Small Talk: The Prayer Closet

[Readalot]

co-signed.

ditto. (And "People Are Strange" by Echo and the Bunnymen just popped in my head)

I think I starting reading TWOP forums back in the late 90's when I was pregnant with my first born. I think "Once and Again" was my first campaign I set $ to (a billboard outside the studio to SOS) (I could be wrong my memory is hazy, maybe it was a different site) but I it seems that I was TWOP forever. I remember the limited edition T-Shirts, I remember "SARS is not the disease, it's short for Sarah". I remember Jon and Kate plus 8 getting kicked off TWOP and they started their own site. I remember the big group hug after the "Six Feet Under" finale (I do miss that forum). Anywho I was active in lots of forums and the point is nothing like this ever happened. But regardless, I'm still happy PTV exists and that this subforum exist.

[burlsa]

Xinamarie, I want to respond to your post. Right now I'm distracted and you need my full attention. I know in no way that you are a fraud. I remarked several times how sincere your story to WW was. I cried when I saw you're help to her, when I knew that WW was a scammer.

But I want you know that I know that you are not the sock.

As far as the sock goes, the situation was handled.

[Julia]

I think I might have been one of the posters who mentioned starting a donation account, but I swear I'm not a sock (what does that mean, btw? Is it a dummy account meant to bolster the scammer's posts?).

It's someone throwing their voice into a virtual sock puppet in an attempt to create a social environment where they won't be challenged. It could be a supporter, or it could be someone unhinged and abusive who happens to have the same position as the people you want to discredit (there was a legendary megatroll named msscribe who had about a dozen of those).

Razing Ruth, as I recall, had an abusive sock which was supposed to be her father, but my impression was that she generally relied on allying herself with social leaders, who then took challenges to her as a reflection on whatever they thought their authority was.

Hey, neural-plasticity. I've seen you around :)

 

ETA: was your local troll the woman who got Brad Paisley to sing to her 'dying baby'?

Edited October 17, 2015 by Julia

[BOOgen3]

Reading all our comments, I cannot help but wonder if the "actor" behind the character "WW" is sitting at his/her computer right now quite enjoying all the chaos and hurt he/she has created and his/her ensuing notoriety.  

[amitville]

I feel very stupid about this whole WW situation on many levels. First of all, now I am paranoid that people think I am the sock or the sock puppet or whatever it is called. I offered that woman access to my blog! She would have had a treasure trove of information and pictures to steal to perpetrate her fraud. I already feel like some of the things I told her are notes for sounding more believable in her next fraud.

 

And the most ironic thing is that I am an information professional. In my defense, I came in on the tail end of her story. I was vaguely aware there was a lady on this thread that had a preemie, but I did not go back to the very beginning to get all the details. I was getting confused with some of the things she was saying because it didn't jive with my own personal experiences. I have never heard of a 30 week baby needing Synergis shots for starters. I even debated whether I should say it out loud in a post --- like whose medical advice is this to get the shots? but I decided questioning her would make me look like an unfeeling ass. And I was surprised when she mentioned the baby still had a cannula. Even now I am not sure how old "Maisie" is supposed to be. She mention her growing into 3-6 month clothing and I thought, surely she must be much bigger than that. Anyway, little things that didn't make sense but did not scream fraud.

 

To add to the irony, I JUST went on a FB rant about the disfigured, electrocuted, maimed baby AMEN posts I see littering my newsfeed. After some research I discovered those are click bait and companies make money off of them. And that many times a child's photo has been stolen and used without consent. And then I even read about people pretending to have children and using fake pictures to garner sympathy from people online and it still didn't click in my head! I was even in a preemie mom group that warned about protecting our blogs because people harvest pictures and use them for dishonest purposes. I feel.so.stupid.

 

I original started watching 19K&C when they had Josie because I thought there would be some awareness on micropremie issues and their development addressed and then I realized sadly, it was going to be quite the opposite. Which makes me so mad. It could totally have been an opportunity to educate people about preemie issues, but instead they just swept it under the rug and acted like she is totally normal. At that time I made a post about my own personal story on TWOP and I got smacked down for talking about personal stuff on the episode thread. So I was thrilled there was this prayer closet where we could talk about things and interested to find someone with a similar experience to my own in the thread, too.

 

The topic is very emotional for me and so I really wanted to reach out and help guide someone down this really confusing road. We continue to live it each day because of our daughter's developmental issues. I don't give money to unknown people, so at least my cynicism helped out there. I like to give information. I think it can be just as valuable as money sometimes. It can be very empowering and I wanted to help empower someone whom I thought was vulnerable and lost.

 

eta: Seems like I always have one more thing to say. I am the one that mentioned bussing the Down's syndrome kid. It was unnecessarily exclusionary and the kid was thriving at his local high school. Then they made him go to the special school an hour away. Yes it is all about the least restrictive environment. That is the law. We don't warehouse kids anymore that are not perfect.

 

Oh and WW did engage me point by point on one of my messages which is why I am really feeling paranoid that people think I am the sock.

 

And now all of this is hours of my life I'll never get back.

Sweetie ((((((((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))). 

[theredhead77]

So I slept on it and I have so many questions this morning.

 when you say "sock" is that person real or just another profile the Con has set up to reinforce itself?

5) I'm asking because a few minutes before I got my refund on Thursday I got this gofundme msg "We are closing this at Maisie's mom's request and you may all have your money back. Sadly, she didn't want drama and appreciates emotional support more than financial."

 9) how do you research online scammers?

 

I can answer some of your general questions -

 

A sock aka a sock-puppet is a second account by the same user. Usually they post to back up the first "trollish" user.

I suspect the Con got word of the scam and took it down (along with their final post about not wanting drama) to try and garner up more sympathy where people would reach out to them offline and offer to send money via snail-mail or other electronic methods

Online scammers tend to have the same MO. A sad story gets more and more elaborate and dramatic. I was on another message board where someone "died" and their "husband" was left to raise their "two children" who were "disabled". Except no one died, there was no husband or children.

 

[JoanArc]

Reading all our comments, I cannot help but wonder if the "actor" behind the character "WW" is sitting at his/her computer right now quite enjoying all the chaos and hurt he/she has created and his/her ensuing notoriety.  

I'd be afraid a white van would pull into my driveway with some nice men looking to ask me a few questions....

[Chicklet]

On a tangent- Where the hell did the term SockPuppet even come from? I mean you can make puppets out of socks and and don't bring up Sock Monkeys, they scare me.

Inquiring minds and all that.

[amitville]

I can answer some of your general questions -

 

A sock aka a sock-puppet is a second account by the same user. Usually they post to back up the first "trollish" user.

I suspect the Con got word of the scam and took it down (along with their final post about not wanting drama) to try and garner up more sympathy where people would reach out to them offline and offer to send money via snail-mail or other electronic methods

Online scammers tend to have the same MO. A sad story gets more and more elaborate and dramatic. I was on another message board where someone "died" and their "husband" was left to raise their "two children" who were "disabled". Except no one died, there was no husband or children.

 

Holy shit I think that con hit the  bravo boards .

[Tabbygirl521]

On a tangent- Where the hell did the term SockPuppet even come from? I mean you can make puppets out of socks and and don't bring up Sock Monkeys, they scare me.

Inquiring minds and all that.

I don't actually know, but I picture one person with a sock on each hand, making them talk to each other and an audience.

[lookeyloo]

At page 92, I found early mentions of GoFundMe. Looks organic, several people started saying they'd like to help.

OMG, I went back and looked and I think it was me!  I thought I was being helpful.  Please don't lump me in with the sock puppets!  Learned my lesson!!

[Jellybeans]

I am still digesting this. One, why the hell did I not question Maisie's prematurity AND the timing of her very invasive cochlear implant surgery? No Otologist would implant a premie wearing a cannula. Especially if she is wearing a hearing aid. And she never said anything about her exposure to sounds, good or bad.

Parents who have deaf babies are VERY interested in what their child hears.

[XinaMarie]

Xinamarie, I want to respond to your post. Right now I'm distracted and you need my full attention. I know in no way that you are a fraud. I remarked several times how sincere your story to WW was. I cried when I saw you're help to her, when I knew that WW was a scammer.

But I want you know that I know that you are not the sock.

As far as the sock goes, the situation was handled.

Thank you. I feel silly I didn't know and others did and you cried for me! You are so sweet. If someone had PMed me and told me she was a scammer I would have totally believed them. It makes so much sense once it is pointed out. I really am a pretty logical person. I am also very cynical and suspicious by nature so I am really having a tough time realizing I was duped. I tend to be very self-analytical and I am trying to figure out my blind spot. I think it was my need to discuss my issues with someone else that understood them. And my need to be a smarty-pants and have all the answers. This is a teaching moment for me.

[Jellybeans]

Holy shit I think that con hit the  bravo boards .

Do you have a link??

[amitville]

OMG, I went back and looked and I think it was me!  I thought I was being helpful.  Please don't lump me in with the sock puppets!  Learned my lesson!!

 

 

Sad I think we all learned a lesson.

[Cherrio]

I and my mother & brother did 23&me to find out genetic information for our doctor, which is correlating pretty well with various things she's observed...

 

Personally we thought the price was worth it, and the worst part was the saliva sample.  After I did mine I worked out a way to show my autistic brother how to do his, and did another saliva sample-taking in parallel with him (gathering samples for lab tests for an adult autistic man is Such A Trip).

 

Anyhoo, it's been really interesting, and neither my mother nor I are spending as much time on the site as we wish we could.  We are all ridiculously Northern European (in excess of 99% - who does that?), and while my brother and I both have small amounts of sub-saharan African, my mother's only non European ancestry is less than .1% Yakut, which my brother and I both share with her.

 

Seriously, our Neanderthal ancestry is larger than that.

 

Anyway, the results are fun to explore, and cheaper than a couple of nights at the movies.

Just being curious, I would love to send in a sample of a dog's saliva and see what results come back.   :)

[amitville]

I am still digesting this. One, why the hell did I not question Maisie's prematurity AND the timing of her very invasive cochlear implant surgery? No Otologist would implant a premie wearing a cannula. Especially if she is wearing a hearing aid. And she never said anything about her exposure to sounds, good or bad.

Parents who have deaf babies are VERY interested in what their child hears.

 

Miss Jellybeans I must say this has given me indigestion

 

[Barbie]

I am still digesting this. One, why the hell did I not question Maisie's prematurity AND the timing of her very invasive cochlear implant surgery? No Otologist would implant a premie wearing a cannula. Especially if she is wearing a hearing aid. And she never said anything about her exposure to sounds, good or bad.

Parents who have deaf babies are VERY interested in what their child hears.

I wish I would have said something b/c so many people are hurt over this,  But WW lost me when the insurance company made her move the baby to a cheaper hospital causing her to be deaf and WW wasn't saying anything about suing the living crap out of them... That was totally a red flag... 

[Patricia07]

My concern was WW talking about letting Maisie go off with the bitch HW girlfriend and a seemingly uncaring STBX.  I didn't understand how a mother could not fight this.  I almost PM'd WW to let her know that she should be careful, but I only recently started following the story and I didn't know if it was court-ordered or what.  I decided to mind my own business.  

[Julia]

Just being curious, I would love to send in a sample of a dog's saliva and see what results come back.   :)

 

Ancestors from Dalmatia?

 

You know, there are people who do this kind of crap specifically because they think everybody ought to be as cynical as humanly possible, and they enjoy throwing the cat amongst the pigeons.

 

I think the lesson is not to distrust everyone, it's to politely ask the questions, and to not close ranks against the person asking questions. Which is pretty much what we were doing already, yes?

Edited October 17, 2015 by Julia

[amitville]

Do you have a link??

 

 

Bravo message boards have been closed for years.

[fireice13]

I think we all need to remember as well that being supportive and helpful says more about us as people than about the scammer. Unfortunately, there are people who would take advantage but I think becoming less trusting lets those people win in some way. Even with donating it still says more about you then the person scamming you for your money. I always give some money to homeless people with dogs because anything to do with animals pulls my heartstrings and maybe it's a scam and I"m out a little money, but if it isn't a scam then that person and their dog can get a hamburger from McDonalds. 

 

I've been wanting to do that genetic testing to see what all I am and the percentages. I posted earlier about my ancestry and I know it's at least 8, but I have a feeling there may be more. I might look into doing that.

[Bella]

We'd like to strike a balance between caring and caution.

 

Please rest assured that the mods and others at PTV have a very good grip on the sock puppet situation. Neither we nor the researchers are going to reveal more of what we know because making it public could enable the con artists to perfect their craft, so to speak. If questions go unanswered, that is why.

 

At the same time, it would be sad if we ended up with a witch hunt here. So let's err on the side of trusting each other, and if someone pings your radar, please tell the mods so that we can flesh out our already solid picture a bit more.

 

Thanks!

[amitville]

You are very wise Bella.  Thank you for always popping in when we need you the most.

[emma675]

Bella, can I ask one last question? Have WW's account and the sock puppet account been closed/suspended so neither can post on the site again or PM members?

[kathe5133]

To those who feel bad for falling for WW’s bullsh*t, don’t.  Trust and caring are good traits.  These traits should be celebrated.  People like WW are the ones at fault and the ones who are “stupid” and “blind”.  I did see the posts likening “her” to Razing Ruth, and loving a good story, googled Razing Ruth.  But, I never put it together either.  I didn’t offer her any money cause I don’t have any money to offer, but I admit that I looked forward to reading her stories in the Prayer Closet more than any of the other Duggar Threads.  I actually haven’t read anything from the Duggar threads in weeks, just this one.

The only thing that gave me pause about her story was how could this have truly “come out of the blue”.  I would think if you marry a deficient human being there must be some signs before he leaves you to get another woman pregnant.  I felt bad that WW obviously missed those signs and married the creep, but did feel that she played some part in his leaving.

WW – I’m sure you are reading this in whatever new incarnation you’ve made for yourself.  Really, get some help.  You are truly mentally ill.

Edited October 17, 2015 by kathe5133

[Satchels of gold]

Omg I just read that police agencies are trying to access 23 and me and ancestry.com data bases in order to secure DNA for crimes. Just yesterday I was on here saying how great it was. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PEOPLE DONT EVER LISTEN TO ME I WILL LEAD YOU DOWN THE PATH TO RUIN! FIRST WW AND NOW THIS! IM SORRY,!!

[burlsa]

I don't actually know, but I picture one person with a sock on each hand, making them talk to each other and an audience.

Exactly! It's the same person holding each sock puppet but we are to believe that each sock is their own individual. :)

[bigskygirl]

WW and any possible sock puppets are still allowed to post and send PMs. If anyone gets a PM and feels uncomfortable and does not understand why a certain poster sent them a PM, please feel free to let a mod know right away. The mods and the site administrators are keeping a close eye on the situation.

[amitville]

WW and any possible sock puppets are still allowed to post and send PMs. If anyone gets a PM and feels uncomfortable and does not understand why a certain poster sent them a PM, please feel free to let a mod know right away. The mods and the site administrators are keeping a close eye on the situation.

Thank you

[springtime]

I think the board needs a word to use to warn other posters to be careful-

 

"Adidas" might be a good choice-  because Nike is already taken! lol

[fireice13]

Every time I hear Adidas I think of Phoebe from Friends:

"Are you in there little fetus?

In nine months will you come greet us?

I will buy you some Adidas."

[MarysWetBar]

Fuggin bullshitter works for me :)

[CalicoKitty]

I had both of my elderly parents do the Ancestry.com DNA tests, and the results were very interesting.  My mom, who is the last of her siblings or cousins, always thought that she was 100% German, since both of her parents were born in Germany.  Turns out she is 75% Eastern European and only 8% Western European.  Polish, yes.  German, not so much.  My dad's was very interesting, too.  We have had a lot of fun with this, and it gives me more information and direction for my research.

 

I'm typing with only 9 fingers since my pruning sheers accident.  I really didn't expect THIS MUCH pain.  HappyFatChick, Please give your son my sincere sympathy for the pain he must be going through.  I only lost my entire finger pad, not my entire finger!

[BradandJanet]

I was taken in by WW's story, although as I look back, the drama grew exponentially and that should have been reason for doubt. Still, the scammer was pretty good, building her story with details, then when people were invested, pulling back and posting less frequently. Intermittent reinforcement, I guess. She certainly took over the narrative on this thread, and I'm glad that's finished. 

Edited October 17, 2015 by BradandJanet

[Happyfatchick]

Remember when she/he posted that total rant when the husband came to pick up Maisie, with the pg girlfriend in tow? I'm way too lazy to go back and find it, but I remember when I read it, she was spitting mad and not sounding like our laid back WW AT ALL. I never got any kind of ping on my radar, and in fact offered to embroider some things for Maisie. Even with that rant post that (looking back) probably was posted by someone else entirely, I never GOT it. I'm so embarrassed. I made my professional career (before doing seats that would hold Chris Evans' butt) reading people. Knowing pole. Reading through people. Finding holes in people's stories. Epic fail!!!

[emma675]

Ah, Chris Evans' butt. That image makes everything better.

[burlsa]

Remember when she/he posted that total rant when the husband came to pick up Maisie, with the pg girlfriend in tow? I'm way too lazy to go back and find it, but I remember when I read it, she was spitting mad and not sounding like our laid back WW AT ALL. I never got any kind of ping on my radar, and in fact offered to embroider some things for Maisie. Even with that rant post that (looking back) probably was posted by someone else entirely, I never GOT it. I'm so embarrassed. I made my professional career (before doing seats that would hold Chris Evans' butt) reading people. Knowing pole. Reading through people. Finding holes in people's stories. Epic fail!!!

You read people in person. You could physically see them. You could watch their actions and reactions. You don't get that through the Internet.

This story played out over over 10 months. And the inconsistencies were so minor that unless you were keeping track of every little thing that she said on every board, you would miss it.

I'll give you an example. Early on she posted that her and her husband's names both began with a's, then on some other thread she said her name was Crissa. Then on here months later she called her husband Mark. So unless you had wrote down those specifics, you would have missed it.

[Featherhat]

I only ever briefly saw WWs story here and there so I didn't really think about it and I don't know much about any medical details so reading a post here and there didn't . So many of us can relate true "tales of woe (and drama)" that it doesn't always seem odd at first .

I only came in at the end of the Razing Ruth drama when people were actively calling her out, but what finalised that lie to me wasn't the drama necessarily but that she'd supposedly been hired by one of the best Library systems in the US with just a BA and a telephone interview. Nope, sorry, not happening. People with Masters in Library Science struggle to get those types of job, no way are you getting it that easy. Funny its the little things.

Then there was her "dad" who popped up in the comments every time people started asking awkward questions, who apparently accused her of fornication after her first period but when she explained what it was, became all smiles and told her to add her cycle to the family board. A Dad could be a creep either way but both extremes seemed unlikely. Not to mention that no one could find a trace of this "ATI patriarch" who knew the Duggars when he "died".

No one should feel bad about wanting to help out, everyone who did so thought they were helping a person in trouble. I now have a policy of never giving money to sob stories over the internet because of things like this. But if someone said "I don't know where the next meal is coming from" I might try and offer to order a supermarket delivery (depending on area) or similar heartfelt gifts to "Maisie" etc. If a person says "I'd rather have the money you know what they're truly gunning for.

Edited October 17, 2015 by Featherhat

[graefin]

Yea when you start a conversation with "no offense meant" you mean the opposite.

That's actually not what I meant, but thanks for telling me I was wrong! <shrug> Apparently I was right to be skeptical in this case ;)

[Muffyn]

Last night I went to dinner with two very attractive guys who are doing construction on my house.  My neighbors have been asking me how I get all the cute guys for my project.  We ended up having more than a few margaritas.  Let’s just say it wasn’t one too many; it was a pitcher too many.  And that pitcher was shared by only two of us because one of the guys had to leave.  The lead guy had parked his car in front of my driveway.  Parking is hard to find in my neighborhood.  He was too drunk to drive, so he left the car there overnight.  Now my very gossipy neighbors are thinking I got lucky, very lucky.

[Mrs. P.]

What do you guys make of the long period when Wanderwoman was silent? I remember coming here and seeing people asking 'Where's Wanderwoman? Where's GEML?' And everyone was expressing great concern for them, especially For Maisie. What was going on with her/him during that time?

[GeeGolly]

What do you guys make of the long period when Wanderwoman was silent? I remember coming here and seeing people asking 'Where's Wanderwoman? Where's GEML?' And everyone was expressing great concern for them, especially For Maisie. What was going on with her/him during that time?

I'm guessing two things. One, it's her modus operandi, and two, it wouldn't sound very believable that a mother of a medically needy infant going through chemo would have the time or feel up to posting. 

 

Plus, she had too move and all ;)

[BradandJanet]

What do you guys make of the long period when Wanderwoman was silent? I remember coming here and seeing people asking 'Where's Wanderwoman? Where's GEML?' And everyone was expressing great concern for them, especially For Maisie. What was going on with her/him during that time?

 

I think it was part of Wanderwoman's "technique." She made us think think that she was so consumed with her problems that she couldn't post. We worried about her absence, so the discussion continued in the absence of information. This is just a theory. She could have been in jail for all we know. 

[Twopper]

This just blows my mind.  I have been following the Duggars ( and other shows) for eons on TWOP (hence my name) and now here, but I mostly lurk.  I think it is in part because I always felt I should read all the earlier posts, and by the time I did that I felt I had nothing to add or had no time to write a post.  I would usually glance at this thread so I was familiar with Wanderwoman but for some reason I tended to skip her posts--perhaps due to length and perhaps due to her giving out too much info.  I think I looked a few times at Tazing RUth and was somewhat shocked to find out she was a fraud. I am so glad everyone is getting refunds from gofundme. What I don't quite understand is whether she started out with the intention of conning people out of money or whether she just got a kick out of making up stuff so people would sympathize.  

[BradandJanet]

The money was refunded, but the credit card number and other information are still out there. 

Edited October 17, 2015 by BradandJanet

[GeeGolly]

Another thought occurred to me. I have no problem sharing my life events but I am afraid of revealing my identity. Really mostly because for all I know I have clients on this board. But now I am more aware of the many silent readers, which I tend to forget about, and they too could be people I know.

 

So, thank-you WW and your cohorts, for making me more internet savvy and aware.

Edited October 17, 2015 by GeeGolly

[NextIteration]

This is for HFC.

 

My second marriage was a modest justice of the peace affair with a small gathering of relevant family at a very fancy lovely restaurant after as a reception.  Our honeymoon consisted of time up north for the weekend at my family's "up north" place.  "Up north" has real meaning in my state...  Anyways, it was in October so it was wood splitting time so my brand spanking new hubby and my father were off splitting wood when all of a sudden all manner of cuss words and a bit of high pitched pains sounded so the women ran to see what happened, the tip of my new husband's left ring finger was gone!

 

I dug through the leaves and found his glove with the tip in it, we threw it in a cooler on ice, bound his finger and iced it and headed to the hospital.  Of course, we ran into a long train - and I'm yelling and screaming and gesturing and honking at the Engineer to no avail. :(

 

They couldn't reattach it.  He was in the hospital for a night.  Here's one good bit of news for you HFC, because it only took his first knuckle, it didn't get his whole nail bed which caused all manner of infections and aggravation over the years, so perhaps having it clear off will help your son once he acclimates to it. ? ♥

 

Silver linings maybe?  I always sort of felt like that cursed our union being his wedding ring finger, and I wasn't wrong.  Probably not really because of that. (That would be children with disabilities as I've attested my problems with husband about before.)

Edited October 17, 2015 by NextIteration

[Guest]

I'm relatively new here, so I don't fully understand what just took place with WW on this board. 

 

However, I just want to say that I was one of the people that didn't respond to the GoFundMe link that I received in my PMs, but I watched as you guys, complete and total strangers acting in good faith, donated $375+ in a matter of hours to help someone in need (or at least claiming to be in need) before it was taken down. 

 

Forget the fact that it turned out to be a fraud.

 

Y'all are amazing people. You guys were willing to take it take it upon yourselves to help more people in a few hours than Dillard Family Ministries has helped in a few months. Even if you guys aren't religious people by nature, each one of you still managed to be #BetterChristiansThanTheDuggars. 

 

This newbie takes her hat off to all of you. 

Edited October 17, 2015 by Guest

[NextIteration]

That's actually not what I meant, but thanks for telling me I was wrong! <shrug> Apparently I was right to be skeptical in this case ;)

 

Perhaps then, you could express what "no offense" really meant, before writing us all off?