S04.E06: Living+

[TexasGal]

Quote

Ahead of a crucial new product launch on Investor Day, Shiv weighs a business proposal from Matsson, while Kendall and Roman call an impromptu meeting to flip the script on their latest interaction with the tech billionaire. Later, the brothers each try to match Logan’s tempestuous style, with varying results.

Airdate: 04.30.2023

[Penman61]

Why “Doderick Macht Frei”? Who/what is Doderick?

 

[Sailorgirl26]

4 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

Why “Doderick Macht Frei”? Who/what is Doderick?

 

I can't take credit for this, but:

Macht Frei is a reference to “Arbeit macht frei”, a message that appeared on the entrance of Auschwitz and other Nazi concentration camps, meaning “Work makes one free”. Doderick is one of Waystar’s mascots, so the tweet means: “Doderick makes one free” or “Doderick sets one free.” Source.

And in the possible foreshadowing of "Greg taking it all", the park character he was dressed as in his first episode (the one he puked out of the eyeballs) was Doderick.

Edited May 1, 2023 by Sailorgirl26

[DoubleUTeeEff]

The beginning with Logan made me think of Bill O'Reilly.

 

And the presentation where Kendall talks to a video of Logan made me think of the presentation in Jurassic Park when John Hammond was talking to a video of himself. "Hello, John!" "Oh, I've got lines!"

 

[Guest]

If Gerri stays gone…… 

[DoubleUTeeEff]

Gerri, Shiv's godmother Gerri?!

[DoubleUTeeEff]

29 minutes ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

And in the possible foreshadowing of "Greg taking it all", the park character he was dressed as in his first episode (the one he puked out of the eyeballs) was Doderick.

And Doderick is dog! How apropos for Greg in more ways than one.

It could also mean that Greg blows everything up and "sets them all free" that way.

[Athena5217]

I’m surprised no one on the show said using a dead guy to sell “Living Plus” is a bad idea.

[Paws]

The font of Living+ looks exactly like Martha Stewart Living magazine. I wonder if they asked permission  to use it.

 

shiv looked so good this episode, I hope she and Tom get back together for real and learn how to be nice to one another.

[Blakeston]

I hate to say it, but I'm really getting bored by the Shiv/Tom scenes.

It's so repetitive. They flirt, they talk about sex with other people, they hurt each other, and flirt some more. This bizarre dance is getting pretty old for me.

[realityplease]

I don't think "Doderick Macht Frei" had anything to do with Greg, although, yes, Greg dressed up as the Waystar mascot Doderick the dog in his first appearance in an episode.  I think I also saw a quick glimpse of a stand up poster of Doderick at the Waystar building when people entered for the meeting.

Mattson's tweet was snark on the Living+ concept.  "Arbeit Macht Frei" (work makes free) was a sign over the entrance of the Auschwitz death camp. So I think the tweet implies Doderick would be welcoming the elderly into Living+ "camps" that they will no doubt exit upon their death.  As in the death camps. (I don't agree with Cameron Frew's interpretation, cited above.) It was Mattson's dark joke. He took down the tweet.

Ken handled it well, saying he wouldn't "fave it" and apologizing if the tweet offended (even though he wasn't the source of it, Mattson was), explaining that he is European, and somehow praising Mattson anyway & acting the loving son to close things out.  Doing so to much praise & approval. 

Edited May 1, 2023 by realityplease

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, deaja said:

If Gerri stays gone…… 

I was a little surprised to see her at the presentation unless she just decided that Roman can't fire her.  And I can believe it.  One thing I thought of while he was begging her to tell him she believed in him was that I wished she'd ask him if he ever thought his father did anything like this. 

[realityplease]

11 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

I hate to say it, but I'm really getting bored by the Shiv/Tom scenes.

It's so repetitive. They flirt, they talk about sex with other people, they hurt each other, and flirt some more. This bizarre dance is getting pretty old for me.

I agree.  Plus, it's not great that she's bringing Tom in on her dealings with Mattson, even if Tom was just silently sitting while she put Mattson on speaker.  Tom's as much as told her he'll always pick himself & protect his money - over her.  It's why he picked Logan over her in Italy.  It's why he's an opportunist who will always choose, in any situation, whoever gives him safety & money - over her. He's not to be trusted.  He doesn't have her best interests at heart - only his.  A baby won't change that.  

[HC87]

First ep this season I didn't really feel it.....maybe the Bruins OT loss put me in a foul mood before I watched this tonight. 

Just seemed more of the same..... nothing really new or interesting (for me anyway) seemed to transpire on tonight's ep.

[buttersister]

Lukas tweeting the sign from Auschwitz led me to think that he could just fuck right off.

The delivery was spot on, but all of the writing for Kendall here was next level. 

I have no spoilers but I'm getting nervous about Roman getting out of this alive. 

[Penman61]

I know the cliché says “There’s no right way to grieve,” but of the kids, Shiv’s setting aside crying time appointments strikes me as WAY less unhealthy than Roman and Kendall’s weird avoidance and bro-ey “humor” about their loss.

[Artsda]

It's  still only been days since Logan died and they're now doing events in LA. When are they burying the man? Colin is still planning?

Kendall was awesome and handled Mattson's tweet that Shiv seemed in on really great. It hurt Mattson more. Kendall actually got a win and didn't drown himself. 

Shiv this episode came out really stupid to me just the way she kept choosing Mattson's side over her brothers. Being his inside girl and basically letting him use her and then her trying to sabotage what her brothers were doing. She tried to get Roman to do her bidding and Kendall won and then Roman is the one looking bad and she's going to now have sympathy for him looking as he walks out. 

Then on top of it bringing  in Tom who turned against her in the first place for her father.  She just came out stupid to me, I hate Matson before the tweet and now more so, her being on his side is unlikable. 

There was the scene where she's got the appointment then we see her crying Could she no longer pregnant? Could it have been an appointment we didn't see? 

Carl sure turned around fast when Kendall came in after his presentation. 

I don't mind Roman firing Gerri like he did. Or suggestion of firing her. She called him out in front of others scolding him in front of others. He should remind her who is boss and she should show that respect. 

Greg is so opportunist. He tells Tom I'll be here cheering you on then runs after Kendall.

[gorgy]

This was probably Kendall's series character arc climax. Himself on stage with his father looking over his shoulder as he gives some overly confident speech with the proactive jargon Kendall bathes in. Just the right amount of hype and noncommittal puff to come off like a really great company leader. Good for him, I guess. 

Roman was an assclown this episode. He was coming off too sympathetic lately, so we gotta take him down a peg in the viewers eyes. Don't need any of these over-privileged fucks coming off too sympathetic.

Shiv was walking a tight rope this episode in a couple of ways. I could argue (but I'm too tired to) this may have been Sarah Snook's best performance as an actress this season. just a thick and chewy earlobe of a performance to bite into.

 

P.S. I also played the bitey game as a child

 

Edited May 1, 2023 by gorgy

[kittykat]

Oh man I was with Gerri and pulling my hair when Kendall started his presentation but the big twist being that he actually turned it around and nailed it.

I liked how Tom and Shiv finally talked about Italy and Tom admitted that he likes his money and things.  That nugget of truth may even be the first time Shiv truly felt any respect for him.

[realityplease]

Scary. That tech guy using AI to change Logan's actual words, a  "significant boost in earnings," into "double the amount of earnings" just because Greg threatened "Mr. Snippy-Snip."  Sure hope that's not a really, really scary precursor of things to come in the world, but afraid it is.  Makes worrying over a bad edit so minor in comparison to having your actual words changed. 

I agree with almost everything Artsda said - except for the firing of Gerri.  Maybe it will be walked back.  Because Gerri was right - though yes, not respectful.  When Roman demanded respect & she said, "Say it or believe it?" that was true push-back.  Especially when she also told him that he is not his father.  So he fired her.  But she was right that the money will wash them away, that Logan knew that tech was the way to go, & they need to offload.  Waystar needs her institutional knowledge & ability to recognize & see a way out of problems.   But her firing (& that of the movie exec) shows how erratic Roman can be.  He's smart but in trying to placate both Ken and Shiv, and letting his emotions overtake thoughtful control & guiding of matters, he on a downslide.

[nb360]

2 hours ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

And in the possible foreshadowing of "Greg taking it all", the park character he was dressed as in his first episode (the one he puked out of the eyeballs) was Doderick.

I suspect "Greg will take it all" too. That would offer some cosmic justice... (I now need to re-watch the episode with Greg throwing up in the park character costume.)

I was worried about Kendall but I'm glad he got through the presentation without a serious meltdown.

I like Tom when he's separated from Shiv. If they get back together, I hope he can be more assertive.

Edited May 1, 2023 by nb360

[CatWarmer]

Seemed to me like Shiv is starting to make some highly effective but subtle moves to keep the deal on target.  She knows she can't control Kendall; he'll just go crazier with any questioning.  But she got Roman to stay off stage (which might have helped keep Kendell from going further overboard) and possibly got through to him on thinking about his behavior.  She wasn't really giving any any info to Mattson - in fact, she forced him come to her on the plane and effectively told him he wasn't running things yet.  And the reason he took down the tweet was that she stepped out of the room and texted him to dial back.  Otherwise there was a strong possibility of a Twitter war exploding.  With Tom, if nothing else, she got some home truths from him.  I think that even though she technically has no position, she really does wield power.

[Marley]

Kendall and Roman seem really shitty at being CEOs. Roman especially is really pissing me off and is kind of a joke. Roman is where he is because his daddy created the company. He’s not some talented businessman. Him going around firing ppl annoyed me. Kendall seems to know what he’s doing a bit more then Roman.

I don’t know why but I kind of want Tom and Shiv to end up together.

Kendall seems to be extra amped. What new drugs is he on lol.

I’m kind of tired of Mattson.

Love this show.

Kendall did seem to kind of pull it off tho after he calmed down a bit. I think lol.

[thuganomics85]

Wasn't sure if they would find a way to have Logan pop back up from the grave (and get some more Brian Cox awesomeness), but using a past clip of him trying to advertise a product (complete with losing his cool behind the scenes) and inserting him into a presentation is certainly on point for this show, Waystar Roy, and every character involved, heh.  If there is an afterlife, Logan is certainly looking on and probably cussing up a storm.

Well, they actually had me fooled.  Despite the odds, Kendall managed to actually snatch a victory out of the jaws of defeat and gave a good presentation for this Living+ concept.  Now, I'm sure there will end up being a lot more going on and there will be plenty of holes and issues that will prevent this entire idea from every working, but he certainly found a way to look believable in front of the investors and make it a win.  Added bonus of handling Lukas' offensive tweet about it the best way possible and coming off like the bigger man there.  Well done, Kendall (and probably another clip to add to Jeremy Strong's Emmy reel.)  But like with most things about this show, I suspect this victory will be short-lived.  I don't see anyone really having a happy ending here, except maybe some of the supporting characters who survive by watching the damage from afar.

Meanwhile, Roman continues to squander what felt like improvements from the earlier episodes and is basically acting like someone who thinks he is going on a warpath and "getting shit done", but is really just making himself an insecure ass.  Firing that movie executive the way he did would certainly be a headache enough, but firing (or trying too?  Or was he even being serious?) Gerri?  Yeah, buddy, that is probably to be your downfall.  I imagine she is one of the few that has respect from almost everyone in the company and I do not see that going over well at all.  And even if he ended up sending it to his dad, if that stuff about the dick pic last season ever comes to light.... yeah, that would be a bad, bad, bad look for him.

I worry that Shiv really is making a mistake allowing herself to be "Lukas' inside man", even though she probably thinks she's actually playing both sides and holds all the cards, but I'm somehow finding her to be the most relatable out of the Roy siblings right now.  Even her scheduling time to grieve is admittedly unique, but seems healthier than whatever both Kendall and Roman are trying to do.  And I actually enjoy the stuff with her and Tom.  Granted, a lot of it is that I think Sarah Snook and Matthew Macfayden really can convey a lot with just their glances and looks, and really sell the history and twisted relationship between these two characters.  But I actually kind of like that they seem to be more honest with one another now.  Still think their relationship is doomed to always be toxic, but I can see them actually finding a place where they can live with one another.  And for these two?  Maybe that would actually be enough.

Greg is such a weasel.  And I honestly think that means he will somehow come out ahead when this is all said and done.

Guessing Connor (and Willa) were busy touring a few states.  Maybe he's up to 2% now!!

[MBayGal]

2 hours ago, HC87 said:

First ep this season I didn't really feel it.....maybe the Bruins OT loss put me in a foul mood before I watched this tonight. 

Just seemed more of the same..... nothing really new or interesting (for me anyway) seemed to transpire on tonight's ep.

I mostly agree. this was the first episode I can recall when I checked the time to see how much longer it would go on. But I thought the last several minutes, Kendall's presentation, was well done.

Unlike others, I enjoyed Shiv and Tom.  Their relationship is a toxic nightmare, but I enjoy watching it.  I keep wondering when/how he will learn about the baby. I am not sure she will keep it.

[BC4ME]

Wow, after thinking the first part showed that Roman and Kendall especially were careening toward disaster with their unhinged decision-making skills, Kendall actually pulls that shit off in the end. Say what you will about Jeremy Strong's "staying in character" all the time style of acting, but he has me on the edge of my seat in so many scenes. They are all outstanding though.

Love the Tom and Shiv scenes. 

If Greg ends up winning it all, it will seem to me like a total rip off of the the entire series, unless they can show something spectacular that we have not seen out of Greg, and at this late date I can't see that happening. It wouldn't be in character. I can't see them Game of Thronesing this thing on the way out. Not this show.

[millennium]

I felt like I have seen this episode before, bits and pieces of previous episodes pasted together by Mr. Snippy-Snip.   It wasn't very good.   Disappointed there wasn't an editing screw-up that had Logan announcing to the assembled audience "Just like my fucking idiot kids."

Greg is the most pointless and repulsive character on the show.   Unless the writers are hell-bent on leaving a bad taste in the viewers' mouths, I can't see him winning the prize.

[DrSpaceman73]

Shiv is such a bitch to tom. 

She's the one who wanted an open marriage. 

Then she does nothing but give shit to him for pursuing other women after they are separated. 

What she really meant was 'I' want to have an open marriage but you should just be dedicated to me. 

[Lassus]

Pretty sure I did not altogether understand this episode.

[Pestilentia]

Quote

First ep this season I didn't really feel it

Couldn't agree more.

I am tired of Tom and Shiv speaking daggers to one another, tired of Roman's  ridiculous "What Dad wanted/Dad's plan"  obsession and tired of Kendall faking being successful. I don't even know what happened this episode to advance anything other than Mattson screwing around with Shiv's ego by making her think somebody actually values her somehow. It all felt like an episode that didn't know what it was trying to say other than all three of them have brains in chaos.

The whole 'trying to complete the deal immediately after Logan's death' is absurd anyway- I don't even see how a competent board would want them flying all over and determining the direction of multiple lives in that state of mind. Regardless, a death like that leaves one frazzled and with your mind going a thousand directions- most of us don't even remember the week immediately following a parent's death. IMO they should have taken a minimum week long hiatus, left the Old Ones in charge, and at least taken a few breaths and try to get centered a bit.  Roman should have told Mattson to pound sand before they got to the top of Mount Arrogant, not after. At least then if it all falls apart it it wasn't because they rushed in headlong and frazzled.

[tomsmom]

1. Where does Shiv get off being pissed about them not including her? Did she tell them about the blood deliveries? How bout taking that pic to send to him?

2. Does Greg need to be included in everything?? Their mom’s and Connor’s wedding, the retreat, LA.

3. Are they ever going to effing bury Logan? 

[absnow54]

Just now, tomsmom said:

1. Where does Shiv get off being pissed about them not including her? Did she tell them about the blood deliveries? How bout taking that pic to send to him?

I think it's a perfect example of Everyone's an A-hole here. Kendall and Roman are both being shady with their plot to hold onto the company and cut Shiv out of their plans, meanwhile Shiv is holding onto pivotal information that would support Kendall and Roman's "concerns." There are no heroes here.

6 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

And I actually enjoy the stuff with her and Tom.  Granted, a lot of it is that I think Sarah Snook and Matthew Macfayden really can convey a lot with just their glances and looks, and really sell the history and twisted relationship between these two characters.  But I actually kind of like that they seem to be more honest with one another now.  Still think their relationship is doomed to always be toxic, but I can see them actually finding a place where they can live with one another.  And for these two?  Maybe that would actually be enough.

I agree. It's an interesting shift in their dynamic. Throughout the series, Tom has been willing to kiss any ass that was in power, until it was decided that Shiv would be Logan's successor. Now he actually seems to respect her as a player. Also, when they were discussing that every move they make is for their own self interest, I couldn't help but think of the season 2 finale when Shiv begged Logan to spare Tom. I'm sure they'll betray one another before series end, but their story was the only one holding my attention this episode.

I do feel like they killed off Logan too early this season. Or, at least, the aftermath of Logan's death isn't what I expected. I agree with a past poster. They haven't even buried him yet! I would have preferred the kids versus Logan's estate to all this Mattson stuff. 

[Lassus]

25 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

They haven't even buried him yet!

They definitely should have off-camera, it's going to kind of eat up an episode in a way that's going to be sort of a waste IMO.  We already got and are getting the brilliantly acted varying grief stages; a funeral seems kind of redundant at this point.

[Chicago Redshirt]

Add me into the group of folks who thought this episode was a swing and a miss.

I get that the CE-bros still want to tank the deal, but why? (Other than, because if they don't, we would have to fast-forward to the last episode)

Is it just me, or is Living+ a terrible idea inherently, or is it just a bad pitch by Kendall? I don't get how it has anything to do with trying to leave a presence when you're gone or whatever. I think maybe a more interesting direction might have been dealing with Logan and his social media presence. Does he have a social media presence? I would think so.

Wasn't part of the problem with Waystar that it didn't get social media? Why wouldn't the Matsson deal have already factored in this? Why wouldn't the investors be interested in what Matsson might have had to say about this new idea?

And is the plan by the CE-bros to pump up the price so high that Matsson can't afford it also ridiculous on its face? No matter how good Living+ might be, it doesn't seem like it would be a smart bet for it to double the earnings of an already gigantic company. And someone should tell Kendall that he's probably opening himself personally and the company to shareholder lawsuits for blatantly juicing the numbers.

It feels like they should  have name-dropped this Living thing before if we're to buy that it is a plausible vehicle to pin all the hopes for tanking the deal. Did they? 

It seemed like they want Matsson to go a little more off the edge. The Doderick joke seems an obvious misstep. If he wants to tank the tanking of the deal, there are probably a half-dozen things he could have said that didn't involve the Holocaust and that the average one of his followers would get. Or even the straightforward "Living+ seems like a dumb idea." Maybe he is crazy enough to repeatedly send someone a half-liter of his frozen blood and fess up about having done that for no real reason.

Also, as self-involved as Roman might be, he has to realize firing two high-level female executives within hours of each other looks and is terrible, right?

[Jordan Baker]

1 hour ago, Lassus said:

Pretty sure I did not altogether understand this episode.

I was confused or misinterpreted several scenes.

For example, I thought Shiv's grieving room was an excuse she gave to Tom and Greg and that she was using it for some other purpose.  And I thought there was a chance that Kendall was going into the rough surf to (possibly) kill himself. It was only after I read some comments on Twitter that I realized many people saw it as a rebirth. And when the camera panned in on Tom with this hand on Shiv's waist (in the crying office), I thought he figured out that she was pregnant. I seem to have been 0/3.

On the bright side, I learned a new word--interregnum. Thanks, Gerri.

Maybe it's because I live in FL, but the whole Living+ thing reminded me of The Villages, where Tom would have lots of fellow ATN citizens.

[TV Diva Queen]

This episode was too "in the weeds" for me.  I honestly don't know who's being honest and who's working behind each other's backs.  Its too much - did I miss somewhere that they were developing Living+ and how in the heck is it supposed to make you live longer.  gurl please.

[Lassus]

18 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Is it just me, or is Living+ a terrible idea inherently, or is it just a bad pitch by Kendall? I don't get how it has anything to do with trying to leave a presence when you're gone or whatever. I think maybe a more interesting direction might have been dealing with Logan and his social media presence. Does he have a social media presence? I would think so.

I think it's just a pretty logical - if hyperbolic and fantastical for the purpose of fiction - pitch.  "You love Waystar for a bunch of other shit, now we will open up our own living spaces."  The reference to The Villages above is apt IMO.

Honestly, it sounded pretty realistic.  HOW MANY motels and condos does Disney run down there?

Edited May 1, 2023 by Lassus

[absnow54]

5 minutes ago, Jordan Baker said:

And I thought there was a chance that Kendall was going into the rough surf to (possibly) kill himself

After Logan's shocking death (I mean we all knew he was going to die, but the story beat it happened on was shocking to me) I 100% thought Kendall was going to drown.

6 minutes ago, Jordan Baker said:

And when the camera panned in on Tom with this hand on Shiv's waist (in the crying office), I thought he figured out that she was pregnant.

I thought the same thing. There was a very deliberate shot of Tom touching Shiv's waist. Has there been confirmation that he doesn't know she's pregnant? I think he already knows.

[Artemis9]

They all seem to have lost their center after the death of their father... incredibly, it was Kendall who came on top in this episode. Roman just threw his weight around, unsure of himself, he felt firing two women executives can make him feel powerful, which it didn't.  Shiv feeling set aside by his brothers, keeps Mattson on her other ear, no loyalties except to save herself. She is, however, saving Tom, first from her father, a few seasons back, and this time with Mattson, and has she forgiven Tom's betrayal saying he has not even touched her surface and she saying she has been through worse. Is this episode just a one-time win moment by Kendall? When is Shiv ever going to tell Tom she is pregnant? Are we going through the denouement of the story now with these last episodes? What else is there to say?...

Edited May 1, 2023 by Artemis9

[pasdetrois]

I thought Kendall displayed increasing levels of mania, with his rapidly evolving ideas and hyper streams of patter. I also laughed (darkly) at the description of retirement communities' cynical design to bleed wallets dry, because it's true.

I thought Shiv was weeping because her brothers had cut her out of the strategy decisions. But the scheduled-grief makes more sense for tough-as-nails Shiv.

And Roman firing skilled managers right and left just because they pissed him off. It's hilarious that Jeri and Karl just barreled on despite being fired and ugly confrontations with the co-CEOs. There they doggedly sat in the nosebleed seats.

 

Edited May 1, 2023 by pasdetrois

[cardigirl]

As much as I would like to believe that Shiv is allowing herself to soften toward Tom, I'm wondering if that isn't a part of her strategy. Bring him close to destroy him more completely.

Shiv is up to something ...

 

[chaifan]

I would love to see the actual scripts for his show.  Do writers actually write out all that word salad that Roman and Kendall keep spewing at each other, or is there just a vague direction to ad lib this type of stuff using as many BS business catch phrases as possible?  I don't think there was a single, coherent complete sentence uttered by either one of them this whole episode.  Same with Mattson on the plane - he gets out three words, interrupts himself, starts another sentence, interrupts himself, etc.  I have to be honest, I hate this type of dialog.  These are educated people (I'm purposely not using the word "smart"), they should be able to string two sentences together.  It hurts my ears.  (Good god, how I miss The West Wing.) 

I completely get Shiv's motivation.  She has -0- power at ATN, and knows it will stay that way and the "CE-Bros" (love that term!  Thank you @Chicago Redshirt) will constantly be doing deals behind her back.  She wants the sale to go through, it's in her best interest.  Now, why in the world she wants to sink her $10 billion into forming a new a company with her brothers at this point is beyond me.  But I loved her manipulating Roman to doubt Ken's abilities to run ATN. 

I loved Geri's takedown of Roman, and I totally expected him to be aroused by it, not to turn around and try to fire her.  Yes, technically it was inappropriate given that he is now her boss.  But they have decades of history of him being the child in that relationship, so it made sense to me.  And, she was right. 

[Lassus]

2 minutes ago, aghst said:

and gets Greg to force the video editor to produce a deep fake of Logan saying they can double profits, a fantasy number that nobody, not Roman, not Shiv, not Karl, not Tom, not Greg believes in.

I know!  How unlike Elon Musk with Twitter/Tesla or Neumann with WeWork or Holmes with Theranos or countless series B funding, or........

This is the LEAST unbelievable part of this episode.

[aghst]

3 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

As much as I would like to believe that Shiv is allowing herself to soften toward Tom, I'm wondering if that isn't a part of her strategy. Bring him close to destroy him more completely.

Shiv is up to something ...

 

That would certainly be an interesting development.

Because this episode wasn’t exactly a ringing endorsement of strong women.

At first it starts out well, Shiv parrying with Lukas, giving as well as she gets, with a man of great accomplishment, yet she was an equal to him.

Then she calls out Kendall and Roman’s bullshit, the co-CEOs, sees that they want to tank the deal.  

No man is going to get over on her.

Then the very next scene is her in the grief room and her crumbling into Tom’s arms.  On the one hand, it’s a moving scene of vulnerability, given her pregnancy and the fact that she hasn’t told anyone, not even Tom.

But on the other hand, are the writers saying a good strong man is the cure for all of a woman’s ills, even a strong woman who can stare down powerful and privileged white men?

So either Shiv ends up with Tom, building a family or she decides Tom isn’t worthy and raises their child herself, while getting what she wants as far as control of and spoils from Waystar.

That’s not to say she can’t be strong if she finds Tom worthy and wants a family with Tom, who called her on her hypocrisy when she looked down at him for wanting nice things like his watches and stuff.  She mockingly said she would follow you Tom Wamsgans for love.

But we know she wasn’t going to be dating someone from the janitorial staff at Waystar, rather it would be a rising young executive.  So love for these filthy rich people would always be in the context of money.

[BC4ME]

Despite the fact that it's basically impossible to actually accomplish the promised goals in Living +, the idea itself has massive appeal to the unbridled capitalism minded people who think money alone can/should make them immortal. Part of Logan could never accept that he was going to die at some point. I've known people who thought their money could insulate them from the plights of the mere mortals below them. And that includes dying. 

In a way, Living + is the perfect pitch to those people Waystar wants to attract. 

[BlackberryJam]

Strangely, I found the most disturbing part of the episode Mattson walking across the tarmac barefoot to get to Shiv's plane. 

I do think in a different show, this would be a sexual relationship, but somehow Snook and Skarsgard make it the opposite of sexy flirting. 

[aghst]

3 minutes ago, Lassus said:

I know!  How unlike Elon Musk with Twitter/Tesla or Neumann with WeWork or Holmes with Theranos or countless series B funding, or........

This is the LEAST unbelievable part of this episode.

The other thing is, Roman had a deep fake video of Logan belittling his micro dick on his phone which he kept playing over and over.

It is plausibly something Logan would say but it’s likely a fake.

Does Roman play it because he misses his dad, still grieving in a perverse way?  Or is it something else?

Because when he was having phone sex with Gerri, she would belittle him.  Also Kendall or Shiv has joked about how Roman would get off on being sexually shamed or belittled.

Boy needs therapy.

[Lassus]

2 minutes ago, aghst said:

Boy needs therapy.

This is basically what I took as the ultimate answer to the microdick video.

[BC4ME]

I have to keep remembering that each episode this last season represents one day. So Shiv's pregnancy is never going to become obvious physically during these four more days left in the season. It will be entirely up to Shiv to reveal it to whomever she wants, or not. That power is something she will have for the rest of the show. 

[BeckyThatcher]

It may just be a win for the day, but seeing Kendall floating face up with a fleeting smile as opposed to floating face down in Italy, brought tears to my eyes.

Kendall writing the number 1 in the sand to declare he is the “number one boy” while Roman plays and replays his father’s altered words was poignant and beautifully edited.