S06.E08: Ritz

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

After a series of strokes, a declining Margaret recalls a wild night with her sister at the Ritz in 1945, and later celebrates her 70th birthday there.

Dropping Thursday, December 14, 2023.

[Straycat80]

Margaret had a charmed life and a sad life but in the end she was a loving sister. RIP Margaret. 

[Demian]

This is probably the best episode of the season.  Lesley Manville is magnificent.

[Snazzy Daisy]

“Bye you…” 😢

Margaret’s episodes never disappoint. This is the strongest one of S06. The bathroom scene is painful to watch, triggering for some.

It’s 1945. Was the handsome black GI really welcomed to the Ritz and The Pink Sink? No restricted entry to local pubs and social facilities due to segregation etc?

The look of disgust on her face when she’s served nicotine gum on a tray. It’s priceless!

[Roseanna]

How many episodes this show has given to Margaret? After Roddy, I have seen no need for it, especially as we have seen so little of Anne.

This episode showed the final stage of Margaret's self-destruction but it was equal to me.

The only important theme - that the person who really was the closest to Elizabeth wasn't Philip but her younger sister who knew her from their childhood that had been different from anybody else's - could have been presented with less space.    

Edited December 15, 2023 by Roseanna
adding a letter

[Mrsmaul2021]

My favorite episode this season. 

[PurpleTentacle]

Considering how much of a hubbub they made around it, you would have thought Elisabeth had fucked a black guy or something (not that I would have a problem with it, but you know it would have been extra scandalous). But of course it was just some dancing and maybe a snog that wasn't even shown on screen. *yawn* This show has the balls of a Gorilla (very, very tiny).

This was a sweet goodbye to Margaret. I shall miss her mischievous personality.

Edited December 15, 2023 by PurpleTentacle

[ombelico]

The actress they got to play Young Princess Elizabeth has such a striking resemblance to Claire Foy I kept being taken aback and thinking it was her. Amazing casting.

Lesley Manville was exceptional here. I have absolutely no problem with Margaret getting her own episode particularly since she's been central to the show since season 1, and truly was the only person besides the Queen Mother who was with Elizabeth through everything.

[peridot]

I had my hand to my mouth during Margaret's strokes.  They were very hard to watch.  I hated that her friend had the music up loud when Margaret just had a stroke a while back.  It was shocking to see her burned feet.

V-E Day seemed like a such a wonderful time.  I can't even imagine the relief that everyone felt.  While they were at the club, were there drag queens dancing?  It went by so quickly, that I wasn't sure. 

When Elizabeth was snapping at Philip, I wonder if she was regretting marrying Philip instead of Porchey. 

This was a very good, emotional episode.

[OlderThanDirt]

2 hours ago, peridot said:

I had my hand to my mouth during Margaret's strokes.  They were very hard to watch.  I hated that her friend had the music up loud when Margaret just had a stroke a while back.  It was shocking to see her burned feet.

V-E Day seemed like a such a wonderful time.  I can't even imagine the relief that everyone felt.  While they were at the club, were there drag queens dancing?  It went by so quickly, that I wasn't sure. 

When Elizabeth was snapping at Philip, I wonder if she was regretting marrying Philip instead of Porchey. 

This was a very good, emotional episode.

The aria was Sempre Libera from La Traviata and it means always free, which Margaret never was but neither was the character singing. After the first stroke there should have been someone always nearby. Could she really walk on those feet?

The last scene with her was perfect but the Mall wouldn't have been empty. Didn't people celebrate all night? And the American Army was segregated until Truman ordered it desegregated after the war. 

I think if not for the Abdication, Elizabeth would have married Porchy or someone like him and happily raised horses and dogs. But when her role changed,  Philip became a better match.  But at this age, one does look back and muse about other roads not taken.

Edited December 15, 2023 by OlderThanDirt

[Roseanna]

4 minutes ago, OlderThanDirt said:

I think if not for the Abdication, Elizabeth would have married Porchy or someone like him and happily raised horses and dogs. But when her role changed,  Philip became a better match.  But at this age, one does look back and muse about other roads not taken.

Actually, as was shown in the first episode of the season, Philip was a very poor match by all: he was born a foreigner, had nothing but his meagre salary in the navy, and was rumored to be a ladies' man.

But Elizabeth fell in love with Philip when she was 13 years old and she never loved anyone else. 

[OlderThanDirt]

1 minute ago, Roseanna said:

Actually, as was shown in the first episode of the season, Philip was a very poor match by all: he was born a foreigner, had nothing but his meagre salary in the navy, and was rumored to be a ladies' man.

But Elizabeth fell in love with Philip when she was 13 years old and she never loved anyone else. 

But he was sponsored and promoted by his Uncle Louis Mountbatten. 

[Helena Dax]

Best episode of the season. It made me cry a little. Also, I loved the references to P.G. Wodehouse, he's one of my favourite writers.

At some points I wondered if the actress playing young Elizabeth was Claire Foy de-aged through CGI!

[dubbel zout]

29 minutes ago, Helena Dax said:

At some points I wondered if the actress playing young Elizabeth was Claire Foy de-aged through CGI!

Same. That casting was uncanny.

[txhorns79]

9 hours ago, peridot said:

When Elizabeth was snapping at Philip, I wonder if she was regretting marrying Philip instead of Porchey. 

I think the show explored that in one of the earlier seasons and the answer was "no." 

I thought Lesley Manville was wonderful in the episode, and that last scene at the gate where she tells Elizabeth she can't go with her, but would always be a part of her was just lovely.  I was a little underwhelmed with the flashback.  The way the Queen was acting about it, you'd think Margaret had walked in on her directing a gangbang on the dance floor, instead of just *gasp* dancing with a man.      

[SeanC]

21 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

It’s 1945. Was the handsome black GI really welcomed to the Ritz and The Pink Sink? No restricted entry to local pubs and social facilities due to segregation etc?

There was no legal segregation in England, though of course quite a few gathering places were informally segregated since most countries also did not have non-discrimination laws for public gatherings.

This was also a source of tension whenever American troops went abroad to Canada or much of Europe in this time because many white American soldiers expected segregated bars, movie theatres, etc. and attempted to impose those norms on the locals (or black soldiers serving in other Allies' armed forces). 

There was a very famous court case during the war years where a black cricketer from Trinidad successfully sued a London hotel for refusing him accommodations.

Edited December 16, 2023 by SeanC

[Spartan Girl]

Echoing that this was the best episode of the season. Either you love Margaret or you don’t. I’m split down the middle, but the stroke scenes were awful to watch. And while I can understand why Margaret would rather die doing what she lived instead of outliving everyone close to her, I still couldn’t help shaking my head at her blatant refusal to stop smoking, drinking and partying.

All that said, seeing her a shadow of her bon vivant self was just so sad. My grandma was a glamorpuss too, and then when she had her stroke it was like she was a whole different person until the day she died.

I did love the flashback of the princesses having their V-E Roman Holiday at the Pink Slip. Kudos to the show for casting of young Lilibet, Margaret, Peter, and Porchy—they really did look like teen versions of Claire and Vanessa.

I have to ask: where were Margaret’s kids in all this? You’d think they never existed.

[shipmate]

Give Leslie Manville all the awards for this episode!

[Avaleigh]

I loved this episode. Some of the most humorous moments for me on this show have involved Margaret, so I've developed a bit of a soft spot for her over the years. I'm definitely glad the show made the choice to give her a farewell episode. It feels like the right decision.

I've really enjoyed watching the Margaret character evolve over the seasons. Each actress left their stamp on the character and each one brought life, humor and sympathy to this flawed, but somehow still surprisingly loveable character. 

Lesley Manville is an incredible actress and just a treat to watch in every role I've seen her in. I remember being excited when I learned that she'd been cast as Margaret and she did not disappoint. Please give her some Emmy love, voters!

As for the episode itself, the tub scene just hurt my heart. Also, seeing Elizabeth watch the rapid deterioration of her little sister, who suddenly seems more of an age with their hundred year old mother, was heartbreaking to watch. Her slurred speech and her realization that even walking again wasn't necessarily a guarantee gave me all the feels.

4 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I have to ask: where were Margaret’s kids in all this? You’d think they never existed.

If I have a criticism of the episode it's this. They wanted to emphasize her loneliness, but Margaret did have her children and there was more staff than was portrayed here.

Edited December 16, 2023 by Avaleigh

[Johnny Dollar]

I’ve loved every episode that’s featured Margaret. Particularly this episode in this season, which has so far been a real snooze fest. 

[dubbel zout]

4 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

who suddenly seems more of an age with their hundred year old mother

I hated the lunch scenes where the Queen Mother rather rudely asked what Margaret was saying. Did she (the QM) not understand what a stroke could do? I found her reactions OOC, to be honest.

[jschoolgirl]

3 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

lunch scenes where the Queen Mother

I am sure she is a fine actress, but she is wrong, wrong, wrong for this part.

[CeeBeeGee]

On 12/15/2023 at 9:36 AM, ombelico said:

The actress they got to play Young Princess Elizabeth has such a striking resemblance to Claire Foy I kept being taken aback and thinking it was her. Amazing casting.

After the episode, I looked up her name because I was sure she was some young relation to Foy.

This episode was devastating to me. The idea of the long goodbye to your constant, lifelong companion just--brings up all the feels. And watching her become sicker and more debilitated. And the bathtub scene--I had to put up my hands, I felt so terrible for her. When it switched from young Margaret to Leslie Manville telling her "I will always be by your side" I burst into tears.

Great, great episode. The flashback was so much fun as well.

[Sailorgirl26]

On 12/15/2023 at 7:08 PM, Helena Dax said:

Best episode of the season. It made me cry a little. Also, I loved the references to P.G. Wodehouse, he's one of my favourite writers.

At some points I wondered if the actress playing young Elizabeth was Claire Foy de-aged through CGI!

Me as well.

I haven't felt like any of this cast (other than Elizabeth Debecki) have deserved Emmy nods, but damn, Lesley Manville deserves to win an Emmy for this episode.

[secnarf]

So far this episode was my favourite of the series. I loved the flashbacks especially, and I couldn't believe that the actress playing young Elizabeth was not a de-aged Claire Foy. I did see on IMDb that the actress playing young Margaret is the same as from Season 1.

[Constant Viewer]

45 minutes ago, secnarf said:

So far this episode was my favourite of the series. I loved the flashbacks especially, and I couldn't believe that the actress playing young Elizabeth was not a de-aged Claire Foy. I did see on IMDb that the actress playing young Margaret is the same as from Season 1.

I thought it might be same the actress for young Margaret, she looked so similar.

[Marley]

So far my fave episode of season 6 too. I loved the relationship of the Queen and Margaret so it made me cry.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Marley

[MJ Frog]

On 12/15/2023 at 7:08 PM, Helena Dax said:

At some points I wondered if the actress playing young Elizabeth was Claire Foy de-aged through CGI!

And Beau Gadson as young Margaret had quite a resemblance to Vanessa Kirby. Outstanding casting.

[sistermagpie]

On 12/14/2023 at 11:36 PM, Demian said:

This is probably the best episode of the season.  Lesley Manville is magnificent.

Agreed. The thing with Margaret for me is even when I've been frustrated with her in the past, she's been there for so long that I can really feel the loss of her for Elizabeth. (And those scenes where she was always in a situation where she was just too far away to get help were so anxiety producing!)

On one hand, I agree with everyone that they made it seem like Elizabeth had done something really shocking that night at the Ritz, but in the end, that's kind of what makes it special. She was so straight-laced that just sneaking into a party, cutting a rug and kissing a guy totally stood out in her life. Had she really gone crazy she'd have been ashamed of it. Instead it was more about Margaret seeing her happy and goofy. 

Felt the loss of Porchy too. Not because I think she was ever in love with him or really wished she had been, but just like Margaret said, he was another long-time figure in her life who knew the real her and was gone. 

After watching the ridiculous "courtship" of William and Kate, I couldn't help but be moved by some real, earned emotion!

Edited December 19, 2023 by sistermagpie

[Roseanna]

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

just like Margaret said, he was another long-time figure in her life who knew the real her and was gone. 

All persons are different with other people and in different situations. I don't think that only a private self (or rather one of the private selves) is real. That would mean that a person's work didn't matter, nor its influence.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 12/16/2023 at 10:33 AM, Spartan Girl said:

Kudos to the show for casting of young Lilibet, Margaret, Peter, and Porchy—they really did look like teen versions of Claire and Vanessa.

On 12/16/2023 at 11:27 PM, secnarf said:

So far this episode was my favourite of the series. I loved the flashbacks especially, and I couldn't believe that the actress playing young Elizabeth was not a de-aged Claire Foy. I did see on IMDb that the actress playing young Margaret is the same as from Season 1.

https://decider.com/2023/12/15/the-crown-season-6-part-2-viola-prettejohn-replaces-verity-russell-young-elizabeth-actress/

On 12/16/2023 at 10:33 AM, Spartan Girl said:

I have to ask: where were Margaret’s kids in all this? You’d think they never existed.

Agreed.  There was a young man sitting next to Margaret at her birthday party, but he was way too young to be her son, and I doubt they would seat her grandson with her table without any other of her  descendants.

 

[Roseanna]

On 12/16/2023 at 5:33 PM, Spartan Girl said:

I have to ask: where were Margaret’s kids in all this? You’d think they never existed.

In the secon season we learned that Margaret was pregnant in the same time as Elizabeth and both had a baby on their laps when the family picture was taken in the end of the last episode.

But there simple can't have too many characters. We never heard Anne or Edwards' kids, either.

[sistermagpie]

11 hours ago, Roseanna said:

All persons are different with other people and in different situations. I don't think that only a private self (or rather one of the private selves) is real. That would mean that a person's work didn't matter, nor its influence.

Sure, but I don't think that would meant that Elizabeth wouldn't feel a specific loss of a person who knew *this* part of her that existed when she was young. She's going to feel every loss--even people she didn't know well, imo--as she gets older. In fact, many people probably really mourned her own passing because she'd always been there in their life and now she was gone. But with Porchy and Margaret and soon her mother gone, there's not many people she has left from her early years, so that part of her life is even more in the past than it was before.

[PRgal]

10 hours ago, Roseanna said:

In the secon season we learned that Margaret was pregnant in the same time as Elizabeth and both had a baby on their laps when the family picture was taken in the end of the last episode.

But there simple can't have too many characters. We never heard Anne or Edwards' kids, either.

We don't see Edward's kids, likely because Louise was under 2 and James didn't even exist in the last episode! 

[Jordan Baker]

This episode felt like it was from one of the early seasons. It was head and shoulders above the other episodes in Season 6. Lesley Manville was amazing, as she is in everything. And I thought Imelda Staunton did a great job too. Just a great episode all around.

[Shermie]

The secondary royals are always so much more interesting (and fun!) because they have more freedom. This was a great episode. Watching the stroke and post-stroke scenes was difficult, since I’m watching a close relative going through this exact process. They really captured it.

As much as teenage Elizabeth looked like Claire Foy, I thought the two actresses playing the princesses should have switched roles. Margaret was the prettier one and Elizabeth the more ordinary attractive one. (Which means that yes, I think Claire Foy was too pretty to play Elizabeth, as good as she was in the role.)

I really dislike the look of the Queen Mother; this actress is too thin and her hair is too messy and thin. The QM had the typical church lady perm of the day; they could have given the actress a wig.

And speaking of hair, why oh why does Anne have that horrible updo her whole life? It’s so puffy and round and smooth, like a hairy bowling ball on her head. I know Anne was never about glamour or looks, but you’d think she’d just have a simple bob or something. 

[SoWindsor]

This episode really got to me. I was crying throughout most of it. Lesley Manville was sensational. And as an American, when the lady was reading Margaret accounts from 9/11, I just burst into tears.

A very moving episode. Now did Margaret die in bed while Elizabeth looked back while leaving the room?

Not sure why I was moved to tears by this episode and not Diana's death. Might just be my current mood.

[Roseanna]

6 hours ago, Shermie said:

(Which means that yes, I think Claire Foy was too pretty to play Elizabeth, as good as she was in the role.)

Elizabeth was quite pretty in her 20ies. In the 1950ies she was called the sweetheart of the whole world. 

The only problem was IMO that Claire Foy (born in 1984) was too old for the role in the first season. Stiil, she was the perfect choice because an younger actress could hardly have possessed her ability to communicate her feelings only with her eyes.

[sistermagpie]

15 hours ago, Shermie said:

As much as teenage Elizabeth looked like Claire Foy, I thought the two actresses playing the princesses should have switched roles. Margaret was the prettier one and Elizabeth the more ordinary attractive one. (Which means that yes, I think Claire Foy was too pretty to play Elizabeth, as good as she was in the role.)

 

I thought they communicated that well just with the costuming. Howeve rthe two of seemed genetically-speaking, Margaret's pretty pink dress vs. Elizabeth's soldier boy outfit said Margaret was the pretty one.

[GHScorpiosRule]

10 hours ago, Roseanna said:

The only problem was IMO that Claire Foy (born in 1984) was too old for the role in the first season. Stiil, she was the perfect choice because a younger actress could hardly have possessed her ability to communicate her feelings only with her eyes.

 I disagree. While I love Claire Foy and she was phenomenal as the Queen, I think anyone with talent can express with only eyes and age has nothing to do with it. And I can’t see Vanessa Kirby as Elizabeth. At all. But that’s all subjective any way.

[CeeBeeGee]

11 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Elizabeth was quite pretty in her 20ies. In the 1950ies she was called the sweetheart of the whole world. 

I'm sure I've mentioned this before but yes, she was considered quite a dish in the '50s. Paul McCartney has spoken of it, he said he and all his schoolboy friends had crushes on her. "Look at the heave on Her Majesty!" which makes me giggle like crazy.

[iMonrey]

On 12/15/2023 at 8:36 AM, ombelico said:

The actress they got to play Young Princess Elizabeth has such a striking resemblance to Claire Foy I kept being taken aback and thinking it was her. Amazing casting.

I'll join the chorus - I would have been willing to bet money they somehow used CGI to make Claire Foy look younger. The resemblance was uncanny.

[pasdetrois]

On 12/14/2023 at 11:36 PM, Demian said:

This is probably the best episode of the season.

Agreed. We are back to the Queen and her most enduring family relationship, her sister. They went through so much together as little girls.

Production took the time to tell the story and do it justice, although it was very painful to watch.

Leslie Manville is at the height of her acting prowess. I will watch her in anything.

Quote

I'm sure I've mentioned this before but yes, she was considered quite a dish in the '50s. Paul McCartney has spoken of it, he said he and all his schoolboy friends had crushes on her. "Look at the heave on Her Majesty!" which makes me giggle like crazy.

The sisters had knockout 50s-style bombshell figures when young. Plus huge blue eyes and gorgeous skin and hair.

Edited December 27, 2023 by pasdetrois

[PRgal]

On 12/15/2023 at 10:05 PM, SeanC said:

There was no legal segregation in England, though of course quite a few gathering places were informally segregated since most countries also did not have non-discrimination laws for public gatherings.

This was also a source of tension whenever American troops went abroad to Canada or much of Europe in this time because many white American soldiers expected segregated bars, movie theatres, etc. and attempted to impose those norms on the locals (or black soldiers serving in other Allies' armed forces). 

There was a very famous court case during the war years where a black cricketer from Trinidad successfully sued a London hotel for refusing him accommodations.

There may not have been segregation laws but unofficial ones did exist, at least in Canada.  There's a famous case of a woman who sat in the wrong section of a movie theatre back in the 40s, unaware that the main part of the theatre was for white people.

Now back to the episode:  This has GOT to be my favourite not just of the season, but probably the entire series.  I don't know how much of it was true, other than the fact the princesses DID indeed go out for a night of fun on VE Day.  I'm sure there were things that went on that the King and Queen never knew about, because, well, teenage girls will ALWAYS be teenage girls :) (but the mom in me was wondering about the very underage Margaret and her behaviour....)

[Cheezwiz]

This episode had me tearing up all the way through.

This was a tough watch for anyone who has witnessed a loved one struggle with ill health. I remember seeing the press photos of Margaret post-stroke in the early 2000's and being utterly shocked at her appearance.

While I'm not a fan of Margaret, Leslie Manville knocked it out of the park, as did Imelda Staunton. The depiction of their relationship in Margaret's declining years was extremely moving - the shots of them reading together in bed, and holding hands really got to me.

What a sad period of time that had to have been for the Queen - losing her childhood friend Porchy, her younger sister who was essentially her closest confidante, and then her Mother not long after that, must have been overwhelming.

Uncanny casting of the young Elizabeth (honestly thought they'd brought Claire Foy back) and Margaret (totally looked like a young Vanessa Kirby). Can't say the same about the Queen Mum sadly - they needed a much squatter rounder actress for that part.

The final scene at the palace gate was beautiful.

 

[tennisgurl]

I admit that I have always had a soft spot for Margarete, as hard to deal with as she often has been. She is probably the person that has been with Elizabeth the most in her entire life and is one of the shows most consistent characters, losing her is almost as hard for us as it is for Elizabeth. It really feels like the end of an era as she passes away. 

The callback to the Windors all settling into being either dutiful or dazzling, and Elizabeth being insecure about it, was really nice during the speech Elizabeth gave. 

This was definitely the best episode of the season so far and the first one to really hit me in the gut.  

Those flashbacks were really cute, of course Elizabeth's biggest moment of rebellion is just going out without telling people who she is and dancing with and kissing a guy, anything more and she wouldn't be Elizabeth. 

Edited January 2 by tennisgurl

[Magnumfangirl]

Sad episode, but the idea that the ballroom at the Ritz  was staid and boring on V-E night was ridiculous!

Edited January 10 by Magnumfangirl

[PRgal]

On 1/2/2024 at 11:25 AM, tennisgurl said:

I admit that I have always had a soft spot for Margarete, as hard to deal with as she often has been. She is probably the person that has been with Elizabeth the most in her entire life and is one of the shows most consistent characters, losing her is almost as hard for us as it is for Elizabeth. It really feels like the end of an era as she passes away. 

The callback to the Windors all settling into being either dutiful or dazzling, and Elizabeth being insecure about it, was really nice during the speech Elizabeth gave. 

This was definitely the best episode of the season so far and the first one to really hit me in the gut.  

Those flashbacks were really cute, of course Elizabeth's biggest moment of rebellion is just going out without telling people who she is and dancing with and kissing a guy, anything more and she wouldn't be Elizabeth. 

And the idea that Margaret DIDN'T do any of this and was the "good girl" that night is really un-Margaret!!!  Other than being 15 and drinking, of course.  But hey, teens are teens, right?

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, PRgal said:

And the idea that Margaret DIDN'T do any of this and was the "good girl" that night is really un-Margaret!!!  Other than being 15 and drinking, of course.  But hey, teens are teens, right?

TBF, she did, didn't she? When she found Elizabeth in the basement she joined her dancing etc.

[PRgal]

55 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

TBF, she did, didn't she? When she found Elizabeth in the basement she joined her dancing etc.

True, but not until later.  And she seemed nervous about it at first.