like he's done that look a lot this season? I've found him very underwhelming this season.

Dmitri's refusal to buy into Zanna's babbling was great.

I'm glad Justin is gone. I've always found him kind of a snooze, and I'm over his excessive displays of emotion.

[Kromm]

My grandchildren were here today, and as usual, the girl wanted to watch Ariel. I don't know how ANYBODY can claim to be the inspiration when Every. Damn. Disney Princess looks alike.

While on the face of it she might sound egotistical saying what she did, she's saying it because apparently the audio commentary on the official Disney DVD named her as one of the people the character design was based upon (along with the wife of one of the animators, and also in part upon the model they hired to do the live action reference shots for the character with).

[millennium]

omg, I swear I just heard Dimitri say "sea whores" ..... snorted my wine big time.

 

Aaaaand he continues to say it.   I know its a lost-in-translation moment, but I'm still not seeing those aquatic fish things....

 

LOL, when he said "sea whores," I commented "So it's strumpets by the shore, is it?"

[millennium]

Every time I saw Michelle's model I thought, "This wasn't the design-an-outfit-that-Alyssa-can-wear-right-now challenge."

 

 

Ha!

Edited January 18, 2015 by millennium

[millennium]

I'm not about to argue the merits of Helena's dress, but unless the editing monkeys were really effing with us she was robbed.   The judges were falling over themselves praising her work, while they expressed reservations and criticisms about Dimitri's ... yet Dimitri wins?  

[sofaslug]

I was watching in HD, so did anyone else see the huge amount of loose threads hanging off Justin's outfit? If I remember correctly, they did ding him on construction.

I was was watching on a crappy, bajillion years old tv and saw those threads. I remember thinking I hope that isn't what he's considering Avant Garde.

[peachmangosteen]

Is he even using the right word? I keep thinking he means "androgynous," not "asexual," when he talks about wanting to create designs that aren't necessarily Female or Male in style.

 

This was driving me more insane than just the fact that he said 'asexual' 700 times. I do think he said androgynous at some point too though, so maybe he was trying to do an androgynous asexual thing. I don't know what about a pink backwards suit says asexual though.

 

I haven't watched PR at all since the first All Stars, but there isn't much on on Thursdays so I started watching this. It's awful, but it entertains me.

Edited January 18, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[wovenloaf]

I don't know what about a pink backwards suit says asexual though.

I didn't get that either. Maybe he was harkening back to ages ago when it was *new and different* for women to wear pants? Not sure how that is a remotely avant garde idea at this point in time though. The wide leg cut of the pants even seemed to basically just be a typical wide leg cut for women's dress pants you could find at any LOFT in America, albeit maybe with an exaggerated width.

[PepperMonkey]

"Sea whores" is the new "one way monkey."

 

Peachmangosteen, it IS awful but I can't stop watching it, either. I bitched like crazy when it was gone for 6 months or however long was their holiday break.

 

I actually found myself wondering when the next season of original recipe would begin; so much so that I googled and tried to find some info.

 

I'm reminding myself of the adage of the definition of insanity being doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, only in this case I'm watching every iteration of Project Runway hoping I'll love it again.

Edited January 18, 2015 by PepperMonkey

[kelslamu]

"Maternity fish costume" was the best line this week.  Hated Michelle's with a passion.  I don't get the gushing over Helen's either.  I thought (blanking on name, but did the backwards suit) put more thought into his than Michelle.  

Edited January 18, 2015 by kelslamu

[sofaslug]

Alyssa, what was that dress you were wearing on the runway??!  It looked better when she was sitting down as the giant skirt draped well, but not so well when standing.

That was bad and I was totally distracted by the horrible patterned dress she wore when telling them their challenge. That god-awful Rorschach ink blot pattern that settled on her crotch. My inner fifth-grader viewed it as an x-ray on her genitals. I'm also convinced, at this point, that she's carrying either a toddler or a pony.

[meep.meep]

Dmitri's refusal to buy into Zanna's babbling was great.

I'm glad Justin is gone. I've always found him kind of a snooze, and I'm over his excessive displays of emotion.

 

Zanna is the senior fashion editor for Marie Claire.  Isn't one of the prizes, a year working as a fashion editor at the magazine?  (After they drone through them week after week, you'd think I'd have it memorized by now.)  If so, the winner is probably going to be working closely wth, if not under, Zanna.  What Dmitry is doing is make someone look bad who he may end up working for.  At the least, she's not going to be rooting for him or doing him favors in the fashion world.  And, she is in a position to do so.

 

Dmitry won the regular show and his career hasn't gone anywhere.  Maybe he should try a different attitude towards those who might be able to help him.

[Kromm]

Also, while Zanna has probably dished out her share of bad advice, I certainly don't think it's been any more often than Tim Gunn has.  

 

Dmitry is kind of an ass.  He's always come off as one on this show.  That's not to say he doesn't design some good stuff, but Zanna's statement about him seeming arrogant may have had more of a basis than the single scene we saw leading up to that statement.  We don't know what was said AROUND that comment, or what other interactions he's had with Zanna.  We DO know he doesn't come off all that well often in the talking heads and candid interactions. It could just be Russian bluntness, or being caught up too much in producer laid Talking Head traps, but we just don't know.

[Surrealist]

I thought it was frayed when he purchased it and that was part of  the reason he picked it.

 

Thank you! I thought I was going crazy, but I recalled Justin picking out that fabric because it was frayed.

[kelslamu]

I think Michelle added the "Holy Picasso, Batman!" lip cause she knew her design was junk and needed the distraction.

[Julia]

Actually, Dmitry had a collection at Lord & Taylor and currently has his own clothing line in Russia. He's one of the most successful winners in the history of this show.

[paramitch]

Also, while Zanna has probably dished out her share of bad advice, I certainly don't think it's been any more often than Tim Gunn has.  

 

Dmitry is kind of an ass.  He's always come off as one on this show.  That's not to say he doesn't design some good stuff, but Zanna's statement about him seeming arrogant may have had more of a basis than the single scene we saw leading up to that statement.  We don't know what was said AROUND that comment, or what other interactions he's had with Zanna.  We DO know he doesn't come off all that well often in the talking heads and candid interactions. It could just be Russian bluntness, or being caught up too much in producer laid Talking Head traps, but we just don't know.

 

I just don't agree with this. Even when I disagreed with Tim, I could see where he was coming from.

 

I also adored Joanna Coles (far more than I expected to, honestly, given her chilly appearances as a guest judge). But as a mentor, she showed herself to be friendly, warm, supportive, knowledgeable, and absolutely committed to helping these people be creative and show their best selves.

 

I feel like, conversely, Zanna is out instead to come in and make a sound byte (one she has heavily practiced before entering the freaking room). I liked her as the talk show host who just swanned in and said vaguely enthusiastic things before the competitors entered to bitch among themselves, but as a mentor she's abysmal and worse, she doesn't seem to back up her advice with anything concrete. I mean, ever:

 

Every week, I'm still surprised to see you.

We need to see incredible strong looks...?

We're not fashion forward, we're fashion future..

Do not labor it.

Don't play it too safe.

I'm confused.

It needs to feel next level.

It has to be unconventional.

It's not fashion forward.

I'm being tough but there's potential here.

Think really carefully about your decisions here.

This challenge is such an important challenge.

Go with your gut!

You now have to make these works worthy.

 

I just think she is consistently so clumsy. She wants to be DYNAMIC! and RELEVANT! but all her advice moments are simply sound bytes that she has (all too obviously, in most cases) come up with in advance.

 

For me she is worse than no mentor at all. She has no investment in how they do and no demonstrable expertise in helping them to improve. I wanted to like her here (she was fun on the talk show) but she's just horrible and each season I am amazed they keep bringing her back. her conversation with Dmitry here was laughable.

[Mumbles]

Michelle is really the worst. Her response to the nail product lady's presentation (phony over the top eye roll enthusiasm as sarcasm) was just mean. I've seen her do that concerning the hair product people too. She thinks she's this rebel Portland hipster who's too good for middlebrow basic consumerism but guess what? You're on a friggin LIFETIME show, one you know involves a lot of produce placement, so don't think you're too cool for school.

Nicole Shrenxzade or whatever is in the same category as Snooki & her buddy as far as fashion expertise.

Ugh, so true, but at least they were animated unlike this one with the Kardashianesque dead eyes.

[heythere]

With that said, I'm fine with Justin going. Maybe it's something about a grown man constantly on the verge of tears? And Elvira called. She wants her look back.

In my opinion it has nothing to do with him being a grown man.....just the fact that he's always ready to cry. 

 

I really am questioning the judging in almost every episode of this season of All Stars. I mean, I'm no fashion expert but I don't get it. Dimitri's is avant garde? No. I need to detach myself I guess from who wins and who loses.

[HyeChaps]

My niece had her Sweet Sixteen at that aquarium.  Part of the festivities was taking three teenagers into that shark tank.  Helen was in no danger.

[wovenloaf]

I don't think Dmitri was rude to Zanna, at least in the part we saw. Having an opinion about your own work that is something other than "Oh, gosh, Zanna, yeah, my work IS subpar" isn't being rude. It is rude, however, to call someone arrogant just because they refuse to fall into an emotional hole every time you give them negative feedback. But who knows how that conversation actually went in real life. 

[carrps]

Michelle is really the worst. Her response to the nail product lady's presentation (phony over the top eye roll enthusiasm as sarcasm) was just mean. I've seen her do that concerning the hair product people too. She thinks she's this rebel Portland hipster who's too good for middlebrow basic consumerism but guess what? You're on a friggin LIFETIME show, one you know involves a lot of produce placement, so don't think you're too cool for school.

 

 

 

Didn't you know how rock-n-roll she is?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Yup, just like Frankie on The Real World: San Diego and Avril Lavigne were so punk rock!

[millennium]

Actually, Dmitry had a collection at Lord & Taylor and currently has his own clothing line in Russia. He's one of the most successful winners in the history of this show.

 

He's also kind of an asshole.

[Julia]

Could be. It's apparently not standing in his way.

[Raven1707]

I'm also convinced, at this point, that she's carrying either a toddler or a pony.

 

I'm thinking Pee-Wee football team.

[NikSac]

Every time I saw Michelle's model I thought, "This wasn't the design-an-outfit-that-Alyssa-can-wear-right-now challenge."

 

Too funny! I was thinking the exact same thing. The first time i saw the dress I thought "they should let Alyssa wear that!"  I thought it would have looked good on her.

[Madding crowd]

Zanna doesn't seem to make much sense, but Dimitry should listen to her, most of his clothes look very dated. And having his own clothing line in Russia, doesn't make him any more famous than Emilio Sosa who designs for broadway, Christian Sirano who has a beautiful and crazy line of dresses, Michael Costello who designs for the red carpet etc.

 

it seems the designers always want two days to do their outfits, then do no better than if they had one. I like PR's idea of Avant Garde because it means it doesn't have to be actually wearable, but none of the outfits appealed to me as a fantasy or as something one could wear. I thought Justin and Michelle had the most AG looks and i actually don't mind Justin's. Dimitry's cut out look was the same look he was doing a few years ago so how could it be fashion forward now?

 

And because it has to be said: Tom Cruise may have been the model for how the character of Aladdin looked, but the actual character is a literary creation which came out of the stories like Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves. Of course, maybe Cruise's spaceship went back in time and thus he really is Aladdin