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Talking Dead: Where Chris Hardwick Got His Groove Back

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I've been really thinking over this whole issue, and I do think it's a very grey area. I am a woman, I have been abused, and I've been hesitant to express my thoughts on this, because there are other communities where people are getting banned from groups for even questioning her account, or are being told they must be abusers themselves for not believing her.

But I admit, I don't like how this whole issue was presented. I know nothing about Chloe, and what she may have gone through. I do believe that they apparently had a very toxic and unbalanced relationship. His response was not good.

But some of her complaints are nothing more than crappy behaviours from a partner, or things that can be seen in different views. Do we all post about our bad relationships on social media? I guess these days we do.

As a recovering alcoholic myself, I have asked SOs to not drink around me. Ordered it? No, but I would not be comfortable with alcohol in my/our house. Going out to dinner and he's on his phone? Rude, but not unusual. Being weird that people are listening to their conversations in public? Paranoid, but I get it. Did he yell, insult and berate her? Was it one-sided or ugly all around? Gross, but not criminal. 

Her most serious complaints are their sexual relationship and whether he blackballed her from the industry. It sounds like there are witnesses to the blackballing, according to her BF, who has his own icky dick-pic sending past many years ago. 

The sexual relationship sounds unhealthy, absolutely. She talks about being punished. How? Can she make a civil case somehow? I'm not sure how that works.

But I don't like how she put all the info out there, but didn't name him. Is she afraid of being accused of defamation? If she has proof, and certainly if she has proof of anything criminal, she should pursue legal action in some way. She should show the evidence. But she says she won't because she's hoping he's a better person who won't sue her, or something? The ending just read weird.

I don't know, I do think I'll get attacked for this post, but I also have never been a fan of the court of public opinion. It's not new, but I don't like it. But at the same time, I acknowledge that much abuse (especially emotional), and harassment is behind closed doors, with no witnesses. 

I feel for her, but like the post above says, is being a shitty boyfriend years ago worthy of having your career ended? He really can't do much either. He's toast for now. And I've seen a few people say that even if he's innocent, he just needs to apologize and hope it goes away.

I don't know what the best solution is for these situations. 

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2 hours ago, nachomama said:

There was a big age difference between them

Not surprising that little dweeb would want a young girl, someone he felt he could control and make him feel like he has some cojones. They both wanted something, and as Judge Judy tells whining women who complain and sue their loser, jerk boyfriends - "You picked him and you stayed with him. Why are you bothering me with this!"

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2 hours ago, luna1122 said:

She calls them sexual assaults but then states "To be fair, I did go along with it out of fear of losing him". This is awfully murky. Having sex when you don't feel like but going along with it for fear of losing your partner is gross and sad and weird, but I'm not ready to call it rape. 

This is one of my primary sticking points as well.  By definition, sexual assault is forcing sexual activity upon a person contrary to their will.  If Chloe never voiced such contrariness of will - i.e., she never told Chris “no” - then how could subsequent sexual activity be construed as “assault”?

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This all could have been avoided two weeks after the relationship started when he allegedly laid down the law.

"Dude, Rules? Like those? I wanna be with you but not like that.  I wish you well, have a nice life."

Edited by Giselle
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First of all, I don't know this guy from Adam. We don't get Talking Dead here and I only heard about this guy doing Comic Con panels or what not. And I'm not familiar with US laws but...since when is it 'guilty until proven innocent'? In most laws of the Western World it's 'innocent until proven guilty'. From what I understand, she didn't even name drop this guy. Everyone just assumes. But suddenly his career is in shambles even though nothing is officially proven?

How the heck did it come to this? Now every woman in the business or married into it or whose boyfriend is in it comes out with allegations even if it was a decade or longer ago? And they are all believed to be telling the truth why exactly? Just because of the lack of a penis? Because women never ever lie for any reason? I'm sorry but wth? Some of them are not doing ACTUAL victims any favors. Quite the opposite actually.

Actual victims who couldn't get out of things like abuse or who were harassed or sexually assaulted with no way to prevent it...this will just ensure in the long run that we are back to 'no one believes them'. And really, especially in all these Hollywood cases, a lot of these women had choices. And most of them chose to keep their mouths shut for years, didn't come forward, chose to stay in the business and often chose to work repeatedly with the people who have harmed them. They also chose to put their safety and health at risk for some fame and said to hell with my dignity. And they sure as hell ensured there will be more victims when they kept quiet.

In terms of this woman, from what I have read she exercised her free will in this relationship at every step. She chose to be with him despite knowing his relationship expectations which she herself stated she knew like 2 weeks into the relationship.

“To be fair, I did go along with it out of fear of losing him.” is her reason for staying with him. Well honey, you said yes. Does yes suddenly mean no?

And what's with the rest of her excuses? 'I quietly posted...'. Right because the internet is so quiet when it comes to #metoo. She didn't want to name him because she didn't want the Nerdist people to suffer. Erm, the guy has other projects going where people are also employed. And they probably will suffer from this. So this excuse doesn't make a lick of sense, unless her goal is protecting herself from defamation charges. And her threatening to release evidence should he get law enforcement involved. Aren't black mail and extortion illegal?

This sounds like a highly dysfunctional relationship between two people (probably due to age difference) where one chose to get a little publicity (doesn't she have her first high profile movie coming out?) out of it, probably also expecting some nice cash and it's made easy for her thanks to the current #metoo climate.

Edited by Smad
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39 minutes ago, Smad said:

“To be fair, I did go along with it out of fear of losing him.” is her reason for staying with him. Well honey, you said yes.

She chose to "go along with it." That was her choice - the choice of a grown woman who presumbly is of sound mind and body. Why the hell is she bitching about it now? What are men going to do? Have a chaperon present if they have a cup of coffee with a woman, to make sure she can't yell (or tweet or twitter or FB) later that he touched her inappropriately or verbally/emotionally/mentally abused her? I know full well that true harassment and abuse occur, but I just can't wrap my mind around the fact that a woman can wreck a man's life after she willingly went to a hotel room with him. "Oh, I thought we were going to a screening room! I really wanted the job so I said nothing when I saw it was his room and when he touched me, and undressed me and massaged me and had sex with me, I just didn't understand what was happening." OH, STFU.

 

42 minutes ago, Smad said:

This sounds like a highly dysfunctional relationship between two people (probably due to age difference) where one chose to get a little publicity (doesn't she have her first high profile movie coming out?) out of it, probably also expecting some nice cash and it's made easy for her thanks to the current #metoo climate.

Exactly. It's perfectly in tune with the rest of nuttiness, where if you say anything that is not completely inoffensive to anyone/any living creature on the planet or even have thoughts that are non-generic you will have your career ended and/or your life ruined in the name of political correctness. I said many years ago that this was going to destroy civilization and I'm not happy that seems to be coming true. Name-calling (yes, something that children do) is now seemingly a felony. Sorry, but I feel really strongly about this.

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On 6/17/2018 at 11:45 PM, Iguessnot said:

The aim of her narrative was clear but what struck me most was this twenty something telling us she's woman enough to hook up with older men, but continues on several years in a relationship that was lousy from the start. After seeking therapy and talking with friends, she doesn't think she was a bit stupid or lacking good judgement. We just get some snowflake analogy about digging for water.  They weren't married so there was no commitment to uphold. She says the list of rules she needed to follow to stay in the relationship were set two weeks in. Per her description, he sounds like a pig and his list of demands unacceptable, but it was truth in advertising from the get go, so get. I really don't respect "a warning" from someone who took crap from day one claiming she only wanted him to love her like she loved him. 

 

My mother was the strongest woman I knew, but she stayed with a sociopath (he was actually a sociopath), much longer than she should have. He almost drove her insane - she admitted to me that she spoke to a woman at a hotline in England, I don't know how many times, but once she finally extricated herself (and us kids) from that relationship, they met somewhere for coffee. I didn't trust the guy from the start, and he has affected my entire life, although I tried to not have that be the case.

I'm tired of the whole "snowflake" thing. I refuse to be around my BIL, because he hit on me more than once, starting years ago, and caused so much trouble between me and my sister. In my whole family, actually - and for some reason, she went along with it, married him, and turned against me. My life was absolute hell, and has never come back from that (I was getting beaten up occasionally, harassed almost every day, had most of the family turned against me, because hey! Marriage was now happening. I needed to get over it! for my sister. Not once was she expected to get over the fact that I do not want to be around him, and that I have a right to my boundaries. We had a relationship - my sister and I - for less than eighteen months, after my mum died. We reconciled in June 2016, spent a month together after my mum died. She came home twice more in November and April, and by October 2017, she ditched me again, because she expected her husband to be invited here, and I can't be around him. He knew what he was doing the entire time, for years and years. I will not be under the same roof as him again. I'm not over any of it. I probably never will be.

On 6/18/2018 at 10:52 AM, misstwpherecool said:

She popped into my head as soon as the question came up what will they do. I'm surprised YNB hasn't been given a greater role by now regardless of recent events. 

I think Ms Chloe definitely believes her story. I can't picture her putting herself on a limb to anonymously trash Hardwick. The next step is more 'evidence' or just admit it's about him.

I think her boyfriend said something directly to Hardwick. 

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2 hours ago, mandolin said:

The last four sentences of this article succinctly sum up my feelings - and concerns - on this particular case:

 

Quote

 

It’s scary that a man can be convicted and punished without a trial or as much as a thorough hearing.

#MeToo developed as a movement in which people might find empowerment by standing up to abusers. Now it’s being used as a cudgel for aggrieved parties to exact revenge.

It disturbs me, and I worry that as more people, most of them women, abuse this power, and if more outlets fire employees without vetting the accusations, the public will start disbelieving all accounts of abuse.

 

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9 hours ago, Nashville said:

The last four sentences of this article succinctly sum up my feelings - and concerns - on this particular case:

And exactly what I've been saying since all this brouhaha started:

Quote

It’s scary that a man can be convicted and punished without a trial or as much as a thorough hearing.

Not even in small claims court where you may be seeking a few hundred bucks to fix your car someone vandalized will you get a cent without proof that person did it. Sexual assault? Nope, no evidence at all required, no proof requested. We'll just take every word as gospel from anyone who pops up out of the woodwork and points a finger, because... "New Rule" and if you don't go along with it you must be a misogynistic, un-PC monster.

Maybe I can't stand Hardwick, but that doesn't mean he should be banished from the planet because one woman says "He was mean to me for the whole three years I stayed with him."

What's to stop any woman, whose celebrity boyfriend dumped her, cheated on her or even *gasp* "body shamed" her from destroying his life? This is so Orwellian.

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41 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Not even in small claims court where you may be seeking a few hundred bucks to fix your car someone vandalized will you get a cent without proof that person did it. Sexual assault? Nope, no evidence at all required, no proof requested. We'll just take every word as gospel from anyone who pops up out of the woodwork and points a finger, because... "New Rule" and if you don't go along with it you must be a misogynistic, un-PC monster.

Maybe I can't stand Hardwick, but that doesn't mean he should be banished from the planet because one woman says "He was mean to me for the whole three years I stayed with him."

What's to stop any woman, whose celebrity boyfriend dumped her, cheated on her or even *gasp* "body shamed" her from destroying his life? This is so Orwellian.

That automatic assumption of guilt is unfortunately the norm for many - including, also unfortunately, my wife. :P  They say being the victim of such behavior is so traumatic that if the victim gathers up enough courage to come forward and name their assailant, the charge MUST be true; they appear to have some kind of mental blind spot against taking into account the notion a false charge involves zero associated trauma.  Me, I’d assume the stats on false #MeToo charges are pretty much identical to those of false rape charges, which independent analysis has put at 2-10% of reported cases.  This does mean the vast majority of cases are probably well-founded, but it also means a statistically significant portion are not - enough so that automatic assumptions of guilt without investigation are not warranted.

I’d be reasonably certain virtually all the initial reported cases were true, insofar as in #MeToo’s earliest days the initial accusers had no clue what kind of personal blowback they might suffer from their accusations - THOSE are the accusers I would consider as unquestionably brave.  As #MeToo has entered the mainstream and its track record of supportive response has become well-established in the public massmind, however, my natural cynicism leads me to expect a certain portion of the population will seek to exploit #MeToo for their own personal gain - revenge against an ex who spurned them, publicity boost for a dead or flagging career, etc.

Which is one of the reasons I like dogs better than people.

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I didn't really want to weigh in on this because I don't know either of these people from Adam but is this story -- other than the very vague claims of stifling her career* post-breakup - really a MeToo story? 

I've met very few couples that have broken up with no bitterness towards each other.  Clearly, their relationship went toxic - either from the beginning because he was selfish and controlling or later because of her infidelities.  But she herself says that her main allegation - bad and unsatisfying consensual sex inside a 3 year relationship - was not assault and was consented to by her.  Since this also doesn't involve any workplace harassment or invading a stranger's personal space, is this really part of the MeToo movement?  If he hadn't discovered her cheating, wouldn't they still be (perhaps unhappily) together?  Yes, he was more successful and 17 years older than her but she was prettier than he was handsome so it's not obvious to me (an outsider) who had the power inside their relationship.

*Also, this is uncharitable but how is cosplay a career? How did Hardwick supposedly destroy it? And isn't she set to have her first professional movie acting credit this year?) 

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I don't even know who she is. What bothers me, is the automatic defense of HIM, and saying that #metoo has gone too far. If she lied, then I'm going to be pissed, because women are always punished in some way for coming forward. It took me two months to say something to my sister, and that was only when I begged my mum not to let him back here for another month, for Christmas and New Year's. She knew I was acting odd, when she found me outside that night he first tried to sleep with me, and I ran away), but he'd prepared a story for her, so I was told that I was delusional. When she decided to admit that it did happen, excuses were made, like he lived on a commune for a while, so he thought that was normal. Shit like that. I had to put up with him for about a month after that first time (he's from Canada), and he started a huge argument, three weeks later, because I was avoiding him. Women are to be treated like shit, and not believed - and we aren't supposed to have boundaries. As I mentioned before, I've been punished repeatedly, for just not wanting to be around him. Even after he admitted to it, and called me "sexy" week before he married my sister. He utterly destroyed my life, without raping me, and I was close to suicide. I hate to think what dealing with any of that would have been like, if I had been raped.

Okay, I'm a feminist, and an SJW, so I'm out. My mother was raped by another fiance of hers, but she didn't report it, because at that time, it wouldn't have been seen as a crime. Because they slept together, so it wasn't unusual (you know, except for her recovering from surgery, and his being insecure because my dad was spending the holidays with us). 

This is why *I* prefer animals to people. 

Edited by Anela
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28 minutes ago, Anela said:

I don't even know who she is. What bothers me, is the automatic defense of HIM, and saying that #metoo has gone too far. If she lied, then I'm going to be pissed, because women are always punished in some way for coming forward.

I'm not defending him because frankly in the end, I don't care. I don't know him. I reserve my care for friends and family. And if I happen to see a person in need...or an animal. The problem I have is how someone, or lets limit it to any MAN, can lose their reputation, job or even freedom (because that will be the next step) without any proof. Simply based on he said-she said. Guilty until proven innocent. Without this woman actually naming him outright. And without her presenting any proof. Hell in her initial blog post, she pretty much threatened him not to get authorities involved because she 'has proof'. What screwed up mental gymnastics is she attempting or simply blackmailing? If she has proof of illegal conduct on his end, she has to hand it over to authorities anyway so they can investigate in order to validate her claims. Hello! There is still the law in place and that one states 'innocent until proven guilty'. He's not been charged with anything, he has not been convicted of anything...yet his career is effectively over even if he is found innocent.

If she is a victim, fine. But I want to see some proof first. Because wrongful accusations also won't help women. If the climate is that any woman can claim this stuff, even outside of Hollywood, by simply making a big social media fuss about it, and ruin any man's life/career...who is going to hire women for jobs? If guilt doesn't need to be proven anymore, as a boss I'd rather avoid all the bad publicity (for allegedly allowing misconduct to happen), the possible lawsuit for wrongful termination of a job (if man is found innocent) and so forth. I wouldn't hire a woman in the current climate. If all it takes now is for a woman to say so, this will not help help women, actual victims or otherwise.

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I said I'm done. No quoting me, please. I like the people here, and I'm just done with this. It's hugely personal for me. I will be pissed if she lied, because it makes things more difficult for women who have been assaulted (I've been beaten up, not sexually assaulted), and the number of women who just didn't care, astounded me. But I'm not quiet about it. 

As for this show (topic). I stopped watching a while ago. I don't care if it's gone. If he was falsely accused, I hope that comes out, but I won't get behind people saying that it means that most, or all, rape accusations are false, let alone other allegations.

Edited by Anela
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2 hours ago, rab01 said:

I didn't really want to weigh in on this because I don't know either of these people from Adam but is this story -- other than the very vague claims of stifling her career* post-breakup - really a MeToo story? 

I've met very few couples that have broken up with no bitterness towards each other.  Clearly, their relationship went toxic - either from the beginning because he was selfish and controlling or later because of her infidelities.  But she herself says that her main allegation - bad and unsatisfying consensual sex inside a 3 year relationship - was not assault and was consented to by her.  Since this also doesn't involve any workplace harassment or invading a stranger's personal space, is this really part of the MeToo movement?  

No, not really - but Chloe has made her public accusations of sexual (assault? misconduct?) within the context of the social environment created by #MeToo, so I think #MeToo’s effect upon public perception of her charges should be - HAS to be - taken into consideration as a factor.  

To put it another way: do you think Chloe would have made such accusations, in such a manner, if the current post-#MeToo environment didn’t exist?

 

2 hours ago, Anela said:

I don't even know who she is. What bothers me, is the automatic defense of HIM, and saying that #metoo has gone too far.

I can’t speak for anybody else, but my thoughts and comments were far from automatic; I read and reread her essay several times, and thought about what I’d read for a few days before commenting.  One thing is, I didn’t start out with either an automatic assumption of either guilt OR innocence.  I considered what I’d read within my own context of 40-ish years of adult relationship experiences - my own, and others - and several things stood out to me:

  1. No relationship ends perfectly well; there will always be some negative associations with the breakup, ranging from depression to outright acrimony.
  2. In every breakup there are three versions: Person A’s, Person B’s - and somewhere between those two, the truth.  And while one person’s version may lean more towards the truth than the other’s - sometimes very very strongly so - none of the three are EVER identical.  Everybody colors their story to reflect better of themselves, and some are WAY more adept at coloring outside the lines than others.
  3. Regardless of which person is talking, the first version of their story is frequently (not always) the least accurate.  One of two things happen after that first statement, depending upon the personality doing the telling.  An honest person allows memory to correct initial misstatements and/or hyperbole, and thus moves closer to the truth; as a result, their statements trend from stronger unqualified statements to more qualified, softer statements. In contrast, a dishonest person changes their story to plug holes revealed by questions of their original discourse, and thus moves farther away from it; their statements trend more from qualified, softer statements to the stronger and more unilateral.  The dishonest person’s changes tend to be more contradictory and easily detected, though, or qualified by subsequent statements like, “I never said EXACTLY that” - so initial vague and/or qualified statements tend (to me, anyway) to be red flags - or pink, at least.  :)

So now you know my process - which I hope gives you some appreciation of what I mean when I say as I reviewed Chloe’s recount of the relationship I saw things which gave me pause to accepting her version as 100% accurate.  I’m not saying her recount of the relationship is totally inaccurate, mind you - it was definitely dysfunctional, unsatisfactory, unsatisfying and deeply troubled on several levels - but I’m not in any way inclined to take it as a gospel account of a relationship with a sexual predator, which is the way it appeared (to me, anyway) to be initially presented.

 

Quote

This is why *I* prefer animals to people. 

 

Well, we have that in common.  :)

Edited by Nashville · Reason: Added two words for clarification
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1 hour ago, Anela said:

If he was falsely accused, I hope that comes out, but I won't get behind people saying that it means that most, or all, rape accusations are false, let alone other allegations.

 

And who here said that exactly? Now people, even women, asking for PROOF of illegal behavior on the part of a man before he goes through the Salem Witch Trials, means that people say all accusations of all victims are false? I'm sorry but that makes the kind of sense that doesn't. I get it's personal to you and I'm sorry for what happened. But not all men are evil and not all women are good. And I don't see what's good about a man losing his career without even being charged or convicted for/of anything, for what so far amounts to a screwed up, dysfunctional relationship but no evidence except he said-she said as to any illegal (abusive) behavior on the man's end.

This is not me defending him (I really don't care), this me simply wanting FACTS and PROOF in order for me to make up my own mind about the situation. And that's how it should be.

Edited by Smad
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I'm a feminist and a SJW and a rape victim too, and I want to always believe the women as well.

I also read and re-read and weighed what she wrote, and my gut reaction is still that it's murky. Even if everything she's said is true, I'm not sure any of it was illegal. Someone can be a douchebag, and we can hate them and find them reprehensible, but does that mean they lose their careers? Of course, we have the right to not support them in any way. But  for someone to lose everything they've worked for over a bad relationship...well, there's sure be a lot of people who'd lose everything, it that becomes the way of things.

I don't believe anyone said most or all rape accusations are false. That's not what I read---if I had, I'd be outraged.

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Since I was quoted again, I'm coming back with this. If this happened, then there should be people out there who can verify it:

Because of my leaving him for someone else, he made calls to several companies I received regular work from to get me fired by threatening to never work with them. He succeeded. I was blacklisted. With the assistance of a woman who’d gained my trust and my heart over the past year, he steamrolled my career. The woman actively made it her mission to destroy my friendships. And she did, because by the time they’d realized she was… an unreliable source… the damage had already been done. To be fair, in break-ups like this one, some friends will just naturally gravitate towards the person who wields more power (and the ability to employ them), especially in the business I’m in- despite whatever history exists. Still, there’s so much more to that woman’s story (including 6 other women whose reputations/careers she attempted to sabotage) but I don’t want to digress too far from my point, which is abusive relationships, not friendships. This time in my life was agony.

So, he and a friend made calls, and had her blacklisted, and there are six other women who had the same thing happen to them with this female "friend". Her lawyer apparently wrote a letter, to stop him from badmouthing her in front of audiences, speculating that she was cheating on him. 

She wrote her piece, to encourage other girls and women, to not stay in relationships like that, but the women who are involved in them, most won't listen, which is a shame. 

All it would do to properly come forward was hurt me. And guess what? It will probably hurt me now too, despite the #MeToo movement. We’ve come a long way, but we still have a ways to go.

Anyway, I asked to not be quoted again, because there is almost nothing left to me, as a person, but I'd had a good five days, and I spend time here with people I like, talking about shows that usually distract me from the fact that I'm almost a shell of who I used to be. I regret clicking on this damned thread, and reading a few things, because I usually get a good laugh out of these boards. 

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3 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

I'm a feminist and a SJW and a rape victim too, and I want to always believe the women as well.

I also read and re-read and weighed what she wrote, and my gut reaction is still that it's murky. Even if everything she's said is true, I'm not sure any of it was illegal. Someone can be a douchebag, and we can hate them and find them reprehensible, but does that mean they lose their careers? Of course, we have the right to not support them in any way. But  for someone to lose everything they've worked for over a bad relationship...well, there's sure be a lot of people who'd lose everything, it that becomes the way of things.

I don't believe anyone said most or all rape accusations are false. That's not what I read---if I had, I'd be outraged.

"I only believe children" is what I read. And all of the posts, all over the internet, about how #metoo has gone too far. Some of it is murky, some of it should have proof, as I mentioned above. His career has flourished, until now. I don't know who she is, or what she does - people have mocked her over a supposed career. If he had her blacklisted, then he's a shit just for that. I wasn't sure that he should have been fired so fast, if at all, I'm responding to those who assume that she's lying, because he lost his job. 

I re-read it myself. I saw a comment elsewhere, that she needed a career boost, so she decided to write this - only you can see that that isn't the type of thing that someone would write, in order to boost a career. Some believe her, but she's also getting attacked (and the "this has gone too far" just...). I don't think someone should lose a job over a bad relationship, but according to what I previously quoted, she lost work because of it. And she might lose it now, if people decide that she wrongly accused him. I saw the TMZ thing before coming here, because someone linked to it. 

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22 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

But  for someone to lose everything they've worked for over a bad relationship...well, there's sure be a lot of people who'd lose everything, it that becomes the way of things.

Me, I’d probably be begging on the street.  :)  Way back in the Mesozoic era of my college days, I recall a veritable consecutive string of relationship partners so toxic as to make Chernobyl look like a summer resort - so I wouldn’t be surprised if, after getting out of THAT loop, I carried around enough contact crazy for a while to make some subsequent partners regard me in the same light.

 

22 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

I don't believe anyone said most or all rape accusations are false. That's not what I read---if I had, I'd be outraged.

Actually, I believe the reverse was stated at least once.

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22 hours ago, Nashville said:

This is one of my primary sticking points as well.  By definition, sexual assault is forcing sexual activity upon a person contrary to their will.  If Chloe never voiced such contrariness of will - i.e., she never told Chris “no” - then how could subsequent sexual activity be construed as “assault”?

She says that when she told him she didn't feel like it, he reminded her that the reason he left his previous GF was because she didn't want to have sex.   So, says Chloe, she did it (so he wouldn't leave her).  That's what's being called sexual assault these days, I guess.

If all of it's true, he committed no crimes.  If all of it's true, he's a controlling narcissistic asshole, and the world is full of people just like him in positions of power, money, and influence.  Since the beginning of time.  And there's no shortage of seemingly young, attractive, intelligent women who willingly become the other half of such a couple. If I demanded that all people in the entertainment industry be kind, sensitive, decent, emotionally healthy individuals,  I'm nearly certain there'd be very few I could listen to or watch.

Some of the women I most respect and admire in real life are women who came out of relationships like Chloe is describing.  They (the women) asked themselves, "How could I be attracted to a man like him?  What does it say about me that I would stay with a man like him?" Then, they (the women) went about the long, hard, painful work of answering those questions, a process that can take years.  First, they had to realize that it's not about him, who he is, what he did.  It's about you, and why you were there, and doing whatever it takes to never be there again.  What they didn't do, as Chloe apparently acknowledges she did, was go immediately into another relationship and, even years later, blame the controlling narcisstic asshole for her choice to be in that relationship and stay with him until he told her to leave.

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1 hour ago, Anela said:

Since I was quoted again, I'm coming back with this. If this happened, then there should be people out there who can verify it:

So, he and a friend made calls, and had her blacklisted, and there are six other women who had the same thing happen to them with this female "friend". Her lawyer apparently wrote a letter, to stop him from badmouthing her in front of audiences, speculating that she was cheating on him. 

She wrote her piece, to encourage other girls and women, to not stay in relationships like that, but the women who are involved in them, most won't listen, which is a shame. 

 

I think the blacklisting was verified, who does that thing? 

Sorry but I never liked CH.

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1 hour ago, Anela said:

Since I was quoted again, I'm coming back with this. If this happened, then there should be people out there who can verify it:

Quote

Because of my leaving him for someone else, he made calls to several companies I received regular work from to get me fired by threatening to never work with them. He succeeded. I was blacklisted. With the assistance of a woman who’d gained my trust and my heart over the past year, he steamrolled my career. The woman actively made it her mission to destroy my friendships. And she did, because by the time they’d realized she was… an unreliable source… the damage had already been done. To be fair, in break-ups like this one, some friends will just naturally gravitate towards the person who wields more power (and the ability to employ them), especially in the business I’m in- despite whatever history exists. Still, there’s so much more to that woman’s story (including 6 other women whose reputations/careers she attempted to sabotage) but I don’t want to digress too far from my point, which is abusive relationships, not friendships. This time in my life was agony.

So, he and a friend made calls, and had her blacklisted, and there are six other women who had the same thing happen to them with this female "friend". Her lawyer apparently wrote a letter, to stop him from badmouthing her in front of audiences, speculating that she was cheating on him. 

She wrote her piece, to encourage other girls and women, to not stay in relationships like that, but the women who are involved in them, most won't listen, which is a shame.

But from what I understand, Hardwick was a douché about her leaving him. Basically, he was an ass after she left him. According to her, he used business as a way to vent. That's not on the up and up and it's a dick move but it's a business move. And something that if she can prove it, she should take to court. But that's not really what the #metoo movement is about and not what people are focused on in regards to her and Hardwick. It's all about how the relationship was and not what came after. Since the conduct of him during that relationship seems to be the basis for why he got fired/companies are distancing themselves. And that conduct so far is only based on he said-she said without any proof. If anything, according to the woman herself, he informed her right at the beginning what he expected of her...and she chose to be together with him and stay with him. And while it's not exactly considerate of one's partner to still want sex when the other isn't in the mood, the partner can exercise the right to say no. When that doesn't happen and the partner does it anyway (fear of losing said partner or whatever the reason), then consent was given.

So really, I still see nothing in terms of proof as to the reasons why his career is being destroyed because it doesn't seem to have anything to do with his behavior after the break up (aka the black listing if it's true).

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So, more has surfaced regarding all of this.  After reading the 2014 text message Chris sent to Chloe when he broke up with her (including her replies trying to talk him out of it), and watching the youtube video she uploaded the day after the surgery she referenced in her allegations, I don't find her to be credible.   

Link to text messages: http://tmz.vo.llnwd.net/o28/newsdesk/tmz_documents/0619_Hardwick Texts.pdf

Post-surgery video:

Edited by SnarkyTart
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18 hours ago, piequinn35 said:

I think the blacklisting was verified, who does that thing? 

Curiosity got the better of me, so I started googling around; other than simple restatement of Chloe’s allegations on multiple websites in association with their coverage of the issue, I couldn’t find any focused discussion of the blacklist question, much less verification.

Still curious, I looked to another source - iMDB - to see what it had on record.  It details Chloe’s credits for acting (A), producing (P), writing (W) and appearances-as-self (S) as follows:

  • 2004: 1 (A)
  • 2006: 1 (A)
  • 2009: 2 (A)
  • 2010: 1 (A)
  • 2011: 1 (A)                           Note: entered relationship with Hardwick late 2011
  • 2012: 8 (3A, 5S)
  • 2013: 7 (5A, 2S)
  • 2014: 13 (4A, 1P, 1W, 7S)  Note: exited relationship with Hardwick July 2014
  • 2015: 9 (5A, 4S)                Note: Hardwick engaged to Lydia Hearst Sept. 2015
  • 2016: 3 (S)                         Note: Hardwick married Lydia Hearst Aug. 2016
  • 2017: 2 (1A, 1S)
  • 2018 (to date): 4 (3A, 1P)

I have to caveat this list by saying iMDB documents solely TV/movie appearances; work in other areas (podcasts, YouTube, and other social media outlets) is not included, and I could find no hard numbers on such.

That being said - it certainly looks like:

  1. Chloe’s career definitely blossomed during the time of her relationship with CH.
  2. After their breakup, Chloe’s career continued at the same level for roughly a year and a half.
  3. By a couple of years after the breakup Chloe’s work had dropped off significantly from her dating-Hardwick days, but was still maintaining at approximately 3x her pre-Hardwick levels.

So - is this evidence of blacklisting?  Good question.  In her Medium essay Chloe states:

Quote

Because of my leaving him for someone else, he made calls to several companies I received regular work from to get me fired by threatening to never work with them. He succeeded. I was blacklisted. With the assistance of a woman who’d gained my trust and my heart over the past year, he steamrolled my career.

Chloe makes no reference to the timeframe of the alleged blacklisting, but IMHO it would be reasonable to assume such punitive behavior would be most likely immediately following the breakup, when emotions and hurt feelings are running highest.  Judging purely from her iMDB list, though, this does not initially appear to be the case; Chloe’s work level didn’t fall off until 2016, at which point in time CH was already engaged to - and would eventually marry - someone else.  On the surface, at least, it would appear CH had already moved on.  

[ Again I feel I must stress: this is looking solely at what iMDB has logged.  Chloe may have had a host of other activities in progress on other platforms (podcasts, YouTube, Cons, etc.) which are not reflected, and for which I couldn’t find verifiable numbers. ]

 

Chloe also makes the statement:

Quote

He actually got engaged very shortly after I left him

  1. Different people may have varying opinions as to what constitutes “a short time”, but the facts are this: Chloe and Chris broke up in July 2014, and Chris and Lydia got engaged in Sept. 2015 - more than a year later.
  2. Subsequent Twitter releases pretty emphatically indicate Hardwick ended the relationship with Dykstra, not the other way around.

Now under normal circumstances I’m not going to fault ANYBODY for a certain degree of revisionist history regarding past relationships, especially when it comes to the question of who broke up with who.  :)    The context of this essay and its accusations, however, are anything but “normal circumstances” - and if Chloe is being revisionist with this, I can’t help but wonder what other statements of hers might be subject to the same treatment.  

Again, not an indictment - but it does weaken any inclination I might have to accept her statements as truth without question.  

And all of this is just MHO - YMMV

 

Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m kinda astonished at how much of my time I let get eaten up by this friggin’ post....  :)

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I only know Chloe Dykstra's name because she's dating Sam Witwer. Going by the TMZ Text I'm guessing he's the Sam that she cheated with.  

I have to agree with that NYT article, I can't help but feel that these types of stories are going to damage the #metoo movement. 

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https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/three-of-chris-hardwicks-exes-defend-him-amid-abuse-allegations/ar-AAzfbcP

Three of his exes are taking up for him. From Jacinda Barrett (She was my fave London Real World-er): “This past week I have watched someone I once loved and shared four years of my life with be publicly accused of misconduct and abuse, then swiftly fired and shunned,” she wrote, tagging Hardwick in the post. “The accuser’s story bears no resemblance to the one I shared with him all those years ago, but what is of supreme importance here is that every woman and every man deserves a voice. Accuser and Accused. Everyone deserves to be heard."

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Hell Jamie Alexander (aka Lady Sif from the MCU) came out in defense of Hardwick and she is getting torn apart by SJW and #metoo. This is really getting stupid.

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19 hours ago, Smad said:

Hell Jamie Alexander (aka Lady Sif from the MCU) came out in defense of Hardwick and she is getting torn apart by SJW and #metoo. This is really getting stupid.

I hope he lies low until this (hopefully) blows over, even if it takes a year. This is so unfair to him, IMO. 

The #metoo thing is going to eat itself.

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21 hours ago, Smad said:

Hell Jamie Alexander (aka Lady Sif from the MCU) came out in defense of Hardwick and she is getting torn apart by SJW and #metoo. This is really getting stupid.

I read some of those tweets and it is fucking insane and hypocritical. These people are all over the women who have defended Hardwick (3 ex-girlfriends, curren wife, mother-in-law and 10 year friend) calling them rape apologiests, liars, on the take (one was accused of getting a pay off to defend him). Yet, at the same time those same Chloe defenders are holding up anonymous employees (who don't claim to know anything or have seen this behavior, merely claim they could see him doing it because he's a dick (paraphrased)) as proof that Hardwick is a sexual/emotional/mental abuser.  Because duh, someone, somewhere said it was possible.

1 hour ago, sempervivum said:

I hope he lies low until this (hopefully) blows over, even if it takes a year. This is so unfair to him, IMO. 

The #metoo thing is going to eat itself.

I agree that he needs to stay low but, I fear the damage is already done. He may get cleared by AMC but, his reputation and business may never recover. 

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A fair amount of leeway has been allowed in discussing the accusations against Chris Hardwick and the resulting fallout to his career and this show.  Posts going forward should mostly be focused on that.  If you want to discuss the larger subject of sexual harassment, sexualized bad behavior in entertainment, or potential reactions or consequences to that, there is a thread for that here.  Posts that have nothing to do with Hardwick or this specific case may be removed.   

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On 6/19/2018 at 10:43 AM, AngelaHunter said:

Was she a minor? In a state of bondage? Tied to the bed? He did such horrible things to her she only stayed with him for three years. I can't stand the little ass-kissing weasel, and yes, I believe he could be an insecure, possessive little asshole, but he was her asshole and she stayed with him for years. No one can walk on you unless you lie down. These are modern times and a woman is no longer the property of a man. You have issues or self-esteem problems or whatever, get help! Go on Dr.Phil! Do something. I guess she has proof of the sexual assaults, which would be the only criminal act here, since saying he "won't let me" do things is not a crime? And if you stay with someone after they sexually assault you, that's condonation as I understand it. She forgave him. She's not just on the trendy bandwagon and making it up for attention and/or revenge, is she? Has the statute of limitations been abolished in the cases of accusations of sexual abuse if it applies to male celebrities (no matter how minor)? Is grabbing someone's crotch 20 years ago now on the same felonious level as first-degree murder?

It's very scary when someone can have their lives destroyed - virtually forever because even if allegations are proven false, no one forgets and most people feel where there's smoke, there's fire - just because someone makes unsubstantiated claims against them. It's like the Salem witch hunts - there's no way to win.

I couldn't possibly agree any more with your entire post.

I loathe Hardwick and don't bother with TTD unless he has a main guest on there (Rick, Michonne, or Carol and that's about it) that I like enough to ignore him.

But this shit?  This shit is ridiculous.  An entire career jettisoned because of an (alleged) bad relationship?  

Funny you mentioned the Salem witch hunts.  That's the exact comparison is used when discussing this situation with Mini Persnickety when this first came out.  

I personally have less than zero fucks to give about what these people (entertainers) do in their private relationships as long as it doesn't involve the abuse children or animals.  

But a grown assed woman whining like this bitch?  Pony up the alleged "evidence" that he tried to/had you blackballed or shut the fuck up and have several seats.  

Despite my despising Hardwick, I'm hoping he's vindicated and sues the holy fuck out of AMC...and wins.  

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Yvette Nicole Brown to host AMC's "Walking Dead" special and "Talking Dead"

Quote

The network issued a statement on Friday saying “Brown will step in as an interim guest host of ‘The Walking Dead Season 9 Preview Special’ on August 5 and ‘Talking Dead’ when it returns following the premiere of ‘Fear the Walking Dead’ on August 12, as we work to complete our assessment related to Chris Hardwick.”

Edited by Fellaway

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Already sent a message to AMC - If Chirs isn't hosting our house isn't watching.  Hope a lot of people do this.  No offense to Yvette, she's a fun guest because she's such a huge fan but Chris is getting the shaft here and as supportive as I am about the "me too" movement this rush to judgement and killing of careers over extraordinarily sketchy accusations needs to stop.  

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On 14/07/2018 at 12:09 PM, sigmaforce86 said:

 

Already sent a message to AMC - If Chirs isn't hosting our house isn't watching.  Hope a lot of people do this.  No offense to Yvette

 

This house won’t be watching either, offence or not, but we won’t be watching  the Yvette Brown show, because that’s what it’ll turn into, awful choice.

They should have had some of the old cast presenting, a different actor each episode would not only have been ice cool, but also a real ratings winner, but as usual no imagination or foresight! 

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47 minutes ago, OoohMaggie said:

This house won’t be watching either, offence or not, but we won’t be watching  the Yvette Brown show, because that’s what it’ll turn into, awful choice.

They should have had some of the old cast presenting, a different actor each episode would not only have been ice cool, but also a real ratings winner, but as usual no imagination or foresight! 

I support women. I do not support bs revenge against someone over jealousy. After reading all the different stories online it appears that is exactly what  that women did to Chris. That is a damn shame. I do hope Chris sues her for slander. Since he has married into  one of America's elite families, it is doubtful. Old money here still maintains standards.  I didn't even hear about anyone taking over the show. I like YB, I would give her  a chance. But, I would prefer something like Mystery Science Theater 3000 if they are going to change the format. Chris did that sorta, serious, and funny. My husband and I like pretty much the same things. Except, he could never understand why I liked Mystery Science Theater 3000. And I could never understand why he couldn't see the humor in it, lol. Oh well, a few minutes escape from the reality of our current situation, priceless! Later

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Eugene could do a bang up job, Josh McDermitt is very funny, impressed the hell out of me during WalkerStalker con

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On 7/14/2018 at 6:09 AM, sigmaforce86 said:

Already sent a message to AMC - If Chirs isn't hosting our house isn't watching.  Hope a lot of people do this.  No offense to Yvette, she's a fun guest because she's such a huge fan but Chris is getting the shaft here and as supportive as I am about the "me too" movement this rush to judgement and killing of careers over extraordinarily sketchy accusations needs to stop.  

Same here.  

I guess it was inevitable at some point #metoo would become #metoofar, but it looks like we’re already there.

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Now I have to watch to support Yvette. I don't give a shit about Hardwick or the fan outrage on his behalf.

Go Yvette! You rock! You will be great!

Edited by SimoneS
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I saw a tweet that something will be announced at SDCC. I think AMC will announce that Hardwick be back hosting when TWD returns in October (if not earlier).

Two tweets that I can't find now. One from Hardwick's wife saying she had exciting news but, couldn't say anything before SDCC.  The other tweet was from YNB with a picture of her, Hardwick and someone else saying they taped something for SDCC. 

3 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Now I have to watch to support Yvette. I don't give a shit about Hardwick or the fan outrage on his behalf.

Go Yvette! You rock! You will be great!

Edited by Morrigan2575
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Quote

Now I have to watch to support Yvette. I don't give a shit about Hardwick or the fan outrage on his behalf.

Go Yvette! You rock! You will be great!

I don't care about Hardwick, i only watch Talking Dead IF there's someone from TWD that I like on it. Which at this point is only Carol, Daryl and, if someone major gets killed off.

I don't have a problem with YNB filling in but, I'm not going to watch for her anymore than I'm not watching because of her. I also don't have a problem with Hardwick getting suspended pending and investigation. I do have a problem with someone getting fired without an investigation based solely on the accusation and fear of SM outrage.

I just want all the information laid out and I want a final verdict. Because the longer this goes on, the more obvious it becomes (to me) that Hardwick isn't guilty of any crime other than being in a toxic relationship

Edited by Morrigan2575
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I think AMC acted properly - announcing an investigation and a temporary suspension while they sorted it out.  But, having read the various stories, I can't fit her account into my usual framework of believing the accuser so I admit I'm more curious to hear what comes out of the investigation than I should be for two people I don't really care about.  I'm rooting for YNB to do a good job mainly because TWD and TD used to be fun and it would be nice if they started improving everything related to this stupid franchise.  And, if her claims aren't proven and he comes back to TD, I'll hope he improves too. 

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8 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:
  Reveal hidden contents

 

Looks like Lydia Hurst's announcement was that she was joining a Syfy show with DJ Quails. So my quess is totally wrong.

Wow, that might be Z Nation. That is the one DJ Quails is on. That is a good show. I can't wait for it to return. I really like him too. He is a natural.  I don't know anything about LH, or her acting ability. But, I will be watching.

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I'm one of the few who actually LIKES Hardwick. But I quit watching TWD when they killed Carl. If I was still watching I'd be bummed to see him taken off of the show. I love YNB, but I don't know that she works as a host. Either way, I won't be watching, so it doesn't matter much to me. But I do think Hardwick is currently being raked over the coals for very very little. 

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On 7/18/2018 at 3:04 PM, Morrigan2575 said:

Because the longer this goes on, the more obvious it becomes (to me) that Hardwick isn't guilty of any crime other than being in a toxic relationship

I really didn't want to comment again, but must say that in today's climate, being a "bad boyfriend" and/or a complete jerk IS a crime which can destroy someone's career and livelihood.

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