S29.E14: This Is My Time / Live Reunion

[RedheadZombie]

Yeah that was one ugly, bitter, sour grapes, drama queen, over the top little temper tantrum. And doing it right in front of the woman's daughter too. That was low even by Survivor "standards." One of the worst behaviors I've ever seen on the show period. I still like Josh but don't see what he sees in Reed.

What bothered me was it's utter self-indulgence. The only thing missing was kicking his leg up in the air and doing a standing splits.

[Donny Ketchum]

When Jeremy finished his little speech about how Keith didn't know how to play the game, I wish Keith would have turned around and asked him, "How far did you get again, Mr. I Know Everything About Survivor? I was in fourth place. About the only time I saw you was when you sitting in that jury box while I was still playing." And then spit on his shoes.

I think being voted out in tenth place for basically being a threat is preferable to being voted out in fourth for not being one or for having no clue of how to play the game.  Keith saying that to Jeremy would be all smoke, no fire.  All bark, no bite.  Plain and simple.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Donny Ketchum

[GaT]

Wow, I’m surprised how things went. Natalie getting Baylor voted out, Jacklyn winning individual immunity, Keith still in the game. I guess I'm OK with Natalie winning, even though I would have preferred Jacklyn. As long as it wasn't Missy.

 

I found the live part between the show to be more annoying than interesting, but at least it gave me something else I could FF through.

 

Next season seems kind of stupid.

[pennben]

My favorite part of Natalie's move at final five was that she knew how the votes were going, but kept her decision to herself until the last minute after hearing what everyone had to say.  Had Jackie made a mistake at tribal, boom, Natalie plays the idol for herself and Jackie is gone. 

[Andromeda]

So happy Natalie won. I was seriously worried there for a bit, when it looked like Keith might stay instead (and was prepared to root for him instead), but I was SO happy to see Nat take it. I'm bummed that the stupid blood thing meant that she couldn't sweep the votes.

 

The reunion show sucked, as usual. The stuff about the kid designing a challenge made me laugh, considering how dangerous it turned out to be (the teeter-totter segment was awful and should never be repeated.) The food thing was dumb. I really disliked the proselytizing segment which, while I appreciate the sentiment of getting Midwesterners (or whoever) to accept gays, just screamed Mark ("The Bible") Burnett. Especially the stuff about Reed and Josh being such great upstanding examples, considering the withering, disrespectful way Reed treats people. While I hate Missy, too, he really is a drama queen.

 

And as far as next season, I just have to roll my eyes when Burnett & Co. take a stab at defining social strata.  We had the racial angle. We had the brains/brawn/beauty angle.  Now this collar nonsense.  Ugh.

Seriously, especially since the premise is flawed. Their (obviously pre-selected) examples from the audience show this. The blue collar guy is a general contractor, making him the MANAGER -- he's the one who "Makes the rules" (and probably quite a bit of money). And I'd love to see a lawyer attempt to make his own rules -- as the lawyer said, the judges are the real bosses. Plenty of white-collar workers have to follow all kinds of rules and are not in charge or even making very much money (heck, phone banks are white collar jobs.) So, the idea that white collar workers are always the "bosses" or leaders and blue collar always the worker bees is just wrong. If they focused on their working environment or styles, it would make more sense.

[Bryce Lynch]

It's not even about what she thought though, Jeff and "Survivor" should have said "you need to go." If she has to sit out in all the challenges that everyone else has to fight and compete for. Why is she allowed to stay and someone who was playing in those challenges have to go? She should have been removed. Not sit like a bump on a log for the next 3+ immunity challenges.

I totally disagree about the challenges. The contestants compete in them for their own benefit and only hurt themselves when they can't compete. If the others don't think they belong they can vote them out.

Plus, an injured castaway could simply say they are "competing" in each challenge but do almost nothing to try to win.

Healthy contestants have frequently thrown team immunity challenges. The idea of disqualifying an injured contestant who can't effectively compete in challenges is absurd.

[Turtle]

My biggest WTF moment was when Reed wrote Jaclyn's name down.   He stood there and congratulated Natalie on her dazzling game play ... then voted for John's shadow.   I wondered if he did it out of fondness for John.   Reed seemed very chummy with John in John's Ponderosa video.

 

As mentioned above, it's likely that Reed voted for Jac to give her 2nd place over Missy.  Which I fully support.  

 

I remain 100% behind Reed's tribal speech.  One, Missy really was awful all season and deserved to be called out; she certainly was no "mother figure".  Two, Reed was talking about the game, not about her life, and so I don't see it as a personal attack but rather an attack on the persona she created for the game, and how she played the game.  Three, the producers encourage these folks to make dramatic speeches, and I'm sure Reed was egged on while at Ponderosa.  Fourth, it was flat-out awesome.  

[Bob Sambob]

Natalie probably played the best game by a female contestant since Parvati.

 

You seem to have forgotten about a certain legendary Survivor goddess named Kim Spradlin. And I personally hold Sophie and Denise in pretty high regard, as well. That takes nothing away from Natalie, though. She played a great game and totally deserved the win.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Bob Sambob

[Fake Jan Brady]

Damn, Missy cleans up real good.

 

Careful; that's almost a proposal.

 

 

Jaw dropping fact I just discovered: Keith and Probst are the same age.

Edited December 18, 2014 by cousin oliver

[sigmaforce86]

As mentioned above, it's likely that Reed voted for Jac to give her 2nd place over Missy.  Which I fully support.  

 

I remain 100% behind Reed's tribal speech.  One, Missy really was awful all season and deserved to be called out; she certainly was no "mother figure".  Two, Reed was talking about the game, not about her life, and so I don't see it as a personal attack but rather an attack on the persona she created for the game, and how she played the game.  Three, the producers encourage these folks to make dramatic speeches, and I'm sure Reed was egged on while at Ponderosa.  Fourth, it was flat-out awesome.  

 

Everything you said is exactly right - Reed was making an analogy, he may have been dramatic about it but really it was no different than the infamous season 1 snake/rat speech.

If Keith had made F3 I think I would have wanted him to win.  But I never though one of the "twinnies" I hated in Amazing Race would be the one I'd be cheering for at the end of this.  For the moves she made the past few weeks she deserved it - I would have thought of getting Baylor out over Jaclyn too but the idea of giving Jaclyn the idol was brilliant (I never would have thought of it at all).  Plus being able to keep some of these plans to herself; not doing that has sunk a lot of players before her.  And I have to admit watching the jury's reaction to that idol move was hysterical - I wonder if she was also playing for votes when she did that or if that was just a side bonus.

[LizBug]

Glad they didn't show the "walk of the fallen" and that the women didn't torch the camp after their champagne breakfast.

[Wings]

I think they got a local orthopedic doctor to come and examine Missy's ankle.  He determined that it was broken without an xray, thus the cast and no mention of her injury at the reunion.  You don't put a cast on a sprain, I know this from experience.  It would have skewed the end game had she been taken out of the game but wanted to make sure no law suit would happen if she needed surgery down the line or complications. 

 

I don't mind the Collar theme for next season at all.  It adds variety and something new.  No biggie for me.  I just love this show! 

 

This dull season had a spectacular finish, thank you Nat and congratulations!

[Wings]

Everything you said is exactly right - Reed was making an analogy, he may have been dramatic about it but really it was no different than the infamous season 1 snake/rat speech.

If Keith had made F3 I think I would have wanted him to win.  But I never though one of the "twinnies" I hated in Amazing Race would be the one I'd be cheering for at the end of this.  For the moves she made the past few weeks she deserved it - I would have thought of getting Baylor out over Jaclyn too but the idea of giving Jaclyn the idol was brilliant (I never would have thought of it at all).  Plus being able to keep some of these plans to herself; not doing that has sunk a lot of players before her.  And I have to admit watching the jury's reaction to that idol move was hysterical - I wonder if she was also playing for votes when she did that or if that was just a side bonus.

 

 

She was definitely playing for votes and even said so in a DT.   Big move and risky.  Missy even said to Jacklyn, what would Jon do and she replied, "vote her out."  At the reunion Jacly seemed confused and said she would have booted her had she known.  I am not sure what she meant by that.

[ghoulina]

Okay, I have not posted in this forum for several episodes. I sort of grew bored of the show, wasn't really rooting for anyone. But that Natalie. She just came out of nowhere and surprised me. I HATED her and Nadiya on Amazing Race. When the latter was the first voted off of Survivor, I could not be more excited. I was hoping her twin would soon follow. But she actually was not as annoying without her sister around, and she just sort of faded into the background for me. But this back half of the game - that girl was on fire! She was making moves right and left, and not really pissing anyone off. I thought she played a great game and I was really pulling for her to win. When I saw Reed vote for Jacyln, I got freaked out. So I was literally jumping up and down with excitement when Natalie actually won. Go Natalie! 

 

And, while I didn't really care for the other two, it was pretty cool seeing a final three of all women. 

 

Reed's Missy speech was the best minute of the entire show, bar none. 

 

This was a kind of lackluster season for me, but it ended with a strong finish. I'm excited for February!

[ghoulina]

I remain 100% behind Reed's tribal speech.  One, Missy really was awful all season and deserved to be called out; she certainly was no "mother figure".  Two, Reed was talking about the game, not about her life, and so I don't see it as a personal attack but rather an attack on the persona she created for the game, and how she played the game.  Three, the producers encourage these folks to make dramatic speeches, and I'm sure Reed was egged on while at Ponderosa.  Fourth, it was flat-out awesome.

 

Amen and amen! Reed even said at the reunion that his speech was in no way to reflect who Missy was in real life. So she can lose me with her "I really was a step-mother" crap. Every word Reed said was true, IMO. I will never forget the entitled way she acted about the rice when the tribes swapped. She and Baylor were both whiny, bratty, annoying players the entire game, as far as I was concerned and I loved his speech. Hardly the worst one we've seen over the years. 

 

I don't mind the Collar theme for next season at all.  It adds variety and something new.  No biggie for me.  I just love this show!

 

I don't mind it either. These things always seem a little hokey at first, but I thought the Beauty-Brains-Brawn season was one of the more exciting ones we've had in recent years. 

[LakeGal]

The seating at the reunion made me laugh.  Jaclyn's stool or stump was so much higher than those around her.  Natalie looked like a little girl sitting beside Jaclyn.  Natalie was the winner and it looked like she was sitting on a little kid's chair.

[ProfCrash]

Congrats Natalie! She earned her win. She played the longest without her blood. She survived a couple of twists in her alliance pretty nicely. She didn't get pissy publicly when Jeremy was voted out and handled the flip flopping of Jon and Jaclyn very well. She figured out what she needed to do and played really well. Keeping Keith was a great move because it meant there was someone else with a huge target on his back to win. Keith had the best chance to win after Natalie because so many alliance mates were on the Jury.

 

I would not be surprised if they did something for Missy when they knew that her ability to use the leg would no longer be an issue. Why let the injury linger if they could do something for it and it had no out come on the game?

 

Reed's speech was honest. The interviews I read had Missy dividing food up and giving larger portions to people that she was allied with and she was over protective of Baylor. We knew that the two of them were disliked based on talking heads and exit interviews, clearly they were disliked more then we knew.

 

Class Warfare on Survivor, excellent. We had already seen it but making tribes out of the stereotypes will be interesting. I do think No Collar should be Drop Outs instead. I suspect that the Drop Outs will do just fine and that the White Collar will be screwed.

[Haleth]

When I first heard the Twinnies were cast here I was this [] close to not even watching.  Gotta admit I was wrong and Nat is a superb player and winner.  It would have been unacceptable for anyone else to come away with the win.

 

Too bad about no longer having a fan favorite.  Keith probably would have won.  (Was this the first episode where he didn't spit?  I missed the first hour.)

 

I didn't understand Reed voting for Jaclyn, but if it was because he wanted her to come in 2nd and beat Missy, that makes a lot of sense.

 

Seems to me White/Blue/No Collar is the same as Brains/Brawn/Beauty with different labels.  (Not to imply blue collar =/= brainy, but forcing one label on players can be tricky.)

 

Now I'll have to go watch the first hour to see how well Natalie set herself up for the win.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Haleth

[Alapaki]

I think they got a local orthopedic doctor to come and examine Missy's ankle.  He determined that it was broken without an xray, thus the cast and no mention of her injury at the reunion.  You don't put a cast on a sprain, I know this from experience.  It would have skewed the end game had she been taken out of the game but wanted to make sure no law suit would happen if she needed surgery down the line or complications. 

 

I totally disagree about the challenges. The contestants compete in them for their own benefit and only hurt themselves when they can't compete. If the others don't think they belong they can vote them out.

Plus, an injured castaway could simply say they are "competing" in each challenge but do almost nothing to try to win.

Healthy contestants have frequently thrown team immunity challenges. The idea of disqualifying an injured contestant who can't effectively compete in challenges is absurd.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the contestants typically get a lot more medical attention throughout the game than we're ever shown.  However, I think this is the most intervention that we've seen for a contestant who was ultimately allowed to stay in the game.

 

My understanding has always been that once the medical team is brought in, it's completely their call whether the player gets pulled or not. (although I'm not so naive as to think TPTB don't have influence in that decision). 

 

While I don't have a problem with Missy being allowed to stay in the game despite not being able to compete in challenges, in the past we've seen several alliances and strategies completely blown up because a player is pulled from the game for medical reasons.  

 

It's entirely possible/likely that pulling Missy from the game would've drastically changed the remainder of the game.  And I doubt that the medical team came out to their tribe camp to apply the cast.  I'm not upset with it.  But I am surprised that they allowed her to continue. 

 

I think being voted out in tenth place for basically being a threat is preferable to being voted out in fourth for not being one or for having no clue of how to play the game.  Keith saying that to Jeremy would be all smoke, no fire.  All bark, no bite.  Plain and simple.

 

I think Jeremy's central point, that unpredictable alliance-mates are extremely dangerous, was completely valid.  I think the way he articulated it made it sound like he was calling Keith dumb, or a bad player.  And I think that's wrong.  Just because a player's unpredictability is bad for their putative alliance-mates doesn't mean it's a bad strategy for them.

[Yogi Nomad]

I thought for a hot second there that Natalie was gonna be voted out. Her low key game truly helped her win. Jacklyn should have known better and vote her out but then again it's a matter of who she lost to. I don't mind Keith and it would be pretty funny to see Kieth in the FTC. Imagine the spit, he'd also tank it bad and would probably cry but people would have vote for him anyway. What a miss opportunity!

 

So happy that Nat won. Seriously who would have thought! and I just LOVED it when Nat said "Did you vote for who I told you to vote for?" So badass!

[Blinkoshuman]

 

Jaw dropping fact I just discovered: Keith and Probst are the same age.

Yeah, Probst better thank his Botox doc.

[Alapaki]

To Jaclyn's credit, as I remember the editing from that episode, she and Jon did seem solid on going with Josh and Reed and that group and voting out Jeremy. Then Jon went to exile and the combination of Alec, Wes and Keith but mostly Alec and Wes pissed her off and she said no way was she voting with them. And then she told Jon as much when he got back from Exile and then she added the pitch to him that they had a better chance against the Jeremy alliance which was stacked with women, versus Josh and company which were all strong, young men. So in her defense, I do think she could make a solid claim for getting rid of Josh being her move and decision.

 

I actually didn't think there was anything wrong in her response and I didn't get the sense that Josh was looking for any "I took you out because you were such a threat" almost apology response. I think Josh clearly saw Jaclyn as a goat in terms of she didn't do anything and was trying to point it out by putting her on the spot to state clearly one big move she made. I do think there was an undertone in his comment of "Jon was more the brains of the operation between you two" which she clearly picked up on and definitely got annoyed by. So I will agree that she was a little snide when stating she voted him out but at least she was able to give him a clear and concrete example of when she did make a move. Sure she didn't get his vote but she was not going to anyway.

 

 

I don't know whether there was something else to Josh's question that was edited out, or whether Jaclyn was just projecting, but her answer suggested that she took that question to mean "tell me something that YOU did that Josh didn't tell you to do".  As I heard the question, though, it was broader than that.  "Tell me any move that you initiated, period."

 

I don't think Josh saw Jaclyn as someone who was carried to FTC as a goat.  But I think it comes back to the fact that she and Jon were "swing-votes", and "swing-votes" rarely if ever succeed.  Jaclyn made it further than most "swing-votes" because of the BvW format (she represented two votes along with Jon).  But fundamentally she and Jon were at the bottom of every alliance and, imo, were never going to pull a majority of the jury votes, regardless of the make up of the jury.

 

I think everyone who gets voted out because the "swing-vote" swung against them is bitter at the "swing-voter".

 

My main problem was that there's a time and a place for that. I have never understood any juror who chooses to use the FTC to just walk up and insult one of the finalists.

 

 

I'm never crazy about the "my question is "YOU SUCK"!" Jurors.  But I completely accept that in Survivor each juror can base their vote on whatever they want to.  There's no judge instructing them in the law they have to apply.  One of the challenges of Survivor is for the Finalists to be able to manage that potential capriciousness.

 

So, yes.  Reed had every right to act like a petty-asshole.  He even has every right to brag about the fact that he acted like a petty-asshole and take pride in it.  But that doesn't change the fact that he was a petty-asshole at FTC.

[ghoulina]

and I just LOVED it when Nat said "Did you vote for who I told you to vote for?" So badass!

 

Oh my gosh, YES! Probably my favorite part of the 2 hour finale. The look on Baylor's face, the jury smiles - so much win.

[seacliffsal]

I so agree with Reed and others that Missy treated some better than others.  I still can't get over how she acted after the tribe swap when she went to her new camp and decreed how much rice they would make to eat.  When an original member of that tribe tried to point out that they had to ration the rice she totally turned on him and overruled him.  We also saw how she would angrily defend Baylor against any kind of remark and demean others (her 'he's not worth it' to Jeff when she decided to walk away from Reed AND flip him off).  In my opinion she just personified entitlement.  Also, in my opinion, the fact that she did not have to participate in any challenges after her injury just fed into her entitlement-she still got to stay in the game but didn't have to do anything.  During the final tribal council she claimed that the day she hurt her foot was the hardest day she had on Survivor, while obviously true for her, I thought she should have at least said something about when Baylor was voted out.

Edited December 18, 2014 by seacliffsal

[peachmangosteen]

Reed is such an arrogant, pathetic dick. I found it hilarious that his speech showed him for what he is. It doesn't even matter if Missy is an actual demon, that speech made Reed look ugly. I always hated him, so it gave me pleasure that he showed what an asshole he is so clearly with that. And then he voted for Jaclyn because, since he's up on his high horse and thinks he's become God or something, he and he alone gets to decide who gets what place. LMAO! Josh still voted for Natalie, right?

 

Another hilarious moment was Josh asking Jaclyn the same question Jon did like 5 questions before him. So embarrassing! And then he pressed her and she's like, "I voted you out, ya fucking dumbass, which is what I stated earlier."

 

Jeremy's jury speech was so boring and pointless. He thinks he's so much better than everyone else. Enjoy 10th place, Jeremy!

 

I felt really bad for Keith at the reunion. He seemed so embarrassed. And then you had Jeremy saying Keith's too stupid to play Survivor, which only served to make Jeremy look like an asshole, much like Reed's jury speech.

 

So happy that Natalie won. She's one of my fave winners. I think she made a lot of unnecessary look-at-me/I'm-kinda-bored-so-I'm gonna-do-this type moves, but they were really fun and entertained me, plus she made a lot of really great moves and she earned her win for sure.

 

LOL at Jeff's "Some of John Rocker's best friends are black and gay!" speech. John Rocker himself seemed uncomfortable with that.

 

I feel like I'm gonna hate next season. And that's almost entirely because Jeff loves it and he and I have very different opinions.

Edited December 18, 2014 by peachmangosteen

[SimonHumboldt]

Yeah that was one ugly, bitter, sour grapes, drama queen, over the top little temper tantrum.

 

Funny, I didn't see much evidence from the show to back up Reed's stinging indictment of Missy, but I saw plenty to convince me that Reed is a sanctimonious attention-craving phony who loves both the spotlight and the sound of his own voice.

 

If the Final 3 was Natalie, Keith, and Jackyn, he just would have found a reason to direct his bittercakes Oscar speech at one of them instead.

 

The interviews I read had Missy dividing food up and giving larger portions to people that she was allied with and she was over protective of Baylor.

 

I didn't see it on the show, and didn't hear players complaining about it in confessionals.  Sounds like revisionist history because if any of this was on camera, they certainly would have shown it.

 

So, yes.  Reed had every right to act like a petty-asshole.  He even has every right to brag about the fact that he acted like a petty-asshole and take pride in it.  But that doesn't change the fact that he was a petty-asshole at FTC.

 

Sheesh, thank you. I can't stand the whole "Keeping it real / just being honest here / I call it like I see it"  justification for unapologetically acting like an asshole.

[KnitsWithRaceCars]

Blech. This is the part of the finales I hate so much - Probst blathering on to us and the studio audience in between segments of the actual show. It's as annoying as all the cuts to the THs during PBS at fund-raising time. Less talk, more actual show would be appreciated.

 

 

30 minute mark:

 

It's silly and embarrassing how much I've been looking forward to tonight's Survivor finale.  And NOT so I could watch Jeff Probst discussing 2000 daily calorie allotments or chat with the studio audience.

 

Jeff, your talk show bombed.  You just need to accept that.

 

 

This constant interrupting of  the show for meaningless chit chat is really annoying.  Jeff is breaking the 4th wall and constantly reminding us that this all happened 6 months ago - takes you out of the atmosphere of the show.  

I keep changing the channel.

 

SHUT UP PROBST!!

 

These posts make me wish that there was a "Like to Infinity and Beyond" button that I could use to show how much I like and agree with them!  These cut-ins totally take away from the atmosphere and strip me of my ability to lose myself in the show.  And they are nothing more than Jeffy being self-serving and trying to meet his needs that stem from his form of "Attention Deficit Disorder."  Honestly, I would rather have to sit through twice as many commercials than even the slightest segment of these cut-ins.  And I hate commercials.  I wish Survivor could do for the finales what some serial shows have done--find a single sponsor who would agree to a limited commercial interruption Survivor finale in exchange for some product placement.

 

The only thing I will give Jeffy credit for this time is that at least he stated that the questions were viewer questions rather than moronically asking them like he didn't know the answers.  Just like his "What's your name" questions during the premieres.  He looks and sounds so utterly stupid when he tries to act like he doesn't know these things.

 

I did like Reed's impersonation of Jonathan Penner in Philippines, though. How much does anyone want to bet that production knew he had a speech planned, and so they arranged it for him to go up last?

 

 

I think they always do that though.  They must ask people what their questions are to help plan the order.  I'm sure they also change up the order in editing, but he referenced being the last person.

 

Oh, they definitely know ahead of time who is going to make the grand speeches.  I've seen a lot of YouTube videos of talking heads with the jurors prior to FTC and the jurors are giving their perspectives on the F2/F3 and what their mindsets are in terms of addressing the finalists.  That's how the likes of Spencer Bledsoe and David Murphy get to make their great speeches which are immediately followed by the voting.  Of course, I'm giving TPTB the benefit of the doubt that the jury THs are actually before FTC.

 

TWINNIE POWER!!!!!!!!!

 

Natalie probably played the best game by a female contestant since Parvati. I wasn't a fan since she and Nadya were irritating on TAR, but I grew to like her. Most deserving winner in my opinion.

 

I agree with whoever mentioned Kim Spradlin and Denise Stapley.  Sorry I didn't quote that person.  I know some people argue that Kim's competition was weak, but she dominated from start to finish, and I'm more than willing to wager that she is smart enough and has more than enough social skills to take on the best of the best and dominate them.  She is the kind of player that other players want to see go far in the game--like JT in Tocantins.

 

Isn't Denise the only winner, female or male, to have survived every tribal and won?  She is a true Survivor in the literal sense of the word.

 

I disagree with Sophie Clarke being a strong winner.  Her social game was so abysmal that she was lectured by Ozzy about being an entitled brat.  The only things she did right were winning final immunity and aligning herself with players whose social games were even more abysmal than hers.  And she had the benefit of having one of her allies being a returning player, so she had a very good idea of how he would play.  I consider that an advantage that substantially weakens her ranking against other winners.

 

Nat is definitely right up there as a strong winner in my opinion.  She played against quite a few loose cannons and handled them masterfully.

 

 

Next season will be interesting, I hope. Depends on if they have any famous people in the mix.

 

 

lol@Survivor: Class warfare!

 

UGH!!  I'm calling it now:  The "White Collar" tribe will be the second coming of the Cagayan "Brains" tribe and will self-destruct in no time because they're all used to being the leaders who make decisions and give orders, so nobody will listen to anyone else and "demote" themselves to being a doer.  Or they'll be totally inept at doing things, a la Garrett and J'Tia.  The "No Collar" tribe will be so wrapped up in their "I do what I want when I want" mentality that nobody will do what needs to be done before not having it done is a huge detriment.  On the upside, it should be entertaining for the viewers, provided that the players aren't overly obnoxious.

 

Terrible finale.  I liked Jeff with the kids, but the staged white/blue/no collar interviews were absolutely awful.  And I think it's a shitty idea for a season.  And Natalie, the winner, got very little time to speak, which always annoys me.  Terrible.​

 

It's to be expected that Nat got so little time to speak at the Reunion.  She's female, and Jeffy is a sexist, misogynist pig.  The only winners who get any significant amount of attention are the alpha males.  Remember how much time Jeffy spent trying to redeem Tony during the Cagayan finale.

 

 

Keith won F5 immunity though. The F4 couldn't have been Missy/Baylor/Jaclyn/Natalie.What's crazy looking back is Keith winning that immunity challenge actually helped Natalie. Had Keith not won, he goes at F5 instead of Baylor and we are left with the scenario you outlined. Jaclyn wins the final immunity challenge and Natalie is absolutely a goner. And we get the worst F3 in history with Jaclyn/Missy/Baylor. Dodged that bullet.

 

IMHO, that would be the second worst F3 in history.  The South Pacific trio of Sophie, Benny, and Albert is the worst one in my opinion.

 

Slack-jawed Alec was the Venus Flytrap of Nicaragua.  Tongue-out Wes was the frog on his lily pad snagging innocent flies that flew too close.

 

If anyone had told me at the start of this season that I'd be cheering for a Twinnie at the end, I'd have thought they were crazy.  I cannot stand people constantly bickering and screaming at each other regardless of any other traits.  I don't find that kind of "drama" to be at all entertaining.  But I never questioned the Twinnies' intelligence, strategic abilities, or competitiveness when they were able to work as a team.  The right Survivor definitely won this season.

 

I'm 1 for 1 on desired winners so far this season.  Here's hoping that TAR brings me to 2 for 2 with a win by the Surfers or the Scientists, the Dentists finishing 3rd, and Brooke finally getting her karmic comeuppance by having to watch the Scientists in particular but also the Surfers cross the finish line.

[Primetimer]

Will the most strategic player make it through the dangerous final tribal councils, or is your faithful correspondent doomed to disappointment yet again?

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[ghoulina]

Slack-jawed Alec was the Venus Flytrap of Nicaragua.

 

This just made me laugh so hard, perfect description. It was so uncomfortable watching him staring off into space, with his mouth hanging open. I seriously thought he was stoned. 

[SimonHumboldt]

As mentioned above, it's likely that Reed voted for Jac to give her 2nd place over Missy.  Which I fully support.

 

I understand the rules say you can vote for whomever you want for any reason you want. I get that. But I believe that the unspoken yet implicit assumption is that you vote for the person you think should win.  If you vote for Natalie because she was clearly the best player, great. If you vote for Sandra or Natalie White because you hate Russell and want them to win instead of him, that's fine. You are still casting a vote for someone you want to win.

 

If you vote for someone because you know they will otherwise get zero FTC votes and be embarrased and feel bad at the reunion -- well, I do have a problem with that since you are not voting for who you think should win, but at least you are doing it out of compassion and respect for their feelings.

 

But to vote for someone NOT to win but only to break a tie for 2nd place, and not because you feel bad for anyone but out of sheer spite, solely to dick someone out of a 2nd place tie and 2nd place money -- that shows a level of petty vindictive assholishness that might be unprecedented even for SURVIVOR. And that's really saying something.

[jumper sage]

That was the best final episode ever!  Natalie is fearless and her risky moves paid off.

 

Everything you said is exactly right - Reed was making an analogy, he may have been dramatic about it but really it was no different than the infamous season 1 snake/rat speech.

I too thought of the snake eats the rat. Did you all hear me standing in my living room clapping?  He was spot on!  Missy made me sick the whole season.  AT the final voting she got 1 vote?  Am I correct in that?  Only Baylor voted for her?  She did not realize she was the goat going to the end?  Getting out Baylor was absolute genius.

 

Reed's analogy with the fairy tales was awesome.  Of course Missy and Baylor did not understand the analogy or even what an analogy is.  Missy did treat everyone at camp like crap.  She had no idea that these people would be voting for the winner.  [hand smacks head]  I loved when she said that she was a step mother.......So how come you don't include them as your kids Missy?  How come you didn't even once mention them?  To me she is still a loser because she has no accountability for anything she has done in her life including, perhaps, screwing up Baylor.  Baylor, I beg of you, do not follow in your mother's footsteps.  Someone needs to get educated, get a job and save for the future.  I have a feeling you will be picking up the pieces for the rest of your mom's life.  That whole, "she falls, I pick her up" crap is not right.  She was the adult and she dragged you through hell.  If Missy had won the money, some guy in tv land would just find her, sweep her off her feet, and then spend that million because Missy would let him.

 

Now Jacqlyn, don't let me hear you had some 30k wedding instead of putting that money to achieve your goal of having a child.

 

Alec with his mouth open and Wes with his frog impression was hilarious.

Edited December 18, 2014 by jumper sage

[FineWashables]

Reed is an actor; of course he wrote and rehearsed his final speech to Missy.  I have no problem with anything he said and I thought he made some good points about how manipulative and entitled she was during the game.  That said, he's an articulate man who knows how to choose words carefully.  He chose words that he knew would hurt her and rehearsed them so he could deliver them to maximum effect.  He'd been at the Ponderosa for a while, no doubt rehearsing his speech, so Jeff isn't right in saying that Reed was tired and disoriented and didn't mean to sound the way he did.  I have a problem when people hold themselves up as role models for their religion, whatever that may be, and then say or do something for no other reason than to hurt somebody else to the point where they cry.  I'm so disappointed that he didn't own it.  Just say, I'm a Christian but I'm not perfect and I get mad like everybody else and just like everybody else, there are some people I just don't like. I have some work to do on the "forgive and forget" thing, but I'm trying.  

[peachmangosteen]

But to vote for someone NOT to win but only to break a tie for 2nd place, and not because you feel bad for anyone but out of sheer spite, solely to dick someone out of a 2nd place tie and 2nd place money -- that shows a level of petty vindictive assholishness that might be unprecedented even for SURVIVOR. And that's really saying something.

 

This. I almost applaud Reed just for being that much of a dick. Like it is unprecedented. Congrats, Reed! 

 

And honestly, I think it's pretty clear that what he wanted was attention for himself, and he got it, so he probably does feels pretty great today. 

 

ETA: This reminded me that Reed and Josh both said they would've voted for Keith if Natalie hadn't been in the the F3, which just gave me such a laugh.

Edited December 18, 2014 by peachmangosteen

[Guest]

I call BS on Josh's "We didn't set out to be role models!"  I don't think they are role models, except in their own minds.  I don't think 'gay Christians' is any more rare than any other combo of major world religion and sexual orientation.  By even suggesting it is they themselves seem to be implying there's something 'heathen' or anti-spiritual about gayness, or even sinful.  

 

And I think Reed could've done his final soliloquy about an evil coconut, if he had to.  He was hogging his last moment in the spotlight, probably also hoping for an invite back as a Survivor villain.  

 

 

 

 

[peachmangosteen]

Oh, I forgot to talk about the super gross, OTT sexism during the rehash of the Jon/Jaclyn fight. How embarrassing for everyone, but especially Probst, of course.

[valandsend]

I thought Jon and Jaclyn were long over their fight by the time he was voted out, so I didn't understand Jeff's question about whether it was still going on six months later.

 

Regarding Reed's vote, if he had voted for Natalie, leaving Jaclyn and Missy to get one vote each, how would the tie be broken for the $100,000 second-place prize?

[jumper sage]

I call BS on Josh's "We didn't set out to be role models!"  I don't think they are role models, except in their own minds.  I don't think 'gay Christians' is any more rare than any other combo of major world religion and sexual orientation.  By even suggesting it is they themselves seem to be implying there's something 'heathen' or anti-spiritual about gayness, or even sinful.

I get what they were saying.  Being gay and being Christian or Muslim is casting yourself out from your family especially if you come from an evangelical home.  When Josh talked about coming out and his experience compared to Jeremy's brother was sad.  The Duggars are running around trying to outlaw gays from raising children and getting married.  Like it or not they are role models for the gay community.  If just one parent connected to their gay child then their work was useful.

 

Reed's speech was an analogy.  Missy herself said she cast herself in the mother role.  Reed just pointed out that she cast herself in the fairy tale stepmother role.  A mother would nurture all not just this one or that one.  Missy did just that and selected a few to nurture and was hateful towards the rest.  She needs to own that.  Her game play was terrible and she still doesn't realize she was the goat of the season.

 

I would like to point out that when the men were being sexist pigs only Reed and Jeremy stood up for the ladies.

Edited December 18, 2014 by jumper sage

[Cutty]

You seem to have forgotten about a certain legendary Survivor goddess named Kim Spradlin. And I personally hold Sophie and Denise in pretty high regard, as well. That takes nothing away from Natalie, though. She played a great game and totally deserved the win.

 

I think Natalie was better than Sophie. I'm probably crazy but I thought Coach should have won that season. Denise played a great social game and was great in challenges but didn't make many strategic moves.  

 

But yeah, you can't compare anyone to Kim. She played arguably the most dominate game in the history of the show.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Cutty

[peachmangosteen]

Regarding Reed's vote, if he had voted for Natalie, leaving Jaclyn and Missy to get one vote each, how would the tie be broken for the $100,000 second-place prize?

 

They would've both gotten the second-place prize, I believe.

[scamper]

Yeah Natalie! Now that this season is history, all the seasons are starting to muddle together already and I can't remember what has happened from one season to the next....Was there a winner of a car this season?

[Nashville]

Careful; that's almost a proposal.

 

 

I was thinking the same thing (about Missy's appearance) - she was giving Jaclyn a heckuva run for her money at FTC. Thank god she lives in Dallas.

Jaw dropping fact I just discovered: Keith and Probst are the same age.

  

I'm a year behind them, so that gave me some interesting perspective on the game. :)

And I have to admit watching the jury's reaction to that idol move was hysterical - I wonder if she was also playing for votes when she did that or if that was just a side bonus.

No wondering about it - Nat was definitely playing that for Jury votes. She said as much earlier in one of her THs, when she was fretting about whether her game had been TOO low-key and behind-the-scenes for the Jury to give her sufficient credit for it. She NEEDED a big splashy balls-to-the-wall move play which unequivocally cast her in the role of Master Player In Control - and to that end, she played it as close to perfect as possible. Nat's one sentence to Jaclyn before playing the idol - "Did you vote the way I told you to?" - established the pecking order without question.

Natalie was the source of a certain amount of frustration for me this season. I found much of her game play to be disingenuous in the extreme - her "moral outrage" at Rocker and her "revenging Jeremy" THs being two prime examples. There is no denying, however - hers was the most strategically sound game being played this season. I just wish she'd had better competition than this bunch of chuckleheads.

[Cutty]

This. I almost applaud Reed just for being that much of a dick. Like it is unprecedented. Congrats, Reed! 

 

And honestly, I think it's pretty clear that what he wanted was attention for himself, and he got it, so he probably does feels pretty great today. 

 

ETA: This reminded me that Reed and Josh both said they would've voted for Keith if Natalie hadn't been in the the F3, which just gave me such a laugh.

 

IIRC, Vytas voted for Monica on the first BvW so she could get second place ahead of Gervase.

[Special K]

I think Reed embarrassed himself.  And yet, I'm so glad he did!!  Loved every word of it.  Mostly because I find Missy deplorable and an embarrassment to 21st century womanhood.

 

One memorable moment, early in the episode was when Jaclyn said in a confessional, "I've literally never heard anyone say anything bad about Jon until now," and I was like, hold onto yer hat, sister, or stay off the interwebs!!

 

Natalie is a goddess and one of my favorite winners ever.   She is a credit to 21st century womanhood!

[jumper sage]

What is third place winnings?  I would like to revisit Missy in one year and we probably would see that she hooked up with a man and bought him a truck and bought a house in his name and made Baylor move out...............

[SimonHumboldt]

Regarding Reed's vote, if he had voted for Natalie, leaving Jaclyn and Missy to get one vote each, how would the tie be broken for the $100,000 second-place prize?

 

They would both be considered tied for second place and therefore would each get $100K, no one would be 3rd place, Keith would be 4th place, etc.

 

Reed's vote was basically a vote to secure 3rd place for Missy, and therefore she gets I think $85K rather than $100K.

[valandsend]

I call BS on Josh's "We didn't set out to be role models!"  I don't think they are role models, except in their own minds.  I don't think 'gay Christians' is any more rare than any other combo of major world religion and sexual orientation.  By even suggesting it is they themselves seem to be implying there's something 'heathen' or anti-spiritual about gayness, or even sinful. 

Agreed. I couldn't believe that in this day and age, people are still coming to realize that someone can be gay and still hold the religious beliefs he was brought up with. If anything, it's the churches that turn gay people away first, not the other way around. And there are plenty of Christian denominations that do accept gay members.

 

What was also a bit surprising to me was that this bit about role models immediately preceded Reed's non-apology. It was as if Reed was being set up to apologize to Missy as a "good Christian." I'm glad he stuck to his guns.

[Guest]

I get what they were saying.  Being gay and being Christian or Muslim is casting yourself out from your family especially if you come from an evangelical home.  When Josh talked about coming out and his experience compared to Jeremy's brother was sad.  The Duggars are running around trying to outlaw gays from raising children and getting married.  Like it or not they are role models for the gay community.  If just one parent connected to their gay child then their work was useful.

 

Reed's speech was an analogy.  Missy herself said she cast herself in the mother role.  Reed just pointed out that she cast herself in the fairy tale stepmother role.  A mother would nurture all not just this one or that one.  Missy did just that and selected a few to nurture and was hateful towards the rest.  She needs to own that.  Her game play was terrible and she still doesn't realize she was the goat of the season.

 

I would like to point out that when the men were being sexist pigs only Reed and Jeremy stood up for the ladies.

 

Is that true of most Christians or just the fundamentalists?  I think most Christians are past it.  Even the pope is.  

 

Missy saying she was a mother figure out there doesn't have to mean she treated them all the same.  Of course she didn't.  Reed hated her.  What did he expect-- tucked in at night?  

 

I never saw hateful Missy or bratty Baylor.  I wish they'd shown it.  It would've made better tv than all the tears we saw instead.  

[ShadowSixx]

Have to say, Reed's speech really makes me wish even more that we saw more of the bratty Missy and Baylor that so many players have mentioned in the game in post game interviews.  I can't see the bratty in Baylor, but I'm guessing it's true that it was there since even nice guy Keith got into an argument over it.  With Missy, I can sort of see it since there are so many scenes where she's being coddled by her team members.  They bent over backwards to send her on reward challenges, for example.  She must have been doing something for her team members to give up these things to her.  She came out as fairly fake and delusional in the FTC.  It's not hard to think that maybe she made the 'outsiders' feel very little.  The problem, though, is that the producers had plenty of time to create Missy's narrative to fit with what these other players were saying.  Would have added some much needed drama to the season.  Baylor made enough comments about Missy choosing men over her children or how Jon is the son she always wanted.  Seriously, it seems like the producers had a gold mine on their hands with presenting Missy as this thrice divorced woman who runs men away because she's an evil manipulator.  It's not like Survivor to shy away from portraying women as evil cackling witches.  

 

I thought this season sucked so much simply due to the cast lacking the right mix of chemistry.  But it looks a lot more like the powers that be dropped the ball in creating the narrative.  

 

You know whenever I hear the word thrice, I forever think of the Golden Girls, "Miami is nice, so I'll say it thrice," and as Dorothy said, who the hell says thrice lol.

 

Producers should have shown more of the bratty behavior in Missy and Baylor, especially since Missy wasn't fond of getting the 3x divorce story they were giving her and the fact that cast mates validated their behavior.

 

While giving Missy that tongue lashing I think that Reed was telling other jury members as a reason why not to vote for Missy. Which I doubt she wouldn't have gotten any votes anyway except for Baylor's. Just like Spencer last season was telling everyone why Tony was getting the vote and he was going to win the whole thing.

 

I found the way Jon and Baylor voted at FTC to be a little self serving because they would have wanted their piece of the money if their loved one won. Baylor had to know that Jon wasn't going to vote for Missy over Jaclyn and that Alec, Keith, Reed, & Wes weren't too fond of Baylor or Missy as they had some squabbles with one or both of them at one point. Josh wasn't going to vote for Missy because he felt that Baylor owed him and since Baylor didn't come through it cost her and her mom a vote. So that cost her 5 votes automatically plus Jon so total of 6 votes that wouldn't go in Missy's way.

 

As far as Jaclyn getting votes, I think Reed voted for her because he truly wants to be friends with her outside of the game. Of course Jon would because I guess out of obligation and wanted to go wine tasting and all that. Alec, Keith, & Wes she probably rubbed the wrong way because she felt entitled that they come up to her and talk to her when Jon was away on Exile and Wes called her out on it. So that more than likely cost her 3 votes.

 

For Natalie I think Jeremy, Keith, and Josh appreciated her game play more than anyone else on the jury so that was 3 votes her way. Reed appreciated her game play too but he voted for Jaclyn I think more for personal reasons and since the fact that Alec & Wes weren't really that fond of Jaclyn or Missy those were other votes swinging Natalie's way plus they seen her as one of the guys, tough female competitor who they had no issues with, so it pretty much sealed Natalie's fate to win the whole thing.

 

Side note Jaclyn at the finale with her hair and make up done, she looked like Emily VanCamp from Revenge.

[peachmangosteen]

IIRC, Vytas voted for Monica on the first BvW so she could get second place ahead of Gervase.

 

Shit! Well, I hated Vytas (super UO, I believe), but I am glad that Monica got second over Gervase. Honestly, if I'm being truthful with myself, I could see myself voting for someone solely to make someone else get third place, so maybe I shouldn't be so hard on Reed. Still can't stand that asshole though!

 

I think Reed embarrassed himself.  And yet, I'm so glad he did!!

 

You know, same. At least Reed provided some hilarity it what was otherwise a very boring FTC.

 

One memorable moment, early in the episode was when Jaclyn said in a confessional, "I've literally never heard anyone say anything bad about Jon until now," and I was like, hold onto yer hat, sister, or stay off the interwebs!!

 

I LOLed so hard at her when she said that. That was just so embarrassing for both her and Jon. They must be very privileged people. I wonder how they're dealing with all the hate they have gotten online?

 

What was also a bit surprising to me was that this bit about role models immediately preceded Reed's non-apology. It was as if Reed was being set up to apologize to Missy as a "good Christian." I'm glad he stuck to his guns.

 

I was glad he didn't apologize, too. I don't like when people get shamed into apologizing for something they don't feel sorry about. However, Reed can probably stop waxing poetic about how much of a Christian role model he is now.

 

I wonder how a man who'd been divorced three times would be treated on this show? Oh LOL, who am I kidding, we all know exactly what the difference between Missy's treatment and a thrice-divorced man's would be.

 

ETA:

As far as Jaclyn getting votes, I think Reed voted for her because he truly wants to be friends with her outside of the game.

 

He point blank stated on his twitter that he did it so Missy would get third place.

Edited December 18, 2014 by peachmangosteen

[Boilergal]

Loved Reed's speech - we rewound it and watched it again!  From what we had seen during the course of the season, what Reed was saying appeared to be the truth. I Loved him calling Missy out on her behaviour and sense of entitlement.  I think she expected everyone to give her votes like they had given her their rewards through the season, or carried her gimpy butt to the end.

 

Natalie would have won against Baylor or Missy at the end - but I think she booted Baylor knowing that she would have one less person to compete against in the final immunity challenge.  Color me shocked that Jackelin won - learn how to do puzzles people!!!!!   How many leading teams have lost this season because they couldn't solve a puzzle?

 

The way the FTC was edited it seemed more like the jury was pleading the cases for the Final 3 than asking questions.  It was a pretty boring FTC up until Reed got up. 

Edited December 18, 2014 by Boilergal