S21:E10 Finale/ATFR

[Kendra143]

Jenn is seems like she would be very high maintenance. Let Devin talk  without being so over the top?? She was “so in love” with Marcus the day before the engagement to Devin. She is in no way ready to be in a relationship.

[DEL901]

This rings true. He felt inadequate.   So he cut and run.  

Oh, Jesse.  You should have told your bosses to shove it when they told you to show the proposal.

[srpturtle80]

What a shit show, making her watch the proposal. 🤢

[Diana Berry]

Feel bad that he hurt her like that.  He’s clearly a man child.  She can do better.  Get your happy back , Jen.  

[DumbDucks]

I can't help but feel like he love bombed her. 

 

[dizzyd]

It was clear they didn’t give her a choice. What was the point of Jesse asking her permission?

What a dick move, show!

[Stats Queen]

Jesse has done such a great job tonight. He’s been great all season.

[Quickbeam]

My husband…”he’s not wearing socks! He has no core strength!”.

Edited September 4 by Quickbeam

[DEL901]

He was an absolute jerk for how he broke up with her, but I have to wonder how he felt watching her with Marcus…right up until the end…

[JenLily]

This is wretched, forcing her to watch this. Having her humiliation play out live like this is gross. 

[Diana Berry]

8 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

This rings true. He felt inadequate.   So he cut and run.  

Oh, Jesse.  You should have told your bosses to shove it when they told you to show the proposal.

I still think him seeing her say that she loved Marcus turned the tide with him.  But he still didn’t have to be so cold when breaking up.

other thought, there is alot more going on and Devin ( maybe just maybe is not telling the whole story)

thanks Jesse for putting this woman through the ringer.  I know he can’t say anything but yikes.

 

 

 

 

 

[Madding crowd]

I think a lot more went on then we were shown. I do feel bad for Jen but I also think she needs some therapy and stops falling for guys who aren’t ready for marriage. They dragged out the stuff with Marcus too much-do they have future plans for him?

[dizzyd]

So there’s the end to a crappy season. Jenn was doomed from the start because she wasn’t the 1st or even 2nd choice for lead, her personality on Joey’s season was boring and she had the worst selection of guys. She ended up out of the show’s requirement, picking the one who promised her the most but couldn’t deliver.
 

I wasn’t going to watch Joan’s journey but she has a lot of silver foxes, so I will.

[Hybiscus]

Devin was kind of sleazy at the beginning of the season, got into altercations with the other guys, bullied his way for time with Jenn.  Maybe he got better as the season went along, but I wasn’t watching.  Honestly, I think he was just on the show for the “fame.”

How has this show lasted so long with such a dismal record?

[Artsda]

Lol I disliked him from start and believed Aaron. He was right. He was fighting and terrible at the start. He was never good guy. 

She didn't let him talk and seemed like the clubbing or Instagram posts bother her more than it should. 

 

Edited September 4 by Artsda

[Adeejay]

Now I know why Devin's edit changed in the middle of the season.  Couldn't have a villain as the winner.  Jen would have us believe that he abruptly called off their engagement; I have a feeling there is more to the story.

[Arkay]

I’m not a Jen fan, and I know this is a show about ratings and not about love, but that was CRUEL to make her sit with Devin and watch that proposal.

The least they could have done is let her get offstage if they insisted on showing that, which we knew they would show because they teased that from the outset.

 

[tinkerbell]

Devin was a cocky jerk early in the season, thought he had a special relationship with Jen.  He was all about competing, showing the other guys that she liked him best. He got so caught up in trying to WIN that he forgot that the prize was a lifetime married to Jen. He didn't want that prize, he just wanted to win the competition. 

[bosawks]

Jen was a meh choice but at the end of the day with some therapy and support I hope and believe she can find happiness and fulfillment.

The guys, however, can all kick rocks!

[thesupremediva1]

I called weeks ago that Devin was about himself and was just trying to win the show.

He monopolized Jen's time, he played victim when she wouldn't immediately give him the "ILY," he cosplayed future fiance with the family. He intentionally said all the things he knew she wanted to hear, and that the family would want to hear.

Even when he was asked why he loved Jen, the answers were all about him. 

He basically backed her into a corner to make him the "winner." Now that he got the ego boost, he's on to greener pastures. He played her and everyone else. Different guy when the cameras stopped rolling.

Marcus isn't ready for a real relationship either. Here's hoping she calls Jonathan at some point. 

Devin deserves the worst publicity. He just didn't give a damn once he wasn't on TV anymore. I can't believe her brother didn't sock him in his face after that master class in lying he put on. 

[TVMovieBuff]

This was a travesty. I couldn't watch the proposal, I turned it off when Jen said "do I have a choice?" in answer to Jesse asking if they could show it. I couldn't take any more of them deliberately humiliating Jen. 

I am so glad she is on Dancing With the Stars. It did wonders for Melissa Rycroft. Sasha is a nice partner. 

[cancon]

I think Devin might be a psychopath, his lying and kind of smarmy charm, his lack of remorse and ego are all signs.  I loved Jenn as Bachelorette and think they should let her do it again.  Let her be the first Bachelorette to get a second chance as the men she was given messed with her so much.  

I think Jenn was a great example for people who might have been in similar situations with emotionally unavailable partners to show how to rise above that and respect yourself.  We saw the transformation in real time almost and I thought it was empowering.  

Jenn was so kind and caring to do that big gesture for Devin presuming that he was being honest.  She seemed to really care about the men, was empathetic, a good listener, interested in what the men had to say and just a wonderful woman in my opinion.  She was my favorite Bachelorette of all time and I'd love to see more of her.

[debbie311]

15 hours ago, Diana Berry said:

I still think him seeing her say that she loved Marcus turned the tide with him.  But he still didn’t have to be so cold when breaking up.

other thought, there is alot more going on and Devin ( maybe just maybe is not telling the whole story)

thanks Jesse for putting this woman through the ringer.  I know he can’t say anything but yikes.

 

 

 

 

 

But didn't Devin break up with her before the season aired?  It sounded like it was like practically as soon as they got engaged he started acting different. As soon as they left Hawaii, she said.  At any rate, if that WAS the reason, he would have looked better if he had come out and said that he felt different after she was practically begging Marcus to love her.  The day before the engagement!  Now that would be pretty hard to get over.

[Ivana Tinkle]

Making Jenn watch the proposal while she sobbed in the inset shot was BRUTAL. Holy shit, this show has proven they don't care about what they inflict on those who choose to participate in their shenanigans but this was a new low. 

Fuck you, ABC. 

[Madding crowd]

I’m still really curious as to the real story here. If Devin is just seeking fame, he would have stayed with her awhile to get the GMA appearance, spread in People magazine and sit in the audience during Dancing With the Stars . Now he is just hated. I agree it was awful of ABC to put Jenn through that.

[Stats Queen]

1 hour ago, Ivana Tinkle said:

Making Jenn watch the proposal while she sobbed in the inset shot was BRUTAL. Holy shit, this show has proven they don't care about what they inflict on those who choose to participate in their shenanigans but this was a new low. 

Fuck you, ABC. 

If they had shown without her on the stage it would have been a little better.

i think it is horrible what they did.

[tennisgurl]

Fuck, even by this shows standards that was next level sleazy, I cant believe they made Jenn sit there and watch her proposal all the while cutting to her next to Devin, sobbing her eyes out. That was cruel and totally unnecessary, they couldn't even let her leave the stage? Her "do I have a choice" was heartbreaking, she certainly knew what she was getting into, putting everything on TV, but I cant imagine she pictured this. Screw the network and screw Devin. 

I always got a bad vibe off of Devin, he seems like he was more interested in winning the prize than actually being with Jenn and had a real fuckboy energy, but that was even worse than I expected. Its possible that he pulled away more when he watched her with Marcus and it felt like she was always more interested in his emotionally unavailable self, but to me it seems like he went on the show to get the perks of being part of the Nation, fame, girls, getting to go to fancy parties and clubs, and to feel like a big winner, and never really expected to actually make it to the end, and when he did, he was done with Jenn as soon as the cameras stopped rolling. 

I guess this is why Sam caught onto him so quickly, like really recognizes like. As a manipulative faker, he can smell another one a mile away. You almost feel bad for the editors, its hard to give someone a villain edit when there are so many villains, including our last two guys. Marcus basically pulled the same ILU hail mary as Sam, just Jenn was way more down to cut him slack until the very end. I feel really bad for Jenn, I don't think she was a very good or interesting choice for Bachelorette but she seems like a good person and I hope that she can take some time for herself to really figure herself out, she is clearly making the same bad choices falling for the same toxic guys, I really hope that she can figure out how to spot the good ones. 

I've been scrolling through Devin's Instagram, and its so cringe looking at his many happy go lucky "look what a nice cool dude I am" posts, especially about the show, all the while knowing what was coming. Did he really think that this would end well for him? Not only did he dump the Bachelorette, he did it over the phone! And then started going after Maia! What an asshole.

[Starlight925]

What a sociopath.

Love bombed the shit out of her, then turned it off so cold in such an instant.

His constant smirking while he kept monopolizing her time always rubbed me the wrong way.

And all his thoughts about why he loved her so much were about him.  About how she made him feel.

I was married to someone like this.  All over me, couldn't get enough, and then one day, without so much as a raised voice, became ice cold and then....done.  Turned out, he was cheating, which I suspect of Devin.  I suspect he was doing a lot more than just following people.

Classic Narcissist moves:  Idealize (Love-bomb), Devalue, Replace, Discard.

[Jeanne222]

Maria?  Lordy. 
 

So I was busy and couldn’t watch live but thought it was recorded. 
 

Turned it on to find that Disney and my provider no longer have a contract so it wasn’t recorded at all!!!

Had to go over to YouTube for bits and pieces. 
 

It’s been a bad year for me!

[Hip-to-be-Square]

    Devin is a future-faker fuck boy 😖! I hope his metabolism slows down big time and his business tanks. He's a liar and a sweet talker. All of the guys this season were dishing out insincere rom-com lines to Jen- a bunch of smooth talkers in cheap suits and good lighting. I hope that Jen NEVER proposes to a man again- she deserves a proposal.  A greasy jerk-off like Devin doesn't deserve a proposal.

    ABC hit a new low by making Jen watch her own proposal while filming her sob uncontrollably. I'll still watch The Golden Bachelorette though! Bring on the Silver Foxes! 😉 I bet there will be fuck boys on Joan's season too- these men married before the advent of dating apps/ the internet, but it doesn't mean that they can't be corrupted by Tinder! 

Edited September 5 by Hip-to-be-Square

[Stats Queen]

1 minute ago, Hip-to-be-Square said:

    Devin is a future-faker fuck boy 😖! I hope his metabolism slows down big time and his business tanks. He's a liar and a sweet talker. All of the guys this season were dishing out insincere rom-com lines to Jen- a bunch of smooth talkers in cheap suits and good lighting. I hope that Jen NEVER proposes to a man again- she deserves a proposal.  A greasy jerk-off like Devin doesn't deserve a proposal.

    ABC hit a new low by making Jen watch her own proposal while filming her sob uncontrollably. I'll still watch The Golden Bachelorette though! Bring on the Silver Foxes! 😉 I bet there will be fuck boys on Joan's season too- these men married before the advent of dating apps/ the internet, but it doesn't mean that they can't be corrupted by Tinder! 

I though Jeremy was a great guy but he’s been partying with Devin and that seems to make him happy.

[leocadia]

Devin showed exactly how much of an asshat he is.  Once the cameras were gone, so was he. Personally, I don't think that Jenn is ready for an engagement, but it was really shitty of him to leave her hanging like that.  May he travel to BIP and have a karma poop baby require him to be medevac'd out.

My favorite part of the episode though was the scene of Jenn applying concealer to her already completely made up face.  Much like the food on the dates, absolutely unnecessary.

[Hip-to-be-Square]

1 hour ago, Stats Queen said:

I though Jeremy was a great guy but he’s been partying with Devin and that seems to make him happy.

Devin strikes me as the type to rope people into his player charades. I bet he paid for Jeremy's drinks and club entry fee.  I wonder how all of these guys will act 20 years from now? Will they still be party boys or players? 🤔

[JenE4]

Jonathan is here for Jenn because he heard how it ends. Hmm. The ol’ Jason/Arie switcheroo??

Damn, Jenn’s family is tough. Did they know the premise of the television show she was going on for the second time?!?  Brother is not cracking a smile in this picture-in-picture.  James claims he’s going into this with an open mind with Marcus, but it sure didn’t seem like he had an open mind with Devin. James is acting like he intends on determining whom Jenn should get engaged to, if anyone. Now I know why we see that preview of, “I can’t let you propose.” The next clip will be “because my brother said no.” Marcus was abandoned at a daycare center by his parents. Of course he’s not going to trust giving his heart to someone he’s known for a month or two (who has also been dating his buddies). Alright! The brother cracked! He does have a heart! He’s right that Marcus is not emotionally available (to her anyway), but that should only make him more pro-Devin, but he was just as tough on Devin, even though he was effusive about how much he loves Jenn.

Wait, Marcus should be getting this spiritual cleansing date, as his past is holding him back more than Devin’s. Though, dwelling on this is bringing up all of Devin’s doubts again. Oh, yeah, it was only just last week that Devin almost left because he questioned Jenn’s feelings for him. This is just a mess all around. No wonder why friends and family in the audience are all somber and there to support their devastated friends. “I want her to feel the weight of my soul.” Is that a good thing?? Doesn’t sound like it.

i don’t even understand why Jenn is conflicted. If you and Devin are so in love, shouldn’t the fact that Marcus doesn’t love you make your decision here easier? Why is there even any angst? The fact that she’s still trying to pin down Marcus seems to indicate she doesn’t actually love Devin. Marcus told you he loves you under duress. He wants to “give it a try.” This isn’t exactly an overwhelming declaration of love. Okay, I was giving brother James a hard time, but he was right to question Jenn’s relationship choices. She just needs another 5 or so years to mature. I don’t think her pre-frontal cortex is fully developed yet. Well, look at this growth already, walking away from Marcus.

So Jenn admits she already knew what she had with Devin was special, running toward her feelings with Devin and away from Marcus, etc, and yet you still needled an “I love you” from Marcus knowing you were going to leave him anyway? That just seems cruel and unnecessary, knowing how difficult it was for Marcus to express his feelings in the first place.

Neil Lane sitting in the audience with Joan. I could go for that twist ending, Joan ditching whichever widower for Neil Lane when he shows up with the rings.

Sounds like Jenn taking the reins means that she wants to propose. She does! What transpired?! Oh, they must have broken up since then. She’s crying?! What a roller coaster! Did he say no?! What happened?! Couples break up all the time by the time of ATFR and we still see the proposal. Hell, they film the break-up of they can! Devin wasn’t genuine? Were San and Thomas right about him all along? Pass the pitchforks out to the audience members over the commercial break.

Devin had a glow up! Did he get on Ozempic? He’s ready for 15 minutes of fame with bachelor nation. Following Maria?!? And SAM was the one who allegedly wished the lead were Maria. But did he “slide into Maria’s DMs”?! Jeremy’s like don’t bring me into this. Jenn’s really been stalking his Instagram. In the words of Heather RHSLC, she’s got receipts, timeline, proof, f’ing everything.

Devin is giving the exact same speech Marcus just did about not being able to live up to her expectations! Either he’s repeating the last thing he’s heard, or maybe she does have unrealistic expectations—especially in relation to all of their stunted emotions and abandonment issues. But regardless of all that, it sounds like he “changed” very quickly, so all that BS he was spewing to win the show (not her heart) wasn’t genuine. It doesn’t sound like they even had any big fights or disagreements (other than that stuff she disapproved about on his social media, which seemed to be after the fact), but he just sort of ghosted her or at the very least didn’t maintain the level of contact that she wanted.

Edited September 5 by JenE4

[Alexander Pope]

I completely agree with what everyone has already said about Devin, whom I have never trusted and always thought was a narcissist and a phony.  I just want to single out one detail from last night--JEREMY'S SMIRK when Jenn mentioned Devin's clubbing with him in NYC.  That made my blood run cold.  The whole thing was a big joke to him.  Poor Jenn.

 

And I have to add, in all honesty, this season has been such a disaster that a part of me did want to laugh.  But Jenn was treated so terribly as the reunion went on that I thought better of it.

Edited September 5 by Alexander Pope
remorse

[debbie311]

This Bachelorette season and The Golden Bachelor, which also ended in disaster, should be an indication to any intelligent person that this show is a joke now. This idea of dating 24 people and you are going to be engaged after what, one month is insane.  Trying to decide the day before a proposal which one you will choose is crazy! It makes it seem like marriage is no big deal, hey if it doesn't work, we can just get divorced. But I guess it they made it more reasonable, at the end you decide to pursue a relationship with "the one" to see if you are really compatible and ready for the commitment, that would be a boring show.

It's sure not like the early seasons.  Jenn was making out with multiple guys on like first meetings, in the past they didn't even kiss at first!  And telling more than one person you love them after spending very little time with them, oh that sounds really healthy and together.

I wish they would choose a Bachelor/Bachelorette who is not so damaged by whatever happened in their past.  The fun of the show is eclipsed by their sad stories, getting dumped multiple times, parents abandoning you, etc.

One guy left before the final rose because he decided he wasn't ready. One guy just couldn't bring himself to love her. The other dumped her practically as soon as they stopped filming the season. Poor Jenn, this show has probably damaged her more than she was before.  Hope she gets the help she needs.

Devin is a player. Marcus is so fragile that you wonder why he even signed up for the show! I wonder if Jenn thought about the guys she sent home and wondered if she made a mistake. 

 

[Jeanne222]

Jen doesn't think she makes mistakes because she repeats with the same kind of guy over and over again.

I will say I don't think this show is reality anymore.  Seems like its just a play with actors reading scripts.

Jen couldn't get but one tear flowing after all that!

I think it's all a bunch of nothing except getting everyone talking and opinionated and ready for The Golden bachelorette!

[call me ishmael]

Even for them this season was a new low.  Jenn seems like a very nice person but there was almost no chemistry between her and any of the guys (I know she and Sam wanted to sleep together but that was because they had nothing to say).  So we had to listen to another faux empowerment narrative that then was topped off with Jesse and the producers making her miserable on national TV while Devin sat there looking like a 1930s bowery boy waiting for his appointment with the judge.  

And I'm sorry but Jesse doesn't get to sit there pretending to be mister empath and then making her watch the proposal while claiming it's because it shows how she took control of the situation.  Nope.  It's because the show decided that they were going to torture her (they could have shown it before either of them came out if they were going to show it at all).  And then having forced her and her family to watch it live it was all laughs to Joan and the Golden Bachelorette!  Jenn who???

Either they have to figure out how to make this show understanding that the contestants are all very media wise and using it to promote their brand or it is going to just be disaster after disaster.  They lucked out and got a unicorn with Joey.  The odds of that happening again are lower than Ari and Becca getting back together (just to fondly remember when pre-finale breakups were still a surprise).

 

[ljenkins782]

7 hours ago, debbie311 said:

This Bachelorette season and The Golden Bachelor, which also ended in disaster, should be an indication to any intelligent person that this show is a joke now. This idea of dating 24 people and you are going to be engaged after what, one month is insane.  Trying to decide the day before a proposal which one you will choose is crazy! It makes it seem like marriage is no big deal, hey if it doesn't work, we can just get divorced. But I guess it they made it more reasonable, at the end you decide to pursue a relationship with "the one" to see if you are really compatible and ready for the commitment, that would be a boring show.

It's sure not like the early seasons.  Jenn was making out with multiple guys on like first meetings, in the past they didn't even kiss at first!  And telling more than one person you love them after spending very little time with them, oh that sounds really healthy and together.

I wish they would choose a Bachelor/Bachelorette who is not so damaged by whatever happened in their past.  The fun of the show is eclipsed by their sad stories, getting dumped multiple times, parents abandoning you, etc.

One guy left before the final rose because he decided he wasn't ready. One guy just couldn't bring himself to love her. The other dumped her practically as soon as they stopped filming the season. Poor Jenn, this show has probably damaged her more than she was before.  Hope she gets the help she needs.

Devin is a player. Marcus is so fragile that you wonder why he even signed up for the show! I wonder if Jenn thought about the guys she sent home and wondered if she made a mistake. 

 

Besides being damaged, Jenn just seems too immature to even be talking about engagements, let alone with a guy she knew for 2 months. She's very child-like in a lot of ways, like trying to get her mom on board with the idea of her marrying Devin just because he says he wants the kids to learn Vietnamese, like as if that was going to sway her. 

And the "I'm going to be engaged" (despite not knowing who the person she might be engaged to would be yet) just sounded like some kind of Instagram milestone, not like a genuine step in life. 

Much as this show is stupid and the premise is silly, if the lead has some level of maturity, it can come across as genuine. But when you have the Hannah Browns or the Jenns, it just looks like a very young girl playing pretend. Charity wasn't much older than those 2, but had an entirely different vibe and it made the show seem less silly. 

[Mswldflwr]

Haven't watched yet, but Devan's whole season felt like an audition for other reality shows -- not necessarily The Bachelor.  

This confict THE DAY BEFORE engaement of not knowing which one, just gross and come on.  And she could have the most feelings for one particular person but if he hasn't said it yet, he's not the one.  They all play that game.  Even the contestants are onto that game and know they have to say it to stick around than for any other reason.  By the time all is said and done, they've had what, two/three one-on-one dates and, of course, they are "dream" dates not going to be had in real life.  I'd be suspect if anyone did say it that fast.  

And for the love for all that is holy, can we PLEASE get rid of the dinner table dates, the contestants all lined up on balcony/bridge/mountainside yelling *bachelor name here* and bachelor handshake if at all possible.  And Jesse, I love you, man, but you don't really need to tell us it's the final rose tonight.  We get how it works.  

 

 

 

 

[b2H]

I have said for a while that the entire franchise is dead.  The show management is not savvy in choosing the leads or the contestants.  It has gotten progressively worse over the last ten years and, as someone mentioned above, the season and the Golden Bachelor were embarrassments on every level.

The concept needs to be completely overhauled to survive.

[LuvMyShows]

4 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

And the "I'm going to be engaged" (despite not knowing who the person she might be engaged to would be yet) just sounded like some kind of Instagram milestone, not like a genuine step in life. 

I always felt that her saying she wanted a "ferocious love" was very Instagram-ish, and I always wondered what she actually thought that would be. When you talk about a love in terms of "ferocious", it's going to have very powerful highs, and also lows, with lots and lots and lots of emotional intensity, as well as drama. That has an immature sound to it, at least to me.

On 9/4/2024 at 9:47 PM, JenE4 said:

So Jenn admits she already knew what she had with Devin was special, running toward her feelings with Devin and away from Marcus, etc, and yet you still needled an “I love you” from Marcus knowing you were going to leave him anyway? That just seems cruel and unnecessary, knowing how difficult it was for Marcus to express his feelings in the first place.

THIS!!!!!!!! While I felt bad about her having to watch the proposal footage with Devin sitting right beside her, I can't help but feel that maybe it's karma for apparently not giving two sh*ts about Marcus' feelings or his struggle. She was mad at Devin for having known how he felt but not having told her for at least several weeks. Hmmm. Isn't that f'ing exactly what she did to Marcus?  But at least Devin eventually told her on his own. She never told Marcus, until IIRC, Jesse asked her at ATFR whether it would have made a difference if Marcus had told her ILY earlier. Meanwhile, Marcus had gone months basically living under a completely false narrative, one that was cruelly "what-if" and self-flagellating in nature.  

[TVMovieBuff]

I was thinking, this was similar to Hannah Brown's outcome, with Jed having a girlfriend back home and doing the show to boost his music ambitions. 

The difference is, when Hannah found out, she got mad, Jenn became hurt. They have to pick tougher leads. They have a counselor, there should be more vetting the leads in case something emotionally terrible happens, like to Jen. 

They can do better background checks into the contestants. too. But sociopaths like Devin are good at fooling everyone. 

[JenE4]

43 minutes ago, TVMovieBuff said:

I was thinking, this was similar to Hannah Brown's outcome, with Jed having a girlfriend back home and doing the show to boost his music ambitions. 

The difference is, when Hannah found out, she got mad, Jenn became hurt. They have to pick tougher leads. They have a counselor, there should be more vetting the leads in case something emotionally terrible happens, like to Jen. 

They can do better background checks into the contestants. too. But sociopaths like Devin are good at fooling everyone. 

I think “sociopath” might be going too far here. Though, I’m about to also chime in with some untrained, armchair diagnoses, lol. What Jen—and all of her favorite men—have in common is your basic childhood abandonment daddy issues. It’s fairly common to try to seek out similar relationships and try to “fix” the dynamic by getting the love out of this damaged person that you didn’t have to heal your inner child. Then at some point you recognize the unhealthy dynamic, maybe get some therapy and/or figure out where it’s stemming from in your childhood, and break that pattern and seek out healthier relationships. The thing is, Jenn is juuuust in the midst of the process. She totally sees her patterns with emotionally unavailable men and even understands it stems from her father leaving. Yet even with given the option of 25 men, she chose every single emotionally damaged man as her favorites—Devin, Marcus, Jonathan, and Sam! She had other amazing guys like my favorite, Dylan, the hot medical student, but she zeroed in and connected only with the guys who were also abandoned by their fathers and were just as traumatized by it as she was. Emotional damage seemed to be the only pre-requisite on her checklist. I think Devin was the most like her in terms of wanting to make a love connection and have the family dynamic they didn’t have growing up, as opposed to Marcus who was just terrified to give his trust to anyone. But Devin was just as honest with her all along that he ruins a good thing and he’s not feeling loved and he wants to leave, etc. They gave this man not one, but two spiritual healing (formerly known as the love guru) dates—and in both made it very clear he had a lot of  trauma that he wanted to get past, just like Jen, worried that he wouldn’t. I mean, I guess throwing a rock into the ocean wasn’t exactly the cure-all he needed? There’s a very real reason why Jen felt like SHE needed to propose to HIM. She knew he felt like their connection was very fragile. Despite how much he seemed to want to love her, he also always had one foot out the door. It’s not really a surprise to me that once they got outside the bubble of the competition and travel and producers’ influence, that the same doubts Devin expressed all along came out. Likewise, Jenn has all of her issues, so once they actually had to get to know each other in the real world, I can see the incompatibility becoming apparent. I thought it was kind of telling that Jenn’s big issues with Devin are based on what she saw on social media AFTER they broke up. So he went to a club with a male friend from the show (didn’t even say he was trying to hook up with women or anything) and he followed the public profile of another bachelor family member (which they all do, and he didn’t “slide into her DMs” or anything). To me, this seemed like more of a red flag about Jenn than it did about Devin. If she was this angry and accusatory about normal behavior after they broke up, how controlling and jealous was she while they were together? Frankly, Jen could have picked any of her favorites—Devin, Marcus, Jonathan, or Sam and it would have ended up this exact same way. Therefore, I have a hard time trying to paint Devin as some type of monster. These are just some real emotionally damaged people (Jen included) that hopefully seeing this play out on TV will be that “relationship rock bottom” to get them all some therapy and likely their next relationships after they do some work on themselves will be healthy and fulfilling. 

[Alexander Pope]

JenE4, that was a really rich and illuminating post and you have given me a lot to think about. I do think though that Jonathon was a much nicer guy than Devin or Sam, and less traumatized than Marcus.  I think they might have had a shot--but he didn't give her enough of the "ferocity," i.e. pain/longing (thank you, LuvMyShows) she was jonesing for.  I also think her constant insistence on "fighting for love" was a red flag--why does love have to be a constant war?  

[DEL901]

9 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

I think “sociopath” might be going too far here. Though, I’m about to also chime in with some untrained, armchair diagnoses, lol. What Jen—and all of her favorite men—have in common is your basic childhood abandonment daddy issues. It’s fairly common to try to seek out similar relationships and try to “fix” the dynamic by getting the love out of this damaged person that you didn’t have to heal your inner child. Then at some point you recognize the unhealthy dynamic, maybe get some therapy and/or figure out where it’s stemming from in your childhood, and break that pattern and seek out healthier relationships. The thing is, Jenn is juuuust in the midst of the process. She totally sees her patterns with emotionally unavailable men and even understands it stems from her father leaving. Yet even with given the option of 25 men, she chose every single emotionally damaged man as her favorites—Devin, Marcus, Jonathan, and Sam! She had other amazing guys like my favorite, Dylan, the hot medical student, but she zeroed in and connected only with the guys who were also abandoned by their fathers and were just as traumatized by it as she was. Emotional damage seemed to be the only pre-requisite on her checklist. I think Devin was the most like her in terms of wanting to make a love connection and have the family dynamic they didn’t have growing up, as opposed to Marcus who was just terrified to give his trust to anyone. But Devin was just as honest with her all along that he ruins a good thing and he’s not feeling loved and he wants to leave, etc. They gave this man not one, but two spiritual healing (formerly known as the love guru) dates—and in both made it very clear he had a lot of  trauma that he wanted to get past, just like Jen, worried that he wouldn’t. I mean, I guess throwing a rock into the ocean wasn’t exactly the cure-all he needed? There’s a very real reason why Jen felt like SHE needed to propose to HIM. She knew he felt like their connection was very fragile. Despite how much he seemed to want to love her, he also always had one foot out the door. It’s not really a surprise to me that once they got outside the bubble of the competition and travel and producers’ influence, that the same doubts Devin expressed all along came out. Likewise, Jenn has all of her issues, so once they actually had to get to know each other in the real world, I can see the incompatibility becoming apparent. I thought it was kind of telling that Jenn’s big issues with Devin are based on what she saw on social media AFTER they broke up. So he went to a club with a male friend from the show (didn’t even say he was trying to hook up with women or anything) and he followed the public profile of another bachelor family member (which they all do, and he didn’t “slide into her DMs” or anything). To me, this seemed like more of a red flag about Jenn than it did about Devin. If she was this angry and accusatory about normal behavior after they broke up, how controlling and jealous was she while they were together? Frankly, Jen could have picked any of her favorites—Devin, Marcus, Jonathan, or Sam and it would have ended up this exact same way. Therefore, I have a hard time trying to paint Devin as some type of monster. These are just some real emotionally damaged people (Jen included) that hopefully seeing this play out on TV will be that “relationship rock bottom” to get them all some therapy and likely their next relationships after they do some work on themselves will be healthy and fulfilling. 

Great analysis.  I think Devin’s first big freak out when her ex might come back was a big red flag that he doesn’t fight for love.  He runs.  Then there was when he went to her hotel room, no doubt egged on by producers because he was panicking again and ready to leave….he wanted/needed to be the dumper rather than the dumpee…. And the timeline of his pulling away coincided with him watching the show and seeing not just her connection with Marcus, but Sam.    They were both above him in her list of preferences.  I am sure he felt like second choice again   It doesn’t excuse his behaviour, but I think unresolved feelings of abandonment explains a lot.  

Edited September 6 by DEL901

[JenE4]

8 minutes ago, Alexander Pope said:

JenE4, that was a really rich and illuminating post and you have given me a lot to think about. I do think though that Jonathon was a much nicer guy than Devin or Sam, and less traumatized than Marcus.  I think they might have had a shot--but he didn't give her enough of the "ferocity," i.e. pain/longing (thank you, LuvMyShows) she was jonesing for.  I also think her constant insistence on "fighting for love" was a red flag--why does love have to be a constant war?  

 

6 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

Great analysis.  I think Devin’s first big freak out when her ex might come back was a big red flag that he doesn’t fight for love.  He runs.  Then there was when he went to her hotel room, no doubt egged on by producers because he was panicking again and ready to leave….he wanted/needed to be the dumper rather than the dumpee…. And the timeline of his pulling away coincided with him watching the show and seeing not just her connection with Marcus, but Sam.    They were both above him in her list of preferences.  I am sure he felt like second choice again   It doesn’t excuse his behaviour, but I think unresolved feelings of abandonment explains a lot.  

Yes, you’re both spot on with that “ferocious love” implying that she apparently likes/wants the tumult of “fighting for the relationship” (aka drama and conflict). Jenn is seemingly “fight” and Devin is “flight.” I’m also a “flight” person when it comes to fighting, despite having a solid marriage, so I can understand why he ran from the “ferocity” of her love. Doesn’t mean either one of them is the villain of their relationship. (And I’m kind of surprised that the media has turned so harshly on Devin, since it’s not exactly uncommon for the couple to already be broken up by this point—and most relationships do end.) Their relationship issues are just not compatible with each other and both will likely grow into healthier relationship dynamics in time. 

[LuvMyShows]

1 hour ago, DEL901 said:

I think Devin’s first big freak out when her ex might come back was a big red flag that he doesn’t fight for love.  He runs.  

At the time the ex came back, and we saw Devin say that if the guy stays, he will leave, I thought to myself, "I wonder what Jen will think of that if she chooses Devin?" Then after she picked Devin, I wondered if she watched her season (some contestants don't, although it's usually the non-lead one that doesn't want to watch), because it very much showed how non-committed he was, at a time when verbally, he was still acting all-in. I would have been curious to know what she thought when she watched that and whether they discussed it, and also what she thinks of it now with hindsight.

[ljenkins782]

On 9/5/2024 at 5:30 PM, call me ishmael said:

And I'm sorry but Jesse doesn't get to sit there pretending to be mister empath and then making her watch the proposal while claiming it's because it shows how she took control of the situation.  Nope.  It's because the show decided that they were going to torture her (they could have shown it before either of them came out if they were going to show it at all).  And then having forced her and her family to watch it live it was all laughs to Joan and the Golden Bachelorette!  Jenn who???

WOW, I hadn't actually watched the episode yet when I first commented, so I didn't realize exactly how terribly the show had staged this whole thing. The decision to wait and show the proposal AFTER revealing how everything had gone sideways AND after bringing Devin out and letting them fight it out for a little bit. That was absolutely tacky and designed for maximum hurt and humiliation.

Much as I don't actually believe Jenn was in love with Devin or vice versa, her current issue is the way Devin pulled the rug out without a conversation, so she's already got to be replaying the whole thing in her head, showing it to her was rubbing salt in that fresh wound. 

I'm sure that once Jenn gets a little distance and a little maturity, she'll look back at this and wonder if she ever really had genuine feelings for him or if she was just caught up in the show and all it entails plus the way Devin pulled a full court press on her in order to win (spoiler alert: it was 100% the latter). But she clearly doesn't have that distance or perspective yet, so that really sucked to do that to her.

 She also didn't have the maturity not to spit venom at him over such trivialities as him following Maria on social media. I can totally understand why that would set her off, since she's already feeling insecure over not being the 1st or 2nd choice for the lead and Maria was ahead of her there. But it's not something that translates in front of other people, it made her sound like a jealous 16 year old. 

I actually don't think Devin handled himself terribly, but nobody wants to hear that "you deserve better than me" line, that's right up there with "it's not you, it's me" in the relationship cliches hall of fame. It's clear that they weren't going to last, he just hastened the ending a bit once he was out of the house and no longer constrained to pursuing just one person. 

[Kerri Johnson]

On 9/4/2024 at 6:26 PM, Stats Queen said:

I though Jeremy was a great guy but he’s been partying with Devin and that seems to make him happy.

Jeremy fooled me as well until he was caught saying the N word in a tweet and he's currently supporting Marcus.

He's garbage just like the rest of Jen's men.