Talking Dead: Where Chris Hardwick Got His Groove Back

[FortKnox]

Did anyone else notice that when Hardwick and YNB  joked about Judith's dad being the Punisher (Jon Bernthal), Gimple got defensive and shut it down real quick. My sister and I noticed it.

Or am I just seeing things?

[PrincessPurrsALot]

3 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

Yes.  But what was most curious was the under reaction. I can't even imagine YNB being that unmoved by this development in her earlier appearances.  Even Hardwick seemed a little off compared to earlier deaths.

Hardwick tried to cover by giving us the Monty Python "He's not dead yet!"  He's holding off his major grieving until Coral actually dies.  He'll have to poke himself in the leg or something to try to muster a pained look.    

[ghoulina]

9 hours ago, FortKnox said:

Did anyone else notice that when Hardwick and YNB  joked about Judith's dad being the Punisher (Jon Bernthal), Gimple got defensive and shut it down real quick. My sister and I noticed it.

Or am I just seeing things?

He did. But I actually agreed with what he was saying. And I hate Gimple with the fire of a thousand suns right now. It's funny to joke about Shane because we know that's who created Judith, but Rick IS her dad. He has raised her from day one. He has cried over her, searched for her, done anything and everything to protect her. I think that's what Gimple was getting at. That blood doesn't make family every time. But he's so fucking awkward, no one ever gets his point. 

10 hours ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

According to a recent interview, this was Gimple's idea.

I read both Chandler and Andy's responses and Andy seemed absolutely gutted. He said the same thing many of us have said, about Carl being the John Connor, the hope for the future. I don't think anyone on the cast would have ever expected this. This is some ratings grab that Gimple and Kirkman came up within in whatever teenage boy lair they sit around in, blowing each other and thinking up more ways to fuck this show up. 

[FortKnox]

20 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

He did. But I actually agreed with what he was saying. And I hate Gimple with the fire of a thousand suns right now. It's funny to joke about Shane because we know that's who created Judith, but Rick IS her dad. He has raised her from day one. He has cried over her, searched for her, done anything and everything to protect her. I think that's what Gimple was getting at. That blood doesn't make family every time. But he's so fucking awkward, no one ever gets his point. 

To me it just came off like Gimple didn't want to bring up Jon Bernthal, who was on the show when it was better and ran by Frank Darabont.

[ghoulina]

2 minutes ago, FortKnox said:

To me it just came off like Gimple didn't want to bring up Jon Bernthal, who was on the show when it was better and ran by Frank Darabont.

I didn't see that at all, but I guess it's possible. It's generally very hard to read Gimple because he's so twitchy and stammers all the time. He doesn't seem very articulate at all. But he said something about "biological", I thought, that got talked over. So I thought he was trying to make a point about that not necessarily mattering. 

PLEASE don't think I'm trying to defend Gimple, because I'm quite fed up with him. I just read that situation differently. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

And fuck you Gimple. Why the fuck does it have to be a secret when Carl got bit? What the fuck mystery could it be. It's just a stupid thing to hide.

I am so sick of Gimple being cagey and vague and defensive. I mean, I understand that he doesn't want to reveal anything about upcoming episodes, but when he was asked to confirm whether Carl was bit two episodes ago in the woods he wouldn't even commit to that! All he would say was "it happened on screen." Well thanks for nothing - is it a secret? WTH? It almost seems like he knows who badly the show is being criticized right now and is defensive about every little thing. 

[The Mighty Peanut]

Gimple couldn’t even commit to saying Carl is definitely dying. The closest he came is “we all know how walker bites play out. For right now he’s alive. How he spends his time will set the tone...” Hail Mary mother of God, just say he’s dying! He wouldn’t even say “how he spends his last days”. He’s fucking bit, he’s dead. Unless they’re going to go for a cure plot in which case I’ll eat Carl’s hat. Also, yeah, IMO he definitely got bit rescuing Siddiq and Rick will have a whole angst arc where he wants to kill the person Carl was bit protecting, but also wants to honor Carl by being humane and respecting his last act or some shit.

Gimple’s problem (one of them) is he is always thinking of trhree seasons in the future and it fucks up the now.

 

PS I thought Gimple looked pissed when YNB suggested they cut through his flank. But she had a point. Carl wouldn’t be walking around if his liver had gotten chomped on. Conceivably it could be a flesh wound (insert your Monty Python joke here). Anyway Pimple was like “They can’t cut out his flank” and seemed irritated.

Edited December 11, 2017 by The Mighty Peanut

[ljenkins782]

58 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I am so sick of Gimple being cagey and vague and defensive. I mean, I understand that he doesn't want to reveal anything about upcoming episodes, but when he was asked to confirm whether Carl was bit two episodes ago in the woods he wouldn't even commit to that! All he would say was "it happened on screen." Well thanks for nothing - is it a secret? WTH? It almost seems like he knows who badly the show is being criticized right now and is defensive about every little thing. 

If it happened (note the past tense) onscreen, why the hell can't he talk about it? 

Unless this:

Quote

Also, yeah, IMO he definitely got bit rescuing Siddiq and Rick will have a whole angst arc where he wants to kill the person Carl was bit protecting, but also wants to honor Carl by behind humane and respecting his last act or some shit.

is where they're heading next season (they did show Rick seeing Siddiq in the sewer and Carl saying that he brought him there) and somehow Gimple thinks this will be a big "reveal." Admittedly, I'd already forgotten that scene with Siddiq/Carl and was wondering how the hell he got bit inside Alexandria, lol. But that's just me and my short attention span, I'm sure people who actually watch closely realized that right away. 

Quote

To me it just came off like Gimple didn't want to bring up Jon Bernthal, who was on the show when it was better and ran by Frank Darabont

It does seem to make like the show goes out of its way not to bring Shane/Jon Bernthal up. Jon Bernthal certainly has enough going on in his post-WD career, so perhaps he wouldn't have wanted to come back/appear on video for the big 100th episode celebration, but for such a major character in the first 2 seasons, he sure seems to be scrubbed from the history books. 

Perhaps I only care because Shane is my forever favorite character on the show, but when so many characters who had less to do in their seasons showed back up, it seemed like a big omission.

[peach]

2 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

It does seem to make like the show goes out of its way not to bring Shane/Jon Bernthal up. Jon Bernthal certainly has enough going on in his post-WD career, so perhaps he wouldn't have wanted to come back/appear on video for the big 100th episode celebration, but for such a major character in the first 2 seasons, he sure seems to be scrubbed from the history books. 

Perhaps I only care because Shane is my forever favorite character on the show, but when so many characters who had less to do in their seasons showed back up, it seemed like a big omission.

You never really see any of the Darabont people, except for Lori, she did a video chat, and that's it.  But Laurie Holden is also NEVER mentioned or appears on these things, and neither does Dale, who specifically asked to be written out when Darabont left.  So maybe Jon is in that camp?

Shane is my favorite, too.  I want him to haunt Rick now when Carl dies.

[ljenkins782]

18 hours ago, peach said:

You never really see any of the Darabont people, except for Lori, she did a video chat, and that's it.  But Laurie Holden is also NEVER mentioned or appears on these things, and neither does Dale, who specifically asked to be written out when Darabont left.  So maybe Jon is in that camp?
 

I actually had to look Laurie Holden up because I never knew Andrea's real name, lol. But yes, that is another huge glaring hole in TWD history, she was there even longer than Shane. 

Quote

Shane is my favorite, too.  I want him to haunt Rick now when Carl dies.

Lol. You know Shane would have shot Siddiq on sight, so one could argue that if Shane had lived, Carl lives. (Not that Siddiq deserved to die, but Shane would have made sure he'd never get the chance to lead Carl into the woods to get bit for no good reason.) 

As for TTD, unless he chose not to be on for this one, it's BS that Chandler Riggs wasn't there. Fine that he'll be there for the opener in February, but THIS was the big reveal for his character. Perhaps he didn't want to share the couch with Gimple.

[peach]

2 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

As for TTD, unless he chose not to be on for this one, it's BS that Chandler Riggs wasn't there. Fine that he'll be there for the opener in February, but THIS was the big reveal for his character. Perhaps he didn't want to share the couch with Gimple.

I think maybe they didn't want Chandler getting pestered with questions about what will happen before Carl dies, I mean, he could go kamikaze to save the day or something.  And they want to make sure people come back and watch the Feb episode of both shows.  I mean, I will watch TTD if Chandler is there to say his goodbye*.  If it had been this week, I would probably forget this show even existed by Feb.  So they are keeping us on the hook, like they did with Glenn.

I'm sure, though, he doesn't want to have to sit next to Gimple and lie about what a great, courageous writing decision this was.
 

*I'm sure we will have to rely on some random youtuber to get any kind of proper Carl montage, however.

Edited December 12, 2017 by peach

[Madding crowd]

I thought Hardwick's reaction was odd and so was Yvette's. There was none of the "Let us help you through this" stuff and no one would come out and say Carl is basically dead. I also didn't understand Gimple refusing to specify when Carl was actually bit. I understand he is not truly dead yet, but it was more of a death then Glen being trapped on the dumpster. Gimble also implied there would be more of Carl's story-but if he is infected and dying how more could there be? He already wrote goodbye notes, and is clearing becoming quite ill. 

All in all, I thought everyone seemed pretty upbeat considering a child/teen character has received a fatal bite.

[Nashville]

2 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I thought Hardwick's reaction was odd and so was Yvette's. There was none of the "Let us help you through this" stuff and no one would come out and say Carl is basically dead.

Personally, I thought both Hardwick and YNB were keeping the stoppers in their bottles pretty tight because they were both PISSED - and if they started talking about it too much, that anger was liable to boil over righteous.

[DEL901]

6 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

As for TTD, unless he chose not to be on for this one, it's BS that Chandler Riggs wasn't there. Fine that he'll be there for the opener in February, but THIS was the big reveal for his character. Perhaps he didn't want to share the couch with Gimple.

I actually think it makes sense he wasn't there.  If he was, it would be all about things he can't talk about until, presumably after the MSP, since that's when he's on TTD.

[SimoneS]

53 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

I actually think it makes sense he wasn't there.  If he was, it would be all about things he can't talk about until, presumably after the MSP, since that's when he's on TTD.

ITA. It seems like Chandler is going to be on the show for quite a while more, whether because Carl dying is going to take a while or because of flashbacks so there is no point of him going on TD when he cannot talk about his story. Also, I expect when he does appear that it will be a big deal with several members of the main cast appearing with him and this will take awhile to schedule.

[SnarkyTart]

22 hours ago, SimoneS said:

ITA. It seems like Chandler is going to be on the show for quite a while more, whether because Carl dying is going to take a while or because of flashbacks so there is no point of him going on TD when he cannot talk about his story.

Chandler and Hardwick seem to be having a bit of fun with this - see below image which Chandler posted and Hardwick copied to his own facebook page.  I agree with the speculation above that several high profile fans of the show, including Yvette and Hardwick himself, seem to be rather pissed off, but controlling it. 

 

[Smad]

Aww. Don't we all love romancing our parents?

[SnarkyTart]

1 hour ago, Smad said:

Aww. Don't we all love romancing our parents?

Yasss.  From season 3 episode 10 "Home" in which Rick wanders around having visions of dead Lori

Edited December 14, 2017 by SnarkyTart

[iMonrey]

Quote

I thought Hardwick's reaction was odd and so was Yvette's. There was none of the "Let us help you through this" stuff and no one would come out and say Carl is basically dead. 

Probably because he's technically not dead yet. They have to save that reaction for the actual death scene.

[ghoulina]

15 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Probably because he's technically not dead yet. They have to save that reaction for the actual death scene.

Which is why the whole thing makes me so angry. When they revealed the bite, tears came to my eyes and I started shaking my head "no" over and over. But then the show was over, and I didn't get to grieve fully. When he comes back next half, we'll already know he's dying, so it's going to be very anti-climactic. It's sort of like when I lost my shit over Glenn being "dead" the first time. That really robbed me of the emotional impact I should have had when Negan killed him. I think it's really unfair to Chandler and the viewers, the way they set it up like this. No one can really talk about the impact of it, because we know it's happening, but it has yet to happen. 

[The Mighty Peanut]

Chandler Riggs confirms he's definitely really most sincerely dead, and confirms where the bite occurred (Siddiq in the woods). https://nerdist.com/the-walking-dead-hows-it-gotta-be-recap-carl/

 

Take that, Gimple, you vague bastard.

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Peanut said:

Chandler Riggs confirms he's definitely really most sincerely dead, and confirms where the bite occurred (Siddiq in the woods). https://nerdist.com/the-walking-dead-hows-it-gotta-be-recap-carl/

 

Take that, Gimple, you vague bastard.

My only tiny niggle in my mind

Game of Thrones spoilers through season 7

Spoiler

Kit Harrington lied his ass off for months re Jon Snow. I don't think that is the case with Carl. It's just the only thing I can hold on to for the moment

[The Mighty Peanut]

On 12/14/2017 at 11:22 AM, ghoulina said:

Which is why the whole thing makes me so angry. When they revealed the bite, tears came to my eyes and I started shaking my head "no" over and over. But then the show was over, and I didn't get to grieve fully. When he comes back next half, we'll already know he's dying, so it's going to be very anti-climactic. It's sort of like when I lost my shit over Glenn being "dead" the first time. That really robbed me of the emotional impact I should have had when Negan killed him. I think it's really unfair to Chandler and the viewers, the way they set it up like this. No one can really talk about the impact of it, because we know it's happening, but it has yet to happen. 

 

ITA. One thing Gimple excels at is taking away the emotional impact of a death. It's like he wants us all to pee our pants, but instead we feel like we're in a dream wearing no pants and vaguely wondering why.  Even with Beth (who I didn't love) it was like wait what she "knows what to do" and blammo she's dead. At least then we had Maggie/Rick/Daryl reacting to give us feels. But the death was so abrupt. I'd say "good" deaths were Andrea, Ty, Sasha, and Bob, to name a few.

I will say ONE good thing--Michonne can make good on her promise to put Carl down before he turns. Unless they want walker Carl. Ugh, don't let that happen.

[ghoulina]

Lori's death had a strong impact and was very well done, IMO. Merle's and Hershel's too. But since those early seasons, deaths have been too OTT or barely a whimper. This show has totally regressed in Gimple's hands. 

[Gobi]

Just as with Abe's and Glenn's deaths, much of the impact of Carl's death will be lost by having it take place after a break. It would have been much effective if he had died this episode.

[ParadoxLost]

I still believe that Gimple wants the reputation that no one is safe but they are afraid of the consequences.  That is why the blunt the impact of every major death by doing a test run (Glenn), doing it over a break (Carl), or making them actively unlikeable (Andrea).

The show would be much better if they kept it tighter and didn't try so hard to lessen the blowback of fan favorites dying.

[tv echo]

I may be in the minority on this, but I don't want to watch a show where long-time characters are killed off, regardless of how "real" that makes a show about zombies. I've always hated zombie movies. But then I stumbled onto TWD midway through its first season and ended up going back and watching from the beginning and then ever since. Why? I became invested in the characters and their journey through this horrific new world. If everyone from S1 dies, then what was the point of my watching from the beginning? Watch a show where everyone eventually becomes zombie chow? No, I want to watch a show where they somehow triumph and adapt. Sure, there will be some casualties along the way, but if everyone I invested in from the beginning dies, then TWD just becomes another crap zombie show.

I think that Gimple and AMC want the franchise to be bigger than any individual cast members. They want the actors to be fungible - where they can eliminate, add and replace cast members at will without affecting the show's ratings, thereby allowing TWD to continue for a long, long time (like Law and Order, which ran for 20 years). That way, they don't have to renegotiate actor contracts, negotiate renewal contracts or increase any actor salaries. Bottom line motive is money. But they are concerned about fan backlash, so they're doing it in steps. The show survived Glenn's death. Now it's Carl's turn. Next will be Carol, Darryl or Rick. Eventually, no one from S1 will be left. You would think that Fear the Walking Dead would've shown Gimple and AMC that cast members are not fungible. But maybe FTWD ratings are good enough for them.

Edited December 19, 2017 by tv echo

[ghoulina]

6 hours ago, tv echo said:

. If everyone from S1 dies, then what was the point of my watching from the beginning?

Exactly. I'm okay with SOME big character deaths, but they don't need to go hog wild proving that "everyone is expendable". I would rather handwave how many times Rick has narrowly escaped death than lose the connection to the show from these characters that have been around since day one. The Atlanta Five has now dwindled down to three. THREE. It's ridiculous. 

[SimoneS]

On 12/19/2017 at 2:50 PM, ghoulina said:

Exactly. I'm okay with SOME big character deaths, but they don't need to go hog wild proving that "everyone is expendable". I would rather handwave how many times Rick has narrowly escaped death than lose the connection to the show from these characters that have been around since day one. The Atlanta Five has now dwindled down to three. THREE. It's ridiculous. 

I am the opposite. As much as it hurts, I am fine with the main characters, even the ones that I love dying as it raises the stakes as every moment is meaningful. My problem is when their deaths aren't avenged. I expect people who kill the characters that I care about to suffer. 

It is funny how some people used to complain that the claim that "anyone could die" wasn't true because some characters like Rick, Carl, Michonne, Daryl, and Maggie were obviously safe. 

[nodorothyparker]

A big character death here or there wouldn't upset so many people, I think, if they took the time to give them a proper sendoff AND allowed for organic grieving when it happened and not after a long break or a season or two later when the writers remember oh hey, Maggie lost someone she hasn't so much as acknowledged in months too.  Let's milk that now.  It would also likely go down easier if the show was taking the time to introduce and develop new characters we actually care about to take their places.  Right now, the only characters introduced since maybe season 3-4 that I'm actually invested in are Ezekiel and Jerry.  Oh, and I guess I maybe don't hate Dwight but I'd hardly call it an investment.

We're waaay off topic for the thread, but for me it boils down to the reality that with the writing so abysmal now for awhile the only thing keeping me hanging in are the characters I've followed for seasons who are still around.  Remove them from the equation and what does that leave me?

[Armchair Critic]

Fuck you showrunners acting sad about getting rid of Chandler (Carl). 

[raven]

Is Nicotero taking hair care tips from Norman Reedus?

[chick binewski]

OK this kind of sucks not only because Carl is gone but Chandler is a young guy who lasted eight seasons (!) on this show but they're making it too maudlin!

I love the portrait bit Melissa McBride shared. 

[raven]

I noticed the wall poster is of Carl, nice touch.

The emotional bits would have meant more if we didn't already have months to process it, jeez.

[peach]

It was cute seeing Enid talking about doing homework together.

Wow, Chris is really tying himself into a pretzel trying to justify this idiotic story.

[chick binewski]

OK this is getting better. The early interview with Hardwick was so cute and I liked the question about whether Chandler was disappointed he didn't get to be a walker.

Also, Nicotero's "Contact, not contacts"? Ded.

[nodorothyparker]

The maudlin death montage was supposed to be touching, I think, but since nearly all the clips they included were of the many many times Carl didn't stay in the house, all I can do is snicker a bit that in the end not staying where he was supposed to be is what did him in.

[peach]

4 minutes ago, chick binewski said:

OK this is getting better. The early interview with Hardwick was so cute

"WHAT was Dale even doing walking out in that field in the middle of the night?" lol  I also loved his story about getting to shoot all the prison walkers with a machine gun on his 14th birthday.

[peach]

Well, Chandler seems a genuinely charming and sweet guy.  I think Chris and the cast's affection for him was for real.  Wishing him the best. 

[TrininisaScorp]

I found it sweet!  Chandler (and his WAY BETTER hair) looks so grown up and ready to move forward.   I hope he really did buy one of those Elon blowtorches.  LOL.  

That said, I find it telling that Greg had to take the "creator" bullet on this episode for a decision seemingly made by Gimple and the other writers.  IMO, they didn't try to justify the killing of Carl and the presence of Negan.  Greg seemed to talk around it, and Chris seemed genuinely choked up. 

I loved the montage of watching this wittle baby grow up, and the cast pieces were sweet.  

[rmontro]

21 minutes ago, TrininisaScorp said:

I found it sweet!  Chandler (and his WAY BETTER hair) looks so grown up and ready to move forward.

About the only comfort I find in any of this is that Chandler is at least getting out of the show at just the right time.  I see Carl's death as the point at which this show takes a huge nosedive.  Telling that Gimple didn't have the courage to show his face tonight.

[tv echo]

Neither Scott Gimple nor Robert Kirkman had the guts to show up on The Talking Dead with Chandler Riggs.

Edited February 26, 2018 by tv echo

[nachomama]

Hasn't Scott Gimple already been fired as Showrunner? Gimple is "chief content officer", maybe lateral move? He's techinically over Fear the Walking Dead too

[peach]

5 hours ago, tv echo said:

Neither Scott Gimple nor Robert Kirkman had the guts to show up on The Talking Dead with Chandler Riggs.

I would have found that adding insult to injury on Carl's special night.  It was bad enough watching Nicotero doing damage control.  Chris disapprovingly mentioned the horrible fantasy Negan flashback twice, and Nicotero just totally ignored it and talked about something else.  It felt like he was sort of watching Chandler to make sure everyone said the right things.  Chris giving Chandler a hug goodbye was emotional.  But at least Chandler seems happy, and will probably still get to appear at the cons and stuff and stay in touch.

[ghoulina]

Damn, I'm mad I didn't think to record this. I am done watching the show, but I recorded last night's episode, because I felt I owed it to Carl to see his death. After that, I'm out. For good. It depresses me to say that, as I once loved this show sooo much. But I just can't. I totally didn't think that Chandler would likely be on TTD, and didn't even bother to record it. Now I wish I could have seen his send off. He has always seemed like such a good kid. I wish him well. 

[Anela]

4 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Damn, I'm mad I didn't think to record this. I am done watching the show, but I recorded last night's episode, because I felt I owed it to Carl to see his death. After that, I'm out. For good. It depresses me to say that, as I once loved this show sooo much. But I just can't. I totally didn't think that Chandler would likely be on TTD, and didn't even bother to record it. Now I wish I could have seen his send off. He has always seemed like such a good kid. I wish him well. 

I think it's on the AMC site. I checked earlier, and saw something that expires at some point. Unless it's just highlights.

I visited the site, thinking about watching the episode, but I haven't. 

[rmontro]

10 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I totally didn't think that Chandler would likely be on TTD, and didn't even bother to record it. 

It's kind of a cliche that the actor shows up on Talking Dead right after the episode, so I'm surprised you didn't think he would be on it.  I hope you can find some other way to watch it.

They showed some unaired footage from the first interview Hardwick did with Chandler.  Riggs seemed so happy and upbeat on the set of the show, like he was having a blast.  Compare that to his somber demeanor on last night's show, there was a huge difference.  I thought he looked kind of sad, almost like he had a tear in his eye that was almost ready to fall. 

[SnarkyTart]

12 hours ago, peach said:

Nicotero just totally ignored it and talked about something else.  It felt like he was sort of watching Chandler to make sure everyone said the right things. 

I agree, it did look that way.  The whole thing felt forced and awkward to me.  Most of all, I feel cheated because I soo wanted Yvette Nicole Brown and Gimple to be guests so we could watch her make him cry like baby Judith.   We deserved that.

[peach]

9 hours ago, rmontro said:

 I thought he looked kind of sad, almost like he had a tear in his eye that was almost ready to fall. 

I think he was just genuinely moved and maybe even surprised by the outpouring of love and affection he's received.  Leaving the show, etc., happened a while back for him, and he seems pretty excited about living his new life in LA, at the age when most people are branching out and trying new things.  His twitter feed is pretty funny.  But damn it must feel good to be vindicated, when the whole world thinks they did you wrong!

[gutbuster]

On 2/26/2018 at 2:26 PM, ghoulina said:

Damn, I'm mad I didn't think to record this. I am done watching the show, but I recorded last night's episode, because I felt I owed it to Carl to see his death. After that, I'm out. For good. It depresses me to say that, as I once loved this show sooo much. But I just can't. I totally didn't think that Chandler would likely be on TTD, and didn't even bother to record it. Now I wish I could have seen his send off. He has always seemed like such a good kid. I wish him well. 

22 hours ago, Anela said:

I think it's on the AMC site. I checked earlier, and saw something that expires at some point. Unless it's just highlights.

I visited the site, thinking about watching the episode, but I haven't. 

 

I'm fairly certain they also replay Talking Dead on AMC late Saturday night after they rerun the episode.