S07.E13: Papa's Goods

[The Real Chon]

For all the previous episodes' efforts to instill fear of both Marks and Barofsky (sp?), handling it in quick fashion with a good-old fashioned shooting is a ripoff. Jax could have done that a long time ago and the turgid drama surrounding those relationships would have been done.

Favorite part of the episode: Tig's reaction driving through the doll warehouse.

[ryebread]

His club brothers have accepted and defended his choice (remember when that Aryan guy started calling Tig names?) And I don't think any restaurant patrons in Charming are going to insult Sons in public.

 

Venus & Tig need their own spin-off show, kind of the New Adventures of Ozzie & Harriet.

I agree. But if the mother of a president can take out the surgeon wife of that president, I can see a club brother taking out the trangender escort girlfriend of a vice president because he sees her as problem for the club.  The other chapters most likely would not approve of Venus.  Although in Sutter's world, anything can happen.  I liked Venus.  I wish she'd find some nice feller and get away from the Sons altogether.

[Febgirl]

So, once i waded through the Kurt Sutter  self-indulgence of it all ( He got so say the  "previously on Sons of Anarchy" line, he wrote those abysmal lyrics to the closing montage song, Vic Mackey at the helm of the truck, bad cgi, etc.), there were things I liked, and things I still have questions about.

The Papa's goods truck reminded me of the Allman Brother's  Eat a Peach album cover.

 

Viewing the episode as the last day of Jax Teller's life, I thought was poignant.  That opening montage set to Bruce Springsteen's Adam Raised a Cain, was great.  That's Bruce at his best, and it was effectively used.

The performances that stood out to me last night were Tommy Flanagan, Kim Coates, and CCH Pounder.  I felt like each of them rose above the material they were given.  

I said it earlier, but Tig truly did have a no-good, horrible, terrible very bad day. It was nice to see him come home to the person he calls home. In 10 or so seconds, without a word, Walton Goggins once again owned the scene ( and yes, you'll be seeing me on the Justified boards come January) Kim Coates is just so damned good. And let's just say that Nero isn't the only one who can rock a cardigan.

 

So, do the events of last night mean that SAMCRO is out of running guns forever, and they're just in the porn/brothel business?

Edited December 10, 2014 by Febgirl

[TigerLynx]

The last scene of Venus, she was alive, so I’m going with Venus lives forever.

 

The ending scene with Jax being chased by more and more police was lame.  I did get a laugh out of Vick/Milo being the guy Jax used to commit suicide.

 

Did they retcon that Gemma and Clay did not kill JT, and the original premise of the show just left the building?

 

When did Jax and Tig get to be friends?  I thought after Tig killed Donna, Jax pretty much hated Tig, and didn’t care if he died.

 

So Chibbs as Pres, Tigg as VP, and Happy as SAA will work because they are all in, and didn’t have the doubts Jax, John Teller, Opie, and Piney did?

Edited December 10, 2014 by TigerLynx

[shirazplease]

Did anyone catch what Tig whispered in Jax's ear when all the hugging was going on?

[RedHackle]

Oy gevalt.  I'm willing to overlook an awful lot.  But exactly what the hell was the point of the mayhem vote, then?  Was it in case the new 'chapel' was bugged and they needed to be able to show the other charter that the vote had been correct?  That's the absolute only reason I can think of for having the vote, if they were only going to blow it off.  Also, not one of the members seemed remotely surprised when they shot Hap in the arm instead of Jax.  Like they all knew exactly what was going to happen - so then, again, what was the point of posing Jax in the middle like that?  To fake out the audience, clearly.  But usually, if you're going to fake out the viewer, aren't you supposed to at least pretend there was another reason for it?

 

Don't get me started on the ham-handed 'symbolism' in this episode.  So Kurt Sublte clearly thinks that all of the viewers are complete morons who have to be hit in the head with a sledge hammer.  He even sticks in a reference to Fellini, for fun.  I had a headache from rolling my eyes up into the back of my head by the end of the episode. 

 

I've been frustrated with the long running times of this entire season - hey, you're eating into the Daily Show, dude, and that good you ain't.  But last week and last night were egregious. If all the overly long tracking shots, bad CGI and gratuitous hugging had been cut, the episodes would have run about 30 minutes. Certainly every single scene ever shown of porn being filmed could have been dropped with no loss of artistic integrity.

 

I know it's obnoxious to take potshots at someone else's work.  But this started out as a reasonably good show and somewhere along the lines it turned so stupid as to be actually offensive.  So if you're going to insult me, show, I'm going to throw some back your way. 

[PiggyRod]

Did anyone catch what Tig whispered in Jax's ear when all the hugging was going on?

 

"I have no words"

"no words"

[henripootel]

"I have no words"

One of the few genuine moments in this episode - guess I just have a soft spot for Tiggie.  When Jax said goodbye to his kids now, I could feel Sutter's hand up my ass trying to work me like a puppet.  Didn't work. 

Edited December 10, 2014 by henripootel

[larapu2000]

Did they retcon that Gemma and Clay did not kill JT, and the original premise of the show just left the building?

 

 

I think Jax realized that his father committed suicide by semi because his father also could not find a way to deal with the shitstorm of SAMCRO.  I think it was made clear that Gemma and Clay were going to do SOMETHING, but JT beat them to it?

[cam3150]

 

Charlie Hunnam has the ODDEST accent I've ever heard.

 

YES!!! It is almost like Jax is trying to do a British accent and failing at it.  It such a weird mix of an accent and then no accent at all.  It  could not get over it during the After show.  He sounds so funny to me when his pronounciation is especially proper, just because it doesn't fit him.  Has he always sounded this way or have his efforts to adopt an American accent caused his real accent to become muddled? 

 

I liked most of the episode. I was not surprised that Jax died, just because you could sense it coming for a few episdoes. But I really was hoping he'd ride off into the sunset somehow.  As soon as I saw that truck, I knew what would happen.  The CGI TOTALLY ruined it for me though.  If they were going to go that route, it could have been implied or even left for the audience to wonder did he really die, did the cops get him, did he somehow manage to get away?  The CGI of him hitting that truck was just awful and should have been cut.  The implied version would have had a stronger impact I think.  I also get what they were doing with the crows but the CGI was bad there too. What were they eating? Bread or part of Jax? I  couldn't tell.

 

I will say, those are the SLOWEST cops in the history of cops. Not one of them could manage to catch up to Jax? Really?

 

I'd give it a strong B+. It would have been an A- without the awful CGI, and A+ if Jax had lived.

[Artsda]

 

So does Wendy get the house and all those lovely, lovely rose bushes?

She gets all the property, plus even Gemma's father.

 

 

Did they retcon that Gemma and Clay did not kill JT, and the original premise of the show just left the building?

Yes, they had Jury point out that JT would have known the bike was tampered with, but went with it anyways.

 

 

Did anyone else find it troubling that the actor who played Opie (and who showed up for the "Afterword" part of the show) is still wearing the beard and long hair?  It feels like he's still trying to hang on to the role.  Dude, let it go.

It's not just him though, they all Charlie included has this attachment in playing these characters where it has seemed to blend into their "reality."  Kurt brought up the beard cutting video, the bereavement they have. That they booked things back-to-back so they didn't have to deal with the loss.  

Edited December 10, 2014 by Artsda

[xls]

Did the crows represent Gemma's crows showing up to usher Jax out? I thought they were eating a piece of him too, but, could it have been the same bread the homeless girl left? What was the point.

 

Why didn't the cops set up a roadblock or box him in? It was like the cops chasing Cartman on his Big-wheel on South Park.

[daughtersofanarchy]

Well, Jax had quite the busy day, didn't he?  And it was still very light and bright out when he embraced the semi.

 

I hope T.O. knows how to do accounting because we know the guys are desperately in need of someone to take Bobby's place on doing the books.

 

Thank goodness we got one last look at the inside of Gemma's office at Teller-Morrow.  That absolutely hideous black and white couch we have seen and loathed a million times, the unpainted walls, the messy bunch of papers tacked to the wall without benefit of a bulletin board to back them up.  And this was the lair of a woman who kept an immaculate house and once said, "I hate clutter.".  Of course she wouldn't have had a problem working day after day in that ugly little shithole.  And she always had Prospects at her beck and call who could have painted and fixed that office up to the standards of her home.  Too bad Sutter never realized that.  But then, he never has worried about being true to the "character" of the characters he has built in SOA. 

 

It isn't Happy Ending vs. Sad Ending that is the question, it is how you get there that is the question.

[yourmomiseasy]

I was put off when I saw this episode was 3 hours long.  Then when I realized that over an hour at the end was the rambling after show, I wished for a 3 hour episode.  So much rambling.  I had planned my knitting around staying up for the 3 hours, so I couldn't just go to bed and save myself, I had rows to complete :).  It also seemed like the montages were extra long this episode, maybe to make them more poignant.  Boy do I hate a montage.  

 

To me, it was satisfying to have things tied up as best they could be.  I think Jax was so blatant in the killings so that there would be no question it was all on him, hoping that nothing would blow back on the club, but at the very least, the Irish situation might be trouble.  

 

I like Tig, probably mainly due to Kim doing and excellent job, but I'm not sure he's a great choice for VP.  He's always been very loyal, but he's caused a lot of problems and hasn't always shown himself to be strategic (to say the least).  

 

At first I was really mad about the selfishness of Jax ruining that tomato hauler's life and putting the guilt of killing a person on him, but then I remembered that I'd been in a car accident where the other driver died and I'm not wracked with guilt and think about it so little that it took me a minute to draw the parallel.  I was sad and messed up about it for a little while, but the accident was 100% the other driver's fault, so I made myself get over it.  When I think about the accident it's in terms of how shitty my injuries are, not how shitty I feel about the other driver being dead.  Maybe I'm a self-centered psychopath, or maybe people in general are pretty resilient.  It was so obviously not the trucker's fault, he has to know that and will hopefully get over it.  

 

 

I think Jax realized that his father committed suicide by semi because his father also could not find a way to deal with the shitstorm of SAMCRO.  I think it was made clear that Gemma and Clay were going to do SOMETHING, but JT beat them to it?

It was mentioned a few episodes back that JT committed suicide.

[monakane]

 

Yes, they had Jury point out that JT would have known the bike was tampered with, but went with it anyways

 

This bothers me a lot because it means that JT was even more of selfish asshole for leaving his kid behind in the Samcro snake pit with Gemma and Clay.  I never understood the worship of JT.  Didn't he leave Gemma behind with their sick child who later died?  None of his actions were that of a concerned father.  Jax may have been a murderous drama queen, but in the end, he put this kids first.

[Ottis]

This thread would be 20 percent shorter if people would turn on close captioning.

 

As soon as I saw that truck, I knew what would happen.

 

 

I knew truck suicide was his plan as soon as he got on JT's bike, to match his dad's death. Then he was just driving around until he found a truck headed his way.

 

Did they retcon that Gemma and Clay did not kill JT, and the original premise of the show just left the building?

 

I don't think so. I think we were supposed to believe that was what happened at the beginning of the series, and perhaps even Gemma and Clay believed it, but actually JT saw it coming and offed himself (in a similar manner to Jax) as a move to save his club and go out on his terms. So Jax became what he was trying to escape. But his kids won't (not).

 

I still don't see what Jax saved. Still lots of issues for his club and kids.

[panthergirl13]

A few "day after" thoughts:

 

- did love seeing CCH Pounder again, although I always yell "Squidward!" when she shows up

- if you want your kids to grow up hating you, why would you hug and kiss them and say "I love you" as the last thing you do? Maybe taking their crayons away would have been a better approach. Jax is even bad at being a bad dad.

- what was the point of seeing Cleanup in Aisle Gemma's-Dad's-House? Another few minutes that could easily have been shaved off this bitch.

- the vote was a complete waste except that it allowed me to say "yay" a bunch of times and entertain myself

[henripootel]

Jax is even bad at being a bad dad.

His 'make sure my kids hate me' plan sounds good until you give it even a cursory pass with the old brain.  Hate never taught anybody anything - why not find a way to stay alive and teach them how to be decent people?  The whole 'I'm a bad man' bullshit renders him as a one-dimensional asshole and negates pretty much everything potentially interesting about him and his growth as a character.  

 

You made lots of bad choices, Jax, if you really want to man up for your kids, you'd take some responsibility for your actions.  No, suicide doesn't count.  If you really were the 'bad man' you think you are, thoughts of redemption wouldn't trouble you.  You're not a tragic flawed hero, Jax, you're a garden-variety dick.  Your death was just the last in a long line of selfish, dickish moves.  

Edited December 10, 2014 by henripootel

[Snookums]

This bothers me a lot because it means that JT was even more of selfish asshole for leaving his kid behind in the Samcro snake pit with Gemma and Clay.  I never understood the worship of JT.  Didn't he leave Gemma behind with their sick child who later died?  None of his actions were that of a concerned father.  Jax may have been a murderous drama queen, but in the end, he put this kids first.

 

 

JT was a horrible father, husband and  club leader, and one of the good points of the series is that blind worship buys you nothing but a handful of ashes.

 

The worship of Dead JT (they did everything but have his effigy hanging on a cross at the headquarters) is what drove pretty much all of Jax's actions, and Gemma's worship of him, then betrayal by him, is what drove her ultra-destructive/total denial approach to her life. She married him as a wide eyed preacher's daughter, a wanna-be wild child who thought she hooked up with biker Jesus, that she was being saved from a stifling home life she didn't fit into and a mother she was at odds with, saved from the "family flaw" of literal defective hearts. (Gemma hinted now and again throughout the series that her mother felt great guilt at both passing on her heart valve problems and deep resentment of her children because of it.)

 

So Gemma marries JT and has Jax, and gets preggers again and everything's great. Except how JT doesn't want the club running guns for the Irish. And really, he was right about that, considering, so I'll give him that.

 

Then Thomas the First is born, with the same heart defect, and dies. Gemma is torn apart, and what does JT do? He abandons her, goes to Ireland, and has a long term relationship and baby with another woman! Wotta man, wotta man wotta man wotta a mighty good man! This wasn't a one night stand resulting in an oopsie, this was him starting a second, "healthier" family. I didn't blame Gemma a bit for waxing wroth, but her revenge took the form of hooking up with Clay and getting the club smack into guns and JT, out of guilt, doing nothing about endangering his entire extended family, genetic and otherwise, except writing a whiny, self-pitying manuscript and committing suicide while making it look like maybe Clay tinkered with his bike. He never made one move to get his beloved club out of guns.

 

Gemma is the one, to be fair, who rigged him up as a worship figure for young Jax, with the club as the congregation (they literally called their meeting room church), to the point that every time some writing of JT's surfaced, like the manuscript or the letters, she'd panic and try to hide/destroy them and set off a whole string of bad things, but when Jax finally got hold of them in the end all they ever did was deepen his idiot resolve to "be like JT wanted" and do this that or the other for his club/family/life that never worked out because he couldn't bring himself to go beyond his dead god of a father. 

 

I had a moment of hope when Jax was burning everything, thinking maybe he'd finally come to clarity about what useless, worthless, life-wasting bullshit the reverence of JT was, but it was all destroyed when he was talking to the damn Death Rock. To the very end, after everything he's thrown down the bottomless pit that was his father's legacy, he's still trying to justify his dad, what his dad did, what his dad's life meant. He took JT's selfishness as his own burden and let it kill him. 

[Artsda]

 

This bothers me a lot because it means that JT was even more of selfish asshole for leaving his kid behind in the Samcro snake pit with Gemma and Clay.  I never understood the worship of JT.

He also left the other kid in Ireland. He knew about Trinity.

 

but actually JT saw it coming and offed himself (in a similar manner to Jax) as a move to save his club and go out on his terms.

 

I don't know what JT's reasons were at this point, because they just on a dime flipped it to his knowing the bike was tampered with and let himself be killed anyways. His original plan was getting out of guns, he had that deal ongoing, leaving Charming, going to his mistress and daughter in Ireland. That was what they said his plan was during the entire season 3 Ireland arc. Clay/Gemma didn't want that and fixed the bike, so the getting out of guns wouldn't happen. Yet aren't they still involved, just now with Connor just not the IRA. 

 

Not surprised there was no video tributes featuring Ron, since he wasn't that thrilled with the writing at the end there. However, it also seems like once Tara died, Maggie was cut off too. Was she not invited to do anything? 

Edited December 10, 2014 by Artsda

[ChicksDigScars]

Yup. He left one kid in the hands of Gemma and Clay (shaking my head...jesus christ!), and the other in BELFAST, NORTHERN Ireland. Whatta prince!

 

Speaking of Trinity, Jax didn't even mention her to Nero or Wendy, He hasn't mentioned her PERIOD since what....season three?  "My boys have an Aunt." Sure, Wendy is Abel of the Corn's biological mother, but Trinity is actually the only blood relative Thomas has left, except for a great grandpa with Alzheimer's in an assisted living facility. 

Edited December 10, 2014 by ChicksDigScars

[La Tortuga]

That slow police chase...

 

...was actually pretty accurate. The goal of a police pursuit is to stop the suspect and capture him safely, not to run him off the road by any means necessary. Because a motorcycle rider is more likely to get ejected from his vehicle and grievously injured or killed, police aren't supposed to pursue him the same way they would a car. Some departments instruct their officers to keep the pursuit speed slow and maintain a certain distance until he pulls over, not "catch up to him." Some departments simply do not permit pursuits of a motorcycle at all--if an attempt to pull over a motorcycle results in the rider trying to flee, the officer would be required to terminate rather than pursue.

 

As far as the many cars and motorcycles in pursuit, we can assume that some of those might have been from other departments (county, state troopers) who were nearby and responded to the pursuit. It is very common for multiple agencies to join in the same pursuit.

[Mrs peel]

Like most people I hated this finale.  Very pretentious and just bad.  The horrible CGI at the climax made me laugh rather than be sorry Jax was dead.  They would have been better off with no visual and just sound. was already taken out of the scene once I realized they seemed to be re-using the same video multiple times; the road changed from 2 lane to 1 lane back to 2 lane without any seeing the lane added/deleted.  I didn’t realize the crows were CGI too, but merely thought they were the club following him, loyally, to his death.

 

I hadn’t thought about the Christ metaphor because so obviously Jax isn’t Christ, but the bread/blood/wine, as well as Jax’ arms-raised motion, speak to that.  Which is stupid.  The homeless woman had bread too, I wondered it was the same bread. 

 

Did anyone else think that, based on the roadway, Jax’ motorcycle should have veered right, and crashed over the edge into the ravine?  Just another reason I was taken out of that scene.  And while I can understand that the driver may not feel responsible, it’s still a pretty shitty thing to bring another person into your own suicide.  Jeez Jax, be man enough to kill yourself by yourself.

 

I also wondered why the cops didn’t try to cut him off, but I don’t know how they would have really shot out the tires.  I think Hollywood makes that look far more easy than it really is, plus all the cops in cars were alone, there was no one not driving who could aim.

So does Wendy get the house and all those lovely, lovely rose bushes?
She gets all the property, plus even Gemma's father.

But was that property in OR Jax’ to give?  Gemma’s dad is still alive.  I get that Gemma likely had a will leaving her home to Jax, and he quitclaimed his (and Wendy’s former) house to Wendy.  But since ownership hadn’t transferred solely to him yet, he really couldn’t quitclaim all of the garage (Gemma probably owned half as Clay’s widow), or Gemma’s home, to Wendy.  And heck, what is the worth of the garage anyway?  It needs to be totally rebuilt, is Wendy supposed to supervise that from Norco or the east coast?  And the houses are likely worth very little too.

Poor Wendy to be stuck with Gemma’s father.  Actually, since Tara was the previous “guardian” (when and why did that happen?), it wasn’t up to Gemma to name Wendy as the new “guardian.”

 

Someone said the kids are doomed because Wendy and Nero never had straight lives.  I disagree that Wendy never had one.  Once out of rehab, she had a regular job (addiction counselor) and her own apt.  Well, until Jax shot her up again and she needed more rehab.  And you could argue that Nero did too, since he did seem – when first introduced – to be long out of the Mayan gang and his business was at least semi-legit.

 

I’ve decided that all these people use the word “love” so much that it has no meaning, so I’m no longer disgusted that Wendy “loves” Jax. 

- what was the point of seeing Cleanup in Aisle Gemma's-Dad's-House? Another few minutes that could easily have been shaved off this bitch.

Katey Segal gets a few more bucks for acting/non-acting?  More importantly, she was outside, dead, overnight.  There would have been bugs, many bugs.  Possibly a coyote or two.  And flies around Unser.

[La Tortuga]

His 'make sure my kids hate me' plan sounds good until you give it even a cursory pass with the old brain.  Hate never taught anybody anything - why not find a way to stay alive and teach them how to be decent people?  The whole 'I'm a bad man' bullshit renders him as a one-dimensional asshole and negates pretty much everything potentially interesting about him and his growth as a character.  

 

You made lots of bad choices, Jax, if you really want to man up for your kids, you'd take some responsibility for your actions.  No, suicide doesn't count.  If you really were the 'bad man' you think you are, thoughts of redemption wouldn't trouble you.  You're not a tragic flawed hero, Jax, you're a garden-variety dick.  Your death was just the last in a long line of selfish, dickish moves.  

 

You're assuming Jax is capable of teaching his kids to be decent people, when that is clearly something he doesn't know how to be at all, let alone teach a child. And I think Jax knows that, because he came into his position as a president wanting to be a good man and turn things around as his father envisioned. But the process of getting there corrupted him worse than he already was (and lets face it, growing up with Gemma would corrupt anyone). Jax is incapable of providing a healthy environment for his kids, and he is well aware of that.

 

Besides which: he killed a lot of people, not all of whom deserved it even by his standards. The social values of his world demanded his death, and any attempt to escape that would probably have resulted in a manhunt by any number of people. Makes it hard for him to settle down in one place with his kids and teach them to live a peaceful life.

[henripootel]

You're assuming Jax is capable of teaching his kids to be decent people

I am, mostly because (ironically) Jax actually cares about stuff like that.  Jax isn't a psychopath, which we know because psychopaths don't care because they're psychopaths.  But Sutter wants to have it both ways - Jax is morally bankrupt (so the best thing he can do is get out of his kid's lives even if that means they're raised by other questionable folks) but he's also so moral that he'd recognize that he's morally bankrupt (so his sacrifice is actually nobel and not a totally, totally dickish and selfish final act).  So he's both beyond redemption and Christ at the same time?  Uh, no, not possible.

Makes it hard for him to settle down in one place with his kids and teach them to live a peaceful life.

Which is far from Jax's only option.  How about turning himself in?  I know prison sucks pretty bad in this world but it's not like Jax doesn't deserve it.  Besides, he wouldn't live long inside anyway, but at least he'd earn a modicum of respect for doing the hard thing.  Killing himself was not an act of courage - if Sutter had studied his bible instead of just 'biblical movie imagery', he'd know that Jesus (arguably) allowed himself to be taken and killed by his enemies, and forgave them for it.  Not not not trying to instigate a religious discussion here, just saying.  

[monakane]

 

Besides which: he killed a lot of people, not all of whom deserved it even by his standards. The social values of his world demanded his death, and any attempt to escape that would probably have resulted in a manhunt by any number of people. Makes it hard for him to settle down in one place with his kids and teach them to live a peaceful life.

 

His other option would have been life in prison where he would have been a target.  Either way, he was a dead man walking.  There were no good options for him.  Maybe it will be a little bit easier on the kids this way.  No matter what, the kids will need lots of stability and lots of therapy.

[LindaC49]

I. too hated the ending and actually most of the season. Just a jumbled up mess of killings and story arcs that went no where or made any sense. Grant you Charlie cleaned up is a good looking guy but that sex scene was exploitation of his backside. More filler to a story line that went off the tracks ages ago. All the crows, wine and bread symbolism I don't think so Mr. Sutter. Jax was no saint or saviour for his family or club. And I actually thought the crows were eating Jax's brain on the side of the road.

A lot of hype with a big let down ending

[gesundheit]

Two things that cracked me up: Jax's "good choice!" response to Chibs' VP selection, as if there were any chance it would be someone besides Tig. Please. It's either going to be Tig or one of the glorified extras! Also, Jax's obscenely patronizing "Chibs, this is how to be a leader" nonsense. Jax was basically the club's little brother when this show started!

 

David Labrava was very sweet in the aftershow. He was really proud that Happy was the only long-term character who "never lied" in terms of any of the internal club deception. Oh honey, he never lied because at least Sutter knew not to give you more actual dialogue!

 

I can't believe after all that's happened, they still act like it's a fun honor to be patched in. Who the hell would want in on that club??!!

 

So the dead eyes and stilted speech by Abel was nothing more than a mediocre child actor.

That is massive overpraise of that child actor!

 

Not surprised there was no video tributes featuring Ron, since he wasn't that thrilled with the writing at the end there. However, it also seems like once Tara died, Maggie was cut off too. Was she not invited to do anything? 

I noticed that, too. With all the trips down memory lane, we never heard from Siff, Perlman, or Lucking. (Lucking in particular seems to have been erased from memory. Which is a shame, he was fantastic.)

 

All said, I'm still hoping that snowball in hell will end in an Emmy nomination for Jimmy Smits.

Edited December 10, 2014 by gesundheit

[La Tortuga]

I am, mostly because (ironically) Jax actually cares about stuff like that.  Jax isn't a psychopath, which we know because psychopaths don't care because they're psychopaths.  But Sutter wants to have it both ways - Jax is morally bankrupt (so the best thing he can do is get out of his kid's lives even if that means they're raised by other questionable folks) but he's also so moral that he'd recognize that he's morally bankrupt (so his sacrifice is actually nobel and not a totally, totally dickish and selfish final act).  So he's both beyond redemption and Christ at the same time?  Uh, no, not possible.

Which is far from Jax's only option.  How about turning himself in?  I know prison sucks pretty bad in this world but it's not like Jax doesn't deserve it.  Besides, he wouldn't live long inside anyway, but at least he'd earn a modicum of respect for doing the hard thing.  Killing himself was not an act of courage - if Sutter had studied his bible instead of just 'biblical movie imagery', he'd know that Jesus (arguably) allowed himself to be taken and killed by his enemies, and forgave them for it.  Not not not trying to instigate a religious discussion here, just saying.  

 

I don't think the Christ metaphor holds up any more than you do, so we agree there.

 

But the fact that Jax cares about his kids learning to be decent people doesn't make him qualified to teach decency. And turning himself in doesn't teach that lesson, either. In fact, it makes it harder on the children in other ways, because if he's prosecuted and convicted of organized crime (along with all the murders, gun running, drug trafficking, etc.) then his assets get seized, and there's just nothing left for the kids. I don't think this makes his suicide noble; I think it just makes it the only thing he has left that he can do without making things more difficult for everyone else.

[henripootel]

... because if he's prosecuted and convicted of organized crime (along with all the murders, gun running, drug trafficking, etc.) then his assets get seized, and there's just nothing left for the kids.

 

Fair point.  But I don't think turning himself in would be an empty gesture, and I'm pretty sure he'd never make it to trial anyway (which he'd probably know).  I think if he dies before he's actually found guilty, in the eyes of the law he's factually not guilty.  I think this is true but no lawyer, me.

 

Calling for a meeting of those he wronged (whomever is left), letting them kill him as some small recompense for his many murders - that might have been an interesting choice.  Better than the one we got.

Edited December 10, 2014 by henripootel

[lacEdoll]

I was never confirmed that JT comitted suicide, only inferred by Jury who wanted to phuk with Jax' head in that episode. It was the only time anyone ever mentioned the possibility of JT comitting suicide. He died when his bike went off the road into a semi if I remember correctly, and his brakes had been proved to have been tampered with. It then was revealed through his writings that Gemma and Clay set JT's demise into motion. 

JT's death was never retconned as a suicide...only inferred as such. Jax went out the way he saw most fitting, in the moment as he saw a truch approaching. It was symbolic for him to die like his father died. And because it was time in his mind's eye.

His 'make sure my kids hate me' plan sounds good until you give it even a cursory pass with the old brain.  Hate never taught anybody anything - why not find a way to stay alive and teach them how to be decent people?  The whole 'I'm a bad man' bullshit renders him as a one-dimensional asshole and negates pretty much everything potentially interesting about him and his growth as a character.  

 

You made lots of bad choices, Jax, if you really want to man up for your kids, you'd take some responsibility for your actions.  No, suicide doesn't count.  If you really were the 'bad man' you think you are, thoughts of redemption wouldn't trouble you.  You're not a tragic flawed hero, Jax, you're a garden-variety dick.  Your death was just the last in a long line of selfish, dickish moves.  

Agreed...I think if Jax had wanted to man up, he'd have allowed himself to be indicted on whatever counts the DA chose. Be sent to prison to live out the remainder of his life on death row or whatever...and perhaps tried to do some good there with the time he had left. Now that could have been a much more interesting twist as an ending to the show. And left the viewers wondering if Mayhem would eventually do him off in prison.

[Gudzilla]

Compared to the finales of Spartacus (Excellent) and Dexter (The Worst) it falls somewhere in the middle for me. It might be that I'm still unhappy that Gemma never had a comeuppance, but as someone else said it kind of felt like checking off a to do list (which it kind of was) until the inevitable end.

 

I'm glad Happy made it !

 

To those who are saying no one would believe Jax could escape by shooting only one guy, these are the guys who earlier that day let someone escape (Conner) that didn't hit anyone.  

 

My aunt had a GTO just like the one Conner was driving.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Gudzilla

[LoveLeigh]

I think the finale was just.... unimaginative. Now St. Elsewhere has one imaginative ending! I think of Six Feet Under and The Bob Newhart Show, and they set the bar for finales. SOA ended just like an ordinary episode. 

 

Sad in a way because KS had possibilities with the homeless woman. While I would not expect the entire series to have gone on inside her own head, he could have revealed who she was in a shocking way. Make her the woman who gave birth to Jax but he was kidnapped by Gemma. Make her related to a character on The Shield in crossover content. There were so many possibilities, and he just dropped the ball with a predictable ending.

 

I predict: again no Emmy nominations in 2015. 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAOVxqg49DQ

Edited December 10, 2014 by DakotaLavender

[Chaos Theory]

Wow.

That final bit made my allergies act up a whole lot. What was that last song? Fit well with the series.

I really am going to miss this show. It was imperfect and quite often a hot mess but it moments very few show.can make my cynical heart tear up like tis one can.

I didn't need some last minute twist. I liked that the final episode just tied up a whole bunch of lose ends. I also liked that Hax did right by his kids by gicing them to Wendy but I liked seeing Abel with the Sons ring which lame aves his fate open ended. Did Gemma already infect him?

I Really am going to miss this show.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Chaos Theory

[Febgirl]

Six  Feet Under remains my favorite Series finale ever.  I was a sodden mess when that was done.  

Can I just say that Happy's toothpick acting skills are top notch?

Edited December 10, 2014 by Febgirl

[glitterpussy]

I can't figure out what Martin Luther or Pericles has to do with all of this. It's driving me crazy.

[Pickles Aplenty]

I never expected SoA to have an imaginative ending, to be honest.  Jax handling his affairs, saying his goodbyes, and taking his own life?  That's more in tune to what the show always was, IMO.  Something abstract or super ambitious just wouldn't have made sense.

 

I also really like the song Sutter wrote.  I know the lyrics are super obvious, but I like the way it sounds and I think it works as the send-off song.  Are these opinions unpopular?

[Snookums]

Also, Jax's obscenely patronizing "Chibs, this is how to be a leader" nonsense. Jax was basically the club's little brother when this show started!

 

 

I yelled "Shut UP, child!" at the TV. Chibs' patience is beyond superhuman sometimes. 

 

I can't figure out what Martin Luther or Pericles has to do with all of this. It's driving me crazy.

 

 

Or with each other, frankly. I could not make sense of those lyrics.

[Guest Accused Dingo]

I know people are going to throw stones but this reminds me of the way Breaking Bad ended.  The real ending of Breaking Bad was Ozymandias but the show went on for a couple more episodes to tie up lose ends.  This show did the same thing.  The real end was Red Rose this episode was just Jax tiring up lose ends so that his club and his family wouldn't face repercussions for his actions over the season.      

 

That is not saying I didn't enjoy the episode.  Several of the conversations were interesting and I liked that they finally let the black guy (sorry I forget his name and I hate that I am calling him "the black guy) into the club.   Watching Jax kill all the people and watching the police and the DA show up after he was done with the looks on their faces was fun to.

 

This was not the kind of series finale where there was twist and turn at every angle.  I think the only real twist was with Able and his ring.  Did Gemma get to him enough to infect him was Jax letting him go with Wendy enough to save him front he life he has lived?    I am of the opinion and always have been that Jax was two people that were waring with each other.  A good man and a good criminal;  I never said an honest man...I said a good one.    The show called it who he is and what he is and I always agreed that those two things were always waring inside of him.    I think at the end he found peace between the two.   

 

Love the song.   Is it on iTunes?   Hell what is it's title?  

 

I can't figure out what Martin Luther or Pericles has to do with all of this. It's driving me crazy.

 

 

Martin Luthor was a German friar, Catholic priest, professor of theology and seminal figure of the 16th-century movement in Christianity known later as the Protestant Reformatio....Luther came to understand justification as entirely the work of God.  Against the teaching of his day that the righteous acts of believers are performed in cooperation with God, Luther wrote that Christians receive such righteousness entirely from outside themselves; that righteousness not only comes from Christ but actually is the righteousness of Christ,    I think the point of this is that fighting for a good cause is a good cause or something like that.  I think Luthor did other stuff as well and is well know as a Christian warrior.  

 

I am not sure about Pericles but it looks like he was both a Scholar and a warrior which is what I think Sutter wanted Jax to be and kinda sorta succeeded.  Jax was supposed to be "as smart as he is dangerous."  

Edited December 11, 2014 by Accused Dingo

[lion10]

Love the song.   Is it on iTunes?   Hell what is it's title?  

 

"Come Join the Murder" by The White Buffalo & The Forest Rangers.  These guys are genius.

[WatchrTina]

To everyone wondering why Happy got shot I figured with went like this:

 

Jax promised the other presidents that he'd make sure that the Mayhem vote went the right way.  It was necessary for the good of the greater organization.  A president killing a president could not be allowed to go unpunished.  But the presidents didn't really need Jax dead at the hands of his club.  They just needed him dead and they needed to be able to say that the club voted to have him meet Mr. Mayhem.  They know Jax didn't have a shoot out with his club but that's the story they are going to tell their rank-and-file members and thanks to Happy's sacrifice they can truthfully say that one of the Samcro members took a bullet during Jax's "escape".  The presidents will maintain the lie that Jax was punished by the club in accordance with the club rules.  He was on the receiving end of a Mayhem vote and he's dead. It's enough.

 

Now can someone remind me how we know Tig has an issue with dolls?  I've swear I've seen every episode but I don't recall that.

[Ohwell]

When Jax was being slow-chased by the cops, I was expecting to see a News 4 chopper overhead.

 

I guess it ended as it should have, but I was underwhelmed.  After the show ended, I just sighed, murmured "huh?", rolled over and went to sleep.  No need or desire to see the after show.

[BetyBee]

"Come Join the Murder" by The White Buffalo & The Forest Rangers.  These guys are genius.

 

I like it too and I like the play on words of "a murder of crows".

[Chaos Theory]

I can't figure out what Martin Luther or Pericles has to do with all of this. It's driving me crazy.

 

 

Considering how bloody this show is, it has had a unusual amount of mysticism surrounding it.  Both Jax and Gemma have seen "ghosts" and Jax and the homeless girl and not to mention the spectra of John Teller that has been haunting the show since day one.  It is interesting that after the homeless woman told Jax that it was time the camera veered off and then focused on bread and wine  both are important symbols of religion.  I do not know about Pericles but Martin Luther is one of the great and early religious leaders so that fits in with the mysticism of the series.   I won't say religion but I will say there was alway been a arc of freedom vs predestination which the show at least partly ended with with Able.  Is he doomed to follow in his father's footsteps or can the fact that his father tried to do the right thing and put him in the care of good people be enough to save him?   Martin Luhter believes righteous acts are performed in cooperation with God and giving his sons to Wendy and Nero was as close to a righteous act as Jax was capable of.   

[justawatcher]

anybody catch who did the Elvis cover?

[Artsda]

anybody catch who did the Elvis cover?

Leatherface sang the Can't Help Falling in Love cover.

 

Now can someone remind me how we know Tig has an issue with dolls?  I've swear I've seen every episode but I don't recall that.

 

In season 1, Opie and Tig end up in a doll warehouse and that's the first time Tig admits that dolls scare and creep him out I think. Then it's been an ongoing thing, like when Tig went with Gemma to her dad's house, Tig took all the dolls/figurines and turned them around so he wouldn't have to look at them.

[Decider]

I Can't Help Falling In Love With You by Leatherface.

[millennium]

I vowed at the end of last season that I would break the cycle of abuse (no pun intended!) and stop watching Sons of Anarchy.   I liked the early seasons, I enjoyed Charlie Hunnam as Jax, but I could no longer stomach Kurt Sutter's weekly love letters to Katey Sagal.   Especially since they came at the cost of actual plot.    The Gemma-centricity of the show reached a point where I felt stupid and suckered for having watched each week.   The ugly and needlessly brutal slaying of Tara -- no doubt in the interest of crafting a memorable scene for Queen Katey -- was the last straw. 

 

I kept my word and stayed away and I think I'm better for it.

 

Just stopped by to say I'm glad it's over -- and what a waste of potential.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Something that rang true to me within the conceit of the show, but would never have happened in real life, was the agony of the entire MC over Jax' fate.  Not one of them would have come to hate Jax with the fire of a thousand ninjas when it was revealed that the ruination of the club was all about Jax' blood family?  They were all so highly evolved (Chibs turned into freaking Mr. Rogers!) that they would more feel jax' pain than the anger and fear he caused?  Riiiiight.

 

The MC is absolutely doomed.  Chibs is one helluva great foot soldier, but he is not the sharpest pencil in the desk.  He'd have been a decent president within the MC world, but the MC had long ago left the confines of that culture.  Tig as his wise counsel?  Child, please.  Here again, your basic patched member would be furious with Jax for what was left to the MC.  

 

If I recall correctly, weren't Chibs and Tig each against Jax' going legit gambit last season?  When it all fell apart, at great, great cost to them all, why would they have continued their unfettered fealty?  Of course, Bobby was made to be a complete fool.  Here's the thing:  None of them were that dense.  Then, magically, they were.  What hackery.

 

Does anyone know if there was a rule that dictated a time limit and/or method for carrying out Mr. Mayhem?  

[Texasmom1970]

Of course it was obvious with Jax taking care of his affairs how it would end I still had to stick it out. Glad Nero, Wendy and the boys are headed to the farm! Think I will miss Charlie's amazing posterior most of all.