S06.E10: The Trial

[A.Ham]

I nev understood the term "hate-watch" until about the 4th season of this show. I always figured if you hate a show, just stop watching it. I must've been in a masochist mode all along, but last night was the straw that broke the camel's back. This show just reminded me of that horrendous, insufferable movie "August: Osage County". The people you root for, which are not many, just have the worst luck at every turn. The writing is so horrible and inconsistent, yet it feels like the writers think they are oh so clever. I am exhausted and done.

[Tetraneutron]

 

As if Alicia doesn't have enough problems in her campaign, she does stupid shit like the Grace note? This particularly plot twist was so unnecessary! What purpose does it serve, except to show how ill-equipped Alicia is for office (or at least, to run for office).

That whole plotline was stupid. It's the first time I've watched the show and not been able to accept what was happening onscreen. I don't expect TV shows to be documentaries, but they have to be internally consistent. Alicia has always been depicted as cautious, intelligent, reserved, aware of consequences, in control of her emotions. The last thing she is EVER going to do is write a threatening note, even as a joke, and not burn it immediately after. And I'm sorry, over GYM CLASS? Like Grace would care in the second place. It's gym. You show up, wear the uniform, and half-ass it, you get an A. Everyone knows this, including Grace. There's no way even a braintrust like her would be upset about it. And again - 16-year old from a political family. He dad's the damn governor and she doesn't get you don't joke about school shootings? We had that plotline a few seasons ago where Peter's opponents were following Grace around to get ammunition, even on something like her kissing a boy. But she still gives a teacher the note? I'd believe an affair with Howard Lyman before I'd believe this shit.

 

The show knows this. They tried to handwave it by thre string of coincidences - the civics teacher, the husband deciding to use it as leverage blah blah blah but come on. There's no way Alicia writes that note, there's no way she isn't immediately aware of the consequences, and it's stretching it that Eli and Johnny don't dump her as a client.

[kia112]

The most intriguing thing about this episode was when Bishop yelled at Kalinda "What the hell do you think you're doing?" but the actor clearly said "What the fuck do you think you're doing," but they dubbed "hell" in.  Then again, my DVR cut off the last 10 minutes, so maybe I missed something more intriguing.

[needschocolate]

IMO, this show is the best acted, worst written show on TV, perhaps ever on TV. 

 

Apparently the Kings are still trying to turn this show into a comedy - the note, the judge's mishaps in the bathroom, the judge singing Sweet Caroline (really, what purpose did having the judge get concert tickets have to do with the storyline? - it didn't even give us any insight into his character) - and, IMO, they still aren't successful at the comedy writing.   The actors on this show do an incredible job of acting out the horrible drama storylines, but only the ones playing Eli and his daughter are good enough to turn any of the horrible comedy writing into anything humorous. 

 

My husband has a very good ability to overlook idiocy on tv shows and just roll with it.  I am the one who is says "but that wouldn't happen" or "that makes no sense" and he just says "it's just a TV show, don't think about it so much."  I try not so say everything I'm thinking out loud, so I don't ruin the TV show for him.  That note plot was so ridiculous, that he was the one who said "Alicia would never write a note like that."

 

I know it'd probably would've been out of character, but I wanted Carey to blow up at Bishop, or Kalinda in the house, but Carey better. It's Bishop' s fault he's going to jail, he has done everything, EVERYTHING to protect that asshole and still he screws him over?? I wanted Carey to tell him that he wouldn't be having to go to Barcelona if he had let Dante testify. If i were Carey I'd have taken Geneva's offer and testifiy against Bishop. Of course, then I'd probably get killed by one of his henchmen, but I don't think straight when I'm super mad. And mad for me, beats scared at all times. At least Carey could've scream a bit at him.

 

 

I was hoping that Cary would agree to testify against Bishop, then, after all the paperwork was signed, Kalinda would shoot Bishop and this miserably storyline would be over. 

 

I do not understand the interlude with the juror who had trouble hearing.  Even he would have had trouble with Dante's testimony, so why bother with all that confusion about his hearing?

 

It is like the writers recently discovered this auditory problem and really wanted to write it into a story. 

 

I've never had a problem with the lack of Kalinda/Alicia scenes but I agree that it's ludicrous that they aren't working together in this situation.

 

Hmm, perhaps the reason why they had Alicia run for office, despite that it makes no sense since she just started her own firm, is so that she would have a reason not to represent Cary and, therefore, she wouldn't be forced to be int he same room as Kalinda.

[Shelby]

I haven't seen the actress who plays Geneva in anything else, but here she only has 2 expressions: pout or smirk.

She used to be on One Life To Live, many years ago. Lots of obligatory lingerie scenes... she has an enviable figure, but that's where it ends with her.

Her acting was exactly the same on OLTL. You can barely tell she's playing a different character on TGW.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Shelby

[lovinbob]

It is like the writers recently discovered this auditory problem and really wanted to write it into a story.

 

Exactly what I suspected.

[Sandman]

I had the idea that the guy who came into the courtroom with the note for Geneva saying "We have to talk" was her husband or partner. I thought that's why she told the detective to quit making eyes at her on the stand -- because her spouse was suspicious. I thought this triangle was going to lead somewhere, like maybe Geneva's been a mole in the SA's office the whole time, but I think it was just a red herring.

 

I also didn't care about Judge Cuesta and his Neil Diamond tickets or his muffin angst; why did we need to see that asinine business twice? So much of this episode went absolutely nowhere. I agree with marceline's speculation that of the Cary/Kalinda/Bishop storyline, one will end up in jail and one dead -- but Bishop will not be the inmate or the stiff.

[Black Knight]

I do not understand the interlude with the juror who had trouble hearing.  Even he would have had trouble with Dante's testimony, so why bother with all that confusion about his hearing? 

 

They surely will bring back the plot of Geneva's love triangle, otherwise why introduce that? 

 

And something will overturn this, because it is not just two years in jail -- it is the loss of Carey's license to practice law.  And howver bad the writing is, that will not be the arc. 

Yup, something will overturn this - and that's the hearing problem of the juror. One Life to Live used exactly that plot device way back when - a trial conviction was overturned when it was discovered that a juror's hearing aid had been malfunctioning. I wonder if Renee Elise Goldsberry (who plays Geneva here and played a defense attorney on OLTL - in fact I think she was playing the defense attorney in that very trial who used it to get the conviction overturned) told the Kings about it, because it just seems too coincidental.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Black Knight

[lovinbob]

I also didn't care about Judge Cuesta and his Neil Diamond tickets or his muffin angst; why did we need to see that asinine business twice? So much of this episode went absolutely nowhere. I agree with marceline's speculation that of the Cary/Kalinda/Bishop storyline, one will end up in jail and one dead -- but Bishop will not be the inmate or the stiff.

I thought I knew where they were going with this. Courtroom proceedings are so dependent on a judge's particular mood or whim (or at least, that seems to be one of the thesis statements of this show). The fact that Cuesta was having a bad day could really hurt Cary. I just didn't feel that they followed through on it. It would have been cool if one of the attorneys (or Kalinda) could have leveraged this by being helpful to Cuesta and perhaps this would influence the case. But as it was, this plot point seemed to go nowhere.

[izabella]

I nev understood the term "hate-watch" until about the 4th season of this show. I always figured if you hate a show, just stop watching it. I must've been in a masochist mode all along, but last night was the straw that broke the camel's back. This show just reminded me of that horrendous, insufferable movie "August: Osage County". The people you root for, which are not many, just have the worst luck at every turn. The writing is so horrible and inconsistent, yet it feels like the writers think they are oh so clever. I am exhausted and done.

 

I felt that way after the Kings had Kalinda's ex-husband beat up Cary in the parking lot for no discernible reason, and it never came up again, and it was never revealed to anyone what had happened or why.

[Flame Princess]

I was shocked at the exclusion of the juror, but perhaps that's because in my state, if you claim deafness to get out of jury duty they find you an interpreter. There was no reason why he couldn't have made notes of what he found confusing and discreetly asked to have the trial transcripts read back later.

[CaughtOnTape]

I can't say anything about this show that hasn't already said.

But I wanted to say one thing.

 

I was riveted by Matt Czuchry during that scene where he was telling Kalinda he was gonna take the deal.

 

Riveted.  He was awesome.

[SaabStory]

 

Hmm, perhaps the reason why they had Alicia run for office, despite that it makes no sense since she just started her own firm, is so that she would have a reason not to represent Cary and, therefore, she wouldn't be forced to be int he same room as Kalinda.

I agree.  It seems like TPTB knew they needed to do something to separate their work lives to somewhat explain the lack of scenes together.  The first step was working at different firms and now the SA's office.  I imagine they thought this would set up a S7 where the separation made some sense.

 

Jeez, I always thought they were going down the road of Kalinda being in love with Alicia.  The scenes on Alicia's bed, the drinks and I think I vaguely remember Kalinda's ex, Donna, being jealous of Alicia. I would have rather had Kalinda confess, Alicia explain why it's not possible and have Kalinda have to keep her distance for her own sake.  At least I could understand that reason for the distance.

Edited November 24, 2014 by SaabStory

[readster]

I can't say anything about this show that hasn't already said.

But I wanted to say one thing.

 

I was riveted by Matt Czuchry during that scene where he was telling Kalinda he was gonna take the deal.

 

Riveted.  He was awesome.

Matt Czuchry is all that is left that is good about this show. Of course he is going to jail, everyone else has no intelligence from Alicia writing a letter her character would have never written in a million years. To the fact that Bishop hasn't been accidentally shoved in front of a moving bus. Or how Geneva is still bitter about Cary.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I still don't care about the election but I do enjoy seeing David Hyde Pierce. He needs a show of his own.

 

I have the feeling he works when he wants to and doesn't because he doesn't want to.  I think he was nominated for an Emmy for all 11 seasons that Frasier was on, if you can believe it.  If he hasn't offered been several shows already, it would be very strange.

 

For his work on Frasier, Pierce was nominated for a Best Supporting Actor Emmy a record eleven consecutive years, winning in 1995, 1998, 1999 and 2004. - Wikipedia

Edited November 24, 2014 by Ms Blue Jay

[shapeshifter]

Things I just don't get:

...

• Geneva Pine, beautiful, accomplished woman having a career-threatening affair with a slimy looking detective.

What? Why? At least they could have made the detective someone sexy and enticing. Not that John Ventimiglia isn't an attractive man, but he is kind of known for playing losers and punks, and as he was portrayed on this show, there isn't anything about him I'd find alluring. I wish I had some idea why Geneva would go this route....

It looked to me like Geneva was prostituting herself (giving the "girlfriend experience") to the detective in exchange for dirt on Bishop. But I have an overactive imagination, so it might not have been that at all. Edited November 24, 2014 by shapeshifter

[Litnit]

As a teacher, I found the whole story line with the note incredibly stupid. I get it was a stupid joke, but how did Alicia think the school should respond? A kid walks in to a school with a threatening letter, the school ignores it, the kid's parent goes ballistic on the school, and the entire world rips them a new one for ignoring the threat. Yes, it is highly unlikely Alicia is a serious threat, but I don't know how she and her campaign can be upset at the school. Then to have it be contrived into a teacher union thing? Please.

Oh, and Grace, you're an idiot. My 7 year old knows the difference between things we joke about at home, and things we tell at school.

I have no idea where this thing with Carey is going. We can't spend two seasons with him in jail?

The Finn storyline seems so juvenile to me. I'm over it too.

[AudienceofOne]

Oh, and Grace, you're an idiot

 

 

 

Because, as Alicia said, she wrote that note as a joke months ago. Probably before she even started running. Why would Grace even keep it for that long?

[kwnyc]

I do enjoy seeing David Hyde Pierce.

 

Me, too! I hope that if he wins the election (and I suspect he might), he can become a semi-regular presence on the show, which would add another excellent actor to the mix. We're missing more Eli because Alan Cumming's doing Cabaret, we haven't seen Clarke because Nathan Lane has gone from "It's Only a Play" to "The Iceman Cometh," and Michael Cerveris, a reliably hissable villain, is going into the Broadway production of "Fun Home."

[Cutty]

When Julianna Marguiles won the Emmy last year she said something like, "Josh Charles, I love you. But what were you thinking?" Maybe he was thinking the writers have lost their minds and he wanted to get the hell out of dodge.

 

I love how they make sure Alicia checks in with Cary periodically as if everyone doesn't already hate her. JM is on autopilot at this point.

 

Did enjoy the opening with the judge trying to buy Neil Diamond tickets. We've all been there.

 

Also, the ASA sleeping with the cop, aka Artie Bucco. Did I miss something or did she just get the note from what I think was her husband and that was it?

[webruce]

Where did Cary's bodyguard go? Or did he feel safe since Lemond Bishop told him he was?

Kalinda threatening Lemond Bishop with Social Services taking away Dylan, did get her Dante Wallach. But he did not under oath tell the real story he told them in the hall way. Bishop it seems will be the reason Kalinda leaves town. But hopefully not in a body bag or with cement shoes. She did seem to have her old gutsyness back when she talked about Dylan to him. But the offer from Bishop to go to Barcelona to Cary is interesting. I didn't think he would say yes. But it may come up later. Maybe he and Kalinda will take it? I liked the desperation in Cary. He held Diane's hand and Alicia's. Then the big hug when he came back to the offices and Alicia was waiting. I'm interested in what will happen since she told him to fight. Diane almost had him convinced to take the plea. But he did plead guilty. We see both Bishops GF, and Pines BF, wonder if anything will come of that?

ASA Geneva Pine was interesting today. Will we be seeing more of her? She seems to have had a fling with Detective Gary Prima(Dino-Blue Bloods). He is the one that arrested Cary. Will something come of that?? James Castro was still trying to get Cary put away. I still don't see the reason he dropped out of the race? Is it that the actor can't be on as often now so they had to change the story line? I was surprised on Prima's testimony.

The little part about the hard of hearing Juror, Steve Fratti was interesting. I guess it was just used to slow down the trial. Did Judge Richard Cuesta get to see Neil Diamond in concert? lol. The Judge in chambers telling Diane and Geneva, Well shush, both of you, " was funny. Seems the Judges are getting away from quirky to more real? Unless most of the weird ones were dropped after the "Will playing basketball with some", incident?

Alicia writing the "stab the teacher note" was kind of dumb. Also Grace actually taking it to school compounded that. All the hub bub over it by Principal Adam Englehart was warranted. Even if Alicia kept poo-pooing it off. Eli reading it and saying he didn't see the joke, was funny. Even if Alicia was not running for office or had a hubby in office should she have wrote that note. But even though Alicia turns down the Teachers Union offer, Peter took it. Then Principal Englehart and Corrine Slavik told the press it was all a joke.

Frank Prady got word of the Alicia school note ofcourse. But he made a statement before he knew Alicia had wrote it. This all seems to be to coincidental all the time. I think he is playing a dirty campaign, but keeps saying it wasn't him or he didn't know. But we see Alicia's people look like they do the same thing.

Finn and Alicia together seems to have changed(for now). He said they are just friends and meet at a diner and not a bar. It wasn't totally convincing, but a start. The diner lights going out and the guitarist maybe a sign of things to come?

[CleoCaesar]

Matt Czuchry, episode (season?) MVP. He's giving his A-game and makes this tiresome trial at least somewhat bearable. When the drug dealer was testifying that the recording was real, Cary's face just crumpled in quiet despair - almost made me tear up.

 

I LOATHE the faux-quirkiness on this show, but the note storyline actually got a few laughs out of me. Mostly due to Mary Beth Peil's delivery of "Alicia is a good mother. She would never stab a teacher.” And JM's delivery of “I tried to stab a teacher because I loved my daughter??”.

[possibilities]

Doesn't eating breakfast together imply having spent the night? And looking for hole in the wall diners looks like trying to evade detection. Of course, someone will take a photo of the candlelight, just like someone took a photo of the roadside sobriety test. Blah blah blah-- are we supposed to be moved to sympathy for the way politicians are hounded by bullshit media? Or are we supposed to be annoyed that Alicia is such a hypocrite? Or... what?

 

Surely, if they had enough evidence for social services to take Bishop's kid, they'd take Bishop's kid? Why would the SA sit on that kind of evidence, and did Finn steal the photos when he left work there? Is that somehow not a violation of his oath he would be comfortable with, when he wouldn't be comfortable with talking?

 

And why did Geneva offer a better plea just when she began to win the case? When you are winning, isn't that when you start to get tougher?

 

I thought originally they were trying to show that the judge would railroad Cary just so he could get out of there in time to pick up his concert tickets. But, though he was irritable, I didn't think in the end they showed him being particularly unreasonable with his actual rulings.

 

It's true a hard of hearing juror would (or should) be given reasonable accommodations. The problem, I think, is that the juror didn't disclose his need for the accommodations, and had therefore allegedly/probably missed what was going on for the first part of the proceedings, until his disability was disclosed. So they have a situation where, essentially, the jury was one person short for a portion of the trial.

[MrWhyt]

The problem, I think, is that the juror didn't disclose his need for the accommodations, and had therefore allegedly/probably missed what was going on for the first part of the proceedings, until his disability was disclosed. So they have a situation where, essentially, the jury was one person short for a portion of the trial.

Also by not disclosing it upfront he denied both the defense and the prosecution the opportunity to exclude him on those grounds.

Edited November 24, 2014 by MrWhyt

[Tetraneutron]

 

Surely, if they had enough evidence for social services to take Bishop's kid, they'd take Bishop's kid?

We've seen over the course of the show, that the SA wants Bishop in jail. He's their white whale. They'll do anything (sketchy prosecutions, sweet deals for murderers) if it means they have a shot at him. They would only be interested in Dylan if it gets them Lemond. So I guess Kalinda was hoping to convince Bishop that the SA taking Dylan and that would rattle Bishop so much he'd panic? Because it was pretty stupid. The only way Cary would get Bishop's help is if he thought it was worth his while.

 

Which just brings it back to, why is the SA framing a man they KNOW to be innocent? Why would they want to put Cary, specifically, in jail? It can't be for PR, not when the rich lawyer gets 2 years and the drug dealers get nothing. And it can't be about punishing or intimidating Alicia into not running against Cary, even if they tried to retcon that. Cary was arrested well before Alicia considered running - just a few hours after Eli brought it up, in fact. So, why? The only reason is to scare Cary into giving up info on Bishop, but then we see this episode that Geneva doesn't really see that as likely anyway. So why are they bothering?

[izabella]

Which just brings it back to, why is the SA framing a man they KNOW to be innocent? Why would they want to put Cary, specifically, in jail? It can't be for PR, not when the rich lawyer gets 2 years and the drug dealers get nothing.

 

Ah, yes, that reminds me...don't they first have to prove that there was some illegal drug running going on AND that Lemond Bishop and his henchmen were involved before they can convict Cary of helping them deal drugs?  Hmm?  They haven't proved anything like that as Bishop and all his henchmen are neither in jail nor arrested nor under indictment.

[possibilities]

Also by not disclosing it upfront he denied both the defense and the prosecution the opportunity to exclude him on those grounds.

Excluding someone from jury duty just because they have a disability is discrimination, and illegal, though on this show that might not matter.

[AudienceofOne]

why is the SA framing a man they KNOW to be innocent? Why would they want to put Cary, specifically, in jail?

 

 

Because they're hoping he'll flip. And the only way they can force that issue is to take it all the way. When Geneva came in to offer him the final deal, she was extremely subdued. She knew he was backed finally into that corner but backing him there also means they're committed to locking him up for something she knows he didn't do. They can hardly turn around now and admit they framed him, can they?

 

Mind you, Geneva's always been very... Geneva. It's possible she believes Carey really was working for Bishop while in the ASA's office. It'd fit into her persecution complex. She'd see sleeping with that cop to manipulate him into helping her and framing Carey as just the same kind of things everybody else is doing. And maybe if she bags Bishop she'll finally get that promotion she's always thought she deserved.

 

Castro, of course, just hates Alicia and Carey going to jail would hurt her so that's an added bonus for him.

[izabella]

Geneva better watch her step, then.  If her boss will frame an innocent man because he holds a grudge, then he's just as likely to frame an innocent Geneva if she gets on his bad side or he is trying to save his own ass in some way.  Who will take the fall if this is discovered?  Geneva, his prosecutor.

[dr pepper]

Kalinda wins the week, though. She got to pretend to make out with Dana Scully.

[milkyaqua]

As for Alicia being drunk when she wrote the note, considering those big glasses of wine she drinks at home, I don't disbelieve.  However, I still go with Grace being the world's dumbest teenager.

 

I also can't figure out if the Geneva-having-an-affair-with-the-cop-that-arrested-Cary is supposed to play into possibly getting Cary out of his current jam.  With this show, I go with red herring.  It's like someone mentioned up-thread about Cary being beaten by Kalinda's husband and never brought up again.

 

Which is another reason that even though this current story-line including Alicia's run for SA is annoying to me, I just take it as more the the Kings messing around and not caring either way.  They basically said after the Kalinda's husband fiasco that the audience just didn't get it.  So maybe a lot of us aren't getting these two story-lines now.

 

As for Bishop being more prominent, I liken it to General Hospital being the Sonny Corinthos and mob show.  Though I do think that when they write Archie out (and I still say Feb sweeps is a possiblity) that Kalinda will have found a way to resolve the Bishop equation, even if I would miss Mike Colter and his suits.  As for Kalinda not taping her convo with Bishop, I get the feeling he's probably got his house wired to pick-up pesky electronic devices...

[MrWhyt]

Excluding someone from jury duty just because they have a disability is discrimination, and illegal, though on this show that might not matter.

my law education at the fine school of Television has shown me that lawyers have a limited number of peremptory challenge that they can use to reject a juror without needing to give any reason. If the prosecution or defense knew of this condition they could have rejected him and another juror would have been selected in his place, this juror might have been more receptive to either side of the trial than the juror rejected.

 

edited to add: Since Cary took the plea and the case never went to the jury this is all sort of moot.

Edited November 25, 2014 by MrWhyt

[CMH1981]

Well not much more to say about Alicia and the note of disbelief....I think the creators/writers are now writing all these stupid things she is doing so we will believe the reasons as to why she won't be elected to office.  If this was any other candidate Eli and the other guy would have dropped Alicia for the mistakes she has made photo op wise, skeletons in the closet, and now threatening a teacher on paper...not to mention who is behind her PAC (still show....nothing?!?!) and that she is still meeting her opponent like it isn't a big deal in closed offices w/o their knowledge.  Ah well...

 

I have a question here, but if Kalinda would kill Bishop, it wouldn't really take care of Cary's issues here would it?  I mean he can't testify against the dead man right?  I really can't see a way that Kallinda could save Cary at this point.  I really wish that Cary would have taken Bishop up on his offer to relocate to be honest.  Yes it would suck for Cary b/c he could never come back again, but ah well...Bishop would more than likely take care of him for life...until he was done w/him then dispose of him basically.  Bishop would have paid the firm for the loss of the bail money, or at least that is what I would hope.  I hope he wasn't thinking that Cary would pay that money back from the funds Bishop pays him for his legal service.  

[jjj]

Yes, the judge did get to the concert -- the next day, he hopped down from his seat while humming a Neil Diamond song.  (Was it "Sweet Caroline"?  Can't remember, but it was one of the top Diamond hits.) 

[solargal]

Did anybody else think the diner where Alicia and Finn met looked like the diner on E.R.?  I thought Alicia's comment about the diner might have been a throwback to her former show.  Any thoughts? 

[Morbs]

i was really flipping out in my head while watching the show about how strained the writing was with the entire note storyline so it was really cathartic to see other people ranting about it.  I think this is rock bottom. 

[panthergirl13]

Everything else has been said, so I'll just add this:

Those freaking faucets drive me nuts too.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I still go with Grace being the world's dumbest teenager.

ITA - not only was she carrying this note around for no reason but then she took it out and showed her teacher. "Is this an example of satire?" I mean, seriously.

[jjj]

Everything else has been said, so I'll just add this:

Those freaking faucets drive me nuts too.

??? Faucets?

[Pollock]

No idea what the various courtroom shenanigans were about (dismissed juror who they show overhearing Cary and Kalinda -- why? DA distracted by love affair -- why?).  

There was no "why" in the long run for those things in my opinion. It was just all those little things "life goes on" during a trial, some of those things screwing Cary a little bit further.

- the judge being in a bad mood for jury selection and pretrial stuff

- dismissing the only juror convinced he is innocent.

But Bishop's fight with his girlfriend (even if a astute poster suggested here that she could be in play later and it could be), the ADA thing with the cop, I feel it was to tell the little stories behind the big one.

 

Personally I found it as gripping as always although the note thing annoyed me.

 

But the one thing I didn't get was why Bishop was keeping Dante away from court. Isn't it also in his best interests for Carey to not be put under extra pressure to flip?

I wondered too. But with the finale scene between him and Cary, maybe it was also to test him on some level while backing him in a corner and have him work for him ? Bishop can't have him pledge fidelity by killing someone after all...

 

I guess like the cheese, I stand alone, but I am loving this season! I acknowledge the plot holes, I don't really care about the campaign story, and I definitely need more Diane, but the Cary/Kalinda/Bishop thing and everyone who ties into that is making up for any deficiencies. Cary has always been the most interesting character to me, perhaps because they didn't feature him as much, and I'm really enjoying the focus on him. This is the most engaged I've been with TGW is a long time.

Let me be the bread to your cheese, AudienceofOne you can be the wine if you want ! 

 

I love this season too. I don't quote all your post but I agree with everything except I do care for the campaign. Not for the outcome but I like all characters involved now that Castro is out so it's an enjoyable plot.

(Sidenote : as a foreigner, I'm always amazed that you vote for who represents you for justice, like in Longmire to elect the sheriff or here, the DA. It's quite an interesting process (and a interesting take on democracy) to watch, even romanticized on tv. It's not the case in every state if I understood correctly so that also intrigue me.)

 

Also, they did a good job to not let the audience know for sure what's coming for Cary and Kalinda. Will he go to jail ? Will Kalinda die ? Will she make a deal for witness protection in exchange of Cary not going in ? Or if she's killed (nooooooooooooooooo!), will it be the declic for Cary to testify against Bishop ? Some much fear, so little time !  

[kwnyc]

 

Did anybody else think the diner where Alicia and Finn met looked like the diner on E.R.?

YES! I thought I was just being nostalgic. Waiting for Carter to come in after his shift ;-)

[ChocButterfly]

I really wish that Cary would have taken Bishop up on his offer to relocate to be honest.  Yes it would suck for Cary b/c he could never come back again, but ah well...Bishop would more than likely take care of him for life...until he was done w/him then dispose of him basically.

Noooooo! Why would Cary want to leave his home for LIFE to work for a kingpin that could kill him at any moment?? By taking the deal at least he could go out of jail in 2 years, yeah, his career as lawyer would be over, but he could even study something else, start his own business, or do whatever. The last thing he wants to do is stay involved with Bishop.

Actually, when Bishop offered him the Barcelona deal I was hoping Cary would scream to his face that why would he continue working for a man that has basically betrayed him, even though he has done EVERYTHING to protect him. Why would he trust Bishop now, when all this time Bishop could have let Dante testify and instead he purposely screwed him over? 

 

The other thing that really bothers me is that the only reason Cary is in this whole mess is because they took Bishop as a client. You know, if you get involve with drug dealers, this is what you get. But if I remember correctly, Cary didn't want to take Bishop as a client, no? I thought it was Alicia who insisted and the partners voted on it. So, if this is correct, then it's Alicia's fault Cary is in this mess. Someone, please help me remind me if I'm correct or not.

Edited November 25, 2014 by ChocButterfly

[Hanahope]

So first with the judge.  I hate those sensor things in bathrooms, I can never get them to work, so I understand the judge's frustration.  Someone upthread mentioned why did the judge wait until the day of the concert to book tickets.  I'm guessing he totally forgot about his wife's birthday (or anniversary, whatever it was).  Either she made some mention of loving Neal Diamond that morning and/or he saw on his calendar the birthday and it suddenly occurred to him to get tickets.  Happens to men all. the. time.

 

What I don't understand is why did Bishop have Dante lie.  Was it really just to "show up" Kalinda?  I mean really, you're going to let one of your lawyers, who's a potential risk to you, go to jail because you got pissed off at Kalinda?  Or was it always Bishop's plan to send Cary to Europe, essentially "held hostage" to doing Bishop's work because where else would Cary go, without money, a legal career, or a home?  Did Bishop need a "trusted" lawyer in Europe that much?  I just don't get Bishop's reasons.

 

I can understand why Cary turned down the offer.  Either way, go to jail or Europe, he'd never practice law in America again.  So his choice was either to be a tool of Bishop's the rest of his life, however long Bishop allowed him to remain alive (golden handcuffs for sure, but still handcuffs - he'd never be really free again), or to go to jail and while never be a lawyer again, once he got out, he'd be of no use to Bishop, but no longer a risk either.  There would be no reason for Cary to betray Bishop, because Cary would never get anything out of it, he already did his time, but Cary would never have to work for Bishop again either. 

 

I agree that there is a real possibility that Peter will pardon Cary, he'll stay out of jail, but I don't think he'll be able to keep his law license.  He'd still have the conviction on his record, unless somehow it was eventually expunged (proof of fraud on the court or other evidence that it was a frame up).

 

Regardless of when Alicia wrote that note, she was stupid to have ever written it.  As the wife of the governor, and a 'famous' attorney, that was shear stupidity to write the note, or at least let Grace keep it and not burn it immediately after having their laugh.  You don't write/keep notes like that in this day and age of 'no tolerance' in the schools.

[shrewd.buddha]

Part of me admired Bishop for going all gangsta on Kalinda's  ass when she vaguely threatened custody of his son. That's the kind of person he is. 

Both the Police and Bishop seem to want to corner Cary for their own purposes -- which is pretty suck-y for Cary.

 

...but this is what happens when you lust over a known drug kingpin's money and look the other way when it comes to how he got all that money. Diane and Will were the worst when it came to taking on the worst clients with the deepest pockets. I only wish they were paying the price instead of Cary..

[kwnyc]

Though with the upcoming election, Castro will be out, and whoever gets in next (and unspoilered, I don't think it's going to be Alicia) can investigate the ongoing cases and uncover the frameup. If it goes that way, Cary goes free and has a MASSIVE lawsuit against the State's Attorney. After all, in the world of the show, the Governor of Illinois was convicted of a felony, went to jail, was released after it was shown he was framed, and has won TWO elections since.

[Boundary]

At this point Cary's potential lifeline is Lana, the woman he hates. So does he choose jail time or to swallow his pride when Lana offers to help Kalinda save his ass?

[Rhondinella]

It's great to see Czuchry finally be given some actual acting to do. I've loved him since Gilmore Girls but he wasn't given much to do except be the cocky rich boy until just recently on this show. I think he's underrated and often underused.

[AriAu]

Did anybody else think the diner where Alicia and Finn met looked like the diner on E.R.?  I thought Alicia's comment about the diner might have been a throwback to her former show.  Any thoughts?

 

I would have loved it if she had said something like "I can't believe you took me to Doc Magoo's (or whatever the name was), the ugliest diner in Chicago and full of all these doctors in scrubs".

 

On a less funny note, it is VERY, very hard to get out of a plea deal. Someone is going to get into big trouble for whatever grounds are found to get him out, like going to jail bad trouble. Would like to see Castro behind bars, but I think it will be Geneva, which is too bad.

[morgankobi]

Speaking of: When Castro said, "you know what to do," and Geneva said she did, what was he referring to?

 

If these weird side vignettes were intended to be "slice of life around a trial" sort of things, they failed. Miserably. 

 

If a pardon wouldn't allow Cary to practice law, then it won't happen. (Plus it would be a very stupid move on Peter's part.) I can't see the show putting Cary in jail unless it's only for a very short time while the appeal is somehow happening immediately. What would be the point of Cary if he couldn't practice (on the show)? I think something has to happen in the short time between the change of plea and when he is supposed to report to jail.

Edited November 25, 2014 by morgankobi

[jjj]

No appeal in a plea deal.  I think we are all waiting for the evidence of  prosecutorial conduct in Cary's case, leading to exoneration.